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(IGN)   Hope you weren't planning on owning more than 20 games for your new Xbox One, the non-upgradeable hard drive reaches capacity at 362GB with the operating system taking up a whopping 30%   (ign.com ) divider line
    More: Stupid, Xbox  
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4273 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Dec 2013 at 10:07 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-10 01:44:24 PM  

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.
 
2013-12-10 01:46:58 PM  

Xavier99: I keep on hearing all this "cloud, cloud, cloud' in the discussion.  Have fun re-downloading all that content and then getting hit by Comcast's monthly bandwidth limits (or paying the extra $$).

I got into that bad habit on Steam - pulling down games as I was interested in them and that (along with streaming) was a reason we ended up changing services.  It's all and good that everything is readily available - till you have to pay an extra $10 per 50 GB


We just upgraded our internet to unlimited for the same reason. Between my downloading of games and my son running youtube 24/7 we were chewing through our 120BG/month by week 2.
 
2013-12-10 01:56:57 PM  

sure haven't: GlassWalker: Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.

Ned Stark: ...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.

So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.


A quick count reveals I have 32 games installed, that's just the Steam stuff. Not to mention music, movies, tv shows, UFC fights and other stuff I've forgotten about. You are forgetting, or intentionally leaving out the fact that this space will also be used by such media, DLC's, mandatory patches to the OS etc.
Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.

PS4 allows you to replace a drive, many already have. Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.
 
2013-12-10 01:57:02 PM  
LL316:I can't fathom why anyone would keep a game longer than a year, so as a PS4 user I won't even make fun of this "limitation" on the Xbox.   I'd love to download games onto the Playstation, since it's easier to go back and forth, but then there's no trade in value.  And since games in 2014 will be much better than games in 2013, why bother keeping them?  NHL 94 is the exception, not the rule.

What about games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, HALO, The Witcher, Gears of War, etc? You don't like to replay the entire series occasionally?

I'm going through Mass Effect again right now and, yeah, the first one is kinda cruddy compared to the newer games (graphics wise, anyway.) But if I didn't keep it, I'd be missing that whole first part of the story.
 
2013-12-10 01:57:57 PM  
Well, the good news is you won't actually own the games. You just get to play them until Microsoft says you can't anymore.
 
2013-12-10 02:01:49 PM  

Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.


Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is we really want the "just work" philosophy in consoles, not the "do I need to buy an external HDD?  How big should it be?  Which models does it supoprt?" and etc frustrations...it's not a gripe that's out in left field...it's perfectly reasonable demand given the history of console gaming.
 
2013-12-10 02:03:16 PM  

srhp29: 20 games "at once".  There is never I time I feel the need to have 20 games available to play so this isn't really an issue.


Sorry, we keep forgetting that the world revolves around you and what you want.
 
2013-12-10 02:05:17 PM  

ReverendJasen: sammyk: I work for a large bank that you hate.

The bank that I hate?  Hmmm.  Is it based in Charlotte?  I used to work for them too, a little over a decade ago.  Had me running all over S. FL doing hardware support for the servers and workstations.  Didn't hate them back then. :)


I don't hate the paychecks, or working from home for that matter.
 
2013-12-10 02:06:20 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.


Your approved change request and full backout plan, where is it?
 
2013-12-10 02:09:19 PM  

CheatCommando: sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.

No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.


Touch screens and accelerometers need nothing more than drivers. A couple MB tops.
 
2013-12-10 02:09:44 PM  

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


upload.wikimedia.org

Mines got more storage than yours.  Just saying.
 
2013-12-10 02:11:01 PM  

likefunbutnot: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

I hope you love to clean up your WinSXS folder.
I've seen older installs of Windows 7 with nothing but Office and Visual Studio (and no personal files at all) run a 120GB drive out of room.

Anyway, this should not in any way be surprising. Those systems shipped with an inadequate amount of disk space for the type of content they're expected to use. I don't think it's a big deal for my Surface Pro to only have ~80something GB of space free on its main drive because that's pretty much infinity of PDFs, JPEGs and Word documents, but it's a much bigger deal for a system where every gamer knows that mainstream hit games are going to eat 40GB of space between binaries and textures and random multimedia assets. The solution is going to be storage expansion, either by adding an external drive or upgrading the launch model drive. Chances are in three years or so a 1TB SSD will be affordable enough to be appealing and it wouldn't shock me at all if there's an intermediate Xbox One.1 that moves to that sort of storage. In the meantime, gamers who need more space will just upgrade their drives.


If you install office or VS on a server please quit the business.
 
2013-12-10 02:14:19 PM  

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is ...


This is the only part that actually surprises me. This was always a feature of consoles I couldn't argue with, and owned consoles for that very reason. The console makers have jumped the shark tho. PC gaming is now in many ways more convenient and easier than a console. This is pants on head retarded. When I see these arguments made I can't help but think that it's either buyer's remorse or Stockholm Syndrome.

/No MS doesn't really beat you because they love you
//They just love your money
///Shut up and pay 5 times market price for a similar size drive because it's MS approved, KNAVE!
 
2013-12-10 02:24:26 PM  
I just want to plug in the game cartridge and instantly play. Having a hdd for game patches, save games, configs, downloaded games, etc is fine, but when I want tto play on a console I want it to be instant.
 
2013-12-10 02:25:00 PM  

WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.


I was contemplating an upgrade immediately, but decided to hold off.  I guess I'll upgrade when it gets filled up.
 
2013-12-10 02:30:47 PM  
 
2013-12-10 02:31:47 PM  

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is ...


Exactly this. Consoles are in the process of killing the golden goose. The reason I bought an XBOX was that I was tired of needing an upgrade or hassle whenever I got a new game. Xbox 360 worked pretty good. I could even skip updates if desired, as I don't use XBLive.

GTAV is a significant step in the wrong direction. Not only do I get disk read errors 50% of the time, but the install took forever, and required me to delete things from the HDD for the first time. I sense XB1 will have much more of games like this, where there will be an ordeal before I get to enjoy the game.

I'm sitting this generation out. I'm sure I'll cave in when the prices have dropped quite a bit, but I'm good for now.
 
2013-12-10 02:35:56 PM  

sammyk: CheatCommando: sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.

No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.

Touch screens and accelerometers need nothing more than drivers. A couple MB tops.


I have never had my hands on the guts of a Surface, but iOS provides a hell of a lot more that driver level support for those.
 
2013-12-10 02:37:19 PM  

scalpod: How to upgrade your PS4 hard drive.

How to upgrade your Xbox One hard drive.


From your second link.

" By copying files from your original drive and using their Linux-compatible tool to repartition the new HDD, you can be up and running with more capacity after just a reboot or two"

Because people who complain that a Windows PC is too complex will want to use Linux.
 
2013-12-10 02:38:26 PM  

stewbert: I'm sitting this generation out. I'm sure I'll cave in when the prices have dropped quite a bit, but I'm good for now.


Ditto.

I expect within a couple of years consoles will be little more than receivers from the cloud to your display device and an input system. There's a lot of amazing things going on with cloud technology where all the processing (including the graphics processing) is done on the back end and then beamed to users. Virtual PCs and the like. 

When I can dial up a game and play the same way I use Netflix for movies, I'll be super excited. Even if they doubled the XBox Live fee to $120 per year, if I had access to all or most of the games and could play on demand I'd be extremely happy. 

All the tech's in place (or very nearly so), it's just a matter of rolling out gaming as a service.
 
2013-12-10 02:40:17 PM  
FarkGrudge:  Bottom-line:  the complaint is we really want the "just work" philosophy in consoles, not the "do I need to buy an external HDD?  How big should it be?  Which models does it supoprt?" and etc frustrations...it's not a gripe that's out in left field...it's perfectly reasonable demand given the history of console gaming.

Well then if you want a next-gen console, the Wii U or PS4 is for you.  Taking the Wii U out for argument's sake, the PS4 has staked out ground as the anti-Xbox One, more focused on what you'd call "traditional" console gaming while the One is all about cramming as much different shiat in their console as humanly possible.

ymmv and all that but I don't like how cluttered everything is.  Everything is a goddamn app.  Want to view an achievement?  Gotta back out of your game and open the Achievements app.  It's annoying.

I also have a bug up my ass about Metro, I just don't like it and it's a little laggy on the One imho.  You'd think that with all that reserved horsepower and disk space for the OS it'd be snappy as hell but it's not.  I really hope Microsoft can trim the fat so to speak and free up a lot of the resources the OS is using for use in the games.  From what I understand that's what's been gimping some of these cross platform games on the One compared to the PS4.  I could be talking out of my ass though.

On the bright side, I thought Ryse was a lot of fun and I'm definitely going to check out Halo Spartan Assault.
 
2013-12-10 02:42:06 PM  
When (if) it's added it will use the USB 3.0 port on the unit.  This generation MS hasn't shown an inclination to try to sell you an overpriced HD in a custom enclosure.  Is it possible, of course.  Will MS have brands it recommends for use, probably, will those providers provide "Xbox One certified HD's" you bet your ass, will there be a reason you can't use a standard USB 3 HD, probably not.


Of course this is not the place for a rational discussion.

/sitting out of the next gen for now.
 
2013-12-10 02:42:46 PM  

Luse: Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.


Woops sorry, I had meant to say earlier that I find this point here valid. That's why I still only usually buy on physical media. I do not trust Microsoft or anyone to "keep my purchase on record". So in that case I agree not to uninstall.
 
2013-12-10 02:46:16 PM  

Vaneshi: BumpInTheNight: Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.

Your approved change request and full backout plan, where is it?


I am fortunately in a small & agile enough shop where that plan consists of me going "Odds of this going bad?  None.  Let's do it." :)

/Veeam is my safety net too
 
2013-12-10 02:48:40 PM  

sure haven't: Luse: Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.

Woops sorry, I had meant to say earlier that I find this point here valid. That's why I still only usually buy on physical media. I do not trust Microsoft or anyone to "keep my purchase on record". So in that case I agree not to uninstall.


That was actually the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. I was set to buy both PS4 and XBone. Instead, I built a new gaming PC, upgraded the video card in my old one and handed it down to my wife. Now she bugs me to play Xcom, Borderlands 2 and Injustice. The shiat I gotta put up with, I tell ya.
 
2013-12-10 02:49:49 PM  

Ravage: I just want to plug in the game cartridge and instantly play. Having a hdd for game patches, save games, configs, downloaded games, etc is fine, but when I want tto play on a console I want it to be instant.


Sorry, that isn't going to happen anymore. Consoles are now PCs. Trust me when I say that when you get one, the pros vastly outweigh the cons. I too was first caught off guard at the 10-15 min install, but then when I played and had minimal load screens I remembered why it's so much more awesome.

Also I have apps on my Ipad that sync to the game I'm playing on my xbox and give me more content, missions, maps, etc. Pretty cool.
 
2013-12-10 02:53:20 PM  

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.


I keep hearing this as the main reason people prefer consoles, but as someone who has a PS2, PS3, XBox360 and a PC I don't see the problem. It's not like back in the late 80s /early 90s where you had to memorize a bunch of DOS commands to use a PC. Everything today is plug and play on PCs. I've only had two problems with PC games in the last 10 years and they were taken care of by updating drivers, which PCs do automatically just like consoles (the only difference being you have to  "OK" the update which takes one click of the mouse). I just built a new PC, loaded all my games from Steam, some of which are over 10 years old, and everything worked perfectly.

Memory management? This has always been an issue with consoles depending on how many games you have. Regardless of the platform, if you filled the HD, you filled the HD. You could either pay for an upgrade, delete stuff, or use an external. It's no more (or less) difficult on a PC than an XBox or PS.

I suppose backward compatibility is a bit of an issue for PCs. Games written for DOS may have problems running under windows 7, but the last time I checked you can't play PS2/PS3 games on the PS4, nor 360 games on the XBone.

Is installation the problem? With consoles you plug the console into the power, connect to the TV (you do have to fiddle with your TV inputs usually). PC's are about the same except you need to plug in your mouse and keyboard, I suppose that's complicated if you can't figure out how a USB plug works.

I'm not trying to shiat on consoles (like I said, I own three of them), but let's stop pretending that PCs are complicated. You can certainly customize PCs (far more than any console) and some of the custom rigs are complex, but the average person can pick up a decent gaming rig that will work as well as a console right out of the box, with a HD three times the size as the consoles, and cost less (bought my son an Asus i7 earlier this year for $500).
 
2013-12-10 02:55:38 PM  

Luse: Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.


Well now I regret being nice in my previous post. Should've finished reading your comment before responding.

LOL, buying products means taking it without lube. So it's a human rights violation for a company not to provide everyone with 500TB of HD space? Just so neckbeards like "Luse" can install games and leave them on there forever.

People like me don't give a flying f*ck how much space there is. I said it earlier, I have a 360 with 250gb. After almost a year of ownership, I am no where even close to like 30% of it being filled. Enjoy your day being mad that people don't waste their energy being mad about this bullsh*t. 500gb is a massive amount of storage for a console. If you're filling it, you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-12-10 02:55:45 PM  

ReverendJasen: sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition

I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


You ran apache and mysql on a windows box?  WTF is wrong with you?
 
2013-12-10 02:58:23 PM  

Tyrosine: I'm not trying to shiat on consoles (like I said, I own three of them), but let's stop pretending that PCs are complicated. You can certainly customize PCs (far more than any console) and some of the custom rigs are complex, but the average person can pick up a decent gaming rig that will work as well as a console right out of the box, with a HD three times the size as the consoles, and cost less (bought my son an Asus i7 earlier this year for $500).


Don't forget input. 

Keyboard and mouse used to be a barrier to playing on PC, but now Xbox controllers are directly compatible (even wireless, with a cheap adapter) and PS-clones are even cheaper.

I have Assassin's Creed 4 on Steam, and play with my Xbox controller. It's just the same as my 360, but with better graphics.
 
2013-12-10 03:06:13 PM  

GlassWalker: Don't forget input.

Keyboard and mouse used to be a barrier to playing on PC, but now Xbox controllers are directly compatible (even wireless, with a cheap adapter) and PS-clones are even cheaper.

I have Assassin's Creed 4 on Steam, and play with my Xbox controller. It's just the same as my 360, but with better graphics.


When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore
 
2013-12-10 03:06:58 PM  

OgreMagi: You ran apache and mysql on a windows box? WTF is wrong with you?


I moved it from FreeBSD because I wanted to be able to RDP into it, basically.
All it did was run a vBulletin forum, so I figured worst case, nothing of value could be lost.
 
2013-12-10 03:07:06 PM  

sure haven't: Luse: Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.

Well now I regret being nice in my previous post. Should've finished reading your comment before responding.

LOL, buying products means taking it without lube. So it's a human rights violation for a company not to provide everyone with 500TB of HD space? Just so neckbeards like "Luse" can install games and leave them on there forever.

People like me don't give a flying f*ck how much space there is. I said it earlier, I have a 360 with 250gb. After almost a year of ownership, I am no where even close to like 30% of it being filled. Enjoy your day being mad that people don't waste their energy being mad about this bullsh*t. 500gb is a massive amount of storage for a console. If you're filling it, you're doing it wrong.


Perhaps read my next response. I've actually owned 2 360's (RROD). My first one was a gift and came with a pitifully small harddrive, don't  recall which. That's also the one that I had to remove Dreamfall from to make room for RDR if memory serves. I've since gotten a 250gb HD from someone that was tossing their RRoD 360. That one seems sufficient for the 360, but certainly not the XBone.

You later said that you can see why someone wouldn't trust MS to keep their purchase history on file. Sorry if I came of douchey however you have people blindly defending MS as if it was their baby daddy. We've had people in this thread link to a simple way you can upgrade the XBone hd, using Linux and obviously against MS recommendations. Those are mental gymnastics that I simply can't fathom.

/Scalpod, thanks for the links. I forwarded them to my Linux Server guys. I haven't heard them laugh like that in a long time.
 
2013-12-10 03:13:02 PM  

ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: You ran apache and mysql on a windows box? WTF is wrong with you?

I moved it from FreeBSD because I wanted to be able to RDP into it, basically.
All it did was run a vBulletin forum, so I figured worst case, nothing of value could be lost.


Why would you need to RDP into it?  ssh is the only access tool you ever need.  An OS needs a GUI like a fish needs a banjo.
 
2013-12-10 03:24:00 PM  
One of the major complaints I'm reading is: "I don't want to wait for an entire re-install to play my old games."

Good news!  Unlike a PC, both the PS4 and XBONE will let you start playing a game the moment sufficient content is available, and will continue installing in the background as you play it.

I encountered this with my xbone.  I popped in Assassin's Creed IV and the metro tile was labelled "install".  I started it and went off to watch some of the welcome/guide content.  After a minute or so, I received a pop-up notification that AC IV was ready to play ... confused, I checked "My Games" and saw it had an installation progress of 7%, the tile label was now "Play".  So I did, and it played fine!
 
2013-12-10 03:25:49 PM  

Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore


I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.
 
2013-12-10 03:28:16 PM  

OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?


Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.
 
2013-12-10 03:29:14 PM  
Didn't MS state they were just going to allow external HDDs to be attached via USB?
 
2013-12-10 03:33:25 PM  

BumpInTheNight: I am fortunately in a small & agile enough shop where that plan consists of me going "Odds of this going bad?  None.  Let's do it." :)

/Veeam is my safety net too


Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at.  You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails.   That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change.  This will not happen during business hours.  You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"?  That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.

Probably best to just allocate 'silly' amounts of space in the first place... build team generally don't give two shiats how broken something is just so long as it's exactly what was requested on the sheet.
 
2013-12-10 03:35:58 PM  

GlassWalker: Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore

I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.


True. I first turned to consoles because I found controllers easier and for my first few months back on a PC I used them. My friends and I play a lot of L4D2 and I was always in last place and could never sight in on jockeys and hunters until I switched to keyboard mouse. I haven't played AC yet, but I find my game play vastly improved on most FPS (CoD, Battlefield, Borderlands, etc.). I'll give AC a try over the holidays and see how it goes.
 
2013-12-10 03:37:20 PM  

NicktheSmoker: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

Uh oh, your internet just went down.  There went all your games :(


I don't have a house in this fight as a very casual gamer in that there's not a chance in he'll I'll fill my consoles hard drive. But IF it happened I'll be able to add an external. As for the internet I don't know what it's like everywhere else but in a decade in my house I can count internet outages on the fingers of one hand... And they were usually coupled with a power outage. No, I'm not going to install solar panels or a generator either.
 
2013-12-10 03:41:26 PM  

Vaneshi: Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at. You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails. That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change. This will not happen during business hours. You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"? That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.


Ah.  The joys of big corporate environments.
 
2013-12-10 03:41:30 PM  

Tyrosine: True. I first turned to consoles because I found controllers easier and for my first few months back on a PC I used them. My friends and I play a lot of L4D2 and I was always in last place and could never sight in on jockeys and hunters until I switched to keyboard mouse. I haven't played AC yet, but I find my game play vastly improved on most FPS (CoD, Battlefield, Borderlands, etc.). I'll give AC a try over the holidays and see how it goes.


If you haven't played any of the series yet, don't judge it too much until the second game. AC is fun, but repetitive, and it's pretty clear they hadn't tested all the kinks in the system. It gets repetitive, but it's worth it for the story alone. 

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest watching the AC game movie on Youtube and then jumping directly into the second game. The expansions are worth it.

AC3 is kind of a step back, but so-so. I played about half of it, then watched the movie.

AC4 is awesome so far, but I'm only a few hours in. It feels a lot like AC2, though, which is a very good thing.
 
2013-12-10 03:42:09 PM  
If I wanted to have to install and uninstall crap instead of actually playing the game, I'd just game on the PC.  I don't like that though.
 
2013-12-10 03:43:43 PM  

Vaneshi: Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at. You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails. That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change. This will not happen during business hours. You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"? That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.

Probably best to just allocate 'silly' amounts of space in the first place... build team generally don't give two shiats how broken something is just so long as it's exactly what was requested on the sheet.


That sounds absolutely suffocating, I used to work in that sort of environment on the networking side and damn glad to be in a genuinely capable environment instead.  I know its a hard to keep unnecessary bureaucratic waste at bay as your data center grows but at some point you gotta let the cowboys fire from the hip once in a while if you ever hope to get anything useful done in a timely manner.

Ugh, being stuck doing one element of a data center ... *shivers*.
 
2013-12-10 03:48:45 PM  

ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?

Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.


A true geek stays up half the night perfecting a script to automate a task that saves 15 minutes a day.
 
2013-12-10 03:55:52 PM  

Tourney3p0: If I wanted to have to install and uninstall crap instead of actually playing the game, I'd just game on the PC.  I don't like that though.


What kind of PC are you using where you have to uninstall games to play other games? Most new PCs come with a minimum of 1 TB HD which over three times the size of the HD in the current generation of consoles.

Again, not disparaging consoles but can we stop with the hyperbole about PC gaming being complicated because it's not.
 
2013-12-10 04:09:56 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Didn't MS state they were just going to allow external HDDs to be attached via USB?


Sure. They also say they're going to let you see how full your hard drive is someday.
 
2013-12-10 04:16:55 PM  

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?
 
2013-12-10 04:17:56 PM  

Tax Boy: Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]

What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?


No idea.

/mine are red
 
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