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(Orlando Sentinel)   In an surprising act of kindness, a city government has done the "rational" thing and agreed to let an autistic boy keep his therapy chickens. City council members were unsure of the action, saying they've never done anything "rational" before   (thesent.nl ) divider line
    More: Followup, De Bary, local governments, Florida Area, city councils, Longwood, therapy  
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2132 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2013 at 12:58 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



68 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-11 12:21:17 PM  
Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.

That's like being proud of someone for surrendering to the police after six officers draw their weapons on him.
 
2013-12-11 12:37:39 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.

That's like being proud of someone for surrendering to the police after six officers draw their weapons on him.


I'm not quite sure how the city's solicitor let this happen.  It's not every day you get to argue in federal court and bill hundreds of hours to the taxpayers over an issue that is utterly stupid.  So there's a lot more to this story than they're telling us.
 
2013-12-11 12:56:06 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: I'm not quite sure how the city's solicitor let this happen.  It's not every day you get to argue in federal court and bill hundreds of hours to the taxpayers over an issue that is utterly stupid.  So there's a lot more to this story than they're telling us.


I'm betting (hoping?) they got caught off guard when the internet outrage hit. This isn't the first time the interwebz have helped stop Floridian insanity.
 
2013-12-11 12:58:46 PM  
...therapy chickens?
 
2013-12-11 12:59:28 PM  
More chickens for the farking.
 
2013-12-11 01:00:10 PM  
I liked my headline about the chickens getting pulled out of the fryer better.
 
2013-12-11 01:01:12 PM  

Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?


Until they peck the kid's eyes out.
 
2013-12-11 01:02:08 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.


I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.
 
2013-12-11 01:04:49 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.

That's like being proud of someone for surrendering to the police after six officers draw their weapons on him.


True, but "progress" is a slippery, incremental thing. It's like an Operation Paperclip based on compassion, instead of a big pile of dead slaves.

Why I pseudo-Godwinned a post about some damaged kid's pets is beyond me.
 
2013-12-11 01:06:53 PM  

Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.


In my kid's "gifted" class, there are a few kids clearly on the spectrum, and I don't mean Reading Rainbow. Something as predictably repetitive as a chicken's progress through a yard with some tasty bugs would probably have the desired settling effect in the absence of, say, paint drying.
 
2013-12-11 01:07:58 PM  

Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?


assets2.ignimgs.com

...not like this, I assume.

/though it's certainly therapeutic
//hot like Fire Rod-roasted cucco
 
2013-12-11 01:08:04 PM  
and they were delicious
 
2013-12-11 01:08:11 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.

That's like being proud of someone for surrendering to the police after six officers draw their weapons on him.


Sometimes that's the best outcome.
 
2013-12-11 01:09:47 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.

That's like being proud of someone for surrendering to the police after six officers draw their weapons on him.


In NYC, that's the safest place to be standing.
 
2013-12-11 01:09:48 PM  

Peki: Marcus Aurelius: I'm not quite sure how the city's solicitor let this happen.  It's not every day you get to argue in federal court and bill hundreds of hours to the taxpayers over an issue that is utterly stupid.  So there's a lot more to this story than they're telling us.

I'm betting (hoping?) they got caught off guard when the internet outrage hit. This isn't the first time the interwebz have helped stop Floridian insanity.


the attitude of the fark thread seemed more that the parents were wrong and the city council should have stood firm. apparently the rest of the internet disagreed?
 
2013-12-11 01:10:34 PM  
Rational = the arguments for removing the chickens.
Rational = avoiding a lawsuit.

Irrational might have been the spark of compassionate forethought. Rational is not a default good. Neither is irrational is a default bad, we just made it that way out of fear.
 
2013-12-11 01:16:24 PM  
In this one instance it's probably not a problem, but on a larger scale I could easily see this becoming a problem in suburban/urban areas. The sanitation issues, the noise, having them get loose and waned around the neighborhood and interacting with the normal children... Nothing against autistic kids, but they really should be kept out in the country.
 
2013-12-11 01:20:38 PM  

Treygreen13: I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.


Any animal can be therapeutic.

It's not really so much what the animal does that matters as how the person being therapified responds to the animal. Most people respond better to sympathetic creatures like dogs, sure, but if this kid responds to chickens... hey, it works. That's what matters.
 
2013-12-11 01:21:42 PM  
In parts of Florida, like HIgh Springs, and Key West, chickens are allowed to roam free. And seldom, if ever cause problems. People, roaming free, have a tendency to cause many, many, more problems. Even when penned up, they are always looking for trouble.
 
2013-12-11 01:22:40 PM  
The rapified?

mamashavendotcom.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-11 01:23:54 PM  

Valiente: Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.

In my kid's "gifted" class, there are a few kids clearly on the spectrum, and I don't mean Reading Rainbow. Something as predictably repetitive as a chicken's progress through a yard with some tasty bugs would probably have the desired settling effect in the absence of, say, paint drying.


Im assuming its a tactile thing instead of a observational.  Rubbing soft chicken feathers might be effective for this kid when a soft blanket or other object had no effect.  We use a soft blanket for our older boy, thank god we dont have to take care of a chicken.  Although fresh eggs would be nice.....
 
2013-12-11 01:24:55 PM  
You fools who live in city limits and housing developments with your fancy code enforcement and HOAs.
 
2013-12-11 01:25:36 PM  

Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.


i don't know about that.  when i had them, i watched them more than  i watched t.v.

maybe i have teh autistic

*sidenote but chicken related: am i wrong for not wanting to eat eggs from hens that have a rooster amongst them actively humping away?
 
2013-12-11 01:26:38 PM  

inner ted: am i wrong for not wanting to eat eggs from hens that have a rooster amongst them actively humping away?


Well you're not exactly weird for not wanting to eat eggs that could be fertilized.
 
2013-12-11 01:30:25 PM  
FTFA:  Three-year-old J.J. Hart is an autistic boy who would hardly speak and often threw temper tantrums nearly two years ago.

So in other words, he acted like any other kid his age?

Can you even reasonably diagnose autism at that age?

Not trolling.  Really want to know.
 
2013-12-11 01:30:37 PM  

tlchwi02: Peki: Marcus Aurelius: I'm not quite sure how the city's solicitor let this happen.  It's not every day you get to argue in federal court and bill hundreds of hours to the taxpayers over an issue that is utterly stupid.  So there's a lot more to this story than they're telling us.

I'm betting (hoping?) they got caught off guard when the internet outrage hit. This isn't the first time the interwebz have helped stop Floridian insanity.

the attitude of the fark thread seemed more that the parents were wrong and the city council should have stood firm. apparently the rest of the internet disagreed?


I'm going with:

Pocket Ninja: Yes, they did the rational thing. After the father threatened to sue them in Federal court.


Did not read the article, but did the dad play the ADA card?
 
2013-12-11 01:31:27 PM  
How could you lose with a lawyer named Mark Nation?
 
2013-12-11 01:32:41 PM  
Shoulda set 'em free.
michaelhendrick.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-11 01:35:24 PM  
I guess changing a stupid opinion after a barrage of public outcry over the stupidity is better than not changing a stupid opinion, but still not as good as never having had it in the first place.
 
2013-12-11 01:39:42 PM  
Good.   the neighbors in question ought to realize putting up with chickens is likely going to be less trouble than an out of control autistic kid.
 
2013-12-11 01:39:52 PM  
i181.photobucket.com

Oh cock
 
2013-12-11 01:40:14 PM  
...keep farking that chicken
 
2013-12-11 01:44:03 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: Did not read the article, but did the dad play the ADA card?


Nation said he threatened to file a federal lawsuit against the city, saying the removal of the boy's chickens would violate the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Federal Fair Housing Act.

Federal Fair Housing Act? Since when are chickens a protected group?

orclover: Im assuming its a tactile thing instead of a observational. Rubbing soft chicken feathers might be effective for this kid when a soft blanket or other object had no effect. We use a soft blanket for our older boy, thank god we dont have to take care of a chicken. Although fresh eggs would be nice.....


Temple Gradin, FTW. Saw the HBO movie, and though it was a hagiography near the end, thought it was a pretty good insight on how austitic people use tactile.
 
2013-12-11 01:44:20 PM  
www.haileyswishplaygrounds.com
He's going to be popular at school.
 
2013-12-11 01:49:54 PM  
So the local government is forced to back down on a valid concern due to a threat of an an expensive, meaningless lawsuit.

Truly a vvictoryfor victory for snowflakes everywhere.
 
2013-12-11 01:52:42 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com
...Crazy Chicken World...
 
2013-12-11 01:55:59 PM  
It seems like everytime anything happens to someone that they don't like, they pull some sort of sympathy card. It seems like every person you taze screams they have some medical condition, every person you ban from Wal-Mart is disabled. Or here, some hipster parents wanted fresh eggs in a resdential neighborhood got some chickens, and then when the council changed their mind on the new rule they decided to say their "autistic" son liked them. Why?

Cause no one wants to hear about some yuppies complaining that their chickens are taken away. But if the chickens are a "therapy animal" for their child, (as perscribed by a quack doctor they shopped around for) that amps up the sympathy meter, and allows them to get the internet mommies with precious "autistic" kids up in arms, and to take to their keyboards and deploy the 101 st mommy keyboard division.

I remember when the autistic kids were clearly disabled. Now your kid doesn't run up to strangers and start babbling to them, they are autistic. They like a schedule and only like certain foods? That is called being a kid.
 
2013-12-11 01:59:02 PM  

Betep: [www.haileyswishplaygrounds.com image 800x531]
He's going to be popular at school.


unimpressed:

www.craveonline.com
 
2013-12-11 02:00:33 PM  
files.backyardchickens.com

Florida is full of Axis sympathizers.
 
2013-12-11 02:14:10 PM  
I didn't disagree with their original decision and I felt the parents had made poor choices here. I'm certainly glad the kid is going to get to keep his chickens though, this whole mess was never his fault. Hopefully the exemption thing will last, it would only be worse if they had to go through this down the road again. =\
 
2013-12-11 02:16:39 PM  
You must respect Debary's authoritah!!
 
2013-12-11 02:18:36 PM  
static2.wikia.nocookie.net


StrikitRich: You must respect Debary's authoritah!!


/damn hotlink
 
2013-12-11 02:31:04 PM  
The parents totally pulled the disability card.

They originally had chickens and a rooster but the neighbors complained because of the rooster.

The chickens were bought not as therapy chickens to provide free range eggs to their snowflake.

News at 11, all kids chase chickens.

The parents are douches.
 
2013-12-11 02:32:57 PM  

Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.


I'm guessing you're not Republican.
 
2013-12-11 02:40:25 PM  
The city can bite my shiny assburgers.

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2013-12-11 02:41:40 PM  

InitialCommentGuy: So the local government is forced to back down on a valid concern due to a threat of an an expensive, meaningless lawsuit.

Truly a vvictoryfor victory for snowflakes everywhere.


And what valid concern is there by constituents raising a small amount of chickens in accordance with the law (no roosters, clean pens, fenced, etc.)?
 
2013-12-11 02:52:16 PM  
Get him a bucket of extra crispy to lug around.
 
2013-12-11 02:54:08 PM  

joness0154: InitialCommentGuy: So the local government is forced to back down on a valid concern due to a threat of an an expensive, meaningless lawsuit.

Truly a vvictoryfor victory for snowflakes everywhere.

And what valid concern is there by constituents raising a small amount of chickens in accordance with the law (no roosters, clean pens, fenced, etc.)?


When people think about a neighbor having chickens, they imagine living next to a commercial chicken farm. It's as logical as imagining living next to a puppy mill when your neighbor mentions wanting a dog.
 
2013-12-11 03:14:24 PM  

Diogenes: Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.

I'm guessing you're not Republican.


Why?
 
2013-12-11 03:15:05 PM  

joness0154: InitialCommentGuy: So the local government is forced to back down on a valid concern due to a threat of an an expensive, meaningless lawsuit.

Truly a vvictoryfor victory for snowflakes everywhere.

And what valid concern is there by constituents raising a small amount of chickens in accordance with the law (no roosters, clean pens, fenced, etc.)?


IIRC, they have a rooster. The "therapy chickens" thing was a bullshiat excuse to keep their breeding flock.
 
2013-12-11 03:17:09 PM  

Pick: People, roaming free, have a tendency to cause many, many, more problems


Like stealing chickens.
 
2013-12-11 03:23:45 PM  

Treygreen13: Diogenes: Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.

I'm guessing you're not Republican.

Why?


You don't find chickens therapeutic (ie - "not farkable").
 
2013-12-11 03:25:54 PM  

Diogenes: Treygreen13: Diogenes: Treygreen13: The My Little Pony Killer: Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?

Until they peck the kid's eyes out.

I mean, I'm happy for the kid that he gets to keep his pets, but I've been around chickens and I wouldn't say they were a particularly... uh... therapeutic animal.

I'm guessing you're not Republican.

Why?

You don't find chickens therapeutic (ie - "not farkable").


Well now that you're all stretched, time to go for a run!
 
2013-12-11 03:49:56 PM  
Good, but no roosters allowed. It doesn't matter whether they've got them for "therapy" or for some fresh eggs, there's no reason not to allow this. It's a couple steps below those horrible places that don't allow you to grow vegetables in your front yard.
 
2013-12-11 03:55:03 PM  
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:  Nothing against autistic kids, but they really should be kept out in the country.

I see you've been reading my newsletter about my proposal to house all autistic children on farms until such time as they can be harvested for their organs and meat.
 
2013-12-11 04:06:43 PM  

Ghastly: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:  Nothing against autistic kids, but they really should be kept out in the country.

I see you've been reading my newsletter about my proposal to house all autistic children on farms until such time as they can be harvested for their organs and meat.


Or in special camps, especially the kind where we can do "scientific" research on them.
 
2013-12-11 04:20:31 PM  

kitsuneymg: joness0154: InitialCommentGuy: So the local government is forced to back down on a valid concern due to a threat of an an expensive, meaningless lawsuit.

Truly a vvictoryfor victory for snowflakes everywhere.

And what valid concern is there by constituents raising a small amount of chickens in accordance with the law (no roosters, clean pens, fenced, etc.)?

IIRC, they have a rooster. The "therapy chickens" thing was a bullshiat excuse to keep their breeding flock.


I think the article said "hens"
 
2013-12-11 04:24:44 PM  

GDubDub: FTFA:  Three-year-old J.J. Hart is an autistic boy who would hardly speak and often threw temper tantrums nearly two years ago.

So in other words, he acted like any other kid his age?

Can you even reasonably diagnose autism at that age?

Not trolling.  Really want to know.


If we had known the signs, we could have spotted it at 12 months.

My son is relatively mild (on a good day), but was diagnosed at 15 months. He was not pointing, not talking at all, and showed several repetitive behaviors. He also did not make eye contact, did not respond to his own name, and took much longer to process muscle control, such as crawling.

If we thought chickens would help, we would have tried some.
 
2013-12-11 04:35:34 PM  

Treygreen13: Well now that you're all stretched, time to go for a run!


Everyone's a critic.
 
2013-12-11 04:58:50 PM  

Low Budget Dave: If we thought chickens would help, we would have tried some.


With autism if we had thought elephants and porcupines would have helped, we would have bought 3 of each.
 
2013-12-11 05:18:01 PM  

Peki: Ghastly: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:  Nothing against autistic kids, but they really should be kept out in the country.

I see you've been reading my newsletter about my proposal to house all autistic children on farms until such time as they can be harvested for their organs and meat.

Or in special camps, especially the kind where we can do "scientific" research on them.


Woah! Woah! Woah! I never said anything about camps. I'm not a nazi you know.
 
2013-12-11 06:27:56 PM  

Treygreen13: ...therapy chickens?


They'll love my therapy mosquitoes. I demand a right to have them. Even if they do sometimes get away and give malaria to the neighbors. It's my right after all.
 
2013-12-11 06:55:38 PM  
I really don't understand the objections.  We're talking about chickens in a yard, not in a small apartment.  They're no messier than dogs, no less sanitary than dogs, and certainly not as loud as some dogs.

My city allows up to 6 chickens in a backyard chicken coop with a permit.  I haven't heard of any complaints, and I believe only about a hundred permits have been issued.  Most people, myself included, aren't really interested in keeping chickens, so it never builds up to so many chickens that there's a nuisance.  It wouldn't bother me in the least if my next door neighbor had chickens, and this is an older part of the city, we've got pretty small lots.
 
2013-12-11 07:30:40 PM  

Ghastly: Peki: Ghastly: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:  Nothing against autistic kids, but they really should be kept out in the country.

I see you've been reading my newsletter about my proposal to house all autistic children on farms until such time as they can be harvested for their organs and meat.

Or in special camps, especially the kind where we can do "scientific" research on them.

Woah! Woah! Woah! I never said anything about camps. I'm not a nazi you know.


I just now realized you're the Ghastly mentioned by Clay in "Sexy Losers", "The Thin H Line" and so on.

I bet we have a Venn diagram of friends and associates. You might even know some of my Hamilton pals.

Woo...I just shivered a bit, right there. Like a therapy chicken pecked at my headstone.
 
2013-12-11 08:56:12 PM  
therapy chickens?

Kill that kid, he's too retarded to live.
 
2013-12-11 09:13:36 PM  

GDubDub: FTFA:  Three-year-old J.J. Hart is an autistic boy who would hardly speak and often threw temper tantrums nearly two years ago.

So in other words, he acted like any other kid his age?

Can you even reasonably diagnose autism at that age?

Not trolling.  Really want to know.


Yes, there are signs.

A baby can interact socially with the people around it, even if the communication isn't through words. They will look you in the eye, follow action in others' conversation, respond to being addressed, and so on.  After a year, a baby should at the least be babbling.

I also get the feeling that there may be something wrong with the kid's sensory input, which often goes hand in hand with autism. A sensory input disorder is one where your brain can't filter input, and too much goes through. Basically, if he's screaming nonstop at a year old, maybe it's because he can't stop feeling his clothes on his skin. That's my armchair analysis.

link for other stuffs:http://www.helpguide.org/mental/autism_signs_symptoms.htm
 
2013-12-11 11:57:33 PM  
 
2013-12-12 02:51:27 AM  

Low Budget Dave: GDubDub: FTFA:  Three-year-old J.J. Hart is an autistic boy who would hardly speak and often threw temper tantrums nearly two years ago.

So in other words, he acted like any other kid his age?

Can you even reasonably diagnose autism at that age?

Not trolling.  Really want to know.

If we had known the signs, we could have spotted it at 12 months.

My son is relatively mild (on a good day), but was diagnosed at 15 months. He was not pointing, not talking at all, and showed several repetitive behaviors. He also did not make eye contact, did not respond to his own name, and took much longer to process muscle control, such as crawling.

If we thought chickens would help, we would have tried some.


It's difficult to diagnose young, and some kids of course are misdiagnosed. However all research has shown that the earlier there's intervention the better the outcome is, which is why it's not a bad idea to err on the side of caution if there are specific symptoms. My cousin's children were caught relatively early because my mother is trained to identify autistic symptoms (teacher, background in behavioral psych. advanced degrees, and worked with some autistic kids in the programs she did later in teaching at her district). I have a background in clinical psych. and did a research paper while in school on autism that dealt with early diagnosis. Even so, my mother waited for me to say something to her to confirm her suspicions. She talked to my cousin's mom and they relayed the info to her and she had her docs involved immediately. Both of her sons are severely autistic though, and will never be able to function in society. They will never be able to care for themselves, it's just not going to happen. One is completely non-verbal and the other isn't but their ability to interact meaningfully with the world in communicating their needs is severely incapacitated. Her third child was diagnosed early because of the other two have a diagnosis. They went full out with him, and his autism is MUCH less severe. He will be able to be a functional member of society, though his autism does make some things much harder.

There's absolutely no way to tell how much earlier intervention worked with the third. My cousin believes it made all the difference. However, she also believes vaccines can cause autism. I have tremendous empathy for her even though I do not agree with her not vaxxing the third child, because jesus if you saw what they go through...I couldn't do it. I really couldn't. I couldn't do it with ONE kid. She does it with three disabled kids.

Anyhoo the symptoms are often missed early because they're so subtle. It's often caught around the same age that kids get a big round of vaccines (thus the bad association coupled with an asshat UK doc who lied about his 'research') so it's understandable some parents make the association. Around the same age that toddlers start to become more verbal, many autistic spectrums become highly visible because the autistic toddler doesn't engage in it, and some other behaviors become much worse as they're being pushed to be like other toddlers. They may never have liked being touched, but now as they're being pushed more for such, they react even worse and are intensely frustrated at not being able to communicate, etc.

There's a lot of language disabilities that also become visable at this time, so parents shouldn't be paranoid that it's going to be autism. Generally what problems arise in this time for most kids are very mild and no biggie.

You can get lists of what to look for in infants, best to go with something by actual doctors and researchers with a credible institution. Poor eye tracking is much more likely to be a problem with the eyes, it's a combination of things.

And FWIW, while I never wanted children...it's stuff like this that makes me soooo glad I didn't have kids. No offense, it's just that dealing with kids period is so difficult, parents with disabled kids are goddamned saints who go through so much more than ANYONE else realizes. I don't think I could live up to that.
 
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