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(The Raw Story)   Oklahoma lawmakers: No Satanist monument because 'this is a faith-based state' (Satanism is really more of a lifestyle, see...)   (rawstory.com) divider line 286
    More: Asinine, satanists, Oklahoma, Oklahoma lawmakers, Satanic Temple, Tulsa World, real options, lawmakers  
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3104 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Dec 2013 at 2:26 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-10 04:07:57 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity

Why do you call Satanism a fake religion? It's as real as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Atheism, or Buddhism. It has been legally recognized as a religion in the U.S. for over five decades.


Because I took the 5 minutes that it takes to do some research on the group putting up the monument, Satanic Temple, to realize they are an openly fake religion, using satire to draw more scrutiny on religion.
 
2013-12-10 04:08:20 PM  

d23: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Satanism is not only a faith, but it's a faith based on the same exact mythology the Christians use to prop up their own faith.

To add to this... the exact same group of the people calls the Wiccans "Satanists" and they don't believe in the existence of Satan at all.  I can't figure that out at all...


Don't some Satanist believe in and worship Satan?
 
2013-12-10 04:10:10 PM  

Darth Macho: This was your discussion:
"I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel."

Your opening opinion was essentially 'stop whining and deal with it'.


I was in several different discussions. That was one of them, yes, I am not Christian, but who cares if they want to put up a 10 commandments block. Yes, stop whining about it. And yes, if the Satanic Temple wants to be allowed to put up a monument, more power to them.
 
2013-12-10 04:10:26 PM  

EWreckedSean: apoptotic: EWreckedSean: kidgenius: EWreckedSean: So how does one type of government land differ from another?

It doesn't. But, and here's what you might be missing, Oklahoma told the Satanists "NO MONUMENT FOR YOU".

So they are excluding one religion in preference for another. This is the opposite of the graveyard scenario. If they allowed the monument, I don't really have an issue.

I agree they should be allowed to put it up. But let's be honest and call it a practice of free speech, not of faith.

So instead of approaching it as a First Amendment issue....they should approach it as a First Amendment issue?

I think it is a free speech clause issue and not an establishment or free exercise clause issue.


And they're being denied their free speech because....?

Here's a hint: "This is a faith based state".
 
2013-12-10 04:11:22 PM  
ITT:
A case for ignore is made.
 
2013-12-10 04:11:55 PM  

EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.


Ok, let's look at this. Here's your Boobies. Your argument is that "everyone's Christian, suck it up." At no time do you mention the free speech issue. (Apologies, I'm on mobile.) If you look at the thread, you only mention the free speech issue after you get dogpiled. Damn, that's an amazing coincidence! The goalpost gets moved from a) everyone's Christian, suck it up to b) it's not a real religion. After you start experiencing the discomfort of getting dogpiled, you shift to "hey I think it's a free speech issue, why are we arguing" to alleviate the discomfort of dischord. Yeah, that's goalpost moving. Face it, you are acting like a weak willed authoritarian, unable to deviate openly from the general consensus. I'm imagining this has been a life-long pattern. Anything to keep the peace, huh?
 
2013-12-10 04:12:53 PM  

apoptotic: EWreckedSean: apoptotic: EWreckedSean: kidgenius: EWreckedSean: So how does one type of government land differ from another?

It doesn't. But, and here's what you might be missing, Oklahoma told the Satanists "NO MONUMENT FOR YOU".

So they are excluding one religion in preference for another. This is the opposite of the graveyard scenario. If they allowed the monument, I don't really have an issue.

I agree they should be allowed to put it up. But let's be honest and call it a practice of free speech, not of faith.

So instead of approaching it as a First Amendment issue....they should approach it as a First Amendment issue?

I think it is a free speech clause issue and not an establishment or free exercise clause issue.

And they're being denied their free speech because....?

Here's a hint: "This is a faith based state".


Sure, that representative is an idiot. I'm happy to agree with that. What part did he have in blocking this?
 
2013-12-10 04:12:58 PM  

EWreckedSean: Obama's Reptiloid Master: EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.

When the government does it, it's a problem.

/The birthing crèche of the Nazarene piglet is not holy! It's straw shall line the shiat house of the hellhounds, and they shall make a chew toy of the true cross!

The government didn't do it. Even in Okie it was privately funded and paid for.


Then you also be confounded by why there are people objecting to a privately funded satanist monument.  What happened to equal treatment?
 
2013-12-10 04:13:24 PM  

EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity

Why do you call Satanism a fake religion? It's as real as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Atheism, or Buddhism. It has been legally recognized as a religion in the U.S. for over five decades.

Because I took the 5 minutes that it takes to do some research on the group putting up the monument, Satanic Temple, to realize they are an openly fake religion group, using satire to draw more scrutiny on religion.


You might want to clarify that you are calling THIS GROUP fake, not the entire religion of Satanism. 'Cause THAT'S what everyone is calling you on...
 
2013-12-10 04:15:20 PM  

EWreckedSean: apoptotic: EWreckedSean: apoptotic: EWreckedSean: kidgenius: EWreckedSean: So how does one type of government land differ from another?

It doesn't. But, and here's what you might be missing, Oklahoma told the Satanists "NO MONUMENT FOR YOU".

So they are excluding one religion in preference for another. This is the opposite of the graveyard scenario. If they allowed the monument, I don't really have an issue.

I agree they should be allowed to put it up. But let's be honest and call it a practice of free speech, not of faith.

So instead of approaching it as a First Amendment issue....they should approach it as a First Amendment issue?

I think it is a free speech clause issue and not an establishment or free exercise clause issue.

And they're being denied their free speech because....?

Here's a hint: "This is a faith based state".

Sure, that representative is an idiot. I'm happy to agree with that. What part did he have in blocking this?


Sorry, I hear "GUYS STOP PICKING ON ME!" Fine, I will accede to your request.
 
2013-12-10 04:18:05 PM  

EWreckedSean: I think it is a free speech clause issue and not an establishment or free exercise clause issue.


EWreckedSean: Bloody William: Considering the rep said "This is a faith-based nation," even if the Satanists are doing this for the lulz, it's very farking clearly an establishment clause issue.

I totally agree.


*headdesk*

Aaaand we're done here.
 
2013-12-10 04:23:06 PM  

I'm an Egyptian!: EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.

Ok, let's look at this. Here's your Boobies. Your argument is that "everyone's Christian, suck it up." At no time do you mention the free speech issue. (Apologies, I'm on mobile.) If you look at the thread, you only mention the free speech issue after you get dogpiled. Damn, that's an amazing coincidence! The goalpost gets moved from a) everyone's Christian, suck it up to b) it's not a real religion. After you start experiencing the discomfort of getting dogpiled, you shift to "hey I think it's a free speech issue, why are we arguing" to alleviate the discomfort of dischord. Yeah, that's goalpost moving. Face it, you are acting like a weak willed authoritarian, unable to deviate openly from the general consensus. I'm imagining this has been a life-long pattern. Anything to keep the peace, huh?


I love how you took two different conversations, and here, I'll lay them out for you:

1) I don't understand why people get so butthurt about a private organization putting up 10 commandments on private property, Christian symbols are everywhere, just ignore them.

2) They should be allowed to have their Satanic Temple monument, but this is about free speech, not religious intolerance, because they aren't a real religion.

Made them into one, and then screamed moving the goal posts. Bravo.
 
2013-12-10 04:23:44 PM  

spiderpaz: EWreckedSean: Obama's Reptiloid Master: EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.

When the government does it, it's a problem.

/The birthing crèche of the Nazarene piglet is not holy! It's straw shall line the shiat house of the hellhounds, and they shall make a chew toy of the true cross!

The government didn't do it. Even in Okie it was privately funded and paid for.

Then you also be confounded by why there are people objecting to a privately funded satanist monument.  What happened to equal treatment?


Jesus read the farking thread.
 
2013-12-10 04:24:54 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity

Why do you call Satanism a fake religion? It's as real as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Atheism, or Buddhism. It has been legally recognized as a religion in the U.S. for over five decades.

Because I took the 5 minutes that it takes to do some research on the group putting up the monument, Satanic Temple, to realize they are an openly fake religion group, using satire to draw more scrutiny on religion.

You might want to clarify that you are calling THIS GROUP fake, not the entire religion of Satanism. 'Cause THAT'S what everyone is calling you on...


The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.
 
2013-12-10 04:27:34 PM  

EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity

Why do you call Satanism a fake religion? It's as real as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Atheism, or Buddhism. It has been legally recognized as a religion in the U.S. for over five decades.

Because I took the 5 minutes that it takes to do some research on the group putting up the monument, Satanic Temple, to realize they are an openly fake religion group, using satire to draw more scrutiny on religion.

You might want to clarify that you are calling THIS GROUP fake, not the entire religion of Satanism. 'Cause THAT'S what everyone is calling you on...

The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.


So if they were really serious about worshiping the devil, then that would actually change it for you, and you would agree with their right to install such a display?  I seriously doubt it.  Sounds like a convenient justification to discriminate.
 
2013-12-10 04:27:43 PM  
Dear Oklahoma Fundies,

You wanted "religious freedom". You got it.

But, it means ALL religions. Not just your goose-stepping rightwing jackoff cult.

Try to block other faiths from having the same freedoms you demanded to have? Enjoy your ACLU lawsuit!

Signed,

Sane People

PS:

static.giantbomb.com
 
2013-12-10 04:28:39 PM  

apoptotic: EWreckedSean: I think it is a free speech clause issue and not an establishment or free exercise clause issue.

EWreckedSean: Bloody William: Considering the rep said "This is a faith-based nation," even if the Satanists are doing this for the lulz, it's very farking clearly an establishment clause issue.

I totally agree.

*headdesk*

Aaaand we're done here.


I think his statement is an establishment clause issue. He's not the one who blocked this.
 
2013-12-10 04:29:58 PM  
EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.
 
2013-12-10 04:38:03 PM  

Ant: Isn't LaVey Satanism pretty much Randian Objectivism by another name? Right wingers should love that.


"Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law."

--  Aleister Crowley Rand Paul
 
2013-12-10 04:38:10 PM  

spiderpaz: EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity

Why do you call Satanism a fake religion? It's as real as Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Atheism, or Buddhism. It has been legally recognized as a religion in the U.S. for over five decades.

Because I took the 5 minutes that it takes to do some research on the group putting up the monument, Satanic Temple, to realize they are an openly fake religion group, using satire to draw more scrutiny on religion.

You might want to clarify that you are calling THIS GROUP fake, not the entire religion of Satanism. 'Cause THAT'S what everyone is calling you on...

The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

So if they were really serious about worshiping the devil, then that would actually change it for you, and you would agree with their right to install such a display?  I seriously doubt it.  Sounds like a convenient justification to discriminate.


Reading isn't your friend is it?
 
2013-12-10 04:38:52 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.


They are openly a satirical organization.
 
2013-12-10 04:40:23 PM  

EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.


so?
 
2013-12-10 04:42:27 PM  
I'm stunned the Christian Taliban hasn't thought their cunning plan through.
 
2013-12-10 04:42:40 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?


So they aren't a real religion. You seem to be implying their website makes them real, when they are pretty outright about not being real.
 
2013-12-10 04:42:59 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?


It's well known in the US that satire has no legal protection under free speech, nope, none. In fact, comedians and clowns of all ilk aren't even considered people. You can kill anyone making joke without reprisal.

/first against the wall
 
2013-12-10 04:44:47 PM  

Burning_Monk: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

It's well known in the US that satire has no legal protection under free speech, nope, none. In fact, comedians and clowns of all ilk aren't even considered people. You can kill anyone making joke without reprisal.

/first against the wall


Read the thread, get back to me.
 
2013-12-10 04:44:59 PM  

Darth Macho: The longer people keep picking at EWreckedSean the closer we all get to him breaking down and throwing out Bible quotes about how we're all going to burn in Hell. This is the saddest feat of anti-concern trolling from an obvious fundie ever.


I don't think he's actually a fundie.  He's either doing this for the lols or he's getting paid.
 
2013-12-10 04:46:34 PM  

EWreckedSean: I'm an Egyptian!: EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.

Ok, let's look at this. Here's your Boobies. Your argument is that "everyone's Christian, suck it up." At no time do you mention the free speech issue. (Apologies, I'm on mobile.) If you look at the thread, you only mention the free speech issue after you get dogpiled. Damn, that's an amazing coincidence! The goalpost gets moved from a) everyone's Christian, suck it up to b) it's not a real religion. After you start experiencing the discomfort of getting dogpiled, you shift to "hey I think it's a free speech issue, why are we arguing" to alleviate the discomfort of dischord. Yeah, that's goalpost moving. Face it, you are acting like a weak willed authoritarian, unable to deviate openly from the general consensus. I'm imagining this has been a life-long pattern. Anything to keep the peace, huh?

I love how you took two different conversations, and here, I'll lay them out for you:

1) I don't understand why people get so butthurt about a private organization putting up 10 commandments on private property, Christian symbols are everywhere, just ignore them.

2) They should be allowed to have their Satanic Temple monument, but this is about free speech, not religious intolerance, because they aren't a real religion.

Made them into one, and then screamed moving the goal posts. Bravo.


Ok, so you want more abuse. I'm game. (Kids, pay attention. You may learn something.)

Let's look at point 1, as you have posted. It is essentially as I have previously stated "suck it up." Ok, fine. I'll use small words so your middling intellect can understand it. Your second point ain't in thar! If you review the thread, that second argument didn't occur until you differed out you can't defend the argument that their religion is "fake." You then shift to "what I meant to say..." which is weasel words for "OH SHIAT!" Then you moved the goalposts to "it's a free speech issue" without figuring out they are basically THE SAME DAMN THING. That is moving goalposts, which you have done. In conclusion, QED, retire from the field, and STFU.
 
2013-12-10 04:46:46 PM  

EWreckedSean: Burning_Monk: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

It's well known in the US that satire has no legal protection under free speech, nope, none. In fact, comedians and clowns of all ilk aren't even considered people. You can kill anyone making joke without reprisal.

/first against the wall

Read the thread, get back to me.


I read it, don't worry I'm sure you are safe.
 
2013-12-10 04:47:30 PM  

EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

So they aren't a real religion. You seem to be implying their website makes them real, when they are pretty outright about not being real.


They're pretty clearly a real group; even you admit that.
 
2013-12-10 04:48:02 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Darth Macho: The longer people keep picking at EWreckedSean the closer we all get to him breaking down and throwing out Bible quotes about how we're all going to burn in Hell. This is the saddest feat of anti-concern trolling from an obvious fundie ever.

I don't think he's actually a fundie.  He's either doing this for the lols or he's getting paid.


I have kind of enjoyed watching people struggle to find a reason to argue with me while I agree with them.
 
2013-12-10 04:48:08 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Darth Macho: The longer people keep picking at EWreckedSean the closer we all get to him breaking down and throwing out Bible quotes about how we're all going to burn in Hell. This is the saddest feat of anti-concern trolling from an obvious fundie ever.

I don't think he's actually a fundie.  He's either doing this for the lols or he's getting paid.


Occam's Razor. I think he's just an idiot.
 
2013-12-10 04:48:59 PM  
This thread got trolled hard.
 
2013-12-10 04:49:38 PM  
At least they're honest about being satirical while the Christians still pretend they're serious about their faith while doing the exact opposite as Jesus said.

I think that makes the Satanists morally superior to the Christians.
 
2013-12-10 04:56:04 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

So they aren't a real religion. You seem to be implying their website makes them real, when they are pretty outright about not being real.

They're pretty clearly a real group; even you admit that.


That was a question?
 
2013-12-10 04:57:20 PM  

I'm an Egyptian!: Ok, so you want more abuse. I'm game. (Kids, pay attention. You may learn something.)

Let's look at point 1, as you have posted. It is essentially as I have previously stated "suck it up." Ok, fine. I'll use small words so your middling intellect can understand it. Your second point ain't in thar! If you review the thread, that second argument didn't occur until you differed out you can't defend the argument that their religion is "fake." You then shift to "what I meant to say..." which is weasel words for "OH SHIAT!" Then you moved the goalposts to "it's a free speech issue" without figuring out they are basically THE SAME DAMN THING. That is moving goalposts, which you have done. In conclusion, QED, retire from the field, and STFU.


Lol abuse? You screaming names while being wrong over and over and over again isn't abusing me. It is making my day pass easier. Thanks for getting me through the afternoon. Have a wonderful evening.
 
2013-12-10 04:58:15 PM  

EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

So they aren't a real religion. You seem to be implying their website makes them real, when they are pretty outright about not being real.

They're pretty clearly a real group; even you admit that.

That was a question?


No. The definition of "real" you seem to be using isn't really relevent in these circumstances.
 
2013-12-10 04:58:32 PM  

Burning_Monk: EWreckedSean: Burning_Monk: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

It's well known in the US that satire has no legal protection under free speech, nope, none. In fact, comedians and clowns of all ilk aren't even considered people. You can kill anyone making joke without reprisal.

/first against the wall

Read the thread, get back to me.

I read it, don't worry I'm sure you are safe.


I can tell, by you suggesting I said the exact opposite I've said a few dozen times in this thread.
 
2013-12-10 04:59:49 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:
The Satanic Temple religion is fake. The only thing they have in common with other forms of Satanism probably is the word Satan in their name.

They have a website and so far have managed to be real enough to try to install a statue in the public space near where the State of Oklahoma recently allowed a Ten Commandments statue to be installed.

They are openly a satirical organization.

so?

So they aren't a real religion. You seem to be implying their website makes them real, when they are pretty outright about not being real.

They're pretty clearly a real group; even you admit that.

That was a question?

No. The definition of "real" you seem to be using isn't really relevent in these circumstances.


Sigh. Read the thread. I had about six of these geniuses asking me how dare I not call them a real religion, when not one of them could take 10 seconds to look them up and see they are openly not a real religion.
 
2013-12-10 05:00:53 PM  

Weatherkiss: At least they're honest about being satirical while the Christians still pretend they're serious about their faith while doing the exact opposite as Jesus said.

I think that makes the Satanists morally superior to the Christians.


I've got no issue with them (Satanic Temple of New York).
 
2013-12-10 05:03:52 PM  
EWreckedSean:Sigh. Read the thread. I had about six of these geniuses asking me how dare I not call them a real religion, when not one of them could take 10 seconds to look them up and see they are openly not a real religion.

It. Does. Not. Matter. If the State of Oklahoma is going to allow a statue of the Ten Commandments they must allow statues from other beliefs(satirical or otherwise), otherwise they're violating the Establishment Clause.
 
2013-12-10 05:08:22 PM  

EWreckedSean: I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space. I am not remotely Christian, but we do live in a society where 85% or so of the people are in some shape or form. Christian religious imagery is everywhere you turn. Who cares? Kind of falls under the same category to me as TV or radio I don't like, I simply ignore it or change the channel.


Seems from TFA, the people who are butthurt are the ones complaining about the thought of the Satanic monument from going up.
 
2013-12-10 05:14:26 PM  

EWreckedSean: Believing what you are saying, and not doing it to make fun of another groups religion is a pretty god sign of the realness of a religion. These guys are atheists mocking Christians, which I have no issue with what so ever.


As fun as it is to give people like Wiccans and Satanists shiat for major elements of their religions being solely in place to mock/troll Christianity... you do realize that religions have been doing stuff like that to each other with varying degrees of seriousness pretty much since religion was invented, right?

Hell, half of Christianity's holy days are pretty much entirely just to call out/devalue the various other middle eastern and European religions, and like 50% of the New Testament is dedicated to mocking the mystery cults of pre-Christian Rome.  Hell, breaking the power of the old order through mockery and subversion is the only reason the religion was cultivated and expanded through the empire in the first place, no one actually gave a shiat about the Jesus part of it until quite a while later.

If being in place to mostly to mock/devalue another religion makes something "not a real religion", then Christianity's disqualified pretty easily.  Clearly we need to tear the ten commandments monument down and replace it with a shrine to sacred Hestia, you bunch of infidels.
 
2013-12-10 05:20:02 PM  

EWreckedSean: gilgigamesh: Darth Macho: The only reason anybody erects a Ten Commandments monument nowadays is to provoke a fight.

What I find really amusing is that this particular fight always takes the form of a Ten Commandments monument. I assume they chose this symbol because they can shoehorn in the crude argument that it isn't a religious monument at all, but is instead a tribute to the foundation of our system of laws.

But everyone knows, as at least one lawmaker basically admits in this article, that this is really about Christian dominionism. The problem is they are tripping over their own dicks here: the Ten Commandments are not applicable to Christians. They were swept away with all other Rabbinical law by the coming of Christ who is supposed to represent the "New Covenant" with God (ie man can only come to God by acceptance of Christ as his savior). So either these 10 commandment people are actually secret Jews, or they are Christians who got so caught up in their desire to impose their religion on everyone else that they forgot its most central tenet.

But then these are the same people who cherry pick Leviticus as an excuse to hate gay people so I guess consistency and internal logic aren't part of this game.

Is it about Christian dominionism? Are they fighting to block monuments erected by other real faiths? Let's be honest here, this isn't them blocking a Jewish Group, this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity. I have no issues with letting free speech reign here, but let's call it what it is.


Yes, it is. Do you really think they wouldn't have the same basic reaction if the monument was, say, a Koranic verse written in Arabic? Or a monument to a godless universe?

You will notice the response was "this is a faith-based nation and a faith based state". That is Dominionism; and if by "faith" you think he meant any faith except the narrow version of Christianity he practices, you are a fool.
 
2013-12-10 05:22:13 PM  

Serious Black: Who the fark died and made you judge of what counts as a real religion?


Jesus.
 
2013-12-10 05:24:53 PM  

Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean:Sigh. Read the thread. I had about six of these geniuses asking me how dare I not call them a real religion, when not one of them could take 10 seconds to look them up and see they are openly not a real religion.

It. Does. Not. Matter. If the State of Oklahoma is going to allow a statue of the Ten Commandments they must allow statues from other beliefs(satirical or otherwise), otherwise they're violating the Establishment Clause.


That's not entirely true. While there may be a speech issue, if it is a satirical religion it is not going to get recognized under the establishment or free exercise clauses.

Only actual recognized religions are entitled to first amendment free exercise protections. It is the reason why peyote cults don't get an exemption from federal drug laws.

I don't remember exactly the formula, but obviously a basic requirement is that the religion be, you know, actually a religion.
 
2013-12-10 05:42:15 PM  

MisterTweak: Benevolent Misanthrope: "This is a faith-based nation and a faith-based state," grumbled Rep. Earl Sears (R-Bartlesville) to the World, perhaps forgetting that Satanism is also a faith. "I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation."

No.  No, it's not, you farking peckerwood.

There is no way the hard-working and honest people of Oklahoma would elect someone *that* stupid to a public office.

*checks TFA*

I stand corrected. They actually did elect someone that stupid.

Did the voters of Bartlesville realize they elected an illiterate who apparently never actually read the US constitution to run the affairs of their government?

What the hell is in the water there, anyway? Mercury flavoring?


Jesus... Jesus is in the water.

/and he's getting a little waterlogged.
 
2013-12-10 05:44:43 PM  
Why do they keep saying 'christian ten commandments'? Shouldn't they be saying Jewish?
 
2013-12-10 05:55:04 PM  

EWreckedSean: RexTalionis: EWreckedSean: I have no issues with letting free speech reign here, but let's call it what it is.

"I have no issues with letting free speech reign - but those guys aren't even a real religion - they don't get a say!"

How is that strawman working out? I have repeatedly stated I have no issue with the monument being put up as a practice of free speech. I think we should stop pretending this is religious intolerance though. These guys are Atheists mocking Christians.


So it's intolerance of someone else's speech? By a religious group? And they don't like it because it offends their religion?

I sort of see your point, but only because I think you are misunderstanding what we mean by "religious intolerance".

You seem to be defining it as "intolerance toward a religion", whereas we believe it also includes "intolerance from a religion". Essentially, if there's intolerance, and there's religion involved; then it's religious intolerance.

Does that make more sense?
 
2013-12-10 05:58:39 PM  

EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.


The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.
 
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