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(Slate)   It looks like Katie Couric is the latest addition to the anti-vaxxer idiot brigade   (slate.com) divider line 216
    More: Dumbass, Katie Couric, Amanda Marcotte, Double X, brigades, AlterNet, HPV Vaccine, CBS Evening News, Dr. Andrew Wakefield  
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10147 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 12:13 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 02:09:31 PM

meintx2001: jrodr018: meintx2001: Stop with the herd immunity crap.  If you don't take the vaccine for what ever reason, don't force others to take it to protect you.  It should be their decision.  As for all of the "vaccines are safe, you're just stupid" crowd, every medication given in the US is deemed safe.  But then how many are recalled later when it is determined that they aren't safe?  And how many people suffer and die during that process?

Better yet, if you can't take the vaccine stay away from everyone else.

I cannot for the life of me remember a single medication, especially a vaccine, that has been determined as "safe". All medications have risked associated with them (however infinitesimal), but I am sure you knew that.

Yes, Thank you.  What I was referring to was that while ALL meds in the US pass FDA and are CONSIDERED safe, they are not always.  And yes, I know there are risks.  There are risks to everything.  That was directed at the people that claim that vaccines are not dangerous or deadly.  For some they may be dangerous or deadly.  So if someone doesn't want to take that risk they should not be forced to.


Most people don't claim that vaccines have no potential harmful side effects.  However, all sane, rational people agree that the benefits of vaccines vastly outweigh the potential negatives.  You want to benefit from herd immunity but not take the (incredibly small) risk yourself.  Go live in a cave somewhere.
 
2013-12-05 02:10:52 PM
 
2013-12-05 02:11:28 PM

IRQ12: chairmenmeow47: IRQ12: Who heard of HPV before the vaccination came out?

you sound male

you sound Merk


community.us.playstation.com
 
2013-12-05 02:13:13 PM

spidermilk: T.rex: Egoy3k: More like she opened her wallet and pandered.  Not really the same thing, just as shiatty to be sure, but not the same.

Are you kidding.... There's no money to be had to be anti-Big Pharma.... You got that backwards.

I agree with you BUT I would say about 50% of the age 20-30 mothers I know have voiced their concern about vaccines. And by concern I don't mean that they are reviewing appropriate literature or talking to an immune specialist. I mean they are forwarding quack websites to each other and re-posting that kid who's mother claims he died from the flu vaccine.

If you have an afternoon talk show you probably want these mommies to get interested. It is easier for Katie to come on her show and try to scare them into not vaccinating than it is for her to be an actual journalist and possibly offend (or educate) them.

Luckily, most of the above mentioned 20-30 year old mothers I know don't care enough (apparently) to refuse mandatory vaccines. So, they think that the flu vaccine might kill their child, but they don't actually care enough to fill out some paper work and refuse a vaccine (apparently). I know one chick who works in a hospital and although she firmly believes the flu shot could kill you and always gives you the flu, SHE STILL GETS ONE since she would lose her job otherwise. Clearly, if you really thought this had a reasonable chance of killing you wouldn't you be willing to lose your job?


A good number of pediatricians will fire patients who refuse to vaccinate.  You can always find one who won't, but it takes some extra work beyond signing forms, which is why those doctors do it - they don't want to enable anti-vaxxers.

Now, I do happen to think that getting everything in the world on the same day is a bad idea, and the CDC recommended timelines are actually flexible enough to avoid that, but pediatricians are in the habit of lumping them together because it can be hard to get people to come back in over and over again.  Unfortunately, the anti-vaxxers have made it hard to ask for a non-standard (but still within recommended guidelines) vaccination schedule without sounding a little like one of those crazies.
 
2013-12-05 02:13:50 PM

JacobDavidWatson: She's just talking about the HPV vaccine, not all vaccines.. I didn't really read the article thnough.  HPV... most chicks will have it one day, and at worst it causes cancer when we are old.  Not talking this vaccine won't have dire Darwinian consequences im afraid..

This vaccine is only for chicks right?


if you consider teens to mid 20's* "Old", HPV also causes throat and rectal cancer, and the vaccine is recommend for males due to the potential for rectal and penile cancers from HPV.

*ex-SIL had a hysterctomy at 27 due to invasive cervical cancer, and best friend contracted it from a sexual assault and had cryo-surgery at age 26 to remove the cancer.
 
2013-12-05 02:13:54 PM
Katie was a year behind me at Yorktown HS.

/i'd inoculate it
 
2013-12-05 02:14:46 PM
I'm glad she has decided to go a little natural.  Oh,  vaxxer!
 
2013-12-05 02:22:52 PM

skozlaw: IRQ12: chairmenmeow47: IRQ12: Who heard of HPV before the vaccination came out?

you sound male

you sound Merk

[community.us.playstation.com image 400x300]


When it comes to the pharmaceutical companies and their reps and lobby you bet your ass.  Naw, you all well informed people are right, this extremely expensive vaccine found its way into legislation across america because HPV was an epidemic.  I forgot about the nightly news reports about it.

I'm not saying it's not effective or some gubberment conspiracy, it's just big pharm working its magic.
 
2013-12-05 02:23:25 PM
I should have been more clear in my earlier posts, a9malend I would like to clear up some misinformation that I see in this thread. HPV is not a female only issue.  I (younger male) was diagnosed with Squamous Cell Carcinoma of the tonsil and base of tongue last month.

I had no symptoms whatsoever with the exception of a swollen lymph node.  It swelled up on me over night.  I was told by my PCP that it could be anything and not to worry too much.  He put me on Antibiotics which didn't touch it. I came back 6 days later, he sent me to an ENT who scoped my neck and found nothing. He sent me for some blood tests, which came out fine, and put me on a different round of antibiotics.  This didn't make the node reduce, so he took a Fine Needle Biopsy, which came up suspicious for SCC.  I then went to MRI, no tumor found.  I had a biopsy of the tonsil done, came back negative. Finally had a PET scan which showed uptake on the right tonsil and the BoT and the Lymph node. 2 days later I had a tonsillectomy and pathology came back positive for cancer.

Since then I have been to about 25 doctor visits.  This week I had 2 surgeries, I have had a MediPort put in, and a stomach tube.  My course will be 35 radiation treatments and 7 chemo treatments.   These may or may not completely destroy my salivary glands.   And for about 10 weeks my throat will hurt so badly that I will likely only be able to receive nutrition thru a tube that hangs out of my gut.

And if that doesn't get any Farkers attn this will: I will lose my taste buds for up to a year, and worst of all no more beer for about 3-4 months.

Everyone should get their children vaccinated both male and female.
 
2013-12-05 02:23:32 PM
After seeing this, I'm definitely an anti-vvaxxer.
www.kidfreeliving.com
 
2013-12-05 02:30:08 PM

ladodger34: Cletus C.: ladodger34: My friend's sister is an RN and an anti-vaxxer (she married an idiot and she listens to him). She was ranting and raving on FB the other day that about how hospitals treat nurses that don't get the flu vaccine and how she was lucky that her hospital only made her wear a mask.

I told her brother (my closest and bestest friend) that I really appreciated her FB rant. If my 2 youngest ever happen to visit a hospital and they are treated with a nurse in a mask, I will respectfully ask for another. I have to assume that a nurse in a mask is an anti-vaxxer and I can't have him/her around my kids with asthma.

//rant hit home because we spent the night in the ER with baby girl (9 mo. old) a week or two before it was posted.
///friend's sister is farking hot. She could have her choice of men, but she married her idiot husband.

Is there more information you could provide on your friend's sister's hotness? What makes her hot? Pouty lips, large breasts, long legs, hips that swivel their way into a room? You gave a lot of detail otherwise, but this area is somewhat lacking.

Tall and well proportioned (5'8 ish), raven hair, fake boobs, beautiful face, curvy hips, olive skin. No sharp knees. A real stunner.


Oh my. Ask her to slip into her nurse's outfit and meet me at my cabana, where I have some anti-vaccine literature I'd like to go over with her. I also have some interesting theories on fluoride that should set the mood just right.
 
2013-12-05 02:32:43 PM

scut207: cancer sucks balls


What a wretched ordeal. You have my sympathy.
You also have my admiration, for speaking out about your illness to enlighten others.
 
2013-12-05 02:36:25 PM

IRQ12: skozlaw: IRQ12: chairmenmeow47: IRQ12: Who heard of HPV before the vaccination came out?

you sound male

you sound Merk

[community.us.playstation.com image 400x300]

When it comes to the pharmaceutical companies and their reps and lobby you bet your ass.  Naw, you all well informed people are right, this extremely expensive vaccine found its way into legislation across america because HPV was an epidemic.  I forgot about the nightly news reports about it.

I'm not saying it's not effective or some gubberment conspiracy, it's just big pharm working its magic.


when i announced to about ten of my girlfriends that i had a colposcopy (biopsy for HPV removal), every single women the room had already had one too.  i say you sound male because when you talk to women, pretty much every woman you speak to that has ever been tested has had it.  we just don't announce it on the nightly news.
 
2013-12-05 02:38:29 PM

IRQ12: skozlaw: IRQ12: chairmenmeow47: IRQ12: Who heard of HPV before the vaccination came out?

you sound male

you sound Merk

[community.us.playstation.com image 400x300]

When it comes to the pharmaceutical companies and their reps and lobby you bet your ass.  Naw, you all well informed people are right, this extremely expensive vaccine found its way into legislation across america because HPV was an epidemic.  I forgot about the nightly news reports about it.

I'm not saying it's not effective or some gubberment conspiracy, it's just big pharm working its magic.


I'm pretty sure there's more money to be made by charging people tens of thousands of dollars to treat cancer, instead of charging them a few bucks for a shot.
 
2013-12-05 02:40:14 PM

IRQ12: ...this extremely expensive vaccine found its way into legislation across america because HPV was an epidemic. I forgot about the nightly news reports about it.


The most amusing part of your ongoing derpfest is that you're talking about the single most commonly transmitted STD in the U.S. and one which is so prevalent that most sexually-active people in the country will contract it at least once in their lifetime.
 
2013-12-05 02:41:28 PM

exvaxman: My daughter was killed by the pertussis vaccine. Going through the VAERS act as we had to do, it took years due to the political issues to get a settlement. The most obvious was "we have not heard a recent health issue" from the government. The reply of our lawyer (who helped write the VAERS act) stripped the government lawyer of her ability to be a lawyer ever again. Something like he had sent a death certificate and two years later she requested a status update.

My kid has everything but the pertussis vaccine right now.


While I sympathize with your loss, it was people  not vaccinating their children that gave my son pertussis. He had mild jaundice when he was born so, after he was released from the hospital, we took him to his pediatrician for a followup. He was 7 weeks old, one week too soon for the vaccination. One of the families in the waiting room had a kid with a cough which turned out to be pertussis. Our pediatrician told us that the mother was anti-vax because of some story she saw on a talk show (Donahue or Gerlado at the time). As a result my son got sick.

He was hospitalized for two weeks. He'd cough until his throat was raw, he'd stop breathing until he turned blue, he became dehydrated and had to be put on an IV. My wife and I slept in his hospital room, worried sick. My grandmother was terrified because her first child had died from whooping cough.

Even after he was released we had to keep him on a portable apnea monitor for an additional month just in case. He developed asthma and is prone to bronchitis because of what the disease did to his lungs.

While some small percentage of the population might have a negative reaction to a vaccine (hell, every medication runs at least a small risk) that is no reason to put the rest of us at risk.
 
2013-12-05 02:49:53 PM
You're right to free speech ends when it endangers the public.  These people should be arrested and put in prison until the public threat they create is gone.
 
2013-12-05 02:53:28 PM
To be fair, the VAX is over 20 years old and you can get a better computer for a lot less.
 
2013-12-05 02:54:21 PM

Carn: jrodr018: meintx2001: Stop with the herd immunity crap.  If you don't take the vaccine for what ever reason, don't force others to take it to protect you.  It should be their decision.  As for all of the "vaccines are safe, you're just stupid" crowd, every medication given in the US is deemed safe.  But then how many are recalled later when it is determined that they aren't safe?  And how many people suffer and die during that process?

Better yet, if you can't take the vaccine stay away from everyone else.

I cannot for the life of me remember a single medication, especially a vaccine, that has been determined as "safe". All medications have risked associated with them (however infinitesimal), but I am sure you knew that.

Anyone who argues against vaccines is a complete idiot.  If they are shown to cause autism, which is a lie, we are still better off with vaccines and the disease immunity they bring.  If they are shown to cause peanut allergies, and that sounds like bullshiat too, we are still better off with vaccines and the disease immunity they bring.  If there truly is some kind of connection found between vaccines and these sorts of side effects, then we should absolutely come up with a vaccine that doesn't do this.  Until then, get your vaccines on the recommended schedule and don't be a twat.

Texas measles outbreak

And the problem with the "I do what I want!" argument, is that the problem with herd immunity or lack thereof, sometimes results in the deaths of others.

Texas is also currently dealing with another wave of pertussis (whooping cough) outbreaks.  The problem with this is they can't vaccinate the babies until they are two months old, and they are also the most likely to die from it.

"From 2000-2012, a total of 43 deaths were attributed to pertussis in Texas.  Most of the deaths occurred in infants under 1 year of age--most in children too young to be vaccinated. In 2013, two deaths have been reported thus far. Both of the deaths occurred in ch ...


I am not sure if I made my point clear; I am arguing that there are no "safe vaccines", we use them because the risk they present is much smaller (hence my use of the word infinitesimal) than the disease the vaccine is trying to protect you from. And that is true of any vaccines or medications available. Yes, non-vaccination is stupid. That's what I get for typing right before a meeting.
 
2013-12-05 02:56:45 PM

meintx2001: jrodr018: meintx2001: Stop with the herd immunity crap.  If you don't take the vaccine for what ever reason, don't force others to take it to protect you.  It should be their decision.  As for all of the "vaccines are safe, you're just stupid" crowd, every medication given in the US is deemed safe.  But then how many are recalled later when it is determined that they aren't safe?  And how many people suffer and die during that process?

Better yet, if you can't take the vaccine stay away from everyone else.

I cannot for the life of me remember a single medication, especially a vaccine, that has been determined as "safe". All medications have risked associated with them (however infinitesimal), but I am sure you knew that.

Yes, Thank you.  What I was referring to was that while ALL meds in the US pass FDA and are CONSIDERED safe, they are not always.  And yes, I know there are risks.  There are risks to everything.  That was directed at the people that claim that vaccines are not dangerous or deadly.  For some they may be dangerous or deadly.  So if someone doesn't want to take that risk they should not be forced to.


I guess we need to let stupid people who cannot weigh risks versus rewards bring down civilization. That's a noble way to go, I guess.
 
2013-12-05 02:57:54 PM

exvaxman: My daughter was killed by the pertussis vaccine.


There are few times when Farkers etc. he sits atop my piano.
 
2013-12-05 03:01:17 PM

jrodr018: I am not sure if I made my point clear; I am arguing that there are no "safe vaccines", we use them because the risk they present is much smaller (hence my use of the word infinitesimal) than the disease the vaccine is trying to protect you from. And that is true of any vaccines or medications available. Yes, non-vaccination is stupid. That's what I get for typing right before a meeting.


Nope, I got ya, I was adding on to your comment.  I guess mine was more directed at the other commenter.
 
2013-12-05 03:08:28 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Vaccines are harmless


I thought "Big vaccine" (or Big Pharma) would not let this information be out there. Or could it be that vaccines, like every man-made product, is subject to failure, so these companies have the obligation to remunerate the consumer if it is indeed a faulty product?


Nope, it is a conspiracy.
 
2013-12-05 03:13:09 PM

Ex-Texan: Let their kids contract diseases easily prevented by vaccines, then place the burden of care on the parents.. Teh Bible is not an approved method of treatment.


Ummm.
Except that if these kids get it, it also allows for those who are vaccinated to get it, via mutation. Or those who cannot get it due to allergies/immuno-deficiency diseases.

JacobDavidWatson: She's just talking about the HPV vaccine, not all vaccines.. I didn't really read the article thnough.  HPV... most chicks will have it one day, and at worst it causes cancer when we are old.  Not talking this vaccine won't have dire Darwinian consequences im afraid..

This vaccine is only for chicks right?


No. Guys can (AND SHOULD) get it too, as they transmit it to the females in the first place. And hello, possible cause for prostate cancer? Anyone know of research regarding that?
 
2013-12-05 03:17:23 PM

exvaxman: My daughter was killed by the pertussis vaccine. Going through the VAERS act as we had to do, it took years due to the political issues to get a settlement. The most obvious was "we have not heard a recent health issue" from the government. The reply of our lawyer (who helped write the VAERS act) stripped the government lawyer of her ability to be a lawyer ever again. Something like he had sent a death certificate and two years later she requested a status update.

My kid has everything but the pertussis vaccine right now.


O_O :( My heart, it goes out to you.
 Personally I think that adults only should be vaccinated for this one(they're the biggest carriers), and that the current regimen just seems to be getting faster and faster.
But thankfully, you know the value of immunization in general, and of questioning the status quo in the scientific community. Thank you for your hard work.
 
2013-12-05 03:17:51 PM

IRQ12: skozlaw: IRQ12: chairmenmeow47: IRQ12: Who heard of HPV before the vaccination came out?

you sound male

you sound Merk

[community.us.playstation.com image 400x300]

When it comes to the pharmaceutical companies and their reps and lobby you bet your ass.  Naw, you all well informed people are right, this extremely expensive vaccine found its way into legislation across america because HPV was an epidemic.  I forgot about the nightly news reports about it.

I'm not saying it's not effective or some gubberment conspiracy, it's just big pharm working its magic.


No kidding!  Imagine all the money that must be pouring into the CDC for pushing their HPV agenda...

http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/hpv/statistics/cases.htm
 
2013-12-05 03:18:38 PM

Clemkadidlefark: Vaccines are harmless


Oh shut up, you cock.

First off, you CAN sue pharmaceutical manufacturers in civil court for vaccine-related injury claims. However, the burden of proof is FAR LESS in the vaccine court than it is in a civil court setting, which adheres to standard legal definitions of scientific evidence. In addition, the vaccine court pays out injury claims for life, not a lump monetary sum, and includes remuneration for cost of treatments down the road.

Secondly, in the history of the vaccine court's existence, they have paid out less than a thousand times even with that decreased standard of evidence, for legitimate vaccine injuries. No case brought before them of a claim of "autism" from a vaccine has ever held up to scientific or medical scrutiny. Strangely, these people have NOT brought their claims to a civil court, which should leave you asking "Why?", especially when there is MAJOR MONEY backing the anti-vaccine movement.

Third, no one has ever said vaccines are harmless - except for you. Vaccines DO have risks, which are minuscule in most people. Those risks are VERY MUCH LESS than the risk of disability or death from vaccine preventable disease.
 
2013-12-05 03:20:27 PM
Annnnnd... Marissa Mayer to flick her like a green klingon.
 
2013-12-05 03:23:38 PM

scubamage: Inchoate: JacobDavidWatson: She's just talking about the HPV vaccine, not all vaccines.. I didn't really read the article thnough.  HPV... most chicks will have it one day, and at worst it causes cancer when we are old.  Not talking this vaccine won't have dire Darwinian consequences im afraid..

This vaccine is only for chicks right?

HPV affects men also, and there are increasing calls for the vaccine to be administered and promoted for both sexes.

Really? I hadn't heard that. HPV in men is weird because there is no actual test to determine if it is present, unless you have physical lesions (which of course only appear in strains which don't cause cancer, so that's a non-starter).


Well... shiat?
 
2013-12-05 03:24:43 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: spidermilk: T.rex: Egoy3k: More like she opened her wallet and pandered.  Not really the same thing, just as shiatty to be sure, but not the same.

Are you kidding.... There's no money to be had to be anti-Big Pharma.... You got that backwards.

I agree with you BUT I would say about 50% of the age 20-30 mothers I know have voiced their concern about vaccines. And by concern I don't mean that they are reviewing appropriate literature or talking to an immune specialist. I mean they are forwarding quack websites to each other and re-posting that kid who's mother claims he died from the flu vaccine.

If you have an afternoon talk show you probably want these mommies to get interested. It is easier for Katie to come on her show and try to scare them into not vaccinating than it is for her to be an actual journalist and possibly offend (or educate) them.

Luckily, most of the above mentioned 20-30 year old mothers I know don't care enough (apparently) to refuse mandatory vaccines. So, they think that the flu vaccine might kill their child, but they don't actually care enough to fill out some paper work and refuse a vaccine (apparently). I know one chick who works in a hospital and although she firmly believes the flu shot could kill you and always gives you the flu, SHE STILL GETS ONE since she would lose her job otherwise. Clearly, if you really thought this had a reasonable chance of killing you wouldn't you be willing to lose your job?

A good number of pediatricians will fire patients who refuse to vaccinate.  You can always find one who won't, but it takes some extra work beyond signing forms, which is why those doctors do it - they don't want to enable anti-vaxxers.

Now, I do happen to think that getting everything in the world on the same day is a bad idea, and the CDC recommended timelines are actually flexible enough to avoid that, but pediatricians are in the habit of lumping them together because it can be hard to get people to come back in over and over agai ...


Not entirely sure why you think they should be spread out? Do you realize how many things you body comes into contact with daily, how many thousands of critters? A few more won't matter when your body sees over a thousand new antigens a day:  http://www2.aap.org/immunization/families/toomany.html
 
2013-12-05 03:27:07 PM
Ever read some of these articles, then lean back, pinch your nose right between your eyes where eyeglasses sit and wait for your brain to stop banging around in your head over the abject stupidity displayed?

One of the side effects of our 'new' technology is that the Lunatic Fringe comes out in force and some of them would make excellent political and propaganda writers, being marvelous at distorting the truth, obscuring facts, making it look like throwing common sense out the window is smart and stringing together half truths to make them seem like cold, hard facts.

We have technology real close to that of the fabled 'Star Trek' series, yet we also have folks who plow their cars into trees, people and buildings because they're TEXTING on a VOICE enabled cell phone.

Look, any vaccination is going to have the potential for side effects. Virtually all medications do. However, they're judged on their ability to prevent or cure an illness, usually figuring that if for every 100,000 people that are protected and one has an adverse reaction -- then the risk is acceptable. Especially when you consider that not vaccinating can wind up with 75,000 people catch the disease, of which at least 400 may die, 200 may be permanently affected and the cost of treatment can be 1000 times greater than the cost of vaccination.

Car makers have 'acceptable deaths' built into their operating guides. They know some of the many cars will fail for various reasons and kill folks. So, most pack a certain amount of funds on the side to handle the inevitable lawsuits. However, only if the percentage of injuries and deaths goes beyond their estimates will they recall that particular vehicle.

Something like this goes on with vaccinations. Polio was a very, very nasty disease. Thousands wound up in huge, Iron Lungs which used negative pressure to get them to breath. Thousands remained crippled for life. Kids tended to catch it before adults and many died.

The Polio Vaccine all but wiped it out. Until recently, there have been no new cases of Polio in the US in over 50 years. The ones which have popped up were brought here by immigrants and any US citizen who caught it had not been immunized as a kid.

Typhoid, tetanus, diphtheria, Scarlet Fever, Whooping Cough, Mumps, Measles, Chicken Pox and a host more diseases which were common place when I was a kid, are pretty rare today.

When I worked in medicine, I never saw a cases of Tetanus, AKA, Lockjaw where getting a cut on rusty metal could cause a person's muscles to lock, especially the facial ones. Meaning, they couldn't eat. Well, they could, but only if the Doctors knocked their front teeth out and fed them liquids.

I saw an actual case of Lockjaw on TV a couple of years back. A guy in his 20's had it. He had never been vaccinated against it because his folks didn't believe in that stuff. He recovered, but that $20 vaccination he didn't get cost him probably close to $20,000 in hospital bills.

If a medication works for the majority and helps wipe out a disease, then the minute amount of deaths or disabilities caused by any side effects is acceptable, provided the percentage is very low.

Remember Mumps, the Kid Disease? Painful and annoying but just one of those things. Catch it when you're 22 and it's even more painful. The fun part is that in an adult, it can settle in the testicals, causing pain like you would not believe and sterilizing the affected.

We have a vaccine for that.

Scarlet Fever? Rare these days but those who caught a good case of it could die, be left with heart damage and, in some cases due to the raging fever, brain damage.

If a vaccination popped up that would prevent the worst forms of cancer, but had a potential to cause ADHD or ADD in one out of 2000 recipients, I'd still jump at it. Cancer is debilitating, the treatments harsh, the cure for the worst forms low, most eventually cause pain so bad that patients have to be doped nearly into unconsciousness to get relief and the expense is hideous. Some surgeries can remove the cancer, but leave the person terribly scarred and butchered up.

I'd take the risk with the vaccination.

Even when penicillin, the first wonder drug came out, there were a few folks who reacted badly to it. However, it cured assorted infections in millions that could have become deadly.

No one ranted and raved about how dangerous the stuff was because they were too happy to find a medication that could easily cure almost any bacterial infection. Some of which, the previous cure required a painful surgical lancing. Incidents of gangrene dropped dramatically. Blood poisoning could easily be cured. Post surgical infections could be prevented.

However, none of those unable to take the drug started campaigns to eradicate it. They knew it helped a whole lot more folks than it hurt.

Believe me, I've worked in surgery, the ER and on the floors and I've seen what nasty diseases can do. I've also seen the amount of diseases drop dramatically since vaccinations became common.

Often you need to consider the amount of good that a medication will do verses the bad.

You can't condemn thousands of folks to a slow death just because your single kid took the medication and had a lasting side effect.
 
2013-12-05 03:29:18 PM

LazarusLong42: Well, she has certainly lost all of the zero respect I had for her before.


This. Elderly meat puppets for corporate shilling of the PR event that is "news" are cheaper than Haitian sex workers.
 
2013-12-05 03:29:31 PM
I'm not an anti vaxxer- my child has had all her shots. But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.
 
2013-12-05 03:32:48 PM

Pitabred: Not entirely sure why you think they should be spread out? Do you realize how many things you body comes into contact with daily, how many thousands of critters? A few more won't matter when your body sees over a thousand new antigens a day


Simple exercise: touch your finger to your keyboard.

Congratulation. You've just touched more antigenic compounds than are contained in a vaccine.

Eat a sandwich.

Congratulations, you've just internalized more antigenic compounds than a vaccine contains.

"Spreading vaccines out" and "vaccine overload" are pseudoscientific hack concepts.

Rik01: However, they're judged on their ability to prevent or cure an illness, usually figuring that if for every 100,000 people that are protected and one has an adverse reaction -- then the risk is acceptable.


The risk is about 1:1,000,000 in the general population of a potentially lethal adverse reaction, such as anaphylaxis. The link between vaccination and GBS is looking less and less like the case.

Rik01: You can't condemn thousands of folks to a slow death just because your single kid took the medication and had a lasting side effect.


Hannah Poling is the person that the anti-vaxxers mainly claim as the proof of their idiocy. Despite the fact that she had an underlying, previously undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder that was exacerbated by a previously existing Otitis media and fever.
 
2013-12-05 03:33:47 PM

kiwimoogle84: But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.


Do you care to expand on what you're claiming here? Especially since it goes against scientific consensus.
 
2013-12-05 03:36:18 PM

spidermilk: T.rex: Egoy3k: More like she opened her wallet and pandered.  Not really the same thing, just as shiatty to be sure, but not the same.

Are you kidding.... There's no money to be had to be anti-Big Pharma.... You got that backwards.

I agree with you BUT I would say about 50% of the age 20-30 mothers I know have voiced their concern about vaccines. And by concern I don't mean that they are reviewing appropriate literature or talking to an immune specialist. I mean they are forwarding quack websites to each other and re-posting that kid who's mother claims he died from the flu vaccine.

If you have an afternoon talk show you probably want these mommies to get interested. It is easier for Katie to come on her show and try to scare them into not vaccinating than it is for her to be an actual journalist and possibly offend (or educate) them.

Luckily, most of the above mentioned 20-30 year old mothers I know don't care enough (apparently) to refuse mandatory vaccines. So, they think that the flu vaccine might kill their child, but they don't actually care enough to fill out some paper work and refuse a vaccine (apparently). I know one chick who works in a hospital and although she firmly believes the flu shot could kill you and always gives you the flu, SHE STILL GETS ONE since she would lose her job otherwise. Clearly, if you really thought this had a reasonable chance of killing you wouldn't you be willing to lose your job?


There's a difference between voicing a concern about vaccinations, and refusing to get them.

I had a concern about the MMR shot- I had this vaccine given to my kids, by itself, within appropriate time-range, so that if something were to happen autism-wise, I could show that the shot would be in part responsible.
Nothing happened, surprise surprise. Concern while appropriate, must be shown responsibly,  and not by calling all vaccines HAXX.

But, if you see a bunch of facebook idiots, you should really correct them with linky goodness to appropriate studies, both disproving the fraud's research(no repeatable results found), and other studies showing no causation.

SCIENCE!!
 
2013-12-05 03:36:41 PM
Wow I didn't think I needed to explain my comment but here we are...

Katie Couric gets paid (or at the very least continues to be employed) based on how many people watch her show.  If she makes something that a lot of people think is good look scary then more people will tune in to watch her show to make sure that they are kept safe.  I didn't suggest that she was on the take only that the truth is less important that the ratings and 'this might kill you!!' keeps asses on couches more than 'some people think this might kill you but don't worry your Doctor Isn't lieing to you and it's actually quite safe and generally accepted to be a good idea.'
 
2013-12-05 03:37:46 PM

hardinparamedic: kiwimoogle84: But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.

Do you care to expand on what you're claiming here? Especially since it goes against scientific consensus.


I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered and that the risk of cancers actually increased after getting the shot.

Like I said I'm not an anti vaxxer, I just read too much about this vaccine in particular to decide it wasn't for me.
 
2013-12-05 03:40:53 PM

devildog123: Plenty of the anti-vaccers aren't bible thumpers. They're leftist granola eaters who hate all the "preservatives" because they'll give little Jayden or Moonbeam teh autism. Trying to make this a left/right issue is bullshiat. The crazies are on both sides.


Yeah, this really is an issue that has many hardcore leftwing idiots as wingnut derpsters, if not more. It's one of the few areas where "both sides are equally bad" is pretty much exactly right.
 
2013-12-05 03:43:59 PM

tlars699: I had a concern about the MMR shot- I had this vaccine given to my kids, by itself, within appropriate time-range, so that if something were to happen autism-wise, I could show that the shot would be in part responsible.


This makes zero sense.  During the same time frame your child also, ate, pooped, breathed, cried, smiled, saw the color red, wore clothes, was naked, interacted with mommy, interacted with daddy etc etc etc, would all of those things have also been partly responsible if you child was diagnosed with autism?
 
2013-12-05 03:44:21 PM

Skirl Hutsenreiter: spidermilk: T.rex: Egoy3k: More like she opened her wallet and pandered.  Not really the same thing, just as shiatty to be sure, but not the same.

Are you kidding.... There's no money to be had to be anti-Big Pharma.... You got that backwards.

I agree with you BUT I would say about 50% of the age 20-30 mothers I know have voiced their concern about vaccines. And by concern I don't mean that they are reviewing appropriate literature or talking to an immune specialist. I mean they are forwarding quack websites to each other and re-posting that kid who's mother claims he died from the flu vaccine.

If you have an afternoon talk show you probably want these mommies to get interested. It is easier for Katie to come on her show and try to scare them into not vaccinating than it is for her to be an actual journalist and possibly offend (or educate) them.

Luckily, most of the above mentioned 20-30 year old mothers I know don't care enough (apparently) to refuse mandatory vaccines. So, they think that the flu vaccine might kill their child, but they don't actually care enough to fill out some paper work and refuse a vaccine (apparently). I know one chick who works in a hospital and although she firmly believes the flu shot could kill you and always gives you the flu, SHE STILL GETS ONE since she would lose her job otherwise. Clearly, if you really thought this had a reasonable chance of killing you wouldn't you be willing to lose your job?

A good number of pediatricians will fire patients who refuse to vaccinate.  You can always find one who won't, but it takes some extra work beyond signing forms, which is why those doctors do it - they don't want to enable anti-vaxxers.

Now, I do happen to think that getting everything in the world on the same day is a bad idea, and the CDC recommended timelines are actually flexible enough to avoid that, but pediatricians are in the habit of lumping them together because it can be hard to get people to come back in over and over agai ...


THIS^^^ x 10 million.
There used to be clinics once or twice a year, where you could take your kids without going to the doctors' office to get their shots, particularly if there was a new shot that had to be taken.
The main reason why it's difficult to get people to come in over and over is:
1. Doctor visit co-pays, for some even with preventative care clauses in their insurance.
2. Needing to take vacation to take your kid in over and over. 2 weeks 10 days a year? Yeah, that's gone.
 
2013-12-05 03:45:16 PM

kiwimoogle84: I'm not an anti vaxxer- my child has had all her shots. But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.


The flu kills an awful lot of people every year.  If there's no point in the flu vaccine then there's no point in any of them.
 
2013-12-05 03:47:48 PM

kiwimoogle84: hardinparamedic: kiwimoogle84: But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.

Do you care to expand on what you're claiming here? Especially since it goes against scientific consensus.

I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered and that the risk of cancers actually increased after getting the shot.

Like I said I'm not an anti vaxxer, I just read too much about this vaccine in particular to decide it wasn't for me.


I hope this is not the best reference you can cite. When you look at the citations the author has made, they do not match her quotes and most of them link to quack sites. Try PubMed, they have good studies with proper references.
 
2013-12-05 03:49:13 PM

exvaxman: My daughter was killed by the pertussis vaccine. Going through the VAERS act as we had to do, it took years due to the political issues to get a settlement. The most obvious was "we have not heard a recent health issue" from the government. The reply of our lawyer (who helped write the VAERS act) stripped the government lawyer of her ability to be a lawyer ever again. Something like he had sent a death certificate and two years later she requested a status update.

My kid has everything but the pertussis vaccine right now.


You're a known anti-vax troll account and you're not funny.
 
2013-12-05 03:50:10 PM

kiwimoogle84: I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx


That's not a study, that's an article written by a practitioner of "alternative medicine" - anti-vaxxer and fraudulent vitamin huckster Joseph Mercola

 

kiwimoogle84: I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered


"All kinds of stuff"? Very convincing. I've read "all kinds of stuff" that "suggests" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. I rather suspect it is on par with the stuff you have read
 
2013-12-05 03:50:58 PM

kiwimoogle84: hardinparamedic: kiwimoogle84: But the HPV vaccine is utter bogus nonsense. It doesn't prevent anything and HAS been linked to problems. Same reason I don't get the flu shot- there's just no point.

Do you care to expand on what you're claiming here? Especially since it goes against scientific consensus.

I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered and that the risk of cancers actually increased after getting the shot.

Like I said I'm not an anti vaxxer, I just read too much about this vaccine in particular to decide it wasn't for me.


Mercola is not what we'd call an "authoritative source."
 
2013-12-05 03:52:25 PM

hardinparamedic: ladodger34: My friend's sister is an RN and an anti-vaxxer

Your friend's sister deserves to lose her RN license.


^^^this so much

I've recently lost a ton of nurse "friends" who, as group decided (with the help of a bunch of pink wine,) that they were all going to crusade for the anti-vax crowd in support of one of their colleagues whose son "caught Autism from his shots." Since they provide direct patient care to children, I felt obligated to report their profoundly dangerous opinion to their Director of Nursing, who called them all in for an educational afternoon, off the clock.

/rounds are pretty tense now

//eff 'em all
 
2013-12-05 03:52:34 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: kiwimoogle84: I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

That's not a study, that's an article written by a practitioner of "alternative medicine" - anti-vaxxer and fraudulent vitamin huckster Joseph Mercola

 kiwimoogle84: I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered

"All kinds of stuff"? Very convincing. I've read "all kinds of stuff" that "suggests" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. I rather suspect it is on par with the stuff you have read


If you read her quotes and check references she cites, especially her main point, the link of the "reference" says NOTHING even close to her quotes. It is kind of funny.
 
2013-12-05 03:54:29 PM

Ctrl-Alt-Del: kiwimoogle84: I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

That's not a study, that's an article written by a practitioner of "alternative medicine" - anti-vaxxer and fraudulent vitamin huckster Joseph Mercola

 kiwimoogle84: I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered

"All kinds of stuff"? Very convincing. I've read "all kinds of stuff" that "suggests" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. I rather suspect it is on par with the stuff you have read


I'm not a crazy crunchy right wing type. Believe me.

I've read articles over the years, including the piece about how the rats they tested it on only published results for the males and not the females. There was a 16 year old girl whose ovaries were fried by it.
 
2013-12-05 03:55:50 PM

jrodr018: Ctrl-Alt-Del: kiwimoogle84: I've read many MANY studies on it, here's just one reference-

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/16/hpv-va cc ine-effectiveness.aspx

That's not a study, that's an article written by a practitioner of "alternative medicine" - anti-vaxxer and fraudulent vitamin huckster Joseph Mercola

 kiwimoogle84: I've read all kinds of stuff that suggest that studies were fraudulently altered

"All kinds of stuff"? Very convincing. I've read "all kinds of stuff" that "suggests" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. I rather suspect it is on par with the stuff you have read

If you read her quotes and check references she cites, especially her main point, the link of the "reference" says NOTHING even close to her quotes. It is kind of funny.


I have a screaming child in my lap and I haven't slept since Tuesday, I'm sorry I don't have the time or focus to pore through the internet to find the perfect source.
 
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