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(Encyclopedia Astronautica)   "Why didn't the Russians beat the Americans in the moon race? Reviewing the matter with hindsight, it might better be asked -- how did they expect to win? "   (astronautix.com) divider line 62
    More: Interesting, Russians, Americans, Academy of Sciences, moon landings, Russians beat, launch complexes, space researches, Wernher von Braun  
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4981 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Dec 2013 at 3:53 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-09 01:45:51 AM

peterthx: whither_apophis: Sputnik 1 went "beep beep beep"

[www.nndb.com image 286x318]

And I was like "uhhh"?

/it devoured my paper


It was a really good paper.
 
2013-12-09 02:04:13 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: [img.fark.net image 434x550]


www.jkrglobal.com
"Too many engines."

www.lightmasterstudios.co.uk
 
2013-12-09 04:57:03 AM

CigaretteSmokingMan: ecmoRandomNumbers: [img.fark.net image 434x550]
img.fark.net
"Too many engines."


stickerish.com

static.ddmcdn.com

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-09 06:50:15 AM
The engines weren't the problem. the R-7 had already given Korolev the experience he needed to make that huge rocket work (the R-7 must coordinate a total of 21 main engines and 4 verniers at launch). The problem was, like TFA said, the Communist system with its horrible inefficiencies, political competition and nonexistent quality control. N1 died of a swallowed nut and pump defects, not engine coordination trouble.

/Besides the obvious fact that the whole thing had been oversold, they couldn't make a LOR mission with 90 tons to LEO and the Soyuz-derived hardware, they had always planned for EOR until Brezhnev told everyone to take a flying leap, and of course operating on the single most valuable engineer in your WHOLE DAMN EMPIRE with half a bottle of vodak in you and dirty hands.
//Commies. It would be funny if it want so sad.
 
2013-12-09 06:51:14 AM
WASN'T. Damn keyboard
 
2013-12-09 07:35:10 AM

baufan2005: Russia had a rocket ready to go a week before the US.  It's said that their plan was to send Cosmonauts to the moon with no way to return them.  So basically go to the moon so we can be first and die a heroic death for your country.  But that rocket exploded on the launch pad.


According to the article, the N1 was 15 tons short of the payload capacity for TLI. Even assuming a one way trip, it is unlikely to have succeeded and the fact of the matter is that the N1  never had a successful test flight. I'm filing that claim in the same barrel that holds the ones that claim we faked the landings.
 
2013-12-09 08:10:52 AM

kg2095: mark12A: Our Germans were better than their Germans.

They couldn't throw as much money at it as the US could. That was an early indication that their communist system didn't work.


The USSR did have a minor handicap compared to the US, namely that a big chunk of World War Two was fought on their soil.
 
2013-12-09 09:24:01 AM
Well, the one thing that the N1/Soviet program gave were "closed cycle" engines, NK-33s. These were engines that reused the fuel from the gas generator instead of dumping it overboard like the F1 (The black stuff you see on those slow motion Saturn V launches....that's unburned fuel from the gas generator.); these are more efficient performers. US rocket enigneers said it couldn't be done.
 
2013-12-09 09:35:24 AM
This was a depressing thing to read.  Sound like modern military acquisition for DoD.  Except the lack of kidnapping a German rocket scientist.
 
2013-12-09 09:59:35 AM

RoomFullOfMonkeys: optikeye: Really? The first few years of the 'space race' America got it's ass kicked.

It was more like America *seemed* to get its ass kicked. In fact, many of the Russian firsts were publicity stunts and didn't represent significant advances in underlying technology. They also had the advantage of not having to announce their failures. Their program was designed around getting to the low-hanging fruit first, even if it meant wasting effort on technology that didn't have long-term utility. Additionally, their strongest efforts were in the area of making a space station, not a moon landing. This meant they were running a different race than America, with different technological goals.


Yeah, don't let facts get in the way of your USA USA DERP!
 
2013-12-09 10:18:12 AM

Befuddled: kg2095: mark12A: Our Germans were better than their Germans.

They couldn't throw as much money at it as the US could. That was an early indication that their communist system didn't work.

The USSR did have a minor handicap compared to the US, namely that a big chunk of World War Two was fought on their soil.


But they sure added a bunch to it after 1945 ;-)
 
2013-12-09 10:00:27 PM

spawn73: RoomFullOfMonkeys: optikeye: Really? The first few years of the 'space race' America got it's ass kicked.

It was more like America *seemed* to get its ass kicked. In fact, many of the Russian firsts were publicity stunts and didn't represent significant advances in underlying technology. They also had the advantage of not having to announce their failures. Their program was designed around getting to the low-hanging fruit first, even if it meant wasting effort on technology that didn't have long-term utility. Additionally, their strongest efforts were in the area of making a space station, not a moon landing. This meant they were running a different race than America, with different technological goals.

Yeah, don't let facts get in the way of your USA USA DERP!


Eh, spawn73 isn't entirely wrong. Sure we most assuredly got our asses kicked at the beginning of the space race simply because they had better rockets than us. We had nothing like the R7, but it is true that propaganda and a need to achieve firsts took precedence over actually building upon real advances in Russia. Which I think played a part in dooming the Russian space program to failure in its moon attempts.

Examples that come to mind are the fact that the first man in space had to bailout rather than landing with the craft. Or the fact that the Russian's got three people in space first by cheating. They basically shoved three cosmonauts without pressure suits into an updated version of Vostok the Voskhod (You know, because they couldn't fit the pressure suits due to the capsule being too small). Then there is the first spacewalk, which was only managed by a flexible airlock. While the American's could just step out while wearing their suits.

Whatever the case, by 1965 the Americans had a better space program overall and were beginning to overtake the Russians. It didn't hurt that the Americans had to prove themselves to the world under the limelight, while the Russian's could omit failure as necessary. Or that the American's had a structured design capability while the Russian's had competing design bureaus that split the Soviet space program and its resources.
 
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