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(NPR)   Number of secular parents sending their children to religious school triples in the last few years   (m.npr.org) divider line 171
    More: Ironic, Jewish day school, Judeo-Christian tradition, Pew Research Center  
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5857 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2013 at 12:26 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-08 03:11:24 AM
WTF is a secular parent
 
2013-12-08 03:18:49 AM

Begoggle: WTF is a secular parent


A parent who isn't religious? I'm some some very secular person will give you a 'correct' definition.
 
2013-12-08 03:19:28 AM

Begoggle: WTF is a secular parent


Our Father, who aren't in heaven ...
 
2013-12-08 03:21:33 AM
- Private, religious schools can be better than the public offering.
- Not all religious schools take it super seriously.
 
2013-12-08 03:27:41 AM
A big part of what your kids get out of any education is what you as their parent help them relate it to back in real (home) life.  If you aren't capable of being involved in their education and leave it up to the schools then fuk it.  You are just breeding another of your miserable kind and can't expect improvements.  Public schools help dipshiats raise dipshiats but they also help give smart families a good base to inspire their children to reach further.  Public schools are always filled with the melted snowflakes.  But when a parent helps at home and works with the school you get great results.  Of course, any time a parent is actively involved, it's hard not to get good results.  Dipshiat parents are rarely involved.  It mostly works out with everyone.  Unless you are in a high crime district.
 
2013-12-08 03:36:48 AM
FTFA : And, you know, why was it that so few scientists, philosophers, indeed religious leaders outside Judaism, stood up to protest the Holocaust as it was happening?

I would assume that they probably didn't want to get killed.

NFA: When I was a kid I attended St. Paul's private school, it was common for me and my classmates to be mugged by other older students in the restroom. They would steal the money you brought to school for the collection plate. The muggers were the public school rejects.


Your parents were paying to have you in a private school, the school didn't stop other kids from mugging you, and you were also expected to put money in a collection plate?  Wow.
 
2013-12-08 03:44:46 AM

trappedspirit: A big part of what your kids get out of any education is what you as their parent help them relate it to back in real (home) life.  If you aren't capable of being involved in their education and leave it up to the schools then fuk it.  You are just breeding another of your miserable kind and can't expect improvements.  Public schools help dipshiats raise dipshiats but they also help give smart families a good base to inspire their children to reach further.  Public schools are always filled with the melted snowflakes.  But when a parent helps at home and works with the school you get great results.  Of course, any time a parent is actively involved, it's hard not to get good results.  Dipshiat parents are rarely involved.  It mostly works out with everyone.  Unless you are in a high crime district.


This.

And I will add even if you are in a high crime district, an involved parent will also lead to a successful student. And the reason why private school kids parents are more involved is simple. if you are writing a check every month, you are going to want to see some results from that check, therefore you are going to be on your child to give you those results. But realistically we are all writing a check every month through our taxes for education, but with most people until it is taking money from their take home pay, it isn't real to them which is what makes private school parents get involved and what makes them successful, which is sad.
 
2013-12-08 03:47:40 AM
Marilyn Manson's in the making
 
2013-12-08 04:06:36 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Marilyn Manson's in the making


They're all going to be millionaires?
 
2013-12-08 04:08:07 AM

DVOM: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Marilyn Manson's in the making

They're all going to be millionaires?


Well spoken, rich, educated and stay out of trouble?
 
2013-12-08 04:09:28 AM
Private or public isn't really the most important thing.  What's most important is parental involvement (if you're sending your kid to a private school, you're less likely to be paying zero attention to her education) and the selectivity of the school.

Selective private college prep schools are leagues better than most public schools primarily because the caliber of student is so much higher.  It's like comparing Harvard to UMass; there are plenty of bright kids at UMass, but everyone at Harvard is bright.
 
2013-12-08 04:15:39 AM

ongbok: Yep, on the average private school teachers are paid less, but they can move up to the schools that pay more with experience, and like I said before, can get to about what public school teachers make and their benefits with experience. Doesn't bode well if you are sending your kids to one of the lower tier schools as the teachers are constantly rotating out.

But the other parts do have a lot to do with teachers have it better. In public schools the teachers do have a set curriculum, as they should, but they do have some flexibility on how they teach it. In most private schools they also have that same set curriculum as the public schools, but the teachers are give a cookie cuter framework to teach it in, and a lot of time that framework depends on the schools mission statement.



I meant the *school* has flexibility, not necessarily the individual teachers. There's more room to experiment with (and morelocalised responsibility for) pedagogical frameworks and greater capacity to address a range of other preferences/needs (from the missionstatement on down). That can be a problem in the wrong hands, but IMO when private schools are better that is one of the factors.
 
2013-12-08 04:16:02 AM
My kid already has his name down at the local Catholic school.  It's small and has a kick ass curriculum. Since I can afford it, I'd be stupid to send him anywhere else.
 
2013-12-08 04:20:31 AM

Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.


This.

Public schools aren't bad. Anywhere with books and a seat can open the world to you.

The problem, yet again, is class warfare. No one wants to help/see the poor.
 
2013-12-08 04:40:16 AM
Labor unions ruin something? Unpossible.
 
2013-12-08 04:43:37 AM

jst3p: Divinegrace: jst3p: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Says the non-parent.

What do you mean by non-parent?

What do you mean by "what do you mean"?


What I mean by 'what do you mean is'...

Are you telling us that I am a non-parent because my son is in college and 'no longer my child' because he is no longer a child and now a full grown man?

Or do you mean I am non-parent because I was so bad at being a parent with my child that multiple other couples have asked/made me Godfather to their children.

I am sure you an actual parent because you have more children who are 'still children'. I am also sure that many, Many, MANY more couples have asked for you to take their place as the parent to their children in the case of their death than I, right?
 
2013-12-08 05:40:03 AM
In Western Canada, it's pretty normal to attend catholic school OR public school for young kids. If you have no set religion or are nominally catholic or orthodox, a parent satisfies the paper work to simply attend the school nearest to their house. After elementary, they go back to public school until graduation OR continue because catholic schools in the area have better French immersion programs.

French immersion is where the kid speaks French for all math, science and social studies classes (by high school), as well as a French & English class. Options are all in English in Alberta at least.

The important point to take away from this is that it almost never has to do with religion directly, but with knowing French.

Knowing French is one of the key skills a Canadian must have in order to go into government, some areas of law, education and is generally good for university.

/doesn't know much French
//is still a cook instead of an archaeologist
///strongly agnostic & raised SDA
 
2013-12-08 05:56:10 AM
Eh, it's not really religious schools being preferred so much as parents willing to experiment with private schools in general and charters (essentially budget private schools at the primary/secondary level) becoming more commonplace as a result.

Religious private schools have basically the same quality-spread as private schools in general, which is basically a normal distribution of quality.  The distinction from public schools isn't really the  average, it's the  spread, which is much, much wider, there are not public schools even close to as good as the best privates or even remotely as bad as the worst privates, but for most privates public/private's pretty interchangeable.

He's the rough distribution on quality:

+2 sd (about 2%): State-funded early-admit college prep schools where you essentially get early access to college courses that also fill your high-school curriculum requirements.  Always consistently high-quality, but naturally very limited in supply of spots, making them competitive and very difficult to stay in once you're in due to high pressure and academic expectations.  Also only really exist for high school.

+1 sd (about 14%): Mag-net schools founded specifically to provide a higher-quality education that actually succeed at it, at least within their specialty.  Generally these are either absurdly expensive, or of very limited duration because they essentially rely on young, skilled teachers being willing to work for peanuts (something that only lasts about two years before they move on to somewhere with a better offered wage or long-term benefits, which even the public system provides).  This can make moving your kid there based on reputation kinda dicey.  Some (but not all) jesuit programs tend to fall in this bracket but a bit more reliably.

+0 sd: The middle of the distribution (68%ish): Specialty schools that tweak the environment in some way but don't really impact academics one way or the other.  The most common, especially among the religious schools, is the sex-segregated school.  Another common variation is the coed school where basically the only difference is silly uniforms (the vanilla "Catholic school") and that most of your classmates hail jesus slightly more often than satan.  The only really dangerous and socially damaging habit people pick up in these tends to be the mistaken impression that Christian Rock is actually good.  If you're actually paying money for these schools, the life lesson is that a lot of environmental factors you delude yourself into thinking influential as a parent actually mean fark-all to child development.

-1 sd (about 14%): Ideology-centric schools that actually try to mess with the curriculum to try to fit a world-view or mold the students into some specific profession.  This is basically pulling the low-card if you select a generic "religious" school, there will be some relatively stupid shiat your kid will be taught (creationism, the south should have won the civil war, etc), but nothing is  neglected per se.  Send your kid to college and most of it will get stamped out by annoyed and unsympathetic (but competent) instructors, if your kid doesn't go to college everyone they meet is going to make jokes like 'I hear banjos, paddle faster' whenever they enter the room.

-2 sd (about 2%): Oh, shiat, you pulled the charter school equivalent of Bob Jones University!  This tier is literally just a scam to take your money, the teachers haven't even passed high school themselves and the curriculum is essentially 100 monkeys locked in a room with 100 typewriters for a month, but the con man running the operation is just slick enough to trick the state into thinking the job's being done at minimum competence level because your state essentially explicitly bans actually checking up on charters in any meaningful way.  Look for the administrators to somehow pass the buck and skip town with a suspiciously large bonus about a semester before the school finally just straight-up folds.  A lot more protestant schools than Catholic in this category, because shiate quality control is still  some quality control, and religions like Southern Baptism and Mormonism were literally founded for the benefit of con men.
 
2013-12-08 06:12:17 AM

Sum Dum Gai: Not every school grades on a curve.  Mine (a Catholic school that also kicked out students who failed to maintain a B average) simply had an absolute grading scale - 90% and up was an A, 80% and up a B, etc.


Adding points isn't grading on a curve.

Grading on a curve actually involves fitting your results to a normal distribution with the mean to -1sd at a "C", the mean+ to +1sd being a "B", and above that being an "A".

It's usually significantly nastier than an absolute scale fir students, because unless your class has a pretty top-skewed tail or high-end outliers, in the long run it pretty much guarantees that about 10% to 20% of your class will automatically fail outright (since a D is generally considered a fail in primary/secondary ed: it often doesn't matter in college for non-major courses).

This is an important distinction because this is usually how colleges are going to calculate your  actual grade for admittance purposes (since college admissions officers generally passed stats 1 at some point)... it's why they ask for class rank.  Top 15% of the class?  A student.  Next 35% down?  B.  Next 35%?  C.  Below that?  D/Failure.

// Note that a distribution where everyone passes typically means like 3/4 of the class gets a C due to how mean-shifting works when you skew a normal distribution, so even no one failing can be kind of a downer.
 
2013-12-08 06:43:33 AM

Bucky Katt: Too bad.  There's not much actual evidence that private schools are in fact better than public ones.


Again, that largely depends on where you are and the schools available to you. If you are a parent who cares, you look into it. If your political sensibilities are more important than your children, then I guess you blindly let your political ideology make your decisions for you.
 
2013-12-08 06:48:56 AM
Your dogma ate my homework?
 
2013-12-08 06:50:34 AM
No better way to make sure your kids become atheists than sending them to Catholic school.
 
2013-12-08 07:14:19 AM
When they start doing that charter school voucher program that takes money away from public schools and gives it to the private schools.  Then yeah, private school becomes affordable for the religious nutters.
 
2013-12-08 07:18:17 AM
There is nothing wrong with believing in some sort of higher power.  Also, my daughter's Catholic high school has a kick-azz STEM program.

/proud mom of a nerdy girl
 
2013-12-08 07:28:52 AM
Churches are highly segregated.
 
2013-12-08 07:30:10 AM

Occam's Disposable Razor: FizixJunkee: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.

It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.


I say heavily project your beliefs on your child from a young age so they have zero ability to go their own path and figure anything out on your own, since it seems you won't be satisfied with how smart he is unless he thinks like you do.
 
2013-12-08 07:36:58 AM

XanthPrime: When they start doing that charter school voucher program that takes money away from public schools and gives it to the private schools.  Then yeah, private school becomes affordable for the religious nutters.


Instead of parents that pay for their children to go private school in addition to paying taxes for public schools that their children will never attend.

AMonkey'sUncle: Your dogma ate my homework?


My karma ran over your dogma?
 
2013-12-08 07:41:32 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.


Well, that and the no public school teacher's union.  Private school can actually fire that teacher who yells at kids and has poor test scores.

Also private schools tend to attract the best teachers.  It's not just the students who prefer the smaller classroom sizes, more structures environment, and less bureaucratic overhead.
 
2013-12-08 07:51:34 AM

alice_600: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I did the private school thing and got a very solid foundation in math. Even the evolution hot issue was resolved with "God did it, and this is just discovering how cool it is in detail".

Grew up fundie, but excessive reading of the Bible and a good dose of inquisitiveness (from a solid foundation in math and science) led me to reject the Christian faith. Irony is cruel bastard, I guess.

I'm surprised they mentioned the creationism/ID debate at all. Evolution was a bigger controversy at my public high school than it was the local private Christian academy.

Maybe Christians aren't all hot under the collar about being anti-science? Just the loud mouth ones are.


And finally someone understands.

By the way, most of us roll our eyes at the loud mouth ones because science is pretty clear that it's literally impossible for the earth to be a mere 6000 years old because, like Galileo, we refuse to believe that a God that gave us brains and the capacity to use intellect, logic and reason intends us to forgo their use.
 
2013-12-08 07:51:53 AM

XanthPrime: When they start doing that charter school voucher program that takes money away from public schools and gives it to the private schools.  Then yeah, private school becomes affordable for the religious nutters.


Yeah, giving parents the choice of spending the money the state allocates for their kids' education where they want to.  What an insidious plot!

Most charter schools and private schools do as good as or sometimes better job of educating kids as the public schools but for a fraction of the cost.  The whining you hear about "taking money away from public schools" comes from the unions.  They are the major beneficiary of public vs. private education.  Funny thing is that students are not even on unions' radar; nor do unions care much for the teachers they supposedly represent.  Also inherent in the public school system bloated administrative salaries.

It would be a lot easier to care about money being taken out of a whiny public education system if it were actually educating anybody.
 
2013-12-08 08:01:10 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.


This x1000
 
2013-12-08 08:14:31 AM

HammerHeadSnark: rkiller1: THIS.  At my son's private, secular school, if you behave perfectly but have a C-average, they will ask you to leave.

That's about as nonsensical as anything I've ever heard. A "C average student" is an average student. Average. A mostly equal number of students are above and below the C students. If you remove all the current average and below students then the next year those students who were As and Bs now will divide into five groups ranging from A to E . . . and another sub-group of Cs come into being . . . and they get tossed out. Soon, there can be only one student.


Only if you grade on a curve.  Which is stupid as hell.  Use a fixed scale, cutting the "C" average students and the quality of your students will drastically improve and your student body will be smarter than the other schools.

My daughter went to christian schools from 2nd to 9th grade and catholic school until graduation.  The number one thing the headmasters said from the get go was your kid mis-behaves, causes problems and she's out.
 
2013-12-08 08:49:35 AM
As the mother of a 24 year old (went to public schools) and a 4 year old (now in private pre-k but slated to go to a catholic school next year), I'll be damned if I send another one of my kids to public schools.

She was so totally failed by the system here in NYC that any dogma that we may face in the catholic system with the little one would be a welcome challenge. I feel that the current combination of Common Core curriculum and the lack of parental involvement in the educational lives of the "average" student in this city is what's driving up non-secular enrollment. I feel comfortable in the notion that won't have my son mugged, attacked or harassed by animals in catholic school and comfortable in the fact that the curriculum is aggressive enough to provide a better education than public schools.

NYC public schools are shiatholes, it's worth the money and the church membership to send your little one's elsewhere! You get what you pay for in NYC.
 
2013-12-08 08:54:24 AM
Some Coke Drinking Guy:  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?

When I was in the seventh grade, I failed a quarter of religion class (there was only one assignment, and I didn't do it). The headmistress called me down to the office and gave me the "why do you think your parents sent you here, but for a good Catholic education? I'm calling your mother, go back to class."

Mom was waiting for me at the door of the house with the fire in her eyes. She said "MISS COAKLEY CALLED, YOU FAILED A CLASS?!1!" (she spoke in all caps) "Yeah, mom, religion." To which she replied "Oh, as long as it wasn't anything important."

/Our Lady of Perpetual Help
//CSB
 
2013-12-08 08:57:04 AM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: I did the private school thing and got a very solid foundation in math. Even the evolution hot issue was resolved with "God did it, and this is just discovering how cool it is in detail".

Grew up fundie, but excessive reading of the Bible and a good dose of inquisitiveness (from a solid foundation in math and science) led me to reject the Christian faith. Irony is cruel bastard, I guess.

I'm surprised they mentioned the creationism/ID debate at all. Evolution was a bigger controversy at my public high school than it was the local private Christian academy.


It was a Catholic school and the bishop was fairly progressive (for a Catholic). Evolution was a settled issue (but the big guy did it), just like teaching sex education (but don't do anything until marriage).
 
2013-12-08 08:57:52 AM

ongbok: trappedspirit: A big part of what your kids get out of any education is what you as their parent help them relate it to back in real (home) life.  If you aren't capable of being involved in their education and leave it up to the schools then fuk it.  You are just breeding another of your miserable kind and can't expect improvements.  Public schools help dipshiats raise dipshiats but they also help give smart families a good base to inspire their children to reach further.  Public schools are always filled with the melted snowflakes.  But when a parent helps at home and works with the school you get great results.  Of course, any time a parent is actively involved, it's hard not to get good results.  Dipshiat parents are rarely involved.  It mostly works out with everyone.  Unless you are in a high crime district.

This.

And I will add even if you are in a high crime district, an involved parent will also lead to a successful student. And the reason why private school kids parents are more involved is simple. if you are writing a check every month, you are going to want to see some results from that check, therefore you are going to be on your child to give you those results. But realistically we are all writing a check every month through our taxes for education, but with most people until it is taking money from their take home pay, it isn't real to them which is what makes private school parents get involved and what makes them successful, which is sad.


Money is only one possible factor in a parent who is involved and a parent who isn't.  Some folks write the check for a private school and expect the school to handle it all, then you have the public school kids who the parents push the kid to take full advantage of the 'free' education they are able to get.  The one main factor is how the parent understands their role as a parent and actually loves their kid.  If the parent is lacking in either, then the kid is screwed.
 
2013-12-08 08:59:20 AM

dg41: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.

This x1000

This statement seems to underscore the need for well funded, excellent public schools since children don't get to choose their parents.  This includes many currently "fiscally unpopular" programs like nutritious school lunches, Head Start, healthcare for children, Social Security (provides for orphans), etc.

I sincerely wish we could agree to allow adults to have necessary publicly funded programs (Socialisms!) so they can at least enjoy basic necessities for living in this civilization, including education. But I think it's horrific to deny those benefits to children, who have no rights of their own.Kids can't choose, can't consent and can only enjoy the opportunities afforded them by adults in our society.

The private option will select students who have money and can achieve in order to maintain the private school's profitability, which as you wrote implies present, competent parents who have the wherewithal to provide for their kids education.

Of course we could just also get rid of ALL schools completely and follow the Khan Academy model. I think this is the shape of things to come. But again, that would require present and engaged parents. Also the teachers that were participating would have to be very skilled.
 
2013-12-08 09:16:22 AM

Divinegrace: XanthPrime: When they start doing that charter school voucher program that takes money away from public schools and gives it to the private schools.  Then yeah, private school becomes affordable for the religious nutters.

Instead of parents that pay for their children to go private school in addition to paying taxes for public schools that their children will never attend.

AMonkey'sUncle: Your dogma ate my homework?

My karma ran over your dogma?


++
 
2013-12-08 09:26:35 AM
I told my wife I have no problem with Catholic/Christian skills SO LONG AS the curriculum (outside of religion classes of course) is not influenced by the church. I have no problem with religion (assuming those practicing are reasonable and not assholes), but learning about creationism/intelligent design instead of evolution is unacceptable and will only hurt you (in school) down the line.
 
2013-12-08 09:35:08 AM
We also have parental conduct requirements at our kids' Catholic school. The enforced parental involvement is good, I think.  When you're self selecting parents who care about education, I don't think there's any mystery as to why the kids perform. I TAKE CARE OF MY KIDS! (/rock)

That being said, there are some good public schools in the area... and those are even MORE difficult to get in. People do camp out to get their kids in. The problem with the best elementary school in our district is that it's a charter school, and the administrators of the public school district HATE the shiat out of that charter & has screwed over the school in so many ways.

Mr. Right: They are the major beneficiary of public vs. private education. Funny thing is that students are not even on unions' radar; nor do unions care much for the teachers they supposedly represent. Also inherent in the public school system bloated administrative salaries.


But how do you give a teacher a promotion with a fat raise if you can't move them into administration?!
 
2013-12-08 09:41:50 AM
Was anyone able to find the link to the article?  The one provided doesn't work for me, searching NPR's site for some of the keywords in the article summary doesn't turn anything up either.
 
2013-12-08 09:47:49 AM

Nabb1: NFA: Some Coke Drinking Guy: There are a lot of reasons you may want to send your kid to a private school, and if many communities, your choices of private schools may be limited.  If the choice is between a really bad public school that inspired the movie "The Substitute", or an okay religious school, even as an atheist, I could see choosing the later.  I mean, I can always tell Johnny his teachers are full of crap when they talk about Noah's Ark, because what kid doesn't love hearing that his teacher is wrong?  I can't bring him back to life if he gets killed in a race riot.

The most common reason a child is moved from public school to a religious school is that they have been expelled from public school and there are no public alternatives without the parents moving to a new district.   Religious schools are becoming dumping grounds for troubled youth who have been kicked out of public schools which have zero tolerance policies.

When I was a kid I attended St. Paul's private school, it was common for me and my classmates to be mugged by other older students in the restroom.  They would steal the money you brought to school for the collection plate.  The muggers were the public school rejects.

Not everywhere. In New Orleans, the best schools are private religious schools and they will boot troublemakers out in an instant.


My experience too. Freshmen in my HS had to share lockers.  But my lockermate was a major greaser asshole, got booted after a month, and I had my own locker the rest of the year.

/csb
 
2013-12-08 10:04:40 AM
What the fark is a "secular parent?"

Santa ought to drop a dictionary into every stocking in America.
 
2013-12-08 10:22:25 AM

legion_of_doo: But how do you give a teacher a promotion with a fat raise if you can't move them into administration?!


I know that every school administrator on Fark will disagree with me on this but most school administration jobs are like any other management position.  Note, that I said management, not executive.  There's a difference.  Additionally, executive jobs in education do not have  the burden of responsibility as great as, say, a manufacturing company where the executives must find a market to serve and build a system from the ground up.  Because of that, most administrators are, in my opinion, vastly overpaid.

Good teachers, on the other hand, should be encouraged to stay as teachers.  When you have a great batter on a baseball team, you don't make him a coach in the prime of his career, you pay him enough to keep hitting the ball for your team.  Of course, in order to be able to afford to do that, you have to be able to put lousy hitters on waivers.  I know that teaching isn't like any kind of free-enterprise system because there isn't a profit margin in their performance.  But if we had a voucher system and a school had better teachers (because it paid them more) you'd have more parents willing to spend their children's per capita at that school.

Of course, that doesn't work in a union environment.  While it is true that unions get contracts that set minimum salaries, they also have, at the other end, caps.  One of the more insidious things about unions is that they limit the potential of great employees as much as they subsidize lousy ones.
 
2013-12-08 10:30:05 AM
My parents put me in a Catholic private high school because I didn't want to confront the bullies that forced me out of school only 6 months earlier. Catholic studies class was twice per week and mass 3 times per year but we could opt out as of Grade 10. The school was terribly underfunded at the time but the teachers were generally good and cared about the students. In the last year, my parents could not afford to send me so I worked in order to continue attending. Religion was never forced down our throats, which worked for me.

Side note: I live in Quebec where we have been barraged since the Spring with a "Charter affirming the values of State secularism and religious neutrality and of equality between women and men, and providing a framework for accommodation requests" (yep, real name) that the separatist government is trying to pass. Quebec got rid of religious school boards in the late 90s and moved solely to language-divided ones. More recently, Religious studies became Ethical Studies where all religions are taught instead of offering the choice of class based on religious (Catholic or Protestant) or Moral Education. Now, the government wants to ban the wearing of all religious paraphernalia by all public sector employees, including teachers, nurses and day care providers. It's been controversial, to say the least. Support for the bill has been largely divided between French-English/Allophone (support, non-support) and urban-rural (non-support, support).

Some context: http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/topic.html?t=keyword&q=charter+of + quebec+values

/end side note
 
2013-12-08 11:23:48 AM

exxxcite: Was anyone able to find the link to the article?  The one provided doesn't work for me, searching NPR's site for some of the keywords in the article summary doesn't turn anything up either.


Mobile version is here. In case that doesn't work, the article is entitled "The Role of Faith In Jewish Life."
 
2013-12-08 11:54:03 AM

tjassen: fred_chan: FTFA: A recent study by the Pew Research Center ...

As a Jew, I am so farking tired of hearing about this goddamn study.

No shiat!

I do occasional freelance work at a major Jewish organization running video conferences for them. Had a bunch of work in the month after the study came out. Holy crap are they running scared! Or not, since this means all their bullshiat educational programs are even more relevant and all sorts of money will get pumped their way ensuring salaries and jobs don't go anywhere. And they get to brainstorm all sorts of new "initiatives" to save the Jews. Bleh... I'm glad I'm not working there full time anymore.

Anyways, a buddy of mine made fun of all the fear mongering and pearl clutching. I helped him with a few of the jokes.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-us-jewry-going-to-hell-in-a- ha ndbasket/
(Warning: May not be funny if you aren't Jewish)


That was farking hilarious! Thank you.
 
2013-12-08 11:58:03 AM

res_nihil: Some Coke Drinking Guy:
Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Near where I grew up "private, christian school" was code for "I don't want my kids going to school with non-whites".


Same here.
 
2013-12-08 12:07:21 PM

Occam's Disposable Razor: rkiller1: Nabb1: the best schools are private religious schools and they will boot troublemakers out in an instant.

THIS.  At my son's private, secular school, if you behave perfectly but have a C-average, they will ask you to leave.

That's ridiculous. A score of C is supposed to be medicore, not grounds for expulsion. The entire student body has a B average or better? Silliness


He lives in Lake Wobegone.
 
2013-12-08 12:20:17 PM

jst3p: There is a guy who comes to work with the ashes on his forehead every year. Isn't that the opposite of the whole 'pray quietly' thing?


No. That is a specific religious observance, no different from, say a jew fasting on a holy day.

That you would consider that to be praying loudly, may say something about you though.
 
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