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(Yahoo)   Remember the NM officer who fired on a minivan full of kids? Well, his paid vacation just got longer. And unpaid   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 91
    More: Followup, New Mexico, New Mexico officer, tourist towns, minivans  
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8373 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Dec 2013 at 5:46 PM (37 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-07 04:54:26 PM
Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.
 
2013-12-07 05:05:13 PM

Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.


It was only shiatty judgement because of shiatty aim
 
2013-12-07 05:05:39 PM
Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.
 
2013-12-07 05:14:46 PM

namatad: Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.


She pulled away twice, so I imagine her case would be far from a slam dunk.
 
2013-12-07 05:21:01 PM

Lsherm: namatad: Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.

She pulled away twice, so I imagine her case would be far from a slam dunk.


I think the point is that even if someone robbed a store and jumped in a van load of kids, and cop knew children were in the van. Opening fire on children is probably not the best move.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2013-12-07 05:38:45 PM
Montoya has 30 days to appeal his firing to the Public Safety Advisory Commission, which is made up of civilians appointed by the governor.

Here firing can be appealed to an arbitrator, who will reinstate a fired officer with back pay, or sometimes civil service for a coin flip over the reinstate/terminate question.
 
2013-12-07 05:51:23 PM

Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.


Fail a piss test for pot and they'll boot you in a hot second.
 
2013-12-07 05:52:47 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.

It was only shiatty judgement because of shiatty aim


What is it with most of the cops in stories like this?  They couldn't hit a barn with an elephant.
 
2013-12-07 05:54:01 PM

optikeye: Lsherm: namatad: Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.

She pulled away twice, so I imagine her case would be far from a slam dunk.

I think the point is that even if someone robbed a store and jumped in a van load of kids, and cop knew children were in the van. Opening fire on children is probably not the best move.


I'm sure she'll claim she was afraid of him so she pulled away. Firing at a van full of kids doesn't do much to argue for his character. She'll sue and win because think of the children.
 
2013-12-07 05:55:23 PM
When does he go to trial for assault with a deadly weapon, endangering minors, and attempted murder? Or, does he retain his police issue gold pressed latinum get out of jail free card?
 
2013-12-07 05:55:25 PM
Pretty sure the article states he was aiming for the rear left tire. If no bullet holes were found on the back of that van, then that's either a true statement, or he can't shoot for shiat.

He also bought the whole family McDonalds during the booking process. Which could be viewed as trying to kill them TWICE.
 
2013-12-07 05:55:49 PM

Peter von Nostrand: Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.

It was only shiatty judgement because of shiatty aim


No. It would be even worse judgement if you thought that would be acceptable too.
 
2013-12-07 05:56:24 PM

optikeye: Opening fire on children is probably not the best move.


Opening fire on any vehicle that is driving away from you isn't exactly the best move.  All you need is for the round to ricochet and hit somebody else. Besides, fleeing vehicles can't outrun radios.  Just toss down a spike strip or axle net down the road.  Also, fleeing from police should not be a capital crime.

Save your ammunition for when the driver dumps it in reverse and starts coming towards you.
 
2013-12-07 05:56:43 PM

JoieD'Zen: optikeye: Lsherm: namatad: Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.

She pulled away twice, so I imagine her case would be far from a slam dunk.

I think the point is that even if someone robbed a store and jumped in a van load of kids, and cop knew children were in the van. Opening fire on children is probably not the best move.

I'm sure she'll claim she was afraid of him so she pulled away. Firing at a van full of kids doesn't do much to argue for his character. She'll sue and win because think of the children.


Doubtful. She'll sue; and the countersuit for HER reckless endangerment will be a wash. Remember, the whole thing started because she was speeding with that same van full of those same kids--and the argument works just as well. The city attorney will say, "Well, Ms. Jones, why were you even going 71 miles per hour in a 55 zone with your precious children in the first place?" and that will just about be that.
 
2013-12-07 05:57:01 PM
Remember the Colorado cop? 135 mph DUI & separate McDonalds gun pulling rage incident.. Reinstated by arbitrator, I believe.

I'd be pleasantly surprised if this held up, as the video was awful to watch. Those people were terrified, the armed cops, not so much.
 
2013-12-07 05:57:25 PM

JoieD'Zen: I'm sure she'll claim she was afraid of him so she pulled away. Firing at a van full of kids doesn't do much to argue for his character. She'll sue and win because think of the children.


I'm not disagreeing with you (I think it's likely she'd win), but it's ironic to be able the police put your children in danger during your attempt to flee from the cops in a vehicle with the children multiple times.
 
2013-12-07 05:57:31 PM

Odoriferous Queef: Peter von Nostrand: Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.

It was only shiatty judgement because of shiatty aim

What is it with most of the cops in stories like this?  They couldn't hit a barn with an elephant.


You know how when you're hanging in your driveway practicing free throws, you can nail like 4 out of 5 on a good day, But the instant the spastic kid down the street starts guarding you, you're throwing up bricks left and right and you'd be lucky to get even a fraction of your shots?  Same thing, 'cept with bullets.
 
2013-12-07 06:00:20 PM

phrawgh: When does he go to trial for assault with a deadly weapon, endangering minors, and attempted murder? Or, does he retain his police issue gold pressed latinum get out of jail free card?


static2.wikia.nocookie.net

Are you the dork for using that reference, or am I for getting it?
 
2013-12-07 06:01:03 PM
Thing is here, anyone else who opened fire on a vehicle full of kids would almost certainly be investigated for reckless endangerment, manslaughter, or attempted murder.  If it's a cop, the absolute worst that can happen is they get fired.
 
2013-12-07 06:01:08 PM
im going to play devils advocate here....

she sounds like a woman who needed to be arrested.

it sounds like he was shooting at the tire... not really putting kids in harms danger...

/  end devils advocate.

I would say that there are worse out there who haven't been fired.
 
2013-12-07 06:01:46 PM
Even if she sued and won, the fact that no one got injured would limit the damages to basically nothing. Other than damage to her car (whatever), it's not like she's going to get millions for psychological damage for getting shot at while trying to flee from police officers during a traffic stop.
 
2013-12-07 06:04:34 PM
Either he's going to be a paid contributor on Fox News soon or not.

www.criminaldefensenj.com
 
2013-12-07 06:06:32 PM
Enjoy being one of the little people, pal.
 
2013-12-07 06:06:41 PM

Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.


He was probably fired for buying the family McDonalds. Conflict of interest.
 
2013-12-07 06:06:45 PM

namatad: Interesting , does this open up the department to reckless endangerment charges/lawsuit ?
It would be awesome if she sued and won tons of money.


The main problem with all 'jackpot' lawsuits is you need some sort of 'damage' for which to seek remedy. Might be something such as, emotional distress, which might be ginned up. Not sure how much she could win, but the kids in the car could sue for sure.  Insurance company and the city probably want this to just go away, evidence; they fired Officer Itcheifenger, so yeah they'll settle.
 
2013-12-07 06:08:36 PM
He should be fired--a whole van full of people and he didn't hit ANY of them
 
2013-12-07 06:13:01 PM

Vexed Thespian: it sounds like he was shooting at the tire... not really putting kids in harms danger...



Here, put this apple on your head.
 
2013-12-07 06:14:29 PM
 
2013-12-07 06:15:02 PM
Judging from the comments so far, let me see if I have things straight...

- firing at the rear tire of a vehicle beginning to flee that contains children = BAD
- tossing out stop sticks in front of a vehicle traveling at high rates of speed that contains children = OK

That about sum things up?
 
2013-12-07 06:15:24 PM
So...this is what a main page greenlight looks like.

/my first
//likes cops
///this bastard's one of the many who should stay fired
 
2013-12-07 06:15:53 PM
About damn time something like this happened, I'm getting sick of them being cleared of charges on shiat like this.
 
2013-12-07 06:16:04 PM

justinsmith354: Pretty sure the article states he was aiming for the rear left tire. If no bullet holes were found on the back of that van, then that's either a true statement, or he can't shoot for shiat.


Anyone who has the minimal amount of firearm experience knows you don't "aim for the tires" or "shoot the gun out of his hand".  Pistols are notoriously inaccurate, even if you are in a controlled environment.
 
2013-12-07 06:16:31 PM
I agree with the need to fire him. Not just because of the children, although that is part of it. Mainly because the police should not be shooting at anyone that is simply running away. Unless they have a reasonable suspicion that the running person may cause severe injury or death to another, in which case I support using deadly force. Otherwise, do your farking job and chase the bad guys down and arrest them. Running away, AKA challenging the officers authority, is not just cause for use of deadly force.
 
2013-12-07 06:17:10 PM
He also bought the whole family McDonalds during the booking process. Which could be viewed as trying to kill them TWICE.

I didn't think I'd get a chuckle from anything in this thread.
 
2013-12-07 06:17:45 PM

Vexed Thespian: it sounds like he was shooting at the tire... not really putting kids in harms danger...


Take a look at this chart http://www.fark.com/comments/8050014/88040017#c88040017  then reconsider your statement.
 
2013-12-07 06:23:24 PM

Clutch2013: So...this is what a main page greenlight looks like.

/my first
//likes cops
///this bastard's one of the many who should stay fired


Cop threads are easy greens.
 
2013-12-07 06:25:47 PM
This is New Mexico, land of the free law enforcement colonoscopy. There was nowhere for her to run. Taos was right up the road, and, literally, there is nowhere to go before that. There was no danger of a "suspect" getting away. The cop used incredibly bad judgment, and should be fired because he can't be trusted to make good decisions with the lives of those he is sworn to protect. Of course she was afraid. Another cop had already bashed out the back window with his club. I am a middle aged white male, and I would have been afraid, and if I had my kids in the car, I would have driven to Taos where there would be more witnesses.
 
2013-12-07 06:26:42 PM
strong>brandent: Clutch2013: So...this is what a main page greenlight looks like.

/my first
//likes cops
///this bastard's one of the many who should stay fired

Cop threads are easy greens.


So are teacher student sex and anything you can find on Opposing Views these days.
 
2013-12-07 06:27:50 PM
Meanwhile the NM cops and doctors who colluded to give people non-consensual colonoscopies are still on the job and doing the lord's work...
 
2013-12-07 06:32:29 PM
My wife and I disagree on this, but i feel if she took control of the van, and is usuing it effectively as a weapon, then regardless of the kids, the cop shoulda aimed to take her out. His main fault was letting her get away,and after snuffing her, give the punk-ass teen a cap  to show who is boss. Don't argue with a cop when you know you were wrong.
Firing the cop was just a casualty to save face. I hope he sues. And wins.
Sure, I'm against abuse of cops power as much as the next guy, but one of the cops was being pretty lenient by hearing her biatch, before it escalated.
 
2013-12-07 06:33:00 PM
It's also good to know that, in New Mexico, you can be shot for speeding (well, fleeing a speeding ticket.)

What asshole thought that was a good idea?
 
2013-12-07 06:36:13 PM

JoieD'Zen: I'm sure she'll claim she was afraid of him so she pulled away.


I think he shot at them AFTER she had already pulled away twice.
 
2013-12-07 06:39:07 PM

DigitalCoffee: Judging from the comments so far, let me see if I have things straight...

- firing at the rear tire of a vehicle beginning to flee that contains children = BAD
- tossing out stop sticks in front of a vehicle traveling at high rates of speed that contains children = OK

That about sum things up?


yes
 
2013-12-07 06:39:54 PM

FormlessOne: It's also good to know that, in New Mexico, you can be shot for speeding (well, fleeing a speeding ticket.)

What asshole thought that was a good idea?


The guy who got fired apparently.
 
2013-12-07 06:40:49 PM
Hey, I used lethal force against your family but how about a nice happy meal? We cool?

/it's not like he could write down the license plate - that sweet fine money almost got away and a brothers' got quotas!
//quotas are real - i have a recording from the LAPD when they failed to turn off a recorder i had running that caught them talking about how correctly share offenses between each other to share and be a "good cop
///assholes
 
2013-12-07 06:49:39 PM
I saw the video, and she clearly deserved to be arrested for driving away from what was then a normal mundane traffic stop.  She clearly instigated the situation and the original officer was right in trying to arrest her and then use escalating force to complete the arrest once she begin fighting him...    The only place things went off the rails was when officer retard comes onto the scene and starts shooting.
 
2013-12-07 06:58:50 PM

kim jong-un: Peter von Nostrand: Lsherm: Good Lord, I didn't think cops could get fired.  This wasn't even one of those cases where it was clear-cut brutality, just shiatty judgement.

It was only shiatty judgement because of shiatty aim

No. It would be even worse judgement if you thought that would be acceptable too.


I don't know what this means. It was only bad judgement because they missed. Had they not missed it would be bad judgement and most likely murder
 
2013-12-07 07:03:08 PM

homelessdude: From 2006, but still applicable. (pops)
[i.imgur.com image 650x330]


Interesting. What I gathered from that, is it's best to stay 75+ feet from all police.
 
2013-12-07 07:04:29 PM
NM cops must have a lousy union
 
2013-12-07 07:07:57 PM
I don't know much but I would say teenagers cease to be "kids" when they attack a police officer.
 
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