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(IGN)   Hope you weren't planning on owning more than 20 games for your new Xbox One, the non-upgradeable hard drive reaches capacity at 362GB with the operating system taking up a whopping 30%   (ign.com) divider line 213
    More: Stupid, Xbox  
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4267 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Dec 2013 at 10:07 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



213 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-10 11:04:09 AM  

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


Well, yeah. Like on the PS3, I currently play GTAV, Madden, Last of Us, and Dust, and that's about it. I was thinking of reinstalling Grand Theft Horsey for another playthrough, but it certainly didn't need to sit on my console unused for the past year.
 
2013-12-10 11:07:37 AM  

sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition


I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.
 
2013-12-10 11:09:11 AM  
Or you could, you know, delete a game once you're done with it.
 
2013-12-10 11:10:39 AM  

the money is in the banana stand: You could just, you know, use a computer instead.


Nope.
 
2013-12-10 11:11:40 AM  

ReverendJasen: I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


You can tell it's Bespoke Enterprise software by the scream of "why do you have to install to C:\ you heap of shiat?" coming from the IT department usually followed by various quantities of swearing as it conflicts with other business critical software that has to be on the machine in question.
 
2013-12-10 11:11:47 AM  

RexTalionis: RexTalionis: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

You can't install games to Skydrive. Don't be daft. Skydrive is for photos, videos and music.

Also game saves - but game saves (maybe up to 50 megs) aren't that huge compared to a 30-40 gig game install.


Game saves can get pretty large. I remember my Dragon Age save games being like 4MB each, and almost 100 per character (3 characters made). Over a gig there.

And patches/DLC. Those will push games to 50-60GB by the end.
 
2013-12-10 11:16:38 AM  
I have forza and DR3 installed. Loving the forza.

Can I sell the DR3? I just doubt I'm going to be able to get into it. Fact is these modern shooters with a zillion options are just beyond me. I'll probably end up getting one of those bundles with all the classic games when it comes out. Oh, and make fun of me - I just bought peggle 2, which I will enjoy the everloving hell out of.
 
2013-12-10 11:17:14 AM  

ReverendJasen: sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition

I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


I work for a large bank that you hate. Everything we do is enterprise. We almost never have space issues with 36GB on w2k8 servers. Don't install your app on C:\ and it shouldn't be a problem.
 
2013-12-10 11:26:43 AM  
Damn I thought a 16M flash card on my C64 was huge.
 
2013-12-10 11:28:06 AM  

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right?


That's the worst form of upselling I've ever heard.  I presume Microsoft will pay me a stipend for my ISP subscription then?  No?
I'm sure our fellow gamers deployed overseas will love to hear that brilliant idea.

sure haven't: Or you could, you know, delete a game once you're done with it.


Oh, eff all that.  The workaround could be me jerking off to pictures of boobies for all I care.  The fact that a giganormous OEM is putting the burden on the user to overcome a limitation that shouldn't exist today due to bad design is downright embarrassing.
 
2013-12-10 11:29:35 AM  

rpm: I Like Bread: Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?

What HDD manufacturers call gigabytes are gigabytes.

IIRC, memory and such is now measured in gibibytes.


Hard Drives:  Gigabyte = 1000 bytes
Memory:  Gigabyte = 1024 bytes
 
2013-12-10 11:33:02 AM  

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


And when is Microsoft going to start charging for this unlimited free storage?
 
2013-12-10 11:38:32 AM  

dragonchild: Oh, eff all that. The workaround could be me jerking off to pictures of boobies for all I care. The fact that a giganormous OEM is putting the burden on the user to overcome a limitation that shouldn't exist today due to bad design is downright embarrassing.


Is this a new attitude due to larger HD's being available? You keep all games you've ever installed? why?? Do people think they should just be able to install forever??

Even now on my 360, once I'm done with a game, I uninstall it. Because why not? I have a 250gb hard drive, it's not even close to like 70gb taken, and I uninstall any game I'm done with. Do you keep apps on your phone when you don't use them anymore? Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?
 
2013-12-10 11:41:09 AM  
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but the "500GB" hard drive in the PS4 you only get to use 409GB.

Also you can not uninstall the Playroom game, which takes up 500MB.

/PS4 owner
 
2013-12-10 11:45:56 AM  

Tyrosine: logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.

Hybrid. They typically have about 8 gigs of flash drive and the rest is a standard hard drive. They have faster access than a typical HD, but not the same speed as an SSD. I prefer having a separate SSD for my OS and programs, and using a standard HD for data.


As long as you get a good Hybrid that has decent logic/performance in cache hits, you generally get very similar performance in most ways to an SSD, and the cost increase compared to an old style HHD is fairly nominal nowadays, so I doubt I would get a non-hybrid drive for most purposes nowadays.
 
2013-12-10 11:47:46 AM  

sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?


Well, that escalated quickly.
 
2013-12-10 11:55:54 AM  

dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.


Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?
 
2013-12-10 12:02:10 PM  

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


I don't quite trust games which I download from an app store or similar places to be around forever, so I download them and leave them on the hard drive. So yes, I have a version of Catan back from 2009 on my xbox.
 
2013-12-10 12:07:45 PM  

Vaneshi: The Slush: sammyk: I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

Speaking from experience with server 2008, that's a terrible idea.

It was kinda of dumb back in the days of NT4 as well but shhh... it's a lesson we all have to learn the hardway.


Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.
 
2013-12-10 12:10:06 PM  

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


As a vendor, we won't touch 2012, but for 2008 we recommend a minimum of 50gb for the system drive. Windows is currently up to 35gb fully patched and it grows larger every month.
 
2013-12-10 12:11:32 PM  
MicroSoft surely can make big, slow and bad "operating systems". Didn't we know that already?
 
2013-12-10 12:20:10 PM  
Who the fark presumes they know more about the -average- gaming habits of every online Xbox owner than Microsoft?  They farking collect the data.  In this case, you can be damned sure that they have data showing most players don't consistently use 20+ games.
 
2013-12-10 12:28:33 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Who the fark presumes they know more about the -average- gaming habits of every online Xbox owner than Microsoft?  They farking collect the data.  In this case, you can be damned sure that they have data showing most players don't consistently use 20+ games.


I was using 20+ games before it was cool.
 
2013-12-10 12:36:08 PM  
While at this point it can't Microsoft did come out saying they will support external storage.  If in 6 months you still can't use it then get the pitchforks.  (Since the console seems about 6 months earlier then it should have been released)  Sony has come out saying you can swap the HD but they had no plans to allow external storage.  While they can reverse course it makes sense to upgrade the drive since you don't know if you will ever be able to add external storage.
 
2013-12-10 12:39:26 PM  
sure haven't:
Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?

Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.
 
2013-12-10 12:41:05 PM  

xria: Tyrosine: logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.

Hybrid. They typically have about 8 gigs of flash drive and the rest is a standard hard drive. They have faster access than a typical HD, but not the same speed as an SSD. I prefer having a separate SSD for my OS and programs, and using a standard HD for data.

As long as you get a good Hybrid that has decent logic/performance in cache hits, you generally get very similar performance in most ways to an SSD, and the cost increase compared to an old style HHD is fairly nominal nowadays, so I doubt I would get a non-hybrid drive for most purposes nowadays.


I just built a new system and the cost of a 1TB HD and 128GB SSD was about $30 less than the hybrid drive. Had the cost been better I would have kept the SSD, but replaced the HD with the hybrid. It really depends on your needs. The hybrid gives you fast access to the subset of files you use the most, while the rest are at regular HD speed. Even if the price had been the same for the hybrid, an additional $50 for the SSD gives me fast access to 128 gigs of files rather than 8.
 
2013-12-10 12:41:12 PM  

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.
 
2013-12-10 12:42:13 PM  

LongWindedMute: Ah, Microsoft. You can't even really say they've got their heads up their asses anymore; it's becoming more and more apparent that the entire company is just a giant, fractal asshole. As large or small a chunk of the company you want to look at - yup, still an asshole.


You magnificent bastard. I just woke up my kids laughing at that.
 
2013-12-10 12:42:16 PM  
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

www.gamersschmamers.com
 
2013-12-10 12:46:49 PM  

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?
Don'tcha know all the leet boys are using oil now?

cdn.pugetsystems.com
 
2013-12-10 12:47:03 PM  

GlassWalker: Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.


Ned Stark: ...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.


So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.
 
2013-12-10 12:47:31 PM  

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


Super Stardust has been on my PS3 since the day I got the system in June 2008 and it ain't goin anywhere.  could probably do with uninstalling RDR, Vanquish and MGR at this point though.

I think the general points have been addressed already:

- yes, that size is a bit small considering games are getting into the 30GB+ range and these consoles will be around a while if the last gen is any indication, and with a much bigger digital push than was had 2006-2009
- no, it isn't waterboarding to uninstall your infrequent games to make space for GTA6 or wait an hour reinstalling things you haven't used in a while
- yes, an option to install more space would be nice for those users who want to do it, acknowledging that many of these users will be the hardcore nerd game hoarders and not grandma
- no, many gamers will not encounter this limitation if they just want the latest CoD and Just Dance and Madden, unless games are 200GB in 2016
- yes, it's obnoxious if you have bandwidth caps but that's something that gaming is always butting up against
- no, it isn't helpful to tell people to get a PC when they've clearly already chosen not to do that
- yes, you are the only person in this thread who REALLY knows the correct answer and everyone else is an idiot


That should cover it. If you can reconcile these facts with your own gaming habits and expected usage, you can easily avoid frustration. However, don't be surprised to discover that there are many games with very different expectations and usage habits, and a tone-deaf attitude to people who play a lot more/fewer games than you and prefer to install em all/only have one at a time results in a lot of posts saying "well for  me i only want X, Y and Z so that should  obviouslybe enough for everyone and this is/n't an issue"

I think Microsoft would have enough 360 telematics to make an educated decision about the needs of the many, and you might just be an edge case. it isn't a crime

/very glad that I was able to slap a 1 TB drive in my 120 GB PS3 a while ago
 
2013-12-10 12:49:31 PM  
There are going to be 20 games for the Xbone, much less more than that???
 
2013-12-10 12:50:07 PM  
BTW my post is not directed to  sure haven't,except the bit about games since 2008. It sort of comes across that way, sorry.
 
2013-12-10 12:51:17 PM  

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


What's the brown stuff on your walls?
 
2013-12-10 12:51:24 PM  

sammyk: I work for a large bank that you hate.


The bank that I hate?  Hmmm.  Is it based in Charlotte?  I used to work for them too, a little over a decade ago.  Had me running all over S. FL doing hardware support for the servers and workstations.  Didn't hate them back then. :)
 
2013-12-10 12:52:14 PM  
croesius: LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?

Look closer at my rig and you will see the Corsair water cooler on the CPU.
 
2013-12-10 12:53:31 PM  

TheSlothAlive: What's the brown stuff on your walls?


Those would be brown "black out" drapes over the window.
 
2013-12-10 12:54:03 PM  
sure haven't:
So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.


Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something. 

A 4 TB external drive is 130 bucks. It'll be cheaper in a couple years when I need it. 

On the other hand, if I have filled my HDDs with 1000 games or whatever then, yeah, some deleting may be in order. But 1000 games is a lot crazier than 20. Particularly when you're talking about downloading another 40 GB. Even at decent broadband speeds, that's gonna take a while. 

If the One could hold 100 games, I doubt we'd be having this discussion. Even 50 would probably be fine. But using a 500 GB HDD when they could have slapped a 4 TB in there for another $50 is a design flaw.
 
2013-12-10 12:58:32 PM  

GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.


And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".
 
2013-12-10 01:00:05 PM  
I wonder what all those USB ports are for?

\AMD chipset?
\\future allowance for external drives?
\\\unpossible!
 
2013-12-10 01:04:56 PM  

sure haven't: GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.

And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".


I think the disconnect is that it seems like you're saying it's reasonable to juggle 20 game slots and that's what a lot of folks are hrumphing about.

I'd probably agree with your stronger point, though - that HDD space is cheap enough that we may as well just never uninstall anything and upgrade space as needed. 

I mean, that's how I treat my email. I haven't deleted an email since I got my Gmail account.I have like 22,000 Facebook notifications in there that I can't think of a single reason I'd ever need to look at again, but there's plenty of space so, whatever, let em sit.
 
2013-12-10 01:09:01 PM  

Beerguy: croesius: LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?

Look closer at my rig and you will see the Corsair water cooler on the CPU.


;D

It's more fun pretending to be the blindly one-upping PC sort than to acknowledge facts.
 
2013-12-10 01:14:21 PM  

GlassWalker: sure haven't: GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.

And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".

I think the disconnect is that it seems like you're saying it's reasonable to juggle 20 game slots and that's what a lot of folks are hrumphing about.

I'd probably agree with your stronger point, though - that HDD space is cheap enough that we may as well just never uninstall anything and upgrade space as needed. 

I mean, that's how I treat my email. I haven't deleted an email since I got my Gmail account.I have like 22,000 Facebook notifications in there that I can't think of a single reason I'd ever need to look at again, but there's plenty of space so, whatever, let em sit.


You also have to understand who typically plays a console. These are mostly casual gamers and people with limited time on their hands to play. When they want to play, they want gratification immediately. Hell, even a long loading time, intro, or splash-screen could be too much to bear. They are not going to want to sit through a game to install and download the patches and what not. To think the majority of their consumer base is really going to manage the games they have on their system is ludicrous.

What I think is more reasonable to believe is that they are intentionally doing this and will release HDD expansion for a market Premium. Most buyers, particularly console gamers, are extremely frugal. Where at the time of buying they wouldn't have sprung for the model with more storage capacity or the upgrade, when they become frustrated they can't storage anything else, they will be vulnerable and willing to pay almost anything to fix it. Had they released this right away, they would not have been able to get away with this so easily. So, I am thinking this is a business decision to drive profit by exploiting the typical knuckle-dragging console peasant.
 
2013-12-10 01:19:16 PM  

fang06554: winsxs


Explorer doesn't account for hardlinks when calculating drive space, so your WinSXS folder isn't actually 10GB...

So... there's that...
 
2013-12-10 01:30:35 PM  

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


This was my gut reaction.  I always assumed that one of the reasons that a traditional Windows installation was so bloated was to account for the inclusion of various device drivers.  Maybe that assumption was incorrect.  Anyway, I wouldn't think that having 100s of device drivers "just in case" would be a problem for a gaming system OS.

My secondary reaction, and this goes with the OS being on the hard drive, was that maybe people can reverse engineer the xbone OS and make it available for use on a PC.  I'd finally get a version of NCAA Football/Madden produced this century, a non-gimped version of Tiger Woods, RDR, etc.
 
2013-12-10 01:37:03 PM  

sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.


No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.
 
2013-12-10 01:38:16 PM  

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


I hope you love to clean up your WinSXS folder.
I've seen older installs of Windows 7 with nothing but Office and Visual Studio (and no personal files at all) run a 120GB drive out of room.

Anyway, this should not in any way be surprising. Those systems shipped with an inadequate amount of disk space for the type of content they're expected to use. I don't think it's a big deal for my Surface Pro to only have ~80something GB of space free on its main drive because that's pretty much infinity of PDFs, JPEGs and Word documents, but it's a much bigger deal for a system where every gamer knows that mainstream hit games are going to eat 40GB of space between binaries and textures and random multimedia assets. The solution is going to be storage expansion, either by adding an external drive or upgrading the launch model drive. Chances are in three years or so a 1TB SSD will be affordable enough to be appealing and it wouldn't shock me at all if there's an intermediate Xbox One.1 that moves to that sort of storage. In the meantime, gamers who need more space will just upgrade their drives.
 
2013-12-10 01:39:03 PM  
I keep on hearing all this "cloud, cloud, cloud' in the discussion.  Have fun re-downloading all that content and then getting hit by Comcast's monthly bandwidth limits (or paying the extra $$).

I got into that bad habit on Steam - pulling down games as I was interested in them and that (along with streaming) was a reason we ended up changing services.  It's all and good that everything is readily available - till you have to pay an extra $10 per 50 GB
 
2013-12-10 01:43:52 PM  

fawlty: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

That's what you'll have to do.  Sucks really. I have hundreds of 360 games and will, on occasion, rummage thru the old ones, pull out something and spend a 1/2 hour playing just for old times sake.  If I have to go thru the entire re-install every time, which is lengthier than it should be right now, I won't be doing that anymore.


I can't fathom why anyone would keep a game longer than a year, so as a PS4 user I won't even make fun of this "limitation" on the Xbox.   I'd love to download games onto the Playstation, since it's easier to go back and forth, but then there's no trade in value.  And since games in 2014 will be much better than games in 2013, why bother keeping them?  NHL 94 is the exception, not the rule.
 
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