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(CNN)   Rand Paul has ideas about Detroit, wants ED-209s on every street corner by summertime   (politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com) divider line 84
    More: Interesting, capital gains taxes  
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1501 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 Dec 2013 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-06 09:14:59 AM  
The potential GOP presidential candidate
biltrix.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-06 09:25:16 AM  
oh yeah, eliminating capital gains tax is really going to stimulate the shiat out of detroit
 
2013-12-06 09:26:05 AM  
Tax cuts. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you
 
2013-12-06 09:28:44 AM  
Why do I see his "Economic Freedom Zones" being referred to as "little Somalias" in the near future?
 
2013-12-06 09:29:14 AM  

AngryDragon: Tax cuts. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you


It's GOP outreach. They want to help the poor, by helping the richest among them. "The key to the bill, however, is that only businesses that are seeing success would enjoy the benefits."
 
2013-12-06 09:30:01 AM  
Oh yes, tax cuts for a city in a budget crisis is a brilliant idea. "We can't pay our bills, so let's cut our income!" What a moron.
 
2013-12-06 09:30:21 AM  
This was a farce after the first four words of subby's headline.
 
2013-12-06 09:30:24 AM  
Oh tax cuts for the wealthy, is there anything you can't fix?
 
2013-12-06 09:31:28 AM  

starsrift: AngryDragon: Tax cuts. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you

It's GOP outreach. They want to help the poor, by helping the richest among them. "The key to the bill, however, is that only businesses that are seeing success would enjoy the benefits."


Not so much "picking winners and losers" so much as making the winners winnier and the losers loserier. As explained the second a business stops being "successful" (as many do from time to time), this proposal tosses them an anchor to make it that much harder to claw your way back to solvency?

No farking thanks, Aquabuddha Pubehead.
 
2013-12-06 09:32:47 AM  
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm a libertarian in Congress and I'm here to help.'"

patdollard.com
 
2013-12-06 09:34:00 AM  
In places where the unemployment level is at or greater than 1.5% of the national rate, the Senator wants to create taxes "so low that essentially you're able to bail yourselves out."

This is worded extremely poorly.  I think he means places where the unemployment level is 1.5% or more above the national rate, but I'm not sure.

The way it's currently worded, he wants to create an economic zone for every area with an unemployment rate over 0.11%.
 
2013-12-06 09:35:21 AM  
The bill would reduce income taxes to 5% and eliminate capital gains taxes.

Gonna stop ya there.

No way you are slipping that one in.

Not a chance. Nice try though.
 
2013-12-06 09:35:54 AM  

StopLurkListen: "The most terrifying words in the English language are: 'I'm a libertarian in Congress and I'm here to help.'"

[patdollard.com image 850x610]


I'm a libertarian, fark you; I got mine
 
2013-12-06 09:36:17 AM  
Well, someone has to clean up BOB's mess...

scrappleface.com
 
2013-12-06 09:36:28 AM  

Dr Dreidel: Not so much "picking winners and losers" so much as making the winners winnier and the losers loserier. As explained the second a business stops being "successful" (as many do from time to time), this proposal tosses them an anchor to make it that much harder to claw your way back to solvency?


Isn't this idea like just a big giveaway to Wal-Mart and similar big box stores? Like who does he imagine it's going to help?
 
MFK
2013-12-06 09:37:08 AM  

quatchi: The bill would reduce income taxes to 5% and eliminate capital gains taxes.

Gonna stop ya there.

No way you are slipping that one in.

Not a chance. Nice try though.


what in the actual fark????  REALLY??

www.databreachwatch.org
 
2013-12-06 09:38:26 AM  
The National GOP has so politically boxed themselves in that now all issues must be solved by tax cuts.
 
2013-12-06 09:39:57 AM  
fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net
 
2013-12-06 09:40:03 AM  
obviously the wealthy aren't wealthy enough, otherwise the poor wouldn't be so poor...duh!

just look at all the overseas, tax sheltered wealth all our job creators created with the last round of tax cuts! great things are happening.

these Bangladeshi fire traps don't build themselves after-all.

/how does this 'trickle-down' lie still work on so many people?
 
2013-12-06 09:40:08 AM  
I have a feeling this is going to be one of those issues conservatives are going to think is brilliant, and liberals are going to think is stupid.
 
2013-12-06 09:40:58 AM  
High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.
 
2013-12-06 09:42:21 AM  
GOP asshole with nothing to suggest but the same Reaganoid shiat that's been failing for the last thirty years?
i18.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-06 09:43:29 AM  
Weird way to look at it.  The film industry in my province uses tax credits to attract business, but those credits are generally based on hiring local labour and choosing to shoot in certain locations (The city of Hamilton, for example, gives massive incentives to shoot there).   Basically any taxes that are cut for the production are recouped not only though direct taxation of the crew but also in the increased demand in the community for things like accommodations, car rentals, restaurants, retail outlets, caterers, etc etc.

In this case, it seems like the tax credits would be designed to enrich the business owner and not have as much benefit to the surrounding community as incentivizing hiring would.
 
2013-12-06 09:43:46 AM  
img.fark.net
This makes a lot of sense.  The words are very scary.
 
2013-12-06 09:44:19 AM  
"....he'll introduce a bill next week that would enact what he calls "Economic Freedom Zones," or, as he put it on Fox News, "Enterprise Zones on steroids."


Because it ain't real republican if'n it ain't got the word FREEDOM in it.

--RAND PAUL
 
2013-12-06 09:44:22 AM  

sammyk: The potential GOP presidential candidate
[biltrix.files.wordpress.com image 443x300]


"I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."
--RAND PAUL
 
2013-12-06 09:45:10 AM  

Rapmaster2000: High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.


So can I.  and tax rates are about number 6 on the list of "what killed Detroit"
 
2013-12-06 09:45:46 AM  
"The money will go back to people who the customers have already voted for, businesses that are making a profit," he said on the conference call, saying it makes more sense to fuel growing businesses rather than try to save failing ones.

Yeah, because as we currently see with Walmart, McDonalds or any other business that receives the blessing of our government in terms of public subsidies, the money always ends up going back to the people, even the ones who work for them and are the foundation of said companies!

Reaganomics failed, dipshiat. There is no "trickle-down". Whoever keeps elected these farking inbreds needs to stop.
 
2013-12-06 09:46:12 AM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: I have a feeling this is going to be one of those issues conservatives are going to think is brilliant, and liberals are going to think is stupid.


We should let Rand implement his policies so that all can see the wealth and prosperity that will flow from a TRUE libertarian visionary.

For the first time, libertarian ideals will be put to the test outside of an Ayn Rand book or an internet forum.  I think it's great.
 
2013-12-06 09:47:32 AM  
I'm all for it.  Not the ED-209's, but his actual idea from TFA.  And he's right when he says central planners aren't smart enough to know which entrepreneurs will succeed or which are the best in the business.  Detroit has been working under that belief for years - bail out the failed businesses, pick favorites by the politicians working in conjunction with big businesses (to the point of outright corruption), create government programs that do nothing except waste more taxpayer money.  Detroit has become the poster child of this.  Time to try something different for once and let that ol' fashioned notion of supply and demand take its natural course.
 
2013-12-06 09:48:27 AM  

starsrift: Dr Dreidel: Not so much "picking winners and losers" so much as making the winners winnier and the losers loserier. As explained the second a business stops being "successful" (as many do from time to time), this proposal tosses them an anchor to make it that much harder to claw your way back to solvency?

Isn't this idea like just a big giveaway to Wal-Mart and similar big box stores? Like who does he imagine it's going to help?


Ayup.

Also, the fact that many businesses (especially restaurants and retail outlets) take months or years to turn a profit would make it damn near impossible for a new effort to take off. Not only do the national chains have their largesse as an advantage, they'd be in a tax-preferable situation as well.

Nothing says "libertarianism" like erecting some impenetrable barriers to entry, amirite?

// also, your wording made me think you're Shaggy
// zoinks, yo
 
2013-12-06 09:49:05 AM  
You know, as a liberal I'm not opposed to using the tax code to create incentives and penalties to achieve public policy goals.  If certain targeted tax breaks can demonstrably spur job creation, then super.

I just wish that libertarians like Paul would recognize both sides of the equation.  If tax cuts are valid way of encouraging desired kinds of economic activity, than new taxes are an equally valid way of discouraging undesired kinds (for instance, carbon emissions).

The tax code works both ways.  Cuts aren't the answer to every problem.
 
2013-12-06 09:49:53 AM  

Rapmaster2000: High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.


Liberal Math means wearing the hell out of the TAX + Key and then raising taxes to buy another calculator.

blogs.kansas.com
 
2013-12-06 09:50:45 AM  

A Cave Geek: Rapmaster2000: High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.

So can I.  and tax rates are about number 6 on the list of "what killed Detroit"


On the plus side, when I was a kid all of the conservatives blamed black people for Detroit.  Now they blame unions or "the state run economy".  It's an improvement.

Sure, you still hear "the corrupt government run by THUGS" (wink), but at least they just don't come out and say it anymore.
 
2013-12-06 09:52:10 AM  

Brick-House: Rapmaster2000: High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.

Liberal Math means wearing the hell out of the TAX + Key and then raising taxes to buy another calculator.

[blogs.kansas.com image 400x294]


And then pawning the calculator to buy rims for your pink Cadillac that you drive to the welfare store to pick up money for your $300 children and then using that to buy steak and lobsters at the Safeway while REAL Americans are forced to subsist entirely on a diet of Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew.
 
2013-12-06 09:54:24 AM  

Brick-House: Well, someone has to clean up BOB's mess...

[scrappleface.com image 500x327]


You're so cute. I miss your ridiculousness.
 
2013-12-06 09:55:39 AM  
img.fark.net

Pravda, tovarisch.  Ever since the Great People of Great Detroit's Great Revolution overthrew the oppressive corporate enslavers in Detroit in the 1960s, collectivism marched on, seizing control of companies, private property, and the means of production. Central Committee members intelligently-assigned workers to industries they fit best, and guaranteed employment for life. Private enterprise was outlawed, bankers and venture capitalists were sentenced to gulags in the Yupper. To each according to their needs, from each according to their ability. Truly, Detroit is a model of the state-run economy.
 
2013-12-06 09:55:41 AM  

Deftoons: I'm all for it.  Not the ED-209's, but his actual idea from TFA.  And he's right when he says central planners aren't smart enough to know which entrepreneurs will succeed or which are the best in the business.  Detroit has been working under that belief for years - bail out the failed businesses, pick favorites by the politicians working in conjunction with big businesses (to the point of outright corruption), create government programs that do nothing except waste more taxpayer money.  Detroit has become the poster child of this.  Time to try something different for once and let that ol' fashioned notion of supply and demand take its natural course.


Start by dynamiting the expressway that cuts the town in half, and is what really sent Detroit downhill. You can't fix Detroit till you fix that.
 
2013-12-06 09:56:40 AM  

Rapmaster2000: Brick-House: Rapmaster2000: High taxes are what killed Detroit.  Just like they destroyed Silicon Valley and Seattle.  It's simple business math.   Can you do the business math?  I can do the business math.

Liberal Math means wearing the hell out of the TAX + Key and then raising taxes to buy another calculator.

[blogs.kansas.com image 400x294]

And then pawning the calculator to buy rims for your pink Cadillac that you drive to the welfare store to pick up money for your $300 children and then using that to buy steak and lobsters at the Safeway while REAL Americans are forced to subsist entirely on a diet of Hot Pockets and Mountain Dew.


www.channelguidemagblog.com

EXACTLY!!!
 
2013-12-06 10:00:23 AM  

Triple Oak: Brick-House: Well, someone has to clean up BOB's mess...

[scrappleface.com image 500x327]

You're so cute. I miss your ridiculousness.


Yes, I am cute, but don't let that distract you from the fact that Detroit's Problems are not because of this...

www.calwatchdog.com
 
2013-12-06 10:01:03 AM  
I wonder if there is some equation you could use to calculate how much simpler the world would have to be than it actually is, for the simplistic solutions that flow from child-minds like Rand Paul's to work?
It would have to be a whole lot simpler.
 
2013-12-06 10:02:15 AM  

Brick-House: [fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net image 403x258]



When your city's economy is based primarily around one industry, and that industry moves to another location, your city is going to crumble. It happened to coal towns. It happened to steel towns. It happened to the "Motor City."

There is more auto manufacturing in Louisville, KY than there is in Detroit.
 
2013-12-06 10:02:32 AM  
Economic zone theory isn't terrible. Basically, if one of the main barriers to entry in an area is high taxes then economic zones can be helpful to encourage businesses without taking a huge chunk of tax revenue away that a system wide tax cut would. However there are a number of examples of zones that don't help because taxes weren't the limiting factor. It would have been nice for CNN to actually talk about the value of the program but since this is basically just a reworded press release and nobody tweeted the research it is above CNN's head.

Rand's theory that if a zone doesn't work then then they just need even bigger tax cuts is stupid and based on nothing but his naive view of taxes.
 
2013-12-06 10:02:37 AM  
I could see this working but with one caveat, have a minimum wage required for these businesses operating in these zones to guarantee a percentage of the tax cut actually makes its way to the worker. That is the problem with the GOP's "tax cuts fix everything strategy", because of the greed of the "job creators" none of it actually "trickles down" and goes back into the economy to create wealth.

If it is done the way Rand Paul does, all it will do is siphon what little money is in the hands of the consumer and putting barely any back. What good are jobs if the worker doesn't make enough to make ends meet or pay taxes while qualifying for food stamps? Because that is the type of jobs you get with tax cuts and no guarantee of a living wage.

That or create a worker's union just or jobs in these zones.
 
2013-12-06 10:03:07 AM  

Brick-House: Yes, I am cute, but don't let that distract you from the fact that Detroit's Problems are not because of this...


Damn Obama and his time machine. Does his evil blackness know no bounds?
 
2013-12-06 10:08:02 AM  

Doc Daneeka: In places where the unemployment level is at or greater than 1.5% of the national rate, the Senator wants to create taxes "so low that essentially you're able to bail yourselves out."

This is worded extremely poorly.  I think he means places where the unemployment level is 1.5% or more above the national rate, but I'm not sure.

The way it's currently worded, he wants to create an economic zone for every area with an unemployment rate over 0.11%.


I interpreted that as 1.5 TIMES the national rate---so if the national rate is 6%, then the zones would apply to areas with unemployment rates about 9%.

Not that it matters; Rand Paul's ideas are bad and many people who are MUCH smarter than him have spent much more time trying to think through Detroit's problems.  As someone who lives in SE Michigan (but decidedly not Detroit), Paul's "ideas" aren't new or helpful in any way, and are mostly just half-baked GOP talking points.

This won't do anything to help the city, but it'll sure fire up the GOP base.  As usual, the GOP tries "outreach" to voters, and ends up just saying the same shiat to excite the teabaggers.
 
2013-12-06 10:08:57 AM  

AngryDragon: Tax cuts. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I tell you


Fun Fact:  Detroit has been operating under a "Consent Decree" for the last 4 years.  The City Government could do anything they wanted provided it was in the Consent Decree.  It was authored by the Republican Governor Rick Synder so the Consent Decree required the City lower its taxes.  Guess what?  4 years after Detroit lowered thier taxes, they declared bankruptcy.
 
2013-12-06 10:09:00 AM  
If fixing Detroit was easy, it would have been done by now.
 
2013-12-06 10:09:41 AM  

jso2897: Start by dynamiting the expressway that cuts the town in half, and is what really sent Detroit downhill. You can't fix Detroit till you fix that.


Some of this, for sure.  The government made it REALLY easy to flee the city, and so we shouldn't be surprised that that is what people did.
 
2013-12-06 10:16:21 AM  
ED-209 Copyright Robocop, 1987
 
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