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(NPR)   Number of secular parents sending their children to religious school triples in the last few years   (m.npr.org) divider line 51
    More: Ironic, Jewish day school, Judeo-Christian tradition, Pew Research Center  
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5856 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2013 at 12:26 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-08 12:35:19 AM
6 votes:
A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.
2013-12-08 01:07:40 AM
3 votes:
My parents sent me to a parochial elementary school because the local public school was an underfunded, worn out piece of shiat. When I made it to high school, I found I was seriously deficient in sciences and math, but miles ahead in history and english. Based on the kids I met who did attend, I'm pretty sure if I'd gone to the public school, I wouldn't have be ahead in anything.

Also, nine years of nuns made me more convinced atheism is the correct answer than anything else ever would.
2013-12-08 12:55:46 AM
3 votes:
Some Coke Drinking Guy:
Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Near where I grew up "private, christian school" was code for "I don't want my kids going to school with non-whites".
2013-12-08 01:21:46 AM
2 votes:

ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.



Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.
2013-12-08 12:53:06 AM
2 votes:
www.funnyhype.com
2013-12-08 12:36:31 AM
2 votes:
I did the private school thing and got a very solid foundation in math. Even the evolution hot issue was resolved with "God did it, and this is just discovering how cool it is in detail".

Grew up fundie, but excessive reading of the Bible and a good dose of inquisitiveness (from a solid foundation in math and science) led me to reject the Christian faith. Irony is cruel bastard, I guess.
2013-12-07 11:56:39 PM
2 votes:

NFA: Religious schools are becoming dumping grounds for troubled youth who have been kicked out of public schools which have zero tolerance policies.


Private schools are allowed to expel students permanently, public schools are not.  Someone was paying for your bullies to be there.
2013-12-07 10:23:30 PM
2 votes:

NFA: Some Coke Drinking Guy: There are a lot of reasons you may want to send your kid to a private school, and if many communities, your choices of private schools may be limited.  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?  I can't bring him back to life if he gets killed in a race riot.

The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.   Religious schools are becoming dumping grounds for troubled youth who have been kicked out of public schools which have zero tolerance policies.

When I was a kid I attended St. Paul's private school, it was common for me and my classmates to be mugged by other older students in the restroom.  They would steal the money you brought to school for the collection plate.  The muggers were the public school rejects.


Not everywhere. In New Orleans, the best schools are private religious schools and they will boot troublemakers out in an instant.
2013-12-07 10:11:39 PM
2 votes:

Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.


Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.
2013-12-08 12:21:41 PM
1 votes:

Duke_leto_Atredes: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.

Public schools in low income areas are day care centers for the great unwashed I and my wife as well as the grand parents help out in the school. In the class with the homework after school in sports by not reliving any fails jock dreams through my kids. And finally two words " learn English" not Spanglish or Ebonics


You're telling them to learn English with the single most garbled sentence I've ever seen.
2013-12-08 08:59:20 AM
1 votes:

dg41: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.

This x1000

This statement seems to underscore the need for well funded, excellent public schools since children don't get to choose their parents.  This includes many currently "fiscally unpopular" programs like nutritious school lunches, Head Start, healthcare for children, Social Security (provides for orphans), etc.

I sincerely wish we could agree to allow adults to have necessary publicly funded programs (Socialisms!) so they can at least enjoy basic necessities for living in this civilization, including education. But I think it's horrific to deny those benefits to children, who have no rights of their own.Kids can't choose, can't consent and can only enjoy the opportunities afforded them by adults in our society.

The private option will select students who have money and can achieve in order to maintain the private school's profitability, which as you wrote implies present, competent parents who have the wherewithal to provide for their kids education.

Of course we could just also get rid of ALL schools completely and follow the Khan Academy model. I think this is the shape of things to come. But again, that would require present and engaged parents. Also the teachers that were participating would have to be very skilled.
2013-12-08 08:14:31 AM
1 votes:

HammerHeadSnark: rkiller1: THIS.  At my son's private, secular school, if you behave perfectly but have a C-average, they will ask you to leave.

That's about as nonsensical as anything I've ever heard. A "C average student" is an average student. Average. A mostly equal number of students are above and below the C students. If you remove all the current average and below students then the next year those students who were As and Bs now will divide into five groups ranging from A to E . . . and another sub-group of Cs come into being . . . and they get tossed out. Soon, there can be only one student.


Only if you grade on a curve.  Which is stupid as hell.  Use a fixed scale, cutting the "C" average students and the quality of your students will drastically improve and your student body will be smarter than the other schools.

My daughter went to christian schools from 2nd to 9th grade and catholic school until graduation.  The number one thing the headmasters said from the get go was your kid mis-behaves, causes problems and she's out.
2013-12-08 07:51:34 AM
1 votes:

alice_600: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I did the private school thing and got a very solid foundation in math. Even the evolution hot issue was resolved with "God did it, and this is just discovering how cool it is in detail".

Grew up fundie, but excessive reading of the Bible and a good dose of inquisitiveness (from a solid foundation in math and science) led me to reject the Christian faith. Irony is cruel bastard, I guess.

I'm surprised they mentioned the creationism/ID debate at all. Evolution was a bigger controversy at my public high school than it was the local private Christian academy.

Maybe Christians aren't all hot under the collar about being anti-science? Just the loud mouth ones are.


And finally someone understands.

By the way, most of us roll our eyes at the loud mouth ones because science is pretty clear that it's literally impossible for the earth to be a mere 6000 years old because, like Galileo, we refuse to believe that a God that gave us brains and the capacity to use intellect, logic and reason intends us to forgo their use.
2013-12-08 07:30:10 AM
1 votes:

Occam's Disposable Razor: FizixJunkee: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.

It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.


I say heavily project your beliefs on your child from a young age so they have zero ability to go their own path and figure anything out on your own, since it seems you won't be satisfied with how smart he is unless he thinks like you do.
2013-12-08 07:28:52 AM
1 votes:
Churches are highly segregated.
2013-12-08 05:56:10 AM
1 votes:
Eh, it's not really religious schools being preferred so much as parents willing to experiment with private schools in general and charters (essentially budget private schools at the primary/secondary level) becoming more commonplace as a result.

Religious private schools have basically the same quality-spread as private schools in general, which is basically a normal distribution of quality.  The distinction from public schools isn't really the  average, it's the  spread, which is much, much wider, there are not public schools even close to as good as the best privates or even remotely as bad as the worst privates, but for most privates public/private's pretty interchangeable.

He's the rough distribution on quality:

+2 sd (about 2%): State-funded early-admit college prep schools where you essentially get early access to college courses that also fill your high-school curriculum requirements.  Always consistently high-quality, but naturally very limited in supply of spots, making them competitive and very difficult to stay in once you're in due to high pressure and academic expectations.  Also only really exist for high school.

+1 sd (about 14%): Mag-net schools founded specifically to provide a higher-quality education that actually succeed at it, at least within their specialty.  Generally these are either absurdly expensive, or of very limited duration because they essentially rely on young, skilled teachers being willing to work for peanuts (something that only lasts about two years before they move on to somewhere with a better offered wage or long-term benefits, which even the public system provides).  This can make moving your kid there based on reputation kinda dicey.  Some (but not all) jesuit programs tend to fall in this bracket but a bit more reliably.

+0 sd: The middle of the distribution (68%ish): Specialty schools that tweak the environment in some way but don't really impact academics one way or the other.  The most common, especially among the religious schools, is the sex-segregated school.  Another common variation is the coed school where basically the only difference is silly uniforms (the vanilla "Catholic school") and that most of your classmates hail jesus slightly more often than satan.  The only really dangerous and socially damaging habit people pick up in these tends to be the mistaken impression that Christian Rock is actually good.  If you're actually paying money for these schools, the life lesson is that a lot of environmental factors you delude yourself into thinking influential as a parent actually mean fark-all to child development.

-1 sd (about 14%): Ideology-centric schools that actually try to mess with the curriculum to try to fit a world-view or mold the students into some specific profession.  This is basically pulling the low-card if you select a generic "religious" school, there will be some relatively stupid shiat your kid will be taught (creationism, the south should have won the civil war, etc), but nothing is  neglected per se.  Send your kid to college and most of it will get stamped out by annoyed and unsympathetic (but competent) instructors, if your kid doesn't go to college everyone they meet is going to make jokes like 'I hear banjos, paddle faster' whenever they enter the room.

-2 sd (about 2%): Oh, shiat, you pulled the charter school equivalent of Bob Jones University!  This tier is literally just a scam to take your money, the teachers haven't even passed high school themselves and the curriculum is essentially 100 monkeys locked in a room with 100 typewriters for a month, but the con man running the operation is just slick enough to trick the state into thinking the job's being done at minimum competence level because your state essentially explicitly bans actually checking up on charters in any meaningful way.  Look for the administrators to somehow pass the buck and skip town with a suspiciously large bonus about a semester before the school finally just straight-up folds.  A lot more protestant schools than Catholic in this category, because shiate quality control is still  some quality control, and religions like Southern Baptism and Mormonism were literally founded for the benefit of con men.
2013-12-08 05:40:03 AM
1 votes:
In Western Canada, it's pretty normal to attend catholic school OR public school for young kids. If you have no set religion or are nominally catholic or orthodox, a parent satisfies the paper work to simply attend the school nearest to their house. After elementary, they go back to public school until graduation OR continue because catholic schools in the area have better French immersion programs.

French immersion is where the kid speaks French for all math, science and social studies classes (by high school), as well as a French & English class. Options are all in English in Alberta at least.

The important point to take away from this is that it almost never has to do with religion directly, but with knowing French.

Knowing French is one of the key skills a Canadian must have in order to go into government, some areas of law, education and is generally good for university.

/doesn't know much French
//is still a cook instead of an archaeologist
///strongly agnostic & raised SDA
2013-12-08 04:20:31 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.


This.

Public schools aren't bad. Anywhere with books and a seat can open the world to you.

The problem, yet again, is class warfare. No one wants to help/see the poor.
2013-12-08 03:44:46 AM
1 votes:

trappedspirit: A big part of what your kids get out of any education is what you as their parent help them relate it to back in real (home) life.  If you aren't capable of being involved in their education and leave it up to the schools then fuk it.  You are just breeding another of your miserable kind and can't expect improvements.  Public schools help dipshiats raise dipshiats but they also help give smart families a good base to inspire their children to reach further.  Public schools are always filled with the melted snowflakes.  But when a parent helps at home and works with the school you get great results.  Of course, any time a parent is actively involved, it's hard not to get good results.  Dipshiat parents are rarely involved.  It mostly works out with everyone.  Unless you are in a high crime district.


This.

And I will add even if you are in a high crime district, an involved parent will also lead to a successful student. And the reason why private school kids parents are more involved is simple. if you are writing a check every month, you are going to want to see some results from that check, therefore you are going to be on your child to give you those results. But realistically we are all writing a check every month through our taxes for education, but with most people until it is taking money from their take home pay, it isn't real to them which is what makes private school parents get involved and what makes them successful, which is sad.
2013-12-08 03:27:41 AM
1 votes:
A big part of what your kids get out of any education is what you as their parent help them relate it to back in real (home) life.  If you aren't capable of being involved in their education and leave it up to the schools then fuk it.  You are just breeding another of your miserable kind and can't expect improvements.  Public schools help dipshiats raise dipshiats but they also help give smart families a good base to inspire their children to reach further.  Public schools are always filled with the melted snowflakes.  But when a parent helps at home and works with the school you get great results.  Of course, any time a parent is actively involved, it's hard not to get good results.  Dipshiat parents are rarely involved.  It mostly works out with everyone.  Unless you are in a high crime district.
2013-12-08 02:44:39 AM
1 votes:

Divinegrace: Danger Avoid Death: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

In other words, after the Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy jig is up, you're screwed.

Now you know the reason I never lied to my son about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or any of the other 'socially acceptable' lies parents tell their children.

I was told by my sons mother I was 'cruel bastard', I told here that parents that knowingly lie to their children are the cruel bastards.

To be fair, I am a bastard in every sense of the word, including the literal one...but cruel to my son I am not.


All people lie. If you claim you are different you are a liar.

Kids are not equipped to hear the truth about a great many things. I dont think you are cruel, you are just lying on the internet.
2013-12-08 02:42:22 AM
1 votes:

Danger Avoid Death: feckingmorons: Danger Avoid Death: deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!

Isn't that the day when all the Catholics come back to work from lunch looking like someone put a cigarette out on their forehead?

Not just Catholics.

Lemme guess ... Ashkenazi?


There is a guy who comes to work with the ashes on his forehead every year. Isn't that the opposite of the whole 'pray quietly' thing?
2013-12-08 02:33:00 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.


In early education it is more about what the parents make of contribute to it.
2013-12-08 02:28:00 AM
1 votes:

Divinegrace: a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???


No, as someone who went to religious schools, the answer is:

d) Private religious schools can be very picky and choosy about which kids they admit and allow to remain in school.

When you only admit the top 1/3rd of your applicants and then expel anyone who has behavioral or academic problems, of course the people you're left with by the end are significantly above the overall population average.

The biggest factor to my school's academic success was picking students who would have been successful anyway.  For those students, it offered a good academic environment, but the same model certainly would have failed if they'd been forced to take the students they don't want to try to teach.
2013-12-08 02:12:19 AM
1 votes:

Bucky Katt: Too bad.  There's not much actual evidence that private schools are in fact better than public ones.


You really believe that I"m sure. That is just amazing.
2013-12-08 02:11:27 AM
1 votes:

Fallout Boy: Ctrl +F for triple. Word not found. Nice one, submitter.


You searched for the wrong word.

we trebled the number of Jewish day schools in the 22 years that I was chief rabbi
2013-12-08 01:58:59 AM
1 votes:

fred_chan: FTFA: A recent study by the Pew Research Center ...

As a Jew, I am so farking tired of hearing about this goddamn study.


No shiat!

I do occasional freelance work at a major Jewish organization running video conferences for them. Had a bunch of work in the month after the study came out. Holy crap are they running scared! Or not, since this means all their bullshiat educational programs are even more relevant and all sorts of money will get pumped their way ensuring salaries and jobs don't go anywhere. And they get to brainstorm all sorts of new "initiatives" to save the Jews. Bleh... I'm glad I'm not working there full time anymore.

Anyways, a buddy of mine made fun of all the fear mongering and pearl clutching. I helped him with a few of the jokes.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-us-jewry-going-to-hell-in-a- ha ndbasket/
(Warning: May not be funny if you aren't Jewish)
2013-12-08 01:48:33 AM
1 votes:

BojanglesPaladin: Not all religious schools are the same, not even remotely. I knew kids who went to non-denominational 'Christian academies' who could barely write a complete sentence when they hit the public schools in junior high.


Jesus wept.
2013-12-08 01:35:33 AM
1 votes:

12349876: gfid: Public schools have to accept everyone, even the dumb and the delinquent. I only recall one student being expelled and that was because he was busted for pot. Yeah, if public schools expelled everyone who got busted with pot, there'd hardly be any students left - and they'd also end up kicking out some good students along with the bad.

The bigger drag on the stats for public schools are the special needs kids, not just the dumb and unruly.  And my school district had a special "academy" for the kids too unruly for regular schools.  Though I guess a number of schools districts are too small to be able to do that.


My school district had that also. The high school had a special program for them. We called them the 4th Floor because they were kept on the 4th floor of the school.
2013-12-08 01:22:41 AM
1 votes:

meat0918: Any decent private school has standards - and a waiting list - and can pick the best of their applicants.

Which is part of the reason it is ridiculous to compare private and public school achievement.


That's a fair point.

Public schools have to accept everyone, even the dumb and the delinquent.  I only recall one student being expelled and that was because he was busted for pot.  Yeah, if public schools expelled everyone who got busted with pot, there'd hardly be any students left - and they'd also end up kicking out some good students along with the bad.

Most of the "problem kids" were allowed to finish out the school year and just told they couldn't come back the next.  Like rkiller said upthread, poor academic performers just weren't allowed to re-enroll.
2013-12-08 01:15:05 AM
1 votes:

LemSkroob: ongbok: He says that it doesn't matter about the prosperity of the people in the district, public schools are shiat to teach at because the kids know they can get away with almost anything and not get kicked out, and there isn't much accountability from the parents because of the same. He said private schools a kid steps out of line once, both them and their parents get their only warning and the next time they are out.

I have a friend who teaches at a private school that is in a neighborhood that is undergoing a demographic shift, and therefore enrollment is down.

There are several kids in her class alone that should be juvie hall, but they wont be kicked out because their tuition checks keep the doors open.


Well there are some that are better than others and I'm sure that issue does come up in some. Also there are some that are places where the troubled kids land, In the town that I grew up in there were 3 Catholic k-8 schools. One of them was known as the school that the troubled kids who's parents were trying to straighten them out landed. And in the area that I grew up in there were dozens of Catholic high schools, and a few of them were known as the places were the bad kids went when there parents were trying to straighten them out.
2013-12-08 01:09:17 AM
1 votes:
I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.
2013-12-08 01:07:59 AM
1 votes:

fred_chan: FTFA: A recent study by the Pew Research Center ...

As a Jew, I am so farking tired of hearing about this goddamn study.


www.threadbombing.com
2013-12-08 01:04:57 AM
1 votes:
FTFA: A recent study by the Pew Research Center ...

As a Jew, I am so farking tired of hearing about this goddamn study.
2013-12-08 01:04:26 AM
1 votes:

Some Coke Drinking Guy: There are a lot of reasons you may want to send your kid to a private school, and if many communities, your choices of private schools may be limited.  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?  I can't bring him back to life if he gets killed in a race riot.

Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.


I dunno. I'm barely outta Chicago, and I heard the magnet school-versus-public school argument far too many times. It still in the end adds up to cold hard dollars and social status. Private school? Be prepared for some hardcore cash. Magnet schools seem good until you read up on how Draconian (and under-the-sleeve racist) they actually are, and public schools, at least where I lived, were more or less a bullet storm with substandard schooling. Home schooling? Seen it, and they are, I'm guessing from lack of social interaction, farked up.

Now.............. to religious schools........ (1). Catholic school kids live up to that myth. (2). Middle East, anyone? We've seen how mandating religion in schools worked on that one.

Fark it, school ain't teaching you everything folks.
2013-12-08 01:00:33 AM
1 votes:

gfid: NFA: The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.

I don't know if that's true or not, but the private secular school I attended wouldn't touch a kid who had been expelled from public school with a 10 and a half foot pole even if the kid's parents could afford it.

Private schools, religious or not, are usually very selective if they're any good.

Any decent private school has standards - and a waiting list - and can pick the best of their applicants.


Which is part of the reason it is ridiculous to compare private and public school achievement.
2013-12-08 12:59:56 AM
1 votes:
ongbok: He says that it doesn't matter about the prosperity of the people in the district, public schools are shiat to teach at because the kids know they can get away with almost anything and not get kicked out, and there isn't much accountability from the parents because of the same. He said private schools a kid steps out of line once, both them and their parents get their only warning and the next time they are out.

I have a friend who teaches at a private school that is in a neighborhood that is undergoing a demographic shift, and therefore enrollment is down.

There are several kids in her class alone that should be juvie hall, but they wont be kicked out because their tuition checks keep the doors open.
2013-12-08 12:59:35 AM
1 votes:

NFA: The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.


I don't know if that's true or not, but the private secular school I attended wouldn't touch a kid who had been expelled from public school with a 10 and a half foot pole even if the kid's parents could afford it.

Private schools, religious or not, are usually very selective if they're any good.

Any decent private school has standards - and a waiting list - and can pick the best of their applicants.
2013-12-08 12:56:06 AM
1 votes:

Bucky Katt: Too bad.  There's not much actual evidence that private schools are in fact better than public ones.


thats because the private schools cook the books.

A lot of parents what to send their kids to the catholic schools to take advantage of the grade inflation and boost their transcripts for college.

Even when  i was in high school, there were kids in the private catholic school who had GPAs of like 104.3 and 105.0. Because any extra credit they earned got tacked on top, not averaged in.

It was a good recruitment tool for the school to get enrollments up because they could say their kids had higher averages (and of course, the only explanation for that is, they teach more gooder).
2013-12-08 12:54:54 AM
1 votes:
I have a friend who has been a teacher for almost 20 years. He has taught at both private and public schools. He says if you can live with the pay when you first start out, private schools are much better to teach at. He says that it doesn't matter about the prosperity of the people in the district, public schools are shiat to teach at because the kids know they can get away with almost anything and not get kicked out, and there isn't much accountability from the parents because of the same. He said private schools a kid steps out of line once, both them and their parents get their only warning and the next time they are out. He said the only problem with private schools is the pay when you first start out, but after you have a few years under your belt, you can move up to the schools that pay more and earn almost as much or the same as public school teachers.
2013-12-08 12:52:07 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: if you live in a shiatty part of town the schools are going to be shiatty as well.


In most cases, if you have the money for an unsubsidized private school education, you have the money to avoid the shiatty part of town.
2013-12-08 12:51:30 AM
1 votes:
Too bad.  There's not much actual evidence that private schools are in fact better than public ones.
2013-12-08 12:51:30 AM
1 votes:
Even if we take his word that enrollment has tripled that still only applies to Britain.  I'm guessing there's more to it than "parents want their kids to have morals".
2013-12-08 12:50:48 AM
1 votes:

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I did the private school thing and got a very solid foundation in math. Even the evolution hot issue was resolved with "God did it, and this is just discovering how cool it is in detail".

Grew up fundie, but excessive reading of the Bible and a good dose of inquisitiveness (from a solid foundation in math and science) led me to reject the Christian faith. Irony is cruel bastard, I guess.

I'm surprised they mentioned the creationism/ID debate at all. Evolution was a bigger controversy at my public high school than it was the local private Christian academy.


Maybe Christians aren't all hot under the collar about being anti-science? Just the loud mouth ones are.
2013-12-08 12:42:24 AM
1 votes:
When one reads the Bible, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what He doesn't know.
- Mark Twain
2013-12-08 12:36:25 AM
1 votes:

Nabb1: NFA: Some Coke Drinking Guy: There are a lot of reasons you may want to send your kid to a private school, and if many communities, your choices of private schools may be limited.  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?  I can't bring him back to life if he gets killed in a race riot.

The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.   Religious schools are becoming dumping grounds for troubled youth who have been kicked out of public schools which have zero tolerance policies.

When I was a kid I attended St. Paul's private school, it was common for me and my classmates to be mugged by other older students in the restroom.  They would steal the money you brought to school for the collection plate.  The muggers were the public school rejects.

Not everywhere. In New Orleans, the best schools are private religious schools and they will boot troublemakers out in an instant.


Same thing for western NY state.  Not sure about other areas, but religious schools cost a good chunk of money to go to.  We did have a kid or two who had problems, but they were either the smartass bully kid of a rich parent, or a kid that had personality issues.  Not many, just a couple.
2013-12-08 12:35:41 AM
1 votes:

Fubini: There are lots of places where it is possible to be permanently expelled from a school, from a school district, all the way up to the entire educational system of the state.


I've been reading up on it, and I can't find anything from any state that even suggests a student who is expelled from one school is expelled from the school system.  Most talk about expulsion lasting at most a year, which is just a suspension, not an expulsion.  Are you sure you aren't confusing school expulsion with schooling expulsion?
2013-12-08 12:34:29 AM
1 votes:

Frederick: Education is always what the student makes of it.


this this everything this

NFA: The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district


also this

Lsherm: High teacher turnover,.... In that case, a private school, even a religious one, is preferable.


my ex wife is in her third catholic school where my kids go, there is probably more turnover there than at a public school that offers a living wage and affordable health insurance that covers family planning.  I think more than half the faculty has been there less than four years and can think of two teachers that are lifers.

I'm not dismissing them, but sometimes a catholic school job is just an entry position until something better comes along.
2013-12-08 12:28:49 AM
1 votes:

Lsherm: Private schools are allowed to expel students permanently, public schools are not.  Someone was paying for your bullies to be there.


Rules & laws regarding expulsion are created on a state by state basis (like most everything else in education).

There are lots of places where it is possible to be permanently expelled from a school, from a school district, all the way up to the entire educational system of the state.
2013-12-07 11:55:11 PM
1 votes:

Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.


No, some public schools just really suck ass.  Since they're funded primarily by local property taxes, if you live in a shiatty part of town the schools are going to be shiatty as well. High teacher turnover, lack of resources, and a hostile environment to learning might be the norm.  In that case, a private school, even a religious one, is preferable.

I went to Jesuit schools K-12 and they were on par with the public schools in the area, if not a little better because they didn't have to put up with behavioral problem students.  But if you're in a truly shiatty district?  That difference might be very significant.
NFA [TotalFark]
2013-12-07 10:17:33 PM
1 votes:

Some Coke Drinking Guy: There are a lot of reasons you may want to send your kid to a private school, and if many communities, your choices of private schools may be limited.  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?  I can't bring him back to life if he gets killed in a race riot.


The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.   Religious schools are becoming dumping grounds for troubled youth who have been kicked out of public schools which have zero tolerance policies.

When I was a kid I attended St. Paul's private school, it was common for me and my classmates to be mugged by other older students in the restroom.  They would steal the money you brought to school for the collection plate.  The muggers were the public school rejects.
 
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