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(IGN)   Hope you weren't planning on owning more than 20 games for your new Xbox One, the non-upgradeable hard drive reaches capacity at 362GB with the operating system taking up a whopping 30%   (ign.com) divider line 213
    More: Stupid, Xbox  
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4262 clicks; posted to Geek » on 10 Dec 2013 at 10:07 AM (18 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



213 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-10 09:30:55 AM
I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.
 
2013-12-10 09:36:23 AM
Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.
 
2013-12-10 09:40:35 AM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


http://www.pcworld.com/article/2026692/microsoft-surface-pro-64gb-co me s-with-only-23gb-of-available-storage-space.html

Microsoft Surface Pro 64GB comes with only 23GB of available storage space

Microsoft confirmed the $899 64GB model of the Surface Pro will only have 23GB available for use out of the box - that's just under 36 percent of the advertised capacity. The rest is taken up by the full Windows 8 Pro install, preinstalled apps and a recovery partition, which make up for the 41GB occupied. The 128GB model of the Surface Pro comes with 65 percent of its advertised storage capacity available, 83GB.
 
2013-12-10 10:14:29 AM
Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?
 
2013-12-10 10:14:40 AM
The Xbone's OS is on the HD?  That's definitely different from the previous consoles.
I always considered it a benefit to the 360 that even if the HD failed (which they are prone to do) the console was still usable.
 
2013-12-10 10:15:24 AM
If you want something where you install every game to a hard drive, you want a PC. That's what that thing is.
 
2013-12-10 10:15:55 AM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


That's just asking for trouble. Windows loves to keep undeletable ever growing folders. I've seen winsxs get to 10 GB by itself.
 
2013-12-10 10:16:16 AM

WalkingCarpet: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2026692/microsoft-surface-pro-64gb-co me s-with-only-23gb-of-available-storage-space.html

Microsoft Surface Pro 64GB comes with only 23GB of available storage space

Microsoft confirmed the $899 64GB model of the Surface Pro will only have 23GB available for use out of the box - that's just under 36 percent of the advertised capacity. The rest is taken up by the full Windows 8 Pro install, preinstalled apps and a recovery partition, which make up for the 41GB occupied. The 128GB model of the Surface Pro comes with 65 percent of its advertised storage capacity available, 83GB.


Surface RT comes out at taking up only about 11 GB out of 32 GB with 8.1, which includes Office. You'd think that a more cut down OS like the one of the Xbox would be a little slimmer. Of course, a lot of the loss could be from the loss of capacity due to formatting loss and the binary and decimal differences in measuring drives.

Still, I wish Microsoft had made the drive user upgradable like Sony did. With digital downloads, you really need upgradability now. Although I have heard that Microsoft is planning on supporting external HDDs in the future.
 
2013-12-10 10:17:27 AM
I thought we were ok with this since they are adding support for external drives in a future patch?
 
rpm
2013-12-10 10:18:22 AM

I Like Bread: Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?


What HDD manufacturers call gigabytes are gigabytes.

IIRC, memory and such is now measured in gibibytes.
 
2013-12-10 10:20:48 AM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


Good God, man, I hope that's Server Core! We've been giving our Server 2008 R2 servers 100gig and they feel tight. I installed a new SQL '12 on 2008 R2 from scratch just the other day and it's sitting at 131 gig used right now.
 
2013-12-10 10:21:37 AM

Meethos: I thought we were ok with this since they are adding support for external drives in a future patch?


That's going to come out with the waterproof patch, right?
 
2013-12-10 10:21:49 AM
Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?
 
2013-12-10 10:21:56 AM

Meethos: I thought we were ok with this since they are adding support for external drives in a future patch?


That's fine and all but it's yet another thing to hook up, another thing to plug in, etc.  My TV already looks like a bluetooth headset wearing douchebag with that giant Kinect on top of it.  Would much rather just swap out the hard drive for one with more capacity.
 
2013-12-10 10:23:53 AM
Maybe the X Box One comes with a secret copy of MS Office hidden on it.
 
2013-12-10 10:25:08 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Shut up, Ballmer, you cock.
 
2013-12-10 10:25:32 AM

WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.


What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.
 
2013-12-10 10:27:27 AM

logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.


I located a few. Note that he stated the drive to be a "hybrid".
 
2013-12-10 10:27:29 AM

logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.


Yeah, me too.
 
2013-12-10 10:29:59 AM

rpm: gigabytes


A gigabyte is 2^30, as opposed to a billion, which is 10^9.
 
2013-12-10 10:30:05 AM

logggur: What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.


Not an SSD but a hybrid SSD:

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Solid-Hybrid-2-5-Inch-ST1000LM014/dp/B 00 B99JUBQ/
 
2013-12-10 10:30:18 AM

logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.


Gotta be a hybrid - if not Ill take 100,000 and retire early reselling them.
 
2013-12-10 10:30:22 AM
if you're going to download games they'll probably be on "Da Cloud!  Da Cloud!"
www.singlespeedstella.com
so you can probably just redownload the local content for any game you already own.  Probably just like how STEAM already works.
 
2013-12-10 10:30:51 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right?


So I upload all of my games to the cloud?  And when I launch Forza, it then downloads the 8GB+ from the cloud to launch it every time?  That sounds incredibly stupid.
 
2013-12-10 10:31:36 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Hey, if you feel like waiting for a 20-30 GB download to install before you start playing a game that's fine, but I like having everything on a huge drive.
 
2013-12-10 10:33:11 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Hey you take your facts out of this discussion mister. This is about how much we hate the Xbone, or how much we love the PS4, or how both suck and real gamers only play on PC. Your reasonable explaination has no place here.
 
2013-12-10 10:34:23 AM
I don't plan on owning (or playing) any xbone games. I'll probably get a ps4 when they're $150 used at Gamestop and there's a big catalog available. But Microsoft can blow me.
 
2013-12-10 10:35:47 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Purposely gimping a system to force people to use a "feature" is full retard.
 
2013-12-10 10:39:16 AM

ReverendJasen: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right?

So I upload all of my games to the cloud?  And when I launch Forza, it then downloads the 8GB+ from the cloud to launch it every time?  That sounds incredibly stupid.


No - I'm sure it catalogs your games and keeps the most used ones on your HDD. So you'll only have to spend hours downloading a massive game from the cloud, say, once a week.
 
2013-12-10 10:39:43 AM
The S.M.A.R.T. feature of the SATA drive of my secondary gaming computer warns that a failure is imminent. Fortunately, my secondary computer is not an XBone, and I am able to purchase and install a replacement drive.
 
2013-12-10 10:40:27 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Installing your games on your own machine: deliberate sabatoge.

I hope they aren't paying you a lot, you aren't good at this.
 
2013-12-10 10:40:49 AM

ReverendJasen: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right?

So I upload all of my games to the cloud?  And when I launch Forza, it then downloads the 8GB+ from the cloud to launch it every time?  That sounds incredibly stupid.


I was thinking the same thing.
 
2013-12-10 10:40:53 AM
Ah, Microsoft. You can't even really say they've got their heads up their asses anymore; it's becoming more and more apparent that the entire company is just a giant, fractal asshole. As large or small a chunk of the company you want to look at - yup, still an asshole.
 
2013-12-10 10:42:57 AM

Ned Stark: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

Installing your games on your own machine: deliberate sabatoge.

I hope they aren't paying you a lot, you aren't good at this.


We really need to get over this need to accuse everyone who disagrees with us of being a paid schill.  You have every reason to be upset about the small storage drive on the xbox one but you make yourself look stupid when you post things like this.
 
2013-12-10 10:43:04 AM

logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.


Hybrid. They typically have about 8 gigs of flash drive and the rest is a standard hard drive. They have faster access than a typical HD, but not the same speed as an SSD. I prefer having a separate SSD for my OS and programs, and using a standard HD for data.
 
2013-12-10 10:43:22 AM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


It's not the OS is taking up 100+Gb is that the system is reserving 100+Gb.   That'll be swap space (if not outright swap than 'an area to dump active memory to allow for task switching when playing a game'), restore images, firmware download space and indeed the OS itself.   Considering Microsoft can't predict the future and how much space the OS will balloon to over the years (and lets be honest it is going to grow) 100GB sounds pretty sensible.

That the end user can't say "balls to it" and either replace disk outright or supplement it with a USB pack is rather dense.  Sure a blank disk = no OS in this case but even Apple have it that a Mac with a blank disk will bring up the NIC and start downloading its restore image from the mothership; I see no reason Microsoft's flagship console shouldn't be able to do that.

Also you might want to give the servers 50Gb flat, at the very least it's an extra 3Gb of 'ohh shiat' space should it start doing something... daft.  Like a process gets really god damn chatty with its logfile that just has to be on the boot drive.  Might mean the difference between catching the bastard and the box falling over.
 
2013-12-10 10:43:43 AM
ITT: People with little to no understanding of how Games work suddenly outraged by install sizes.
 
2013-12-10 10:44:54 AM

sammyk: I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


Speaking from experience with server 2008, that's a terrible idea.
 
2013-12-10 10:46:45 AM
Meanwhile on my PC....
 
2013-12-10 10:48:03 AM

WalkingCarpet: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2026692/microsoft-surface-pro-64gb-co me s-with-only-23gb-of-available-storage-space.html

Microsoft Surface Pro 64GB comes with only 23GB of available storage space

Microsoft confirmed the $899 64GB model of the Surface Pro will only have 23GB available for use out of the box - that's just under 36 percent of the advertised capacity. The rest is taken up by the full Windows 8 Pro install, preinstalled apps and a recovery partition, which make up for the 41GB occupied. The 128GB model of the Surface Pro comes with 65 percent of its advertised storage capacity available, 83GB.


That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.
 
2013-12-10 10:51:04 AM

The Slush: sammyk: I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

Speaking from experience with server 2008, that's a terrible idea.


It was kinda of dumb back in the days of NT4 as well but shhh... it's a lesson we all have to learn the hardway.
 
2013-12-10 10:52:14 AM

fang06554: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

That's just asking for trouble. Windows loves to keep undeletable ever growing folders. I've seen winsxs get to 10 GB by itself.


Well aware of the issue. There is a cleanup tool that gets rid of the SP files. We typically don't deploy an OS until there is at least SP1 as well so it limits the exposure. it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition
 
2013-12-10 10:53:51 AM
I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!
 
2013-12-10 10:54:58 AM

Mad_Radhu: WalkingCarpet: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2026692/microsoft-surface-pro-64gb-co me s-with-only-23gb-of-available-storage-space.html

Microsoft Surface Pro 64GB comes with only 23GB of available storage space

Microsoft confirmed the $899 64GB model of the Surface Pro will only have 23GB available for use out of the box - that's just under 36 percent of the advertised capacity. The rest is taken up by the full Windows 8 Pro install, preinstalled apps and a recovery partition, which make up for the 41GB occupied. The 128GB model of the Surface Pro comes with 65 percent of its advertised storage capacity available, 83GB.

Surface RT comes out at taking up only about 11 GB out of 32 GB with 8.1, which includes Office. You'd think that a more cut down OS like the one of the Xbox would be a little slimmer. Of course, a lot of the loss could be from the loss of capacity due to formatting loss and the binary and decimal differences in measuring drives.

Still, I wish Microsoft had made the drive user upgradable like Sony did. With digital downloads, you really need upgradability now. Although I have heard that Microsoft is planning on supporting external HDDs in the future.


It's BS to use a 500GB drive in this day and age to begin with. Would a 2TB drive really add all that much to the cost?
 
2013-12-10 10:58:35 AM
20 games "at once".  There is never I time I feel the need to have 20 games available to play so this isn't really an issue.
 
2013-12-10 10:59:40 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


You can't install games to Skydrive. Don't be daft. Skydrive is for photos, videos and music.
 
2013-12-10 11:00:29 AM

jayhawk88: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

Good God, man, I hope that's Server Core! We've been giving our Server 2008 R2 servers 100gig and they feel tight. I installed a new SQL '12 on 2008 R2 from scratch just the other day and it's sitting at 131 gig used right now.


We keep our OS drives clean. SQL and app installs go to the D:\ drive. I wont certify the build for production if the DBA or app guy tries to install anything on the OS partition. Citrix is the exception. We haven't determined that standard yet.

There is still no reason I can think of that a game console OS needs to be over 100GB. Even reserving space for future upgrades and patches is a dumb engineering solution.
 
2013-12-10 11:01:25 AM

RexTalionis: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

You can't install games to Skydrive. Don't be daft. Skydrive is for photos, videos and music.


Also game saves - but game saves (maybe up to 50 megs) aren't that huge compared to a 30-40 gig game install.
 
2013-12-10 11:02:12 AM

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


That's what you'll have to do.  Sucks really. I have hundreds of 360 games and will, on occasion, rummage thru the old ones, pull out something and spend a 1/2 hour playing just for old times sake.  If I have to go thru the entire re-install every time, which is lengthier than it should be right now, I won't be doing that anymore.
 
2013-12-10 11:04:08 AM

fawlty: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

That's what you'll have to do.  Sucks really. I have hundreds of 360 games and will, on occasion, rummage thru the old ones, pull out something and spend a 1/2 hour playing just for old times sake.  If I have to go thru the entire re-install every time, which is lengthier than it should be right now, I won't be doing that anymore.


You could just, you know, use a computer instead.
 
2013-12-10 11:04:09 AM

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


Well, yeah. Like on the PS3, I currently play GTAV, Madden, Last of Us, and Dust, and that's about it. I was thinking of reinstalling Grand Theft Horsey for another playthrough, but it certainly didn't need to sit on my console unused for the past year.
 
2013-12-10 11:07:37 AM

sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition


I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.
 
2013-12-10 11:09:11 AM
Or you could, you know, delete a game once you're done with it.
 
2013-12-10 11:10:39 AM

the money is in the banana stand: You could just, you know, use a computer instead.


Nope.
 
2013-12-10 11:11:40 AM

ReverendJasen: I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


You can tell it's Bespoke Enterprise software by the scream of "why do you have to install to C:\ you heap of shiat?" coming from the IT department usually followed by various quantities of swearing as it conflicts with other business critical software that has to be on the machine in question.
 
2013-12-10 11:11:47 AM

RexTalionis: RexTalionis: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

You can't install games to Skydrive. Don't be daft. Skydrive is for photos, videos and music.

Also game saves - but game saves (maybe up to 50 megs) aren't that huge compared to a 30-40 gig game install.


Game saves can get pretty large. I remember my Dragon Age save games being like 4MB each, and almost 100 per character (3 characters made). Over a gig there.

And patches/DLC. Those will push games to 50-60GB by the end.
 
2013-12-10 11:16:38 AM
I have forza and DR3 installed. Loving the forza.

Can I sell the DR3? I just doubt I'm going to be able to get into it. Fact is these modern shooters with a zillion options are just beyond me. I'll probably end up getting one of those bundles with all the classic games when it comes out. Oh, and make fun of me - I just bought peggle 2, which I will enjoy the everloving hell out of.
 
2013-12-10 11:17:14 AM

ReverendJasen: sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition

I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


I work for a large bank that you hate. Everything we do is enterprise. We almost never have space issues with 36GB on w2k8 servers. Don't install your app on C:\ and it shouldn't be a problem.
 
2013-12-10 11:26:43 AM
Damn I thought a 16M flash card on my C64 was huge.
 
2013-12-10 11:28:06 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right?


That's the worst form of upselling I've ever heard.  I presume Microsoft will pay me a stipend for my ISP subscription then?  No?
I'm sure our fellow gamers deployed overseas will love to hear that brilliant idea.

sure haven't: Or you could, you know, delete a game once you're done with it.


Oh, eff all that.  The workaround could be me jerking off to pictures of boobies for all I care.  The fact that a giganormous OEM is putting the burden on the user to overcome a limitation that shouldn't exist today due to bad design is downright embarrassing.
 
2013-12-10 11:29:35 AM

rpm: I Like Bread: Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?

What HDD manufacturers call gigabytes are gigabytes.

IIRC, memory and such is now measured in gibibytes.


Hard Drives:  Gigabyte = 1000 bytes
Memory:  Gigabyte = 1024 bytes
 
2013-12-10 11:33:02 AM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


And when is Microsoft going to start charging for this unlimited free storage?
 
2013-12-10 11:38:32 AM

dragonchild: Oh, eff all that. The workaround could be me jerking off to pictures of boobies for all I care. The fact that a giganormous OEM is putting the burden on the user to overcome a limitation that shouldn't exist today due to bad design is downright embarrassing.


Is this a new attitude due to larger HD's being available? You keep all games you've ever installed? why?? Do people think they should just be able to install forever??

Even now on my 360, once I'm done with a game, I uninstall it. Because why not? I have a 250gb hard drive, it's not even close to like 70gb taken, and I uninstall any game I'm done with. Do you keep apps on your phone when you don't use them anymore? Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?
 
2013-12-10 11:41:09 AM
I haven't seen it mentioned yet but the "500GB" hard drive in the PS4 you only get to use 409GB.

Also you can not uninstall the Playroom game, which takes up 500MB.

/PS4 owner
 
2013-12-10 11:45:56 AM

Tyrosine: logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.

Hybrid. They typically have about 8 gigs of flash drive and the rest is a standard hard drive. They have faster access than a typical HD, but not the same speed as an SSD. I prefer having a separate SSD for my OS and programs, and using a standard HD for data.


As long as you get a good Hybrid that has decent logic/performance in cache hits, you generally get very similar performance in most ways to an SSD, and the cost increase compared to an old style HHD is fairly nominal nowadays, so I doubt I would get a non-hybrid drive for most purposes nowadays.
 
2013-12-10 11:47:46 AM

sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?


Well, that escalated quickly.
 
2013-12-10 11:55:54 AM

dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.


Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?
 
2013-12-10 12:02:10 PM

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


I don't quite trust games which I download from an app store or similar places to be around forever, so I download them and leave them on the hard drive. So yes, I have a version of Catan back from 2009 on my xbox.
 
2013-12-10 12:07:45 PM

Vaneshi: The Slush: sammyk: I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

Speaking from experience with server 2008, that's a terrible idea.

It was kinda of dumb back in the days of NT4 as well but shhh... it's a lesson we all have to learn the hardway.


Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.
 
2013-12-10 12:10:06 PM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


As a vendor, we won't touch 2012, but for 2008 we recommend a minimum of 50gb for the system drive. Windows is currently up to 35gb fully patched and it grows larger every month.
 
2013-12-10 12:11:32 PM
MicroSoft surely can make big, slow and bad "operating systems". Didn't we know that already?
 
2013-12-10 12:20:10 PM
Who the fark presumes they know more about the -average- gaming habits of every online Xbox owner than Microsoft?  They farking collect the data.  In this case, you can be damned sure that they have data showing most players don't consistently use 20+ games.
 
2013-12-10 12:28:33 PM

DeathByGeekSquad: Who the fark presumes they know more about the -average- gaming habits of every online Xbox owner than Microsoft?  They farking collect the data.  In this case, you can be damned sure that they have data showing most players don't consistently use 20+ games.


I was using 20+ games before it was cool.
 
2013-12-10 12:36:08 PM
While at this point it can't Microsoft did come out saying they will support external storage.  If in 6 months you still can't use it then get the pitchforks.  (Since the console seems about 6 months earlier then it should have been released)  Sony has come out saying you can swap the HD but they had no plans to allow external storage.  While they can reverse course it makes sense to upgrade the drive since you don't know if you will ever be able to add external storage.
 
2013-12-10 12:39:26 PM
sure haven't:
Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?

Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.
 
2013-12-10 12:41:05 PM

xria: Tyrosine: logggur: WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.

What 1TB SSD did you get for $100? Seriously, I want one.

Hybrid. They typically have about 8 gigs of flash drive and the rest is a standard hard drive. They have faster access than a typical HD, but not the same speed as an SSD. I prefer having a separate SSD for my OS and programs, and using a standard HD for data.

As long as you get a good Hybrid that has decent logic/performance in cache hits, you generally get very similar performance in most ways to an SSD, and the cost increase compared to an old style HHD is fairly nominal nowadays, so I doubt I would get a non-hybrid drive for most purposes nowadays.


I just built a new system and the cost of a 1TB HD and 128GB SSD was about $30 less than the hybrid drive. Had the cost been better I would have kept the SSD, but replaced the HD with the hybrid. It really depends on your needs. The hybrid gives you fast access to the subset of files you use the most, while the rest are at regular HD speed. Even if the price had been the same for the hybrid, an additional $50 for the SSD gives me fast access to 128 gigs of files rather than 8.
 
2013-12-10 12:41:12 PM

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.
 
2013-12-10 12:42:13 PM

LongWindedMute: Ah, Microsoft. You can't even really say they've got their heads up their asses anymore; it's becoming more and more apparent that the entire company is just a giant, fractal asshole. As large or small a chunk of the company you want to look at - yup, still an asshole.


You magnificent bastard. I just woke up my kids laughing at that.
 
2013-12-10 12:42:16 PM
scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

www.gamersschmamers.com
 
2013-12-10 12:46:49 PM

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?
Don'tcha know all the leet boys are using oil now?

cdn.pugetsystems.com
 
2013-12-10 12:47:03 PM

GlassWalker: Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.


Ned Stark: ...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.


So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.
 
2013-12-10 12:47:31 PM

sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?


Super Stardust has been on my PS3 since the day I got the system in June 2008 and it ain't goin anywhere.  could probably do with uninstalling RDR, Vanquish and MGR at this point though.

I think the general points have been addressed already:

- yes, that size is a bit small considering games are getting into the 30GB+ range and these consoles will be around a while if the last gen is any indication, and with a much bigger digital push than was had 2006-2009
- no, it isn't waterboarding to uninstall your infrequent games to make space for GTA6 or wait an hour reinstalling things you haven't used in a while
- yes, an option to install more space would be nice for those users who want to do it, acknowledging that many of these users will be the hardcore nerd game hoarders and not grandma
- no, many gamers will not encounter this limitation if they just want the latest CoD and Just Dance and Madden, unless games are 200GB in 2016
- yes, it's obnoxious if you have bandwidth caps but that's something that gaming is always butting up against
- no, it isn't helpful to tell people to get a PC when they've clearly already chosen not to do that
- yes, you are the only person in this thread who REALLY knows the correct answer and everyone else is an idiot


That should cover it. If you can reconcile these facts with your own gaming habits and expected usage, you can easily avoid frustration. However, don't be surprised to discover that there are many games with very different expectations and usage habits, and a tone-deaf attitude to people who play a lot more/fewer games than you and prefer to install em all/only have one at a time results in a lot of posts saying "well for  me i only want X, Y and Z so that should  obviouslybe enough for everyone and this is/n't an issue"

I think Microsoft would have enough 360 telematics to make an educated decision about the needs of the many, and you might just be an edge case. it isn't a crime

/very glad that I was able to slap a 1 TB drive in my 120 GB PS3 a while ago
 
2013-12-10 12:49:31 PM
There are going to be 20 games for the Xbone, much less more than that???
 
2013-12-10 12:50:07 PM
BTW my post is not directed to  sure haven't,except the bit about games since 2008. It sort of comes across that way, sorry.
 
2013-12-10 12:51:17 PM

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


What's the brown stuff on your walls?
 
2013-12-10 12:51:24 PM

sammyk: I work for a large bank that you hate.


The bank that I hate?  Hmmm.  Is it based in Charlotte?  I used to work for them too, a little over a decade ago.  Had me running all over S. FL doing hardware support for the servers and workstations.  Didn't hate them back then. :)
 
2013-12-10 12:52:14 PM
croesius: LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?

Look closer at my rig and you will see the Corsair water cooler on the CPU.
 
2013-12-10 12:53:31 PM

TheSlothAlive: What's the brown stuff on your walls?


Those would be brown "black out" drapes over the window.
 
2013-12-10 12:54:03 PM
sure haven't:
So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.


Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something. 

A 4 TB external drive is 130 bucks. It'll be cheaper in a couple years when I need it. 

On the other hand, if I have filled my HDDs with 1000 games or whatever then, yeah, some deleting may be in order. But 1000 games is a lot crazier than 20. Particularly when you're talking about downloading another 40 GB. Even at decent broadband speeds, that's gonna take a while. 

If the One could hold 100 games, I doubt we'd be having this discussion. Even 50 would probably be fine. But using a 500 GB HDD when they could have slapped a 4 TB in there for another $50 is a design flaw.
 
2013-12-10 12:58:32 PM

GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.


And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".
 
2013-12-10 01:00:05 PM
I wonder what all those USB ports are for?

\AMD chipset?
\\future allowance for external drives?
\\\unpossible!
 
2013-12-10 01:04:56 PM

sure haven't: GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.

And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".


I think the disconnect is that it seems like you're saying it's reasonable to juggle 20 game slots and that's what a lot of folks are hrumphing about.

I'd probably agree with your stronger point, though - that HDD space is cheap enough that we may as well just never uninstall anything and upgrade space as needed. 

I mean, that's how I treat my email. I haven't deleted an email since I got my Gmail account.I have like 22,000 Facebook notifications in there that I can't think of a single reason I'd ever need to look at again, but there's plenty of space so, whatever, let em sit.
 
2013-12-10 01:09:01 PM

Beerguy: croesius: LMAO, you are using an AIR cooled "pc"?

Look closer at my rig and you will see the Corsair water cooler on the CPU.


;D

It's more fun pretending to be the blindly one-upping PC sort than to acknowledge facts.
 
2013-12-10 01:14:21 PM

GlassWalker: sure haven't: GlassWalker: Well, either buy a new one or uninstall something.

And there is my entire point which people have been saying makes no sense. That is what I was saying this entire time. But was met with "I don't uninstall, hrumph".

I think the disconnect is that it seems like you're saying it's reasonable to juggle 20 game slots and that's what a lot of folks are hrumphing about.

I'd probably agree with your stronger point, though - that HDD space is cheap enough that we may as well just never uninstall anything and upgrade space as needed. 

I mean, that's how I treat my email. I haven't deleted an email since I got my Gmail account.I have like 22,000 Facebook notifications in there that I can't think of a single reason I'd ever need to look at again, but there's plenty of space so, whatever, let em sit.


You also have to understand who typically plays a console. These are mostly casual gamers and people with limited time on their hands to play. When they want to play, they want gratification immediately. Hell, even a long loading time, intro, or splash-screen could be too much to bear. They are not going to want to sit through a game to install and download the patches and what not. To think the majority of their consumer base is really going to manage the games they have on their system is ludicrous.

What I think is more reasonable to believe is that they are intentionally doing this and will release HDD expansion for a market Premium. Most buyers, particularly console gamers, are extremely frugal. Where at the time of buying they wouldn't have sprung for the model with more storage capacity or the upgrade, when they become frustrated they can't storage anything else, they will be vulnerable and willing to pay almost anything to fix it. Had they released this right away, they would not have been able to get away with this so easily. So, I am thinking this is a business decision to drive profit by exploiting the typical knuckle-dragging console peasant.
 
2013-12-10 01:19:16 PM

fang06554: winsxs


Explorer doesn't account for hardlinks when calculating drive space, so your WinSXS folder isn't actually 10GB...

So... there's that...
 
2013-12-10 01:30:35 PM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


This was my gut reaction.  I always assumed that one of the reasons that a traditional Windows installation was so bloated was to account for the inclusion of various device drivers.  Maybe that assumption was incorrect.  Anyway, I wouldn't think that having 100s of device drivers "just in case" would be a problem for a gaming system OS.

My secondary reaction, and this goes with the OS being on the hard drive, was that maybe people can reverse engineer the xbone OS and make it available for use on a PC.  I'd finally get a version of NCAA Football/Madden produced this century, a non-gimped version of Tiger Woods, RDR, etc.
 
2013-12-10 01:37:03 PM

sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.


No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.
 
2013-12-10 01:38:16 PM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


I hope you love to clean up your WinSXS folder.
I've seen older installs of Windows 7 with nothing but Office and Visual Studio (and no personal files at all) run a 120GB drive out of room.

Anyway, this should not in any way be surprising. Those systems shipped with an inadequate amount of disk space for the type of content they're expected to use. I don't think it's a big deal for my Surface Pro to only have ~80something GB of space free on its main drive because that's pretty much infinity of PDFs, JPEGs and Word documents, but it's a much bigger deal for a system where every gamer knows that mainstream hit games are going to eat 40GB of space between binaries and textures and random multimedia assets. The solution is going to be storage expansion, either by adding an external drive or upgrading the launch model drive. Chances are in three years or so a 1TB SSD will be affordable enough to be appealing and it wouldn't shock me at all if there's an intermediate Xbox One.1 that moves to that sort of storage. In the meantime, gamers who need more space will just upgrade their drives.
 
2013-12-10 01:39:03 PM
I keep on hearing all this "cloud, cloud, cloud' in the discussion.  Have fun re-downloading all that content and then getting hit by Comcast's monthly bandwidth limits (or paying the extra $$).

I got into that bad habit on Steam - pulling down games as I was interested in them and that (along with streaming) was a reason we ended up changing services.  It's all and good that everything is readily available - till you have to pay an extra $10 per 50 GB
 
2013-12-10 01:43:52 PM

fawlty: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

That's what you'll have to do.  Sucks really. I have hundreds of 360 games and will, on occasion, rummage thru the old ones, pull out something and spend a 1/2 hour playing just for old times sake.  If I have to go thru the entire re-install every time, which is lengthier than it should be right now, I won't be doing that anymore.


I can't fathom why anyone would keep a game longer than a year, so as a PS4 user I won't even make fun of this "limitation" on the Xbox.   I'd love to download games onto the Playstation, since it's easier to go back and forth, but then there's no trade in value.  And since games in 2014 will be much better than games in 2013, why bother keeping them?  NHL 94 is the exception, not the rule.
 
2013-12-10 01:44:24 PM

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.
 
2013-12-10 01:46:58 PM

Xavier99: I keep on hearing all this "cloud, cloud, cloud' in the discussion.  Have fun re-downloading all that content and then getting hit by Comcast's monthly bandwidth limits (or paying the extra $$).

I got into that bad habit on Steam - pulling down games as I was interested in them and that (along with streaming) was a reason we ended up changing services.  It's all and good that everything is readily available - till you have to pay an extra $10 per 50 GB


We just upgraded our internet to unlimited for the same reason. Between my downloading of games and my son running youtube 24/7 we were chewing through our 120BG/month by week 2.
 
2013-12-10 01:56:57 PM

sure haven't: GlassWalker: Yes, I install once and forget about it.

Having to uninstall something is a sign something is wrong. It means either I need a new HDD, or something's gotta go. At some point, that balance tips to reasonable, but for me 20 games isn't that limit.

Then again, I game on PC generally, so it'll take a while to fill up 9 TB.

Ned Stark: ...yes? You can get a TB for under a hundred bucks. Storage is cheap as chips.

So what happens when you fill your hard drive? ...you just buy a new one??

I am really having a hard time understanding why someone would complain about limited hard drive space, and then just not uninstall things ever. Even if you're done using it.

Forgive me, I've never run across this reasoning before this point in my entire 32 years on this earth. There are several people in this thread who just think they should be able to just install until the cows come home. Install every game/program ever. Just install it all. And if you run out of room... that means... something is wrong with the HD/manufacturer?

...I'm sorry guys, I can't wrap my head around it. That concept is just so... weird. It's like saying I should be able to load up my car with anything. Strap tubs and tubs of water to the roof. If it gets too heavy, well there's something wrong with the car. Time to buy a new one.


A quick count reveals I have 32 games installed, that's just the Steam stuff. Not to mention music, movies, tv shows, UFC fights and other stuff I've forgotten about. You are forgetting, or intentionally leaving out the fact that this space will also be used by such media, DLC's, mandatory patches to the OS etc.
Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.

PS4 allows you to replace a drive, many already have. Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.
 
2013-12-10 01:57:02 PM
LL316:I can't fathom why anyone would keep a game longer than a year, so as a PS4 user I won't even make fun of this "limitation" on the Xbox.   I'd love to download games onto the Playstation, since it's easier to go back and forth, but then there's no trade in value.  And since games in 2014 will be much better than games in 2013, why bother keeping them?  NHL 94 is the exception, not the rule.

What about games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, HALO, The Witcher, Gears of War, etc? You don't like to replay the entire series occasionally?

I'm going through Mass Effect again right now and, yeah, the first one is kinda cruddy compared to the newer games (graphics wise, anyway.) But if I didn't keep it, I'd be missing that whole first part of the story.
 
2013-12-10 01:57:57 PM
Well, the good news is you won't actually own the games. You just get to play them until Microsoft says you can't anymore.
 
2013-12-10 02:01:49 PM

Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.


Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is we really want the "just work" philosophy in consoles, not the "do I need to buy an external HDD?  How big should it be?  Which models does it supoprt?" and etc frustrations...it's not a gripe that's out in left field...it's perfectly reasonable demand given the history of console gaming.
 
2013-12-10 02:03:16 PM

srhp29: 20 games "at once".  There is never I time I feel the need to have 20 games available to play so this isn't really an issue.


Sorry, we keep forgetting that the world revolves around you and what you want.
 
2013-12-10 02:05:17 PM

ReverendJasen: sammyk: I work for a large bank that you hate.

The bank that I hate?  Hmmm.  Is it based in Charlotte?  I used to work for them too, a little over a decade ago.  Had me running all over S. FL doing hardware support for the servers and workstations.  Didn't hate them back then. :)


I don't hate the paychecks, or working from home for that matter.
 
2013-12-10 02:06:20 PM

BumpInTheNight: Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.


Your approved change request and full backout plan, where is it?
 
2013-12-10 02:09:19 PM

CheatCommando: sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.

No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.


Touch screens and accelerometers need nothing more than drivers. A couple MB tops.
 
2013-12-10 02:09:44 PM

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


upload.wikimedia.org

Mines got more storage than yours.  Just saying.
 
2013-12-10 02:11:01 PM

likefunbutnot: sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.

I hope you love to clean up your WinSXS folder.
I've seen older installs of Windows 7 with nothing but Office and Visual Studio (and no personal files at all) run a 120GB drive out of room.

Anyway, this should not in any way be surprising. Those systems shipped with an inadequate amount of disk space for the type of content they're expected to use. I don't think it's a big deal for my Surface Pro to only have ~80something GB of space free on its main drive because that's pretty much infinity of PDFs, JPEGs and Word documents, but it's a much bigger deal for a system where every gamer knows that mainstream hit games are going to eat 40GB of space between binaries and textures and random multimedia assets. The solution is going to be storage expansion, either by adding an external drive or upgrading the launch model drive. Chances are in three years or so a 1TB SSD will be affordable enough to be appealing and it wouldn't shock me at all if there's an intermediate Xbox One.1 that moves to that sort of storage. In the meantime, gamers who need more space will just upgrade their drives.


If you install office or VS on a server please quit the business.
 
2013-12-10 02:14:19 PM

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is ...


This is the only part that actually surprises me. This was always a feature of consoles I couldn't argue with, and owned consoles for that very reason. The console makers have jumped the shark tho. PC gaming is now in many ways more convenient and easier than a console. This is pants on head retarded. When I see these arguments made I can't help but think that it's either buyer's remorse or Stockholm Syndrome.

/No MS doesn't really beat you because they love you
//They just love your money
///Shut up and pay 5 times market price for a similar size drive because it's MS approved, KNAVE!
 
2013-12-10 02:24:26 PM
I just want to plug in the game cartridge and instantly play. Having a hdd for game patches, save games, configs, downloaded games, etc is fine, but when I want tto play on a console I want it to be instant.
 
2013-12-10 02:25:00 PM

WalkingCarpet: I put a 1TB Seagate hybrid SSD drive in my PS4 the instant I got it, couldn't have been any easier, $100 on Amazon.

If the upper limit is 362GB that means the three games I have for my One, DR3, Ryse and Forza 5, take up 23% of my available space less than a month into ownership.

That kind of sucks.


I was contemplating an upgrade immediately, but decided to hold off.  I guess I'll upgrade when it gets filled up.
 
2013-12-10 02:30:47 PM
 
2013-12-10 02:31:47 PM

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is ...


Exactly this. Consoles are in the process of killing the golden goose. The reason I bought an XBOX was that I was tired of needing an upgrade or hassle whenever I got a new game. Xbox 360 worked pretty good. I could even skip updates if desired, as I don't use XBLive.

GTAV is a significant step in the wrong direction. Not only do I get disk read errors 50% of the time, but the install took forever, and required me to delete things from the HDD for the first time. I sense XB1 will have much more of games like this, where there will be an ordeal before I get to enjoy the game.

I'm sitting this generation out. I'm sure I'll cave in when the prices have dropped quite a bit, but I'm good for now.
 
2013-12-10 02:35:56 PM

sammyk: CheatCommando: sammyk: That's just crazy that a tablet OS needs more storage than a full blown server OS.

No, it's not. Server stuff is simple compared to touch and supporting accelerometers and the like. The days of server OSes being more complicated than client ones are well behind us.

Touch screens and accelerometers need nothing more than drivers. A couple MB tops.


I have never had my hands on the guts of a Surface, but iOS provides a hell of a lot more that driver level support for those.
 
2013-12-10 02:37:19 PM

scalpod: How to upgrade your PS4 hard drive.

How to upgrade your Xbox One hard drive.


From your second link.

" By copying files from your original drive and using their Linux-compatible tool to repartition the new HDD, you can be up and running with more capacity after just a reboot or two"

Because people who complain that a Windows PC is too complex will want to use Linux.
 
2013-12-10 02:38:26 PM

stewbert: I'm sitting this generation out. I'm sure I'll cave in when the prices have dropped quite a bit, but I'm good for now.


Ditto.

I expect within a couple of years consoles will be little more than receivers from the cloud to your display device and an input system. There's a lot of amazing things going on with cloud technology where all the processing (including the graphics processing) is done on the back end and then beamed to users. Virtual PCs and the like. 

When I can dial up a game and play the same way I use Netflix for movies, I'll be super excited. Even if they doubled the XBox Live fee to $120 per year, if I had access to all or most of the games and could play on demand I'd be extremely happy. 

All the tech's in place (or very nearly so), it's just a matter of rolling out gaming as a service.
 
2013-12-10 02:40:17 PM
FarkGrudge:  Bottom-line:  the complaint is we really want the "just work" philosophy in consoles, not the "do I need to buy an external HDD?  How big should it be?  Which models does it supoprt?" and etc frustrations...it's not a gripe that's out in left field...it's perfectly reasonable demand given the history of console gaming.

Well then if you want a next-gen console, the Wii U or PS4 is for you.  Taking the Wii U out for argument's sake, the PS4 has staked out ground as the anti-Xbox One, more focused on what you'd call "traditional" console gaming while the One is all about cramming as much different shiat in their console as humanly possible.

ymmv and all that but I don't like how cluttered everything is.  Everything is a goddamn app.  Want to view an achievement?  Gotta back out of your game and open the Achievements app.  It's annoying.

I also have a bug up my ass about Metro, I just don't like it and it's a little laggy on the One imho.  You'd think that with all that reserved horsepower and disk space for the OS it'd be snappy as hell but it's not.  I really hope Microsoft can trim the fat so to speak and free up a lot of the resources the OS is using for use in the games.  From what I understand that's what's been gimping some of these cross platform games on the One compared to the PS4.  I could be talking out of my ass though.

On the bright side, I thought Ryse was a lot of fun and I'm definitely going to check out Halo Spartan Assault.
 
2013-12-10 02:42:06 PM
When (if) it's added it will use the USB 3.0 port on the unit.  This generation MS hasn't shown an inclination to try to sell you an overpriced HD in a custom enclosure.  Is it possible, of course.  Will MS have brands it recommends for use, probably, will those providers provide "Xbox One certified HD's" you bet your ass, will there be a reason you can't use a standard USB 3 HD, probably not.


Of course this is not the place for a rational discussion.

/sitting out of the next gen for now.
 
2013-12-10 02:42:46 PM

Luse: Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.


Woops sorry, I had meant to say earlier that I find this point here valid. That's why I still only usually buy on physical media. I do not trust Microsoft or anyone to "keep my purchase on record". So in that case I agree not to uninstall.
 
2013-12-10 02:46:16 PM

Vaneshi: BumpInTheNight: Meh when things get tight you just shut it down, open the virtual disks's properties, give it more, boot it, open disk management and expand the partition.

Tada.

Your approved change request and full backout plan, where is it?


I am fortunately in a small & agile enough shop where that plan consists of me going "Odds of this going bad?  None.  Let's do it." :)

/Veeam is my safety net too
 
2013-12-10 02:48:40 PM

sure haven't: Luse: Another reason not to uninstall is I had Dreamfall purchased for the wife. I had uninstalled it, much like you recommend for something else. Now It's not available for download. Essentially, MS stole from me. So yes, FARK uninstalling. There's no reason for it with storage being as cheap as it is.

Woops sorry, I had meant to say earlier that I find this point here valid. That's why I still only usually buy on physical media. I do not trust Microsoft or anyone to "keep my purchase on record". So in that case I agree not to uninstall.


That was actually the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. I was set to buy both PS4 and XBone. Instead, I built a new gaming PC, upgraded the video card in my old one and handed it down to my wife. Now she bugs me to play Xcom, Borderlands 2 and Injustice. The shiat I gotta put up with, I tell ya.
 
2013-12-10 02:49:49 PM

Ravage: I just want to plug in the game cartridge and instantly play. Having a hdd for game patches, save games, configs, downloaded games, etc is fine, but when I want tto play on a console I want it to be instant.


Sorry, that isn't going to happen anymore. Consoles are now PCs. Trust me when I say that when you get one, the pros vastly outweigh the cons. I too was first caught off guard at the 10-15 min install, but then when I played and had minimal load screens I remembered why it's so much more awesome.

Also I have apps on my Ipad that sync to the game I'm playing on my xbox and give me more content, missions, maps, etc. Pretty cool.
 
2013-12-10 02:53:20 PM

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.


I keep hearing this as the main reason people prefer consoles, but as someone who has a PS2, PS3, XBox360 and a PC I don't see the problem. It's not like back in the late 80s /early 90s where you had to memorize a bunch of DOS commands to use a PC. Everything today is plug and play on PCs. I've only had two problems with PC games in the last 10 years and they were taken care of by updating drivers, which PCs do automatically just like consoles (the only difference being you have to  "OK" the update which takes one click of the mouse). I just built a new PC, loaded all my games from Steam, some of which are over 10 years old, and everything worked perfectly.

Memory management? This has always been an issue with consoles depending on how many games you have. Regardless of the platform, if you filled the HD, you filled the HD. You could either pay for an upgrade, delete stuff, or use an external. It's no more (or less) difficult on a PC than an XBox or PS.

I suppose backward compatibility is a bit of an issue for PCs. Games written for DOS may have problems running under windows 7, but the last time I checked you can't play PS2/PS3 games on the PS4, nor 360 games on the XBone.

Is installation the problem? With consoles you plug the console into the power, connect to the TV (you do have to fiddle with your TV inputs usually). PC's are about the same except you need to plug in your mouse and keyboard, I suppose that's complicated if you can't figure out how a USB plug works.

I'm not trying to shiat on consoles (like I said, I own three of them), but let's stop pretending that PCs are complicated. You can certainly customize PCs (far more than any console) and some of the custom rigs are complex, but the average person can pick up a decent gaming rig that will work as well as a console right out of the box, with a HD three times the size as the consoles, and cost less (bought my son an Asus i7 earlier this year for $500).
 
2013-12-10 02:55:38 PM

Luse: Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.


Well now I regret being nice in my previous post. Should've finished reading your comment before responding.

LOL, buying products means taking it without lube. So it's a human rights violation for a company not to provide everyone with 500TB of HD space? Just so neckbeards like "Luse" can install games and leave them on there forever.

People like me don't give a flying f*ck how much space there is. I said it earlier, I have a 360 with 250gb. After almost a year of ownership, I am no where even close to like 30% of it being filled. Enjoy your day being mad that people don't waste their energy being mad about this bullsh*t. 500gb is a massive amount of storage for a console. If you're filling it, you're doing it wrong.
 
2013-12-10 02:55:45 PM

ReverendJasen: sammyk: it's still pretty rare for us to have an issue with 2k8rs boxes on a 36GB partition

I ran ran a 2k8 server on a 36GB drive for years with no issue.  Just redirected or disabled every log I could find and ran Apache/Mysql on a RAID array.  However, that was definitely not an enterprise environment.


You ran apache and mysql on a windows box?  WTF is wrong with you?
 
2013-12-10 02:58:23 PM

Tyrosine: I'm not trying to shiat on consoles (like I said, I own three of them), but let's stop pretending that PCs are complicated. You can certainly customize PCs (far more than any console) and some of the custom rigs are complex, but the average person can pick up a decent gaming rig that will work as well as a console right out of the box, with a HD three times the size as the consoles, and cost less (bought my son an Asus i7 earlier this year for $500).


Don't forget input. 

Keyboard and mouse used to be a barrier to playing on PC, but now Xbox controllers are directly compatible (even wireless, with a cheap adapter) and PS-clones are even cheaper.

I have Assassin's Creed 4 on Steam, and play with my Xbox controller. It's just the same as my 360, but with better graphics.
 
2013-12-10 03:06:13 PM

GlassWalker: Don't forget input.

Keyboard and mouse used to be a barrier to playing on PC, but now Xbox controllers are directly compatible (even wireless, with a cheap adapter) and PS-clones are even cheaper.

I have Assassin's Creed 4 on Steam, and play with my Xbox controller. It's just the same as my 360, but with better graphics.


When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore
 
2013-12-10 03:06:58 PM

OgreMagi: You ran apache and mysql on a windows box? WTF is wrong with you?


I moved it from FreeBSD because I wanted to be able to RDP into it, basically.
All it did was run a vBulletin forum, so I figured worst case, nothing of value could be lost.
 
2013-12-10 03:07:06 PM

sure haven't: Luse: Give me one good reason why MS, in their infinite wisdom wouldn't give their customers the option, other then to fleece them out of more money by releasing an overpriced, under performing "upgrade" in the future? In your 32 years on this planet you've gotten so used to taking it without lube that it is beyond your comprehension that it's wrong.
I'll enjoy the speed and ease of loading whatever I get a wild hair for immediately, you enjoy waiting for the download. Next Gen indeed.

Well now I regret being nice in my previous post. Should've finished reading your comment before responding.

LOL, buying products means taking it without lube. So it's a human rights violation for a company not to provide everyone with 500TB of HD space? Just so neckbeards like "Luse" can install games and leave them on there forever.

People like me don't give a flying f*ck how much space there is. I said it earlier, I have a 360 with 250gb. After almost a year of ownership, I am no where even close to like 30% of it being filled. Enjoy your day being mad that people don't waste their energy being mad about this bullsh*t. 500gb is a massive amount of storage for a console. If you're filling it, you're doing it wrong.


Perhaps read my next response. I've actually owned 2 360's (RROD). My first one was a gift and came with a pitifully small harddrive, don't  recall which. That's also the one that I had to remove Dreamfall from to make room for RDR if memory serves. I've since gotten a 250gb HD from someone that was tossing their RRoD 360. That one seems sufficient for the 360, but certainly not the XBone.

You later said that you can see why someone wouldn't trust MS to keep their purchase history on file. Sorry if I came of douchey however you have people blindly defending MS as if it was their baby daddy. We've had people in this thread link to a simple way you can upgrade the XBone hd, using Linux and obviously against MS recommendations. Those are mental gymnastics that I simply can't fathom.

/Scalpod, thanks for the links. I forwarded them to my Linux Server guys. I haven't heard them laugh like that in a long time.
 
2013-12-10 03:13:02 PM

ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: You ran apache and mysql on a windows box? WTF is wrong with you?

I moved it from FreeBSD because I wanted to be able to RDP into it, basically.
All it did was run a vBulletin forum, so I figured worst case, nothing of value could be lost.


Why would you need to RDP into it?  ssh is the only access tool you ever need.  An OS needs a GUI like a fish needs a banjo.
 
2013-12-10 03:24:00 PM
One of the major complaints I'm reading is: "I don't want to wait for an entire re-install to play my old games."

Good news!  Unlike a PC, both the PS4 and XBONE will let you start playing a game the moment sufficient content is available, and will continue installing in the background as you play it.

I encountered this with my xbone.  I popped in Assassin's Creed IV and the metro tile was labelled "install".  I started it and went off to watch some of the welcome/guide content.  After a minute or so, I received a pop-up notification that AC IV was ready to play ... confused, I checked "My Games" and saw it had an installation progress of 7%, the tile label was now "Play".  So I did, and it played fine!
 
2013-12-10 03:24:48 PM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Uh oh, your internet just went down.  There went all your games :(
 
2013-12-10 03:25:49 PM

Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore


I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.
 
2013-12-10 03:28:16 PM

OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?


Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.
 
2013-12-10 03:29:14 PM
Didn't MS state they were just going to allow external HDDs to be attached via USB?
 
2013-12-10 03:33:25 PM

BumpInTheNight: I am fortunately in a small & agile enough shop where that plan consists of me going "Odds of this going bad?  None.  Let's do it." :)

/Veeam is my safety net too


Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at.  You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails.   That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change.  This will not happen during business hours.  You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"?  That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.

Probably best to just allocate 'silly' amounts of space in the first place... build team generally don't give two shiats how broken something is just so long as it's exactly what was requested on the sheet.
 
2013-12-10 03:35:58 PM

GlassWalker: Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore

I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.


True. I first turned to consoles because I found controllers easier and for my first few months back on a PC I used them. My friends and I play a lot of L4D2 and I was always in last place and could never sight in on jockeys and hunters until I switched to keyboard mouse. I haven't played AC yet, but I find my game play vastly improved on most FPS (CoD, Battlefield, Borderlands, etc.). I'll give AC a try over the holidays and see how it goes.
 
2013-12-10 03:37:20 PM

NicktheSmoker: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

Uh oh, your internet just went down.  There went all your games :(


I don't have a house in this fight as a very casual gamer in that there's not a chance in he'll I'll fill my consoles hard drive. But IF it happened I'll be able to add an external. As for the internet I don't know what it's like everywhere else but in a decade in my house I can count internet outages on the fingers of one hand... And they were usually coupled with a power outage. No, I'm not going to install solar panels or a generator either.
 
2013-12-10 03:41:26 PM

Vaneshi: Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at. You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails. That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change. This will not happen during business hours. You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"? That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.


Ah.  The joys of big corporate environments.
 
2013-12-10 03:41:30 PM

Tyrosine: True. I first turned to consoles because I found controllers easier and for my first few months back on a PC I used them. My friends and I play a lot of L4D2 and I was always in last place and could never sight in on jockeys and hunters until I switched to keyboard mouse. I haven't played AC yet, but I find my game play vastly improved on most FPS (CoD, Battlefield, Borderlands, etc.). I'll give AC a try over the holidays and see how it goes.


If you haven't played any of the series yet, don't judge it too much until the second game. AC is fun, but repetitive, and it's pretty clear they hadn't tested all the kinks in the system. It gets repetitive, but it's worth it for the story alone. 

If you're on a budget, I'd suggest watching the AC game movie on Youtube and then jumping directly into the second game. The expansions are worth it.

AC3 is kind of a step back, but so-so. I played about half of it, then watched the movie.

AC4 is awesome so far, but I'm only a few hours in. It feels a lot like AC2, though, which is a very good thing.
 
2013-12-10 03:42:09 PM
If I wanted to have to install and uninstall crap instead of actually playing the game, I'd just game on the PC.  I don't like that though.
 
2013-12-10 03:43:43 PM

Vaneshi: Yeah that really wouldn't fly at most of the shops I've worked at. You need your approved change request this'll incorporate a full plan for implementation (yes, up to and including pictures), as well as showing the change being performed in the dev environment, you need to indicate where in your implementation plan the breakouts for reverting are and you need a time frame for how long the change will take and how long to revert if the change fails. That's just to get you up to bat.

Actually doing the change will require scheduling it with the NOC and making them aware of any and all alerts their monitors will be getting for the duration of the change. This will not happen during business hours. You miss telling them that NTD2RDB52X9 will alert "Process IIS terminated"? That's back out time and you're back to square one.

Minimum 5 days to tweak that setting assuming nobody veto's your change.

Probably best to just allocate 'silly' amounts of space in the first place... build team generally don't give two shiats how broken something is just so long as it's exactly what was requested on the sheet.


That sounds absolutely suffocating, I used to work in that sort of environment on the networking side and damn glad to be in a genuinely capable environment instead.  I know its a hard to keep unnecessary bureaucratic waste at bay as your data center grows but at some point you gotta let the cowboys fire from the hip once in a while if you ever hope to get anything useful done in a timely manner.

Ugh, being stuck doing one element of a data center ... *shivers*.
 
2013-12-10 03:48:45 PM

ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?

Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.


A true geek stays up half the night perfecting a script to automate a task that saves 15 minutes a day.
 
2013-12-10 03:55:52 PM

Tourney3p0: If I wanted to have to install and uninstall crap instead of actually playing the game, I'd just game on the PC.  I don't like that though.


What kind of PC are you using where you have to uninstall games to play other games? Most new PCs come with a minimum of 1 TB HD which over three times the size of the HD in the current generation of consoles.

Again, not disparaging consoles but can we stop with the hyperbole about PC gaming being complicated because it's not.
 
2013-12-10 04:09:56 PM

Shrugging Atlas: Didn't MS state they were just going to allow external HDDs to be attached via USB?


Sure. They also say they're going to let you see how full your hard drive is someday.
 
2013-12-10 04:16:55 PM

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?
 
2013-12-10 04:17:56 PM

Tax Boy: Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]

What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?


No idea.

/mine are red
 
2013-12-10 04:18:15 PM

basscomm: Shrugging Atlas: Didn't MS state they were just going to allow external HDDs to be attached via USB?

Sure. They also say they're going to let you see how full your hard drive is someday.


That's pretty insane considering that you really do need to know how much room you have in case you want to download games, add-ons, movies, etc.
 
2013-12-10 04:19:41 PM

Tax Boy: What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?


Believe me its only a small subset who unfortunately also show them off like moms do with their kids on facebook.  Many of us prefer to just drop their little ricer rigs down a peg with casual mentions of stuff like "Oh an SSD, how quaint.  Lemmie know when you're rocking a 4xraid0 of them."

Like I just did. :P
 
2013-12-10 04:25:23 PM

Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]


That looks a lot like mine. Liquid cooling FTW. Corsair rocks.

/Currently rocking a total of 8TB in mine. No SSD, though. That's the next upgrade.
 
2013-12-10 04:38:25 PM

Luse: Tax Boy: Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]

What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?

No idea.

/mine are red


Because the 'good' cases are usually riced out in blue LEDs. Maybe they are cheaper, maybe they are more soothing, I dunno. Mine came that way and the LEDs are integral to the fans and I'm too lazy to rewire a case.
 
2013-12-10 04:40:12 PM

Tyrosine: Tourney3p0: If I wanted to have to install and uninstall crap instead of actually playing the game, I'd just game on the PC.  I don't like that though.

What kind of PC are you using where you have to uninstall games to play other games? Most new PCs come with a minimum of 1 TB HD which over three times the size of the HD in the current generation of consoles.

Again, not disparaging consoles but can we stop with the hyperbole about PC gaming being complicated because it's not.


The man has a point.  Just got really into PC gaming as when I was younger I always seemed to never have the right equipment to play a game.  Got a free 1 year old dell from work.  Got a new case, power supply and replaced the bad video card for less than 300 (my office didn't want to keep it even though I said all it needed was a video card) and put steam on it.  It's like gamer heaven.  Games as far as the eye can see.  And I haven't paid more than 20 bucks for a game cause of the sales they always have.  Nice to game with steam cause it doesn't seem like they are trying to suck money directly out of my wallet.
 
2013-12-10 04:42:57 PM

kroonermanblack: Luse: Tax Boy: Beerguy: [scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]


My rig with dual 2TB drives and 256GB SSD laughs at the puny consoles.

[www.gamersschmamers.com image 600x200]

What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?

No idea.

/mine are red

Because the 'good' cases are usually riced out in blue LEDs. Maybe they are cheaper, maybe they are more soothing, I dunno. Mine came that way and the LEDs are integral to the fans and I'm too lazy to rewire a case.


Only reason mine has red is because it came with them. Chose the case as air cooling is more than sufficient, especially with the 3 monster fans the Cooler Master HAF came with. I think they came from a fan boat or a hovercraft or maybe a retired prop from a chopper. Never a heat issue and the case is silent.
 
2013-12-10 04:55:37 PM
I was wondering how long until these stories showed up. And given some games run upwards of 60GB you're looking at 6 or 7 games possibly. And keep in mind just because you save something to the cloud doesn't mean you can play it from the cloud, it has to be sitting on your hard drive.
 
2013-12-10 05:07:12 PM

LasersHurt: If you want something where you install every game to a hard drive, you want a PC. That's what that thing is.


Shhh.... leave the dirty console peasants where they are. Wouldn't want them muddying up the place or staining the furniture with their soiled fingers.
 
2013-12-10 05:44:48 PM

eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!


Don't forget that some multiplayer games don't have a good patcher and will force you to sit around for an hour patching from 1.00 to 1.01 to 1.02 to 1.03 instead of just downloading an all-inclusive patch.

I, for one, am too lazy to manage it.  For an extra $100, I can buy myself another 128GB SSD or a 1-2TB HD and start installing stuff on there.  If I want to play a game, I don't want to wait for 10-30 minutes while 4GB gets downloaded from some server somewhere -- and this assumes I have an unlimited connection (thankfully I do now).  I've been dinged before for going over 60-80GB quote per month downloading ~3-4 games.  LOL
 
2013-12-10 05:49:59 PM

luidprand: sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?

I don't quite trust games which I download from an app store or similar places to be around forever, so I download them and leave them on the hard drive. So yes, I have a version of Catan back from 2009 on my xbox.


On my PC, I had a few Win 3.1/95 and DOS games on my XP rig which died earlier this year.   My dad likes playing Age of Empires 2 and some of my buddies like getting into StarCraft 1 randomly.

So yes, I personally leave everything on my hard drive and simply spend another $100 (one or two games) on a 2-3TB drive for all the games I don't normally play, and throw the newer ones on the SSD that's in my new rig.
 
2013-12-10 06:04:10 PM

OgreMagi: ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?

Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.

A true geek stays up half the night perfecting a script to automate a task that saves 15 minutes a day.


6 hrs to design script / 15 min. = 24 days before you start saving time from the script.
 
2013-12-10 06:23:02 PM
Who gives a shiat there only 3 games out for it worth a fark anyway
 
2013-12-10 06:32:50 PM

SleepingEye: luidprand: sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?

I don't quite trust games which I download from an app store or similar places to be around forever, so I download them and leave them on the hard drive. So yes, I have a version of Catan back from 2009 on my xbox.

On my PC, I had a few Win 3.1/95 and DOS games on my XP rig which died earlier this year.   My dad likes playing Age of Empires 2 and some of my buddies like getting into StarCraft 1 randomly.

So yes, I personally leave everything on my hard drive and simply spend another $100 (one or two games) on a 2-3TB drive for all the games I don't normally play, and throw the newer ones on the SSD that's in my new rig.


I still have Master of Magic, Master of Orion, and Grandest Fleet on my Win XP system. I occasionally play them via DosBox.

Single player, turned based for when you are too lazy to give a fark.
 
2013-12-10 06:34:05 PM

Sim Tree: OgreMagi: ReverendJasen: OgreMagi: Why would you need to RDP into it?

Laziness.
I like Putty, I knew the BSD commandline well enough, but it just took a lot more effort to do things.  I suppose I could have scripted the maintenance tasks I was doing, but that would have required more effort as well.

A true geek stays up half the night perfecting a script to automate a task that saves 15 minutes a day.

6 hrs to design script / 15 min. = 24 days before you start saving time from the script.


I have scripts that have been running via cronjob for several years now.
 
2013-12-10 06:45:36 PM

OgreMagi: SleepingEye: luidprand: sure haven't: dragonchild: sure haven't: Do you think you should be able to install every app ever and just forget it?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Not really. Your response to deleting games was "eff that". I asked why?? Do you install games and just keep them on there for years and years? Think back to games you played in 2008, are they still on your hard drive? You implied that having finite space on a hard drive is a limitation. Do we have endless hard drives floating around that I'm not aware of?

I don't quite trust games which I download from an app store or similar places to be around forever, so I download them and leave them on the hard drive. So yes, I have a version of Catan back from 2009 on my xbox.

On my PC, I had a few Win 3.1/95 and DOS games on my XP rig which died earlier this year.   My dad likes playing Age of Empires 2 and some of my buddies like getting into StarCraft 1 randomly.

So yes, I personally leave everything on my hard drive and simply spend another $100 (one or two games) on a 2-3TB drive for all the games I don't normally play, and throw the newer ones on the SSD that's in my new rig.

I still have Master of Magic, Master of Orion, and Grandest Fleet on my Win XP system. I occasionally play them via DosBox.

Single player, turned based for when you are too lazy to give a fark.


This is a good man here. They're getting dated now though.
 
2013-12-10 06:50:58 PM

CPennypacker: Who gives a shiat there only 3 games out for it worth a fark anyway


Awwww man, you just shiat on peggle 2. I know, that's lame. But I can't wait to go home and play it tonight.
 
2013-12-10 07:17:48 PM
all 20 of those games costs over $1000, not including the $500 cost of the xbone...  wow... just farking wow...  it makes since at about $60 per game, but when you see it like that... just 20 games and a system costs over $1500, its a lot.
 
2013-12-10 07:20:41 PM

rpm: I Like Bread: Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?

What HDD manufacturers call gigabytes are gigabytes.

IIRC, memory and such is now measured in gibibytes.


absolutely incorrect.  Manufacturers label drives as 1 gig = 1000 megs when in fact 1 gig = 1024 megs...  This is the biggest reason why HDD's always have less than their advertised storage space.
 
2013-12-10 07:23:29 PM

Maul555: rpm: I Like Bread: Is that 362 actual gigabytes, or what HDD manufacturers call gigabytes?

What HDD manufacturers call gigabytes are gigabytes.

IIRC, memory and such is now measured in gibibytes.

absolutely incorrect.  Manufacturers label drives as 1 gig = 1000 megs when in fact 1 gig = 1024 megs...  This is the biggest reason why HDD's always have less than their advertised storage space.


None of you are correct.
imgs.xkcd.com

/I still call what the drive makers do sleazy.
 
2013-12-10 07:23:38 PM

OgreMagi: DosBox


Dungeon Keeper was the only old game I've tried to re-play and had to use DosBox for, unless you count Deeper dungeons as another game.
Only strategy game I've ever wanted to play consistently over the years.

Never did get around to trying the newer actual 3d one.  I saw several clones while looking about though.

On a relevant note, I like to keep all games on the HDD.  DVD's and and optical drives have a tendency to not have the best lifespan. HDD's though, as long as they spin up once in a while, last a really long time.
 
2013-12-10 07:25:48 PM

omeganuepsilon: OgreMagi: DosBox

Dungeon Keeper was the only old game I've tried to re-play and had to use DosBox for, unless you count Deeper dungeons as another game.
Only strategy game I've ever wanted to play consistently over the years.

Never did get around to trying the newer actual 3d one.  I saw several clones while looking about though.

On a relevant note, I like to keep all games on the HDD.  DVD's and and optical drives have a tendency to not have the best lifespan. HDD's though, as long as they spin up once in a while, last a really long time.


DK2 was great, especially the whole possession spell.  War for the Overworld looks like it could have greatness but their team was a little over zealous about the release date.  We'll see though.  Long as its not another Dungeons or Impire, man those games were both disappointingly flat.
 
2013-12-10 07:26:25 PM

Maul555: all 20 of those games costs over $1000, not including the $500 cost of the xbone...  wow... just farking wow...  it makes since at about $60 per game, but when you see it like that... just 20 games and a system costs over $1500, its a lot.


Not really.  Over 3 years? 500$ a year, INCLUDING the price of the console.  5 years? 300$ a year. That's 5 games a year at that rate.  Or in other words, less than a dollar a day. You buy a daily soda? Coffee? Eat out once a week? You 'waste' more money than that on things you literally piss and shiat away, because you can buy X Y Z cheaper and make it yourself etc. etc.
 
2013-12-10 07:27:13 PM
But...Evil Genius:  Fantastic Dungeon Keeper style game play and you are the essential Bond villian, complete with volcano lair and scores of yellow hard-hatted minions.  Totally worth trying.
 
2013-12-10 07:31:28 PM

BumpInTheNight: DK2 was great, especially the whole possession spell.


A quick look says it doesn't do so hot on Win7.

Otherwise, GOG has it for 6 bucks.
 
2013-12-10 07:37:03 PM
I love the squabble over console gaming vs PC gaming. Consoles are PCs therefore console gaming is PC gaming. As is gaming on your iPhone or Android tablet. If its a computer and only 1 user is active at a time then it is a PC.
 
2013-12-10 07:37:28 PM

omeganuepsilon: BumpInTheNight: DK2 was great, especially the whole possession spell.

A quick look says it doesn't do so hot on Win7.

Otherwise, GOG has it for 6 bucks.


I have to say it wasn't so much the OS but the resolution, it absolutely shat the bed until I straight up disabled my two side monitors and forced my middle one down to a stretched 1280x1024 compatibility mode.  The trouble with it as well is because it does have really primitive 3d requirements you can't just drop it into a VM and call it a day either.  But again:  Evil Genius is amazing and works just fine on modern hardware despite being from 2006 or so.
 
2013-12-10 07:49:34 PM
Why would anyone buy it?

You can't even play Tie Fighter or X-wing on it.
 
2013-12-10 07:51:38 PM
If you don't care about the warranty you can change the hdd. It uses a regular SATA II drive, but you have to open the console up voiding your warranty.
 
2013-12-10 08:00:42 PM

Giltric: Why would anyone buy it?

You can't even play Tie Fighter or X-wing on it.


I like you, you can sleep with my sister, if I had one.
 
2013-12-10 08:01:33 PM
In 2013, a 500GB hard drive in a "next generation console" is ridiculous, especially when 138GB of that goes on system stuff. They could have spent £6 more (and that's single unit retail, so probably realistically £4 in Microsoft's volumes) and given people a 1TB drive that would effectively give nearly triple the storage space.

Then again, if they sell it for 500GB now, they can sell you an expensive proprietary upgrade later.
 
2013-12-10 09:16:23 PM

BumpInTheNight: Evil Genius


I'll look into it.  Sucks when you spend a bunch of money on a really nice computer and the best games you can think of to play came out years and years ago, before you bought your last computer or even the one before that...

/Skyrim is very pretty now with my hardware but so damned boring because I've played it sooo much.(had it on a console too)
//mods don't help a whole helluva lot
///thinking about the tropical world skin/mob/weather overhaul

kryptin420: If you don't care about the warranty you can change the hdd. It uses a regular SATA II drive, but you have to open the console up voiding your warranty.


Citation needed.

Technically you could on the 360, but you had to obtain a key(chunk of code) that validates the HDD for MS.  If your key was a 10gb, your 1tb HDD had 10gb accessible.  And of course, copying that data is a copyright violation so finding them on popular modding sites could be tough(because many don't want to get in trouble), and less popular modding sites more dangerous.(keyloggers and such galore).
 
2013-12-10 09:24:49 PM

omeganuepsilon: BumpInTheNight: Evil Genius

I'll look into it.  Sucks when you spend a bunch of money on a really nice computer and the best games you can think of to play came out years and years ago, before you bought your last computer or even the one before that...

/Skyrim is very pretty now with my hardware but so damned boring because I've played it sooo much.(had it on a console too)
//mods don't help a whole helluva lot
///thinking about the tropical world skin/mob/weather overhaul

kryptin420: If you don't care about the warranty you can change the hdd. It uses a regular SATA II drive, but you have to open the console up voiding your warranty.

Citation needed.

Technically you could on the 360, but you had to obtain a key(chunk of code) that validates the HDD for MS.  If your key was a 10gb, your 1tb HDD had 10gb accessible.  And of course, copying that data is a copyright violation so finding them on popular modding sites could be tough(because many don't want to get in trouble), and less popular modding sites more dangerous.(keyloggers and such galore).



http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-hard-drive-is-replaceable- bu t-doing-so-will-void-your-warranty/1100-6416316/
 
2013-12-10 09:31:45 PM

Egoy3k: Ned Stark: FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?

Installing your games on your own machine: deliberate sabatoge.

I hope they aren't paying you a lot, you aren't good at this.

We really need to get over this need to accuse everyone who disagrees with us of being a paid schill.  You have every reason to be upset about the small storage drive on the xbox one but you make yourself look stupid when you post things like this.


I agree with Egoy3k. You should be ashamed of yourself Ned, for your childish outburst.
 
2013-12-10 09:31:53 PM

kryptin420: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-one-hard-drive-is-replaceable- bu t-doing-so-will-void-your-warranty/1100-6416316/


From your link:
In addition, it is unclear if the Xbox One will recognize unformatted SATA hard drives.

It could very well be the xbone has a similar feature as the 360 had.  I don't see MS passing up a chance at selling proprietary hardware at a huge markup in one fashion or another.  They made some slick cash on hdd's.

then again, they may have just given up due to sites like se7ensins.(game/console modding forums).
 
2013-12-10 09:42:10 PM
Just wanted to biatch, I put in a BD-R that I burned and the Xbox One can't read it.  Apparently it only supports mastered Blu-ray discs, not home burned discs.  I don't get it.
 
2013-12-10 10:32:48 PM
Most stores I have been to, last was Target, has the Xbone in stock.  No one keeps the ps4 in stock longer than a couple hours.
 
2013-12-10 10:36:18 PM

sammyk: Something doesn't add up. Is there an OS that requires 100+GB? I'm giving brand new 2012 servers 48GB for the system drive.


Reserved space for swap files per media type?  Multiple media sources all running at once may need to each have their own space.  Also possibly mirroring of data for fault tolerance and recovery.
 
2013-12-10 10:41:46 PM

WalkingCarpet: Just wanted to biatch, I put in a BD-R that I burned and the Xbox One can't read it.  Apparently it only supports mastered Blu-ray discs, not home burned discs.  I don't get it.


Because fark you, that's why.
 
2013-12-10 11:04:11 PM
Remember the old days when you had to install games to some old clunky computer but then they invented those awesome cartridges and CD/DVDs for games?

Thank god those days are behind us with all this new technology.
 
2013-12-10 11:09:13 PM

farkeruk: In 2013, a 500GB hard drive in a "next generation console" is ridiculous, especially when 138GB of that goes on system stuff. They could have spent £6 more (and that's single unit retail, so probably realistically £4 in Microsoft's volumes) and given people a 1TB drive that would effectively give nearly triple the storage space.

Then again, if they sell it for 500GB now, they can sell you an expensive proprietary upgrade later.


Kinda like my 4th 360 (after 3RRODS, and another that sounded like a truck that I traded in) that I picked up in 2010 came with a 6bg HD or the option to spend $100 on a 50GB replacement?

All makers are guilty of this though. Same deal with buying a tablet. Oh, you want 64GB instead of 32? $100 more please. What? you can buy a 64gb SD card for like 10 bucks? Screw you buddy!
 
2013-12-10 11:33:17 PM

FormlessOne: Um, you do realize that you get unlimited free storage in the cloud with Xbox One and your Xbox Live account, right? That storage management is an automatic feature? That, if you're forcing the installation of 20 games to your drive, without using either of those features, you're deliberately sabotaging your Xbox One for the purposes of, well, disingenuous sensationalism, to be generous?


Yeah, all you have to do is start putting 50gb files in the cloud, you lazy ass gravy cockwads. "Whaaaa...whaaaa...I don't have a dedicated fiber line straight to Microsoft's server farm to make that viable"...shut up. Christ.
 
2013-12-11 02:30:35 AM
... so uninstall something?

I mean, that's, what... 20 games times $60 a game (assuming they're AAA releases, then again, that's not needed to warrant a wallet-raping these days)... $1200 worth of games? I don't know anyone who has that much invested in a console game library at one time.

And if you do, find something better to do with your time.

/The difference between you and Microsoft is that they figured out there's more money in making computers work than using them
//that applies to video games as well
 
2013-12-11 04:39:04 AM

GlassWalker: Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore

I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.


I played AC, AC2, Brotherhood, and part of 3 with keyboard and mouse. Bought a PS3 controller three days ago and started on 2 again, so much better than keyboard and mouse (on this title).

I may buy a gaming rig sometime soon as my laptop won't run AC4 or other titles I've heard good thing about (Skyrim, Bioshock, etc). I was a console gamer for years but with Steam PC gaming "just works". I haven't built a PC in years so I may look for out of the box.
 
2013-12-11 08:18:54 AM
the space is less an issue than the speed... why these systems were designed with a 5400rpm SATA2-to-USB3.0 HDD in mind boggles me

Marine1: ... so uninstall something?

I mean, that's, what... 20 games times $60 a game (assuming they're AAA releases, then again, that's not needed to warrant a wallet-raping these days)... $1200 worth of games? I don't know anyone who has that much invested in a console game library at one time.

And if you do, find something better to do with your time.

/The difference between you and Microsoft is that they figured out there's more money in making computers work than using them
//that applies to video games as well


i wouldn't be shocked if both Sony and Microsoft came out with consoles a year from now with more space, just like how the 360 and PS3 both started off with 20gb versions that are now useless
 
2013-12-11 08:27:01 AM

BumpInTheNight: Tax Boy: What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?

Believe me its only a small subset who unfortunately also show them off like moms do with their kids on facebook.  Many of us prefer to just drop their little ricer rigs down a peg with casual mentions of stuff like "Oh an SSD, how quaint.  Lemmie know when you're rocking a 4xraid0 of them."

Like I just did. :P


this is why i prefer corsair cases

my only complaint about my current one is the big glass screen on the CPU/GPU/Motherboard side (air 540)... what's the point? my motherboard has some red lights on it, woopty doo
 
2013-12-11 08:54:17 AM

Tyrosine: FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

I keep hearing this as the main reason people prefer consoles, but as someone who has a PS2, PS3, XBox360 and a PC I don't see the problem. It's not like back in the late 80s /early 90s where you had to memorize a bunch of DOS commands to use a PC. Everything today is plug and play on PCs. I've only had two problems with PC games in the last 10 years and they were taken care of by updating drivers, which PCs do automatically just like consoles (the only difference being you have to  "OK" the update which takes one click of the mouse). I just built a new PC, loaded all my games from Steam, some of which are over 10 years old, and everything worked perfectly.

Memory management? This has always been an issue with consoles depending on how many games you have. Regardless of the platform, if you filled the HD, you filled the HD. You could either pay for an upgrade, delete stuff, or use an external. It's no more (or less) difficult on a PC than an XBox or PS.

I suppose backward compatibility is a bit of an issue for PCs. Games written for DOS may have problems running under windows 7, but the last time I checked you can't play PS2/PS3 games on the PS4, nor 360 game ...


Ok, but I have bought PC games and never got to play them because of compatibility. A few others required sound or graphic card updates before they would play. Also, trying to use a controller was a huge hassle.

The master race glosses over these issues. PC gaming was more rewarding because it felt like a major accomplishment to get some games to play at all on a PC.

I'm not an expert, and my equipment has always been middling. But that's why guys like me have prefered consoles. Until now, anyway.
 
2013-12-11 09:09:06 AM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: GlassWalker: Tyrosine: When I first went back to PC gaming I used a controller as well. Do yourself a favor and learn to use keyboard / mouse. It's soooo much better than a controller because the mouse gives much better control. Trust me. It takes a few hours of play to get the muscle memory down, but once you learn it you will never go back to controllers.

/there's no whore like a reformed whore

I agree, in general. (In fact, I just alt-tab'd Mass Effect to check back here.)

That said, some games are a lot more fluid on controller, like Assassin's Creed. I think it comes from Devs building on multi-platform and designing some games for console first. So, I bounce back and forth.

I just mention it because I think many console gamers are console gamers because they're casual, or just more comfortable with a controller. So I wanted to mention that a person could be a controller gamer on PC too.

I played AC, AC2, Brotherhood, and part of 3 with keyboard and mouse. Bought a PS3 controller three days ago and started on 2 again, so much better than keyboard and mouse (on this title).

I may buy a gaming rig sometime soon as my laptop won't run AC4 or other titles I've heard good thing about (Skyrim, Bioshock, etc). I was a console gamer for years but with Steam PC gaming "just works". I haven't built a PC in years so I may look for out of the box.


You can run AC3 but not bioshock or skyrim?

Steam gaming does not always 'just work'. Some of the Indy titles will fail to run, and sometimes they run out of keys for hot super sale items (the former has only happened 2-3 times, the latter hasn't happened I think this year, was a relic of devs only giving steam a few keys and underestimating steam sale power).

It's pretty close though not 'as good' as console gaming for 'just works'

/avoid dues ex human revolution collectors cut. It runs like shiat on every system I've seen. The non DC edition is good but they farked the dog somehow with the DC
 
2013-12-11 09:57:00 AM

stewbert: Tyrosine: FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

I keep hearing this as the main reason people prefer consoles, but as someone who has a PS2, PS3, XBox360 and a PC I don't see the problem. It's not like back in the late 80s /early 90s where you had to memorize a bunch of DOS commands to use a PC. Everything today is plug and play on PCs. I've only had two problems with PC games in the last 10 years and they were taken care of by updating drivers, which PCs do automatically just like consoles (the only difference being you have to  "OK" the update which takes one click of the mouse). I just built a new PC, loaded all my games from Steam, some of which are over 10 years old, and everything worked perfectly.

Memory management? This has always been an issue with consoles depending on how many games you have. Regardless of the platform, if you filled the HD, you filled the HD. You could either pay for an upgrade, delete stuff, or use an external. It's no more (or less) difficult on a PC than an XBox or PS.

I suppose backward compatibility is a bit of an issue for PCs. Games written for DOS may have problems running under windows 7, but the last time I checked you can't play PS2/PS3 games on the PS4, no ...


I'm not an expert either. That's my point. Over the last 10 years, especially in the last 5, PCs have become much easier to use and effectively work the same as consoles: Both PCs and consoles automatically update their drivers, require virtually the same amount of technical skill to install, etc. PCs do offer far more flexibility than consoles, which can complicate things, but taking advantage of this flexibility is optional. As I've said you can get a ready to go gaming PC right out of the box.

I've never had a problem with a Steam game and I'm playing some games (e.g. Space Empires IV) that date back form the late 90's. Many of my games were written in the XP era (Bioshock, Fallout 3) but Steam has patched them to work under Win 7 and 8.

Are there compatibility issues? Sure. If you buy an old XBox game do you expect it to work on your new XBox1? No. But for some reason people buy off the shelf games made for XP and are astounded when they won't work under windows 8.
 
2013-12-11 03:18:32 PM

stewbert: Tyrosine: FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

I keep hearing this as the main reason people prefer consoles, but as someone who has a PS2, PS3, XBox360 and a PC I don't see the problem. It's not like back in the late 80s /early 90s where you had to memorize a bunch of DOS commands to use a PC. Everything today is plug and play on PCs. I've only had two problems with PC games in the last 10 years and they were taken care of by updating drivers, which PCs do automatically just like consoles (the only difference being you have to  "OK" the update which takes one click of the mouse). I just built a new PC, loaded all my games from Steam, some of which are over 10 years old, and everything worked perfectly.

Memory management? This has always been an issue with consoles depending on how many games you have. Regardless of the platform, if you filled the HD, you filled the HD. You could either pay for an upgrade, delete stuff, or use an external. It's no more (or less) difficult on a PC than an XBox or PS.

I suppose backward compatibility is a bit of an issue for PCs. Games written for DOS may have problems running under windows 7, but the last time I checked you can't play PS2/PS3 games on the PS4, no ...


i guess it depends on the individual but... i remember enjoying both consoles and PC gaming growing up, yeah i was 7 or 8 years old running Wolfenstein in DOS and enjoying the hell out of that... nothing about PC's scared me as a child

to me the technical hurdle of PC gaming really peaked during the windows 98 era (tho it was still worth it for games like Quake), while the service/game options hit rock bottom between 2004-2007 when basically people only played PC games for Blizzard games

you also had some serious stagnation in the ease of setting up and using PC's during that general time period

but yeah, like others have said the last 5 years has made PC gaming easy as hell, i have to deal with more system updates and patching and crap services on consoles nowadays
 
2013-12-11 04:08:15 PM

FarkGrudge: Fano: eldritch2k4: I completely plan on owning more than 20 games over the course of the system's life. You know what I will probably do? The same thing I do on my PC when I run low on space: uninstall the games that I don't actually play, install the one I want to use and keep the disc around to reinstall, should I get the urge to play the ones I uninstalled. THE HORROR!

I was wondering why no one had mentioned this yet. I assume these digital hoarders have terabytes of porn they've never looked at.

Because this is the reason people buy consoles to begin with.

We buy consoles to avoid the "hassles" of PC-gaming...you know, disk management, driver management, resource management, etc.  In short:  console gaming needs to "just work," otherwise, it's going to have the same pitfalls as PC gaming.

As a new father, I can tell you that I'm not going to be excited to play a Xbox One or a PS4 (if it has similar limitations) if I first have to spend 20 minutes deciding what files/games to remove, wait for them to be deleted, then spend 20 more minutes installing a different game from a disc (oh, and wait for 15 minutes to download and install all of the updated patches after words).  Or worse, wait 2+ hours to download the digital version followed by 20 minutes to install it (and likely, still have to wait for the same 30 minute update process after words).

And for those of you who think 20 games is a lot, even if you don't current own and play 20 games right now, you most certainly will over the life of the product (even if rented/borrowed, etc).  Sure, you usually spot obvious ones to remove, but that's a process that hasn't had a place in console gaming before recently (ala PS1/2, Wii, WiiU, etc).  Even Xbox 360 and PS3 users often didn't see 10GB installs all that often (I observed 4-5GB to be more typical)--only in the last 6 months did I finally have to go through and remove all of my rented/borrowed game data to fit GTA5 on there.

Bottom-line:  the complaint is ...


Sorry, reality called. Your consoles are specialized computers, with resource management, operating systems, and the like. Get used to it.
 
2013-12-11 04:13:20 PM

JohnBigBootay: CPennypacker: Who gives a shiat there only 3 games out for it worth a fark anyway

Awwww man, you just shiat on peggle 2. I know, that's lame. But I can't wait to go home and play it tonight.

 
2013-12-11 05:00:30 PM

AdamK: BumpInTheNight: Tax Boy: What is it with homebrew gamer pc builders' hard-on for annoying blue and purple LED lighting?

Believe me its only a small subset who unfortunately also show them off like moms do with their kids on facebook.  Many of us prefer to just drop their little ricer rigs down a peg with casual mentions of stuff like "Oh an SSD, how quaint.  Lemmie know when you're rocking a 4xraid0 of them."

Like I just did. :P

this is why i prefer corsair cases

my only complaint about my current one is the big glass screen on the CPU/GPU/Motherboard side (air 540)... what's the point? my motherboard has some red lights on it, woopty doo


To avoid a cat spontaneously appearing in your tower. YMMV depending on location but my pc's build up a lot of dust. Being able to look in without removing panels is awesome for keeping down buildup, as per the old philosophy, out of sight out of mind.

I built my recent rig with a Haf XB case(coolermaster). Love it aside from it taking up a lot of space, but any tower with good airflow does that, just in a different form factor.  Modded a window into the top screen so dust didn't just fall in.  P/S draws up from the bottom and is cordoned off from mobo.  Temps stay fairly low unless I'm running Prime95.
/much recommended if you have the space for a large cube
//Must use quieter fans though, so many holes in the case it does not muffle any sound

Would have been a corsair case otherwise. Using a couple of their quiet edition fans, one on cpu one on exhaust.
 
2013-12-11 05:17:12 PM

Tyrosine: Both PCs and consoles automatically update their drivers, require virtually the same amount of technical skill to install, etc.


Pc's can do it automatically, but I wouldn't recomend it.  let the community at large vet them, make sure they don't have bugs.  I saw a video card update fry the onboard ethernet.  No amount of uninstalling drivers and installing older ones would work, it was proper farked, had to buy an ethernet card.

Same amount of technical skill to install?
Pure BS.

1. Consoles don't require installation.  They are the epitome of plug and play.  Even if you do open the case, you cannot upgrade anything but HDD, or replace a broken optical drive.  Those two things only slightly begin to be as complex as a PC.

2. For a PC you've got to have not only the right size ram/cpu, they've got to be within the spec that the motherboard supports, the right pin count, and even then, some mobo's have problems with certain components even though they were built with that in mind.    Add onto that, the actual skill to install a cpu properly, thermal paste, and your heatsink....not everyone is as coordinated as I am.

For me, it's easy.  Maybe for you and a couple tech friends.  Society at large though, that is different.

I'd trust my 14 year old nephew to "install" my xbox in the living room.  Not so much do anything to my PC aside from use the inter.....well not even that.  Every computer anyone in my family touches gets problematic malware and spyware.  That just doesn't happen on xbox, it can't happen(yet).

That's more than I'd want anyone I know doing to my computer.  From a factory when you buy a whole system, sure, because that typically comes with a "you farked it up when you built it" clause and you can return it or at least get it replaced.

But my console?  You can't fark it up unless you get physically rough with it.
 
2013-12-11 06:26:14 PM

omeganuepsilon: Tyrosine: Both PCs and consoles automatically update their drivers, require virtually the same amount of technical skill to install, etc.

Pc's can do it automatically, but I wouldn't recomend it.  let the community at large vet them, make sure they don't have bugs.  I saw a video card update fry the onboard ethernet.  No amount of uninstalling drivers and installing older ones would work, it was proper farked, had to buy an ethernet card.

Same amount of technical skill to install?
Pure BS.

1. Consoles don't require installation.  They are the epitome of plug and play.  Even if you do open the case, you cannot upgrade anything but HDD, or replace a broken optical drive.  Those two things only slightly begin to be as complex as a PC.



Really? So they just miracle themselves out of the box and automatically attach to your TV the moment you bring them through your front door?

2. For a PC you've got to have not only the right size ram/cpu, they've got to be within the spec that the motherboard supports, the right pin count, and even then, some mobo's have problems with certain components even though they were built with that in mind.    Add onto that, the actual skill to install a cpu properly, thermal paste, and your heatsink....not everyone is as coordinated as I am.

Have you been to Future Shop / Best Buy / Tiger Direct / Staples any time in the last decade? I only ask because appears you haven't. If you had you might of noticed they had dozens of pre-built models ready to go right out of the box. And when you buy a pre-built machine you need to connect the power (just like a console), connect to a monitor (just like a console), and then plug in mouse, keyboard and speakers. This last step differs slightly from consoles but if you have opposable thumbs and am IQ north of 60 it's not difficult.

In case I'm being too subtle here, my point is that you don't need to custom build a gaming PC. They come pre-built, ready to go, right out of the box. In fact I bought one for my son 10 months ago. Works fine and I haven't had to open the case even once.


For me, it's easy.  Maybe for you and a couple tech friends.  Society at large though, that is different.

Yes. Building you own machine from scratch is hard. THAT'S WHY ONLY HIGH-END USERS DO IT. Regular people don't need to.

I'd trust my 14 year old nephew to "install" my xbox in the living room.  Not so much do anything to my PC aside from use the inter.....well not even that.  Every computer anyone in my family touches gets problematic malware and spyware.  That just doesn't happen on xbox, it can't happen(yet).

Your 14 yo nephew can't plug in a power cord, VGA cable, a speaker and 2 USBs. You should consider having him tested. There are plenty of "special programs" available in schools today that could help him with vocational skills so one day he could aspire to wipe tables in the mall food court.

That's more than I'd want anyone I know doing to my computer.  From a factory when you buy a whole system, sure, because that typically comes with a "you farked it up when you built it" clause and you can return it or at least get it replaced.

But my console?  You can't fark it up unless you get physically rough with it.


Guessing by the fact that you are unaware of pre-built PCs (which have been available since the 1980s BTW) even consoles may be beyond you.

www.overclock.net
 
2013-12-11 06:53:26 PM
Err... XBox One allows game installs to an external drive, doesn't it?  If so, I don't see a terribly big issue.
 
2013-12-11 06:56:33 PM
Opening the box and setting the unit on the shelf and plugging it in is not "installing".  Yes, in that "plug in to use" Consoles and pre-built PC's are similar.  That is precisely the point where the similarity ends.  Also, you didn't specify "pre-built".  You said:

Tyrosine: Both PCs and consoles automatically update their drivers, require virtually the same amount of technical skill to install, etc.


See that?  Thanks to Fark's quote feature I could easily put it right there for you to reference.  You made an asinine absolute statement.  I called it for the BS that it was.  And you backpedaled with insults and an unfitting meme.

Tyrosine: too subtle here, my point is that you don't need to custom build a gaming PC. They come pre-built, ready to go, right out of the box. In fact I bought one for my son 10 months ago. Works fine and I haven't had to open the case even once.


Yet.

In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements, you have two options.  Another brand new PC that's able to play the newest games, or upgrading the current tower.

Three, if you include playing a game with downgraded resolution/quality.

As opposed to consoles, where the last generation lasted what, 7 years?

Tyrosine: Guessing by the fact that you are unaware of pre-built PCs (which have been available since the 1980s BTW) even consoles may be beyond you.


Fact?
You're not very observant.  I very specifically mentioned them.  Here, I'll even quote myself:

omeganuepsilon: From a factory when you buy a whole system, sure, because that typically comes with a "you farked it up when you built it" clause and you can return it or at least get it replaced.


But whatever, troll on, asshole.  It's quite obvious that you're in here to not make a coherent point or learn, you are just to piss people off because it makes your manhood engorged to it's full 2 inches.

Either that or IQ of 60 you mentioned is yours.
 
2013-12-11 06:58:05 PM

omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements, you have two options. Another brand new PC that's able to play the newest games, or upgrading the current tower.


Seriously?  It's 2013, dude.  Stop playing the "you need to upgrade your PC every six months" card, because it hasn't been even remotely true for about a decade now.
 
2013-12-11 07:01:09 PM

HeartBurnKid: omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements, you have two options. Another brand new PC that's able to play the newest games, or upgrading the current tower.

Seriously?  It's 2013, dude.  Stop playing the "you need to upgrade your PC every six months" card, because it hasn't been even remotely true for about a decade now.


I didn't play that card, moron.  Read that again:

omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements,


It may be 6 months, or a year, or more.  I also followed with:

omeganuepsilon: As opposed to consoles, where the last generation lasted what, 7 years?


There is a lot of wiggle room between 6 months and 7 years.  Way to be a total tool, I bet your parents are so proud of you.
 
2013-12-11 07:06:39 PM

omeganuepsilon: HeartBurnKid: omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements, you have two options. Another brand new PC that's able to play the newest games, or upgrading the current tower.

Seriously?  It's 2013, dude.  Stop playing the "you need to upgrade your PC every six months" card, because it hasn't been even remotely true for about a decade now.

I didn't play that card, moron.  Read that again:

omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements,

It may be 6 months, or a year, or more.


So in other words, not only do you have no idea what you're talking about, but you're not actually saying anything.

 I also followed with:
omeganuepsilon: As opposed to consoles, where the last generation lasted what, 7 years?

There is a lot of wiggle room between 6 months and 7 years.  Way to be a total tool, I bet your parents are so proud of you.


And you're pointlessly insulting anybody who dares to disagree with you to boot.

Shouldn't you be on the politics tab, figuring out how many zeroes you can fit into Obama's name?
 
2013-12-11 07:43:51 PM

HeartBurnKid: So in other words, not only do you have no idea what you're talking about, but you're not actually saying anything.


What do you think I did, kill your parents?

Damned when you mistakenly think I said X, and damned when I say anything but X.

I know precisely what I'm talking about.  What's funny is you having your cake and eating it.  I'm damned because you think I have a magical knowledge of the future(the anti-6 month tirade you belted out), and then when I prove that's not what I said, I'm damned because I can't predict the future.

It's not that I don't know, it's that I'm leaving room for error.  Today's technology will fall by the wayside to more powerful technology in the future(barring apocalypse that makes technology irrelevant) .  Some things last months, some years.  Not many do decades.

Try playing today's AAA titles on a 7 year old PC and let me know how well that works out for you, douchebag.

Are you trying to make people's ignore lists, or do you have a grudge against me because I proved you to be a moron in the past?  It's fark, so both are possible really, there's no bottom of the barrel for you to scrape.  I just hope that you ripping on people here senselessly means that you won't reproduce.  I may fear for their genetics, but I would certainly fear for their well being.  That'd be like Hitler and Dahmer having kids through some strange test tube experiment and then homeschoolling them between nightly molestations, the prospects of that theoretical union could not possibly be worse for society than kids that you are raising.

/and plonk for being an aggrandizing two faced asshole
//congratz
 
2013-12-11 08:43:10 PM

omeganuepsilon: See that?  Thanks to Fark's quote feature I could easily put it right there for you to reference.  You made an asinine absolute statement.  I called it for the BS that it was.  And you backpedaled with insults and an unfitting meme.


So you are claiming that a console is easier to install than an out of the box PC? So in your world plugging in a speaker and 2 USBs is an insurmountable barrier to most people? Because that's the only difference between a PC and a console.

omeganuepsilon: In 6 months or a year, whenever games take another jump in requirements, you have two options.  Another brand new PC that's able to play the newest games, or upgrading the current tower.

Three, if you include playing a game with downgraded resolution/quality.

As opposed to consoles, where the last generation lasted what, 7 years?


Really? My previous machine was an HP running Vista purchased (out of the box) in 2006, which ran Steam and played current games until I replaced it early in 2013 (holy shiatballs -7 years!!!). I played Modern Warfare 3, Black-Ops, Borderlands 2 all with no issues in performance. Sure I could have boosted performance with a new video card, but I didn't need to.

omeganuepsilon: You're not very observant.  I very specifically mentioned them.  Here, I'll even quote myself:


Then why say this in the first place:

omeganuepsilon: 2. For a PC you've got to have not only the right size ram/cpu, they've got to be within the spec that the motherboard supports, the right pin count, and even then, some mobo's have problems with certain components even though they were built with that in mind.    Add onto that, the actual skill to install a cpu properly, thermal paste, and your heatsink....not everyone is as coordinated as I am.

For me, it's easy.  Maybe for you and a couple tech friends.  Society at large though, that is different.


That entire statement clearly implies a home built PC despite the fact that several times throughout the thread I've specifically mentioned out of the box PCs. You made a big farking deal about how complex it is to build a PC, is too tough for "society at large" and then you try and claim you meant pre-builts? I've owned about 5 pre-builts over the years, and used a bunch more at work. Never once need to worry about heat-sinks, pin settings, or thermal paste. Know why? Because someone else assembled them. That's what pre-built means.

Your whole point seems to be that PCs are still cryptic mystery boxes beyond the skill set of average people, which is complete BS. Walk into any goddammed store that sells computers, tell them you want a PC for gaming and give them a price range and they can give you an out of the box PC that is as easy to install as a console. You don't need to configure the BIOS, fark with your registry, configure your hard drives, etc. Plug it in. Connect the monitor (or TV). Plug in the speaker (1 lime green plug). Plug in the keyboard (USB). Plug in the mouse (also USB). Turn it on. Open your browser. Download Steam (free FYI). It's that simple.

Oh, and for the record I also play consoles (details in another post). I'm just trying to counter the myth that computers are "hard", which you seem bent on perpetuating.


omeganuepsilon: But my console?  You can't fark it up unless you get physically rough with it.


Or you get the RROD because you played it for more than a couple of hours and it over heated. Or it comes pre-bricked courtesy of Sony. Or your magical console comes with a 300GB hard drive (which was the standard in PCs about a decade ago) and you want to install more than 20 games.
 
2013-12-11 09:15:14 PM

Tyrosine: So you are claiming that a console is easier to install than an out of the box PC?


I am claiming that you're still a moron for using the word "install".

Your use is tatamount to saying you "installed" a lamp.  In a specific conversation about PC's and consoles and comparing the two, "install" has a specific meaning, and "plugging it in" is not it.

Now, if you're actually installing it into the home, you're making it a fixture(hence the difference between a lamp and a light fixture), you are attaching it in a way that's more or less intended to be permanent.  Screws, spackle, wiring, that sort of thing.

Most people don't install a console(or a pc, you contrarian halfwit), they put one on the shelf.

Tyrosine: and then you try and claim you meant pre-builts?

Tyrosine: Your whole point seems to be



You're a dipshiat, welcome to ignore.  Hope I made your day.  Enjoy a life of being so annoying people would rather do without you completely.  You and heartburnkid can talk about me behind my back while giving eachother a dutch rudder and then cry yourselves to sleep.
 
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