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(ABC 15)   New study says that eating healthy costs only an extra $1.50 a day, or roughly the cost of the gasoline it takes to drive past McDonald's   (abc15.com) divider line 30
    More: Interesting, Mcdonald, healthy eating, gas, costs  
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1180 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Dec 2013 at 11:27 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2013-12-08 10:15:37 AM  
11 votes:

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.
2013-12-08 12:57:10 PM  
8 votes:
I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that
2013-12-08 11:58:41 AM  
7 votes:
Do we have to go through this AGAIN?

Aside from factors that have already been mentioned like the fact that $1.50/person/day is actually a substantial amount for some people and that cooking healthy food takes time, poor people may not have access to healthy food in their neighborhoods or transportation to get to grocery stores or markets, and may not have facilities for cooking healthy food.

It's really easy for people who've never been there to blame the poor for what seem like bad choices. It's not enough to pull that stunt where a report or politician tries to live on a food stamp/welfare budget for a little while. Really, spend a few months relying on public transit to get to two crap jobs while living in a rooming house in a shiatty neighbourhood before you go off on how easy it is to eat well if you just bake your own organic bread and soak dried beans or some shiat.

We need a living wage, and disability and unemployment benefits high enough to actually allow people to eat healthy food. And public programs can help - Toronto actually does some of this pretty well with projects like food share that help bring reasonably-priced healthy produce to all neighbourhoods in the city, and community gardens, and communal kitchen programs at community centres so people can prepare food together and bring it home. Crap like this study makes it look like everything is about individual responsibility and overlooks deep structural problems.
2013-12-08 12:29:36 PM  
5 votes:
$1.50/person/day X family of 4 X 7 days=$42/week or $189/month.

There have been times in my life where coming up with an extra $189 per month would have been, literally, impossible without resorting to theft or prostitution.
2013-12-08 09:27:28 AM  
5 votes:
Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.
2013-12-08 06:39:30 AM  
5 votes:
New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.
2013-12-08 05:55:44 AM  
5 votes:
A link to the study and some actual examples of meals and prices would help to put the article into perspective.

Also, I dont think those who are the poorest are making choices between what is healthier lean hamburger or fatty hamburger in their casserole; theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-08 12:00:12 PM  
3 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.


Except that SNAP doesn't buy McDonald's, and $1.50 per day is more than SNAP pays per meal.  You would have to give up one meal per day to come up with that $1.50 per day.
2013-12-08 11:49:57 AM  
3 votes:

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.


Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.
2013-12-08 05:26:58 PM  
2 votes:

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


This the the way I feel.  It is unfortunate that others that call themselves Christians don't get this.  Morality really has no dependence on religion.  The moral choice is to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, help the oppressed.  Sure Christ taught this, but it isn't just him.  There are some christian organizations that actually do this right (there are also plenty of secular or Jewish or Islamic orgs too.)

I donate my money to one such organization, not because it is Christian (even though I am) but because they provide food, shelter, legal aide, you name it because it is the right thing they do.  They are "foolish" with their money by some standards.  But ultimately, I don't care.  I want them to be foolish.  I don't want "ROI" in a strictly capitalistic sense.  I want  help to get to those who need it.
2013-12-08 02:58:09 PM  
2 votes:

jjorsett: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

By and large, I don't think even the poor are that lacking in downtime. As for beans, it's not like you're having to stand there watching while they soak, and you can certainly make a larger amount ahead so that one prep interval serves for several meals. I think the convenience factor (a polite term for laziness) and taste are most of why people gravitate toward fast food.  What's not to like about quick carbs and fat?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guess how I know you have never been, or even known someone, really poor.
I work 4 jobs and take classes. Frequently I have less than 30 minutes to make and eat dinner before I have to be gone again.

When you think about prep time, think about all the conveniences you use. (You are just lazy for having a refrigerator and not going and getting ice for a cooler. And a blender is just laziness - you could do that with a spoon and some elbow grease!). Poor people may not have access to those. When computing the costs, people forget to put a value on the time it takes - you could be out earning a wage instead of dinkin around in the kitchen. Take the amount of time it takes to make the food (start to finish - no assuming you start out with everything chopped, skinned or otherwise prepared like cook books do) and multiply that times your hourly wage. Add that in to the price of the supplies. NOW compare it to fast food costs.
2013-12-08 12:44:36 PM  
2 votes:

BullBearMS: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

If you want to be able to make fresh food quickly, you should really, really get a pressure cooker.

You can make dried bans without soaking in under an hour. Fresh veggies cook in a fraction of the time. Inexpensive tough cuts of meat become tender enough to fall apart in no time at all compared to any other method.

They got a bad rap right after WWII when cheap, badly made pressure cookers started exploding, but a modern unit has more safety features than you can shake a stick at.

Between a pressure cooker and a crock pot, you can pretty easily manage to work for a living and still have time to cook healthy food.
Really, the problem in America is that fresh produce is entirely too expensive. If you have an asian marketplace nearby, be sure to check out their produce section. They are often much, much cheaper.


This is because we subsidize everything EXCEPT fruits and green vegetables. We subsidize corn and meat.
2013-12-08 12:16:40 PM  
2 votes:

angrycrank: Do we have to go through this AGAIN?

Aside from factors that have already been mentioned like the fact that $1.50/person/day is actually a substantial amount for some people and that cooking healthy food takes time, poor people may not have access to healthy food in their neighborhoods or transportation to get to grocery stores or markets, and may not have facilities for cooking healthy food.

It's really easy for people who've never been there to blame the poor for what seem like bad choices. It's not enough to pull that stunt where a report or politician tries to live on a food stamp/welfare budget for a little while. Really, spend a few months relying on public transit to get to two crap jobs while living in a rooming house in a shiatty neighbourhood before you go off on how easy it is to eat well if you just bake your own organic bread and soak dried beans or some shiat.

We need a living wage, and disability and unemployment benefits high enough to actually allow people to eat healthy food. And public programs can help - Toronto actually does some of this pretty well with projects like food share that help bring reasonably-priced healthy produce to all neighbourhoods in the city, and community gardens, and communal kitchen programs at community centres so people can prepare food together and bring it home. Crap like this study makes it look like everything is about individual responsibility and overlooks deep structural problems.


This.

See the first episode of  30 days where Morgan Spurlock has to live on minimum wage for a month.  Powerful stuff.  You find that the reason people make "poor" choices is because they are actually the only rational choice.   I
2013-12-08 11:54:17 AM  
2 votes:

Fark_Guy_Rob: I guess it really depends on the individual and what food they are replacing.

Dropping McDonald's, Subway, and the local pizza shops from my lunch menu saves me something like $140 per month.  And I'm replacing it with $20-30 worth of bagged lunches.
In a typical week, the wife and I would pick up fast-food for dinner 1-2 nights a week and then a dinner out at relatively cheap restaurant.  Something like $225 per month ($15 for fast food 1.5x per week, $30 for dinner at a restaurant 1x per week == .$225 per month)

Conservatively, I'm saving $300 per month and I have to pay for 13 dinners for my wife and I.  That's $23 per meal.  In my experience our 'healthier' alternatives cost way, way, way less than that.  A bag of frozen chicken breasts, rice, and something green is awfully cheap.  We'd get whole chickens too and that'd last 3-4 dinners.

For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.


how in the world do you make chicken, rice and fresh veggies taste worse than fast food?
2013-12-08 10:35:26 AM  
2 votes:
Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.
2013-12-08 10:16:19 PM  
1 votes:

acohn: Frederick: theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.

Apparently, you don't know that food stamps/SNAP debit cards can't be used for prepared foods?


Apparently you've never worked at McDonalds.  Most stores give their employees food credits during their shift, designed for lunch breaks.  But when I worked there that policy was flexible and employees often fed their kids with those credits.  YMMV

People who work at restaurants often eat from work for cheap out of necessity.
2013-12-08 09:24:48 PM  
1 votes:
The wife always gets a $50 wal mart gift card from her company for Xmas so we go to wal mart and buy groceries once a year. Today was that day and we noticed the lack of quality fruits and vegetables. We don't go to some fancy whole foods place either. we shop at Kroger and the difference in fresh vegetables between Even Kroger and Wal Mart is crazy. I can't imagine the difference between that and  a grocery store in some inner city ghetto. Healthy eating is about access and opportunity
2013-12-08 09:02:27 PM  
1 votes:
All those people going on about SNAP being supplemental? Know how I know you've never been poor enough to have to choose between paying the electricity bill and eating?
2013-12-08 07:57:15 PM  
1 votes:

Chameleon: $1.50/person/day X family of 4 X 7 days=$42/week or $189/month.

There have been times in my life where coming up with an extra $189 per month would have been, literally, impossible without resorting to theft or prostitution.


I should give you my number -just in case.

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


I like you.
This world is not ready for someone as enlightened and evolved as you.
2013-12-08 05:50:56 PM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.


My friends who did a whole-30 paleo challenge, and shopped seasonal, frugal, manager special, etc....couldn't afford to keep doing it after the whole 30 challenge. Even shopping smart, and hitting in-season stuff, and manager specials, the 'no processed foods' thing is just expensive. Everything is processed.
2013-12-08 03:52:07 PM  
1 votes:

RyansPrivates: You find that the reason people make "poor" choices is because they are actually the only rational choice.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS x infinity.

Holy shiat, I have this conversation with everyone.

Person: "Why don't you do X?"
Me: "Because Y."
Person: "So Z, A, B?"
Me: "Yeah, but CDE."

and so on. Eventually the person stops because it seems like I'm being defeatist. It's my reality, you r-tard. Yes, it's farking complicated. YOU try dealing with it as well as I have for as long as I have.

I think being extremely poor and being extremely rich are some of the biggest tests of character a person can ever go through. Either way, the temptation (and the justification!) to become a criminal is very. very. very. easy to give into.
2013-12-08 02:49:29 PM  
1 votes:
When you haven't enough
Decisions get tough.


People are willing to judge or advise the poor in complete ignorance of their living conditions and the constraints on their actions to help themselves. A lot of people are moralizing bastards and they are not helping. Some of these are all the usual suspects--Scrouges, billionaires, conservatives, others are liberals and thus ostensibly trying to help. Ignorance doesn't help though. It doesn't help to do things for people in the belief that they are stupid and helpless, for example.

I have seen poverty around me and I have lived on low incomes for a considerable time before gettting a decent paying permanent job. I know something but perhaps not a lot about what it is like to be poor. My special circumstances have allowed me to see a whole range of social conditions. My rural family is close to all classes of people from the richest to the poorest. I mean we have neighbours, friends, family, and business partners, employees and associates from billionaires to white trash and even natives, from old political families to new arrivals.

Judge not, least ye be judged, for that measure you mete shall be meted out to you.

I found, while poor, that two of the best friends a person trying to eat on nothing a week was a five pound bag of potatoes (the quality is abominable from low end grocery stores) and a three pound bag of good eating apples (I like Royal Galas, McIntosh, or Spartans, among others).

When you are sick of eating apples, you can use a bit of cinnamon and sugar if you have it, and bake them.

Potatoes can be eaten with the skin if in good shape or peeled and roasted or boiled. You can make your own french fries with cooking oil. This can be done with less oil if you do it in the oven or a frying pan.

Lots of nutrition for $3 a bag or $2.50-$5.00 for the potatoes.

A bag of smallish apples will give you two a day for a cost of 25 cents each. A bag of potatoes will, even with a large loss due to damage and spoilag, meet a big chunk of your caloric requirements for a week.

For $1.50 a day you can easily add both to your diet and drop a lot of junk food snacks and some meals. Don't large size it.

The other good things to buy are the crap that poor old people live on: tea, bread, peanut butter, milk, cookies (especially the healthier kinds), jam (surprisingly nourishing, what with all that pectin--soluble fruit fibre), and a tin of tuna or salmon. Old Age Pensioners know how to live on nothing and feed a cat as well. Bless them and be as like them as you can.
2013-12-08 02:03:05 PM  
1 votes:

ThrobblefootSpectre: Getting the word out that eating healthy isn't only for the wealthy is a good thing. It's like a lot of people are actually angry that it is only $1.50 more a day to eat healthy.


No, it implies that it's a simple thing to remedy that makes people angry.  It's based in ignorance and/or stupidity, this naive over-simplification.

Adding $1.50 a day to wages will not necessarily improve one's health.  It is a much more complex issue and people write it off as if it's not.  That is what gets people's panties in a bind.  It's too much "let them eat cake".  If you can't see that, you're very likely part of the problem.
2013-12-08 01:06:48 PM  
1 votes:

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.


Well, see, it's simple.  If you love America, you have to first give no shiats about the people who are America.  Or something.
2013-12-08 12:34:25 PM  
1 votes:

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


If you want to be able to make fresh food quickly, you should really, really get a pressure cooker.

You can make dried bans without soaking in under an hour. Fresh veggies cook in a fraction of the time. Inexpensive tough cuts of meat become tender enough to fall apart in no time at all compared to any other method.

They got a bad rap right after WWII when cheap, badly made pressure cookers started exploding, but a modern unit has more safety features than you can shake a stick at.

Between a pressure cooker and a crock pot, you can pretty easily manage to work for a living and still have time to cook healthy food.
Really, the problem in America is that fresh produce is entirely too expensive. If you have an asian marketplace nearby, be sure to check out their produce section. They are often much, much cheaper.
2013-12-08 11:54:33 AM  
1 votes:

jake_lex: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.


We would rather pay higher taxes for people to live off the government on welfare than make businesses pay a living wage. We no longer value work enough to make it pay.

Because freedom.
2013-12-08 11:51:47 AM  
1 votes:

I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.


Alright, I think this about wraps it up.
2013-12-08 11:46:33 AM  
1 votes:
I guess it really depends on the individual and what food they are replacing.

Dropping McDonald's, Subway, and the local pizza shops from my lunch menu saves me something like $140 per month.  And I'm replacing it with $20-30 worth of bagged lunches.
In a typical week, the wife and I would pick up fast-food for dinner 1-2 nights a week and then a dinner out at relatively cheap restaurant.  Something like $225 per month ($15 for fast food 1.5x per week, $30 for dinner at a restaurant 1x per week == .$225 per month)

Conservatively, I'm saving $300 per month and I have to pay for 13 dinners for my wife and I.  That's $23 per meal.  In my experience our 'healthier' alternatives cost way, way, way less than that.  A bag of frozen chicken breasts, rice, and something green is awfully cheap.  We'd get whole chickens too and that'd last 3-4 dinners.

For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.
2013-12-08 11:42:59 AM  
1 votes:

Endive Wombat: My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.


Depends what you're getting, and where you live of course. Sure, if you're always buying the same stuff it can be expensive if the items are out of season in your area. Right now root vegetables are plenty if you're in the North. Rutabaga is my favorite, and really cheap too. Cubed rutabaga, couple of potatoes, celery root, onions and carrots makes a nice vegetable soup or base for other dishes.
2013-12-08 09:43:14 AM  
1 votes:
realfoodblog.com
 
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