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(NPR)   Number of secular parents sending their children to religious school triples in the last few years   (m.npr.org) divider line 171
    More: Ironic, Jewish day school, Judeo-Christian tradition, Pew Research Center  
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5863 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Dec 2013 at 12:26 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-08 01:22:41 AM  

meat0918: Any decent private school has standards - and a waiting list - and can pick the best of their applicants.

Which is part of the reason it is ridiculous to compare private and public school achievement.


That's a fair point.

Public schools have to accept everyone, even the dumb and the delinquent.  I only recall one student being expelled and that was because he was busted for pot.  Yeah, if public schools expelled everyone who got busted with pot, there'd hardly be any students left - and they'd also end up kicking out some good students along with the bad.

Most of the "problem kids" were allowed to finish out the school year and just told they couldn't come back the next.  Like rkiller said upthread, poor academic performers just weren't allowed to re-enroll.
 
v15
2013-12-08 01:24:22 AM  
"O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the ccounsels of God."

The more I go through life the more this makes sense to me because I only find temporary happiness in everything else.
 
2013-12-08 01:28:17 AM  
Ctrl +F for triple. Word not found. Nice one, submitter.

But I will tell a CSB. When I was young I went to a catholic high school even though I wasnt catholic because the public alternative was so run down and old (literally the oldest high school in the region), and also because almost all of the assholes I knew from elementary school was going to the public one. Best decision I made. The school was as nice as some college campuses and the teachers were competent. The students drank, smoked, partied, and farked just like any other teens, so they werent even very catholic. Hell, even the Muslims and Hindus I knew went to that school.
 
2013-12-08 01:30:27 AM  

FizixJunkee: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.


It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.
 
2013-12-08 01:31:00 AM  

gfid: Public schools have to accept everyone, even the dumb and the delinquent. I only recall one student being expelled and that was because he was busted for pot. Yeah, if public schools expelled everyone who got busted with pot, there'd hardly be any students left - and they'd also end up kicking out some good students along with the bad.


The bigger drag on the stats for public schools are the special needs kids, not just the dumb and unruly.  And my school district had a special "academy" for the kids too unruly for regular schools.  Though I guess a number of schools districts are too small to be able to do that.
 
2013-12-08 01:34:18 AM  

ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


What?

I thought public school was basically free so how can a religious school be 1/4 the cost?

Or are you talking about day care?

I can actually remember a few things from pre-school.  We learned the alphabet and how to count and even a few words in Spanish.  It couldn't hurt to learn a few Bible stories (although we didn't) just because Christianity is such a huge part of our culture (in the US at least).  Hell, it wouldn't hurt to learn some things about Islam either just because it's such a huge part of world culture.
 
2013-12-08 01:35:33 AM  

12349876: gfid: Public schools have to accept everyone, even the dumb and the delinquent. I only recall one student being expelled and that was because he was busted for pot. Yeah, if public schools expelled everyone who got busted with pot, there'd hardly be any students left - and they'd also end up kicking out some good students along with the bad.

The bigger drag on the stats for public schools are the special needs kids, not just the dumb and unruly.  And my school district had a special "academy" for the kids too unruly for regular schools.  Though I guess a number of schools districts are too small to be able to do that.


My school district had that also. The high school had a special program for them. We called them the 4th Floor because they were kept on the 4th floor of the school.
 
2013-12-08 01:37:16 AM  

Fallout Boy: Ctrl +F for triple. Word not found. Nice one, submitter.

But I will tell a CSB. When I was young I went to a catholic high school even though I wasnt catholic because the public alternative was so run down and old (literally the oldest high school in the region), and also because almost all of the assholes I knew from elementary school was going to the public one. Best decision I made. The school was as nice as some college campuses and the teachers were competent. The students drank, smoked, partied, and farked just like any other teens, so they werent even very catholic. Hell, even the Muslims and Hindus I knew went to that school.


And just to clear things up, the school was secular and taught the same curriculum as the public schools. The only difference was that we had uniforms, Mass at the cafeteria, and some bogus religion course nobody took seriously (no, it wasnt bible study) that was mandatory during freshman year. Granted, this is in Canada, but there are a lot of stereotypes regarding catholic schools.
 
2013-12-08 01:41:35 AM  
Not all religious schools are the same, not even remotely. I knew kids who went to non-denominational 'Christian academies' who could barely write a complete sentence when they hit the public schools in junior high.

That being said, I went to a tiny Catholic school and we were doing algebra in sixth grade. My senior English class on high school was a recap of what I did in grade school. Now, admittedly, I went to a lousy public school, but given a choice I would put my kids in Catholic school over anything but the very best public school districts.
 
2013-12-08 01:48:33 AM  

BojanglesPaladin: Not all religious schools are the same, not even remotely. I knew kids who went to non-denominational 'Christian academies' who could barely write a complete sentence when they hit the public schools in junior high.


Jesus wept.
 
2013-12-08 01:50:17 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: A school is only as good as the parents of the students who go there. Thanks to compulsory education, public schools are flooded with accidental children who have absentee parents. There isn't anything special about a private school except they typically self-select for interested, present parents who take an involvement in their child's education.


This.

/getting a kick
 
2013-12-08 01:53:12 AM  

FizixJunkee: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

It is only preschool; but it is 1/4th the cost, and while I understand the "You get what you pay for" arguments...the fact is, they do an adequate job at that level.  I am fine with a few Jesus coloring projects if it means my kids learn numbers and the alphabet without having to pay through the nose for it.


Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.


Was it straight up someone teaching this stuff to the kid, or was it info that could have popped up during any normal activity at a religious place?  You would have to consider the idea that some mention of Bible-ish stuff might occur in front of your kid, no matter how significant, no?
 
2013-12-08 01:54:07 AM  

HammerHeadSnark: That's about as nonsensical as anything I've ever heard. A "C average student" is an average student. Average. A mostly equal number of students are above and below the C students. If you remove all the current average and below students then the next year those students who were As and Bs now will divide into five groups ranging from A to E . . . and another sub-group of Cs come into being . . . and they get tossed out. Soon, there can be only one student.


Not every school grades on a curve.  Mine (a Catholic school that also kicked out students who failed to maintain a B average) simply had an absolute grading scale - 90% and up was an A, 80% and up a B, etc.  They kept the tests fairly hard and they did get rid of a significant number of students, but they also only admitted students that had a record of good grades, so we certainly didn't lose half - probably closer to 15% over four years.
 
2013-12-08 01:57:37 AM  

gfid: ChewbaccaJones: I am one of them.

 Hell, it wouldn't hurt to learn some things about Islam either just because it's such a huge part of world culture.


www.elephantjournal.com

houraney.com

America, Fark Yeaaaaaahhhh!
 
2013-12-08 01:58:59 AM  

fred_chan: FTFA: A recent study by the Pew Research Center ...

As a Jew, I am so farking tired of hearing about this goddamn study.


No shiat!

I do occasional freelance work at a major Jewish organization running video conferences for them. Had a bunch of work in the month after the study came out. Holy crap are they running scared! Or not, since this means all their bullshiat educational programs are even more relevant and all sorts of money will get pumped their way ensuring salaries and jobs don't go anywhere. And they get to brainstorm all sorts of new "initiatives" to save the Jews. Bleh... I'm glad I'm not working there full time anymore.

Anyways, a buddy of mine made fun of all the fear mongering and pearl clutching. I helped him with a few of the jokes.
http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/new-poll-us-jewry-going-to-hell-in-a- ha ndbasket/
(Warning: May not be funny if you aren't Jewish)
 
2013-12-08 02:05:38 AM  
Alright they keep deleting my posts -- Yeah, I know, freedom of speech is only guaranteed by the government.
 
2013-12-08 02:06:05 AM  
I'm an agnostic, but I sent my son to parochial school K-8.  Why?  Because when he started, he was living with his mom in the 2nd worst school district in the state of Michigan.  When I asked for an received custody when he was 9, I kept him in a parochial school system through 8th grade.  Since I live in one of the top 10 public school districts in the state, he went to public high school.

I gave serious thought to sending him to a parochial high school...but my alma mater's tuition was nearly $10k a year...which I felt was better left for college because I didn't believe the educational differences between the public high school and the parochial high school were dramatic enough (based on standardized test scores, college admissions, etc) to warrant spending that kind of money.

Not that it mattered...my son joined the Navy and I'm off the hook for college.
 
2013-12-08 02:07:56 AM  

Sum Dum Gai: Not every school grades on a curve.


My school graded on a knuckleball.
 
2013-12-08 02:11:27 AM  

Fallout Boy: Ctrl +F for triple. Word not found. Nice one, submitter.


You searched for the wrong word.

we trebled the number of Jewish day schools in the 22 years that I was chief rabbi
 
2013-12-08 02:12:19 AM  

Bucky Katt: Too bad.  There's not much actual evidence that private schools are in fact better than public ones.


You really believe that I"m sure. That is just amazing.
 
2013-12-08 02:13:53 AM  
Could it be that even secular parents are bright enough to realize that in general (exceptions happen either way) private religious schools provide better education than public schools.

Why is that...

a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???

While a case could be made that all 3 are valid reasons why...IMO "c)" is the biggest factor.

Any and every systems (welfare, social security, education, etc) gets farked when the government gets involved....the longer the involvement, the more farked up said system gets. That said, I am sure heath care is going to improve for everyone now that the government is involved.
___________________________________________________________

Fact is that any student who wants to learn will learn regardless of the system being public / private, regardless of the system being good or bad. An education requires time, it requires energy, and it requires effort...it does not require a school, it doesn't even require a teacher.
 
2013-12-08 02:17:40 AM  

fusillade762: Fallout Boy: Ctrl +F for triple. Word not found. Nice one, submitter.

You searched for the wrong word.

we trebled the number of Jewish day schools in the 22 years that I was chief rabbi


He set the treble up to 11.
 
2013-12-08 02:23:11 AM  
I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and it was pretty good. Better education than the local publics, no creationist nonsense. The rather surprising part was we got pretty comprehensive sex education as well, with reasonably accurate information about the various forms of birth control and their failure rates. It was overlaid with the whole "it's a sin, abstain" schtick, but no (or very little) lying about anything.
 
2013-12-08 02:26:13 AM  

wraith95: I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and it was pretty good. Better education than the local publics, no creationist nonsense. The rather surprising part was we got pretty comprehensive sex education as well, with reasonably accurate information about the various forms of birth control and their failure rates. It was overlaid with the whole "it's a sin, abstain" schtick, but no (or very little) lying about anything.


I had a very similar experience. I had 12 years of Catholic school both in Ireland and the US and I found it quite good and almost identical to your experience. Now I have a good job and a PhD.
 
2013-12-08 02:27:17 AM  

Occam's Disposable Razor: It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.


I can understand a person of faith who actually believes the misinformation they passed to their child....but to openly lie to them is just stupid. If you think that death is the end, and that when you die all that is left is for you corpse to rot in the ground, then tell you child that or to put it another way...

...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.
 
2013-12-08 02:27:31 AM  

Divinegrace: Could it be that even secular parents are bright enough to realize that in general (exceptions happen either way) private religious schools provide better education than public schools.

Why is that...

a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???

While a case could be made that all 3 are valid reasons why...IMO "c)" is the biggest factor.

Any and every systems (welfare, social security, education, etc) gets farked when the government gets involved....the longer the involvement, the more farked up said system gets. That said, I am sure heath care is going to improve for everyone now that the government is involved.
___________________________________________________________

Fact is that any student who wants to learn will learn regardless of the system being public / private, regardless of the system being good or bad. An education requires time, it requires energy, and it requires effort...it does not require a school, it doesn't even require a teacher.


When private schools are better
(a) yes, teachers - the package and working conditions are generally better
(b) yes, parents - typically more involved in the education of their kids
(c ) no, govt can still fark with them, but not being a direct part of a larger bureaucracy helps
(d) mo' money
(e) better flexibility
(f) selectivity, sometimes


/there's a different list for when they are worse
 
2013-12-08 02:27:31 AM  

wraith95: I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and it was pretty good. Better education than the local publics, no creationist nonsense. The rather surprising part was we got pretty comprehensive sex education as well,


I'm sure the priests were more than helpful.  ;>p
 
2013-12-08 02:28:00 AM  

Divinegrace: a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???


No, as someone who went to religious schools, the answer is:

d) Private religious schools can be very picky and choosy about which kids they admit and allow to remain in school.

When you only admit the top 1/3rd of your applicants and then expel anyone who has behavioral or academic problems, of course the people you're left with by the end are significantly above the overall population average.

The biggest factor to my school's academic success was picking students who would have been successful anyway.  For those students, it offered a good academic environment, but the same model certainly would have failed if they'd been forced to take the students they don't want to try to teach.
 
2013-12-08 02:31:16 AM  
Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!
 
2013-12-08 02:31:26 AM  

Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.


In other words, after the Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy jig is up, you're screwed.
 
2013-12-08 02:32:19 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: wraith95: I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and it was pretty good. Better education than the local publics, no creationist nonsense. The rather surprising part was we got pretty comprehensive sex education as well,

I'm sure the priests were more than helpful.  ;>p


They like to keep a hand in it.
 
2013-12-08 02:32:43 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Divinegrace: Could it be that even secular parents are bright enough to realize that in general (exceptions happen either way) private religious schools provide better education than public schools.

Why is that...

a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???

While a case could be made that all 3 are valid reasons why...IMO "c)" is the biggest factor.

Any and every systems (welfare, social security, education, etc) gets farked when the government gets involved....the longer the involvement, the more farked up said system gets. That said, I am sure heath care is going to improve for everyone now that the government is involved.
___________________________________________________________

Fact is that any student who wants to learn will learn regardless of the system being public / private, regardless of the system being good or bad. An education requires time, it requires energy, and it requires effort...it does not require a school, it doesn't even require a teacher.

When private schools are better
(a) yes, teachers -  the package and working conditions are generally better
(b) yes, parents - typically more involved in the education of their kids
(c ) no, govt can still fark with them, but not being a direct part of a larger bureaucracy helps
(d) mo' money
(e) better flexibility
(f) selectivity, sometimes

/there's a different list for when they are worse


FTFY

From teachers I know, the only advantages of private over public are part of a and defiantly b. All the rest public school teachers have it better.
 
2013-12-08 02:32:59 AM  

FizixJunkee: Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.


So is raised another child that will tell everyone they know, and anyone that will listen that religion is bad, when the fact is they have no clue what religion is, or why it is important.
 
2013-12-08 02:33:00 AM  

Frederick: Some Coke Drinking Guy: Although, I suspect a lot of this has less to do with public schools being truly bad, then them being perceived that way, because of how the student body appears.

Perception is often times more persuasive than reality.  Education is always what the student makes of it.  I think the choice is one of a false sense of security for the parents.


In early education it is more about what the parents make of contribute to it.
 
2013-12-08 02:33:02 AM  

deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!


We used to walk by and make the publics jealous!
 
2013-12-08 02:33:20 AM  

Divinegrace: Occam's Disposable Razor: It's not so dangerous. Catholic school is responsible for more atheists than you can imagine. My 4 year old told me the other day that when we die, "God fixes everything up so we can always be happy." Wtf do I tell him? "Nah, grandma's corpse is rotting, and her existence is over, as will all of ours be soon."
He can have the comfortable lie for now. Smart boy, he'll see through it soon enough. Or he won't, but it won't be because of what some teacher said.

I can understand a person of faith who actually believes the misinformation they passed to their child....but to openly lie to them is just stupid. If you think that death is the end, and that when you die all that is left is for you corpse to rot in the ground, then tell you child that or to put it another way...

...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.



I'm happy for my kids to understand that there is such a thing as a white lie to spare the feelings of other people in appropriate circumstances.

/and there's a difference between teaching something and tolerating it
 
2013-12-08 02:33:38 AM  

deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!


Isn't that the day when all the Catholics come back to work from lunch looking like someone put a cigarette out on their forehead?
 
2013-12-08 02:33:55 AM  

Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.


Says the non-parent.
 
2013-12-08 02:34:20 AM  

Divinegrace: FizixJunkee: Not us.  We had our daughter in an after-school program hosted at a nearby church for all of two weeks.  We were assured that there wouldn't be any Christianity or Bible lessons taught to the after-school kids; just straightforward secular academics, homework help, etc..  However, in that short amount of time, our daughter had learned [something] about The Devil, Jesus, and God (topics we've never once discussed at home).

We were pissed.

We forfeited 1.5 months of tuition to get her out of there after those two weeks, and we'll never send her back.

No amount of $avings is worth that bullshiat.  I'd much rather pay top dollar for a real secular education.

So is raised another child that will tell everyone they know, and anyone that will listen that religion is bad, when the fact is they have no clue what religion is, or why it is important.


Raised by someone who thought an afterschool program at a Church would be areligious.
 
2013-12-08 02:34:56 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!

Isn't that the day when all the Catholics come back to work from lunch looking like someone put a cigarette out on their forehead?


Not just Catholics.
 
2013-12-08 02:36:29 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: wraith95: I went to Catholic school for 12 years, and it was pretty good. Better education than the local publics, no creationist nonsense. The rather surprising part was we got pretty comprehensive sex education as well,

I'm sure the priests were more than helpful.  ;>p


Heh, no priests oddly enough. There was a chaplain, but he wasn't even there much. To the best of my knowledge, none of the priests I knew growing up ever had that particular problem. There were some assholes, but most were pretty cool. Although the high school did have a priest as principal long before I went there that was banging the secretary.
 
2013-12-08 02:39:32 AM  

feckingmorons: Danger Avoid Death: deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!

Isn't that the day when all the Catholics come back to work from lunch looking like someone put a cigarette out on their forehead?

Not just Catholics.


Lemme guess ... Ashkenazi?
 
2013-12-08 02:42:07 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

In other words, after the Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy jig is up, you're screwed.


Now you know the reason I never lied to my son about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or any of the other 'socially acceptable' lies parents tell their children.

I was told by my sons mother I was 'cruel bastard', I told here that parents that knowingly lie to their children are the cruel bastards.

To be fair, I am a bastard in every sense of the word, including the literal one...but cruel to my son I am not.
 
2013-12-08 02:42:22 AM  

Danger Avoid Death: feckingmorons: Danger Avoid Death: deanayer: Suck it atheists !! Ash Wednesday motherfarker BAM !!!

Isn't that the day when all the Catholics come back to work from lunch looking like someone put a cigarette out on their forehead?

Not just Catholics.

Lemme guess ... Ashkenazi?


There is a guy who comes to work with the ashes on his forehead every year. Isn't that the opposite of the whole 'pray quietly' thing?
 
2013-12-08 02:42:33 AM  
Big deal...my parents allowed me to go to the local Catholic school when I was a kid, and we are Jewish. Why? I wanted to go to a better school. This was a long time ago.

//was not forced to take religious classes
 
2013-12-08 02:44:29 AM  

jst3p: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Says the non-parent.


What do you mean by non-parent?
 
2013-12-08 02:44:39 AM  

Divinegrace: Danger Avoid Death: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

In other words, after the Santa Claus, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy jig is up, you're screwed.

Now you know the reason I never lied to my son about Santa, the Easter Bunny, or any of the other 'socially acceptable' lies parents tell their children.

I was told by my sons mother I was 'cruel bastard', I told here that parents that knowingly lie to their children are the cruel bastards.

To be fair, I am a bastard in every sense of the word, including the literal one...but cruel to my son I am not.


All people lie. If you claim you are different you are a liar.

Kids are not equipped to hear the truth about a great many things. I dont think you are cruel, you are just lying on the internet.
 
2013-12-08 02:47:22 AM  

ongbok: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Divinegrace: Could it be that even secular parents are bright enough to realize that in general (exceptions happen either way) private religious schools provide better education than public schools.

Why is that...

a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???

While a case could be made that all 3 are valid reasons why...IMO "c)" is the biggest factor.

Any and every systems (welfare, social security, education, etc) gets farked when the government gets involved....the longer the involvement, the more farked up said system gets. That said, I am sure heath care is going to improve for everyone now that the government is involved.
___________________________________________________________

Fact is that any student who wants to learn will learn regardless of the system being public / private, regardless of the system being good or bad. An education requires time, it requires energy, and it requires effort...it does not require a school, it doesn't even require a teacher.

When private schools are better
(a) yes, teachers -  the package and working conditions are generally better
(b) yes, parents - typically more involved in the education of their kids
(c ) no, govt can still fark with them, but not being a direct part of a larger bureaucracy helps
(d) mo' money
(e) better flexibility
(f) selectivity, sometimes

/there's a different list for when they are worse

FTFY

From teachers I know, the only advantages of private over public are part of a and defiantly b. All the rest public school teachers have it better.



You are right that on average private school teachers are paid less (though I have never seen the stats controlled by degree etc, and sometimes the pay is better at a private school), so thanks for FTFM.

Parts (c ) through (f) have little to do with which *teachers* have it better, so I'm not sure how your anecdotes apply to those.

The whole comparison is a bit silly because of the vast variation, of course. It all depends on the individual schools.
 
2013-12-08 03:08:33 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: ongbok: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Divinegrace: Could it be that even secular parents are bright enough to realize that in general (exceptions happen either way) private religious schools provide better education than public schools.

Why is that...

a) Do private religious schools have better teachers? maybe but i dout it
b) Are parents of private religious school children better than parents of public school children? maybe but again I doubt it.
c) Is it because government doesn't and can't fark up private religious schools???

While a case could be made that all 3 are valid reasons why...IMO "c)" is the biggest factor.

Any and every systems (welfare, social security, education, etc) gets farked when the government gets involved....the longer the involvement, the more farked up said system gets. That said, I am sure heath care is going to improve for everyone now that the government is involved.
___________________________________________________________

Fact is that any student who wants to learn will learn regardless of the system being public / private, regardless of the system being good or bad. An education requires time, it requires energy, and it requires effort...it does not require a school, it doesn't even require a teacher.

When private schools are better
(a) yes, teachers -  the package and working conditions are generally better
(b) yes, parents - typically more involved in the education of their kids
(c ) no, govt can still fark with them, but not being a direct part of a larger bureaucracy helps
(d) mo' money
(e) better flexibility
(f) selectivity, sometimes

/there's a different list for when they are worse

FTFY

From teachers I know, the only advantages of private over public are part of a and defiantly b. All the rest public school teachers have it better.


You are right that on average private school teachers are paid less (though I have never seen the stats controlled by degree etc, and sometimes the pay is better at a private school), so than ...


Yep, on the average private school teachers are paid less, but they can move up to the schools that pay more with experience, and like I said before, can get to about what public school teachers make and their benefits with experience. Doesn't bode well if you are sending your kids to one of the lower tier schools as the teachers are constantly rotating out.

But the other parts do have a lot to do with teachers have it better. In public schools the teachers do have a set curriculum, as they should, but they do have some flexibility on how they teach it. In most private schools they also have that same set curriculum as the public schools, but the teachers are give a cookie cuter framework to teach it in, and a lot of time that framework depends on the schools mission statement.
 
2013-12-08 03:08:56 AM  

Divinegrace: jst3p: Divinegrace: ...knowingly lie to you kids if you want, but when they call you a lair, and stop listening to what you tell them you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Says the non-parent.

What do you mean by non-parent?


What do you mean by "what do you mean"?
 
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