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(Opposing Views)   "Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends   (opposingviews.com ) divider line
    More: Florida, handguns, guns  
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7710 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 9:42 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2013-12-05 10:01:37 AM  
5 votes:
My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.
2013-12-05 10:05:19 AM  
4 votes:
No charges being filed?
WTF?

If she had driven her car down the street like an idiot and turned some 8th grader into a stain she'd be behind bars. Which one of her family members is a cop ?
2013-12-05 09:53:49 AM  
4 votes:
Not that tragic of a story, just farking stupid. Irresponsible gun owners are doing more damage to "gun rights" than any anti-gun activist.

/never point a gun at something you dont intend to destroy
2013-12-05 12:19:28 PM  
3 votes:

Smidge204: So no requirements for safety training or evaluation? Would you support written and/or practical testing prior to issuing a permit? How about revoking of permits/licenses for consistently irresponsible but not necessarily *criminal* behavior with a firearm? How about evaluation of mental health?


Safety training, possibly if done correctly.  Evaluation, no.  All of these 'tests' and evaluations' can be tampered with in order to short circut the rights enumerated in the consitution.  What if the goverment decides that the test should cost $25,000?  What if the evaluation was only done by Brady 'bunch' or the VPN?  For you to lose your consitutional right, you need to either be convicted in a court of law or be found unfit to have the mental capacity to excercise your consitutional right.

This, for your information, is called Due Process.  Maybe you should look it up.
2013-12-05 10:35:30 AM  
3 votes:
If only he would have had a gun too, this could have been avoided....


But seriously... the gun`s owner loading it and leaving it on table is an idiot... put a safety one it, a lock, something, anything if it`s going to be loaded... not leaving it on the freaking table.

They should all be charged...


/`murikans with their penis replacements... such derpage
2013-12-05 10:18:10 AM  
3 votes:

Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.
2013-12-05 10:06:17 AM  
3 votes:
And once again, a senseless death could have been avoided had the folks involved followed Rule One of gun safety: ALWAYS TREAT THE GODDAMNED GUN LIKE IT'S LOADED. No exceptions. If the firearm in question is not currently in pieces for storage/cleaning, then you don't look down the farking barrel, you don't pull the trigger unless you want to shoot something, and you sure as hell don't point the goddamned thing at something that you aren't willing to kill!

Hell, I've known this shiat since I was 6. The hunter's safety course I was in at age 9 drilled that damned phrase in every five minutes or so. Always treat a gun as though it's loaded, and you're far less likely to do something stupid like shoot your boyfriend.
2013-12-05 10:04:42 AM  
3 votes:
The gun owner should be held partly responsible for leaving their gun outside of their control.

IF anyone takes responsible gun ownership seriously.
2013-12-05 10:02:33 AM  
3 votes:
Can we arrest the gun owner for being a total dipsh*t and letting them play with his gun?
2013-12-05 09:55:56 AM  
3 votes:
It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.
2013-12-05 09:53:14 AM  
3 votes:
memecrunch.com

/treat every weapon as if it is loaded
2013-12-05 09:50:21 AM  
3 votes:

AirForceVet: FTA: As heartbreaking as Holt's death is, he is far from the first person to be killed in an accidental shooting even this year. According to Policy Mic, accidental shootings killed 851 Americans in 2012.

I wonder how many of those accidental shootings were Darwin Awards, unlike this sad case.

/Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.


Or, alternatively, perhaps accurate compilation of such data requires time, and at present accurate data is available only up through 2011.

However, I suspect that your belief that the National Rifle Association somehow "fights" collection of suicide data is far more likely.
2013-12-05 03:18:02 PM  
2 votes:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Hmm. A standard-issue service rifle is not a machine gun. I've never had to set up a range card with FPLs for any M16 variant.


Which service?  ATF considers a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".  Of course, ATF has also ruled that a run of the mill 14 inch long white tennis shoe shoelace is also considered to be a "machinegun"...and no, I'm not joking.
2013-12-05 03:13:37 PM  
2 votes:

metatronarchetype: You think assault weapons should be restricted, I understand that. I'm trying to see if you know what an assault weapon actually is.

Apparently, you don't.


Not familar with Dimensio, I see.  You need to take everything in the context of the Snark turned up to 11.

His point here is a facious one where only the police and millitary should be able to commit mass murder.  You, plebe, should have no such right or protection from such.
2013-12-05 02:51:20 PM  
2 votes:

Smidge204: are you against permitting, licensing and registering firearms too? What if they decide a permit should cost $25,000?


I am.  Having a registry is something the vast majority of gun owners oppose - for good reason.
2013-12-05 01:52:39 PM  
2 votes:

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


There are plenty of guns in my house (most of which are unloaded and locked up) and my kid gets plenty of education about how to handle guns, but I still insist that whenever he plays with a toy gun he adheres as closely as possible to the four rules of gun safety. I even get to hear him correcting his peers about muzzle and trigger discipline.

It's my belief that get lax when handling anything that looks or feels like a gun will eventually lead to an unconscious tendency to be lax with the real thing. Conversely, if you discipline yourself to be more careful you may find that you're keeping your finger off the trigger of a spray bottle or drill, but you're also much less likely to have a tragic moment of inattention with a firearm.

scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
2013-12-05 01:23:10 PM  
2 votes:

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.

Until they suspend a pile of due process rights along with the 2nd Amendment, they are not going to get very far.  If they do suspend the 4th and 2nd, citizens are going to be just a tad bit irritated.

That doesn't change the fact that if the government wanted to take them, they could. I never said it would be done legally. This whole idea of a registration list being used as a step towards confiscation is bunk.


Except that it's being done right now, which proves that it's, in fact, not bunk.
2013-12-05 12:59:33 PM  
2 votes:
I do not like guns, which is why what I am about to say rankles me, despite my coming to the logical conclusion that it's the only way to handle this situation in America:

Everyone in this country should be required to go through basic firearm training as part of their early education.

We don't need to use live weapons for this training. We just need to make sure that EVERYONE understands the rules of firearms. We need to make sure that EVERYONE is trained to handle one in the most basic sense so that they will at least know NOT to point it at someone they don't want to kill, NOT to put their finger on the trigger until they're ready to kill, NOT to assume a gun isn't loaded, etc.

It should be something we all learn-- even if it's just a classroom, on-paper, watch some safety films sort of learning-- before we stumble upon a firearm, which can happen at any time in a person's life. And if they don't know the safety rules-- and they're too damned dumb to figure them out themselves in that moment-- they'll have a better chance of NOT killing the rest of us accidentally if they've had these classes.

I do not want to use guns. I honestly don't think anyone who is sane should find any joy in holding the power of instant death in their hands, and I certainly don't trust anyone of the human race with that power... But they're an evil that we have to live with, and if we have to live with them, we should at least all know the risks, rules, and proper handling of such things.

That said, I am still kind of hoping that some day I can move to a country with stricter gun laws and better health care for all. I honestly don't understand the logic of a country that makes guns so readily available, and yet doesn't provide universal health care to those same people who are inevitably going to end up shooting each other. It's like the American government wants  Americans to thin their own herds.
2013-12-05 12:57:39 PM  
2 votes:

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?


You will have to ask them.  The last piece of legislation that went around with that required the background check to include the make, model and S/N of the firearm as well, which is ancillary to the intent of a background check.  This creates privacy and registry concerns.

If you want to do a background check, keep it only to the information that is required to perform said check and keep the rest of it out.
2013-12-05 12:22:13 PM  
2 votes:

R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET


RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.
2013-12-05 12:08:16 PM  
2 votes:

CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
2013-12-05 11:50:40 AM  
2 votes:

GanjSmokr: jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.

I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.

Motocycles are "kid's toy"s?

notsureifserious.jpg

/and not everyone is an organ donor...
//taking mine with me
///yes, yes, nobody wants the organs of a stoner anyway, I know.


Well, OK - if a person's life wasn't pretty much theirs to dispose of as they wish to begin with, then what I said would be arguable, and maybe wrong - but finally, if somebody doesn't value their own life, I am not going to value it for them.
2013-12-05 11:24:08 AM  
2 votes:

imfallen_angel: The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern,


That was not your origional premis, was it?  Now you are moving the goalpost from "most of the population are idiots to start with" to now only account for Millennials who only account for about 25% of the population.

Spotting your logical fallacies is not very difficult.  In fact, I would bet that most of the population could identify them quite easily.

/I could be wrong though.
2013-12-05 11:11:07 AM  
2 votes:

HeadLever: However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one. These are the kids really don't know the difference.


Indeed, this Ignorance = Safety model leads to shooting deaths, overdose, alcohol poisoning, STD, and unwanted pregnancy.

I've taught my kids firearms safety in part because we like to go target shooting, but also because I don't want them ever to be in the position where some kid found dad's pistol and "hey, let's play soldier". Kids will be curious and if all they know is what's on TV, they will be stupid-curious, and that's no good.
2013-12-05 10:29:10 AM  
2 votes:

Smidge204: The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.


You are completly wrong about the criminal part.  No one that I know is resistant to the idea of keeping violent criminals from guns.

The moron argument has you playing one.  Being a moron is a subjective qualifcation and in that context, is an arbitrary and capricious limitation on an enumerated right.

And what happened to your gun-troll alt?  Did it get banned or something?  You are never in smidge form in these threads.
2013-12-05 10:19:06 AM  
2 votes:

skozlaw: If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


That's a great idea.  I can do one better: in any criminal case where the accused is convicted, and a gun was used in the incident, swap out the jury for the sentencing phase with one drawn entirely from current and paid-up NRA members.

You'd see a lot of sentences passed down including the phrase "without possibility of parole".
2013-12-05 10:11:37 AM  
2 votes:

ManateeGag: More retarded people with guns ruining to for responsible adults.


There isn't much objection to the idea that guns should be kept out of the hands of criminals, and there's only a moderate amount of objection to the idea that guns should be kept out of the hands of complete morons and the chronically irresponsible.

The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.

I think the reason is they're afraid they won't pass the test themselves. Which probably means they, too, should not be allowed access to firearms.
=Smidge=
2013-12-05 10:10:55 AM  
2 votes:

Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.


Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.
2013-12-05 10:03:17 AM  
2 votes:
so the friend quietly loaded the gun and left it there on the table?

What a pal.
2013-12-05 10:00:14 AM  
2 votes:
One of the more obscure gun safety rules: Don't pick up a gun, point it at someone's chest and pull the trigger as joke.
2013-12-05 09:51:25 AM  
2 votes:
Everybody's responsible, until they aren't.  Nothing can be done, NOTHING.  It's like an unsolvable equation, immovable object, Carrot Top's hair.
2013-12-05 09:46:43 AM  
2 votes:
The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.
2013-12-05 09:45:06 AM  
2 votes:
Boca Raton police interviewed all witnesses of the shooting. Everyone present gave the same account of events and confirmed that the shooting was absolutely an accident.

The definition of "accident" becomes pretty expansive when a gun is involved.
2013-12-05 09:28:13 AM  
2 votes:
FTA: As heartbreaking as Holt's death is, he is far from the first person to be killed in an accidental shooting even this year. According to Policy Mic, accidental shootings killed 851 Americans in 2012.

I wonder how many of those accidental shootings were Darwin Awards, unlike this sad case.

/Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.
2013-12-05 09:25:15 AM  
2 votes:
He fixes the cable?
2013-12-05 09:17:53 AM  
2 votes:
Any story that begins with people "playing" with guns is doomed from the start.

Typical lamestream media, never reporting on all of the *good* gunplay days.
2013-12-06 12:56:12 PM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


In other words, abstinence-only education for firearms in ineffective?  With how often people complain that this never works for sex ed, you'd think it would be obvious, but then again most people lack any real logical reasoning.
2013-12-05 11:14:25 PM  
1 vote:
Hey, a nice subgun in .45 ACP is a pretty good tool for home defense.  If you put 30 rounds of .45 ACP into a Bad Guy(TM) in 15 seconds, odds are pretty good that he will cease to be a threat.  Here's a pic of our "His and Hers" SMGs:

i135.photobucket.com

Just to let you know:  the Mrs's gun is the one that's blued, while mine is the one that's parkerized.  Hers actually came out of a Sheriff's Department's armory, at the cost to me of a few "post sample" M4s, complete with giggle switches.  Given the number of original mags that came with hers, I think I did quite well on that deal, even though the gun and the mags had the Department's name etched into them with an electric pencil.
2013-12-05 07:46:15 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: You earned it: That is a locked and loaded machine gun inside a house.


No, it isn't.  First off:  The bolt is closed.  It's an "open bolt" design.  Secondly, the ammo in the belt is Dewatted.  (It came from a batch of horrible Egyptian surplus that, at best, produced hangfires when fired and which I bought strictly for the components, and which is visibly different from every other round of 7.92 that I own.  The projectiles were pulled, the twine-tied cordite was removed, the primer compound was deactivated, and then the bullet was reseated, and the rounds were inserted into a functional belt.)  Even if the bolt were to be pulled back, the manual safety disengaged, and the trigger pulled, all that would happen is that there'd be a loud "Chunk!" sound, the bolt would slam forward, a round would be chambered, and then...well....nothing.
2013-12-05 05:44:51 PM  
1 vote:

CasperImproved: umad: CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?

The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.

You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to own a firearm.

Common sense dictates that the gun owner should not have had the gun "sitting around" to be played with. Once he saw they were going to play with it, he should have taken it away as though from a child and put it away.  He compounded his negligence by loading the gun and putting it back into the "play" zone. That turned it from negligent, into criminally negligent.

While the two were completely stupid to play with a gun in the first place, the gun should never had been there for them to play with.


You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to vote. The only person responsible for a person's actions is the farking person who actually performed those actions. The gun owner isn't to blame anymore than a car owner would be for having the car he left unlocked with the keys in the ignition stolen and used in a hit and run.

The hilarious part is that you have been ragging on gun owners for the entire thread about being irresponsible, yet you don't want to hold the only person who actually farking killed somebody responsible. You are a joke.
2013-12-05 03:39:00 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: The law was changed by their elected representatives. They were then given time to comply with the law. The Supreme Court (page 54 of your favorite decision) says that it's perfectly kosher.  What's your beef?


Given the lack of debate involved in that process, do you honestly consider that to be indicative of a remotely free society?  Keep in mind that for many, many years, literal slavery was entirely legal in this country.
2013-12-05 03:37:37 PM  
1 vote:

R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.


obviously.  Perfect example on how the gun grabbers use 'reasonable' arguments in order to implement unreasonable legislation.
2013-12-05 03:36:46 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.


5.  Confiscation from people who were told by the Government that they were essentially grandfathered into legality if they registered their rifles, until the Government in question changed their mind, and ordered them to surrender their weapons, at the point of (unregistered) guns of the same kind in the hands of Governmental employees.

There ya go.  FTFY.
2013-12-05 03:35:25 PM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: demaL-demaL-yeH: Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

Good job at completely ignoring the other side of that confiscation argument.  The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.


He doesn't really have a problem with that.
2013-12-05 03:33:29 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.


Good job at completely ignoring the other side of that confiscation argument.  The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.
2013-12-05 03:32:09 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

And I'm beginning to suspect that there are a bunch of people from the third category who post in these threads.


Registries have also been useful in the city of New York following implementation of firearm prohibitions that included no grandfather clause. Owners of newly banned firearms were contacted by the government and instructed that they were no longer legally allowed to own newly banned registered firearms, and that the firearms were to be removed from the city, destroyed, or turned in to the government without compensation.
2013-12-05 03:07:55 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja


What you see as drummed up paranoia, others see as prudent precaution aginst a tired and true method of gun confiscation.

Never mind the fact that will never comply anyway....
2013-12-05 03:07:47 PM  
1 vote:

Dimensio: I stated that "assault weapons" are suitable only for mass murder, and therefore that law enforcement should have exclusive access to them.

Study it out.


You think assault weapons should be restricted, I understand that.  I'm trying to see if you know what an assault weapon actually is.

Apparently, you don't.

demaL-demaL-yeH: Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja.


Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.
2013-12-05 03:07:02 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: HeadLever: Having a registry is something the vast majority of gun owners oppose - for good reason.

Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja.


History certainly is
2013-12-05 02:22:10 PM  
1 vote:

GanjSmokr: think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.


What would lead you to believe that I consider civilians who call other civilians "civilians" are trained professionals?
Idiots who play dress-up soldier and act like thugs are about as far from professional as you can get.
2013-12-05 01:52:50 PM  
1 vote:
This just in! stupid people do stupid stuff! Do you think training would have prevented dumb things from happening?  Guns put holes in things.  How hard of a concept is that to grasp?  People get reckless and they get hurt or killed.  That is every kid driving down a country road at 3 a.m. at 90 mph and wiping out.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation.

Ah, black helicopters stupidity. That's why.

Do you really think that the vast majority of the US Congress agreeing with you, along with explicit provisions in the bill prohibiting the usage of the data for any type of registry, isn't going to sufficient protection? You're not a tiny, persecuted group. The US Government and society is pro gun. Some of us are just asking for a little farking sanity. Like trying to make it much harder for convicted felons to buy guns.

If you don't want to try and solve the problem, just say so. Don't rattle off some bullcrap about how you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Because you're fighting to allow criminals easy access to guns.


Pro gun? The US govt is pro gun?  I think that would have to do on how much opposition there is against it.  Hillary and Sen. Frankenstien have already said they want them gone.  Chicagobama kept CCW out of Illinois til the supreme court forced them to do it, and they are still trying to fight it. The American people might be pro-gun, but powers that be in our government are very polarized against it.
2013-12-05 01:46:20 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: (They're locked up in guarded armories and issued only to people extensively trained in their safe use.)



Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.
2013-12-05 01:34:01 PM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: Ow! That was my feelings!: Like the 'terrorist watch list'? Due process won't stop them, they don't believe in that either

That is a major concern, but being placed on a watchlist and having issues at TSA checkpoints is a bit different than a complete suspension of search and seizure laws.

Utimlatly I agree and it may take anothe Ruby Ridge for them to see the value in strong Due Process rights.  I hope not, but they don't seem to be listening to us right now.

/pun somewhat intended


Ok, my point was more basic. That many Democrats want to use the 'terrorism watch list' for a lot more than just denying individuals a right to travel, they want to use it to deny citizens their 2A rights, among other things.
2013-12-05 01:27:11 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: 4. Pistols are a menace to society. That's why we took them away from lieutenants.
5. Your right to bear arms is subordinate to other people's right to go about their business bullethole-free.


OK, I admit it, I LOLed at 4.  Regarding taking away my rights to prevent other people from sprouting GSWs:  Not So Much.  That argument can and has been used repeatedly to enable a Police State.  During the 20th Century, gun control was a necessary precursor to the murder of literally hundreds of millions of people.  We're talking literally about MOUNTAINS of dead human beings.  That's unacceptable, period.

If the Government can't trust us with our machineguns, why do we trust them with theirs?
2013-12-05 01:17:13 PM  
1 vote:

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.


Also, how are they gonig to find all of those guns that I lost in that bad boating accident a few years ago?  Are they going to start dredging every lake in the nation?  Or are they going to just take my word for it?  Or are they going to unsucessfully search my home anyway?

Their choice.  Doesn't matter to me.
2013-12-05 01:16:00 PM  
1 vote:

ButtercupKitteh: i didn't realize you could get out of murder if the victim's family didn't press charges. I've seen articles about people killing people in self defense and it still being a murder case of some sort.
Shouldn't the owner of the gun here be charged with something at least? Like not having his weapon secured properly or something.
I'd also like to know why the hell they decided to load the gun after it being empty apparently all day, what were they planning to do with it?


It wasn't murder. There was no intent or malice.
At worse it was manslaughter, as she was being an idiot by pointing a "unloaded" firearm at someone and pulling the trigger as a prank. All the witnesses gave the same story and the family spoke in favor of the girl. Yeah they could still prosecute, but since the family isn't making a fuss the DA will probably save the man hours.
2013-12-05 01:09:14 PM  
1 vote:

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Like the government couldn't do that now if it wanted to.


It could try, but without a nice little list to go by, it woudn't get too many of them.
2013-12-05 01:05:18 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).


Registration is step one of Confiscation.
2013-12-05 01:04:42 PM  
1 vote:

demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).


This crap again? Bah blah SCOTUS blah blah Miller ruling BLAH BLAH BLAH
2013-12-05 01:01:13 PM  
1 vote:

Frank N Stein: So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas?


Santa brought me one of these for Black Friday on sale for $550:
Adams Arms AR-15 Piston Upper Receiver

Well, maybe not Santa.  Who is the patron saint of BlackFridayThanksgivinnukah?  It was that guy.  It's going on a Colt A2 lower that has a SlideFire stock and a LMG Heavy Barrel upper already.
2013-12-05 01:00:23 PM  
1 vote:

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?


It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation. And before you say "that's never happened!" look at California's SKS Registry, and what New York is doing now with their post Sandy Hook" idiocy.  Gun owners have been screwed over and over again by the anti gunners, who say one thing, and then push laws that do something else entirely.  That's what lead to the whole "no more compromise" bit on the part of so many gun owners.  Gun Control advocates generally follow the principle of "slowly boiling the frog", but their general goal is to ban all guns, period.  That's why they're pushing the "assault weapons ban" stupidity, when the guns in question are generally used in something like 1/2 of 1 percent of crimes involving guns.  It's an attempt to condition people to the idea of taking away all guns, period.
2013-12-05 12:56:46 PM  
1 vote:

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks? They're fighting to keep the loopholes that allow violent criminals to walk into a gun show and just randomly buy a gun in a private sale open.


They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration. The original legislation didn't have that, and was backed by the NRA.
2013-12-05 12:48:55 PM  
1 vote:
Meh, it sucks for the kids involved, but I'm not getting the third party outrage and bloodlust here. They did something risky but consensual and lost a life. No different than other risky behaviours.

There's about 15,000 HIV deaths a year, and 50,000 new HIV diagnoses (cdc data). Most of them, presumably were consensual but highly risky behaviour. Despite all the warning and public service messages about safe practices available. Let's start charging the partner of any HIV diagnosis with attempted homocide (and homocide if it results in death). Or not. Your choice. But at least let's not have a double standard for cases like this which cause a relative tiny 500 deaths a year. (In other words, politicizing your pretend concern outrage is moronic).
2013-12-05 12:35:44 PM  
1 vote:

CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?


The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.
2013-12-05 12:30:19 PM  
1 vote:

R.A.Danny: Guadior42: R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.

According to Cooper your 5 is covered by his 4. But yes.


True. I find being a little more explicit when trying to pound sense into people is a good thing to do.
2013-12-05 12:28:48 PM  
1 vote:

Smidge204: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.

Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=


I'm pretty sure that if you're currently in jail on a felony conviction, you're not allowed to own a gun, either.
2013-12-05 12:20:54 PM  
1 vote:

stuffy: That is a really stupid thing to do. You could damage the gun.


Unless it was a rimfire, no, you can't.
2013-12-05 12:18:47 PM  
1 vote:

Dimensio: If the National Rifle Association truly is not trying to hide data, then for what reason is no one able to present statistics proving that concealed weapons permit holders commit murder at a rate greater than that of the general adult population?


Because the facts support the exact opposite, that CCW holders commit fewer murders per person than both Law Enforcement AND the general populace at large?
2013-12-05 12:13:30 PM  
1 vote:
Theaetetus:
Data from the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) - violent incidents and deaths, death rates, and causes of injury mortality. Data provided for 16 states and are not nationally representative.
What about the other 34 states?


You can always look at other sources, since there are mandatory reporting laws for things like GSWs.
2013-12-05 12:09:30 PM  
1 vote:
In what universe is it fun to dry fire a gun at someone?  I think that may be the dumbest game I've ever heard of.
If someone did that to me, I would immediately punch them in the face, and make sure they were never allowed to hold a gun again.

In this case, they played, then put the gun down, and went away for a while.  During the time, the owner came back and loaded the gun, for some unknown reason, and left it out in the same place.  Yeah...  That seems likely.

IMHO the girlfriend should be charged, at the least, with manslaughter.  She caused another person's death by her own stupidity and carelessness.  I think that's pretty easy to prove.  Even if the family doesn't want to press charges, the state certainly can.
2013-12-05 12:01:40 PM  
1 vote:

Dimensio: By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.


Treat the disease, not the symptoms
2013-12-05 11:56:40 AM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: You are completly wrong about the criminal part. No one that I know is resistant to the idea of keeping violent criminals from guns.


Tell that to the people who protest background checks, which are really the only way to sensibly check if someone with a criminal background may be attempting to acquire a gun. Or any attempt to establish a registry that would enable tracing the ownership of firearms to find out how criminals get them.

You know, some places actually prohibit sale or transfer of firearms between private individuals? If you want to sell your firearm you have to go through a licensed dealer who takes care of all the paperwork (including background checks). Would you support something like that?

HeadLever: The moron argument has you playing one. Being a moron is a subjective qualifcation and in that context, is an arbitrary and capricious limitation on an enumerated right.


So no requirements for safety training or evaluation? Would you support written and/or practical testing prior to issuing a permit? How about revoking of permits/licenses for consistently irresponsible but not necessarily *criminal* behavior with a firearm? How about evaluation of mental health?

HeadLever: And what happened to your gun-troll alt? Did it get banned or something? You are never in smidge form in these threads.


Sorry, don't have an alt. Not sure who you're thinking of but I use this handle everywhere my actual name/personal info is not genuinely required. *shrug*
=Smidge=
2013-12-05 11:55:30 AM  
1 vote:

R.A.Danny: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent.

Or maybe we just realize in our maturity how stupid we were in our youth, and know that if these young dingbats somehow avoid killing themselves by the time they get to our age they will realize the same thing.


This. I don't regard young people as inferior because they aren't competent yet. Competence will come in time. That's why life is long.
2013-12-05 11:55:18 AM  
1 vote:

Smidge204: The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.


Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.
2013-12-05 11:47:36 AM  
1 vote:

R.A.Danny: Dinki: R.A.Danny: If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.

You might want to stop listening to the NRA- they lie to you about everything.

Despite national push, more states relaxing gun laws

1) The laws had to be there to relax
2) That is a wonderful thing


I tend to agree - most gun laws are just stupid, and even some of the ones that "work" only serve to protect stupid people from their own stupidity, like drug laws do. Now I don't buy "Idiocracy" theories - this won't "weaken the race", statistically - but it won't strengthen it either.
In general, protecting the stupid from themselves is more trouble to society than it is worth - it requires the expenditure of resources, and often, the restriction of liberties - and the dividend you get back is more stupid, dumb, buck-toothed trailer park assholes we end up having to take care of.
2013-12-05 11:38:49 AM  
1 vote:

Dinki: R.A.Danny: If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.

You might want to stop listening to the NRA- they lie to you about everything.

Despite national push, more states relaxing gun laws


1) The laws had to be there to relax
2) That is a wonderful thing
2013-12-05 11:37:54 AM  
1 vote:

Doc Daneeka: Nonetheless it's a fact that, other things being equal, easy access to guns increases the suicide rate


The successful suicide rate. Guns are far more effective than taking pills.
2013-12-05 11:37:22 AM  
1 vote:

Ex-Texan: My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.


Dry firing won't hurt your gun.

If you're not dry-firing, you're not training enough.
2013-12-05 11:32:09 AM  
1 vote:

Dinki: An irresponsible driver kills a person while driving drunk = more stringent drink and drive laws affecting responsible drivers.

An irresponsible mine owner kills his employees through lax standards = more stringent mining laws affecting responsible mine owners.

An irresponsible factory owner pollutes the environment = more stringent pollution laws affecting responsible  factory owners.

An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets**


If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.
2013-12-05 11:31:33 AM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"


Awful certain of what the whole problem is, wasn't he?
2013-12-05 11:10:45 AM  
1 vote:

Adss2009: Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.


Do they take into account the deaths that are actually for the common good? Do people regularly use cars for self defense or suicide? Does any of this have any bearing on rights in general?
2013-12-05 11:09:29 AM  
1 vote:

you are a puppet: 1. Bear the thousand injuries of Fortunado as best you can, but when he ventures upon insult...
2. Spend the day dry firing a gun with the whole gang
3. Quietly load it and leave it on the table
4. "In pace requiescat!"


That was the curious part of the story for me, as well. Why, after observing his friends dry-firing his gun, would he then wait until they weren't around, load it, and then leave it out once again?
2013-12-05 11:05:10 AM  
1 vote:
"Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends

Exactly as God intended.
2013-12-05 11:02:15 AM  
1 vote:

Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Y

ou're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)
2013-12-05 11:01:07 AM  
1 vote:

imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.


Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"
2013-12-05 10:59:19 AM  
1 vote:

Carousel Beast: Carn: Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.

You just can't let go of your derp long enough to think, can you?

Let's base this on your own argument (bolded, above). There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Links:

Death Rate (CDC)
Number of passenger vehicles
Number of guns

/Idiot? Look in the mirror, pal


So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?  The perfect is the enemy of the good?  And if you want to make a fair comparison, instead of deaths per capita you might measure deaths per mile driven or deaths per minute/hour driving vs gun deaths per min/hour used.  Or take gun deaths divided by number of gun owners rather than per capita.  And it's completely ridiculous anyway, since vehicles have a purpose that is non-violent, we heavily regulate them, and there are still accidents and deaths.  Guns have a violent purpose, we regulate them less heavily, and there are accidents and deaths.  tada?

For the record, I'm a huge believer that it should be much harder to get a driver's license, that there are an awful lot of people who have one that shouldn't, and that penalties for negligent and irresponsible behavior when driving should be higher.
2013-12-05 10:58:24 AM  
1 vote:
I would be ok with charging everyone involved with negligent homicide. All guns are loaded.

I know for a fact that my pistols are not loaded, have the magazines out and safeties on, yet I still check to make sure they are unloaded before I pull them out of their case or hand them off to someone. And even then if I have to dry fire it I don't point it at anything. Just common sense.

Yeah keeping them unloaded and in a locked box makes them useless for home defense but not why I won them anyways.
2013-12-05 10:58:03 AM  
1 vote:

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.
2013-12-05 10:52:21 AM  
1 vote:

Loren: No. Negligent homicide.


I don't think you could make a case for accomplices with that. You need something that everyone involved goes down for since it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident". The fact that the girl was the on that actually wound up shooting anybody was simply a matter of misfortune, they're all to blame for the event.

Carousel Beast: You apparently don't understand analogies at all since I didn't make one


So you think automobiles are a literal stand-in for firearms and the two can actually be used interchangeably per your suggestion?

Sounds about right considering the sensibility of anything else you ever post.
2013-12-05 10:47:33 AM  
1 vote:
People dying acting like morons is OK by everyone on Fark but as soon as people are acting like morons WITH A GUN.  Suddenly its gun outrage, idiots are idiots gun or not if this hadn't killed them they just would have died trying to lick a downed power cable or something.
2013-12-05 10:45:55 AM  
1 vote:

OnlyM3: No charges being filed?
WTF?


It's Florida and she's white.
2013-12-05 10:45:26 AM  
1 vote:

imfallen_angel: Overall, most of the population are idiots to start with, raising kids to be just as stupid..


But yet gun deaths are falling and folks are living longer.  Methinks that you spend too much time buried in florida news stories in your mom's basement and not enough time living in the real world.

Yes, there are dumb folks out there, but trying to convince yourself that most are simpleton idots is a good way to keep your empathy at a minimum and your callousness turned up to 11.
2013-12-05 10:45:23 AM  
1 vote:
They should ALL be arrested......unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime.  The gun owner was probably secretly in love with the victims girlfriend, so he figured if he put bullets in the gun he could get rid of the only one standing in his way.....too bad it happened to be her that pulled the trigger.  Seriously though, you NEVER point a gun at someone unless you are prepared to shoot them, even if you know the gun is not loaded and especially if you have no idea if it's loaded, what a waste.  Also, I hardly think this qualifies for a Florida tag...."Dumbass" yes, "Moron" yes, but not Florida.
2013-12-05 10:43:20 AM  
1 vote:

AirForceVet: /Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.


Sure you can.  Google "WISQARS".  You can get all kinds of data, including suicide by gun, and the NRA has done NOTHING to prevent that kind of data.  Why, you ask?  Well, it could be because it proves that things like accident by guns have been consistently becoming more and more rare, but the truth is that you're most likely confusing actual crime reports with the highly-speculative anti-gun propaganda that was produced by the CDC decades ago.

Oh, and guns don't CAUSE suicide...at best, there's a correlation, most likely because people who really want to commit suicide tend to know that the most effective way to do so is to shoot themselves, so they might buy a gun to do it.   Correlation /= Causation.
2013-12-05 10:42:56 AM  
1 vote:

topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.


This guy did.

www.examiner.com
2013-12-05 10:41:45 AM  
1 vote:

skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.


No.  Negligent homicide.

imfallen_angel: But seriously... the gun`s owner loading it and leaving it on table is an idiot... put a safety one it, a lock, something, anything if it`s going to be loaded... not leaving it on the freaking table.


Yup.  The owner deserves a charge for that nonsense, also.
2013-12-05 10:40:00 AM  
1 vote:

Carn: Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.


You just can't let go of your derp long enough to think, can you?

Let's base this on your own argument (bolded, above). There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Links:

Death Rate (CDC)
Number of passenger vehicles
Number of guns

/Idiot? Look in the mirror, pal
2013-12-05 10:35:54 AM  
1 vote:

Carousel Beast: Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


No, I won't, because unlike you I understand how analogies work.

However, I'm absolutely in favor of much, MUCH more severe punishments for people who hurt and kill others behind the wheel while acting irresponsibly.

Let's start with texters who cause fatal crashes. Lock the farkers up. Thirty years mandatory minimum with no chance of parole would be a good starting point, I think. There's no need to have such mindless individuals wandering around in society causing problems for everyone else.
2013-12-05 10:23:37 AM  
1 vote:

topcon: HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.

Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.


Or your average cop, that blow away kids with toy guns routinely.
2013-12-05 10:20:01 AM  
1 vote:

Dimensio: topcon: Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.

Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.

Consider the number of news reports of such incidents occurring compared to the number of news reports of such incidents not occurring.


A quick analysis of the number of news stories about people dying vs the number of news stories about people not dying reveals that the human race has less than a month before extinction.
2013-12-05 10:19:23 AM  
1 vote:

Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


Actually, it works quite well with you suggested substitution. Works for me anyway. I think our penalties for irresponsible driving are WAY too lax.
2013-12-05 10:19:18 AM  
1 vote:

Carn: You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.


You are correct. Only individuals who drive on public roads are required to pass a test, obtain a license and hold insurance. Individuals who drive exclusively on private roads are not subject to such requirements.
2013-12-05 10:19:05 AM  
1 vote:

HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.


Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.  I'm quite certain there are millions of kids out there who played with water guns and shot real guns with adults and never shot anyone.
2013-12-05 10:18:22 AM  
1 vote:
So the boyfriend had been playing the harmless, fun game earlier which certainly qualifies him for a Darwin award.
2013-12-05 10:16:03 AM  
1 vote:

topcon: Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.

Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.


Consider the number of news reports of such incidents occurring compared to the number of news reports of such incidents not occurring.
2013-12-05 10:15:34 AM  
1 vote:
After the friends were done playing with the gun, the gun's owner loaded the weapon and set it on a table.

Like putting Flipper in charge of the Titanic.
2013-12-05 10:11:31 AM  
1 vote:

OnlyM3: No charges being filed?
WTF?

If she had driven her car down the street like an idiot and turned some 8th grader into a stain she'd be behind bars. Which one of her family members is a cop ?


Yet someone else gets arrested for stealing 5 cents worth of electricity.
2013-12-05 10:11:01 AM  
1 vote:

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.
2013-12-05 10:09:43 AM  
1 vote:
"no true Gun Owner"
2013-12-05 09:48:53 AM  
1 vote:

i2.cdn.turner.com

Score!

2013-12-05 09:47:28 AM  
1 vote:

brandent: elvisaintdead: with a period, unlike the headline?

Why does Drew hate periods?


All his furniture is white.
2013-12-05 09:38:44 AM  
1 vote:
Well at least she learned a valuable lesson in gun safety.
2013-12-05 08:45:58 AM  
1 vote:
That's what they get for dry firing a gun.

/DNRTFA
 
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