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(Opposing Views)   "Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends   (opposingviews.com) divider line 417
    More: Florida, handguns, guns  
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7673 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 9:42 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 11:59:47 AM

Frank N Stein: Come at me bro.

[img.fark.net image 775x945]


You should add "Into The Wild"

/runs
 
2013-12-05 12:00:22 PM

jso2897: a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy

www.hotflick.net


Hammerson: Do you know why Americans love guns, Mr. Hertz? And it's got nothing to do with all that phallic mumbo-jumbo, "cockin' your gun." No, Hertz, people love guns because America is a land of opportunity, where a poor man can become rich, and a pussy can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand. Now, I'm hopin' you're not just a pussy with a gun in your hand.
Mr. Hertz: Oh no, sir. No, no, I am not. I'm a tough guy with a pussy in my hand.
 
2013-12-05 12:00:45 PM

Dinki: An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets**


I don't see how you could possibly hear crickets after things like this. Not over the screaming of gun owners pretending they're about to be persecuted...
 
2013-12-05 12:01:40 PM

Dimensio: By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.


Treat the disease, not the symptoms
 
2013-12-05 12:02:05 PM

R.A.Danny: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent.

Or maybe we just realize in our maturity how stupid we were in our youth, and know that if these young dingbats somehow avoid killing themselves by the time they get to our age they will realize the same thing.


Fair point.
 
2013-12-05 12:02:13 PM

Carn: So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?


I do agree that adding mandatory training in gun safety (a bit more than "don't touch a gun, it will explode in fiery death and shoot you!") in school.  Safety testing...firearms manufacturers do extensive testing, and issue recall notices the moment they realize something isn't quite right about a gun, even if it's relatively rare.  What regulations would you add that would prevent death that couldn't be circumvented by a motivated idiot?
 
2013-12-05 12:02:43 PM

trappedspirit: Dimensio: By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.

Treat the disease, not the symptoms


Seems to me that suicide is a self correcting issue.
 
2013-12-05 12:02:54 PM

imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.


No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.
 
2013-12-05 12:05:45 PM

R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

That is where you lost me. If you point a firearm at something and pull the trigger you are in fact culpable even if you honestly thought the weapon was not loaded.


But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.

I've handled guns since I was 8 yrs old. The very first rules "treat every gun you touch as though it were loaded and the safely is off".

But if you are a stupid noob that never handled guns before, you wouldn't have rules from which to act upon. Same thing as letting a kid with his learners permit go out and drive your car non-supervised. You wouldn;t allow that would you? But I bet the 15 yr old would be giddy with joy for you to permit it.
 
2013-12-05 12:06:20 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.


Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=
 
2013-12-05 12:07:03 PM

Billy Bathsalt: The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.


It was an accident that they let a legally retarded person handle a gun.
 
2013-12-05 12:07:13 PM

Ex-Texan: My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.


Women, right?  Sheesh!  My wife got miffed at me last night when the UPS guy showed up with three new rifles for me.  Somethingsomething "We don't have room for a third gun safe"something.

She calmed right down though when I pointed out that one of those rifles is her sons Christmas present.
 
2013-12-05 12:08:15 PM

jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent. You hear more stories like this not because stupid shiat like this is happening more frequently, but because you have access to a creation that brings more of these stories to the magic box you are reading them on.


Think about that for a moment...  you honestly believe that people 50 years ago would be able to "stunts" that today's generation are doing from example that they see through this magic box?

If yes, then how did they hear of it? (yes, it's a trick question, but shows a point that you appear to not have considered)

How many of these "stunts" are being recorded and broadcasted... and weren't done with the purpose of the broadcasting?

It's about consequences, and today's population are "learning" that actions that are "bad", still leads to fame, so it's ok to do them.  That's not very smart, no matter how you cut it.

Here you have kids playing with a gun... how did they get to the conclusion that it would be funny to play with a device which sole purpose is to kill?
 
2013-12-05 12:08:16 PM

CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
 
2013-12-05 12:09:08 PM

skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.


The most they could charge her with manslaughter. Murder requires intent. Manslaughter can be charged in cases of grotesque stupidity.
 
2013-12-05 12:09:30 PM
In what universe is it fun to dry fire a gun at someone?  I think that may be the dumbest game I've ever heard of.
If someone did that to me, I would immediately punch them in the face, and make sure they were never allowed to hold a gun again.

In this case, they played, then put the gun down, and went away for a while.  During the time, the owner came back and loaded the gun, for some unknown reason, and left it out in the same place.  Yeah...  That seems likely.

IMHO the girlfriend should be charged, at the least, with manslaughter.  She caused another person's death by her own stupidity and carelessness.  I think that's pretty easy to prove.  Even if the family doesn't want to press charges, the state certainly can.
 
2013-12-05 12:10:00 PM

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.

No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.


Good for you...  but I've wasted enough time on you already, you need stats and collaborating evidence, look them up, but I doubt that you're able to do so.
 
2013-12-05 12:10:43 PM

SpectroBoy: Billy Bathsalt: The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.

It was an accident that they let a legally retarded person handle a gun.


Negligent homicide comes to mind here.
 
2013-12-05 12:11:48 PM

Smidge204: Tell that to the people who protest background checks


Who would that be? I have not seen any protest specifically on background check.  I know that several folks (myslef included) did not support the last bout of legislation, because it was not just about background checks.

I'll bet that if you ask the 'protestors' directly, they would have no problem with the general concept of keeping guns away from violent criminals.
 
2013-12-05 12:11:54 PM
Its okay, she was just "Standing her ground."

Since they were all mentally deficient and incapable of providing consent I have good authority he was planning on raping her at some point of the night.
 
2013-12-05 12:13:30 PM
Theaetetus:
Data from the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) - violent incidents and deaths, death rates, and causes of injury mortality. Data provided for 16 states and are not nationally representative.
What about the other 34 states?


You can always look at other sources, since there are mandatory reporting laws for things like GSWs.
 
2013-12-05 12:13:43 PM

durbnpoisn: IMHO the girlfriend should be charged, at the least, with manslaughter. She caused another person's death by her own stupidity and carelessness. I think that's pretty easy to prove. Even if the family doesn't want to press charges, the state certainly can.


The question is... did they record it, and did she goes "bang" or "pew pew pew".. only to go "opps".

Sadly, how many times will the same scenario happen in just the next couple of months.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:03 PM

Doc Daneeka: Dimensio: HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths

Suicides should not be omitted from firearm death statistics. By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.

I see what you did there.

Nonetheless it's a fact that, other things being equal, easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.

Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one, and furthermore their suicide attempts are more likely to be successful.

It's not hard to understand that having a gun handy makes it much easier for a depressed person to act on a suicidal impulse that other methods which may require more effort, planning, or physical suffering.


I had a cousin that threw herself off a cliff.  On the morning of her older sister's rehersal dinner as well.  I doubt it took much planning, and there most likely wasn't any suffering from that height.

/I know what you're saying though...
 
2013-12-05 12:14:27 PM

Accordion: So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?


For the laffs.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:57 PM

metatronarchetype: Dry-firing isn't harmful to most centerfire guns, so at least the gun is going to be okay!


Maybe not.  It's most likely in an evidence locker somewhere, and it's entirely possible that the owner might have to sue LE to get it back.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:02 PM

stevarooni: Carn: So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?

I do agree that adding mandatory training in gun safety (a bit more than "don't touch a gun, it will explode in fiery death and shoot you!") in school.  Safety testing...firearms manufacturers do extensive testing, and issue recall notices the moment they realize something isn't quite right about a gun, even if it's relatively rare.  What regulations would you add that would prevent death that couldn't be circumvented by a motivated idiot?


Mandatory gun training, not in school, use the classes provided by the NRA but in addition, you must pass a written test and as well as a safety test on a range.  If you want to do like for driver's ed and have an after school class for kids who are 18 I'm fine with that.  You should have to retake both every 5 years (I feel you should have to do the same for driving).  We should have a no gun list which doctors should be required to add people to if they've been diagnosed with any serious psychotic disorder, in addition to felons, and when signing up for these tests would be a good time to check a person against this list.  That would be a start.  In addition I would be in favor of either an insurance requirement and/or much more severe penalties for people who are responsible for this kind of negligence.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:04 PM

CasperImproved: But if you are a stupid noob that never handled guns before, you wouldn't have rules from which to act upon.


Ignorance of the law....
 
2013-12-05 12:16:39 PM

TNel: That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.



Because an unloaded gun is either a club or a brick?
 
2013-12-05 12:16:56 PM

imfallen_angel: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent. You hear more stories like this not because stupid shiat like this is happening more frequently, but because you have access to a creation that brings more of these stories to the magic box you are reading them on.

Think about that for a moment...  you honestly believe that people 50 years ago would be able to "stunts" that today's generation are doing from example that they see through this magic box?


I don't know how to parse that abortion of a sentence.

If yes, then how did they hear of it? (yes, it's a trick question, but shows a point that you appear to not have considered)

Is it your assertion that people have to be given the idea to do stupid shiat and they wouldn't otherwise come up with it on their own?

How many of these "stunts" are being recorded and broadcasted... and weren't done with the purpose of the broadcasting?

Why does that matter?

It's about consequences, and today's population are "learning" that actions that are "bad", still leads to fame, so it's ok to do them.  That's not very smart, no matter how you cut it.

So it is your contention that the couple in TFA were doing this for "fame"?

Here you have kids playing with a gun... how did they get to the conclusion that it would be funny to play with a device which sole purpose is to kill?

Stupid is as stupid does, this is not new.

June 8, 1867: New York City, Arthur Day, a 13-year-old boy, secretly took a loaded pistol to Public School No. 18 to shoot a dog he said had bitten him. While playing with the pistol, Day accidentally shot and injured classmate Robert Morton.[5]

Goddamn that internet, making kids do stupid things for "fame" in 1867!
 
2013-12-05 12:17:05 PM

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.

No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.


imfallen_angel is the smartest person on the planet. Just ask him! He has consulted with kings and presidents! And don't even get him started about his girlfriend in Canada.
 
2013-12-05 12:18:47 PM

Dimensio: If the National Rifle Association truly is not trying to hide data, then for what reason is no one able to present statistics proving that concealed weapons permit holders commit murder at a rate greater than that of the general adult population?


Because the facts support the exact opposite, that CCW holders commit fewer murders per person than both Law Enforcement AND the general populace at large?
 
2013-12-05 12:19:28 PM

Smidge204: So no requirements for safety training or evaluation? Would you support written and/or practical testing prior to issuing a permit? How about revoking of permits/licenses for consistently irresponsible but not necessarily *criminal* behavior with a firearm? How about evaluation of mental health?


Safety training, possibly if done correctly.  Evaluation, no.  All of these 'tests' and evaluations' can be tampered with in order to short circut the rights enumerated in the consitution.  What if the goverment decides that the test should cost $25,000?  What if the evaluation was only done by Brady 'bunch' or the VPN?  For you to lose your consitutional right, you need to either be convicted in a court of law or be found unfit to have the mental capacity to excercise your consitutional right.

This, for your information, is called Due Process.  Maybe you should look it up.
 
2013-12-05 12:19:47 PM

HeadLever: Doc Daneeka: Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one,

Does that general statement include those that don't own a gun beforehand, but head off to the gun store in order to purchase one to do the job?  I would suspect that happens quite frequently.


Doc Daneeka is a pretty well-known anti-2nd Amendment troll...
 
2013-12-05 12:20:54 PM

stuffy: That is a really stupid thing to do. You could damage the gun.


Unless it was a rimfire, no, you can't.
 
2013-12-05 12:22:13 PM

R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET


RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:21 PM

justtray: Millions of flights have not been hijacked by terrorists, but you still get treated like one every time you go through security.


They make terrorists take off their shoes and walk through metal detectors and then let them go?  I'm not expert criminologist but I think they need to toughen up their terrorist treatment policy a bit then.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:21 PM

Guadior42: R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.


According to Cooper your 5 is covered by his 4. But yes.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:29 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

Is there something wrong with jacking each other off?


Not if you don't make eye contact.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:56 PM

jst3p: So, she's single?


You know the old adage...'No matter how hot she is, someone, somewhere, is bleeding to death from a sucking chest wound'
 
2013-12-05 12:25:09 PM

HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths


This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?
 
2013-12-05 12:25:21 PM

jst3p: So it is your contention that the couple in TFA were doing this for "fame"?


No, that a lack of common sense is normal, because the magic box told them.
 
2013-12-05 12:26:02 PM

imfallen_angel: Good for you... but I've wasted enough time on you already, you need stats and collaborating evidence, look them up, but I doubt that you're able to do so.


Exactly, becuase the entire assertion was likely bunk to begin with.  Your inability and unwillingness to provide any backup seems to support this arguemnt.
 
2013-12-05 12:26:37 PM

justtray: Millions of flights have not been hijacked by terrorists, but you still get treated like one every time you go through security.


This is a dumb comment. I started to refute it, but it is best just to point out how stupid this comment is, and rest assured that anyone with an ounce of cognition will immediately recognize that this is a stupid comment.
 
2013-12-05 12:27:58 PM

Secret Master of All Flatulence: This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?


No no no, all gun owners are fat white GOPpers, and all anti gun types are Obama.
 
2013-12-05 12:28:25 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: HeadLever: Doc Daneeka: Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one,

Does that general statement include those that don't own a gun beforehand, but head off to the gun store in order to purchase one to do the job?  I would suspect that happens quite frequently.

Doc Daneeka is a pretty well-known anti-2nd Amendment troll...


Being in favor of stronger gun control laws makes one a troll now.

The word has lost all meaning.
 
2013-12-05 12:28:48 PM

Smidge204: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.

Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=


I'm pretty sure that if you're currently in jail on a felony conviction, you're not allowed to own a gun, either.
 
2013-12-05 12:29:42 PM

jst3p: Goddamn that internet, making kids do stupid things for "fame" in 1867!


hmm.. the point is that there's always been stupid people doing stupid things, but now, thanks to the magic box, we do have a scenario of "hold my beer and watch this" that's been elevated to worldwide status.

And while most don't involve guns, many results in people doing stupid stuff for the reasons that I've already stated to death.

If you don't believe that at some point, in some way, there's some factors that plays into why people do stupid things, well.. what can I say.

Anyways... you appear to miss my point anyways and I have better things to do.
 
2013-12-05 12:30:19 PM

R.A.Danny: Guadior42: R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.

According to Cooper your 5 is covered by his 4. But yes.


True. I find being a little more explicit when trying to pound sense into people is a good thing to do.
 
2013-12-05 12:30:44 PM

Doc Daneeka: The word has lost all meaning.


I generally ignore your posts as well. You really don't bring anything to the table that reasonable people can use.
 
2013-12-05 12:31:00 PM

Carn: Mandatory gun training, not in school, use the classes provided by the NRA but in addition, you must pass a written test and as well as a safety test on a range.  If you want to do like for driver's ed and have an after school class for kids who are 18 I'm fine with that.  You should have to retake both every 5 years (I feel you should have to do the same for driving).  We should have a no gun list which doctors should be required to add people to if they've been diagnosed with any serious psychotic disorder, in addition to felons, and when signing up for these tests would be a good time to check a person against this list.  That would be a start.  In addition I would be in favor of either an insurance requirement and/or much more severe penalties for people who are responsible for this kind of negligence.


Ah, you're talking about to own a gun...I think that mandatory safety training (with optional firearms practical), in-school, should be a requirement for graduation.  But just the one time; just as people aren't required to take a poll test to exercise their right to vote.  A list of felons and involuntarily committed/deemed incompetent folks already exists for background checks, though unfortunately it isn't as regularly updated by all states as it ought to be (Virginia improved their reporting after the VTech murders).

Insurance requirements are kind of silly.  Most car insurance carriers will refuse to cover damage caused by the car in the knowing commission of a crime.  The penalties for negligence like this are pretty severe, if they're enforced.  In this case, for some reason the cops seem to think that this idiot isn't responsible for her own actions.  Usually it takes a judge to assign mental incompetence, and a caretaker would be assigned, but apparently that's not the case here.  :-P
 
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