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(BBC)   Scientists conclude that an ancient lake on Mars may have at one time supported life. Then again, they said the same thing about the East River   (bbc.co.uk) divider line 46
    More: Spiffy, Bottom of the Ocean, Earth, ancient lakes, chemical analysis, habitability, East River, erosion, argon  
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2150 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Dec 2013 at 10:05 AM (44 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-11 10:12:18 AM  
mars.jpl.nasa.gov

/old news?
 
2013-12-11 10:13:38 AM  
green with zero comments? Or have the ignore features finally won?

Either way... Go Curiosity, go!

(Am I the only one that wishes it was equipped with a dust brush to go clean the solar panels on the other two rovers?)
 
2013-12-11 10:14:26 AM  
Doubleplusgood subby!
 
2013-12-11 10:19:43 AM  
Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.  Just looking at how life of that sort can live on THIS planet, in what we consider to be extreme conditions, is evident proof of that.

As long as there is liquid water and some sort of energy source, bacteria will thrive there.

The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.
 
2013-12-11 10:21:56 AM  

durbnpoisn: Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.


cdn.shopify.com
 
2013-12-11 10:31:48 AM  
Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.
 
2013-12-11 10:32:23 AM  

skippysteak: green with zero comments? Or have the ignore features finally won?


Or as often happens, subby is a mod that approved his own submission, meanwhile you got submissions that can have 20 or more comments and not get green lit.
 
2013-12-11 10:35:29 AM  
The East River did have life. Well, formerly living things, floating downstream, usually with extra holes in them.
 
2013-12-11 10:38:35 AM  

skippysteak: green with zero comments? Or have the ignore features finally won?

Either way... Go Curiosity, go!

(Am I the only one that wishes it was equipped with a dust brush to go clean the solar panels on the other two rovers?)


It actually is equipped with a dust brush, but it's not anywhere near the other rovers.
 
2013-12-11 10:39:36 AM  

StopLurkListen: durbnpoisn: Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.

[cdn.shopify.com image 300x300]


I'm afraid I don't have the reliable source on hand.  But examination of rocks picked up by the Mars rovers, showed signs of the chemical residues of bacteria.

In any case, there is no shortage of evidence to back my secondary statement, that life of bacterial grade can and does exist pretty much anywhere where there is water and a source of energy.
 
2013-12-11 10:47:42 AM  
I suspect Mars was the first earth and had life prior to our history here on earth.
And as a Christian the bible allows for this so it works for my theology.
 
2013-12-11 10:53:03 AM  

durbnpoisn: I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.


No it won't. Most fundies don't think we are the only planet with life. Even the Catholic church says extra-terrestrials probably exist.
 
2013-12-11 10:54:01 AM  

Latinwolf: skippysteak: green with zero comments? Or have the ignore features finally won?

Or as often happens, subby is a mod that approved his own submission, meanwhile you got submissions that can have 20 or more comments and not get green lit.


Mods don't green. Admins green.
 
2013-12-11 10:55:41 AM  
Melt down through the ice on Europa. 100 mile deep ocean of liquid water. Gotta be large beings in it.
 
2013-12-11 10:55:46 AM  
i44.tinypic.com

nope nope nope nope nope.
 
2013-12-11 11:07:07 AM  
blogs.agu.org
 
2013-12-11 11:18:19 AM  

machoprogrammer: durbnpoisn: I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.

No it won't. Most fundies don't think we are the only planet with life. Even the Catholic church says extra-terrestrials probably exist.


Really?  Even the fundies that think that the Earth was formed 6000 years ago, after lunch on a Thursday?
And Catholics are not "fundies".

In any case...  At one time, the Christian church, in particular, was so deadset against anything important existing off this planet that science was held back for centuries.  Just the idea that the earth orbited the sun, and not the other way around, was tough to get past.

So for all of those people that still think in the fundy manner today, they would now have to incorporate much more into their doctrine to keep it beleivable.  On the other hand, since most of that doctrine discounts science as ridiculously flawed already, they will probably just toss new evidence aside as bunk anyway.
 
2013-12-11 11:20:51 AM  

durbnpoisn: The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.


That's moving the goal posts.  Simply finding evidence of past life on another planet in our solar system would be huge. 
We've believed for years that the reason why we exist is because of a massive amount of coincidences coming together to complete the Goldilocks' effect.  If we find evidence of life on the next freaking planet over in our pinprick of a solar system, that implies that the universe is teeming with life.  Huge.
 
2013-12-11 11:29:21 AM  

Whiskey Dickens: durbnpoisn: The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.

That's moving the goal posts.  Simply finding evidence of past life on another planet in our solar system would be huge. 
We've believed for years that the reason why we exist is because of a massive amount of coincidences coming together to complete the Goldilocks' effect.  If we find evidence of life on the next freaking planet over in our pinprick of a solar system, that implies that the universe is teeming with life.  Huge.


I get what you're saying, and I agree with you.
I've been reading around a little bit since this thread started...  It really does seem that science is trying VERY hard to find diffinitive proof of that sort.  Their criteria is extremely difficult to find clear examples of (obviously).  But it HAS to be that way in order to prove incontrivertably that what they've found IS evidence of life.  This is why we have a mountain of speculation with no completely verifyable evidence.
I suppose that's why it's still considered big news when yet another possible place to investigate comes into view.
 
2013-12-11 11:39:28 AM  

skippysteak: green with zero comments? Or have the ignore features finally won?

Either way... Go Curiosity, go!

(Am I the only one that wishes it was equipped with a dust brush to go clean the solar panels on the other two rovers?)


Yes. Three points. Spirit has been dead since 2010. so any amount of brushing off its solar panels isn't going to help. Secondly, Curiosity is in a crater, exactly where the scientists want to be because that is where the water was. Thirdly, Opportunity is on the other side of Mars. 5,000 miles away or so. That's a heck of a road trip for a rover that goes 90 m (300 ft) per hour.
 
2013-12-11 11:42:24 AM  

Whiskey Dickens: durbnpoisn: The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.

That's moving the goal posts.  Simply finding evidence of past life on another planet in our solar system would be huge. 
We've believed for years that the reason why we exist is because of a massive amount of coincidences coming together to complete the Goldilocks' effect.  If we find evidence of life on the next freaking planet over in our pinprick of a solar system, that implies that the universe is teeming with life.  Huge.


Huge -ly depressing in that it gets rid of a lot of the pleasant answers to fermi's paradox.
 
2013-12-11 11:52:49 AM  

durbnpoisn: Whiskey Dickens: durbnpoisn: The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.

That's moving the goal posts.  Simply finding evidence of past life on another planet in our solar system would be huge. 
We've believed for years that the reason why we exist is because of a massive amount of coincidences coming together to complete the Goldilocks' effect.  If we find evidence of life on the next freaking planet over in our pinprick of a solar system, that implies that the universe is teeming with life.  Huge.

I get what you're saying, and I agree with you.
I've been reading around a little bit since this thread started...  It really does seem that science is trying VERY hard to find diffinitive proof of that sort.  Their criteria is extremely difficult to find clear examples of (obviously).  But it HAS to be that way in order to prove incontrivertably that what they've found IS evidence of life.  This is why we have a mountain of speculation with no completely verifyable evidence.
I suppose that's why it's still considered big news when yet another possible place to investigate comes into view.


*definitive
*criterion is, criteria are
*incontrovertibly
*verifiable

Dude, you're making me twitch like an epileptic at the disco.
 
2013-12-11 11:55:16 AM  
OMG, dude... I'll spellcheck my posts from now on.
 
2013-12-11 11:57:18 AM  
IIRC, Subby, The Hitchhiker's Guide says that the East River is particularly full of the nutrients needed by alien species. So, NASA: 2, Subby Snark: 0!

:p

;)
 
2013-12-11 11:58:33 AM  

durbnpoisn: OMG, dude... I'll spellcheck my posts from now on.


John Travolta thanks you, as do I.
 
2013-12-11 12:16:19 PM  
The East River at one point supported a huge amount of life... New York was known for having massive oyster beds. But that was a couple hundred years ago.

Mars? I'm not getting excited until they prove it.
 
2013-12-11 01:24:06 PM  

Psychopusher: The East River did have life. Well, formerly living things, floating downstream, usually with extra holes in them.


It's funny. You put extra holes in them thinking they'll sink. But nooooo. They just keep bobbing along the surface for anyone to report to the cops.
 
2013-12-11 01:28:29 PM  

durbnpoisn: Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.  Just looking at how life of that sort can live on THIS planet, in what we consider to be extreme conditions, is evident proof of that.

As long as there is liquid water and some sort of energy source, bacteria will thrive there.

The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.


I don't think well established is quite right. Some scientists think the current evidence shows that. Many other consider it an open question, that is possible enough to be an area of active research. Some scientists think the current evidence shows nothing but interesting geological micro-crystaline formations.

And, c'mon, you have to have a better reason to be excited about the possibility of life on mars other than "it might upset some people that I dislike".
 
2013-12-11 01:53:32 PM  
"The scientists can tell that water - the "lubricant" of life - was significant and persistent in Gale, and that it must have been broadly neutral in pH, and not at all briney."

Share and enjoy!
 
2013-12-11 02:05:44 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: durbnpoisn: Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.  Just looking at how life of that sort can live on THIS planet, in what we consider to be extreme conditions, is evident proof of that.

As long as there is liquid water and some sort of energy source, bacteria will thrive there.

The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.

I don't think well established is quite right. Some scientists think the current evidence shows that. Many other consider it an open question, that is possible enough to be an area of active research. Some scientists think the current evidence shows nothing but interesting geological micro-crystaline formations.

And, c'mon, you have to have a better reason to be excited about the possibility of life on mars other than "it might upset some people that I dislike".


I do have a better reason.  I think it would be the most profound and important discovery of all mankind.  Pissing off a group of people that I consider to be idiots anyway would just be a bonus,
 
2013-12-11 03:24:19 PM  
Subby is a douche about NASA (see all preceding comments) but he does NYC a disfavor by being ignorant  http://onlynylives.com/story/east-river-fishing-friendships-stripers- a nd-a-little-pcb
 
2013-12-11 04:34:20 PM  
endmile:
It actually is equipped with a dust brush, but it's not anywhere near the other rovers.

bbfreak:
Yes. Three points. Spirit has been dead since 2010. so any amount of brushing off its solar panels isn't going to help. Secondly, Curiosity is in a crater, exactly where the scientists want to be because that is where the water was. Thirdly, Opportunity is on the other side of Mars. 5,000 miles away or so. That's a heck of a road trip for a rover that goes 90 m (300 ft) per hour.


I honestly forgot it actually had a brush.

Looking it up, Curiosity has something like a 14-year lifespan, at a minimum. So, once it finishes the crater, it'll be time for its own road trip :)
I couldn't figure out exactly how far apart the two rovers are, but at its top speed Curiosity can go half-way around Mars in 13.87 years. So another 14 years to find the other rover and dust it off... that's just enough time! It'll be fiiiine!

And then the little rovers can huddle next to Curiosity for warmth, since their own radioactive components don't give off enough heat these days, much less in the future.

Maybe our next launch should just include a solar hutch with a dust brush and a heater for the landing site of whatever rover we send, come to think of it. For all Curiosity's pretty damn impressive with the nuclear power and the laser and all... Spirit and Opportunity move twice as fast and weigh a quarter or what Curiosity does. For the same poundage we could send three little bots and a heated shed. Cover six times the area, and all that. Guess it depends on what they want to do- cover more ground, or bring laser domination to the martian landscape >:D
 
2013-12-11 05:57:55 PM  

George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.


You missed it on the Phoenix mission:

d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net

www.digitaljournal.com
 
2013-12-11 06:10:27 PM  

durbnpoisn: Here's the thing, folks...  It's been pretty well established that life of at least bacterial grade lived on Mars at one time.  Just looking at how life of that sort can live on THIS planet, in what we consider to be extreme conditions, is evident proof of that.

As long as there is liquid water and some sort of energy source, bacteria will thrive there.

The trick is (and this is the important part), finding large, multicellular life forms (like us, for instance).  None of this news about bacteria is going to excite anyone.

I, for one, am waiting until they actually DO find large, multicellular life forms outside of this planet.  It would certainly shake up all the religious fundies.


Nope. If God created the universe, then he created all things in it.

It would take more than alien life to shake their view. Give it a rest already.
 
2013-12-11 06:46:48 PM  

washington-babylon: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

You missed it on the Phoenix mission:

[d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net image 800x321]

[www.digitaljournal.com image 512x256]


I don't see the bottle cap in that photo(jk)

Did they confirm what kind of condensation that is and whether or not it came from the rover?

/linky pleasy
 
2013-12-11 07:37:16 PM  

George Babbitt: washington-babylon: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

You missed it on the Phoenix mission:

[d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net image 800x321]

[www.digitaljournal.com image 512x256]

I don't see the bottle cap in that photo(jk)

Did they confirm what kind of condensation that is and whether or not it came from the rover?

/linky pleasy


While it was impossible to confirm the exact composition of the droplets, Phoenix did land in a water ice rich area, and subsequently it was announced that water ice had been discovered.From the evidence in the camera shots I posted, some of the science community think that brine from a pocket under the lander was splashed up onto the struts during landing and formed a puddle under the lander that re-froze and later sublimated. So far no consensus has been reached, and so the issue has not been revisited despite the possible implications of the discovery.


/Since you asked so nicely :)
 
2013-12-11 08:14:27 PM  

George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.


Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.
 
2013-12-11 10:33:36 PM  

washington-babylon: George Babbitt: washington-babylon: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

You missed it on the Phoenix mission:

[d1jqu7g1y74ds1.cloudfront.net image 800x321]

[www.digitaljournal.com image 512x256]

I don't see the bottle cap in that photo(jk)

Did they confirm what kind of condensation that is and whether or not it came from the rover?

/linky pleasy

While it was impossible to confirm the exact composition of the droplets, Phoenix did land in a water ice rich area, and subsequently it was announced that water ice had been discovered.From the evidence in the camera shots I posted, some of the science community think that brine from a pocket under the lander was splashed up onto the struts during landing and formed a puddle under the lander that re-froze and later sublimated. So far no consensus has been reached, and so the issue has not been revisited despite the possible implications of the discovery.


/Since you asked so nicely :)


Cool, thanx, still waiting though, while I may be less inclined to get as irritated by piecemeal suppositions of Mars water. Time to send a Chunnel boring machine there and let it dig us tunnels for the next 50 years, maybe with a dip or two close to a hopefully warm core to heat things up a la Total Recall(original). Crazy talk? Sure, but leaving this planet with the specter of cosmic radiation makes it so.
 
2013-12-11 10:35:24 PM  

RedVentrue: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.


That would be neat if the link that I was just most graciously provided with didn't cover the issue of atmospheric pressure on Mars not being enough to support liquid water except in depressions at low altitudes for a short time.
 
2013-12-12 08:47:23 AM  

Stabone33: "The scientists can tell that water - the "lubricant" of life - was significant and persistent in Gale, and that it must have been broadly neutral in pH, and not at all briney."

Share and enjoy!


It tastes almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea.

/goes to get towel
 
2013-12-12 08:55:23 AM  
Look, if there's water, there might be weather.  If there's weather, there might be climate.  I say we send some sort of probe to check for climate.  Rather than land, it should orbit the planet.  A climate orbiter, if you will.  And if Americans are sending it, of course metric will not used in its construction.
 
2013-12-12 03:04:38 PM  

George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.

That would be neat if the link that I was just most graciously provided with didn't cover the issue of atmospheric pressure on Mars not being enough to support liquid water except in depressions at low altitudes for a short time.


The liquid water is suspected to be in underground aquifer systems.
 
2013-12-12 04:06:04 PM  

RedVentrue: George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.

That would be neat if the link that I was just most graciously provided with didn't cover the issue of atmospheric pressure on Mars not being enough to support liquid water except in depressions at low altitudes for a short time.

The liquid water is suspected to be in underground aquifer systems.


How did satellites observe the running water? Or was it when it escaped to the surface?
 
2013-12-12 05:09:33 PM  

George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.

That would be neat if the link that I was just most graciously provided with didn't cover the issue of atmospheric pressure on Mars not being enough to support liquid water except in depressions at low altitudes for a short time.

The liquid water is suspected to be in underground aquifer systems.

How did satellites observe the running water? Or was it when it escaped to the surface?



Escaped to the surface and left erosion.  Of course the water quickly evaporates or sublimates
www.nasa.gov
link

nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov
Relatively young landforms on Mars, seen in high-resolution images acquired by the Mars Global Surveyor Mars Orbiter Camera since March 1999, suggest the presence of sources of liquid water at shallow depths beneath the martian surface.
 
2013-12-12 05:21:42 PM  

rwfan: George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: RedVentrue: George Babbitt: Actual water or an ice cube large enough to chill my drink, till then STFU about water on Mars.

Evidence of recent running water was observed by sattelite a couple of years ago.

That would be neat if the link that I was just most graciously provided with didn't cover the issue of atmospheric pressure on Mars not being enough to support liquid water except in depressions at low altitudes for a short time.

The liquid water is suspected to be in underground aquifer systems.

How did satellites observe the running water? Or was it when it escaped to the surface?


Escaped to the surface and left erosion.  Of course the water quickly evaporates or sublimates
[www.nasa.gov image 330x230]
link

[nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov image 350x226]
Relatively young landforms on Mars, seen in high-resolution images acquired by the Mars Global Surveyor Mars Orbiter Camera since March 1999, suggest the presence of sources of liquid water at shallow depths beneath the martian surface.


Most excellent. Maybe there is enough subsurface water to shield us from cosmic radiation when we are living in the tunnels.
 
2013-12-12 06:00:01 PM  
 
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