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(Opposing Views)   "Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends   (opposingviews.com) divider line 417
    More: Florida, handguns, guns  
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7687 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 9:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 10:55:26 AM  

TwowheelinTim: Notice I qualified that with "most likely".


I still take exception with that assumption and point at the tag attached to the headline to support my reasoning.
 
2013-12-05 10:55:43 AM  
He's just lucky it happened where it did.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, but in Florida you can get away with murder.

/This will finally end the reign of Florida Man, unlike that kill family with crossbow and slit his own throat incident down the page.
//He's harder to keep down than the Dread Pirate Roberts
 
2013-12-05 10:58:03 AM  

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.
 
2013-12-05 10:58:24 AM  
I would be ok with charging everyone involved with negligent homicide. All guns are loaded.

I know for a fact that my pistols are not loaded, have the magazines out and safeties on, yet I still check to make sure they are unloaded before I pull them out of their case or hand them off to someone. And even then if I have to dry fire it I don't point it at anything. Just common sense.

Yeah keeping them unloaded and in a locked box makes them useless for home defense but not why I won them anyways.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:18 AM  

skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".


Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:19 AM  

Carousel Beast: Carn: Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.

You just can't let go of your derp long enough to think, can you?

Let's base this on your own argument (bolded, above). There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Links:

Death Rate (CDC)
Number of passenger vehicles
Number of guns

/Idiot? Look in the mirror, pal


So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?  The perfect is the enemy of the good?  And if you want to make a fair comparison, instead of deaths per capita you might measure deaths per mile driven or deaths per minute/hour driving vs gun deaths per min/hour used.  Or take gun deaths divided by number of gun owners rather than per capita.  And it's completely ridiculous anyway, since vehicles have a purpose that is non-violent, we heavily regulate them, and there are still accidents and deaths.  Guns have a violent purpose, we regulate them less heavily, and there are accidents and deaths.  tada?

For the record, I'm a huge believer that it should be much harder to get a driver's license, that there are an awful lot of people who have one that shouldn't, and that penalties for negligent and irresponsible behavior when driving should be higher.
 
2013-12-05 11:00:13 AM  

TNel: HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.

That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.


My dad always kept his pistol in the safe. However, the shotgun sat in the closet next to the ammo. As for me, I keep my PPQ in my nightstand drawer, though I don't keep one in the chamber.
 
2013-12-05 11:01:07 AM  

imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.


Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"
 
2013-12-05 11:01:56 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.


lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.
 
2013-12-05 11:02:11 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: AirForceVet: /Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.

Sure you can.  Google "WISQARS".  You can get all kinds of data, including suicide by gun, and the NRA has done NOTHING to prevent that kind of data.  Why, you ask?  Well, it could be because it proves that things like accident by guns have been consistently becoming more and more rare, but the truth is that you're most likely confusing actual crime reports with the highly-speculative anti-gun propaganda that was produced by the CDC decades ago.

Oh, and guns don't CAUSE suicide...at best, there's a correlation, most likely because people who really want to commit suicide tend to know that the most effective way to do so is to shoot themselves, so they might buy a gun to do it.   Correlation /= Causation.


If the National Rifle Association truly is not trying to hide data, then for what reason is no one able to present statistics proving that concealed weapons permit holders commit murder at a rate greater than that of the general adult population?
 
2013-12-05 11:02:15 AM  

Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Y

ou're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)
 
2013-12-05 11:04:41 AM  
i18.photobucket.com
Opposed to gun control.
And I agree.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:10 AM  
"Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends

Exactly as God intended.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:22 AM  

TNel: Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?


For self defense, you need to have a gun easily accessible with ammunition nearby.  I agree that is is really dumb to keep one in the chamber and to keep it within reach of uneducated kids.

Growing up, I was drilled to have a healthy respect for guns and never felt the need or desire to play with any of them.  I was also threatened with the beating of a lifetime if I was ever caught playing or acting irresponsibly around any gun.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:42 AM  
1. Bear the thousand injuries of Fortunado as best you can, but when he ventures upon insult...
2. Spend the day dry firing a gun with the whole gang
3. Quietly load it and leave it on the table
4. "In pace requiescat!"
 
2013-12-05 11:06:31 AM  

Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)


Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.
 
2013-12-05 11:08:16 AM  

Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.


He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?
 
2013-12-05 11:09:27 AM  

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.
 
2013-12-05 11:09:29 AM  

you are a puppet: 1. Bear the thousand injuries of Fortunado as best you can, but when he ventures upon insult...
2. Spend the day dry firing a gun with the whole gang
3. Quietly load it and leave it on the table
4. "In pace requiescat!"


That was the curious part of the story for me, as well. Why, after observing his friends dry-firing his gun, would he then wait until they weren't around, load it, and then leave it out once again?
 
2013-12-05 11:10:15 AM  

Glendale: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x595]


That is the most disturbing thing I have ever read.
 
2013-12-05 11:10:45 AM  

Adss2009: Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.


Do they take into account the deaths that are actually for the common good? Do people regularly use cars for self defense or suicide? Does any of this have any bearing on rights in general?
 
2013-12-05 11:10:48 AM  

MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.


...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.
 
2013-12-05 11:11:07 AM  

HeadLever: However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one. These are the kids really don't know the difference.


Indeed, this Ignorance = Safety model leads to shooting deaths, overdose, alcohol poisoning, STD, and unwanted pregnancy.

I've taught my kids firearms safety in part because we like to go target shooting, but also because I don't want them ever to be in the position where some kid found dad's pistol and "hey, let's play soldier". Kids will be curious and if all they know is what's on TV, they will be stupid-curious, and that's no good.
 
2013-12-05 11:12:29 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?


That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".
 
2013-12-05 11:12:32 AM  

FormlessOne: MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.

...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.


I can't argue this. There are multiple culpable parties here as well. A day spent dry firing at people is a recipe for disaster.
 
2013-12-05 11:12:50 AM  
Guns aren't toys, and who the hell leaves a loaded gun just lying around anyway? Everyone involved in that story is a moron.
 
2013-12-05 11:13:02 AM  

jso2897: Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)

Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.



All right, will an NRA source work better for you?  80 million households own a firearm of any kind in america.
NRA   Doesn't change the numbers though
 
2013-12-05 11:13:27 AM  

Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".


I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.
 
2013-12-05 11:14:53 AM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"


meh... there's a difference between educated and able to certain things and true intelligence.

The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern, with this generation believing that any sort of worth is how popular and famous you can be, all the while mooching off the older generation with a self-serving attitude.  And the following generation are to be the product of this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills.

So it's not a question of "pegging" anything, it's observation.

But go ahead and keep assuming your crap.. it's funny to see one of your kind scrambling to look smart.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:32 AM  

R.A.Danny: Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".

I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.


Damn it. Welp, coffee's done brewing not a moment too soon.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:50 AM  

Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".


I was being facetious (Poe's Law strikes again). It's odd how people point to stories like this and then claim it's the typical behavior of "gun owners" in general, especially considering you ever hear of any mishandling by 99% of firearm owners.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:57 AM  

Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.


Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths
 
2013-12-05 11:16:56 AM  

R.A.Danny: Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".

I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.


So you guys want Holt's parents arrested and poor Mr. RGO left alone?
 
2013-12-05 11:17:46 AM  

R.A.Danny: Do they take into account the deaths that are actually for the common good?


Hmm. Now there's an interesting concept. As far as that goes, I am sure that a lot of terrible people die in automobile crashes. Think of all the rape, and child molesting, and theft, and terrorism that didn't happen because the perps died in a car wreck before they could do it. We need to adjust automotive death figures to adjust for those deaths that were for the good of humanity.
 
2013-12-05 11:18:17 AM  

Knarf: Not that tragic of a story, just farking stupid. Irresponsible gun owners are doing more damage to "gun rights" than any anti-gun activist.

/never point a gun at something you dont intend to destroy


When you have friends over dry firing your gun for fun, don't load it when their not looking, and put it back out on the table.

/There should be some kind of criminal charges having to do with wreckless endangerment.
 
2013-12-05 11:18:20 AM  

HeadLever: I agree that is is really dumb to keep one in the chamber and to keep it within reach of uneducated kids.


Educated or not kids shouldn't have access to weapons without their parents. Nobody wants to believe it will be their kids who brings a gun to school, brings a gun to a fight, or shoots himself, but it happens.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:11 AM  

imfallen_angel: HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

meh... there's a difference between educated and able to certain things and true intelligence.

The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern, with this generation believing that any sort of worth is how popular and famous you can be, all the while mooching off the older generation with a self-serving attitude.  And the following generation are to be the product of this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills.

So it's not a question of "pegging" anything, it's observation.

But go ahead and keep assuming your crap.. it's funny to see one of your kind scrambling to look smart.


okay, I  agree with you except for one detail.  " this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills. Sadly,  I beleive that an argument can be made that they are correct in that assumption.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:28 AM  

Adss2009: jso2897: Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)

Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.


All right, will an NRA source work better for you?  80 million households own a firearm of any kind in america.
NRA   Doesn't change the numbers though


Uh, dude? JK - lighten up.
 
2013-12-05 11:21:54 AM  

lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?


Is that the strange fantasy that you jack off to?

/NTTAWWT
 
2013-12-05 11:23:25 AM  

Rizhail: And once again, a senseless death could have been avoided had the folks involved followed Rule One of gun safety: ALWAYS TREAT THE GODDAMNED GUN LIKE IT'S LOADED. No exceptions. If the firearm in question is not currently in pieces for storage/cleaning, then you don't look down the farking barrel, you don't pull the trigger unless you want to shoot something, and you sure as hell don't point the goddamned thing at something that you aren't willing to kill!

Hell, I've known this shiat since I was 6. The hunter's safety course I was in at age 9 drilled that damned phrase in every five minutes or so. Always treat a gun as though it's loaded, and you're far less likely to do something stupid like shoot your boyfriend.


talkaboutwidget.hmbreview.com


"I'm not seeing the problem here..."
 
2013-12-05 11:23:28 AM  
CasperImproved:

/There should be some kind of criminal charges having to do with wreckless endangerment.

But there was a wreck!
 
2013-12-05 11:24:02 AM  

FormlessOne: MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.

...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.


I actually had written that negligence or manslaughter would be appropriate, but deleted that when I realized I did not know the legal definitions of either.

I do agree withe the family, though.  If we are talking merely about punishment, I don't think anything the state can do would be worse than what the shooter is going through right now.
 
2013-12-05 11:24:08 AM  

imfallen_angel: The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern,


That was not your origional premis, was it?  Now you are moving the goalpost from "most of the population are idiots to start with" to now only account for Millennials who only account for about 25% of the population.

Spotting your logical fallacies is not very difficult.  In fact, I would bet that most of the population could identify them quite easily.

/I could be wrong though.
 
2013-12-05 11:25:27 AM  

GanjSmokr: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

Is that the strange fantasy that you jack off to?

/NTTAWWT


I had actually thought that Craigslist ad the guy posted would end the discussion. After seeing it, I know I no longer feel like talking about guys stroking anything, under any circumstances. I mean - did you READ that ad?
 
2013-12-05 11:25:29 AM  

HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths


Suicides should not be omitted from firearm death statistics. By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.
 
2013-12-05 11:26:21 AM  
jso2897:  Uh, dude? JK - lighten up.

touche
 
2013-12-05 11:28:07 AM  
Well she did hit center mass. At least she's got good trigger control.

www.batf.com
 
2013-12-05 11:28:10 AM  
I think what's more concerning is the owner who loaded the weapon and then just left it laying non chalantly on the kitchen table! WTF?
Unless you're the ONLY person in the house you should never ever leave a loaded weapon just laying around anywhere.
 
2013-12-05 11:29:33 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?


You don't need a safety course to learn not to point a gun at someone's chest and pull the trigger.
 
2013-12-05 11:30:04 AM  

rkettens: okay, I agree with you except for one detail. " this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills. Sadly, I beleive that an argument can be made that they are correct in that assumption.


Interesting point...

So you're thinking that "fame" brings them towards a better life overall, riches, which could be seen as "success"?

True that so many have become rich due to having celebrity status (Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, etc.) via scadals, etc.

But the point of my initial post was about actual intelligence....

As per, if we needed to rebuild the world... who would truly be important... the drooling ones that manage to be in the media due to scandals or something fairly idiotic, or the doctors, engineers, etc.
 
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