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(ABC 15)   New study says that eating healthy costs only an extra $1.50 a day, or roughly the cost of the gasoline it takes to drive past McDonald's   (abc15.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Mcdonald, healthy eating, gas, costs  
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1185 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Dec 2013 at 11:27 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-08 05:55:44 AM  
A link to the study and some actual examples of meals and prices would help to put the article into perspective.

Also, I dont think those who are the poorest are making choices between what is healthier lean hamburger or fatty hamburger in their casserole; theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.
 
2013-12-08 06:39:30 AM  
New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.
 
2013-12-08 09:27:28 AM  
Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.
 
2013-12-08 09:43:14 AM  
realfoodblog.com
 
2013-12-08 10:15:37 AM  

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.
 
2013-12-08 10:35:26 AM  
Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.
 
2013-12-08 10:51:20 AM  
And how much is the Brooklyn Bridge?
 
2013-12-08 11:31:06 AM  
A lethargic population is the key to our control
Who'd rather watch someone's life on tv
than participate in their own
Mentally they feel helpless
Physically they just give up
We priced the healthy food so high
they can only buy sodapop
 
2013-12-08 11:42:59 AM  

Endive Wombat: My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.


Depends what you're getting, and where you live of course. Sure, if you're always buying the same stuff it can be expensive if the items are out of season in your area. Right now root vegetables are plenty if you're in the North. Rutabaga is my favorite, and really cheap too. Cubed rutabaga, couple of potatoes, celery root, onions and carrots makes a nice vegetable soup or base for other dishes.
 
2013-12-08 11:46:33 AM  
I guess it really depends on the individual and what food they are replacing.

Dropping McDonald's, Subway, and the local pizza shops from my lunch menu saves me something like $140 per month.  And I'm replacing it with $20-30 worth of bagged lunches.
In a typical week, the wife and I would pick up fast-food for dinner 1-2 nights a week and then a dinner out at relatively cheap restaurant.  Something like $225 per month ($15 for fast food 1.5x per week, $30 for dinner at a restaurant 1x per week == .$225 per month)

Conservatively, I'm saving $300 per month and I have to pay for 13 dinners for my wife and I.  That's $23 per meal.  In my experience our 'healthier' alternatives cost way, way, way less than that.  A bag of frozen chicken breasts, rice, and something green is awfully cheap.  We'd get whole chickens too and that'd last 3-4 dinners.

For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.
 
2013-12-08 11:49:57 AM  

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.


Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.
 
2013-12-08 11:51:47 AM  

I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.


Alright, I think this about wraps it up.
 
2013-12-08 11:53:48 AM  

Frederick: actual examples of meals and prices


Don't worry, the Fark Bean Gourmet Brigade should be here shortly to pull those prices and meals right out of their asses for ya.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-08 11:54:02 AM  
It's pretty obvious if you have ever done any shopping.  There is a reason that the 70% lean hamburger is cheaper than the 95% lean, it's because the cheaper one is 30% fat.
 
2013-12-08 11:54:17 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I guess it really depends on the individual and what food they are replacing.

Dropping McDonald's, Subway, and the local pizza shops from my lunch menu saves me something like $140 per month.  And I'm replacing it with $20-30 worth of bagged lunches.
In a typical week, the wife and I would pick up fast-food for dinner 1-2 nights a week and then a dinner out at relatively cheap restaurant.  Something like $225 per month ($15 for fast food 1.5x per week, $30 for dinner at a restaurant 1x per week == .$225 per month)

Conservatively, I'm saving $300 per month and I have to pay for 13 dinners for my wife and I.  That's $23 per meal.  In my experience our 'healthier' alternatives cost way, way, way less than that.  A bag of frozen chicken breasts, rice, and something green is awfully cheap.  We'd get whole chickens too and that'd last 3-4 dinners.

For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.


how in the world do you make chicken, rice and fresh veggies taste worse than fast food?
 
2013-12-08 11:54:33 AM  

jake_lex: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.


We would rather pay higher taxes for people to live off the government on welfare than make businesses pay a living wage. We no longer value work enough to make it pay.

Because freedom.
 
2013-12-08 11:54:47 AM  

qorkfiend: I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.

Alright, I think this about wraps it up.


Why won't anyone think of the poor Kardasshians' tax cuts that are hurting because of this?

nathantimmel.com
 
2013-12-08 11:58:41 AM  
Do we have to go through this AGAIN?

Aside from factors that have already been mentioned like the fact that $1.50/person/day is actually a substantial amount for some people and that cooking healthy food takes time, poor people may not have access to healthy food in their neighborhoods or transportation to get to grocery stores or markets, and may not have facilities for cooking healthy food.

It's really easy for people who've never been there to blame the poor for what seem like bad choices. It's not enough to pull that stunt where a report or politician tries to live on a food stamp/welfare budget for a little while. Really, spend a few months relying on public transit to get to two crap jobs while living in a rooming house in a shiatty neighbourhood before you go off on how easy it is to eat well if you just bake your own organic bread and soak dried beans or some shiat.

We need a living wage, and disability and unemployment benefits high enough to actually allow people to eat healthy food. And public programs can help - Toronto actually does some of this pretty well with projects like food share that help bring reasonably-priced healthy produce to all neighbourhoods in the city, and community gardens, and communal kitchen programs at community centres so people can prepare food together and bring it home. Crap like this study makes it look like everything is about individual responsibility and overlooks deep structural problems.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-08 12:00:12 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.


Except that SNAP doesn't buy McDonald's, and $1.50 per day is more than SNAP pays per meal.  You would have to give up one meal per day to come up with that $1.50 per day.
 
2013-12-08 12:16:40 PM  

angrycrank: Do we have to go through this AGAIN?

Aside from factors that have already been mentioned like the fact that $1.50/person/day is actually a substantial amount for some people and that cooking healthy food takes time, poor people may not have access to healthy food in their neighborhoods or transportation to get to grocery stores or markets, and may not have facilities for cooking healthy food.

It's really easy for people who've never been there to blame the poor for what seem like bad choices. It's not enough to pull that stunt where a report or politician tries to live on a food stamp/welfare budget for a little while. Really, spend a few months relying on public transit to get to two crap jobs while living in a rooming house in a shiatty neighbourhood before you go off on how easy it is to eat well if you just bake your own organic bread and soak dried beans or some shiat.

We need a living wage, and disability and unemployment benefits high enough to actually allow people to eat healthy food. And public programs can help - Toronto actually does some of this pretty well with projects like food share that help bring reasonably-priced healthy produce to all neighbourhoods in the city, and community gardens, and communal kitchen programs at community centres so people can prepare food together and bring it home. Crap like this study makes it look like everything is about individual responsibility and overlooks deep structural problems.


This.

See the first episode of  30 days where Morgan Spurlock has to live on minimum wage for a month.  Powerful stuff.  You find that the reason people make "poor" choices is because they are actually the only rational choice.   I
 
2013-12-08 12:29:36 PM  
$1.50/person/day X family of 4 X 7 days=$42/week or $189/month.

There have been times in my life where coming up with an extra $189 per month would have been, literally, impossible without resorting to theft or prostitution.
 
2013-12-08 12:34:25 PM  

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


If you want to be able to make fresh food quickly, you should really, really get a pressure cooker.

You can make dried bans without soaking in under an hour. Fresh veggies cook in a fraction of the time. Inexpensive tough cuts of meat become tender enough to fall apart in no time at all compared to any other method.

They got a bad rap right after WWII when cheap, badly made pressure cookers started exploding, but a modern unit has more safety features than you can shake a stick at.

Between a pressure cooker and a crock pot, you can pretty easily manage to work for a living and still have time to cook healthy food.
Really, the problem in America is that fresh produce is entirely too expensive. If you have an asian marketplace nearby, be sure to check out their produce section. They are often much, much cheaper.
 
2013-12-08 12:44:36 PM  

BullBearMS: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

If you want to be able to make fresh food quickly, you should really, really get a pressure cooker.

You can make dried bans without soaking in under an hour. Fresh veggies cook in a fraction of the time. Inexpensive tough cuts of meat become tender enough to fall apart in no time at all compared to any other method.

They got a bad rap right after WWII when cheap, badly made pressure cookers started exploding, but a modern unit has more safety features than you can shake a stick at.

Between a pressure cooker and a crock pot, you can pretty easily manage to work for a living and still have time to cook healthy food.
Really, the problem in America is that fresh produce is entirely too expensive. If you have an asian marketplace nearby, be sure to check out their produce section. They are often much, much cheaper.


This is because we subsidize everything EXCEPT fruits and green vegetables. We subsidize corn and meat.
 
2013-12-08 12:45:14 PM  

Katie98_KT: Fark_Guy_Rob: I guess it really depends on the individual and what food they are replacing.

Dropping McDonald's, Subway, and the local pizza shops from my lunch menu saves me something like $140 per month.  And I'm replacing it with $20-30 worth of bagged lunches.
In a typical week, the wife and I would pick up fast-food for dinner 1-2 nights a week and then a dinner out at relatively cheap restaurant.  Something like $225 per month ($15 for fast food 1.5x per week, $30 for dinner at a restaurant 1x per week == .$225 per month)

Conservatively, I'm saving $300 per month and I have to pay for 13 dinners for my wife and I.  That's $23 per meal.  In my experience our 'healthier' alternatives cost way, way, way less than that.  A bag of frozen chicken breasts, rice, and something green is awfully cheap.  We'd get whole chickens too and that'd last 3-4 dinners.

For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.

how in the world do you make chicken, rice and fresh veggies taste worse than fast food?


Maybe it's the result of being raised on fast food but I'd take McDonald's over Thanksgiving dinner.  I struggle to eat vegetables, even well prepared ones - but a Wendy's Triple burger is amazing.  I'd take a large pepperoni pizza over an expensive steak too.  I basically have the taste preferences of a fat six year old.
 
2013-12-08 12:51:49 PM  

vpb: Fark_Guy_Rob: For me, healthier was a lot cheaper.
But it tasted like crap and took more effort.

Except that SNAP doesn't buy McDonald's, and $1.50 per day is more than SNAP pays per meal.  You would have to give up one meal per day to come up with that $1.50 per day.


In fairness, I did qualify my anecdote by saying things like, 'in my experience' and 'for me'.  Subby brought in McDonald's.
 
2013-12-08 12:57:10 PM  
I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that
 
2013-12-08 01:03:37 PM  

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.


Quit buying the veggies and fruits at a whole foods type store.   Visit the farmers market.    Start spending 1 or 2 dollars for something rather than 5 or 6.   

We go to our preferred farmers market (there's about 3 or 4 in the area) and spend less than $25 bucks each week, most of the time under 20, and have fruits and veggies for every meal.   

/F*cking love zucchini now.
//broccoli too.
 
2013-12-08 01:06:48 PM  

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.


Well, see, it's simple.  If you love America, you have to first give no shiats about the people who are America.  Or something.
 
2013-12-08 01:32:50 PM  
I enjoy a little fast food/junk food now and then, but stopped going to those places nearby because of car lines.  People just sitting and waiting, rather than parking and walking inside.  McD's should offer a discount for doing just that.
 
2013-12-08 01:33:18 PM  
Now when I was a boy
My daddy sat me on his knee
And he told me
He told me many things
And he said son
There's alot of things in this world
You're gonna have no use for
And when you get blue
And you've lost all your dreams
There's nothin like a campfire
And a can of beans
 
2013-12-08 01:34:07 PM  

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


By and large, I don't think even the poor are that lacking in downtime. As for beans, it's not like you're having to stand there watching while they soak, and you can certainly make a larger amount ahead so that one prep interval serves for several meals. I think the convenience factor (a polite term for laziness) and taste are most of why people gravitate toward fast food.  What's not to like about quick carbs and fat?
 
2013-12-08 01:37:00 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.


Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program is not designed to pay for all of your food.
 
2013-12-08 01:39:48 PM  

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.


Dried beans take all night once a month, then after that you just pull the Tupperware out of the freezer and microwave them for a few minutes.
 
2013-12-08 01:44:29 PM  
Wow. Lots of anger in this thread at what is essentially good news. Getting the word out that eating healthy isn't only for the wealthy is a good thing. It's like a lot of people are actually angry that it is only $1.50 more a day to eat healthy. It isn't news to those of us who already grocery shop and cook at home. But it is good to educate people.

Make home ec a required course in high school again, remove all subsidies from meat and corn so the price will go up, and subsidize leafy and green vegetables so the price goes down. Once the cost of a healthy diet is less than the unhealthy diet, which will be soon after the subsidy changes, then tax fast food like tobacco is taxed and put the revenue towards health care spending.
 
2013-12-08 01:54:56 PM  

Endive Wombat: Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.


Very true, and more importantly, they don't keep.  For poor people who don't have easy access to transportation, actually getting to a grocery store can be a huge hassle, so they often tend to go once a month and do all of their SNAP/WIC shopping in one go.  I'm sure you've been to the grocery store on the first of the month at some point and seen that for yourself.  shiatty, processed food keeps indefinitely and that makes it a necessary evil for a lot of people.
 
2013-12-08 01:55:35 PM  

jake_lex: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.


In addition, cooking is a skill.  Some argue that it's easy, and it is to some, but not to everyone.  Some people are better kept from attempting to boil eggs, much less cook a decent meal.  Some people also have no idea how to cook.

That is how society has gotten where it has, cooks cook for everyone, sewer workers and plumbers do their part for everyone, technology developers do what they do for everyone.  We're a specialized society, gone is the necessity to learn a little bit about everything.  Yet, we're educated that way.  We try to teach all students everything and make little room for helping them find and develop the skills that they have a knack for, so that they can make a good wage doing that without overtaxing themselves.

Lady Indica: If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.


Also, some of that.  You are simply not going to eradicate people who take advantage of the system.  They are only part of the total package.  Anyone who doesn't succeed isn't automatically a lazy freeloader.

Our society has some great flaws, among them not taking care of the less fortunate.

Not that it matters, so many flaws in our society are self sustaining, self perpetuating cycles.  We're doomed without some radical change.
 
2013-12-08 02:00:21 PM  

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


Hey, it's not like they're people. If they were people, of course we should help them, but this is America, and in the greatest country that ever was or ever shall be, no one who is a person ever becomes poor.

So helping all the non-people is just a useless drain taking away from real people.
 
2013-12-08 02:01:32 PM  
FTA:
"For many low-income families, that means quite a lot," she said. "It translates to about $550 more per year for one person, and that could be a real barrier to healthy eating."

Emphasis was mine.  Personally, I'm trying to eat healthier again, but I do hate the prep time for some things.
 
2013-12-08 02:03:05 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: Getting the word out that eating healthy isn't only for the wealthy is a good thing. It's like a lot of people are actually angry that it is only $1.50 more a day to eat healthy.


No, it implies that it's a simple thing to remedy that makes people angry.  It's based in ignorance and/or stupidity, this naive over-simplification.

Adding $1.50 a day to wages will not necessarily improve one's health.  It is a much more complex issue and people write it off as if it's not.  That is what gets people's panties in a bind.  It's too much "let them eat cake".  If you can't see that, you're very likely part of the problem.
 
2013-12-08 02:12:22 PM  
Somebody has introduced a fact into a Fark debate.

Bastards!
 
2013-12-08 02:14:43 PM  

omeganuepsilon: If you can't see that, you're very likely part of the problem.


Nah.  It's the people who insist it's impossible to eat healthy unless you spends lots of money that are the problem.  That's patently obvious.

I could swear some people actually are unhappy that healthy food choices are not expensive.
 
2013-12-08 02:28:10 PM  

BullBearMS:

Between a pressure cooker and a crock pot, you can pretty easily manage to work for a living and still have time to cook healthy food.
Really, the problem in America is that fresh produce is entirely too expensive. If you have an asian marketplace nearby, be sure to check out their produce section. They are often much, much cheaper.


Pressure cookers are great, but the cheapest one I see listed in stock at Target is $40 (and that's one thing I wouldn't get from a thrift store), and you do need access to kitchen facilities, which you may not have in a rooming house, shelter, couch-surfing, etc. A crock pot is great, you can often find them second hand, and you may be able to use one even if you don't have a full kitchen.

Third Day Mark:

Quit buying the veggies and fruits at a whole foods type store.   Visit the farmers market.    Start spending 1 or 2 dollars for something rather than 5 or 6.

When I was really poor, the closest farmers' market was about 5 miles away, I didn't have a car, and transit cost $5.50 for a return trip. And it was open only on Thursdays from 4-7, when I was at work (there were other farmers' markets with other hours, but almost always at times I couldn't get there. McDonalds and convenience stores, on the other hand, are open late or 24 hours). And I only had enough room in a shared fridge for a few things, so a once-a-week shopping trip was impossible. It wouldn't have been a solution.

jjorsett: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

By and large, I don't think even the poor are that lacking in downtime. As for beans, it's not like you're having to stand there watching while they soak, and you can certainly make a larger amount ahead so that one prep interval serves for several meals. I think the convenience factor (a polite term for laziness) and taste are most of why people gravitate toward fast food.  What's not to like about quick carbs and fat?


Fine, if you have room to store food prepared in advance. And beans still need to be supplemented with vegetables, which can be expensive.

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


THIS.

I was really lucky - when I was struggling, I worked next to a yuppie grocery store that had a ton of healthy prepared food. Buying a good meal (chicken, steamed vegetables, some brown rice or quinoa) cost between $5-7 - more than McDonalds for sure, but I could manage it a lot of the time and I didn't have to worry about the time or cost of getting to where I could buy it, where or when I was going to be able to prepare it, where I was going to store it, etc. These were all major considerations since I didn't really have access to a kitchen or more than a tiny bit of space in a fridge. Lots of people are not so lucky. I'm not poor now because of luck and a LOT of privilege (a good education, a universal health care system that let me get treatment for my major depression, and middle-class friends and family who helped me out enough that I was never homeless, hired me for freelance work, and let me know about job openings, including the one I eventually got.)

Anyone who hasn't been poor (real long-term poor with no prospect of things getting better, not the poor you were when you ate Ramen in grad school) needs to be very careful about giving advice or talking about how easy healthy choices are.

/thanks for the TF, Bathia_Mapes!
 
2013-12-08 02:41:14 PM  

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


THIS
THIS
THIS!
 
2013-12-08 02:42:41 PM  

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


Get off your high horse.

Vast majority of the food kitchens and pantries in this country are supported, staffed, and ran by local churches.  And they are open to anyone in need.

I won't call your ilk immoral, but I will point out that the sex industry is pretty notorious for paying under the table - i.e.  your ilk is not paying the tax money that would go to support programs like this.

Personally, I am fine with that - I prefer to donate my time and money directly to things that help those in need instead of giving it to the government to F around with and maybe help someone.
 
2013-12-08 02:48:34 PM  

angrycrank: Pressure cookers are great, but the cheapest one I see listed in stock at Target is $40 (and that's one thing I wouldn't get from a thrift store)


Check out Amazon. They have a large election.

This isn't an area where you want to skimp on safety features though.
 
2013-12-08 02:49:29 PM  
When you haven't enough
Decisions get tough.


People are willing to judge or advise the poor in complete ignorance of their living conditions and the constraints on their actions to help themselves. A lot of people are moralizing bastards and they are not helping. Some of these are all the usual suspects--Scrouges, billionaires, conservatives, others are liberals and thus ostensibly trying to help. Ignorance doesn't help though. It doesn't help to do things for people in the belief that they are stupid and helpless, for example.

I have seen poverty around me and I have lived on low incomes for a considerable time before gettting a decent paying permanent job. I know something but perhaps not a lot about what it is like to be poor. My special circumstances have allowed me to see a whole range of social conditions. My rural family is close to all classes of people from the richest to the poorest. I mean we have neighbours, friends, family, and business partners, employees and associates from billionaires to white trash and even natives, from old political families to new arrivals.

Judge not, least ye be judged, for that measure you mete shall be meted out to you.

I found, while poor, that two of the best friends a person trying to eat on nothing a week was a five pound bag of potatoes (the quality is abominable from low end grocery stores) and a three pound bag of good eating apples (I like Royal Galas, McIntosh, or Spartans, among others).

When you are sick of eating apples, you can use a bit of cinnamon and sugar if you have it, and bake them.

Potatoes can be eaten with the skin if in good shape or peeled and roasted or boiled. You can make your own french fries with cooking oil. This can be done with less oil if you do it in the oven or a frying pan.

Lots of nutrition for $3 a bag or $2.50-$5.00 for the potatoes.

A bag of smallish apples will give you two a day for a cost of 25 cents each. A bag of potatoes will, even with a large loss due to damage and spoilag, meet a big chunk of your caloric requirements for a week.

For $1.50 a day you can easily add both to your diet and drop a lot of junk food snacks and some meals. Don't large size it.

The other good things to buy are the crap that poor old people live on: tea, bread, peanut butter, milk, cookies (especially the healthier kinds), jam (surprisingly nourishing, what with all that pectin--soluble fruit fibre), and a tin of tuna or salmon. Old Age Pensioners know how to live on nothing and feed a cat as well. Bless them and be as like them as you can.
 
2013-12-08 02:54:44 PM  
The thing is that it's impossible for anyone to ever again eat healthy. This is because the Secret Muslim 0bama has put everyone into rooming houses that don't have refrigerators, stoves, or even hot plates. No one has cars or can even walk, they have to take a communist bus that costs $6.66 to go anywhere and takes 4 hours just to get up the street one mile. He even stole the produce sections out of all the supermarkets and hidden them in Area 51 preventing the lucky few from even getting the green stuff. BEWARE! The Communist Muslim Anti-Veggie Squad is COMING FOR YOU!! And they will force feed you chicken nuggets, cola, and tater-tots until you look like Mr Creosote.
 
2013-12-08 02:58:09 PM  

jjorsett: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

By and large, I don't think even the poor are that lacking in downtime. As for beans, it's not like you're having to stand there watching while they soak, and you can certainly make a larger amount ahead so that one prep interval serves for several meals. I think the convenience factor (a polite term for laziness) and taste are most of why people gravitate toward fast food.  What's not to like about quick carbs and fat?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guess how I know you have never been, or even known someone, really poor.
I work 4 jobs and take classes. Frequently I have less than 30 minutes to make and eat dinner before I have to be gone again.

When you think about prep time, think about all the conveniences you use. (You are just lazy for having a refrigerator and not going and getting ice for a cooler. And a blender is just laziness - you could do that with a spoon and some elbow grease!). Poor people may not have access to those. When computing the costs, people forget to put a value on the time it takes - you could be out earning a wage instead of dinkin around in the kitchen. Take the amount of time it takes to make the food (start to finish - no assuming you start out with everything chopped, skinned or otherwise prepared like cook books do) and multiply that times your hourly wage. Add that in to the price of the supplies. NOW compare it to fast food costs.
 
2013-12-08 02:58:20 PM  
I have a book by an artist on how to feed yourself on $15 a week. Now, this is hard core stuff. Most of the poor can spend a lot more than a starving artist, and would disdain a diet based on rice, especially brown rice, which is much healthier and can be very tasty.

But if you are Chinese or willing to eat like a Chinese peasant, you can live on a diet based around boiling or steaming a big pot of rice at the beginning of the week. Breakfast, lunch and dinner. Monotonous, but that is a great way to avoid becoming fat while you are starivng.

Christopher Lea Dunning. The One Recipe Recipe Book, or The Artist's Friend.

What a posh name. Perhaps he was voluntary poor, namely refusing help from his well-off parents. I don't know.

It's a great book if you live in a town where you can find eggplant, taro, hairy melon, black moss and other relatively exotic Asian ingredients. Try to live in or near China Town, or within easy walkig distance of hipsters and bohemians. Good advice even if you are not poorest of the poor.

Eating like a millionaire is a lot cheaper and healthier than living like a trucker or a temp. Use the hipster's savoir faire and savoir vivre to steal ideas from Chinese, Indian, Eastern European or Latino peasants.

Ironically, many people in the Mediterranean countries can no longer afford a Mediterranean diet, but you are lucky if you can, so consider it.
 
2013-12-08 03:01:59 PM  
Holy shiat Fark, swat your goddamn shiat meals with seeds, fruits, vegetables; eat a bit of meat, avoid fat when you can.   WTF is wrong with fark today?

//farking millennials, get off my lawn
 
2013-12-08 03:47:34 PM  

NotARocketScientist: jjorsett: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

By and large, I don't think even the poor are that lacking in downtime. As for beans, it's not like you're having to stand there watching while they soak, and you can certainly make a larger amount ahead so that one prep interval serves for several meals. I think the convenience factor (a polite term for laziness) and taste are most of why people gravitate toward fast food.  What's not to like about quick carbs and fat?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Guess how I know you have never been, or even known someone, really poor.
I work 4 jobs and take classes. Frequently I have less than 30 minutes to make and eat dinner before I have to be gone again.

When you think about prep time, think about all the conveniences you use. (You are just lazy for having a refrigerator and not going and getting ice for a cooler. And a blender is just laziness - you could do that with a spoon and some elbow grease!). Poor people may not have access to those. When computing the costs, people forget to put a value on the time it takes - you could be out earning a wage instead of dinkin around in the kitchen. Take the amount of time it takes to make the food (start to finish - no assuming you start out with everything chopped, skinned or otherwise prepared like cook books do) and multiply that times your hourly wage. Add that in to the price of the supplies. NOW compare it to fast food costs.


Shouldn't you be getting ready for work or something? You have less than 30 minutes to make dinner. Why are you dicking around on fark?
 
2013-12-08 03:51:03 PM  

angrycrank: I worked next to a yuppie grocery store that had a ton of healthy prepared food. Buying a good meal (chicken, steamed vegetables, some brown rice or quinoa) cost between $5-7


Just to beat this pressure cooker drum to death....

Brown rice normally takes about an hour to make, but it's much healthier, as well as dirt cheap.

However, in a pressure cooker, you're looking at 20 minutes.

/I have more than one, so you can say I"m a big convert.
 
2013-12-08 03:52:07 PM  

RyansPrivates: You find that the reason people make "poor" choices is because they are actually the only rational choice.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS x infinity.

Holy shiat, I have this conversation with everyone.

Person: "Why don't you do X?"
Me: "Because Y."
Person: "So Z, A, B?"
Me: "Yeah, but CDE."

and so on. Eventually the person stops because it seems like I'm being defeatist. It's my reality, you r-tard. Yes, it's farking complicated. YOU try dealing with it as well as I have for as long as I have.

I think being extremely poor and being extremely rich are some of the biggest tests of character a person can ever go through. Either way, the temptation (and the justification!) to become a criminal is very. very. very. easy to give into.
 
2013-12-08 04:05:32 PM  
I try my best, but sometimes, strings of 14 hour days just take the wind out of my sails and I end up with some microwaveable crap that makes me not hungry before I pass out and go back to work again. Cost is some of the consideration, to be sure... but prep/cooking time is a factor when you work long days. =/
 
2013-12-08 04:19:25 PM  

I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.


What bullshiat. The S in SNAP stands for supplemental. As in it is to be used in addition to any funds otherwise, from governmental benefit or through work, used for food.
 
2013-12-08 05:26:58 PM  

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


This the the way I feel.  It is unfortunate that others that call themselves Christians don't get this.  Morality really has no dependence on religion.  The moral choice is to feed the hungry, clothe the cold, help the oppressed.  Sure Christ taught this, but it isn't just him.  There are some christian organizations that actually do this right (there are also plenty of secular or Jewish or Islamic orgs too.)

I donate my money to one such organization, not because it is Christian (even though I am) but because they provide food, shelter, legal aide, you name it because it is the right thing they do.  They are "foolish" with their money by some standards.  But ultimately, I don't care.  I want them to be foolish.  I don't want "ROI" in a strictly capitalistic sense.  I want  help to get to those who need it.
 
2013-12-08 05:48:05 PM  

jake_lex: doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.

This.  If I'm working 2 or 3 shiat jobs to try to keep the rent paid, I don't have a lot of time to prepare food that takes any significant amount of time.  So I'm probably either just gonna buy some pre-prepared thing at the store that I can just nuke for a few minutes, or I'm gonna swing through McDonald's.

Studies like this fail to recognize that the underlying problem here is poverty and the refusal of our country to do what we can to provide a living wage for those who work full time.  Until then, saying things like "It's not that much more expensive to buy healthy food!" misses the point.


More relevant than prep time is access.

For example, only high end supermarkets like Whole Foods have bulk grain sections, which can be big money savers. Good luck finding many of them in poor neighborhoods.

And then the quality of produce at lower end supermarkets can be pretty poor. It's not surprising that nobody is buying wilted vegetables and over ripe fruit.

There was a study a little while ago about how in the poorest neighborhoods places like Dollar General tend to be the only option
 
2013-12-08 05:50:56 PM  

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.


My friends who did a whole-30 paleo challenge, and shopped seasonal, frugal, manager special, etc....couldn't afford to keep doing it after the whole 30 challenge. Even shopping smart, and hitting in-season stuff, and manager specials, the 'no processed foods' thing is just expensive. Everything is processed.
 
2013-12-08 06:09:29 PM  
But that would require some effort from the 400 pound trailer trash mom, or the ghetto-licious city mom. Neither has worked a day in their adult life and neither generally tends to give much of a fark about their crotch droppings.  Good luck.
 
2013-12-08 06:19:32 PM  
only in crony capitalist america would you be penalized for eating real, whole foods and not shiat that poses as food.


only in america.
 
2013-12-08 06:20:52 PM  

doglover: New study is full of shiat.

It's called opportunity cost. Making food takes time. The cheaper the food, the longer the prep. Dried beans take all night.



put those buggers on a slow simmer (with a lid on)  and you'll be surprised how long it takes.
 
2013-12-08 06:22:34 PM  
Candybar Economics: over time, gradually reduce the size of the candybar while charging more for it. they'll never notice it.  clever.


its a win win in the 'greatest coontry on earth'.
 
2013-12-08 06:26:09 PM  

Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.



that will teach her for trying to be healthy and lessening the burden on our HealthDon't Care system. and also lessening the days out sick for work. and for being a happier person for herself and her family/kids.

its outrageous!
 
2013-12-08 06:27:43 PM  

Nemo's Brother: But that would require some effort from the 400 pound trailer trash mom, or the ghetto-licious city mom. Neither has worked a day in their adult life and neither generally tends to give much of a fark about their crotch droppings.  Good luck.



and your wall street banker buddies retire at age 35 to 40 with a bundle of your money.   that ain't bad, either.
 
2013-12-08 07:57:15 PM  

Chameleon: $1.50/person/day X family of 4 X 7 days=$42/week or $189/month.

There have been times in my life where coming up with an extra $189 per month would have been, literally, impossible without resorting to theft or prostitution.


I should give you my number -just in case.

Lady Indica: I don't give a shiat any more. I just don't. You can argue whatever you like, I'm simply sick and farking tired of any argument on why in one of the richest places on earth we have people going hungry, lacking medical care and basic shelter.

I don't give a fark if lazies take advantage, I don't give a fark if my hard earned bucks go to helping someone lazy and selfish and shiatty. If that's the price of everyone getting enough, I'm farking okay with it.

Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

And I'm the atheist. I'm the one some of you like to call whore (sex worker, please). If you think my ilk is immoral and I'm saying this...where the farkity fark do you get off? How does anyone who calls themselves a christian not on board with the same thing?

/this is why I'll never be rich
//and I'm FINE with that


I like you.
This world is not ready for someone as enlightened and evolved as you.
 
2013-12-08 08:12:20 PM  

Nemo's Brother: But that would require some effort from the 400 pound trailer trash mom, or the ghetto-licious city mom. Neither has worked a day in their adult life and neither generally tends to give much of a fark about their crotch droppings.  Good luck.


Exactly. We need to round those people up, and find some sort of solution to the problem, don't you agree? Make them work, for instance. Because arbeit macht frei work will make you free.
 
2013-12-08 08:14:56 PM  

kroonermanblack: Endive Wombat: Bullshiat.

My wife has taken to a new quasi-vegan, veggie, nut, and fruit diet (She will eat an egg or a piece of fish here and there if I prepare it).  Our grocery bill has doubled if not tripled in the past ~6 weeks shes been on said diet.  Fresh fruits and veggies are not only expensive but much more of a pain in the ass to prepare for 3 square meals a day.

Now her energy is up, she looks and feels better, and shes lost some weight, so that's all good and fine...add to that we can afford to absorb her more expensive diet, but I know many others cannot.

My friends who did a whole-30 paleo challenge, and shopped seasonal, frugal, manager special, etc....couldn't afford to keep doing it after the whole 30 challenge. Even shopping smart, and hitting in-season stuff, and manager specials, the 'no processed foods' thing is just expensive. Everything is processed.


If you eat beans and oatmeal and rice, it's cheap. Not much fun, mind you. And not super-healthy. But it is cheap and you won't starve.
 
2013-12-08 08:42:13 PM  
www.pcrm.org  hmmmm
 
2013-12-08 09:02:27 PM  
All those people going on about SNAP being supplemental? Know how I know you've never been poor enough to have to choose between paying the electricity bill and eating?
 
2013-12-08 09:24:48 PM  
The wife always gets a $50 wal mart gift card from her company for Xmas so we go to wal mart and buy groceries once a year. Today was that day and we noticed the lack of quality fruits and vegetables. We don't go to some fancy whole foods place either. we shop at Kroger and the difference in fresh vegetables between Even Kroger and Wal Mart is crazy. I can't imagine the difference between that and  a grocery store in some inner city ghetto. Healthy eating is about access and opportunity
 
2013-12-08 09:39:10 PM  
Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.

Laziness?
Buying fresh food  and cooking your own meals is significantly cheaper than buying mcdoubles. If I want a full meal at mcdonalds for me and my girlfriend I am looking at $15 or more. Ground sirloin is 4.49lb, bag of frozen fries is 3.49, soda is 99c for a 2liter, cheese is less than 25c per slice of real cheese, buns are 50c ea, condiments are too cheap per serving to matter.
So approx $9 to make enough food for 2 people, using high end ingredients (ground sirloin, good quality cheese), with 1/2 bag of fries and half a 2liter left over. Or $15 at mcdonalds for less food, that tastes worse, has no nutritional value and is made out of the very lowest ingredients allowed by law.

I made this meal 2 nights ago for my girlfriend and I. It cost me under $10 and was delicious. The excuses for eating at fast food instead of cooking for yourself all boil down to the same thing - laziness.
 
2013-12-08 09:45:24 PM  

420Gabriel: Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.

Laziness?
Buying fresh food  and cooking your own meals is significantly cheaper than buying mcdoubles. If I want a full meal at mcdonalds for me and my girlfriend I am looking at $15 or more. Ground sirloin is 4.49lb, bag of frozen fries is 3.49, soda is 99c for a 2liter, cheese is less than 25c per slice of real cheese, buns are 50c ea, condiments are too cheap per serving to matter.
So approx $9 to make enough food for 2 people, using high end ingredients (ground sirloin, good quality cheese), with 1/2 bag of fries and half a 2liter left over. Or $15 at mcdonalds for less food, that tastes worse, has no nutritional value and is made out of the very lowest ingredients allowed by law.

I made this meal 2 nights ago for my girlfriend and I. It cost me under $10 and was delicious. The excuses for eating at fast food instead of cooking for yourself all boil down to the same thing - laziness.


Good thing you didnt have pick up your kids from the sitters in between your two jobs.  You know, lazyness.
 
2013-12-08 10:01:19 PM  

Frederick: theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.


Apparently, you don't know that food stamps/SNAP debit cards can't be used for prepared foods?
 
2013-12-08 10:16:19 PM  

acohn: Frederick: theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.

Apparently, you don't know that food stamps/SNAP debit cards can't be used for prepared foods?


Apparently you've never worked at McDonalds.  Most stores give their employees food credits during their shift, designed for lunch breaks.  But when I worked there that policy was flexible and employees often fed their kids with those credits.  YMMV

People who work at restaurants often eat from work for cheap out of necessity.
 
2013-12-08 10:18:30 PM  

acohn: Frederick: theyre making choices on what dollar menu items to bring home from working at McDonalds with their food credits.

Apparently, you don't know that food stamps/SNAP debit cards can't be used for prepared foods?


You can buy the left over cold fried chicken from the grocery, but don't even try to enjoy some hot and fresh fried chicken on Joe Taxpayer's dime, you leech!
 
2013-12-08 10:38:11 PM  

420Gabriel: Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.

Laziness?
Buying fresh food  and cooking your own meals is significantly cheaper than buying mcdoubles. If I want a full meal at mcdonalds for me and my girlfriend I am looking at $15 or more. Ground sirloin is 4.49lb, bag of frozen fries is 3.49, soda is 99c for a 2liter, cheese is less than 25c per slice of real cheese, buns are 50c ea, condiments are too cheap per serving to matter.
So approx $9 to make enough food for 2 people, using high end ingredients (ground sirloin, good quality cheese), with 1/2 bag of fries and half a 2liter left over. Or $15 at mcdonalds for less food, that tastes worse, has no nutritional value and is made out of the very lowest ingredients allowed by law.

I made this meal 2 nights ago for my girlfriend and I. It cost me under $10 and was delicious. The excuses for eating at fast food instead of cooking for yourself all boil down to the same thing - laziness.


I am with you a little bit, but you spent $10 for two people for dinner...multiply by 30 days, and you are now spending $300 a month for JUST dinner.  I will bet you don't spend $5 per person per dinner for the month.  Most people are looking at a calorie per dollar cost analysis, so if you are spending $15 at McD's, you are not spending from the value menu, which most poor people do.  The cost per McDouble is a good metric for comparison.

/food is way too expensive now-a-days
 
2013-12-08 11:26:12 PM  
Third Day Mark:
Quit buying the veggies and fruits at a whole foods type store.   Visit the farmers market.    Start spending 1 or 2 dollars for something rather than 5 or 6.   

We go to our preferred farmers market (there's about 3 or 4 in the area) and spend less than $25 bucks each week, most of the time under 20, and have fruits and veggies for every meal.   

/F*cking love zucchini now.
//broccoli too.


Around the Bay Area, farmers' markets sell produce (mostly organic) for double what you pay at Safeway (and that's saying a lot).  Only rich folks can afford them.
 
2013-12-09 12:14:47 AM  

acohn: Third Day Mark:
Quit buying the veggies and fruits at a whole foods type store.   Visit the farmers market.    Start spending 1 or 2 dollars for something rather than 5 or 6.
We go to our preferred farmers market (there's about 3 or 4 in the area) and spend less than $25 bucks each week, most of the time under 20, and have fruits and veggies for every meal.
/F*cking love zucchini now.
//broccoli too.

Around the Bay Area, farmers' markets sell produce (mostly organic) for double what you pay at Safeway (and that's saying a lot).  Only rich folks can afford them.


I think it's cheaper if you go to the FMs in like Gilroy, but that's just not practical for most people. I got rid of my car up here, so transportation costs/time factor into everything. I'm in a good 'hood so I can walk to Whole Foods, take a local bus to Safeway (or have them deliver).

The thing most of you do not realize, is that in poor black neighborhoods (predominately in black areas, but really most 'ghetto' areas) there may not even BE a grocery store.
 
2013-12-09 12:20:43 AM  

BullBearMS: Brown rice normally takes about an hour to make, but it's much healthier, as well as dirt cheap.


Let's lay this shibboleth to rest.  Brown rice is not healthier than white rice.  In fact, it's less healthy.  The bran coat contains anti-nutrients:  Phytate and haemagglutinin-lectin.  Phytate binds to most of the minerals in the bran, making then unavailable to humans, because we don't produce the enzyme phytase.  In addition, phytate binds certain minerals it comes in contact with, like magnesium and zinc. Haemagglutinin-lectin can bind to specific carbohydrate receptor sites in the intestinal lining and impede nutritional absorption.

Before anyone says, "just soak the rice," that doesn't de-activate phytate.  You have to soak *and* ferment the rice.  If you're hard-pressed for time, that's not a viable option.

White rice, OTOH, is just starch, unless it's grown in the U.S., in which case you get a generous helping of arsenic, according to Consumer Reports' testing.  Of course, it's always a crap shoot with any food from  China, so caveat emptor.
 
2013-12-09 05:32:28 AM  
 
2013-12-09 08:29:12 AM  
Fun fact: Rice is the only food that doesn't produce flatulence.
 
2013-12-09 10:14:13 AM  

Lady Indica: Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.


But there are millions of cold people out there and one of them might be faking it so we shouldn't help any of them.

/that's what the Republican response sounds like
 
2013-12-09 10:51:12 AM  

Frederick: 420Gabriel: Came here to post something similar.  I price everything in McDoubles, an excellent standard for caloric intake if any.  Bag of celery?  Two McDoubles.  Bag of oranges on say?  About three McDoubles.  I understand completely why those on a limited income and limited access to fresh food eat where they do.

Laziness?
Buying fresh food  and cooking your own meals is significantly cheaper than buying mcdoubles. If I want a full meal at mcdonalds for me and my girlfriend I am looking at $15 or more. Ground sirloin is 4.49lb, bag of frozen fries is 3.49, soda is 99c for a 2liter, cheese is less than 25c per slice of real cheese, buns are 50c ea, condiments are too cheap per serving to matter.
So approx $9 to make enough food for 2 people, using high end ingredients (ground sirloin, good quality cheese), with 1/2 bag of fries and half a 2liter left over. Or $15 at mcdonalds for less food, that tastes worse, has no nutritional value and is made out of the very lowest ingredients allowed by law.

I made this meal 2 nights ago for my girlfriend and I. It cost me under $10 and was delicious. The excuses for eating at fast food instead of cooking for yourself all boil down to the same thing - laziness.

Good thing you didnt have pick up your kids from the sitters in between your two jobs.  You know, lazyness.


Probably shouldn't have had those two kids then.

At a certain point, I am not sympathetic towards peoples' decisions.

/haven't had my coffee. But I think, as with all things, education combined with public assistance is necessary. I have seen enough people on food stamps buying soda and needlessly expensive meats to know that there is often a large divide between what is possible and what the reality is.

There are also two conversations to be had. There is the case you all seem to be talking about, where a person is so far below the poverty line that the opportunity cost is significant. And then you have the lazy/uneducated crowd at an income higher than that, at which level they have the free time and sufficient money available but lack the skills/understanding of personal finance and culinary arts to use it.
 
2013-12-09 11:04:58 AM  

lennavan: Lady Indica: Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

But there are millions of cold people out there and one of them might be faking it so we shouldn't help any of them.

/that's what the Republican response sounds like


Which is fine to point out, but the recent cuts and near future cuts to the program can't happen without both parties signing off on them.

Just like the Republicans can't abolish Obamacare with just the House no matter how many votes they take on the matter.

On the same day that President Obama eloquently described his vision of an economy defined by economic mobility and opportunity for all, Senate Agriculture Committee Chairwoman Debbie Stabenow was busy cutting a deal with House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas to slice another $8 to $9 billion from food stamps (SNAP), according to a source close to the negotiations.
 
2013-12-09 11:12:54 AM  

Debeo Summa Credo: I_Am_Weasel: Only $1.50, that's all?  Everything is good then.


The average monthly SNAP benefit per person is $133.85, or less than $1.50 per person, per meal.

http://feedingamerica.org/how-we-fight-hunger/programs-and-services/ pu blic-assistance-programs/supplemental-nutrition-assistance-program/sna p-myths-realities.aspx#

Oh.

What bullshiat. The S in SNAP stands for supplemental. As in it is to be used in addition to any funds otherwise, from governmental benefit or through work, used for food.


So... your solution is for them to stop being so poor.

Thanks, Governor Romney, didn't realize you were on Fark.
 
2013-12-09 11:15:19 AM  

BullBearMS: lennavan: Lady Indica: Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

But there are millions of cold people out there and one of them might be faking it so we shouldn't help any of them.

/that's what the Republican response sounds like

Which is fine to point out, but the recent cuts and near future cuts to the program can't happen without both parties signing off on them.

Just like the Republicans can't abolish Obamacare with just the House no matter how many votes they take on the matter.

On the same day that President Obama eloquently described his vision of an economy defined by economic mobility and opportunity for all, Senate Agriculture Committee Chairwoman Debbie Stabenow was busy cutting a deal with House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas to slice another $8 to $9 billion from food stamps (SNAP), according to a source close to the negotiations.


BSAB,SVR.

Dems shouldn't have thrown the poor and hungry under the bus to "compromise" with the GOP. Then again, I'm not a Dem, I'm a liberal.
 
2013-12-09 11:27:58 AM  

BullBearMS: lennavan: Lady Indica: Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

But there are millions of cold people out there and one of them might be faking it so we shouldn't help any of them.

/that's what the Republican response sounds like

Which is fine to point out, but the recent cuts and near future cuts to the program can't happen without both parties signing off on them.

Just like the Republicans can't abolish Obamacare with just the House no matter how many votes they take on the matter.

On the same day that President Obama eloquently described his vision of an economy defined by economic mobility and opportunity for all, Senate Agriculture Committee Chairwoman Debbie Stabenow was busy cutting a deal with House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas to slice another $8 to $9 billion from food stamps (SNAP), according to a source close to the negotiations.


Oh I agree.  It seems to me we have a far right party and a centrist party in power.  There is essentially no left.
 
2013-12-09 11:59:54 AM  

lennavan: BullBearMS: lennavan: Lady Indica: Anything else is just farking evil. I can't sit by in my warm coat and watch someone else shivering and listen to arguments about why they deserve to be cold. fark that. First let's get them warm, then let's figure out why they're cold and how to keep it fixed. If we have to help some broken people too...good.

But there are millions of cold people out there and one of them might be faking it so we shouldn't help any of them.

/that's what the Republican response sounds like

Which is fine to point out, but the recent cuts and near future cuts to the program can't happen without both parties signing off on them.

Just like the Republicans can't abolish Obamacare with just the House no matter how many votes they take on the matter.

On the same day that President Obama eloquently described his vision of an economy defined by economic mobility and opportunity for all, Senate Agriculture Committee Chairwoman Debbie Stabenow was busy cutting a deal with House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas to slice another $8 to $9 billion from food stamps (SNAP), according to a source close to the negotiations.

Oh I agree.  It seems to me we have a far right party and a centrist party in power.  There is essentially no left.


I wouldn't even call the Democrats centrists any more. They just worked with Republicans to save the Bush tax cuts for the rich when they automatically expired (finally) at the end of last year. (OMG! If we let them expire it's the FISCAL CLIFF!!!1!!)

They made them a permanent part of the tax code instead. Now they are turning around weeks later and cutting entitlements left and right?

That isn't centrist. That's plutocratic.
 
2013-12-09 12:39:18 PM  
There are 3 huge issues in eating healthy while broke that nobody takes into account:

1) Time - enough said

2) The ability to buy in bulk - both enough living space to store food AND enough breathing room per paycheck so you can cash in on sales.

3) Taste/Pleasure - sure I could eat beans and brown rice for the rest of my life, or I could have a cheeseburger off the dollar menu. Moreover, since you're life is crappy 24/7, junk food is the only self-medication you can afford.
 
2013-12-09 02:35:22 PM  

shortymac: 3) Taste/Pleasure - sure I could eat beans and brown rice for the rest of my life, or I could have a cheeseburger off the dollar menu. Moreover, since you're life is crappy 24/7, junk food is the only self-medication you can afford.


There's also a willpower component to it. The more you have to use your willpower, the less likely you are to be able to deny yourself when the right temptation comes up. This is the explanation for the plasma TV thing.

/"I ought to be able to have  some enjoyment to my life, since I didn't buy this, that, and the other thing I wanted."
 
2013-12-09 07:32:22 PM  

shortymac: Moreover, since you're life is crappy 24/7, junk food is the only self-medication you can afford.


Everything else you said was smart too, but this doesn't come around enough.

People have to stay sane. When it gets down and you're desperate for any bright point in your day/week/month, junk food can and does save lives.

With all the costs discussed in this thread($, time, effort, knowledge), on top of a generally crappy life, that's all some people can do, treat themselves on teh cheap.

I can't blame anyone who eats unhealthy for lack of time, money, location, education, ability.

The only one's that annoy me are the rich fat bastards.  Sure, there's a balance, if they're a workaholic and don't "have" the time, they fall under the same umbrella that poor people that HAVE to work.  Granted, all the stress of that is voluntary for them, but at that point it's a life choice.  Career or health.  In today's society, career is pretty damned important.

Of course, "healthy" is somewhat objective.  Do I have to weigh less than 200 pounds at 6'2"?  220?  250?

I don't ever get really sick, but I can't run a marathon.  I have a full time job(that turns into more, because laundry, traveling, getting ready for work, getting enough sleep[usually] etc).  I pay my taxes and health insurance.

So what if I'm not eating "healthy"?

So I die younger, maybe.  Tons of "healthy"(skinny) people die "younger" as well.  They get cancer or hit by a bus, or have a heart attack while doing their morning 5k or die in a burning wrecked Porche.

I think we place too much importance on health, and no where near enough on intelligence, education, and contribution to society and a few other categories(long monday at work and I'm running out of steam, I had more...honest).

"Healthy" people see themselves as superior, because they can't in any of those other categories.

/HA!
 
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