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(NBC News)   The Obama administration allows the green energy industry to cover up their wholesale slaughter of bald eagles, and will grant them 30 year exemptions from federal regulations to kill even more. SILENT GREENS... KILL EAGLES   (nbcnews.com) divider line 161
    More: Sad, Obama, green energy, Obama administration, energy industry, idea, American Bird Conservancy, American Wind Energy Association, massacres  
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1374 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Dec 2013 at 8:17 PM (42 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-07 07:02:05 PM
FTA:  The new rule is designed to address environmental consequences that stand in the way of the nation's wind energy rush: the dozens of bald and golden eagles being killed each year by the giant, spinning blades of wind turbines.

Picture Caption: In this April 18, 2013, photo, a golden eagle is seen flying over a wind turbine on Duke energy's top of the world windfarm in Converse County Wyo. The company has reported 10 golden eagle deaths since it started operation in 2009.

Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years? 

How about this:

1. How many have been killed total?
2. By how many wind turbines? 

This could be a real issue, or it could be somebody trying to stir up false outrage. Unfortunately, the reporting is so shiatty here, there's simply no way to say. Which makes me thing someone is trying to stir something up.
 
2013-12-07 07:06:44 PM
You'd think by now, someone would've invented something they could put on the blades to keep birds from flying through them or whatever.
 
2013-12-07 07:31:35 PM

whistleridge: FTA:  The new rule is designed to address environmental consequences that stand in the way of the nation's wind energy rush: the dozens of bald and golden eagles being killed each year by the giant, spinning blades of wind turbines.

Picture Caption: In this April 18, 2013, photo, a golden eagle is seen flying over a wind turbine on Duke energy's top of the world windfarm in Converse County Wyo. The company has reported 10 golden eagle deaths since it started operation in 2009.

Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years? 

How about this:

1. How many have been killed total?
2. By how many wind turbines? 

This could be a real issue, or it could be somebody trying to stir up false outrage. Unfortunately, the reporting is so shiatty here, there's simply no way to say. Which makes me thing someone is trying to stir something up.


I think you know the answer
 
2013-12-07 07:33:31 PM
So your saying the energy industry gets special privileges? Who knew?
 
2013-12-07 07:36:38 PM
In comparison, how many Bald Eagles die from effects of global warming and acid rain? If x is less than y, then wind farms could be a net positive for the eagle community.
 
2013-12-07 07:39:25 PM

whistleridge: 1. How many have been killed total?
2. By how many wind turbines?


I have no idea about eagles, but the one paper I found said I estimated 888,000 bat and 573,000 bird fatalities/year (including 83,000 raptor fatalities) at 51,630 megawatt (MW) of installed wind-energy capacity in the United States in 2012.

But that's all birds, so while it may sound like a lot, you have to keep in mind that domestic cats kill tens to hundreds of millions each year.
 
2013-12-07 07:46:12 PM

nmrsnr: whistleridge: 1. How many have been killed total?
2. By how many wind turbines?

I have no idea about eagles, but the one paper I found said I estimated 888,000 bat and 573,000 bird fatalities/year (including 83,000 raptor fatalities) at 51,630 megawatt (MW) of installed wind-energy capacity in the United States in 2012.

But that's all birds, so while it may sound like a lot, you have to keep in mind that domestic cats kill tens to hundreds of millions each year.


I feel like these numbers just...aren't that bad. Given how many wind farms there are in the US vs how many cars or plate glass windows there are, sure many tens of times more birds are killed by the latter than the former. And those things don't help the environment.
 
2013-12-07 08:01:39 PM
Well that was a poorly written article.
 
2013-12-07 08:23:11 PM
I learned nothing from TFA except that OBAMA WANTS TO KILL BALD EAGLES!
/biased author is biased
 
2013-12-07 08:23:56 PM
Ben Franklin wanted the turkey to be the countries bird.  A noble creature. Not a scavenger like the eagle.
 
2013-12-07 08:26:34 PM
wholesale slaughter of bald eagles

mmhmmm
 
2013-12-07 08:28:50 PM
blog.garagepunknyc.com
 
2013-12-07 08:32:06 PM
We should be killing them with coal smog like we used to.
 
2013-12-07 08:32:13 PM

whistleridge: Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?


That one company has reported 10. So, spread out over several companies, then you get the dozens, I would assume. I don't believe it is the big conspiracy that you are insinuating.


----------------------
Personally,  I'd be interested to know if coal or oil contribute to the deaths of endangered species or bald eagles and how many each year. It is a nothing statistic if there isn't a comparison to other forms of energy generation.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that wind turbines kill bald eagles more than the other forms, but without that knowledge any possibly hysteria is silly.

That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?

ventilation.vostermans.com
 
2013-12-07 08:33:10 PM
Any bird dumb enough to fly into a slow-moving fan is too dumb to breed. We'll end up with smarter Eagles.
 
2013-12-07 08:37:26 PM
Is it because the eagle is a national symbol and Democrat-types hate America or is there some other explanation?  I've known Democrats before who aren't hostile towards eagles.
 
2013-12-07 08:37:36 PM
Since I own several thousand shares of wind energy stock across a couple of companies, (which, incidentally, is not looking like a good investment at present) I'm getting a kick out of this.

/from what I've read when a turbine goes up there are a number of bird strikes. As time goes on, the birds adapt to the new obstacle in their path.
 
2013-12-07 08:38:15 PM
If he had them arrested would they be...collared greens?
 
2013-12-07 08:39:07 PM

bulldg4life: That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?


a 300 meter wide fan guard? no sweat
 
2013-12-07 08:40:26 PM
Ironically, I just did a paper on wind turbines a few days ago and one of the big issues that comes up is this.

img.fark.net
Of course this is from a text book in 2009 so the numbers could be higher.

The number with birds getting killed by the turbines and the number that get killed derping into buildings and windows is very significant.

The bigger issue that one could make about wind turbines is the number of bats that get killed from them and since bats have a lower population and a much lower birth rate than birds, their deaths tend to affect their population significantly.
 
2013-12-07 08:41:48 PM

Jackson Herring: a 300 meter wide fan guard? no sweat


Aren't the blades ridiculously expensive?

Yes, there are countless physical issues...but I would've thought there'd be protection in place anyway.
 
2013-12-07 08:41:55 PM

bulldg4life: whistleridge: Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?

That one company has reported 10. So, spread out over several companies, then you get the dozens, I would assume. I don't believe it is the big conspiracy that you are insinuating.


----------------------
Personally,  I'd be interested to know if coal or oil contribute to the deaths of endangered species or bald eagles and how many each year. It is a nothing statistic if there isn't a comparison to other forms of energy generation.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that wind turbines kill bald eagles more than the other forms, but without that knowledge any possibly hysteria is silly.

That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?

[ventilation.vostermans.com image 500x500]


I'm guessing that the sheer size of the rotor would necessitate a guard so large that the entire structure would become too top-heavy.  Also, the guard would probably reduce the overall amount/velocity of air hitting the rotor blades, resulting in reduced energy production.
 
2013-12-07 08:42:00 PM
whistleridge * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-12-07 07:02:05 PM FTA: The new rule is designed to address environmental consequences that stand in the way of the nation's wind energy rush: the dozens of bald and golden eagles being killed each year by the giant, spinning blades of wind turbines. Picture Caption: In this April 18, 2013, photo, a golden eagle is seen flying over a wind turbine on Duke energy's top of the world windfarm in Converse County Wyo. The company has reported 10 golden eagle deaths since it started operation in 2009.

Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years? ===================================================

Um, moron, they're saying that ALL wind turbines kill 'dozens' each year. That particular company reported 10.

Though, to be fair, if 10 are being killed by just 1 company, a couple dozen seems awfully low for all of them.

/But a couple dozen eagles dying each year is not exactly slaughtering the population. And frankly, any creature stupid enough to not realize massive spinning blades will kill them deserve to die anyway.
 
2013-12-07 08:42:24 PM

bulldg4life: whistleridge: Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?

That one company has reported 10. So, spread out over several companies, then you get the dozens, I would assume. I don't believe it is the big conspiracy that you are insinuating.


----------------------
Personally,  I'd be interested to know if coal or oil contribute to the deaths of endangered species or bald eagles and how many each year. It is a nothing statistic if there isn't a comparison to other forms of energy generation.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that wind turbines kill bald eagles more than the other forms, but without that knowledge any possibly hysteria is silly.
That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?
[ventilation.vostermans.com image 500x500]


How would you shroud a fan with a radius of 75 meters? Pick a material that is light enough for the base to bear, strong enough not to be pushed into the blades by the wind, doesn't create a sail effect, and cheap enough to retrofit all turbine towers.
/You know, a typical small-scale engineering problem.
 
2013-12-07 08:42:37 PM
Oh come on, this is a call to ACTION.

If one of you derpers don't pony up with a photoshop of Obama stabbing an eagle it will be one of the bigger letdowns of my time on Fark.
 
2013-12-07 08:42:39 PM

Solid Muldoon: Any bird dumb enough to fly into a slow-moving fan is too dumb to breed. We'll end up with smarter Eagles.


Article in the paper today described them as being like texting drivers. They're so focused on the ground for prey that they don't bother to look where they're going.
 
2013-12-07 08:44:04 PM

bulldg4life: whistleridge: Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?

That one company has reported 10. So, spread out over several companies, then you get the dozens, I would assume. I don't believe it is the big conspiracy that you are insinuating.


----------------------
Personally,  I'd be interested to know if coal or oil contribute to the deaths of endangered species or bald eagles and how many each year. It is a nothing statistic if there isn't a comparison to other forms of energy generation.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that wind turbines kill bald eagles more than the other forms, but without that knowledge any possibly hysteria is silly.

That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?

[ventilation.vostermans.com image 500x500]



That is a massive contraption if you scale it up to wind farm size, but you would think there would be some sort of "hey, don't fly into this" kind of...I don't know, reflectors?... that would work to warn off the birds.
 
2013-12-07 08:49:13 PM

robhidalgo: I'm guessing that the sheer size of the rotor would necessitate a guard so large that the entire structure would become too top-heavy.


demaL-demaL-yeH: How would you shroud a fan with a radius of 75 meters? Pick a material that is light enough for the base to bear, strong enough not to be pushed into the blades by the wind, doesn't create a sail effect, and cheap enough to retrofit all turbine towers.
/You know, a typical small-scale engineering problem.


Monkeyfark Ridiculous: That is a massive contraption if you scale it up to wind farm size


So, instead of something that is attached to the top of the fan base, build a giant structure around the turbine. Shaped like a thimble that allows wind but not bird sized objects.
 
2013-12-07 08:49:13 PM

Psykorgasm: Ironically, I just did a paper on wind turbines a few days ago and one of the big issues that comes up is this.

[img.fark.net image 614x434]
Of course this is from a text book in 2009 so the numbers could be higher.

The number with birds getting killed by the turbines and the number that get killed derping into buildings and windows is very significant.

The bigger issue that one could make about wind turbines is the number of bats that get killed from them and since bats have a lower population and a much lower birth rate than birds, their deaths tend to affect their population significantly.


The Obama administration, in its depraved indifference to everything that is wholesome and pure, is letting cats and buildings off scot-free with their wanton spree of bird murder.

THE OUTRAGE
 
2013-12-07 08:49:27 PM

bulldg4life: whistleridge: Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?

That one company has reported 10. So, spread out over several companies, then you get the dozens, I would assume. I don't believe it is the big conspiracy that you are insinuating.


----------------------
Personally,  I'd be interested to know if coal or oil contribute to the deaths of endangered species or bald eagles and how many each year. It is a nothing statistic if there isn't a comparison to other forms of energy generation.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that wind turbines kill bald eagles more than the other forms, but without that knowledge any possibly hysteria is silly.

That being said, is it really that impossible to put a guard or cover around the turbines like on a portable fan one would have in their house? Am I missing something here?


Coal is clean. I saw it in an advertisement.
 
2013-12-07 08:49:43 PM

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: .I don't know, reflectors?... that would work to warn off the birds.


What's the solution at night?
 
2013-12-07 08:51:51 PM
Wiping out America's Bald Eagles is part of Obama's plan to fundamentally transform America.
 
2013-12-07 08:51:58 PM

Psykorgasm: Ironically, I just did a paper on wind turbines a few days ago and one of the big issues that comes up is this.

[img.fark.net image 614x434]
Of course this is from a text book in 2009 so the numbers could be higher.

The number with birds getting killed by the turbines and the number that get killed derping into buildings and windows is very significant.

The bigger issue that one could make about wind turbines is the number of bats that get killed from them and since bats have a lower population and a much lower birth rate than birds, their deaths tend to affect their population significantly.


It would be interesting to see that chart controlled for number of instances, though. If there are 10000 cats in the country for every wind turbine, for instance. If you have one kind of building that kills way more birds than other kinds, you probably don't ignore that issue just because not many of them have been constructed yet.
 
2013-12-07 08:52:51 PM

Peki: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: .I don't know, reflectors?... that would work to warn off the birds.

What's the solution at night?


Lights?
 
2013-12-07 08:53:41 PM
Massive animal extinction by global warming or 79 golden eagles killed by accidental turbine deaths... hmm such a hard choice.
 
2013-12-07 08:54:14 PM
The day conservatives convince me they give a fark about wildlife (except keeping up the numbers of things they enjoy killing for sport of course).
 
2013-12-07 08:54:43 PM
If you like your eagles you can keep your eagles, Period
 
2013-12-07 08:56:46 PM
Err, I don't know what happens that day, but it should be pigs flying through hell wearing winter coats or something.

But hey cons, prove me wrong and work with dems towards the best environmental energy future we can have.
 
2013-12-07 08:58:22 PM
Do you know how many deer and other wildlife have been killed by our highway system? Let's tear that down too.
 
2013-12-07 08:58:42 PM
Eagles are not listed on the international registry of endangered species. Their populations are healthy and not at risk of extinction.

shiatty byproduct of windfarms and certainly worth working on a fix but it's not a huge scandaltastrophe.
 
2013-12-07 08:58:51 PM
"Green energy" isn't about the environment. Its about politicians acquiring power and money by distributing government favors.
 
2013-12-07 09:02:02 PM

sirgrim: Do you know how many deer and other wildlife have been killed by our highway system? Let's tear that down too.


How many threatened and endangered species?
 
2013-12-07 09:04:18 PM
Psykorgasm:

The number with birds getting killed by the turbines and the number that get killed derping into buildings and windows is very significant.

How come they left out the number that get killed by poachers?  Oh, wait, I think I know why.
 
2013-12-07 09:04:52 PM

Ricardo Klement: How many threatened and endangered species?


The bald eagle isn't on the threatened or endangered list.
 
2013-12-07 09:05:43 PM

Sock Ruh Tease: [blog.garagepunknyc.com image 400x347]


Showed up for the crying eagle pic. Not leaving disappointed.
 
2013-12-07 09:06:50 PM

Ricardo Klement: sirgrim: Do you know how many deer and other wildlife have been killed by our highway system? Let's tear that down too.

How many threatened and endangered species?


19 panther deaths in 2012 alone.
 
2013-12-07 09:08:57 PM
TFA distilled: "The new rule will provide legal protection for the lifespan of wind farms and other projects if companies obtain permits and make efforts to avoid killing protected birds. Companies would have to take additional measures if they killed or injured more eagles than they had estimated they would, or if new information suggested that eagle populations were being affected....Until now, no wind energy company has obtained permission authorizing the killing, injuring or harassment of eagles, although five-year permits have been available since 2009. That has put the companies at legal risk and has discouraged private investment in renewable energy. It also hasn't helped eagles since, without permits, companies are not required to take steps to reduce their impact on the birds or report when they are killed. "

Before: companies didn't have to have permits, take any action to avoid killing birds, or report how many they killed.
Now: they do.

Quick, to the outragemobile!
 
2013-12-07 09:09:41 PM

whistleridge: FTA:  The new rule is designed to address environmental consequences that stand in the way of the nation's wind energy rush: the dozens of bald and golden eagles being killed each year by the giant, spinning blades of wind turbines.

Picture Caption: In this April 18, 2013, photo, a golden eagle is seen flying over a wind turbine on Duke energy's top of the world windfarm in Converse County Wyo. The company has reported 10 golden eagle deaths since it started operation in 2009.

Well? Which is it? Are dozens being killed each year, or are less than a dozen being killed in 4 years?


Stats for an entire industry vs stats for single wind farm. I would think it's obvious that both statements can be completely right.
 
2013-12-07 09:09:47 PM
Eagles prefer oil anyways. Gets them a hand job.
i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-07 09:10:41 PM
"~~Every year, an estimated 75 to 110 Golden Eagles are killed by the wind turbines in the Altamont Pass Wind Resource Area (APWRA). Some lose their wings, others are decapitated, and still others are cut in half. "

Altamont Pass numbers are not even included in this stories numbers.     The numbers in this thread are likely a small subset of the total.
 
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