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(NYPost)   The Democratic Party is out of Centrists: Pat Moynihan, lion of liberalism but also of common sense and a strong military, must be spinning in his grave   (nypost.com) divider line 179
    More: Obvious, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Democratic Party, humans, Christine Quinn, party-line vote, public financing, moderates, Blasio  
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1330 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Dec 2013 at 4:13 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



179 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-08 12:05:01 PM  
Wow. Check out the crazy on that guy. Modern Democrats are 90's Republicans.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-08 12:25:37 PM  
So there are nothing but moderate conservatives in the Democratic party?
 
2013-12-08 12:32:22 PM  
i236.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-08 01:20:14 PM  
When you consider that the GOP has gone over to the radicals, what one might call "the Center" has been shifted. In that sense, what one calls a Centerist position has been altered, and thus, what had been the Centerist position has been turned into, by the folks making the claims, into the "new Left."

What we have, are folks who are looking at policy and politics as narrative. There is only the Right and the Left. It doesn't consider the actual policies, only games played with semantics and if there is a position held by one side, it MUST be AUTOMATICALLY and AXIOMATICALLY opposed, and there is NO middle ground to be considered. Only points scored for causing one side or the other to abandon a position or concede that they've been beaten by raw force of numbers. Not consideration. Not actual politics or negotiation, but simple brute force of bodies on the floor. The positions themselves are moot. If one side is in favor, it MUST be opposed. And that is what is dragging our system of governance down at this point, because it has nothing to do with actual policies, actual people, even real numbers. It's all about image and narrative, and trying to get bodies to throw on the floor to leverage votes to enact things, and let the media spin the result so that their "side" is always correct. The problem is: the radicalized Right has a LOT of think tanks, a lot of media outlets, and a PR machine that is overclocking at this point to keep up. History? That's irrelevant. Actual speeches? Irrelevant. Heck, folks' memories are short, and spin is really the only thing that matters in this political Hellscape.

And that is what folks want. At least on the upper tiers on the Right. Middle ground? Centerists? Those folks only matter if you can get them to cross the aisle, and at this point, the House and Senate are mostly comprised of ideologues who consider negotiation to be beneath them. They want to point fingers and say, "Hey, they won't negotiate!" which means really, "They aren't rolling over and giving us everything we want." It's not about good faith discussions or agreement of principles, it's a winner take all, brute force methodology, and it's driving the discussion to places where folks can claim that the ACA was rammed down OUR THROATS! when the ACA was the compromise. It was very much capitulation to include a LOT of ideas that were authored by the Heritage Foundation, and enacted even by the last GOP Presidential candidate while in his gubernatorial office. And it's done to serve not policy, or the most good for the most people, but to serve narrative, and delay so that folks can extract the most profit in the short term.

And that's the problem. It's all short term thinking. The GOP is serving narrative over policy, because in the short term, it makes sense. Rove and his ilk realized that people DO have short memories, and thus push hot button topics, to provoke reaction. The problem is, that folks become desensitized to such actions after a while, which means you have to ramp up the stimuli to get a reaction again and again over time. Which is what has led us to the place where they NEEDED a TEA Party to get folks "motivated." And keep ramping up the Justification Machine to eleventy, just to stay afloat. And all the while, continue to call this perversion of Conservative thought to a "win at any price" mentality that serves not people, not actual laws, not governance in general, but a narrative that folks can agree upon, or at least continue repeating until a percentage of folks acquiesce that East is West, North is South, and always has been. THAT is the legacy of Reagan. Not the fall of the Evil Empire, but the embrasure of NeoCons as a philosophical force within the party, and an embrasure of their Ivory Tower mentality that INSISTS that if you just repeat a thing long enough, folks will believe it, and thus it will BECOME reality. It is a willful misunderstanding of the principle of subjective reality. And it relies on spin, narrative, and folks continuing to massage said message, because otherwise, they might have to admit that, objectively, they have been backing policies that are NOT in the best interests of the nation.

It isn't a Leftist position to understand what the narrowing of the field of the wealthiest of interests has had detrimental effect on the economy of a good deal of the country. You can't just average economic effect over a state, and proclaim, "Hey, banks in New York City are doing fine, so Batavia is crazy to think that they need anything in the way of economic assistance." You can't simply proclaim that there is NO malfeasance in an industry by changing the rules of what is considered malfeasance, to protect folks facing prosecution, and then clap these "fine and honored citizens" on the back for being so gosh darned ethical.

We NEED Centerists. The problem is, the Democrats are already there--and that was really the brilliance of Bill Clinton, to bring his party to the middle, and thus the ideologues on the Right retreated to be the opposition simply out of "principle"--and the GOP desperately needs to shake up things, and find Centerists of their own. Of course, these folks are considered RINOS who have no place at the table, even if they espouse the principles that the party held for years, before abandoning those positions for increasingly radicalized visions, and who then needed cadres of authors, talking heads, and publishing houses to rebrand those radicalized visions as "Conservative" positions. At this point, I think, we're close to watching the coalitions within the party break apart--putting the Idiot Brigade on the ramparts and right there in the thick of it, where they are readily quoted was a populist thought, but one that is backfiring as these folks INSIST on using that position to keep yammering away. Which, may have a positive effect, in that attrition will winnow out the loudest of idiots, and then the party can point to the losses as a need to keep the Idiots in check. The problem is, that they've elevated so many with their own spin teams as being the "heart and soul" of the party, that if these folks are lost, then the Idiot Brigade may just take their ball and go home, and their voting bloc will go to third party candidates, who will only suck votes away from the Republican side of things.

There are times when I wonder if maybe we should have gone with a Parliamentary system, which wouldn't have eliminated parties, but it might have at least allowed for more than just the polar system that we are gripped with now.
 
2013-12-08 02:08:45 PM  
i44.tinypic.com

I suppose its easy to just talk a few sentences of shiat copypasta at a time if you don't actually have to back up your claims with anything resembling evidence. But then again, it is the NEW YORK POST.
 
2013-12-08 02:12:22 PM  
This is the derp the Republicans, especially the Teabaggers, have been trying to sell for some time to explain why they are being such obstructionist assholes.  "We're just protecting the American people from these out of control libs in the Democrat Party!"

Which ignores the fact that Barack Obama is just barely to the left of Ronald Reagan.  And really only on social issues.
 
2013-12-08 02:34:57 PM  
Today on Republican Projection Theater
 
2013-12-08 02:38:24 PM  
Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.
 
2013-12-08 02:40:34 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, I want dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.


FTFM

Also, I'll say Obama hasn't been a bad president, but so far he really hasn't followed through on his potential either.  He spent far too much of his first term trying to reach across he aisle, and has been gun shy about backing a real liberal agenda outside of social issues.  He's done a good job on gay rights, so I'll give him that, but he could have been so much more.
 
2013-12-08 02:41:08 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.


Why must you repost Mad Libes?

Thats the same bullshiat Republicans say
 
2013-12-08 02:41:44 PM  

cman: TuteTibiImperes: Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.

Why must you repost Mad Libs?

Thats the same bullshiat Republicans say


MAD LIBS, MAD LIBS, farking autocorrect
 
2013-12-08 02:48:36 PM  

cman: TuteTibiImperes: Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.

Why must you repost Mad Libes?

Thats the same bullshiat Republicans say


Having some actual liberals around would be a refreshing change
 
2013-12-08 02:50:16 PM  
Centrist Democrats, otherwise known as Republicans.
Centrist Republicans, otherwise known as unicorns.
 
2013-12-08 02:57:12 PM  

cman: TuteTibiImperes: Wow, there's so much wrong in that piece I don't even know where to begin.

If anything, the problem with the Democratic party has been that they've been too moderate, to willing to compromise, and too much on the side of Wall St, Hollywood, and other big business interests.

It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.

I don't want centrists, dyed-in-the-wool liberals who will pull us out of wars when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to benefit the people through single payer instead of to benefit insurance companies like the ACA (not that the ACA isn't better than what we had before, but that's more of an indictment against our previous system than praise for the ACA), and will take on Wall Street, Hollywood, Comcast, Walmart, etc, and to give us banking laws that benefit and protect the people, IP and copyright law that builds the public domain back up and protects a broader interpretation of fair use, real net neutrality along with mandatory line sharing for more real competition amongst  ISPs, and a minimum wage that is a living wage.

I want someone who wears being called a socialist like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 1%, but so what? Fark 'em'.

Why must you repost Mad Libes?

Thats the same bullshiat Republicans say


If the Republicans said the same thing it would be great - then we'd all agree and could get the country on the right track.  Unfortunately, they say the exact opposite.  True, they're trying to push themselves farther and farther to the right, and I'm advocating for the Democrats to push harder to the left, but both the Democratic and Republican parties have been moving further and further to the right.

The GOP is calling for a more extreme version of the same, I'm calling for the Democrats to reverse course and actually try being liberal again.  I'm calling for a government that is for the working and middle class instead of the wealthy and corporations.
 
2013-12-08 04:16:54 PM  
www.animated-gifs.eu
 
2013-12-08 04:17:52 PM  
The Democratic Party has gone so far left

So far left that GOP ideas from the early-90s are radical socialism destroying America.

----------
How far to the right of Joseph de Maistre do you have to be to think that the democratic party is too liberal?
 
2013-12-08 04:25:00 PM  

ScaryBottles: [www.animated-gifs.eu image 200x165]


FTFA Many want the Constitution scrapped or stretched beyond recognition.

yep projection of the most blatant sort.
 
2013-12-08 04:26:11 PM  
I see, it all makes sense now. I thought the Republican party had gone to the Right, but it only appears that way because of how far to the extreme Left the Democrats have gone. Presumably in part because all the moderate Democrats left to join the bi-partisan, grass-roots, centrist Tea Party movement.
 
2013-12-08 04:29:58 PM  

Somacandra: [i44.tinypic.com image 445x298]

I suppose its easy to just talk a few sentences of shiat copypasta at a time if you don't actually have to back up your claims with anything resembling evidence. But then again, it is the NEW YORK POST.


What's that from, Top Secret?
 
2013-12-08 04:30:00 PM  
We get it, he's black.
 
2013-12-08 04:30:36 PM  
I believe that if we keep pushing the Teatards through the event horizon of stupid, they'll come out on the other side and be radical lefties.

"As President, I believe a balanced approach to energy policy is in order - one that protects domestic fuel sources and only causes minimal effect on the precious beauty of our country"

"LIKE HELL YOU DO! THERE SHOULD BE NO DRILLING ANYWHERE! WE NEED TO PROTECT THEM THERE ANIMALS FROM MONSTERS LIKE OBAMA!!"
 
2013-12-08 04:31:40 PM  
America is too stupid to realize its dying from starvation by fascism. Most of you jokers are too young or stupid to get or do anything about this situation. I understand that this happens all the time in republics. Just try to protect yourselves and watch the collapse from a distance.
 
2013-12-08 04:35:55 PM  

born_yesterday: We get it, he's black.



Yeah, that's the ticket
 
2013-12-08 04:41:56 PM  

Curious: ScaryBottles: [www.animated-gifs.eu image 200x165]

FTFA Many want the Constitution scrapped or stretched beyond recognition.

yep projection of the most blatant sort.


Yeah you're probably right, the New York post is noted for their journalistic savvy and unimpeachable integrity.
I mean its not like the author has an ax to grind or anything.......

http://nypost.com/2013/11/27/dems-following-obama-over-the-cliff/

http://nypost.com/2013/11/24/obama-has-no-hope-to-fix-fractured-amer ic a/

http://nypost.com/2013/11/17/the-wheels-have-fallen-off-the-obama-ba nd wagon/

http://nypost.com/2013/11/13/obamas-latest-broken-promise-is-destroy in g-his-credibility/

http://nypost.com/2013/11/10/new-york-times-obama-cheerleading-harms -t he-nation/

http://nypost.com/2013/11/05/de-blasio-wins-with-obamas-babyish-utop ia nism/

Thats just the first page.........

Man go back to Yahoo news you're not ready to play with the grown ups yet.
 
2013-12-08 04:42:37 PM  

vpb: So there are nothing but moderate conservatives in the Democratic party?


True. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat. Though the senior senator from MA is a damn good role model for where the party should be.
 
2013-12-08 04:45:05 PM  

hubiestubert: There are times when I wonder if maybe we should have gone with a Parliamentary system, which wouldn't have eliminated parties, but it might have at least allowed for more than just the polar system that we are gripped with now.


You've left your blog behind. That's kind of a shame, though I can still watch with interest your posts here.
 
2013-12-08 04:46:13 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: It's only been in the last year or so that the party has apparently grown a spine, as seen by the handling of the shutdown situation and the nuclear option regarding senate filibusters.


I just hope he gets off his ass and farking fills every single damn open appointment there is.
 
2013-12-08 04:53:46 PM  
There's no left left on the left but the far left?

[ohwaityou'reserious]

[hahaohwow]

[overtonwindow]
 
2013-12-08 04:56:21 PM  
Do any of you people know what it's like being the country that doesn't keep up? You people aren't keeping up. Scandinavia is making America look like the USSR. You get that, right?
 
2013-12-08 05:04:21 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Do any of you people know what it's like being the country that doesn't keep up? You people aren't keeping up. Scandinavia is making America look like the USSR. You get that, right?



Scandinavia is always cold and everyone's home have the same Ikea made furniture.
 
2013-12-08 05:06:10 PM  
This is less a political discussion and more a topic for Newton's first law of motion as the GOP drift farther and father away while screaming at everyone else for moving away from them.
 
2013-12-08 05:06:36 PM  

Phil Moskowitz: Do any of you people know what it's like being the country that doesn't keep up? You people aren't keeping up. Scandinavia is making America look like the USSR. You get that, right?


Look, we voted for a third-world kleptocracy that allows the wealthy to further line their pockets, and by gum, that's what we're going to get! We will compromise on everything, except for the idea that the people who have the most should be able to have every advantage to get more! That's  America! That's the nation I signed up to be a part of, and I'll be damned before I let some progressivists build us decent infrastructure, a modern education system, and an accessible and sane health care system which has been shown to work in other nations. If we let people like you make decisions, people might start using public transportation or *shudder*  walk to work.
 
2013-12-08 05:07:22 PM  
When I first heard the claim, I thought it was a mistake or hoax. A talking head was describing a raging war in the Democratic Party between progressives and centrists.
Centrist Democrats? Aren't they already extinct?


Yeeaaahhhh, right. Sounds like a desperate Rovian conservative trying to take the problems of the GOP and suggest that they are actually problems of the Dems.
 
2013-12-08 05:09:15 PM  

hubiestubert: Wall of text


Dude, I almost always agree with your comments, but you should consider trying to be more concise.
 
2013-12-08 05:10:18 PM  

Yakk: This is less a political discussion and more a topic for Newton's first law of motion as the GOP drift farther and father away while screaming at everyone else for moving away from them.



Actually, neither side has budged an inch.  It's just a matter of your patience has been stretched to its limits or not
 
2013-12-08 05:16:47 PM  
I can't wait until the GOP begins stoning adulterers and privatizing the water supply and Ted Cruz 2013 is the standard bearer for American liberalism.
 
2013-12-08 05:18:35 PM  
Oh, please. The Democratic Party has gone so far left ..

Oh, please.  I'm Canadian.  American politicians don't know what the left is.
 
2013-12-08 05:19:36 PM  
Centrists are far to radical for the democratic party.

imageshack.us
 
2013-12-08 05:19:53 PM  

theknuckler_33: hubiestubert: Wall of text

Dude, I almost always agree with your comments, but you should consider trying to be more concise.


Yo, this be some whack ass bullsh*t...

That better?
 
2013-12-08 05:20:44 PM  

CorporatePerson: I can't wait until the GOP begins stoning adulterers and privatizing the water supply and Ted Cruz 2013 is the standard bearer for American liberalism.


And somehow denying that the GOP ever stood for those "radical and dangerous" liberal positions.
 
2013-12-08 05:20:59 PM  

Ned Stark: Centrists are far to radical for the democratic party.

[imageshack.us image 414x640]


Jesus that makes Communist propaganda look sane
 
2013-12-08 05:21:48 PM  
When I think of centrists the NY Post is the first paper that comes to mind.
 
2013-12-08 05:23:04 PM  

Ned Stark: Centrists are far to radical for the democratic party.


SVR.
 
2013-12-08 05:25:37 PM  

ScaryBottles: Man go back to Yahoo news you're not ready to play with the grown ups yet.


dude WTF. i was agreeing with you. or what i took your position to be.
 
2013-12-08 05:26:28 PM  

hubiestubert: theknuckler_33: hubiestubert: Wall of text

Dude, I almost always agree with your comments, but you should consider trying to be more concise.

Yo, this be some whack ass bullsh*t...

That better?


Well, if polar opposites are the only options... yea.
 
2013-12-08 05:31:24 PM  

Curious: ScaryBottles: Man go back to Yahoo news you're not ready to play with the grown ups yet.

dude WTF. i was agreeing with you. or what i took your position to be.


sorry its still early for me...........

hangover. first one in literally 2 years.
 
2013-12-08 05:33:03 PM  
eat a farking dick submitter
 
2013-12-08 05:35:41 PM  

Jackson Herring: eat a farking dick submitter


This kind of eloquence is why you are favorite

no sarc///
 
2013-12-08 05:37:17 PM  
If anything, the problem with the Republican Party has been that they've been too moderate, too willing to compromise, and too much on the side of big government and big business.

It's only been in the past few years that the party has grown a spine, as evidenced by the rise of the Tea Party and the election of actual leaders like Ted Cruz.

I don't want centrists, I want dyed-in-the-wool conservatives who will cut spending when they say they will, revamp the health insurance industry to promote market competition instead of more government subsidies and redistribution (not that the ACA is as bad as the system liberals really want, but that's more of an indictment against liberalism than praise for the ACA), and will take on Obama, Hollywood, gays, atheists, etc, and roll back regulations that hurt business, outlaw the degrading filth emanating from our TVs and computers, crack down on anti-American speech, deport illegal immigrants, and eliminate the minimum wage to promote job growth.

I want someone who wears being called a oligarch like a badge of honor, and who isn't afraid to say 'Yes, this is going to suck for the 47%, but so what? Fark 'em'.
 
2013-12-08 05:38:07 PM  
Actually the Democratic Party has plenty of good ideas.

If only people would support them instead of "NO U BOTH SIDES BAD" when it comes to political matters.

We'd be so much better off.
 
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