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(Slate)   "People don't actually like creativity." No, that's just Hollywood   (slate.com) divider line 56
    More: Dumbass, Hollywood, race to the top, creativity, No Child Left Behind, art world, Everybody Hates  
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4542 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2013 at 4:17 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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d23 [TotalFark]
2013-12-06 04:19:06 PM
People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.
 
2013-12-06 04:20:55 PM

d23: People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.

 
2013-12-06 04:22:34 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: d23: People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.

 
d23 [TotalFark]
2013-12-06 04:24:00 PM

Odoriferous Queef: Jim from Saint Paul: d23: People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.


i1.ytimg.com

Knowing Fark, I probably should feel put down, but I don't.
 
2013-12-06 04:24:19 PM
Yes, all the things that man has crafted were made with the greatest dissatisfaction. "Damn my creativity!"
 
2013-12-06 04:24:47 PM
People don't like creativity.  They just want something comfortable and familiar that allows them to have a crafted shared experience with each other.  Thanks, TV.
 
2013-12-06 04:24:54 PM
I express my creativity by submitting headlines to Fark.
 
2013-12-06 04:26:10 PM

hectomoo: People don't like creativity.  They just want something comfortable and familiar that allows them to have a crafted shared experience with each other.  Thanks, TV.


I think TFA's point is that we don't like other people's creativity.
 
2013-12-06 04:27:01 PM
Plenty of people appreciate creativity. It is just not that appropriate for business applications. Creativity is so subjective, too much of it runs the risk of alienating your customer base.

If you're really so brilliant, invent your own product instead of crying when your fat, middle-aged boss doesn't like your mind-blowing idea for the new website design, Michelangelo.
 
2013-12-06 04:27:40 PM
Talk about missing the f*cking point, subtard...
 
2013-12-06 04:28:07 PM
Maybe I am just spoiled because I work in R&D, but creativity is incredibly highly valued here.
 
2013-12-06 04:31:51 PM
Also, fwiw the one article linked as the primary source that creativity isn't valued only shows an Abstract.   I'm curious if the author actually read the article, it's an interesting assertion, I would like to read it.
 
2013-12-06 04:32:26 PM
Hmm...anti-creativity? That's certainly thinking outside the box. Let's do it!
 
2013-12-06 04:32:37 PM
whoops, nevermind I found the full article, my bad
 
2013-12-06 04:34:18 PM
"People don't like creativity. I know because my friend is a really creative person but they won't listen to her ideas at work!"

I am an idea guy. I do a lot of out of creative thinking and working outside the box. The thing that makes this a useful trait is that I recognize that most of those ideas actually suck, including the "good" ones that seem like they should make things better but are just not realistic in terms of what is accomplishable or would require more time and effort to pull off than it's worth.

People don't hate creativity. They like creativity, when it is successful. Most creative ideas are not successful, however, even if their originators think they've come up with the most brilliant thought to grace the Earth since someone tried drinking the dirty water at the bottom of the grain barrel.
 
2013-12-06 04:36:22 PM
If people seem to hate your creativity then perhaps your ideas suck.
 
2013-12-06 04:37:13 PM

Arkanaut: hectomoo: People don't like creativity.  They just want something comfortable and familiar that allows them to have a crafted shared experience with each other.  Thanks, TV.

I think TFA's point is that we don't like other people's creativity.


i like other people's creativities, but i don't like other people's failures of creativity.

/ like falling skies or walking dead.  let's put all of humanity at risk and then, instead of dealing with the real problem, have a million touchy feely bullshiat problems to drive the show, because I'm too dumb to make the real issues interesting.  (i stopped watching both of these shows many seasons ago, so I have no idea what I'm talking about.  But after enough failures of imagination, you're just feeding the problem by continuing to watch)
// compare with children of men, where an ex-husband/wife duo can work together, without ever addressing the serious divide between them, because the sake of humanity was at issue.
/// if you want touchy feely bullshiat, do it like breaking bad, where the emotional problems are the source of the troubles (ignoring cancer, which ran it's own course believably without much ado, because there's no stopping that monster).
 
2013-12-06 04:41:28 PM

d23: Odoriferous Queef: Jim from Saint Paul: d23: People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Knowing Fark, I probably should feel put down, but I don't.


I think you misunderstand.  I was simply being a mindless corporate drone.  [repeating the bullshiat in the two posts prior to mine]

I thought the article was rubbish even by Slate's standards. I work in a field where creativity is highly respected.
 
2013-12-06 04:41:31 PM

d23: Odoriferous Queef: Jim from Saint Paul: d23: People in the U.S. are conditioned to be replaceable corporate drones right now.  The article is absolutely right.

[i1.ytimg.com image 480x360]

Knowing Fark, I probably should feel put down, but I don't.


♫ Now is a time of great decision... are we to stay or up and quit.... there's no avoiding this conclusion... our country's turing into sheeeeeeeat.♫
 
2013-12-06 04:44:30 PM
READ THE LINKED PAPER


Their experiments sucked ass, because they straight-up assumed a "Creative-practical" dichotomy, and asked people to do tasks that determined which they "liked" better unconsciously.  And along comes the Salon writer to take the paper as gospel, feeling like a repressed "creative type".

The paper was "creative" though.  Good for it.
 
2013-12-06 04:45:43 PM

Delta1212: "People don't like creativity. I know because my friend is a really creative person but they won't listen to her ideas at work!"

I am an idea guy. I do a lot of out of creative thinking and working outside the box. The thing that makes this a useful trait is that I recognize that most of those ideas actually suck, including the "good" ones that seem like they should make things better but are just not realistic in terms of what is accomplishable or would require more time and effort to pull off than it's worth.

People don't hate creativity. They like creativity, when it is successful. Most creative ideas are not successful, however, even if their originators think they've come up with the most brilliant thought to grace the Earth since someone tried drinking the dirty water at the bottom of the grain barrel.


THIS.

And if you can't be successful like Bill Gates, be entertaining like Steve Jobs. You won't get as much market share, in fact you will probably end up back in the gutter every time someone else manages to steal the show, but at least you will be remembered fondly instead of hated jealously.

/an attention whore's life might still be a whore's life
//but it beats having no life at all
 
2013-12-06 04:45:55 PM

Necronic: Also, fwiw the one article linked as the primary source that creativity isn't valued only shows an Abstract.   I'm curious if the author actually read the article, it's an interesting assertion, I would like to read it.


No, it's a full PDF, with experimental methods, and they suck.  At least for the conclusion the abstract claims.
 
2013-12-06 04:50:02 PM
www.dilbert.com
 
2013-12-06 05:01:06 PM
Creativity usually takes a back seat when you need a massive upfront investment.  That's why Hollywood adapts books all the time.  It's easy to be creative when it's cheap.
 
2013-12-06 05:09:54 PM
I work in Hollywood. They like creativity just fine out here. But the key is to make them think it was their idea.
 
2013-12-06 05:18:26 PM
Hollywood only likes creativity when they think it's a sure thing.  The bean counters don't like risks and encourage everyone to follow Blake Snyder's Beat Sheet and regurgitate the same tired story templates with the same tired character archetypes.  I mean Joseph Campbell studied the world's myths and stories throughout history over different cultures, religions, societies, etc. and this is just how humans operate.  We are comfortable withe familiarity in storytelling.  Hollywood just turns the process into an assembly line.
 
2013-12-06 05:20:44 PM

I Browse: I work in Hollywood. They like creativity just fine out here. But the key is to make them think it was their idea.


Looking at the top grossing films of 2013 I'd have to disagree.

1    Iron Man 3    
2    Despicable Me 2    
3    The Hunger Games: Catching Fire   
4    Man of Steel    
5    Monsters University    
6    Gravity   
7    Fast and Furious 6 
8    Oz the Great and Powerful  
9    Star Trek Into Darkness 
10    World War Z
 
2013-12-06 05:21:32 PM
The box is there for a reason -  search through it once in a while and you are likely to find that somebody else thought of your brilliant idea a long time ago.
 
2013-12-06 05:21:33 PM

PillsHere: Hollywood only likes creativity when they think it's a sure thing.  The bean counters don't like risks and encourage everyone to follow Blake Snyder's Beat Sheet and regurgitate the same tired story templates with the same tired character archetypes.  I mean Joseph Campbell studied the world's myths and stories throughout history over different cultures, religions, societies, etc. and this is just how humans operate.  We are comfortable withe familiarity in storytelling.  Hollywood just turns the process into an assembly line.


Creativity is risk though.
 
2013-12-06 05:23:46 PM
Here is the problem with creative people. They think that just because they have a good idea, people have to buy into it or use it. Well guess what, most people aren't very creative, so your concept or idea is going to seem outlandish, and in the place of business and depending on the circumstance or position, the person you are pitching your idea to will probably tend to be more conservative, especially the older generations that, guess what, will probably have seniority. I am going to blow your mind, but if you have a great idea, you HAVE TO SELL IT. This is very difficult to do, and requires you to understand the person you are trying to sell your idea to. I go through this on a daily basis. It isn't that people do not want creativity, they just don't understand it. You have to communicate effectively, and most creative people are simply not equipped with the tools to do this from my experience.

For example, we recently won a huge bid. The client was a bit older but recognized a need for their company to get with the times so-to-speak. Most of their staff was older and was reluctant to change. The company was having trouble hiring new and younger employees however because of their ways. The CEO was in a bind and while convincing him the change was good, in itself was an impossible task, convincing his employees was even more so. Our competitors produced solutions, some very creative and some close to what they had now - our idea wasn't the most creative, but the most eloquent. Had we simply submitted our bid without an explanation, there is no way we would have been selected. What we were able to create however was a packaged response that was able to communicate our idea and reasoning that the CEO was able to share with his employees. As a result, this put them at ease and clearly set ourselves apart from our competition. Our competitors could have arrived at the same solution we had, however did not properly communicate their ideas. This doesn't mean the person(s) are not open to creativity, they just don't understand it.

I got a 20 that says homeboy's friend is a self-righteous biatch that thinks every idea she has is an epiphany and everyone is just stupid for not listening to her. The reality of the matter is probably that she doesn't know how to properly communicate her ideas for them to gain traction.
 
2013-12-06 05:28:51 PM
".... Anna Wintour systematically rejects the ideas of her creative director Grace Coddington, seemingly with no reason aside from asserting her power."

Self-aggrandizing Alpha Dog dick-wagging comes first, then perhaps productive creativity.
 
2013-12-06 05:35:40 PM

bbfreak: PillsHere: Hollywood only likes creativity when they think it's a sure thing.  The bean counters don't like risks and encourage everyone to follow Blake Snyder's Beat Sheet and regurgitate the same tired story templates with the same tired character archetypes.  I mean Joseph Campbell studied the world's myths and stories throughout history over different cultures, religions, societies, etc. and this is just how humans operate.  We are comfortable withe familiarity in storytelling.  Hollywood just turns the process into an assembly line.

Creativity is risk though.


Creativity itself isn't a risk. The risk comes in that the idea or product will be understood and accepted. Windows 8 is a pretty good concept. Removing the start menu for quicker browsing and going with the tiles. It is pretty cool and streamlined - particularly for Tablets. The problem came with almost all users are accustomed to the standard Windows format with the Start Menu and when you just spring a product or idea on them, they are going to be frustrated - even if they continue to use it and it is easier than the old format. Most of the reviews are negative almost entirely due to the roll-out and forcing users to adapt. They didn't educate their users and allow them to adapt. I remember a few weeks ago there was some patch for Windows 8, and I was pissed my All-Apps button was either gone or moved. For the life of me, I couldn't find it. I had to farking search to see where the fark it went. There was no prompt, and the new way makes perfect sense, but I am still annoyed at that experience. When people have enough of those experiences or when they are intense, they will be less receptive to "creative solutions" put forth in front of them.
 
2013-12-06 05:39:42 PM
it's kind of like how the adage "Honesty is the best policy" is a total lie.  we need the lies to remain civil to one another.  and when girls say they wish their boyfriends were more like you.  they really dont or theyd actually be dating you.  or "the truth will set you free".  most of the time the truth lands you in jail.

so yeah, people dont like creativity from others.
 
2013-12-06 05:42:55 PM

bbfreak: I Browse: I work in Hollywood. They like creativity just fine out here. But the key is to make them think it was their idea.

Looking at the top grossing films of 2013 I'd have to disagree.

1    Iron Man 3    
2    Despicable Me 2    
3    The Hunger Games: Catching Fire   
4    Man of Steel    
5    Monsters University    
6    Gravity   
7    Fast and Furious 6 
8    Oz the Great and Powerful  
9    Star Trek Into Darkness 
10    World War Z


Damn, I usually avoid seeing all of the popular things.  I ruined it with Star Trek!
 
2013-12-06 05:58:46 PM
There are exceptions, but the educational system in America is designed to squash not only creative thought, but also exceptionalness and even the right to disagree.  When students face that kind of institutional suppression it's no wonder they continue to act it out at work.

I remember in an English class I was assigned to write an essay about how this detective in a story was able to solve this mystery (it was an exercise on detail).  I complained to the teacher that I thought the detective was jumping to an inappropriate conclusion, and to my utter shock, the teacher told me to write that instead.  Literally the first time it ever happened (11th grade).
 
2013-12-06 05:59:29 PM
Right, and copyright kills innovation.
 
2013-12-06 06:19:28 PM
The article and the research done at Cornell was about *individuals*. In the context of a design firm, business, or other organization, the "rejection" they're talking about = the client or target audience saying or thinking the organization don't understand their needs or even refusing to do business because they think you're so out of touch. Which is a lot more than the social rejection of an individual (getting your feelings hurt) talked about in the article.  This rejection could be big loss of $ and bankruptcy, or worse, simply by being "creative."

So, for organizations, my takeaway is rather the opposite of the article. As individuals yes we should maybe take encouragement from rejection sometimes. But an organization needs to proactively avoid rejection, even to the extent of throttling creative juices in order to anticipate and serve what will be received the best.

If it makes you feel better, consider that part of being "creative"... discovering and designing to the best outcome.
 
2013-12-06 06:28:27 PM
Futurama had it right. Clever things make people feel dumb and unexpected things make people feel scared.
 
2013-12-06 06:35:53 PM

Wodan11: The article and the research done at Cornell was about *individuals*. In the context of a design firm, business, or other organization, the "rejection" they're talking about = the client or target audience saying or thinking the organization don't understand their needs or even refusing to do business because they think you're so out of touch. Which is a lot more than the social rejection of an individual (getting your feelings hurt) talked about in the article.  This rejection could be big loss of $ and bankruptcy, or worse, simply by being "creative."

So, for organizations, my takeaway is rather the opposite of the article. As individuals yes we should maybe take encouragement from rejection sometimes. But an organization needs to proactively avoid rejection, even to the extent of throttling creative juices in order to anticipate and serve what will be received the best.

If it makes you feel better, consider that part of being "creative"... discovering and designing to the best outcome.


Well said. There are many ways of being creative, and being strategic is very much being creative. You could three companies all come up with the exact same idea or product. The company that does the best job positioning it and that understands their target audience however will likely be the victor, not necessarily the one with the best product or solution. Artists take note, you are only as good as your reputation. Do you really think Banksy is all that creative? There are PLENTY of other guys/gals out there that do more intellectual or profound works of art. Banksy, however, has created an iconic brand and is very creative in his placement.
 
2013-12-06 07:07:58 PM
People don't like change, fear the unknown, and are uncomfortable with new perspectives.  So yes, they don't like creativity--they just praise it to keep the kids busy making fridge art rather than playing in traffic.

I have said this before, and here I go again: if (Americans at least) actually valued creativity, "art degree" wouldn't be a punchline.
 
2013-12-06 07:32:31 PM

the money is in the banana stand: bbfreak: PillsHere: Hollywood only likes creativity when they think it's a sure thing.  The bean counters don't like risks and encourage everyone to follow Blake Snyder's Beat Sheet and regurgitate the same tired story templates with the same tired character archetypes.  I mean Joseph Campbell studied the world's myths and stories throughout history over different cultures, religions, societies, etc. and this is just how humans operate.  We are comfortable withe familiarity in storytelling.  Hollywood just turns the process into an assembly line.

Creativity is risk though.

Creativity itself isn't a risk. The risk comes in that the idea or product will be understood and accepted. Windows 8 is a pretty good concept. Removing the start menu for quicker browsing and going with the tiles. It is pretty cool and streamlined - particularly for Tablets. The problem came with almost all users are accustomed to the standard Windows format with the Start Menu and when you just spring a product or idea on them, they are going to be frustrated - even if they continue to use it and it is easier than the old format. Most of the reviews are negative almost entirely due to the roll-out and forcing users to adapt. They didn't educate their users and allow them to adapt. I remember a few weeks ago there was some patch for Windows 8, and I was pissed my All-Apps button was either gone or moved. For the life of me, I couldn't find it. I had to farking search to see where the fark it went. There was no prompt, and the new way makes perfect sense, but I am still annoyed at that experience. When people have enough of those experiences or when they are intense, they will be less receptive to "creative solutions" put forth in front of them.


Windows 8 was an example of being "creative" for the sake of being creative.  They should feel ashamed for putting gimmicks, I mean creativity, ahead of usability.  Of course knowing many people who work at Microsoft I can tell you that it was not entirely supported in house by those who worked on it.  My understanding is the Windows 8 team was working under a dictator like figure who didn't listen to reason despite many pleas to him about why things were bad/wrong.  I heard this before it was released so it isn't a retrospective thing.  Of course MS has a history of every other Windows being good so the next one should be good - hopefully.
 
2013-12-06 08:02:13 PM

Catlike Typist: I have said this before, and here I go again: if (Americans at least) actually valued creativity, "art degree" wouldn't be a punchline.


Devil's Advocate: art degree is a punchline in part because of the idea that a degree is needed for art; idea being that you should be out painting and getting skills rather than going into all kinds of debt.
 
2013-12-06 08:16:53 PM
Hollywood Might make 1/2 a dozen movies a year that I Might be interested in. Out of that Top 10 list above I was only interested in Gravity, Star Trek & Iron Man. ST was good and IM3 wasn't bad but I thought it could've been better. Saw a Cam copy of Man of Steel and thought it sucked. Both the Cam copy And the movie itself. What's the sense of battling the bad guy and still destroying the whole friggin' city? I wouldn't be interested in seeing that again. Saw the 1st Hunger Games and didn't get what all the Hype was about, guess it's for the generations younger than me. Don't care for mindless driving movies. Vanishing Point back in it's day was enough for me. Saw a Cam of MU and didn't think it was as good as the original, just filler. Zombies? I've been to plenty of Funerals and have yet to see anyone get back up yet. Forget that stuff. I record more stuff off of TCM anymore these days but they ran Gladiator with Russell Crowe the other day, heck that's not That old and I didn't think it was all that great when it first came out either. Gravity will show up on Usenet sooner or later, I'll see it then. Haven't been to the movies in person in something like 15yrs or more now. Why do you think I got this big TV anyway?
 
2013-12-06 08:43:39 PM
Yet, alot the creative folks from everywhere else have a grand tendency to flock here. Beauty is, we have such an abstract identity as a whole, you don''t have to worry about appealing to the cultural sensitivities of many other places, and we rarely ban anything artistic nowadays. If you wanna go full out with next to no constraints, the US is the place to be, really, despite what the armchair poet at Starbucks tells you about how 'artists are being suppressed'.

Unless you're looking for a George Carlin in Saudi Arabia, or Brits not banning you for saying you wanna puke in the Queen Mum's fartbox.
 
2013-12-06 10:34:00 PM

Catlike Typist: People don't like change, fear the unknown, and are uncomfortable with new perspectives.  So yes, they don't like creativity--they just praise it to keep the kids busy making fridge art rather than playing in traffic.

I have said this before, and here I go again: if (Americans at least) actually valued creativity, "art degree" wouldn't be a punchline.


Art is by no means the only, or perhaps even the best, example of creativity.

Art is great and all but show me an elegant design for something used everyday or show me a novel way of describing how the world actually works. Now that's creativity.
 
2013-12-06 10:41:31 PM
Speaking as someone who has been paid to read scripts, I have to tell you people it doesn't take too many before you become completely numbed by the daily avalanche of crap.  The most trite bullshiat imaginable sparkles when stacked up against the poop Industry people are forced to read all the time.  We're talking 120 pages of dialogue about maintaining putting greens, I shiat you not.
 
2013-12-06 11:19:49 PM
My problem surrounding creativity (for any product/process/idea) is the following:

new and creative != better

People who are creative and propose their newfangled thing, who are then told "your newfangled thing sucks", chalk it up to people "hating on creativity".

When, in fact, it's people hating on shiatty products/processes/ideas.
 
2013-12-06 11:32:51 PM

nickerj1: People who are creative and propose their newfangled thing, who are then told "your newfangled thing sucks", chalk it up to people "hating on creativity".


No, it's actualy people hating on creativity.

The fact that most new ideas do, in fact, suck is beside the point.  Most people who reject new ideas do it because they are new ideas, irrespective of whether they're good or not.  They are not taking the time to analyse the suggestion, and coming to an informed and rational decision that the idea is a bad one.

I mean, some people do do that, but they're not the people we are talking about.
 
2013-12-07 01:08:08 AM

Meez: The box is there for a reason -  search through it once in a while and you are likely to find that somebody else thought of your brilliant idea a long time ago.


Heh, this reminded me of my reading that in 'ye old days' bards and minstrels and such tended to have a 'playbook' of songs & poems for various names and attributes that they'd use depeding on who wanted them.  Katheryn of the fine skin?  Got it.  Also works for a number of other female names.

nickerj1: People who are creative and propose their newfangled thing, who are then told "your newfangled thing sucks", chalk it up to people "hating on creativity".


It's a bit like mutation and evolution.  Better than 99% of fresh ideas suck.
 
2013-12-07 01:34:14 AM

Catlike Typist: I have said this before, and here I go again: if (Americans at least) actually valued creativity, "art degree" wouldn't be a punchline.


Then I must be laughing all the way to the bank.
/"art degree" X2
//graphic design
///on track to beat $70K this year
////nelsonmuntz.jpg
 
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