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(The Raw Story)   Oklahoma lawmakers: No Satanist monument because 'this is a faith-based state' (Satanism is really more of a lifestyle, see...)   (rawstory.com) divider line 287
    More: Asinine, satanists, Oklahoma, Oklahoma lawmakers, Satanic Temple, Tulsa World, real options, lawmakers  
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3098 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Dec 2013 at 2:26 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-10 05:58:39 PM

EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.


The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.
 
2013-12-10 06:17:24 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.

The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.


"The Oklahoma Ten Commandments monument has had an already eventful history. It was proposed in 2009 by Republicans in the state legislature. It was funded by state Rep. Mike Ritze (R-Broken Arrow), who donated $10,000, and an additional $10,000 obtained from private sources."

The Satanists are the genuine believers here, the sincerity of their beliefs is above any possible reproach of the government.  How can you examine their consciences?  The history of their beliefs and practices in this country bears them out as members of a true religion.  I submit that the Republicans that erected this monument are the adherents to a false religion -- how are we to know otherwise?

 Which specific religious sect do they claim is responsible for erecting the monument?  We will need to judge for ourselves, as you have the Satanists, whether or not the "private benefactors" of this monuments are members of a fake religion.
 
2013-12-10 06:25:40 PM

d23: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Satanism is not only a faith, but it's a faith based on the same exact mythology the Christians use to prop up their own faith.

To add to this... the exact same group of the people calls the Wiccans "Satanists" and they don't believe in the existence of Satan at all.  I can't figure that out at all...


Some Christians basically believe that the deities of all other religions are really Satan and/or demons. Or that all other religions are inspired by Satan. Worshipping *anything* besides their very specific deity amounts to worshipping Satan.
 
2013-12-10 06:35:57 PM
Oklahoma meet the SCOTUS. SCOTUS... Oklahoma.
 
2013-12-10 06:41:29 PM

skullkrusher: Remember the good old days when you could sell your soul for unimaginable powers of darkness and the ability to summon eldritch creatures from the netherworld?


I remember seeing that documentary years ago.

indomovi.com
 
2013-12-10 06:41:30 PM

skullkrusher: Remember the good old days when you could sell your soul for unimaginable powers of darkness and the ability to summon eldritch creatures from the netherworld? Now it doesn't even buy a farking statue in Oklahoma. Farking inflation, man.


If we could just mint a trillion dollar pentagram we could, but it was deemed a nuclear option by it's detractors.
 
2013-12-10 07:05:05 PM
Ugh the courts are gonna reject this because it's an out of state group. The satanists should have founded n Oklahoma chapter and funded them.
 
2013-12-10 07:07:13 PM
files.myopera.com
 
2013-12-10 07:15:35 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.

The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.


So they're only about 6,000 years behind......got it yeah they are equal.
 
2013-12-10 07:18:49 PM

EWreckedSean: ocd002: qorkfiend: It's almost like this is the reason we have separation of church and state to begin with, so that the state doesn't get to decide what is and isn't a religion.

It's almost as if a good portion of the founding fathers weren't Christian....

That's not really that true. Most were Christian in some shape or form. Hell even Jefferson wrote his own version of the bible. Sure there were Deists and Unitarians, but I bet if you can find a list 90% would be Christian in some shape, form or practice.


You need to stop listening to David Barton:  he's a habitual breaker of the ninth commandment.  Hell, his CHRISTIAN publisher pulled his "we are a christian nation because the founders were christian" book because of the factual errors and outright lies within it.

EWreckedSean: Bloody William: Considering the rep said "This is a faith-based nation," even if the Satanists are doing this for the lulz, it's very farking clearly an establishment clause issue.

I totally agree.


So you're in favor of a state religion then?  It certainly seems so with your "I still don't understand the butthurt people get when somebody puts up a 10 commandments memorial, or a nativity scene for that matter, on public space "  which makes me think your " I am not remotely Christian" is a lie, which wouldn't surprise me because christians willingly lie about their faith today more often than muslims have used "taqquiya" (lying about their faith in order to save their life, for the ignorant among us) in their entire history.  Which is odd, because no such concept exists in christianity: it's expressly FORBIDDEN by Paul several times, IIRC.
 
2013-12-10 07:24:58 PM

EWreckedSean: 1) I don't understand why people get so butthurt about a private organization putting up 10 commandments on private property, Christian symbols are everywhere, just ignore them.


It's not private in this case.  The monument may be privately funded, but it's going on public land, not some church's front yard.
 
2013-12-10 07:25:55 PM

Serious Black: Anybody know how to donate to the Satanists to get their monument built?


http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/put-a-satanic-monument-at-ok-capit ol is the donation capaign for the Satanic Monument.
 
2013-12-10 07:37:08 PM

Sobekneferu: Serious Black: Anybody know how to donate to the Satanists to get their monument built?

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/put-a-satanic-monument-at-ok-capit ol is the donation capaign for the Satanic Monument.


I wanted to see if they have a concept for the design of their monument and found this

We are keenly attune to the need for a public-friendly design and plan is to make our monument an object of play for young children.

What percentage of Oklahomans will physically restrain their children from playing on the satanic playground monument?
 
2013-12-10 07:38:46 PM

Fart_Machine: This thread got trolled hard.


Nah, just someone who can't admit they were wrong and will say anything to prove it.  Dishonest scum, is more like it.
 
2013-12-10 07:47:05 PM
"This is a faith-based nation and a faith-based state," grumbled Rep. Earl Sears (R-Bartlesville) to the World, perhaps forgetting that Satanism is also a faith. "I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation."

A few question for the honored Representative:

As a Christian, do you believe in the existence of the Devil, a being also known as Satan?
Do you have any tangible, physical proof as to the existence of that being?

If you answer to the first is yes, and to the second no, then congratulations!  You now have just as much faith in the existence of Lucifer as any of the Satanists!
 
2013-12-10 08:09:50 PM
SENATOR:  "I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation."

REPORTER:  Senator, when smiling evangelicals give millions to Jews with the secret longing they'll build the third temple to trigger Armageddon and the end of the world at which time all Jews will burn in hell for refusing to worship the magic baby Jesus, do you think they find that offensive?

SENATOR:  Stop persecuting me for my faith.
 
2013-12-10 08:11:00 PM

EWreckedSean: Is it about Christian dominionism? Are they fighting to block monuments erected by other real faiths? Let's be honest here, this isn't them blocking a Jewish Group, this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity. I have no issues with letting free speech reign here, but let's call it what it is.


Satanism is not a fake religion, it is in fact what every capitalist follows in all but name.

they prefer the less ritualistic version popularized by Ayn Rand
 
2013-12-10 08:12:45 PM

cchris_39: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.

The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.

So they're only about 6,000 years behind......got it yeah they are equal.


Did I say "equal"? No. I did not. So what's your point?
 
2013-12-10 08:18:26 PM
EWreckedSean: ...this is them trying to block a fake religion from putting up something to mock Christianity.

WE know that.  THEY do not.

They think it's real, dude.
 
2013-12-10 08:27:27 PM
Doesn't Scientology have a dog in this fight for religion icons?

Why aren't they battling for a statue of lawyers on the courthouse lawn?
 
2013-12-10 08:28:39 PM

Obama's Reptiloid Master: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Satanism is not only a faith, but it's a faith based on the same exact mythology the Christians use to prop up their own faith.

C: I believe Jesus Christ is the son of the god who created the world, and that all who do not worship him shall be punished!

S: What a coinydink! Me too!

C: Praise Jesus!

S: Nah, fark the Nazarene. When my master ascends from the Pit, it shall be only to crush the necks of the faithful beneath the black armor of his greaves. With one hand around the throat of the weak Christ, he shall hold aloft with the other the Hellhammer and shout, 'do as thou wilt!' Then shall follow a thousand years of unending lust, as the innocent are corrupted and the temple whores of Asherah spread the holy communion of Belial, the Lesioned King.

C: Wha... what?

S: When the fog of rutting madness lifts, the befouled wombs of the whores shall give birth to seven upon seven generations of new nephilim to serve the Master. All who served well shall be rewarded with a transformation of the flesh! As they die upon the altars of sacrifice, the necromancers shall chant the ancient incantations of the bedoui and we shall be reborn as bestial demons! Our five toes shall fuse to two, and cloven-footed we shall walk among the unbelievers, slaying left and right to sate our unending hunger for violent conquest.

C: I'm scared.

S: Call out to your puny godling! He cannot save you now. A thousand years of darkness shall Lucifer reign, and mighty will be his grasp. Hail Asmodai! Hail Adra-Moloch! Hail Azazel! Hail Samael! Hail Apolloyon! Hail Satan!


Beautiful. Just... Beautiful.

9.75/10
 
2013-12-10 08:33:50 PM
Also a hokey religion.
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-12-10 08:34:14 PM

EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: I don't see a privately funded 10 Commandments monument on public property as being a violation of the 1st amendment. It doesn't establish a government religion and it doesn't stop the free exercise of religion.

which is a reasonable argument right up until you refuse to allow symbols from other religions.

I agree.


Why would there be a privately funded anything on the grounds of the government itself? This is not some outlet of the DMV or a fishing license bureau. This is the capitol. There should be no advertisements whatsoever there.
 
2013-12-10 08:55:59 PM

Bennie Crabtree: EWreckedSean: Voiceofreason01: EWreckedSean: I don't see a privately funded 10 Commandments monument on public property as being a violation of the 1st amendment. It doesn't establish a government religion and it doesn't stop the free exercise of religion.

which is a reasonable argument right up until you refuse to allow symbols from other religions.

I agree.

Why would there be a privately funded anything on the grounds of the government itself? This is not some outlet of the DMV or a fishing license bureau. This is the capitol. There should be no advertisements whatsoever there.


The only things that really belong on federal or state government building property:

The U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the state Constitution. A state Bill of Rights if one exists.
 
2013-12-10 09:14:11 PM

UncomfortableSilence: Bloody William: I would love to see a wave of vandalism destroying the first, second, third, and fourth commandments on any of these monuments on public land, because those commandments are  fundamentally farking unconstititonal.

UncomfortableSilence: I don't see what the big deal is, the athiests already erected a non-existent monument.

Or, y'know, a monument to the advance of science and the idea that mankind is the creator of its own destiny and caretaker of its world, and that no higher power holds sway over us and thus we must look to ourselves and each other for morality and purpose.

A monument to science should not be related to atheism.  No reason to make the right-wingers hate science any more than they already do.  We'll find ourselves having angry arguments about whether the satue is held down by gravity and engineering a solid base or whether Jesus is just ok with it not floating away.


That answer is pretty obvious. Jesus was never cool with nailing stuff down.
 
2013-12-10 09:39:34 PM

Theaetetus: Mikey1969: Interesting bit from the Oklahoma State Constitution:

Section II-5: Public money or property - Use for sectarian purposes.
  No public money or property shall ever be appropriated,
applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use,
benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system
of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest,
preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or
sectarian institution as such.

Sounds like they are violating their own constitution with the whole 10 Commandments thing...

It's private. From the article:
Constitutional law professor Joseph Thai told the AP that allowing the Ten Commandments monument to stay in place puts the state in a legally vulnerable position. "The state can disown the Ten Commandments monument erected at the Capitol with private funds as private speech, but then it cannot reject other privately donated religious monuments - even a satanic one - on the basis of viewpoint," Thai explained.

Although it's not entirely clear, I'm sure they'd argue that the public land surrounds the monument, but the state sold those particular few square feet to the Ten Commandments folks, which would be legal.


Really? It's that easy of a loophole?

Compare it to the Mt. Soledad Cross in San Diego. The city tried to sell the land under it, but the court claimed the sale process, itself, was a display of religious preference. The city would have had to open up the land (monument on top) for bids (which would have been hilarious, IMHO). I know that's just the California constitution, but the concept seems universal. Selling very peculiar chunks of government land without a bidding process is corruption at its most basic.

/IANAL
 
2013-12-10 10:51:11 PM

cchris_39: Sin_City_Superhero: EWreckedSean: The Satanic Temple religion is fake.

The Satanic Temple isn't a religion, genius. It's a religious group. Satanism is the religion, and it's been recognized as one for over five decades.

So they're only about 6,000 years behind......got it yeah they are equal.


What is your measure of equality based on age got to do with anything?
 
2013-12-10 10:53:24 PM

Bennie Crabtree: This is the capitol. There should be no advertisements whatsoever there.


Until this very second I never thought the intent of all this is just marketing in marble, a cheap way to advertise for at least 100 years while never receiving bill, located at a place everyone sees eventually, no different Staples Stadium, Verizon Field or Coca-Cola Court.

While there's still some aspect of "Christians own this country and we're staking our claim" involved, it really does boil down to pure marketing, does it not?
 
2013-12-10 10:56:44 PM
"When first erected, the Ten Commandments monument had multiple spelling errors..."

What does it mean when home-schooling Christian adults cannot spell a brief 10-item list they've been hammering into every man, woman and child for 2,000 years; a list with very few words where even the first three items are just repeats?

You know that first monument was prayed over and amen-ed over with the same fervor they use to teach kids that Jesus rode a biblesaur to the First Supper. Since the monument still went up with errors, one has to ask: Why does god hate spellcheck?
 
2013-12-10 10:57:48 PM
Could they just settle for a bust of Muhammad?
 
2013-12-10 11:52:19 PM
In this thread: proof positive that the best way to keep a troll account fresh is to go away for a while so people forget your earnest dumbfark schtick and take the bait hook, line and sinker.
 
2013-12-11 01:14:25 AM

Benevolent Misanthrope: "This is a faith-based nation and a faith-based state," grumbled Rep. Earl Sears (R-Bartlesville) to the World, perhaps forgetting that Satanism is also a faith. "I think it is very offensive they would contemplate or even have this kind of conversation."

No.  No, it's not, you farking peckerwood.


"faith-based" = Christian
 
2013-12-11 01:33:20 AM
Satanism is not satirical. It just argues that we are animals and shouldn't be ashamed when we act like it. LeVay tells the tale of working at a carnival and watching men go from church to the brothel and basically said, 'why should we deny ourselves what we want to do?' He then created some rituals and some dogma, then viola, religion.

Now Discordianism, that's satirical, or not. Hail Eris, for she is a biatch and we love her for it.
 
2013-12-11 09:20:41 AM

GodComplex: Satanism is not satirical. It just argues that we are animals and shouldn't be ashamed when we act like it. LeVay tells the tale of working at a carnival and watching men go from church to the brothel and basically said, 'why should we deny ourselves what we want to do?' He then created some rituals and some dogma, then viola, religion.

Now Discordianism, that's satirical, or not. Hail Eris, for she is a biatch and we love her for it.


I invite you to look up this specific group. They are openly being Satirical.
 
2013-12-11 09:47:09 AM

MisterTweak: What the hell is in the water there, anyway? Mercury flavoring?


A bit of poking about suggests lead and cadmium, resulting as by-products of a previous zinc smelting operation.
 
2013-12-11 10:20:20 AM

EWreckedSean: GodComplex: Satanism is not satirical. It just argues that we are animals and shouldn't be ashamed when we act like it. LeVay tells the tale of working at a carnival and watching men go from church to the brothel and basically said, 'why should we deny ourselves what we want to do?' He then created some rituals and some dogma, then viola, religion.

Now Discordianism, that's satirical, or not. Hail Eris, for she is a biatch and we love her for it.

I invite you to look up this specific group. They are openly being Satirical.


So they're Discordian Satanists then? Perhaps they are a faction of the Church of Sub Genius? Are religious groups forbidden from satirizing people?
 
2013-12-11 12:38:16 PM

RexTalionis: EWreckedSean: There was one reference to god in it.

That one reference was only used for to denote that the year was in AD.

"done in Convention by the Unanimous Consent of the States present the Seventeenth Day of September in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and Eighty seven and of the Independance of the United States of America the Twelfth In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,"


Yeah. I love it when they focus in the literal English translation of the Latin phrase "Anno Domini" which in informal documents was simply abbreviated "A.D." or "AD," but in formal and/or legal documents (and what could be more formal and legal than the Constitution?) was traditionally spelled out in English.

Yet they completely ignore the rest of our dating system. Of the months of the year, over ½ of them are based on names of Roman mythological pagan deities and rituals, and Roman Cæsar emperors (who were considered demigods): Janus, Februa, Mars, Avril, Maia, Juno, Julius and Augustus Cæsar) and the rest are mere numbers (Seventh [September] through Tenth [December] Month [at the time New Years was held in March]).

For the days of the week, it's even worse for "our whole culture is based on Chrisianity" types: all seven of them are based on two generic, five Norse, and one Roman mythological pagan deities: the generic Sun God's day, the generic Moon God(dess)'s day, Tiu's Day, Woden's Day, Thor's Day, Frigg's Day, and Saturn's Day.
 
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