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(Salon)   America's "meat addiction" is having an adverse effect on the planet, increasing carbon emissions and irritating self-righteous vegans   (salon.com) divider line 149
    More: Unlikely, runaway climate change, carbon emissions, overuse of antibiotics, adverse effect, substance dependence, hip replacement surgery  
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2303 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Dec 2013 at 3:08 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 11:02:32 PM
I can already hear your inner monologue - the one saying that such apocalyptic language is irresponsible hyperbole

Actually my inner monologue was wondering why you didn't get a college degree that enabled you to get a useful job instead of whining in polysyllabic dreck for a living.  Math is hard, isn't it!
 
2013-12-05 11:06:39 PM
Also 'apocalypse' means 'revelation'; not necessarily a world-ending event. Just because John of Patmos had an apocalypse of the end of the world does not mean that apocalypse = "end of the world".  You could have an apocalypse of where you left your car keys last night if God were real and helpful.  But then, since you evidently have a liberal arts degree, you should know this, shouldn't you?  Maybe this is an apocalypse that your parents wasted $50,000 on your college degree.
 
2013-12-05 11:44:36 PM
Yeah, but steak tastes good.
 
2013-12-05 11:51:06 PM
vegans are harmless.  it's the self-righteous carnivores who are really annoying.
 
2013-12-05 11:52:16 PM

syrynxx: Also 'apocalypse' means 'revelation'; not necessarily a world-ending event. Just because John of Patmos had an apocalypse of the end of the world does not mean that apocalypse = "end of the world".  You could have an apocalypse of where you left your car keys last night if God were real and helpful.  But then, since you evidently have a liberal arts degree, you should know this, shouldn't you?  Maybe this is an apocalypse that your parents wasted $50,000 on your college degree.


The Masque of Anarchy is one of my favorite poems.
 
2013-12-06 12:16:55 AM
Food and Drug Administration data proves that to produce enough meat to feed America's current demand, the livestock industry is now consuming a whopping four-fifths of all antibiotics used in a given year.

Even if you hate the planet, love chaotic weather patterns, despise animals, live for bacon, or just plain can't stand hippies, eating antibiotics every day is a really bad idea.
 
2013-12-06 12:18:04 AM

Bucky Katt: vegans are harmless.  it's the self-righteous carnivores who are really annoying.



Yeah....I'm going to say no.

Examples:

1)  PETA....can you find a pro-meat group that is even one quarter as annoying?  You can't.

2)  Carnivores don't act all Debbie Downer on Thanksgiving.
 
2013-12-06 12:27:55 AM

syrynxx: Also 'apocalypse' means 'revelation'; not necessarily a world-ending event. Just because John of Patmos had an apocalypse of the end of the world does not mean that apocalypse = "end of the world".  You could have an apocalypse of where you left your car keys last night if God were real and helpful.  But then, since you evidently have a liberal arts degree, you should know this, shouldn't you?  Maybe this is an apocalypse that your parents wasted $50,000 on your college degree.


What did you put in that bong tonight anyway?
 
2013-12-06 12:28:31 AM
up-ship.com

/should read keep being awesome and destroying the planet
 
2013-12-06 01:09:42 AM
I'm OK with that last bit.

In other news, I probably used a wee bit too much olive oil when cooking up my falafels last night.  This morning...omfgwtfbbq i think i broke the toilet. :(
 
2013-12-06 01:12:41 AM
I can almost hear Subby's thought process.

"Hmm ... I can use five words (having an adverse effect on) or just one (hurting). What to do, what to do ..."
 
2013-12-06 01:28:39 AM
So, now revisit your inner monologue. Is it still telling you my vegetarianism is stupid and that my apocalyptic language about meat consumption is overstated?

Yes
 
2013-12-06 03:12:57 AM
According to a report last year by two former World Bank experts, more than half of all carbon emissions come from the livestock industry that supports the meat economy.

Not knowing the difference between carbon that's already in the carbon cycle and extracted fossil fuels is either some third-grade-dropout level science education or just some thermonuclear-grade stupid, there.

Like, the reason I won't be able to help this guy understand why he's being an idiot is because it's been too long since I taught kindergardeners, that's how much fail he managed to fit into one sentence.
 
2013-12-06 03:13:34 AM

The_Sponge: Bucky Katt: vegans are harmless.  it's the self-righteous carnivores who are really annoying.


Yeah....I'm going to say no.

Examples:

1)  PETA....can you find a pro-meat group that is even one quarter as annoying?  You can't.


images.wikia.com
"Why yes.  I am annoying."
 
2013-12-06 03:15:08 AM
To quote the great philosopher Denis Leary, "meat taste likes murder and murder tastes farking awesome."
 
2013-12-06 03:15:29 AM
I don't think I eat much meat. I will usually have 2-3 ounces at lunch, and 2-4 ounces at dinner.

There is likely some dairy/egg in their, too...however this may substitute for meat.
 
2013-12-06 03:16:44 AM

Bucky Katt: vegans are harmless.  it's the self-righteous carnivores who are really annoying.


Yeah, cats are  annoyingly self-righteous.
 
2013-12-06 03:16:55 AM
The problem isn't that America eats too much meat. The problem is that the meat is cheap which is why Americans eat it.

www.pcrm.org

You want people to eat less meat? End bloated meat and dairy subsidies.
 
2013-12-06 03:19:13 AM
theinspirationroom.com
Chipotle scarecrow sighs, goes and feeds its free range pigs.
 
2013-12-06 03:31:42 AM
I used to be a self righteous vegan. I stopped because I entered into a relationship with a non vegan who had kids and it just got too inconvenient/costly to keep eating the way I had been for 2 years. I admire people who are vegan because they reduce overall suffering which I relate to as a sentient being, and because it is environmentally friendly. However, for me to be happy eating as a vegan would cost me over 1000 dollars a year, and when you have to kids in your life and you earn 20k a year throwing around that kind of cash so I can feel morally satisfied feels selfish. Honestly it is also extremely hard for me to resist animal byproduct food when people around me are eating it constantly.

So, my passion in life changed from vegan-ism to helping to raise kids, but as I said I still admire those who donate money to charity, or try to spare suffering of people or animals more-so than is the norm.
 
2013-12-06 03:32:16 AM
People have an adverse affect on the planet so we should ban them. Derp.
 
2013-12-06 03:32:27 AM
Over 1000 dollars a year more than I currently spend on food.
 
2013-12-06 03:33:17 AM
It's the cow farts. Flatulent cows. Pumping tons and tons of methane into the atmosphere. And we should feel bad about it because you know, methane is a greenhouse gas, and the greenhouse effect will cause global warming.
 
2013-12-06 03:35:31 AM
The reduction is 1.5% from 16.5% of caloric intake, to 15% of caloric intake, worldwide, but since Europe and the Americas consume the most meat comparatively, essentially each North American and European needs to eat 2 of any of the following less; hamburger/Chicken Sandwich/pork Sandwich/sausage/bratwursts/rueben sandwiches etc. each week and then everything's much better.

I know, its a lot, not to eat (800 calories a week) but I think most of us can spare it.
 
2013-12-06 03:40:08 AM

Acravius: The reduction is 1.5% from 16.5% of caloric intake, to 15% of caloric intake, worldwide, but since Europe and the Americas consume the most meat comparatively, essentially each North American and European needs to eat 2 of any of the following less; hamburger/Chicken Sandwich/pork Sandwich/sausage/bratwursts/rueben sandwiches etc. each week and then everything's much better.

I know, its a lot, not to eat (800 calories a week) but I think most of us can spare it.


The thing is...why should we?
 
2013-12-06 03:43:46 AM

Gobobo: People have an adverse affect on the planet so we should ban them. Derp.


Seriously. It doesn't really matter WHAT humans eat, it's going to take more energy (and thus more emissions) to feed us and our desires year round than we're ever going to save, barring some kind of insane investment in R&D.

/cynical
 
2013-12-06 03:44:29 AM

Bucky Katt: vegans are harmless.  it's the self-righteous carnivores who are really annoying.


It's the self-righteous anybodies who are annoying.
 
2013-12-06 03:47:42 AM
To keep eating the way we do now and maintain the status quo until 2065, when we start to begin to reduce the population after a peak of 9.5 Billion people.
Otherwise there won't be enough meat on the planet, without resorting to other methodologies of creating meat - like cell propogation and cellular meat printing techniques that we already have started work on.

Unless you would like to be forced into meeting the meat you are eating in the petting zoo out back of your restaurant, a little conservation now will go a long ways to keeping our current food production systems from needing to go to the next level of efficiency, which would probably take a lot of the pleasure out of the eating process.
 
2013-12-06 03:48:53 AM
I got your meat addiction right here.
 
2013-12-06 03:49:42 AM
We should just eat the fat people.
/Two birds, one stone.
 
2013-12-06 03:55:26 AM
Not only do i love my addiction, I consume pretty much everything... heart, brain, face....

When you've stopped spewing gluttonous spawn around the place with wild abandon, you get to preach to me about how my diet is messing with "your" world... until then, put a liver in it...
 
2013-12-06 03:56:10 AM
"Self-righteous" as a phrase has begun to lose all meaning to me, though it is hilarious when used as a pejorative in the context of internet-level debating to begin with.
 
2013-12-06 03:58:15 AM

nulluspixiusdemonica: Not only do i love my addiction, I consume pretty much everything... heart, brain, face....

When you've stopped spewing gluttonous spawn around the place with wild abandon, you get to preach to me about how my diet is messing with "your" world... until then, put a liver in it...


Tell that to China, India, Africa, and the inner cities. Of course, nothing will change, but it'd be a hoot.
 
2013-12-06 03:59:29 AM
@ LadyFortuna,

Only if we continue to do the same stupid stuff we do today.

We could produce all the fish the world needs if we just used 27.5 square miles of the pacific ocean to use the "Open Blue" technology that is now almost 10 years old.
We could reduce the amount of Antibiotics used in farming if we allowed the final 10 days, prior to harvest for cattle to be fed grass instead of corn.

These and more answers would start to allow the impact of humans on the earth to be less burdensome, but we would have to get rid of a lot of 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's notions of what food production means.

Industry, governments and companies have spent more than 100 billion dollars on creating technology to improve the capacity and efficiency of growing food, but it is not being widely adopted. We have a lot to upgrade to be a 21st century country, and a great deal of the country is resisting it due to "tradition".
 
2013-12-06 04:02:40 AM

Acravius: Unless you would like to be forced into meeting the meat you are eating in the petting zoo out back of your restaurant


Hell with the restaurant, I personally fed both the cow we're almost done consuming from our freezer and the chickens we used to get eggs from, before they got taken out by coyotes over their last summer. They weren't mine per se and it wasn't for their entire life span, but it was long enough. I named the cow 'Buddy', as in 'buddy, get the fark out of my way if you want this scoop of grain'. The chickens didn't get names, because I saw the murder in their eyes and vowed it was me or them, and well, I'm still here and they're not.

Not my usual MO for my consumption of meat, granted, but I'm not ashamed of the protein in my diet.
 
2013-12-06 04:06:51 AM

robohobo: nulluspixiusdemonica: Tell that to China, India, Africa, and the inner cities.


Hey now. Africa's making an effort... AIDS, senseless war, famine... Got to give them some credit for effort...

i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-06 04:10:32 AM

Acravius: @ LadyFortuna,

Only if we continue to do the same stupid stuff we do today.

We could produce all the fish the world needs if we just used 27.5 square miles of the pacific ocean to use the "Open Blue" technology that is now almost 10 years old.
We could reduce the amount of Antibiotics used in farming if we allowed the final 10 days, prior to harvest for cattle to be fed grass instead of corn.

These and more answers would start to allow the impact of humans on the earth to be less burdensome, but we would have to get rid of a lot of 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's notions of what food production means.

Industry, governments and companies have spent more than 100 billion dollars on creating technology to improve the capacity and efficiency of growing food, but it is not being widely adopted. We have a lot to upgrade to be a 21st century country, and a great deal of the country is resisting it due to "tradition".


Nothing says tradition like a feedlot or a chicken house full of 2.1 million hens...
 
2013-12-06 04:10:54 AM
Actually most of the world has reduced it's production of "Gluttonous Spawn"

In 1950-1955 the world reproductive rate was 4.95 (doubling roughly every 11.5 years)
In 1980-1985, the world reproductive rate was 3.59 (doubling roughly every 22 years)
Now in 2010-2015 the world reproductive rate is ~2.36 (doubling roughly every 33 years)
In 2065 the world reproductive rate is expected to be 1.8 or so, so we'll have finally peaked out our fertility rate, at around 9.5 Billion people.

So yes it will be a rough ride if we don't make some changes, but the tech is here already to make the neccessary adjustments without giving up our lifestyles too dramatically if we start the process of widescale implementation.
 
2013-12-06 04:11:02 AM

Acravius: To keep eating the way we do now and maintain the status quo until 2065, when we start to begin to reduce the population after a peak of 9.5 Billion people.
Otherwise there won't be enough meat on the planet, without resorting to other methodologies of creating meat - like cell propogation and cellular meat printing techniques that we already have started work on.

Unless you would like to be forced into meeting the meat you are eating in the petting zoo out back of your restaurant, a little conservation now will go a long ways to keeping our current food production systems from needing to go to the next level of efficiency, which would probably take a lot of the pleasure out of the eating process.



You desperately need to take an econ class or two.
 
2013-12-06 04:12:23 AM

nulluspixiusdemonica: robohobo: nulluspixiusdemonica: Tell that to China, India, Africa, and the inner cities.

Hey now. Africa's making an effort... AIDS, senseless war, famine... Got to give them some credit for effort...

[i.imgur.com image 620x455]


Whatever that photo is, it looks farking delicious.
 
2013-12-06 04:13:29 AM
Like most vegans, he has no idea what the root problem with modern industrial agriculture is.   The emissions that come from cows come from the plants which get their food from artificial fertilizer derived from fossil fuels.  The plants are the problem, not the cows.
 
2013-12-06 04:13:34 AM
www.allmotivated.com

/oblig
 
2013-12-06 04:18:57 AM

robohobo: Whatever that photo is, it looks farking delicious.


It's meat... ergo... delicious...

Technically, stuffed lamb heart... which is roughly 5x tastier than kidney....
 
2013-12-06 04:19:58 AM
@ Gryfalcon
Well the numbers are not "traditional" but the idea of rounding up huge herds of cattle and driving them into one location for fattening and sale, is over 140 years old at least in the US, if not longer.
The hen houses and laying houses have gotten more cramped and less hospitable to everything/one involved in the process, but the idea of how to grow and harvest/process the chickens/eggs hasn't really changed all that much since the 1930's

In addition, we haven't done a whole heck of a lot to process the waste into safer/more useful products either, and that technology has been around in some form or another since the 1970's. Most farms simply put it into waste ponds or a big pit and let it gas out/dilute out/run off into lakes and streams.

There is a lot of waste in all of these processes that could help the farmers and the end consumers save a lot of money, but they are not being implemented on a large scale because of "tradition".
 
2013-12-06 04:21:31 AM

nulluspixiusdemonica: robohobo: Whatever that photo is, it looks farking delicious.

It's meat... ergo... delicious...

Technically, stuffed lamb heart... which is roughly 5x tastier than kidney....


Lamb heart? Seriously? It looks appetizing, at any rate, though I'm generally not one for innards.
 
2013-12-06 04:22:55 AM
Cow farts have CO2?  Al Gore will be furious.  Where did the evil cows get that carbon anyway?  Oh, from grass.  Where did the grass get it?  Oh, from the atmosphere.


Seriously, the author of this article must have a brain the size of a baby pea, to fail to understand the difference between a biological cycle and fossil fuels.  I expect his next article to be "if all the rivers keep taking water out to sea - the whole world will dry up!!!"

 Maybe he means more cows are driving these days.  Yeah, that would explain it.

blog.buyandsell.ie
 
2013-12-06 04:23:34 AM

x1v16: I used to be a self righteous vegan. I stopped because I entered into a relationship with a non vegan who had kids and it just got too inconvenient/costly to keep eating the way I had been for 2 years. I admire people who are vegan because they reduce overall suffering which I relate to as a sentient being, and because it is environmentally friendly. However, for me to be happy eating as a vegan would cost me over 1000 dollars a year, and when you have to kids in your life and you earn 20k a year throwing around that kind of cash so I can feel morally satisfied feels selfish. Honestly it is also extremely hard for me to resist animal byproduct food when people around me are eating it constantly.

So, my passion in life changed from vegan-ism to helping to raise kids, but as I said I still admire those who donate money to charity, or try to spare suffering of people or animals more-so than is the norm.


+1

Im not a vegan or anything, but you sound cool.
 
2013-12-06 04:29:54 AM
Don't forget, meat is a four letter word ... just like:

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-06 04:34:27 AM
Acravius:

Industry, governments and companies have spent more than 100 billion dollars on creating technology to improve the capacity and efficiency of growing food, but it is not being widely adopted. We have a lot to upgrade to be a 21st century country, and a great deal of the country is resisting it due to "tradition" high cost of production that your average independent farmer can't afford on top of the tens/hundreds of thousands required for upgraded equipment.

I live in family dairy farm country, son. These guys do not have it easy financially, despite the technology increases. Every time the state* turns around and cuts the price of milk, they get screwed in the end. Some of them have benefited from grants and whatnot, but it doesn't solve all the problems and grants don't last forever. Lordfortuna's relatives are still doing things in the semi-older ways (say, 1980s) but it's because they can't just summon all the money to upgrade, not because they wouldn't like to get it done.


*I'm not an expert on the subject but I've heard enough from people around here that even if I have some details wrong, the general gist of it is accurate. I do know the limits also apply to commercial maple syrup producers.
 
2013-12-06 04:39:03 AM

Acravius: Actually most of the world has reduced it's production of "Gluttonous Spawn"

In 1950-1955 the world reproductive rate was 4.95 (doubling roughly every 11.5 years)
In 1980-1985, the world reproductive rate was 3.59 (doubling roughly every 22 years)
Now in 2010-2015 the world reproductive rate is ~2.36 (doubling roughly every 33 years)
In 2065 the world reproductive rate is expected to be 1.8 or so, so we'll have finally peaked out our fertility rate, at around 9.5 Billion people.


So, what you're saying is, we need yet another Swine Flu epidemic. People will get the vaccine in which 16% of the people astonishingly become sterile?

/We're the government... you can totally trust everything we do and say
 
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