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(The Times of India)   Sure everyone loves this new Pope and his followings of the teaching of Christ versus religious dogma. But I won't be convinced until he does something about sex abuse in the church. Wait...he did what?   (timesofindia.indiatimes.com) divider line 149
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18703 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 5:30 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 04:27:32 PM
Finally I'm not embarrassed that I was raised Catholic.

/reformed now. Atheist.
 
2013-12-05 04:31:56 PM
No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?
 
2013-12-05 04:32:40 PM
You gotta start off with baby steps.
 
2013-12-05 04:33:23 PM
i continue to like this pope. the fact that he's despised by rush limbaugh and sean hannity warms the cockles of my heart.
 
2013-12-05 04:36:21 PM

hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?


That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.
 
2013-12-05 04:42:48 PM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.


Unless you play sports I guess.
 
2013-12-05 04:43:46 PM

hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.


Or work for Haliburton.
 
2013-12-05 04:44:51 PM

hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.


The parallel between Sports and Religion is disturbing, but yes.
 
2013-12-05 05:05:09 PM
The operative word, subby, is "does."  A panel is nice.  Homilies about the spirit of poverty are nice.  Actions speak louder.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy - but I'm not at all convinced that anything will actually change in the Catholic Church.  We've heard it too many times.
 
2013-12-05 05:10:50 PM
Woah. A committee? Wow, they must be taking it seriously.

It shouldn't take any discussion at all to announce that the policy is "we will report any and all accusations of criminal behaviour to the relevant local authorities, and cooperate fully with any investigations which arise".

The only reason that they'd want to convene a committee to "discuss" how to deal with this is so that they can take time looking like they're doing something and then finally come out with some bullshiat which might look nice, but will almost certainly just be another way of protecting the "good" name of the Catholic church
 
2013-12-05 05:26:21 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Woah. A committee? Wow, they must be taking it seriously.


And it's not even a blue ribbon committee.
 
2013-12-05 05:31:01 PM

Diogenes: hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.

Or work for Haliburton.


or are in the armed forces
 
2013-12-05 05:32:46 PM

NickelP: Diogenes: hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.

Or work for Haliburton.

or are in the armed forces


I think the problem there is not the reporting to the right authorities but the follow through by those authorities.
 
2013-12-05 05:33:49 PM
That'sa one crazy Pope!
 
2013-12-05 05:34:09 PM

hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?


If you read what he said, there are a few purposes here.

1.  To find ways to give training to folks to prevent and recognize these cases in the first place, which can reduce the number of victims in the future.

2.  To better work with law enforcement

3. To look into abuses in non western countries (which likely don't have good law enforcement).

I don't see anywhere that says folks shouldn't immedietly go to the police.  The church is going to have to be involved in an investigation though, and they would like to do their best to prevent this stuff in the first place, so how is them setting up a committee to implement changes in this entire thing bad for anyone?
 
2013-12-05 05:34:31 PM
Yes, because committees are known for their ability to get things done.
 
2013-12-05 05:35:30 PM
This is what I get for saying something nice about the guy.

This is a PR gesture and nothing more.

Next time, I'll keep my mouth shut.
 
2013-12-05 05:35:36 PM
Francis is lightening up really nicely.
 
2013-12-05 05:35:39 PM
Are there no dungeons beneath the Vatican?
 
2013-12-05 05:37:11 PM

DammitIForgotMyLogin: Woah. A committee? Wow, they must be taking it seriously.

It shouldn't take any discussion at all to announce that the policy is "we will report any and all accusations of criminal behaviour to the relevant local authorities, and cooperate fully with any investigations which arise".

The only reason that they'd want to convene a committee to "discuss" how to deal with this is so that they can take time looking like they're doing something and then finally come out with some bullshiat which might look nice, but will almost certainly just be another way of protecting the "good" name of the Catholic church


There are also actions for them to take that are not purely reactionary.  Such actions would likely require discussion.  I think there is room for both proper education and preemptive reforms as well as enforcement of actual crimes.
 
2013-12-05 05:37:37 PM

Diogenes: NickelP: Diogenes: hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.

Or work for Haliburton.

or are in the armed forces

I think the problem there is not the reporting to the right authorities but the follow through by those authorities.


I seem to remember some cases where they were complaining that the only people they could report it to where their direct commanding officers, who commonly covered things up, dismissed the complaint, or did no investigation.  Nor where they trained to do any type of investigation.  I am going a bit by memory, but I think that was the main change folks wanted or that happened (i forget which).  By that I mean that there would be an independent sex crimes investigation group that would handle all that stuff instead of the commanding officers of those involved.  I may be wrong though, just going from memory and I didn't follow that one real closely.
 
rpm
2013-12-05 05:37:56 PM

hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?


This. Once those priests start ending up in excommunicated (optional, from my point of view that's purely an internal matter) and in jail, then he's done something. Jailtime for those enabling the shuffling of abusers to different parishes would be a good bonus too.
 
2013-12-05 05:38:21 PM

R.A.Danny: You gotta start off with baby steps.


Pedophile priest with a foot fetish?
 
2013-12-05 05:39:19 PM
GO! POPE! GO!
 
2013-12-05 05:39:34 PM
I say go full Spainish Inquisition on molestors.
 
2013-12-05 05:39:58 PM
The one thing you do when you want to look like your doing something but don't really want to get anything done is set up a committee.

/Read that in a government manual.
 
2013-12-05 05:40:51 PM

Diogenes: DammitIForgotMyLogin: Woah. A committee? Wow, they must be taking it seriously.

And it's not even a blue ribbon committee.


I won't buy it until it's a special, blue ribbon, fact finding commission.  I also wouldn't mind if it included Miss Betty Childs
 
2013-12-05 05:42:17 PM

FlashHarry: warms the cockles of my heart.


"Maybe in the sub-cockles; maybe in the liver, maybe in the kidneys, maybe even... in the colon, we don't know."
 
2013-12-05 05:42:51 PM
It could also propose ways of offering pastoral care to victims of abuse

I'm not sure if I were molested by a priest that I would be real interested in being "comforted" by another priest.
 
2013-12-05 05:44:56 PM
The thing that sealed my love for the pope (atheist raised catholic, realised religion was bs at 12) was him kissing the tumors of a man with neurofibromatosis. This condition affects my family, 2 cousins have it bad, all over their body, (one who had some of the tumors go malignant). My mom has three tumors on her body, and there was a strong chance I would get it. I lucked out and didn't get it.

It is disfiguring, and people who have it look, well scary. But the pope embraced him.

I wish I could believe in god and go back to church if things get even better.
 
2013-12-05 05:46:11 PM
THE TIMES OF INDIA reports this.

I guess you won't see it in any Irish or American paper.....
 
2013-12-05 05:47:10 PM

fusillade762: It could also propose ways of offering pastoral care to victims of abuse

I'm not sure if I were molested by a priest that I would be real interested in being "comforted" by another priest.


that would be the type of thing they'd like to change.  If a kid gets molested by a teacher its not like you don't want the kid to get educated by another teacher (though you can certainly understand the kid's hesitancy to be around them now).  I imagine they want to do the same thing, and continue to offer spiritual guidance and help to victims, and hopefully make other treatments available.
 
2013-12-05 05:47:38 PM
Forming a committee isn't "doing something."

It's what you do when you don't want to actually have to do anything.

They'll make lots of noise about how seriously they take this issue, then 6 months from now, they'll present their finding that "diddling little boys should be frowned upon" to the pope.

He'll take it "under advisement," promise "sweeping change within the church" & then, eventually,  NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.
 
2013-12-05 05:49:15 PM

Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Forming a committee isn't "doing something."

It's what you do when you don't want to actually have to do anything.

They'll make lots of noise about how seriously they take this issue, then 6 months from now, they'll present their finding that "diddling little boys should be frowned upon" to the pope.

He'll take it "under advisement," promise "sweeping change within the church" & then, eventually,  NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.


when that happens you will have a valid gripe.  until then he at at least is making some small step in the right direction.  Arguing they need to go a lot further is legitimate, but I see no reason to dismiss the small step they are taking.
 
2013-12-05 05:49:44 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: The operative word, subby, is "does."  A panel is nice.  Homilies about the spirit of poverty are nice.  Actions speak louder.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy - but I'm not at all convinced that anything will actually change in the Catholic Church.  We've heard it too many times.


Yeah, they'll probably just keep running a bunch of hospitals, schools, and soup kitchens like they've always done.  GAWD.  When will that FINALLY change?
 
2013-12-05 05:49:54 PM
Jesus, I'm starting to think I'd go Gay for the Pope....

And yeah, when the previous administrations denied anything happening at all, and have continued to shuttle off offenders to new parishes, "Forming a committee" is a great first step.
 
2013-12-05 05:50:01 PM
Oh, man.  Now he's really pissed off Rush.
 
2013-12-05 05:51:06 PM
VATICAN CITY: Pope Francis on Thursday formed a committee for child sex abuse in the Catholic Church in a landmark initiative, with many Cardinals hoping that the children would be "toothless".
 
2013-12-05 05:52:29 PM

Diogenes: hervatski: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: hervatski: No one thought to send an email out that says "if a molestation is reported call the cops first. Then your local bishop"?

That's what I would have thought. If any other person sexually violated someone while on the job, the victim wouldn't go to the perp's boss, they'd go to the cops.

Unless you play sports I guess.

Or work for Haliburton.


The Halliburton thing has to do with civil suit, but criminal prosecution.
 
2013-12-05 05:53:15 PM

Rapmaster2000: Oh, man.  Now he's really pissed off Rush.


Now if the Pope took away his illegal prescriptions for painkillers...Rush would be really pissed off.
 
2013-12-05 05:53:45 PM
Well, pretty low bar, but ... OK. I guess i'll give him some props.

/not Catholic
 
2013-12-05 05:54:03 PM
Theaetetus:  with many Cardinals hoping that the children would be "toothless".

Fewer bite marks?
 
2013-12-05 05:56:44 PM

lamecomedian: Benevolent Misanthrope: The operative word, subby, is "does."  A panel is nice.  Homilies about the spirit of poverty are nice.  Actions speak louder.

Don't get me wrong, I like the guy - but I'm not at all convinced that anything will actually change in the Catholic Church.  We've heard it too many times.

Yeah, they'll probably just keep running a bunch of hospitals, schools, and soup kitchens like they've always done.  GAWD.  When will that FINALLY change?


The Vatican doesn't do that stuff.   Catholic Charities != Catholic Church.  They are very careful about keeping themselves legally and administratively separate, so that the Church can get credit for the good work but never be held accountable for any wrongdoing.

If you're going to white knight a bunch of kidfarkers, at least know your stuff before you start.
 
2013-12-05 05:57:34 PM
I have the feeling that a Pope Frank committee is going to be a lot more effective than a Pope Benedict committee.  There are few bureaucracies more entrenched on the planet than the Vatican, so the fact that he's got to adhere to formalities to get something going makes perfect sense.  The priesthood, overall, is filled with honorable men who have devoted their lives to service, but those in power made the decision to choose to protect a small percentage of pedophiles and predators rather than risk the reputation of the Church as "infallible" (a HUGE mis-calculation on their part).  If Pope Frank can pull this off, I'll be back at mass every Sunday from now until Doomesday.
 
2013-12-05 06:00:03 PM
FTA: "But the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), a US campaign group, said the initiative was "meaningless" and just "a toothless church panel", arguing secular authorities should deal with clergy sex crimes."

Oh, SNAP!

/Go, Pope, Go!
 
2013-12-05 06:00:14 PM
I wish this guy was 20 (even 10) years younger.
 
2013-12-05 06:02:03 PM
I got an idea.. Why don't you allow priests to get married, and maybe increase the appeal to the non-sexual predator type.
 
2013-12-05 06:03:25 PM

NickelP: Crass and Jaded Mother Farker: Forming a committee isn't "doing something."

It's what you do when you don't want to actually have to do anything.

They'll make lots of noise about how seriously they take this issue, then 6 months from now, they'll present their finding that "diddling little boys should be frowned upon" to the pope.

He'll take it "under advisement," promise "sweeping change within the church" & then, eventually,  NOTHING WILL HAPPEN.

when that happens you will have a valid gripe.  until then he at at least is making some small step in the right direction.  Arguing they need to go a lot further is legitimate, but I see no reason to dismiss the small step they are taking.


Don't get me wrong. I'd be perfectly happy to see priests quit measuring their altar boy's pant legs.

But, when the Pope starts using the federal government's playbook against society's collective inability to focus...

I mean seriously, do you think anyone is going to wonder what happened to that committee's findings next Summer? He's the Pope. God's voice on earth. Since when does he need a consensus?
 
2013-12-05 06:04:20 PM
Also, FTA: "The scandals - many of them dating back decades - have scarred the Roman Catholic Church worldwide and led to sharp drops in public confidence, including in predominantly Catholic countries like Ireland.  "

Which is why the Church had an O'Malley report it, even if he is American.

Anybody know if it was O'Malley who brought all of this crap to light to begin with?
I seem to remember that being the case,and the article says Boston was the main point of where the controversy was exposed not too long ago...
 
2013-12-05 06:05:05 PM
This calls for immediate discussion!
 
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