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(NPR)   Number of secular parents sending their children to religious school triples in the last few years   (m.npr.org) divider line 171
    More: Ironic, Jewish day school, Judeo-Christian tradition, Pew Research Center  
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5858 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2013 at 12:26 AM (45 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-08 12:21:41 PM  

Duke_leto_Atredes: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.

Public schools in low income areas are day care centers for the great unwashed I and my wife as well as the grand parents help out in the school. In the class with the homework after school in sports by not reliving any fails jock dreams through my kids. And finally two words " learn English" not Spanglish or Ebonics


You're telling them to learn English with the single most garbled sentence I've ever seen.
 
2013-12-08 12:27:05 PM  
It seems that some Farkers seem to be willing to knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the jeebus.

Which is exactly the same mis-prioritization that leads some parents to pull their kids out of public school and knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the soshilizm.
 
2013-12-08 12:39:37 PM  

Selena Luna: Duke_leto_Atredes: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.

Public schools in low income areas are day care centers for the great unwashed I and my wife as well as the grand parents help out in the school. In the class with the homework after school in sports by not reliving any fails jock dreams through my kids. And finally two words " learn English" not Spanglish or Ebonics

You're telling them to learn English with the single most garbled sentence I've ever seen.


Oh snap!
 
2013-12-08 12:57:51 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: It seems that some Farkers seem to be willing to knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the jeebus.

Which is exactly the same mis-prioritization that leads some parents to pull their kids out of public school and knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the soshilizm.


Because everyone has the same access to private schools? Maybe in your communist fantasies.
 
2013-12-08 12:57:55 PM  

jst3p: There is a guy who comes to work with the ashes on his forehead every year. Isn't that the opposite of the whole 'pray quietly' thing?


There's also a thing in the apocryphal Acts of the Apostles about Jeebus telling the Apostles not to hide themselves away for fear of persecution.
 
2013-12-08 01:03:29 PM  

legion_of_doo: jst3p: There is a guy who comes to work with the ashes on his forehead every year. Isn't that the opposite of the whole 'pray quietly' thing?

There's also a thing in the apocryphal Acts of the Apostles about Jeebus telling the Apostles not to hide themselves away for fear of persecution.


If there's one thing the developed world is known for, it's the widespread persecution of christians. I heard a group of them had to experience eye rolling, yes EYE ROLLING, while they were loudly praying over their Golden Corral bounty. The horror.
 
2013-12-08 01:34:03 PM  

HammerHeadSnark: rkiller1: THIS.  At my son's private, secular school, if you behave perfectly but have a C-average, they will ask you to leave.

That's about as nonsensical as anything I've ever heard. A "C average student" is an average student. Average. A mostly equal number of students are above and below the C students.


For a random sample of fourth-graders, that's true, but since they a) cherry-pick students (again 7 applicants for every acceptance) and b) grade against a standard instead of a curve only about one of the 40 students per year has below a C-average.  This is across all subjects including math, science, art, music, Latin, French and language arts,  A C-grade in one class for one semester will get you a teacher conference, so you really have to goof-off to get an end-of-year average of a C.
 
2013-12-08 02:30:15 PM  
Govt schools suck compared to private.... Well thank you captain obvious.

Just think these same people that dont think govt schools are good enough for thier snowflake want govt healthcare... till they actually get it.

As a much smarter man than myself once said the very definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting a different result each time.
 
2013-12-08 02:55:37 PM  
No mention of the Catholics history of molesting children and helping to cover it up?  I must say, I'm surprised.  If I were trying to make the decision on where to send my kids, that would be a consideration.

Some time back I had a part time job teaching basic chess lessons to kids after school.  It was fun, easy, paid well, and the kids were really enjoying it, so that made it fun for me.  Some of the schools we taught in were public, some private.  One Catholic school had a "class" we had to take in order to teach there.  The company I worked for paid for the class, which was $100 a person (and given by one of the employees at the church.)  It was essentially "These are things to watch for to recognize that a child is being abused, and if you believe a child is being abused, come tell us, don't go to the police".  I didn't say anything because it wouldn't have helped and they would have just not let me teach there, but if I suspect a kid is being abused at a catholic church, talking to the church is pretty much the last step, and talking to the police is one of the first.
 
2013-12-08 03:05:01 PM  
I went to a Catholic high school for 9th grade only and the academics were total shiat.  The worst teachers I ever had were at that school (though there were a couple good ones, it couldn't be balanced out).  Transferred out to the public high school for 10th and never, ever regretted it.
 
2013-12-08 04:35:49 PM  

Lsherm: Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.

No, some public schools just really suck ass.  Since they're funded primarily by local property taxes, if you live in a shiatty part of town the schools are going to be shiatty as well. High teacher turnover, lack of resources, and a hostile environment to learning might be the norm.  In that case, a private school, even a religious one, is preferable.

I went to Jesuit schools K-12 and they were on par with the public schools in the area, if not a little better because they didn't have to put up with behavioral problem students.  But if you're in a truly shiatty district?  That difference might be very significant.


I was in the second graduating class at my Catholic high school.  Starting out, they were taking just about anybody (I mean, they took me, didn't they).  At the beginning of my junior year, I noticed some of the "usual suspects" had disappeared from the senior class and my year.  I was told that at the end of the previous school year, there had been a bit of a purge and the guys who were probably destined for Cook County jail, were told not to come back.
 
2013-12-08 05:16:49 PM  

Occam's Disposable Razor: FizixJunkee: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.

It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.


Bingo!  Went through 12 years of Catholic schooling.  After 3rd grade, I knew there was something completely wrong with what we were being taught by the nuns.  I was convinced, if there was a God, as they described, he was an absolute lunatic, thus, there probably wasn't a God.  Went through all the motions and mumbled the all the words, to survive.  When I hit Catholic high school, it was completely different, no more indoctrination, more discussion of social issues.  Took 4 years of science, and that is where I became an atheist.  There was no mention of God, in any of these classes.  The god we learned about was the scientific method.  It was physics, and not, metaphysics.  In biology, when we got to evolution, there was no discussion concerning the controversy over it, because, there was no controversy.  Evolution was taught as a fact, period.
 
2013-12-08 05:49:00 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: It seems that some Farkers seem to be willing to knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the jeebus.

Which is exactly the same mis-prioritization that leads some parents to pull their kids out of public school and knowingly prevent their children from getting the best possible education if doing so meant they might be exposed to the soshilizm.


People pull their kids out of public school because they're afraid they might get exposed to teh Izlam (I have literally heard this used as a reason), might have to get vaccinated (I have also literally heard this used as a reason), or might get taught that common core bullshiat--or worse, might only get taught to pass the tests and thus, might not get educated (I have seen this with my own eyes). Socialism is secondary (unless you're a tea partier).

But denying your child a good education because "JEEBUS!!" is as crazy as denying your child a good education because "MUHAMMAD!" Parenting is your job, not the school's. If you think religion is nonsense, what the hell is wrong with letting the kid learn what you believe is a fairy tale in the same way they learn fairly tales as toddlers? How are they going to know what is or is not a fairy tale if they're never exposed to it?

Education isn't teaching kids to repeat your beliefs or the beliefs of their instructors by rote: it is teaching them to think for themselves. If they're never exposed to anything other than what we, as parents, believe, how are they going to be able to learn to do that?
 
2013-12-08 06:18:33 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: Because everyone has the same access to private schools? Maybe in your communist fantasies.


I did not claim that everyone has the same access to private schools, now did I?

It would seem to be obvious that my comment is directed at parents who COULD put their kids in an exceptional private or public school, but DON'T for no other reason that their fear of indoctrination. Whatever that fear is. If you think so little of your own children that you think they will be brainwashed against your parenting, then you probably don't do much parenting, and you probably aren't all that concerned about the quality of their education anyway.

Oh. And Also, if you WANT it, you can put your kids in private school. Most Catholic schools will adjust tuition based on need, but you have to ask and you have to persuade them. My parents put 3 kids through private grade school on state worker incomes. Not easy. It meant we didn't get any new clothes except on Christmas and birthdays, it mean driving old junkers, it meant no vacations, and eating out once a month, maybe if it was a special event. No cable TV, not even call waiting on the home phone. Bag lunches and patched jeans. They had to drive us two towns over every morning and every evening before and after their work.

It wasn't until I was older that I realized that wasn't the norm. And when I was much older, I realized that we weren't unique. A LOT of parents are willing to fight and scrimp and save and do whatever they have to to give their kids a leg up on their future. It's just not the norm.

They kept themselves in poverty for a decade to give us a quality education. They did without for themselves for ten years. So yeah, everyone CAN do that. But most won't.
 
2013-12-08 07:13:48 PM  

JuggleGeek: No mention of the Catholics history of molesting children and helping to cover it up?  I must say, I'm surprised.  If I were trying to make the decision on where to send my kids, that would be a consideration.


Really, the chances of your child being molested are pretty slim.  He's not that sexy.

Okay, but seriously, if you teach them well, talk to them even if they are approached it's almost as likely to happen in public school as it is in a private school.  Catholics get a lot of press and heat over this issue because people expect churches to be bastions of morality and also because they have a history of trying to sweep it under the rug.

You think that shiat doesn't go on in public schools?
 
2013-12-08 08:23:58 PM  

gfid: You think that shiat doesn't go on in public schools?


I think if it happens in public schools and they get caught, they get busted.  I think if they get caught in a catholic school, they probably just get moved to another school.  And the fact that they know it will be tolerated and the church will help cover it up encourages some to go for it, because there is less risk when getting caught means "move to another town" not "lose your job and go to jail".
 
2013-12-08 09:11:51 PM  

JuggleGeek: I think if they get caught in a catholic school, they probably just get moved to another school. And the fact that they know it will be tolerated and the church will help cover it up encourages some to go for it, because there is less risk when getting caught means "move to another town" not "lose your job and go to jail".

It's important to note that many of the cases that have blackened the reputation of the Catholic Church were incidents that largely happened many decades ago, and it's hard to argue that this sort of thing is CURRENTLY tolerated.

Secondly, pedophiles act on a compulsion, not a rational, reasoned and considered agenda. Meaning that the risk of being caught is not a detterant to someone with a mental illness.

Thirdly, your child's trauma will not be avoided after they are molested because the offender's punishment is harsher. Best to protect them in the first place, and statistically speaking, they are safer in a Catholic School than in a public school.
but I suspect your mind is made up already if you are using 'fear of molestation' as a primary consideration in your child's education.
 
2013-12-08 10:12:20 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: It's important to note that many of the cases that have blackened the reputation of the Catholic Church were incidents that largely happened many decades ago, and it's hard to argue that this sort of thing is CURRENTLY tolerated.


I see exactly zero evidence that anything has changed.  You're telling me that I should ignore the fact that they've spent decades trying to cover it  up.  That doesn't make sense.  Decades worth of evidence add up to "do not trust them".

Secondly, pedophiles act on a compulsion, not a rational, reasoned and considered agenda. Meaning that the risk of being caught is not a detterant to someone with a mental illness.

I suspect that's true, but if they are caught and charged, they will be much less likely to be in a position to do it again.  The next time they get a

Thirdly, your child's trauma will not be avoided after they are molested because the offender's punishment is harsher.

That looks like an intentional strawman, since I didn't say or imply anything similar.  But offenders who get punished are less likely to be able to offend again  Offenders who simply get moved to another location with everything hushed up are almost certainly going to offend again.

Best to protect them in the first place, and statistically speaking, they are safer in a Catholic School than in a public school.

That's possible, but I think it would depend on the specific schools.

but I suspect your mind is made up already if you are using 'fear of molestation' as a primary consideration in your child's education.

I don't know that it would be the primary consideration, but it certainly should not just be ignored, the way you would like.

Your story certainly fits the way the Catholics do things.  "Pretend it's all ok, deny it, tell people it isn't important.  Tell them that once it's happened, it's too late to stop it so there is no point in punishing them.  Tell them it's a mental illness so it shouldn't be a crime".  Disgusting.
 
2013-12-08 10:33:20 PM  

BojanglesPaladin: Shakin_Haitian: Because everyone has the same access to private schools? Maybe in your communist fantasies.

I did not claim that everyone has the same access to private schools, now did I?

It would seem to be obvious that my comment is directed at parents who COULD put their kids in an exceptional private or public school, but DON'T for no other reason that their fear of indoctrination. Whatever that fear is. If you think so little of your own children that you think they will be brainwashed against your parenting, then you probably don't do much parenting, and you probably aren't all that concerned about the quality of their education anyway.

Oh. And Also, if you WANT it, you can put your kids in private school. Most Catholic schools will adjust tuition based on need, but you have to ask and you have to persuade them. My parents put 3 kids through private grade school on state worker incomes. Not easy. It meant we didn't get any new clothes except on Christmas and birthdays, it mean driving old junkers, it meant no vacations, and eating out once a month, maybe if it was a special event. No cable TV, not even call waiting on the home phone. Bag lunches and patched jeans. They had to drive us two towns over every morning and every evening before and after their work.

It wasn't until I was older that I realized that wasn't the norm. And when I was much older, I realized that we weren't unique. A LOT of parents are willing to fight and scrimp and save and do whatever they have to to give their kids a leg up on their future. It's just not the norm.

They kept themselves in poverty for a decade to give us a quality education. They did without for themselves for ten years. So yeah, everyone CAN do that. But most won't.


Of course your parents could afford to keep you in private school with that fat government paycheck. Must be nice for them not having to work so they could drive you to school because of the government unions.
 
2013-12-09 12:35:52 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: Of course your parents could afford to keep you in private school with that fat government paycheck. Must be nice for them not having to work so they could drive you to school because of the government unions


ROFL. I'm assuming you are being funny, didn't read my post, or have no idea what Texas pays state employees. Much less what they did many decades ago. Eventually, they gave up the public sector and they are doing just fine. My point is that parents who are willing to sacrifice beyond most people's comfort level can get their kids into a private school even if very poor.

Just FY BTW from a 2011 report:

"In terms of pay, public employees in Texas rank 25th with an average annual salary of $40,550, while private employees rank 14th, making on average $45,700. Considering total compensation, the $51,310 salary and benefits package puts public employees here in 30th place, while the $54,890 package for private employees ranks 14th"
 
2013-12-09 09:51:35 AM  

Some Coke Drinking Guy: I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?


So long as you weren't planning on him majoring in the natural sciences later on, I guess.
 
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