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(Salon)   Sorry, conservatives, you can't attack Nelson Mandela as a communist and a terrorist for 40 years and then suddenly call him a defender of liberty and justice   (salon.com) divider line 325
    More: Obvious, Nelson Mandela, humans, Cold War, Economy of Iraq, American conservatives, communist revolution, Yasser Arafat, apartheid  
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3861 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Dec 2013 at 4:13 PM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



325 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-06 02:17:42 PM
this means you, ted cruz.
 
2013-12-06 02:20:19 PM
He was a communist, he was also a great man.
 
2013-12-06 02:20:56 PM
Sure they can.  Their base will lap it up.  It will turn into "reality" for them.  They've been doing it for so long that, to an ordinary person, they sound insane.
 
2013-12-06 02:23:34 PM
Republicans have no problem saying one thing today, and the exact opposite tomorrow. And Fox News viewers have no problem believing anything the talking heads tell them.
 
2013-12-06 02:24:42 PM
They're not all praising him....
 
2013-12-06 02:27:52 PM

El_Perro: They're not all praising him....

Clint Eastwood made a movie about how he helped some soccer team...


I...I...I just don't know how to respond to that.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-06 02:30:20 PM
How long did they attack MLK before pretending to respect him?  Or Lincoln for that matter.
 
2013-12-06 02:31:13 PM

Sin_City_Superhero: El_Perro: They're not all praising him....

Clint Eastwood made a movie about how he helped some soccer team...

I...I...I just don't know how to respond to that.


I particularly liked this comment:

But his actual RECORD....did he create jobs? Did he save lives? Did he lower taxes, create wealth?

But was he an American Conservative Job Creator(TM)???
 
2013-12-06 02:34:04 PM
I guess some folks are too young to remember this, but when Reagan vetoed the anti-Apartheid Act passed by Congress, a lot of Republicans broke ranks and voted to override his veto. I think well over half the Republicans in the Senate voted to override the veto. The ones who sided with Reagan were guys like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, but I think Mitch McConnell was one of the ones who defied Reagan. It was mainly younger Republicans and moderates. I guess it was a different era for the GOP.
 
2013-12-06 03:02:37 PM

Nabb1: I guess it was a different era for the GOP.


boy, you said it, Chewie.
 
2013-12-06 03:05:09 PM
I was at the gym yesterday when the news broke, and FoxNooz is always on (small towns suck). Shepard Smith was choosing his comments very carefully. It was almost as if he had a bit in his mouth and somebody was yanking on it every 15 seconds. It was beautiful.

I was just thinking to myself, "PleasesaytheNword! PleasesaytheNword! PleasesaytheNword!"
 
2013-12-06 03:05:17 PM
The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win
 
2013-12-06 03:11:24 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win


aaaand away we go!
 
2013-12-06 03:14:03 PM

Nabb1: I guess some folks are too young to remember this, but when Reagan vetoed the anti-Apartheid Act passed by Congress, a lot of Republicans broke ranks and voted to override his veto.


It should also be noted that Republicans watered down the sanctions against South Africa by a significant degree. Or, as was noted by the Ottawa Citizen on September 11, 1986:

"Sen. Richard Lugar (R.-Ind.), chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, announced that he persuaded House leaders to accept the Senate bill, although it is weaker than the house legislation.
...

The Senate bill would ban new U.S. business investment in south Africa and prohibit trade in agricultural products, steel and nuclear supplies. The House bill, passed by a voice vote last June, would have required a near-complete break in business ties with South Africa. "

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=4r4yAAAAIBAJ&sjid=be8FAAAAIBAJ& dq =anti-apartheid%20act%20senate&pg=2214%2C44297
 
2013-12-06 03:17:39 PM

Nabb1: I guess some folks are too young to remember this, but when Reagan vetoed the anti-Apartheid Act passed by Congress, a lot of Republicans broke ranks and voted to override his veto. I think well over half the Republicans in the Senate voted to override the veto. The ones who sided with Reagan were guys like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, but I think Mitch McConnell was one of the ones who defied Reagan. It was mainly younger Republicans and moderates. I guess it was a different era for the GOP.


This is true. No one should say or imply that all conservatives opposed Mandela. But the President, who is basically a Republican god these days, certainly did, as did a very large proportion of the movement. And its not just the 80s. The sentiment goes way back, decades before that.
 
2013-12-06 03:23:14 PM

FlashHarry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win

aaaand away we go!


Oh, FFS... you're going to take another one of my comments wrong, aren't you?

/I gotta get that damned sarcasm font fixed
 
2013-12-06 03:36:56 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win


One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.
 
2013-12-06 03:41:18 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Oh, FFS... you're going to take another one of my comments wrong, aren't you?

/I gotta get that damned sarcasm font fixed


LOL

sorry...my bad.
 
2013-12-06 04:13:12 PM
Republicans still think apartheid was a good idea.
 
2013-12-06 04:14:51 PM
At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.
 
2013-12-06 04:17:23 PM

Confabulat: Republicans still think apartheid was a good idea.


hell, most probably live in gated communities anyway.
 
2013-12-06 04:18:32 PM

vpb: How long did they attack MLK before pretending to respect him? Or Lincoln for that matter.


Hey in the case of MLK they've even written out his social justice, affirmative action, and anti-war platform to pretend he only made one speech.
 
2013-12-06 04:20:01 PM
Mandela never fought to have Obamacare passed- therefore he is a great man.

I also heard that Hillary Clinton killed Steve Biko in Benghazi. Peter Gabriel has a song about it and everything.
 
2013-12-06 04:20:13 PM

Red Shirt Blues: At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.


I heard he was the polar opposite.
 
2013-12-06 04:21:13 PM
are you dumb, submitter?

of course they can. we live in a post-truth world
 
2013-12-06 04:21:22 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Sure they can.  Their base will lap it up.  It will turn into "reality" for them.  They've been doing it for so long that, to an ordinary person, they sound insane.


Actually, it doesn't even have to be that.

Prior to his being released, pretty much all we knew about him was that he was a "terrorist", and literally so:  He helped plan bombing attacks on the government of South Africa.  We also knew at the time he was aligned with the Soviet Union, if not explicitly a communist.

His subsequent release from prison and his work as president of South Africa show a different side of him, on that wasn't necessarily apparent in the 1970's and 1980's.

So it's not really that insane of a thing.
 
2013-12-06 04:23:18 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7484517.stm
Mandela taken off US terror list
1 July 2008

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had called the restrictions a "rather embarrassing matter that I still have to waive in my own counterpart, the foreign minister of South Africa, not to mention the great leader Nelson Mandela."


George W. Bush's administration took the ANC and its members off the 'terrorist' list.  Well past when it should have been done ... but at least they (we) finally got around to doing the right thing ...
 
2013-12-06 04:23:50 PM
Why not all 4?

It is not like they are all mutually exclusive.
 
2013-12-06 04:24:14 PM

Red Shirt Blues: At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.


Heh. I have a feeling this issue isn't going away for a while and modmins are going to start banninating people for it, like "freecat.jpg" and the Quaker HA!HA! guy.
 
2013-12-06 04:24:24 PM

Nabb1: I guess some folks are too young to remember this, but when Reagan vetoed the anti-Apartheid Act passed by Congress, a lot of Republicans broke ranks and voted to override his veto. I think well over half the Republicans in the Senate voted to override the veto. The ones who sided with Reagan were guys like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, but I think Mitch McConnell was one of the ones who defied Reagan. It was mainly younger Republicans and moderates. I guess it was a different era for the GOP.


And the modern Republican Party worships Reagan, while McConnell will probably get primaried by some idiot with a tea bag attached to his tricorn hat. What does that tell you?
 
2013-12-06 04:29:38 PM
Part of the greatness of Mandela was that he once aligned himself with violence and totalitarianism and was able to walk away from that and embrace peace and democracy.  Looking at his Marxist, violent past isn't evil per se, but you can't do that without recognizing his rejection of that ideology.

And you also can't ignore the fact that Mandela could have so easily declared himself Mugabe 2.0, but refused to do so in the name of democracy.  That was his greatest achievement.  The fact that American conservatives damn him for an ideology he rejected and can't praise him for embracing democracy speaks volumes about American conservatism.
 
2013-12-06 04:32:19 PM
Republican definition of Communism:  anything that could potentially take my money.  and Money is their only True Love.
 
2013-12-06 04:32:56 PM

FlashHarry: MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win

aaaand away we go!


He's not all that wrong. If the British had won the war of independence every man who signed the Declaration of Independence would have been publically hanged for treason and gone down in history along with Guy Fawkes and other rebels.
 
2013-12-06 04:33:33 PM
First they Ignore you
then they Laugh at you
then they Attack you
then you win.
          --M. Ghandi.
 
2013-12-06 04:33:38 PM

StopLurkListen: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7484517.stm
Mandela taken off US terror list
1 July 2008

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice had called the restrictions a "rather embarrassing matter that I still have to waive in my own counterpart, the foreign minister of South Africa, not to mention the great leader Nelson Mandela."

George W. Bush's administration took the ANC and its members off the 'terrorist' list.  Well past when it should have been done ... but at least they (we) finally got around to doing the right thing ...


White guilt.

/ducks
 
2013-12-06 04:34:09 PM

Poopspasm: Nabb1: I guess some folks are too young to remember this, but when Reagan vetoed the anti-Apartheid Act passed by Congress, a lot of Republicans broke ranks and voted to override his veto. I think well over half the Republicans in the Senate voted to override the veto. The ones who sided with Reagan were guys like Jesse Helms and Strom Thurmond, but I think Mitch McConnell was one of the ones who defied Reagan. It was mainly younger Republicans and moderates. I guess it was a different era for the GOP.

And the modern Republican Party worships Reagan, while McConnell will probably get primaried by some idiot with a tea bag attached to his tricorn hat. What does that tell you?


McConnell will be fine, all he has to do is inflate his throat pouch to intimidate the primary challenger.

i1126.photobucket.com

/all credit to The Onion
 
2013-12-06 04:35:03 PM
SALON now following FARK threads for article ideas.
 
2013-12-06 04:35:26 PM

Confabulat: Republicans still think apartheid was a good idea.


that old fark ronnie raygun did.  lucky for the world, he's taking his Dirt Nap.
 
2013-12-06 04:35:40 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Red Shirt Blues: At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.

Heh. I have a feeling this issue isn't going away for a while and modmins are going to start banninating people for it, like "freecat.jpg" and the Quaker HA!HA! guy.


www.cinemaperaestudiants.cati0.kym-cdn.com
i287.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-06 04:35:56 PM
You know, if Nelson Mandela were alive today, he would say that we could do so.
 
2013-12-06 04:36:29 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: The only difference between a terrorist and a patriot is whether or not you win



pretty much it.   to anyone with a brain who doesn't let the TV think for them any way.
 
2013-12-06 04:38:02 PM

Red Shirt Blues: At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.


Serious, that was stupid. It's like when everyone compares anyone black who is good as something the "Tiger woods of...". It's like, your just doing that because he is black right? Seems that is still very common in sports today people only compare others of the same nationality.

I was think of Mandela much like a Lincoln because he fought against part of the nation but then did his best to bring it back together.
 
2013-12-06 04:38:17 PM
Well that was damning.  The ending where they break out the twiter response to Cruz's praise really was the nail.  Very strong stuff.
 
2013-12-06 04:38:27 PM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Red Shirt Blues: At least they recognized he was no Al Sharpton.

Heh. I have a feeling this issue isn't going away for a while and modmins are going to start banninating people for it, like "freecat.jpg" and the Quaker HA!HA! guy.


THAT'S what happened to haha guy? Why? I liked haha guy. Also, what ever happened to gat_00? Liked that guy too.
 
2013-12-06 04:38:41 PM
Sure they can, just watch...
 
2013-12-06 04:39:23 PM
Sure they can, conservatives live in a fantasy land where they can ignore facts. Why would they let the past get in the way of a truth they've created for themselves?
 
2013-12-06 04:40:55 PM
He might've been a great man. He might've been a terrorist. He might've been both. But I'll never forgive him for that MMMBop song.
 
2013-12-06 04:43:26 PM

Trail of Dead: THAT'S what happened to haha guy? Why? I liked haha guy. Also, what ever happened to gat_00? Liked that guy too.


Remember Gorgor? Good times...good times.
 
2013-12-06 04:44:26 PM
You're talking about the same group of people who are now calling MLK Jr. a Republican even though just a few decades ago, they called him a communist.
 
2013-12-06 04:44:38 PM

dittybopper: Marcus Aurelius: Sure they can.  Their base will lap it up.  It will turn into "reality" for them.  They've been doing it for so long that, to an ordinary person, they sound insane.

Actually, it doesn't even have to be that.

Prior to his being released, pretty much all we knew about him was that he was a "terrorist", and literally so:  He helped plan bombing attacks on the government of South Africa.  We also knew at the time he was aligned with the Soviet Union, if not explicitly a communist.

His subsequent release from prison and his work as president of South Africa show a different side of him, on that wasn't necessarily apparent in the 1970's and 1980's.

So it's not really that insane of a thing.


Very true, but I was speaking in gross generalities about the information processing abilities of low information extremists.

Mandela remade himself more thoroughly than nearly anyone else in the 20th century.
 
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