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(Gawker)   China's cities don't have smog - they have smokescreens defending against Western imperialism   (gawker.com) divider line 18
    More: Silly, imperialisms, Chinese Communist Party, smog, South China Morning Post, dog attacks  
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3684 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Dec 2013 at 9:50 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-12-10 09:10:28 AM
7 votes:
www.geekosystem.com

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.
2013-12-10 10:24:48 AM
4 votes:

This text is now purple: Gergesa: This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.

So you're really going to run with a True Scotsman argument?

How's that strawman coming along? Little late in the season, isn't it?


Those terms have meanings. You cannot just pick a couple at random and accuse someone of using them without looking like a complete dumbass.
2013-12-10 10:11:03 AM
4 votes:

This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?


Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.
2013-12-10 10:18:04 AM
3 votes:

This text is now purple: Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.

Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?


Nixon was not the modern GoP
2013-12-10 10:14:45 AM
3 votes:

Gergesa: This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.


Which really is a shame as progressive conservatism is the best path for the U.S.  I really think it's our primary process that really has screwed up the path of the nation over the past 20 years.  Teddy was one of the best men to ever hold the office.  Super academic but was able to be gruff enough to get respect.
2013-12-10 10:29:09 AM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Gergesa: This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.

So you're really going to run with a True Scotsman argument?

How's that strawman coming along? Little late in the season, isn't it?


It is unfortunate that you failed to correctly use those fallacy terms correctly.
2013-12-10 10:28:41 AM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.

Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?


I said right, not Republican.

Nixon was WAAAAAAY too liberal to even get the Democratic nom today.  Hell, probably Barry Goldwater also.

/And that is really sad.  Our nation is seriously farked up.
2013-12-10 10:28:01 AM
2 votes:

Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.


Cannot be repeated often enough.
2013-12-10 10:26:21 AM
2 votes:

This text is now purple: Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.

Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?


No, that was Johnson.

Nixon was the asshole who vetoed the Clean Water Act.

You receive zero points.
2013-12-10 10:05:20 AM
2 votes:

Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.


Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?
2013-12-10 11:54:46 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: We were really arguing about Riche's comment that if the right had its way, every city would look like China. It was then that I pointed out that when the right actually had the chance, they did exactly the opposite. Because the US actually looked something like that once upon a time, and that time was 1933-1948, right at the heart of 5 consecutive left democratic terms. So if we're arguing left and right, it's in the context of FDR politics, in which Nixon was clearly to the right.


Yeah, that sums it up better than I did. Left/Right is a matter of context over time, and we are (sadly) drifting ever right as time goes on.

I probably should have specified that I meant the right of todaywould be fine with seeing your children sicken and die for the sake of their bottom line, just like today's government/industry in China.
2013-12-10 11:48:28 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Riche: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

I said right, not Republican.

You're arguing Truman was rightist and Nixon wasn't? He certainly was more so than Kennedy/Johnson.


I'm claiming that America has shifted so far right over the decades that the "conservatives" of yesteryear would (in many, not all aspects-- this is a generalization with several exceptions) be called super "Libby Libby Commie" today.


Also, Truman/FDR were obviously a special case. Before their administrations, there simply hadn't been enough concentrated industry anywhere in the world to generate the level of pollution for people to realize it could be a long term serious problem.  Hell, FDR even bragged he would turn the skies of America "Black with progress."  He obviously didn't say that because he was OK with children dying of asthma attacks brought about by toxic smog (unlike many in today's right.)  He said that because they just didn't know-- they had no way of knowing.
2013-12-10 11:08:07 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Egoy3k: This text is now purple: Gergesa: This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.

So you're really going to run with a True Scotsman argument?

How's that strawman coming along? Little late in the season, isn't it?

Those terms have meanings. You cannot just pick a couple at random and accuse someone of using them without looking like a complete dumbass.

Yes, I realize. You can make both arguments at the same time.

Gergesa is both arguing that Nixon's not actually a republican (True Scotsman) because he's not the mythological pro-pollution demon he thinks real republicans are (strawman). He's neither shown that Nixon wasn't a republican, not that republicans are what he says they are.


No he is arguing that current republicans are not the same as past republicans. This is not a no true scotsman argument.

Also deregulation has directly led to a pretty recent major ecological disaster (you may have hear about it) and current republicans seem to want less regulation and to effectively neuter the agencies that are directly tasked with enforcing the existing regulations thus it's not a strawman so much as it is a direct observation of current realities.
2013-12-10 11:05:50 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Gergesa is both arguing that Nixon's not actually a republican


False, I never argued that.  I said that the right's current base wouldn't consider him as a republican.  Bod Dole and others have commented on this before.

This text is now purple: he's not the mythological pro-pollution demon he thinks real republicans are (strawman)


I didn't argue this either.
2013-12-10 10:59:44 AM
1 votes:

This text is now purple: Koodz: This text is now purple: Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.

Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

No, that was Johnson.

Nixon was the asshole who vetoed the Clean Water Act.

You receive zero points.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Air_Act_%28United_States%29#Clean _A ir_Act_of_1970

Nixon started widespread federal enforcement. The 1955, 1963, and 1967 versions were primarily research-based, although the 1967 version started some federal interstate controls.

Eisenhower actually got the thing started, and helped bail out the hole FDR had dug.


You asked if he signed it, and the answer was no.

Please continue preaching the gospel of environmentalist Nixon though.
2013-12-10 10:53:24 AM
1 votes:

Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.


Which is ironic because that's what the cities DO look like when the left does have its way.
2013-12-10 10:52:54 AM
1 votes:

Egoy3k: This text is now purple: Gergesa: This text is now purple: Really? Wasn't it Nixon who signed the Clean Air Act? Didn't peak smog occur under Truman?

Nixon, Reagan, Teddy and so on would be considered RINOs or radical socialists by the right's base today.

So you're really going to run with a True Scotsman argument?

How's that strawman coming along? Little late in the season, isn't it?

Those terms have meanings. You cannot just pick a couple at random and accuse someone of using them without looking like a complete dumbass.


Yes, I realize. You can make both arguments at the same time.

Gergesa is both arguing that Nixon's not actually a republican (True Scotsman) because he's not the mythological pro-pollution demon he thinks real republicans are (strawman). He's neither shown that Nixon wasn't a republican, not that republicans are what he says they are.
2013-12-10 09:53:05 AM
1 votes:

Riche: [www.geekosystem.com image 550x341]

Remember, kids:  EVERY major American city would be just like this if the right had its way.


Well, it would be nice to have 10% GDP growth for a few years.
 
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