If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Opposing Views)   New report explains deaths of 19 firefighters in Arizona blaze this June as result of massive screw-ups. Which is better than an earlier report which basically said everything was fine   (opposingviews.com) divider line 34
    More: Sad, Arizona, Division of Forestry  
•       •       •

4920 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 4:37 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



34 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-05 04:00:31 PM
I fought the fire and the...fire won.
I fought the fire and the...fire won...
 
2013-12-05 04:37:04 PM
 
2013-12-05 04:39:15 PM
I don't need to read any report. All I need to know is how is this Obama's fault!
 
2013-12-05 04:41:12 PM
love the Hot Gallery of the Day bit
 
2013-12-05 04:42:34 PM

ongbok: I don't need to read any report. All I need to know is how is this Obama's fault!


does it really matter HOW, when it IS?
 
2013-12-05 04:44:21 PM
So $25,000 is what a life is worth.  Nice.
 
2013-12-05 04:47:49 PM
The new report found "multiple instances of firefighters being unnecessarily and unreasonably exposed to the deadly hazards of wildland firefighting."

Additionally, the mayor stated they had a fire right outside the city limits. The local volunteer fire department was sent out to fight the fire on the very first day. They weren't equipped to fight a small less than one acre fire.

If you aren't going to have a fire department that can fight small fires right outside your town, then don't expect others to come in and die for your private and public property.

I'm sorry for all the human lives lost but this putting people at risk because others don't want to pay taxes to protect their own property is killing people. It's not worth the cost.
 
2013-12-05 04:50:53 PM
...as result of massive screw-ups. Which is better than an earlier report which basically said everything was fine


So for the Forestry folks... this was their Benghazi


/Benghazi!!
 
2013-12-05 04:51:38 PM
It's an "opposing view" so it must be true!
 
GBB
2013-12-05 04:54:20 PM

bikerbob59: So $25,000 is what a life is worth.  Nice.


The fine goes to whatever authority has jurisdiction over the Division of Forestry, not to the victims.
 
2013-12-05 04:55:54 PM
Outdoor Magazine just ran an article about the last moments of the 19 firefighters. It is scary how fast the situation changed and the hopelessness of being caught the way those firefighters were.

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/nature/YarnellFire.ht ml
 
2013-12-05 04:57:32 PM

enik: It's an "opposing view" so it must be true!


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/us/arizona-agency-faulted-in-death -o f-firefighters.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=1&

"PHOENIX - A state safety commission recommended fines totaling $559,000 against the Arizona State Forestry Division on Wednesday, saying the agency wrongly put the protection of "structures and pastureland" ahead of the safety of firefighters battling a wildfire in central Arizona last summer, including 19 who died trapped by the flames at the base of a mountain."

All that took was one extra click.
 
2013-12-05 05:19:39 PM
I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.
 
2013-12-05 05:20:08 PM
FTFA:  The 2,000-degree heat made the blaze that swept over their deployment site "not survivable," the report said.

Damn. That's quite an understatement.
 
2013-12-05 05:21:11 PM
And where was Sherriff Joe during all of this?
 
2013-12-05 05:28:53 PM
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE?" H.C.
 
2013-12-05 05:47:30 PM

fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.


It was?
 
2013-12-05 05:52:37 PM
This is pretty much more or less what I've been hearing the first time, what's new here? I already knew that there was poor communication, they were tired, they weren't deployed right, and due to general farked-up-ness, they were in a shiatty place when the fire turned, and they had no time. Was I psychic, or has this already pretty much been covered?
 
2013-12-05 05:57:13 PM
 
2013-12-05 06:02:28 PM

fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.

It was?

The U.S. Forest Service's $2 billion firefighting budget, the government's mainstay against wildfires, has been whittled by 5 percent. Agency officials said that has meant 500 fewer firefighters and 50 fewer fire engines than last year.

The Interior Department's $832 million firefighting program was pared by $37.5 million, savings it is achieving by filling 100 fewer seasonal firefighting positions and eliminating other jobs as well, officials said.


Uh huh.

Did you know that the Granite Mountain Hotshots were a municipal crew, chartered and funded by the city of Prescott?
 
2013-12-05 06:14:21 PM

JesseL: fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.

It was?

The U.S. Forest Service's $2 billion firefighting budget, the government's mainstay against wildfires, has been whittled by 5 percent. Agency officials said that has meant 500 fewer firefighters and 50 fewer fire engines than last year.

The Interior Department's $832 million firefighting program was pared by $37.5 million, savings it is achieving by filling 100 fewer seasonal firefighting positions and eliminating other jobs as well, officials said.

Uh huh.

Did you know that the Granite Mountain Hotshots were a municipal crew, chartered and funded by the city of Prescott?


And they don't use ANY federal funding or equipment?

The tragedy of the Granite Mountain Hotshots has renewed attention to the dwindling federal resources to fight a growing number of forest fires, even though an independent investigation found no one to blame in the deaths of 19 Arizona wildland firefighters last June.

It will never be known if greater availability of large airtankers contracted by the U.S. Forest Service would have saved their lives, but the tragedy put on public display a system where incident commanders overseeing even large fires have to beg for planes to drop retardant.
 
2013-12-05 06:21:40 PM

fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.

It was?

The U.S. Forest Service's $2 billion firefighting budget, the government's mainstay against wildfires, has been whittled by 5 percent. Agency officials said that has meant 500 fewer firefighters and 50 fewer fire engines than last year.

The Interior Department's $832 million firefighting program was pared by $37.5 million, savings it is achieving by filling 100 fewer seasonal firefighting positions and eliminating other jobs as well, officials said.

Uh huh.

Did you know that the Granite Mountain Hotshots were a municipal crew, chartered and funded by the city of Prescott?

And they don't use ANY federal funding or equipment?

The tragedy of the Granite Mountain Hotshots has renewed attention to the dwindling federal resources to fight a growing number of forest fires, even though an independent investigation found no one to blame in the deaths of 19 Arizona wildland firefighters last June.

It will never be known if greater availability of large airtankers contracted by the U.S. Forest Service would have saved their lives, but the tragedy put on public display a system where incident commanders overseeing even large fires have to beg for planes to drop retardant.


The point of an interagency hotshot crew is that they work together with other crews and assets from all over the place. More air support would certainly have been a benefit to them.

The point I was making is that their budget wasn't cut to the bone.
 
2013-12-05 06:23:16 PM

enik: It's an "opposing view" so it must be true!


I like the cut of your sarcasm ..
 
2013-12-05 06:25:55 PM
You know who else valued property over people?

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-05 06:26:00 PM
" the state's Division of Occupational Safety and Health, which issued citations to the forestry division of $25,000 per firefighter killed in the inferno, as well as other fines that bring the total penalty to $559,000, the largest ever issued by the safety and health agency. "

How can taking 1/2 million away from them in any way make them MORE effective? All it means is they'll be forced to lay off more figherfighters.
 
2013-12-05 06:35:24 PM
Give me a farking break. They're wild land firefighters, they knew the risks involved in combating forest fires. How is it anyone's fault that they were killed by a force of nature?
 
2013-12-05 06:47:01 PM

fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.

It was?

The U.S. Forest Service's $2 billion firefighting budget, the government's mainstay against wildfires, has been whittled by 5 percent. Agency officials said that has meant 500 fewer firefighters and 50 fewer fire engines than last year.

The Interior Department's $832 million firefighting program was pared by $37.5 million, savings it is achieving by filling 100 fewer seasonal firefighting positions and eliminating other jobs as well, officials said.


"to the bone" indeed. lol
 
2013-12-05 06:58:23 PM

umad: fusillade762: JesseL: fusillade762: I'm sure having their funding cut to the bone had nothing to do with it.

It was?

The U.S. Forest Service's $2 billion firefighting budget, the government's mainstay against wildfires, has been whittled by 5 percent. Agency officials said that has meant 500 fewer firefighters and 50 fewer fire engines than last year.

The Interior Department's $832 million firefighting program was pared by $37.5 million, savings it is achieving by filling 100 fewer seasonal firefighting positions and eliminating other jobs as well, officials said.

"to the bone" indeed. lol


OK, I may have overstated the case, but I'm sure it didn't help.
 
2013-12-05 07:51:35 PM

Rustblade: Give me a farking break. They're wild land firefighters, they knew the risks involved in combating forest fires. How is it anyone's fault that they were killed by a force of nature?


Because being that this is America, it has to be somebody's fault. It's just not allowable that they were out doing a risky job in a risky location under risky conditions and died, and NOBODY was culpable. So we'll dig around and find a way that someone can be held liable, even if that means that they're basically saying "Firefighters doing their job is too dangerous and needs to be stopped."
 
2013-12-05 08:04:03 PM

Rustblade: Give me a farking break. They're wild land firefighters, they knew the risks involved in combating forest fires. How is it anyone's fault that they were killed by a force of nature?


I suspect you're trolling but for example:

It's the job of soldiers to go into harms way and fight battles and wars. However it is negligent to send under equipped soldiers into battle with little to no support.
The negligence was in the support and command of these folks, not the job they do.
 
2013-12-05 08:58:33 PM
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qomNoN7MCYg&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqomN oN7MCYg

Good song about a similar fire in '49. It will stay with you.
 
DVD
2013-12-05 09:22:26 PM
There are those in power that would agree with you, that readily send soldiers to fight even though they've been denied proper training and equipment to do the job in a survivable manner.  "It was their job" ... to have every chance of surviving cut out from under them when normally the job would have been much less dangerous?


Gyrfalcon: Rustblade: Give me a farking break. They're wild land firefighters, they knew the risks involved in combating forest fires. How is it anyone's fault that they were killed by a force of nature?

Because being that this is America, it has to be somebody's fault. It's just not allowable that they were out doing a risky job in a risky location under risky conditions and died, and NOBODY was culpable. So we'll dig around and find a way that someone can be held liable, even if that means that they're basically saying "Firefighters doing their job is too dangerous and needs to be stopped."

 
2013-12-05 09:44:14 PM
Smelly Pirate Hooker

FTFA:  The 2,000-degree heat made the blaze that swept over their deployment site "not survivable," the report said.

Here's what that looks like (different fuel but similar radiant heat flux)

Notice how fast it's over.
 
2013-12-06 01:52:42 AM

Rustblade: Give me a farking break. They're wild land firefighters, they knew the risks involved in combating forest fires. How is it anyone's fault that they were killed by a force of nature?


I'm sure their families and fellow firefighters will find much solace in your kind words.
 
Displayed 34 of 34 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report