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(NBC News)   "With Windows 8.1, Microsoft has resurrected the Start button ... by placing it in the 'Pet Sematary'"   (nbcnews.com) divider line 238
    More: Amusing, Start Button, Microsoft, Action Center, SkyDrive, screen resolution  
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7390 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Dec 2013 at 6:45 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-09 12:22:41 PM

Rincewind53: Ugh.  I just got a new laptop from a Black Friday deal on NewEgg, and it came with 8.

I almost shot myself dealing with frustrations. It treats me like I am a child, and hides all deep functionality from me. I've been using Windows since 3.1, so by this time I'm a goddamn power user. But suddenly I feel like a complete idiot. I spent almost two minutes searching for the goddamn Windows Update. I had to go online to figure out where the hell the Control Panel was stored.

8.1 is a slight improvement, and now that I've set it to boot to Desktop and reinstalled the  actual start button, things have gone from teeth-grinding frustration to mere occasional annoyance. But then I find out that the default PDF reader is an "app" and shunts me over into the entirely different Metro closed-garden system, and I get annoyed all over again.


Classic Shell. That is all.

I have pretty much the same history, save I started in DOS 5.0 (shudder) and actually took computer science in high school (FORTRAN GOTO ARGH).

If it's any consolation, once you turn half of it off, it runs faster than XP did on the same machine. Sort of an MS theme, I find, as are each iteration's "decrapify/disable" tip sheets.
 
2013-12-09 12:34:45 PM

Maul555: DeaH: I don't get all the frustration. I mainly work from the Desktop/ The icon on the lower left corner is for the Start Page, and if I want another program, I just click it. There's no need to scroll over. You can just begin typing the application or function you want, and a list will come up. In a lot of ways, it's much faster and easier than hunting through the old Start Menu and its submenus. You can also drag and drop program you use a lot so that they are the first things you see on the start page.

Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve, but it only took me 45 minutes to get comfortable. And I still hate the ribbon.

STOP RIGHT THERE!  I will never ever ever ever be one of those people that types in the name of a program into a search bar as a way of launching it.  I want to see a list and find it on that list...  I can manage my own lists, thank you.  And no, the visual clusterfark that is the metro screen does not get the job done for me.


You know, you can rearrange those tiles.
 
2013-12-09 12:34:45 PM

skozlaw: starmage21: Other than that one major hiccup, Win 8 feels in every way like Win 7.

If you never really used your computer for anything beyond the basics, which many didn't and don't, this is a perfectly valid way to feel once you get used to a few minor idiosyncrasies.

Bear in mind, however, that some of us use it in a professional setting every day for much more complex tasks than composing emails and browsing Fark. Once you get into the system beyond secretary-level use, you start to stumble over an awful lot of stupid from Microsoft that doesn't seem to be there for any other reason than "fark you for using Windows for anything complex".

I still contend that the single biggest problem with Windows 8/8.1 is that they insist upon continuing to pretend a "Professional" version exists when it still includes all the same "idiot button" features of the home version designed to placate people who refuse to understand how computers work.


The Professional version includes a list of features that the average user doesnt interact with, like joining a domain and some of the administrative tools.

I spent 10 years as a helpdesk tech, before moving into development, so I'm glad that you were able to confuse my statements as those coming from the perspective of the average user, because that is the stance I was trying to present.

Change aversion is the only "problem" with Win 8.
 
2013-12-09 12:51:37 PM

YodaBlues: You can disable those and the hot corners in the options for Classic Shell.


I haven't gotten around to looking at every setting yet. Kinda waiting on my graphics card and ram to arrive before I start tinkering with it. I should be dual booting Funtoo and 8.1 by the end of the week (if FedEx SmartPost hurries the fark up).

It's my first time using Windows since 2006 and I only have it installed for playing games. I do everything else with Linux. I really don't have a need for Windows other than gaming.

/Really hoping that Mantle and Steam improve the gaming situation on Linux.

//Wine is OK for old games, but anything needing DX10+ leaves you f'd in the a.
 
2013-12-09 01:02:03 PM

DeaH: Maul555: DeaH: I don't get all the frustration. I mainly work from the Desktop/ The icon on the lower left corner is for the Start Page, and if I want another program, I just click it. There's no need to scroll over. You can just begin typing the application or function you want, and a list will come up. In a lot of ways, it's much faster and easier than hunting through the old Start Menu and its submenus. You can also drag and drop program you use a lot so that they are the first things you see on the start page.

Yes, there is a bit of a learning curve, but it only took me 45 minutes to get comfortable. And I still hate the ribbon.

STOP RIGHT THERE!  I will never ever ever ever be one of those people that types in the name of a program into a search bar as a way of launching it.  I want to see a list and find it on that list...  I can manage my own lists, thank you.   And no, the visual clusterfark that is the metro screen does not get the job done for me.

You know, you can rearrange those tiles.


the visual clusterfark that is the metro screen does not get the job done for me.
 
2013-12-09 01:23:39 PM

Rincewind53: Ugh.  I just got a new laptop from a Black Friday deal on NewEgg, and it came with 8.

I almost shot myself dealing with frustrations. It treats me like I am a child, and hides all deep functionality from me. I've been using Windows since 3.1, so by this time I'm a goddamn power user. But suddenly I feel like a complete idiot. I spent almost two minutes searching for the goddamn Windows Update. I had to go online to figure out where the hell the Control Panel was stored.

8.1 is a slight improvement, and now that I've set it to boot to Desktop and reinstalled the  actual start button, things have gone from teeth-grinding frustration to mere occasional annoyance. But then I find out that the default PDF reader is an "app" and shunts me over into the entirely different Metro closed-garden system, and I get annoyed all over again.


I went to the start menu and just started typing "windows update" or "control panel" and BAM, all windows update related items... you know, just like you could have done on Vista and 7.  You still try to hunt down individual programs?

As for the Metro PDF reader...  You've always had to install Acrobat or similar on earlier systems.  Why are you getting aggravated that the simplified tablet interface has one built in with nothing stopping you from doing exactly what you've done before?  Remember, the Metro interface is for tablets and noobs (handholding for the unwashed masses) while Desktop mode is your regular old familiar desktop.
 
2013-12-09 01:34:06 PM

rewind2846: Two different devices with two different uses, require two different paradigms. The same OS and interface does not apply, and the microbrains at Microsoft failed to realize this. I don't need for the lines to "blur" any more than I want all my food to taste the same.


You do realize that the people at Microsoft HAVE realized this and as such, kept the DESKTOP lurking around?  You know, because it's the DESKTOP?  You just click the DESKTOP tile and you get the DESKTOP version back?

Yes, there are a few idiosyncrasies they have to iron out, but by-and-large, if you stay with desktop, you never really see the Metro UI and if you stay with Metro, you rarely see the desktop.
 
2013-12-09 02:02:17 PM

SleepingEye: Yes, there are a few idiosyncrasies they have to iron out, but by-and-large, if you stay with desktop, you never really see the Metro UI and if you stay with Metro, you rarely see the desktop.


I'm with you - I think they've done a reasonably good job with keeping the two roles separate, and an OK job when you've got a mult-role machine.  I'm also baffled by the hate.

What I don't get is the notion that people cannot conceive of a scenario where they'd want one device to act as both a tablet (which is to say a content consumption device), and a laptop (which is to say a content creation device).  It just doesn't seem to take all that much imagination.

Like the whole thing with "I wouldn't want to use a touch UI when I'm writing a document - a mouse is much better and efficient".  As if the two were mutually exclusive.
 
2013-12-09 02:15:14 PM

SleepingEye: rewind2846: Two different devices with two different uses, require two different paradigms. The same OS and interface does not apply, and the microbrains at Microsoft failed to realize this. I don't need for the lines to "blur" any more than I want all my food to taste the same.

You do realize that the people at Microsoft HAVE realized this and as such, kept the DESKTOP lurking around?  You know, because it's the DESKTOP?  You just click the DESKTOP tile and you get the DESKTOP version back?

Yes, there are a few idiosyncrasies they have to iron out, but by-and-large, if you stay with desktop, you never really see the Metro UI and if you stay with Metro, you rarely see the desktop.



Windows 8.1: "If you like your start button, you can keep it"
 
2013-12-09 02:18:35 PM

starmage21: Change aversion is the only "problem" with Win 8.


I'll give that opinion exactly the level of technical consideration it deserves coming from a "developer".
 
2013-12-09 02:20:28 PM

Repo Man: ZeroCorpse: I really don't get all the people who are confounded by the shut down procedure on Win 8... Unless your computer is ten years old, ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS PRESS THE POWER BUTTON. Windows and PC hardware have been smart enough to interpret the quick press of the power button as a "shut down safely" command for many years now. You don't need to dig through software menus to shut down. Press the farking button, dumbass.

As has been said before, many computer towers (both in homes and offices) are tucked away where reaching the power button is inconvenient.


Why are you pressing the power button so frequently that you can lean / stand up or find it extremely inconvenient?

I leave my computer on standby so it's ready in a second when I want to use it.
 
2013-12-09 02:20:38 PM

Babwa Wawa: What I don't get is the notion that people cannot conceive of a scenario where they'd want one device to act as both a tablet (which is to say a content consumption device), and a laptop (which is to say a content creation device). It just doesn't seem to take all that much imagination.


Are you kidding me? I'd LOVE that. Carry my tablet around when I'm in the datacenter than plug into a dock at my desk.

Too bad there's no OS out there right now that does that.
 
2013-12-09 02:22:31 PM

skozlaw: Too bad there's no OS out there right now that does that.


Yeah, I know.  We can wish though, can't we?
 
2013-12-09 02:24:15 PM

rewind2846: TuteTibiImperes: The desktop isn't gone or neutered in any way, and it isn't going away. The biggest difference is that you have a full screen program launcher instead of a cascading menu. It's really not that big of a deal.

It is when you have 4 explorer windows, photoshop, illustrator, 3ds Max, Creo viewer, AutoCad, explorer browser, firefox, Zune software, MS Outlook and InDesign open across two screens. Cascading windows are good, and seeing all of them at once is even better (I have a beefy rig at work - 32 GB of ram).
Having everything mashed together or having to guess where something is because only 4 of them can be seen at a time? No thanks.

As I said before, there's play, and then there's work. Colored boxes floating around and searching for things isn't for work. Windows 7 pro 64 bit, TYVM.


So what stops you from having 4 explorer windows, photoshop, illustrator, 3ds Max, Creo viewer, AutoCad, explorer browser, firefox, Zune software, MS Outlook and InDesign open across two screens in Windows 8?  That's the point of the Desktop mode.  As we speak right now, I have 4 explorer sessions, Steam, League of Legends, Ventrilo, my browser, my email client open in desktop mode.

If colored floaty boxes aren't your thing, don't use them?  I rarely see them because I spend most of my time in desktop mode.
 
2013-12-09 02:38:51 PM

skozlaw: starmage21: Change aversion is the only "problem" with Win 8.

I'll give that opinion exactly the level of technical consideration it deserves coming from a "developer".


If it makes you feel better, I had to support it for end users. The end users USUALLY got over all their change-aversion butthurt as soon as I was able to show them how to get to the desktop, and present the metro interface as an app environment and "start menu with pictures".

There are otherwise no technical issues to speak of, from a support or development perspective that I've encountered. Then again, the bulk of my development is in SQL reporting.
 
2013-12-09 03:02:30 PM

kroonermanblack: Since this is a windows thread: bought a new laptop a while back, and I spent quite literally 4-5 hours uninstalling shiat to make it run less like frozen liquid shiat.

It still doesn't run worth a damn.  The hardware in it isn't -great- by any means, but I can't help but think that windows 8 and Lenovo bloatware just wreck it.

So my question is: A) Does anyone know where I can get some sort of clean-install version of windows 8? Bear in mind when you buy laptops now you DO NOT get a windows disc, so I've got no clue/method to install a new copy legally...

B) Are there any linux distros that aren't shiat, have drivers, and are as easy to use as Windows XP or 7 were?  I don't really enjoy using computers, so I don't want to deal with...anything.  I just want an OS that runs stable, relatively quick, and lets me browse and/or watch netflix (Note: this laptop is strictly for living room 'looking shiat up' use, with the rare travel use).

C) Anyone had good exp with a chromebook? Do they run any programs at all?  I've got a couple thin game clients I run regularly that I would miss.


I have a chromebook as my leisure time web browser.  The OS is stable, quick and simple.  Netflix runs on it.  No idea about your game clients.  Battery life is good, it doesn't run hot and it's light enough that you won't mind having it sitting in your lap for a few hours.
 
2013-12-09 03:37:06 PM

starmage21: There are otherwise no technical issues to speak of, from a support or development perspective that I've encountered. Then again, the bulk of my development is in SQL reporting.


I'll give you the same real-world example I've been giving to people who claim it's a-okay and people are just change averse because it's one of the most consistently farked up examples of how random and pointless the design of Windows 8 is. File search.

Windows 7:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

Done. A full-featured Explorer shell opens allowing full access to and manipulation of every found item. Cut, copy, delete, print, see properties, compare by dates and sizes, open with... anything you need to do because it's a full-feature shell meant for displaying and manipulating files.

Now, Windows 8:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

An app pops up full-screen with the results in it.

You can open any single file with a click or you can right-click any single result and open it's location in an explorer shell. Windows 8.1 helpfully adds the option to copy any single result to the clipboard.

If you want to copy or open multiple results, you must snap the result app to one side and then do them one at a time. There is no cutting, deleting or dragging and dropping, nor can you open the properties of the file or view the list in a "details" mode that is useful for, say, comparing files by modified date or size. Clicking allows you to open the result with the default handler, but once a default is set you cannot use an alternate method. For example, if I want to toss a .reg file into Notepad I can't do that from the search results, I have to "Open File Location" and then use the proper 'Open With...' context menu command that would have been available from the start in Windows 7.

Fortunately, Micrfosoft has a cure for all of this! Search before you search!

No, I'm not kidding, that's Microsoft suggested "solution" to getting by their shiatty search app and into the perfectly useful one that should never have been hidden in the first place. they suggest you first search for "this pc" and open it (just don't start the search by using the standard WinKey+F key combo or you'll just search for files and inexplicably get results even though they have absolutely nothing to do with the words "this" or "pc") then focus your cursor in the search field and do the search you originally wanted.

Yes, Microsoft Xzibit'ed their own stupid search.

And while we're on the topic, here's something else that doesn't really cause any problems, but the design choice is inexplicable:

When you right-click a tile on the start menu, or a search result in the results app, the context bar comes up at the bottom with options in it. But if you right-click a result in the sidebar search results (even if you're on the start menu instead of the desktop when you do it) THAT particular bit doesn't use the bar at the bottom of the screen... it uses a tiny, one-item context menu (no copying allowed from the sidebar search results list). So freaking random.
 
2013-12-09 03:47:46 PM

skozlaw: starmage21: There are otherwise no technical issues to speak of, from a support or development perspective that I've encountered. Then again, the bulk of my development is in SQL reporting.

I'll give you the same real-world example I've been giving to people who claim it's a-okay and people are just change averse because it's one of the most consistently farked up examples of how random and pointless the design of Windows 8 is. File search.

Windows 7:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

Done. A full-featured Explorer shell opens allowing full access to and manipulation of every found item. Cut, copy, delete, print, see properties, compare by dates and sizes, open with... anything you need to do because it's a full-feature shell meant for displaying and manipulating files.

Now, Windows 8:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

An app pops up full-screen with the results in it.

You can open any single file with a click or you can right-click any single result and open it's location in an explorer shell. Windows 8.1 helpfully adds the option to copy any single result to the clipboard.

If you want to copy or open multiple results, you must snap the result app to one side and then do them one at a time. There is no cutting, deleting or dragging and dropping, nor can you open the properties of the file or view the list in a "details" mode that is useful for, say, comparing files by modified date or size. Clicking allows you to open the result with the default handler, but once a default is set you cannot use an alternate method. For example, if I want to toss a .reg file into Notepad I can't do that from the search results, I have to "Open File Location" and then use the proper 'Open With...' context menu command that would have been available from the start in Windows 7.

Fortunately, Micrfosoft has a cure for all of this! Search before you search!

No, I'm ...


I'll give you all that. You just listed a bunch of features I never personally use.
 
2013-12-09 04:46:59 PM
Why do you guys stick with this fleabitten dog of an operating systems company? It's perverse. Microsoft is a refined horror of the information age. Listen to yourselves, listen to the dissonance. You hate them but you stick with them because you're afraid another one of yourselves will make you feel bad for stepping out of line. Just bite the bullet and use a Mac, or install Linux, or whatever for god's sake! Make a choice to choose!
 
2013-12-09 05:00:56 PM

dangelder: Why do you guys stick with this fleabitten dog of an operating systems company? It's perverse. Microsoft is a refined horror of the information age. Listen to yourselves, listen to the dissonance. You hate them but you stick with them because you're afraid another one of yourselves will make you feel bad for stepping out of line. Just bite the bullet and use a Mac, or install Linux, or whatever for god's sake! Make a choice to choose!


Or not. Build VMs for whatever specific things you want to do. I'm running Win 8.1, but can add VMs for whatever else, like Ubuntu.
 
2013-12-09 05:10:18 PM

skozlaw: Now, Windows 8:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

An app pops up full-screen with the results in it.


umm.. if you simply open an explorer window, and use the search box in the top right of the pane, you get faster results than W7.

W8 is W7 re-shelled, made faster. All functionality is still there. It's entirely possible to never have use the METRO interface, beyond pinning your essentials + a shortcut to Control Panel.

Seriously - I've gone a week without using the METRO side. I like my desktop, and all the start button's functions are there, easily reached, one right click away.
 
2013-12-09 05:55:04 PM

uttertosh: skozlaw: Now, Windows 8:

Start key > type out the search term and wait for it to find the results > hit enter

An app pops up full-screen with the results in it.

umm.. if you simply open an explorer window, and use the search box in the top right of the pane, you get faster results than W7.

W8 is W7 re-shelled, made faster. All functionality is still there. It's entirely possible to never have use the METRO interface, beyond pinning your essentials + a shortcut to Control Panel.

Seriously - I've gone a week without using the METRO side. I like my desktop, and all the start button's functions are there, easily reached, one right click away.


This is EXACTLY how I currently run.
 
2013-12-09 05:58:02 PM

dangelder: Why do you guys stick with this fleabitten dog of an operating systems company? It's perverse. Microsoft is a refined horror of the information age. Listen to yourselves, listen to the dissonance. You hate them but you stick with them because you're afraid another one of yourselves will make you feel bad for stepping out of line. Just bite the bullet and use a Mac, or install Linux, or whatever for god's sake! Make a choice to choose!


There's one reason and one reason only I stick with Windows: games.

Which is why I really hope SteamOS/Steam on Linux takes off.
 
2013-12-09 06:17:50 PM

Rincewind53: I think they're going to see businesses refuse to update.


Want to send a document to someone, in a format that they're certain to be able to open?  Word .doc naturally.  However you'll want to make sure it's saved in compatibility mode if you're using anything newer than Office 2003.

XP on the desktop, a smattering of 7 on the fringes.  Businesses have a glacial upgrade cycle that, really doesn't even have Windows 8 on the horizon let alone mass rollouts of it.  Hell I've seen people veto changes to upgrade Windows 2000 to SP4 from SP1 in recent years because they hadn't finished certifying SP4 would work yet.  That's 13 years give or take and despite all the efforts Microsoft have put in NT4 just will not die.

So yes, I fully expect to see businesses embrace Windows 8 and have it as their standard desktop OS.  In 30 years time.
 
2013-12-09 06:20:09 PM

Maul555: STOP RIGHT THERE! I will never ever ever ever be one of those people that types in the name of a program into a search bar as a way of launching it. I want to see a list and find it on that list... I can manage my own lists, thank you. And no, the visual clusterfark that is the metro screen does not get the job done for me.


THIS. The people who like to search for software to run are probably the type who also A. never partition their drives, B. install EVERYTHING under "program files" (ugh - unless the software won't install otherwise) and C. Install all their software on the same partition as their OS if they do partition.
Give me a list that I can arrange how I like, let me choose. I know where every single piece of software is installed on my machine, every directory. I don't need to search to find the executable on my hard drive, I shouldn't have to search to start it from my desktop.
 
2013-12-09 08:09:59 PM

rewind2846: Give me a list that I can arrange how I like, let me choose. I know where every single piece of software is installed on my machine, every directory. I don't need to search to find the executable on my hard drive, I shouldn't have to search to start it from my desktop.


errrr... so, what you're saying is, that you are unable to make W8 do this?

Even I can make it do that, and I'm still looking for the potato abacus app.
 
2013-12-09 08:12:54 PM

uttertosh: umm.. if you simply open an explorer window


See, this is why I have no tolerance for you Windows 8 shills. You go on and on about how the only thing that's wrong with Windows 8 is that users don't want to learn it, then you get a perfect example of the problem thrown at you and suddenly it's "BUT IF YOU DO EXTRA STUFF TO AVOID THE ACTUAL WINDOWS 8 PART IT'S JUST AS GOOD AS WINDOWS 7!!!!!"

Right. That's the problem. Fark the extra steps. If I have to take extra steps every goddamn time I turn around to avoid some useless "Metro" nonsense then it's NOT just like Windows 7, now is it? Why the bloody hell wouldn't I just keep using Windows 7 if the best argument for 8 is that I can go out of my way to make it just as useful as 7 was by avoiding everything that makes it Windows 8?

Yes, there are a few things in Windows 8 I like. I like the improved file transfer modal, for example. But the few little bits here and there that don't suck are simply massively outweigh by the fact that Metro is a lumbering, obnoxious piece of shiat that constantly gets in the way when I want to do something productive. It's constantly popping in with some half-assed, gimped "app" version of a useful tool when the actual, useful tool is still there, it's just been moved aside and you have to go dig it out.

My computer is not a tablet, so there are no benefits to Metro on it. EVERYTHING Metro offers is a huge negative. That just seriously outweighs the small positives under the hood.
 
2013-12-09 08:21:02 PM
rewind2846: THIS. The people who like to search for software to run are probably the type who also A. never partition their drives, B. install EVERYTHING under "program files" (ugh - unless the software won't install otherwise) and C. Install all their software on the same partition as their OS if they do partition.

I like the way that gnome arranges things.

Software in the repos are categorized according to some top-level categories.

When you install them, they go into a particular category.

But then, you can MOVE them to other categories (or make other categories) as you see fit.

This is, IMO an ideal way for software to work. Provide sane defaults, and then allow the users to customize them.

// unfortunately, newer versions of ubuntu (using unity) want you to type in the names of applications, ugh.

// in windows, I was always re-organizing the locations of items in the menu, because some companies made a bunch of stupid folders for their applications (I'm looking at you adobe, you too apache, etc).
 
2013-12-09 08:21:39 PM

skozlaw: uttertosh: umm.. if you simply open an explorer window

See, this is why I have no tolerance for you Windows 8 shills. You go on and on about how the only thing that's wrong with Windows 8 is that users don't want to learn it, then you get a perfect example of the problem thrown at you and suddenly it's "BUT IF YOU DO EXTRA STUFF TO AVOID THE ACTUAL WINDOWS 8 PART IT'S JUST AS GOOD AS WINDOWS 7!!!!!"

Right. That's the problem. Fark the extra steps. If I have to take extra steps every goddamn time I turn around to avoid some useless "Metro" nonsense then it's NOT just like Windows 7, now is it? Why the bloody hell wouldn't I just keep using Windows 7 if the best argument for 8 is that I can go out of my way to make it just as useful as 7 was by avoiding everything that makes it Windows 8?

Yes, there are a few things in Windows 8 I like. I like the improved file transfer modal, for example. But the few little bits here and there that don't suck are simply massively outweigh by the fact that Metro is a lumbering, obnoxious piece of shiat that constantly gets in the way when I want to do something productive. It's constantly popping in with some half-assed, gimped "app" version of a useful tool when the actual, useful tool is still there, it's just been moved aside and you have to go dig it out.

My computer is not a tablet, so there are no benefits to Metro on it. EVERYTHING Metro offers is a huge negative. That just seriously outweighs the small positives under the hood.


The moronic 'shill' pish you keep spouting aside, may I ask;

So, you've never tweaked any previous OS to your liking? You've always simply ran the OS's you've had previously 'as is' and always been happy with their functionality? Never have you streamlined the OS to your own personal routines? Not one single shortcut? Not one quick link you added yourself to your task bar? It all 'just worked' with no other flaws?
 
2013-12-09 08:23:08 PM
^ example (not from my system).

www.infinitezest.com
 
2013-12-09 09:37:24 PM

uttertosh: skozlaw: uttertosh: umm.. if you simply open an explorer window

See, this is why I have no tolerance for you Windows 8 shills. You go on and on about how the only thing that's wrong with Windows 8 is that users don't want to learn it, then you get a perfect example of the problem thrown at you and suddenly it's "BUT IF YOU DO EXTRA STUFF TO AVOID THE ACTUAL WINDOWS 8 PART IT'S JUST AS GOOD AS WINDOWS 7!!!!!"

Right. That's the problem. Fark the extra steps. If I have to take extra steps every goddamn time I turn around to avoid some useless "Metro" nonsense then it's NOT just like Windows 7, now is it? Why the bloody hell wouldn't I just keep using Windows 7 if the best argument for 8 is that I can go out of my way to make it just as useful as 7 was by avoiding everything that makes it Windows 8?

Yes, there are a few things in Windows 8 I like. I like the improved file transfer modal, for example. But the few little bits here and there that don't suck are simply massively outweigh by the fact that Metro is a lumbering, obnoxious piece of shiat that constantly gets in the way when I want to do something productive. It's constantly popping in with some half-assed, gimped "app" version of a useful tool when the actual, useful tool is still there, it's just been moved aside and you have to go dig it out.

My computer is not a tablet, so there are no benefits to Metro on it. EVERYTHING Metro offers is a huge negative. That just seriously outweighs the small positives under the hood.

The moronic 'shill' pish you keep spouting aside, may I ask;

So, you've never tweaked any previous OS to your liking? You've always simply ran the OS's you've had previously 'as is' and always been happy with their functionality? Never have you streamlined the OS to your own personal routines? Not one single shortcut? Not one quick link you added yourself to your task bar? It all 'just worked' with no other flaws?



On Windows 8 I installed Classic Shell....


And since Classic Shell, and others like Start8, work perfectly and still allow all the touch functions of 8 to work it just proves that Microsoft had no reason to take them away in the first place. They could have added all the Metro stuff but left the Desktop as XP/7 and everyone would have been happy.

But no, the had to try to force everyone to use the new system, even if they had a desktop with no plan to ever install a touch screen.
 
2013-12-09 09:49:16 PM
I'd just like the ability to turn off metro. the rest of the OS is fine.
 
2013-12-09 09:59:59 PM

KRSESQ: Lot of Microsoft shills in here.

When I set up a Windows 8 computer for a client I
1. ask if they want Classic Shell. If the answer is no then
2. I uninstall EVERY Metro app and delete the Windows Store links, then
3. I repopulate that pi$$a$$ start screen with USEFUL items from the All Apps menu, then
4. I create buttons for shutdown, restart, and All Apps and populate the task bar AND start screen.

I am NOT letting my clients waste more than a second with any of that Metro crap. And they thank me by giving my business card to everyone they know.


So great, you're teaching them to not actually learn and grow, but to hide anything that doesn't conform to their expectation. God help them if they ever need to work on another computer.
 
2013-12-09 10:05:02 PM

lordargent: // there are also people who like getting tied up and kicked in the balls. I'm not saying that people who like windows 8 also like to get kicked in the balls, or that using windows 8 is like getting kicked in the balls.


I'd say it's a pretty good bet.

Of course, I have been on the unpopular side of a lot of UI decisions.

/I stopped using Windows after NT 4 proved to be a lot less stable than 3.51.
//Used to use Linux, but there were some apps I needed, so I went with OS X.
 
2013-12-09 10:08:03 PM

saintstryfe: So great, you're teaching them to not actually learn and grow, but to hide anything that doesn't conform to their expectation.


Learning a new language is learning and growing.  Learning to play the guitar is learning and growing.  Taking a photography class is learning and growing.  Remembering to mash the windows key is not learning or growing.
 
2013-12-09 10:24:56 PM

The Larch: saintstryfe: So great, you're teaching them to not actually learn and grow, but to hide anything that doesn't conform to their expectation.

Learning a new language is learning and growing.  Learning to play the guitar is learning and growing.  Taking a photography class is learning and growing.  Remembering to mash the windows key is not learning or growing.


Yeah, Apple really should have just shrunk down OS X to make iOS... oh wait, they realized touch OSes and pointer-controlled OSes work differently so they developed them separately.

And Microsoft never got that.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-10 03:39:01 AM

Flint Ironstag: They could have added all the Metro stuff but left the Desktop as XP/7 and everyone would have been happy.


Yes.

The only reason I bothered to answer him was because he's shouting "LIBS! LIBS! LIBS!" "SHILL! SHILL! SHILL!" at anyone who says they they've found no problem switching to W8, never mind having their working week grind to a halt in a capslock-hyperbole trainwreck caused by the loss of exactly ZERO functionality.

I moved to W8 from XP, and I really like W8 - metro and all!

saintstryfe: Yeah, Apple really should have just shrunk down OS X to make iOS... oh wait, they realized touch OSes and pointer-controlled OSes work differently so they developed them separately.

And Microsoft never got that.


WP8, yeah they did - I have had an iPhone, a sony android, and a nokia 520.  iOS is a slick ui, but lacks control, android is a customizable clone of iOS, WP8 is different enough for me to love and provides cross platform compatibility with metro apps (not perfect, but good) Evernote being my favourite.

Sorry guys, y'all are starting to sound like you've got clouds to shout at.

 
2013-12-10 06:19:20 AM

saintstryfe: Yeah, Apple really should have just shrunk down OS X to make iOS... oh wait, they realized touch OSes and pointer-controlled OSes work differently so they developed them separately.

And Microsoft never got that.


That "two different devices for two different use cases" was a feature of the choice that Jobs and Apple had to make between battery life and CPU capability.  It's nearly to the point where there's no choice necessary anymore.  ARM devices are becoming powerful enough to run applications that traditionally require the power and memory of a desktop, and x86 processors are becoming battery friendly enough that they compete with ARM processors.

This makes it possible to carry one device that can do both things.  Apple doesn't have an operating system to support that kind of device.   In the Apple world, on the mobile side you have iOS, a walled-garden OSlacking the app ecosystem and the features necessary for content creation (like a user accessible filesystem), and on the other you have MacOS, which does everything, but in a pretty large and expensive package.  But it's not the expense - it's the fact that you have multiple devices.

Microsoft does have an OS to support a multi-function device, andyou can bet your ass that the day is coming soon where you'll be able to run Android in a VM inside full-blown linux on a mobile device.

You can also bet your ass that somewhere in Apple there's a converged device under development.
 
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