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(Opposing Views)   "Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends   (opposingviews.com) divider line 417
    More: Florida, handguns, guns  
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7687 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 Dec 2013 at 9:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



417 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-05 08:45:58 AM  
That's what they get for dry firing a gun.

/DNRTFA
 
2013-12-05 09:08:29 AM  
with a period, unlike the headline?
 
2013-12-05 09:17:53 AM  
Any story that begins with people "playing" with guns is doomed from the start.

Typical lamestream media, never reporting on all of the *good* gunplay days.
 
2013-12-05 09:25:15 AM  
He fixes the cable?
 
2013-12-05 09:28:13 AM  
FTA: As heartbreaking as Holt's death is, he is far from the first person to be killed in an accidental shooting even this year. According to Policy Mic, accidental shootings killed 851 Americans in 2012.

I wonder how many of those accidental shootings were Darwin Awards, unlike this sad case.

/Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.
 
2013-12-05 09:38:44 AM  
Well at least she learned a valuable lesson in gun safety.
 
2013-12-05 09:44:58 AM  

elvisaintdead: with a period, unlike the headline?


Why does Drew hate periods?
 
2013-12-05 09:45:06 AM  
Boca Raton police interviewed all witnesses of the shooting. Everyone present gave the same account of events and confirmed that the shooting was absolutely an accident.

The definition of "accident" becomes pretty expansive when a gun is involved.
 
2013-12-05 09:46:43 AM  
The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.
 
2013-12-05 09:47:28 AM  

brandent: elvisaintdead: with a period, unlike the headline?

Why does Drew hate periods?


All his furniture is white.
 
2013-12-05 09:48:25 AM  

elvisaintdead: with a period, unlike the headline?


Since when do Fark headlines end with a period?
 
2013-12-05 09:48:53 AM  

i2.cdn.turner.com

Score!

 
2013-12-05 09:48:54 AM  
More retarded people with guns ruining to for responsible adults.
 
2013-12-05 09:50:15 AM  
She'll grow up to be a single cat lady for life.
 
2013-12-05 09:50:21 AM  

AirForceVet: FTA: As heartbreaking as Holt's death is, he is far from the first person to be killed in an accidental shooting even this year. According to Policy Mic, accidental shootings killed 851 Americans in 2012.

I wonder how many of those accidental shootings were Darwin Awards, unlike this sad case.

/Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.


Or, alternatively, perhaps accurate compilation of such data requires time, and at present accurate data is available only up through 2011.

However, I suspect that your belief that the National Rifle Association somehow "fights" collection of suicide data is far more likely.
 
2013-12-05 09:50:50 AM  
Not sure whether to blame Florida or girlfriend.

/why not both?
 
2013-12-05 09:51:19 AM  
 Someone picked up my firearm by mistake, ma'am, and someone got shot.

yes, the mistake was picking it up.
that is true
 
2013-12-05 09:51:25 AM  
Everybody's responsible, until they aren't.  Nothing can be done, NOTHING.  It's like an unsolvable equation, immovable object, Carrot Top's hair.
 
2013-12-05 09:53:14 AM  
memecrunch.com

/treat every weapon as if it is loaded
 
2013-12-05 09:53:20 AM  
Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.
 
2013-12-05 09:53:49 AM  
Not that tragic of a story, just farking stupid. Irresponsible gun owners are doing more damage to "gun rights" than any anti-gun activist.

/never point a gun at something you dont intend to destroy
 
2013-12-05 09:55:56 AM  
It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.
 
2013-12-05 09:56:57 AM  
Oh, my. This happened near to where I live (which is not at all a Podunkville like where these accidents tend to happen).
 
2013-12-05 09:57:24 AM  

brandent: Why does Drew hate periods?


They're a bloody nuisance.
 
2013-12-05 10:00:14 AM  
One of the more obscure gun safety rules: Don't pick up a gun, point it at someone's chest and pull the trigger as joke.
 
2013-12-05 10:00:22 AM  
Unavailable for comment. Has to be at the casino in 26 minutes.

instinctmagazine.com
 
2013-12-05 10:00:29 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: Oh, my. This happened near to where I live (which is not at all a Podunkville like where these accidents tend to happen).


I just realized I saw a TV truck at the complex where this happened and, until now, had no idea what it was about.
 
2013-12-05 10:01:04 AM  

basemetal: That's what they get for dry firing a gun.

/DNRTFA


There's nothing wrong with dry firing certain guns (while some designs, or rimfires, are bad to dry fire,) in fact it's encouraged in some cases to loosen the gun up, and can be used for training.

Dry firing guns while pointing them at people, however, is a different story.
 
2013-12-05 10:01:37 AM  
My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.
 
2013-12-05 10:02:33 AM  
Can we arrest the gun owner for being a total dipsh*t and letting them play with his gun?
 
2013-12-05 10:02:40 AM  

MelGoesOnTour: Oh, my. This happened near to where I live (which is not at all a Podunkville like where these accidents tend to happen).


George Takei?
 
2013-12-05 10:02:59 AM  

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


They'll probably disappear faster if you don't lock them up.
 
2013-12-05 10:03:17 AM  
so the friend quietly loaded the gun and left it there on the table?

What a pal.
 
2013-12-05 10:04:21 AM  

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


But he was also dry-firing it. So, he was attempting to murder her and it was self defense.  Therefore she's a role-model for gun rights and feminism.
 
2013-12-05 10:04:35 AM  
But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.
 
2013-12-05 10:04:42 AM  
The gun owner should be held partly responsible for leaving their gun outside of their control.

IF anyone takes responsible gun ownership seriously.
 
2013-12-05 10:05:19 AM  
No charges being filed?
WTF?

If she had driven her car down the street like an idiot and turned some 8th grader into a stain she'd be behind bars. Which one of her family members is a cop ?
 
2013-12-05 10:06:17 AM  
And once again, a senseless death could have been avoided had the folks involved followed Rule One of gun safety: ALWAYS TREAT THE GODDAMNED GUN LIKE IT'S LOADED. No exceptions. If the firearm in question is not currently in pieces for storage/cleaning, then you don't look down the farking barrel, you don't pull the trigger unless you want to shoot something, and you sure as hell don't point the goddamned thing at something that you aren't willing to kill!

Hell, I've known this shiat since I was 6. The hunter's safety course I was in at age 9 drilled that damned phrase in every five minutes or so. Always treat a gun as though it's loaded, and you're far less likely to do something stupid like shoot your boyfriend.
 
2013-12-05 10:06:52 AM  
Knarf

Not that tragic of a story, just farking stupid. Irresponsible gun owners are doing more damage to "gun rights" than any anti-gun activist.

/never point a gun at something you dont intend to destroy


Damn straight. This is the shiat they teach you DAY 1 of firearms safety courses.
 
2013-12-05 10:07:40 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.


What about bent sticks? Or their finger? Dear god what if they got ahold of a Poptart!
 
2013-12-05 10:09:05 AM  
This is just part of the war on Christmas.
 
2013-12-05 10:09:43 AM  
"no true Gun Owner"
 
2013-12-05 10:10:55 AM  

Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.


Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.
 
2013-12-05 10:11:01 AM  

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.
 
2013-12-05 10:11:31 AM  

OnlyM3: No charges being filed?
WTF?

If she had driven her car down the street like an idiot and turned some 8th grader into a stain she'd be behind bars. Which one of her family members is a cop ?


Yet someone else gets arrested for stealing 5 cents worth of electricity.
 
2013-12-05 10:11:37 AM  

ManateeGag: More retarded people with guns ruining to for responsible adults.


There isn't much objection to the idea that guns should be kept out of the hands of criminals, and there's only a moderate amount of objection to the idea that guns should be kept out of the hands of complete morons and the chronically irresponsible.

The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.

I think the reason is they're afraid they won't pass the test themselves. Which probably means they, too, should not be allowed access to firearms.
=Smidge=
 
2013-12-05 10:12:09 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.


That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.
 
2013-12-05 10:13:02 AM  
Guns don't kill people, isolated incidents kill people.
 
2013-12-05 10:13:49 AM  
I don't know, I was taught not to dry fire a weapon (unless to test the firing mechanism). simply because the firing pin can over extend with no primer to hit.
/but, I'm sure I'm wrong.
 
2013-12-05 10:15:34 AM  
After the friends were done playing with the gun, the gun's owner loaded the weapon and set it on a table.

Like putting Flipper in charge of the Titanic.
 
2013-12-05 10:16:03 AM  

topcon: Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.

Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.


Consider the number of news reports of such incidents occurring compared to the number of news reports of such incidents not occurring.
 
2013-12-05 10:16:15 AM  

topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.


How nice for you.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:10 AM  

Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:22 AM  
So the boyfriend had been playing the harmless, fun game earlier which certainly qualifies him for a Darwin award.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:37 AM  
I first read that as "Deep-Frying".
Would have ended the same.
 
2013-12-05 10:19:05 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.


Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.  I'm quite certain there are millions of kids out there who played with water guns and shot real guns with adults and never shot anyone.
 
2013-12-05 10:19:06 AM  

skozlaw: If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


That's a great idea.  I can do one better: in any criminal case where the accused is convicted, and a gun was used in the incident, swap out the jury for the sentencing phase with one drawn entirely from current and paid-up NRA members.

You'd see a lot of sentences passed down including the phrase "without possibility of parole".
 
2013-12-05 10:19:14 AM  
I was witness to the exact same event in highschool, except it was a gas powered airsoft pistol. Kids messing around with it (dry firing, even worse for airsoft guns than it is for most real firearms), owner came back and loaded it. Guy took a pellet to the chin.

/end csb.
 
2013-12-05 10:19:18 AM  

Carn: You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.


You are correct. Only individuals who drive on public roads are required to pass a test, obtain a license and hold insurance. Individuals who drive exclusively on private roads are not subject to such requirements.
 
2013-12-05 10:19:23 AM  

Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


Actually, it works quite well with you suggested substitution. Works for me anyway. I think our penalties for irresponsible driving are WAY too lax.
 
2013-12-05 10:20:01 AM  

Dimensio: topcon: Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.

Yeah, because this happens to a majority of gun owners.

Consider the number of news reports of such incidents occurring compared to the number of news reports of such incidents not occurring.


A quick analysis of the number of news stories about people dying vs the number of news stories about people not dying reveals that the human race has less than a month before extinction.
 
2013-12-05 10:22:07 AM  
Holt and his friends playing around with a gun and dry firing it at each other sounds just as smart as.

GASOLINE FIGHT!

i406.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-05 10:23:30 AM  

topcon: HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.

Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.  I'm quite certain there are millions of kids out there who played with water guns and shot real guns with adults and never shot anyone.


Eh, I don't think you'll convince him otherwise. He replaced his flooring with wood laminate after catching his nephew pretending that the carpet was hot lava.
 
2013-12-05 10:23:35 AM  
Is she hot? This is important now that she's single
 
2013-12-05 10:23:37 AM  

topcon: HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.

Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.


Or your average cop, that blow away kids with toy guns routinely.
 
2013-12-05 10:25:56 AM  
Responsible Gun OwnershipTM
 
2013-12-05 10:26:47 AM  

the_celt: [memecrunch.com image 553x484]

/treat every weapon as if it is loaded


This.

JRoo: The gun owner should be held partly responsible for leaving their gun outside of their control.

IF anyone takes responsible gun ownership seriously.


And that.
 
2013-12-05 10:29:10 AM  

Smidge204: The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.


You are completly wrong about the criminal part.  No one that I know is resistant to the idea of keeping violent criminals from guns.

The moron argument has you playing one.  Being a moron is a subjective qualifcation and in that context, is an arbitrary and capricious limitation on an enumerated right.

And what happened to your gun-troll alt?  Did it get banned or something?  You are never in smidge form in these threads.
 
2013-12-05 10:29:31 AM  

AirForceVet: FTA: As heartbreaking as Holt's death is, he is far from the first person to be killed in an accidental shooting even this year. According to Policy Mic, accidental shootings killed 851 Americans in 2012.

I wonder how many of those accidental shootings were Darwin Awards, unlike this sad case.

/Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.


Why do you hate Jesus and freedoms you commie/sooshulist?
 
2013-12-05 10:31:04 AM  
So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?
 
2013-12-05 10:31:32 AM  

browneye: After the friends were done playing with the gun, the gun's owner loaded the weapon and set it on a table.

Like putting Flipper Helen Keller in charge of the Titanic.


FTFY
 
2013-12-05 10:32:33 AM  

Accordion: So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?


A weapon unused is a useless weapon.
 
2013-12-05 10:34:10 AM  

topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.


Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.
 
2013-12-05 10:35:30 AM  
If only he would have had a gun too, this could have been avoided....


But seriously... the gun`s owner loading it and leaving it on table is an idiot... put a safety one it, a lock, something, anything if it`s going to be loaded... not leaving it on the freaking table.

They should all be charged...


/`murikans with their penis replacements... such derpage
 
2013-12-05 10:35:54 AM  

Carousel Beast: Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


No, I won't, because unlike you I understand how analogies work.

However, I'm absolutely in favor of much, MUCH more severe punishments for people who hurt and kill others behind the wheel while acting irresponsibly.

Let's start with texters who cause fatal crashes. Lock the farkers up. Thirty years mandatory minimum with no chance of parole would be a good starting point, I think. There's no need to have such mindless individuals wandering around in society causing problems for everyone else.
 
2013-12-05 10:37:07 AM  
According to Florida news station WPBF, Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day.

I begin to understand how Dubstep came to be labeled music instead of noise.
 
2013-12-05 10:37:43 AM  
I take down my gun when I leave the car...so potential thief has to find all the bits. Steyr m9. One day a round stuck in the throat prior to the dry fire need for the take down, and live fired. Never again. Double and triple check now--as I should have then. Thank god for guardian angels.
 
2013-12-05 10:38:26 AM  

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


Overall, most of the population are idiots to start with, raising kids to be just as stupid.. and that between movies, TV shows, and video games, how many kids might get the wrong impression to guns... and well.. if they see them as toys... this stuff happens.
 
2013-12-05 10:40:00 AM  

Carn: Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.


You just can't let go of your derp long enough to think, can you?

Let's base this on your own argument (bolded, above). There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Links:

Death Rate (CDC)
Number of passenger vehicles
Number of guns

/Idiot? Look in the mirror, pal
 
2013-12-05 10:41:45 AM  

skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.


No.  Negligent homicide.

imfallen_angel: But seriously... the gun`s owner loading it and leaving it on table is an idiot... put a safety one it, a lock, something, anything if it`s going to be loaded... not leaving it on the freaking table.


Yup.  The owner deserves a charge for that nonsense, also.
 
2013-12-05 10:41:52 AM  

Accordion: So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?


READY FOR A HOME INVASION.

Not ready for friends.
 
2013-12-05 10:41:56 AM  

skozlaw: Let's start with texters who cause fatal crashes. Lock the farkers up. Thirty years mandatory minimum with no chance of parole would be a good starting point, I think. There's no need to have such mindless individuals wandering around in society causing problems for everyone else.


Agreed.
ANd no DL when they get out.
 
2013-12-05 10:42:56 AM  

topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.


This guy did.

www.examiner.com
 
2013-12-05 10:43:20 AM  

AirForceVet: /Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.


Sure you can.  Google "WISQARS".  You can get all kinds of data, including suicide by gun, and the NRA has done NOTHING to prevent that kind of data.  Why, you ask?  Well, it could be because it proves that things like accident by guns have been consistently becoming more and more rare, but the truth is that you're most likely confusing actual crime reports with the highly-speculative anti-gun propaganda that was produced by the CDC decades ago.

Oh, and guns don't CAUSE suicide...at best, there's a correlation, most likely because people who really want to commit suicide tend to know that the most effective way to do so is to shoot themselves, so they might buy a gun to do it.   Correlation /= Causation.
 
2013-12-05 10:43:35 AM  
Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?
 
2013-12-05 10:44:58 AM  

skozlaw: Carousel Beast: Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

No, I won't, because unlike you I understand how analogies work.

However, I'm absolutely in favor of much, MUCH more severe punishments for people who hurt and kill others behind the wheel while acting irresponsibly.

Let's start with texters who cause fatal crashes. Lock the farkers up. Thirty years mandatory minimum with no chance of parole would be a good starting point, I think. There's no need to have such mindless individuals wandering around in society causing problems for everyone else.


You apparently don't understand analogies at all since I didn't make one. But thanks for trolling.
 
2013-12-05 10:45:23 AM  
They should ALL be arrested......unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime.  The gun owner was probably secretly in love with the victims girlfriend, so he figured if he put bullets in the gun he could get rid of the only one standing in his way.....too bad it happened to be her that pulled the trigger.  Seriously though, you NEVER point a gun at someone unless you are prepared to shoot them, even if you know the gun is not loaded and especially if you have no idea if it's loaded, what a waste.  Also, I hardly think this qualifies for a Florida tag...."Dumbass" yes, "Moron" yes, but not Florida.
 
2013-12-05 10:45:26 AM  

imfallen_angel: Overall, most of the population are idiots to start with, raising kids to be just as stupid..


But yet gun deaths are falling and folks are living longer.  Methinks that you spend too much time buried in florida news stories in your mom's basement and not enough time living in the real world.

Yes, there are dumb folks out there, but trying to convince yourself that most are simpleton idots is a good way to keep your empathy at a minimum and your callousness turned up to 11.
 
2013-12-05 10:45:55 AM  

lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?


Is there something wrong with jacking each other off?
 
2013-12-05 10:45:55 AM  

OnlyM3: No charges being filed?
WTF?


It's Florida and she's white.
 
2013-12-05 10:47:33 AM  
People dying acting like morons is OK by everyone on Fark but as soon as people are acting like morons WITH A GUN.  Suddenly its gun outrage, idiots are idiots gun or not if this hadn't killed them they just would have died trying to lick a downed power cable or something.
 
2013-12-05 10:49:10 AM  

BR549: They should ALL be arrested......unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime.


Doing something so stupid and reckless that it kills somebody is a crime.
 
2013-12-05 10:49:54 AM  

lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-05 10:50:09 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: AirForceVet: /Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.

Sure you can.  Google "WISQARS".  You can get all kinds of data, including suicide by gun, and the NRA has done NOTHING to prevent that kind of data.


From WISQAR's page:
Data from the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) - violent incidents and deaths, death rates, and causes of injury mortality. Data provided for 16 states and are not nationally representative.
What about the other 34 states?
 
2013-12-05 10:52:21 AM  

Loren: No. Negligent homicide.


I don't think you could make a case for accomplices with that. You need something that everyone involved goes down for since it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident". The fact that the girl was the on that actually wound up shooting anybody was simply a matter of misfortune, they're all to blame for the event.

Carousel Beast: You apparently don't understand analogies at all since I didn't make one


So you think automobiles are a literal stand-in for firearms and the two can actually be used interchangeably per your suggestion?

Sounds about right considering the sensibility of anything else you ever post.
 
2013-12-05 10:52:30 AM  

abhorrent1: Is she hot? This is important now that she's single


Yeah, and at least she's most likely learned her lesson about pointing a gun and pulling the trigger so you probably won't have to worry about her unintentionally shooting you.

Notice I qualified that with "most likely".
 
2013-12-05 10:52:36 AM  
And if she misses we never hear about it.
 
2013-12-05 10:54:22 AM  

Accordion: So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?


'cause purtekshun man, purtekshun.
 
2013-12-05 10:54:39 AM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: Overall, most of the population are idiots to start with, raising kids to be just as stupid..

But yet gun deaths are falling and folks are living longer.  Methinks that you spend too much time buried in florida news stories in your mom's basement and not enough time living in the real world.

Yes, there are dumb folks out there, but trying to convince yourself that most are simpleton idots is a good way to keep your empathy at a minimum and your callousness turned up to 11.


I believe that the population's expansion is maintaining a level of balance for the smarter people, but that overall, more stupid ones ar born each day.

The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.
 
2013-12-05 10:55:22 AM  
Dry-firing isn't harmful to most centerfire guns, so at least the gun is going to be okay!
 
2013-12-05 10:55:26 AM  

TwowheelinTim: Notice I qualified that with "most likely".


I still take exception with that assumption and point at the tag attached to the headline to support my reasoning.
 
2013-12-05 10:55:43 AM  
He's just lucky it happened where it did.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, but in Florida you can get away with murder.

/This will finally end the reign of Florida Man, unlike that kill family with crossbow and slit his own throat incident down the page.
//He's harder to keep down than the Dread Pirate Roberts
 
2013-12-05 10:58:03 AM  

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.
 
2013-12-05 10:58:24 AM  
I would be ok with charging everyone involved with negligent homicide. All guns are loaded.

I know for a fact that my pistols are not loaded, have the magazines out and safeties on, yet I still check to make sure they are unloaded before I pull them out of their case or hand them off to someone. And even then if I have to dry fire it I don't point it at anything. Just common sense.

Yeah keeping them unloaded and in a locked box makes them useless for home defense but not why I won them anyways.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:18 AM  

skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".


Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:19 AM  

Carousel Beast: Carn: Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.

You're right, we don't require people who drive cars to pass safety exams and carry licenses, obey the rules of the road, carry insurance, etc.  Idiot.  You're only move in bringing up cars in a gun control debate is "bu bu but Second Amendment!", which I'm sure someone will be along shortly to do just that.

You just can't let go of your derp long enough to think, can you?

Let's base this on your own argument (bolded, above). There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Links:

Death Rate (CDC)
Number of passenger vehicles
Number of guns

/Idiot? Look in the mirror, pal


So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?  The perfect is the enemy of the good?  And if you want to make a fair comparison, instead of deaths per capita you might measure deaths per mile driven or deaths per minute/hour driving vs gun deaths per min/hour used.  Or take gun deaths divided by number of gun owners rather than per capita.  And it's completely ridiculous anyway, since vehicles have a purpose that is non-violent, we heavily regulate them, and there are still accidents and deaths.  Guns have a violent purpose, we regulate them less heavily, and there are accidents and deaths.  tada?

For the record, I'm a huge believer that it should be much harder to get a driver's license, that there are an awful lot of people who have one that shouldn't, and that penalties for negligent and irresponsible behavior when driving should be higher.
 
2013-12-05 11:00:13 AM  

TNel: HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.

That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.


My dad always kept his pistol in the safe. However, the shotgun sat in the closet next to the ammo. As for me, I keep my PPQ in my nightstand drawer, though I don't keep one in the chamber.
 
2013-12-05 11:01:07 AM  

imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.


Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"
 
2013-12-05 11:01:56 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.


lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.
 
2013-12-05 11:02:11 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: AirForceVet: /Let's throw in suicides in 2012 by guns, for good measure:
//Oh, I can't find that statistic easily on Google as the NRA fights collection of that data.

Sure you can.  Google "WISQARS".  You can get all kinds of data, including suicide by gun, and the NRA has done NOTHING to prevent that kind of data.  Why, you ask?  Well, it could be because it proves that things like accident by guns have been consistently becoming more and more rare, but the truth is that you're most likely confusing actual crime reports with the highly-speculative anti-gun propaganda that was produced by the CDC decades ago.

Oh, and guns don't CAUSE suicide...at best, there's a correlation, most likely because people who really want to commit suicide tend to know that the most effective way to do so is to shoot themselves, so they might buy a gun to do it.   Correlation /= Causation.


If the National Rifle Association truly is not trying to hide data, then for what reason is no one able to present statistics proving that concealed weapons permit holders commit murder at a rate greater than that of the general adult population?
 
2013-12-05 11:02:15 AM  

Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

Y

ou're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)
 
2013-12-05 11:04:41 AM  
i18.photobucket.com
Opposed to gun control.
And I agree.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:10 AM  
"Holt and his friends were dry-firing the gun at each other for fun earlier in the day." Hmmm, I wonder how this story ends

Exactly as God intended.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:22 AM  

TNel: Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?


For self defense, you need to have a gun easily accessible with ammunition nearby.  I agree that is is really dumb to keep one in the chamber and to keep it within reach of uneducated kids.

Growing up, I was drilled to have a healthy respect for guns and never felt the need or desire to play with any of them.  I was also threatened with the beating of a lifetime if I was ever caught playing or acting irresponsibly around any gun.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:42 AM  
1. Bear the thousand injuries of Fortunado as best you can, but when he ventures upon insult...
2. Spend the day dry firing a gun with the whole gang
3. Quietly load it and leave it on the table
4. "In pace requiescat!"
 
2013-12-05 11:06:31 AM  

Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)


Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.
 
2013-12-05 11:08:16 AM  

Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.


He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?
 
2013-12-05 11:09:27 AM  

skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.


This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.
 
2013-12-05 11:09:29 AM  

you are a puppet: 1. Bear the thousand injuries of Fortunado as best you can, but when he ventures upon insult...
2. Spend the day dry firing a gun with the whole gang
3. Quietly load it and leave it on the table
4. "In pace requiescat!"


That was the curious part of the story for me, as well. Why, after observing his friends dry-firing his gun, would he then wait until they weren't around, load it, and then leave it out once again?
 
2013-12-05 11:10:15 AM  

Glendale: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

[1.bp.blogspot.com image 850x595]


That is the most disturbing thing I have ever read.
 
2013-12-05 11:10:45 AM  

Adss2009: Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.


Do they take into account the deaths that are actually for the common good? Do people regularly use cars for self defense or suicide? Does any of this have any bearing on rights in general?
 
2013-12-05 11:10:48 AM  

MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.


...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.
 
2013-12-05 11:11:07 AM  

HeadLever: However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one. These are the kids really don't know the difference.


Indeed, this Ignorance = Safety model leads to shooting deaths, overdose, alcohol poisoning, STD, and unwanted pregnancy.

I've taught my kids firearms safety in part because we like to go target shooting, but also because I don't want them ever to be in the position where some kid found dad's pistol and "hey, let's play soldier". Kids will be curious and if all they know is what's on TV, they will be stupid-curious, and that's no good.
 
2013-12-05 11:12:29 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?


That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".
 
2013-12-05 11:12:32 AM  

FormlessOne: MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.

...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.


I can't argue this. There are multiple culpable parties here as well. A day spent dry firing at people is a recipe for disaster.
 
2013-12-05 11:12:50 AM  
Guns aren't toys, and who the hell leaves a loaded gun just lying around anyway? Everyone involved in that story is a moron.
 
2013-12-05 11:13:02 AM  

jso2897: Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)

Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.



All right, will an NRA source work better for you?  80 million households own a firearm of any kind in america.
NRA   Doesn't change the numbers though
 
2013-12-05 11:13:27 AM  

Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".


I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.
 
2013-12-05 11:14:53 AM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"


meh... there's a difference between educated and able to certain things and true intelligence.

The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern, with this generation believing that any sort of worth is how popular and famous you can be, all the while mooching off the older generation with a self-serving attitude.  And the following generation are to be the product of this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills.

So it's not a question of "pegging" anything, it's observation.

But go ahead and keep assuming your crap.. it's funny to see one of your kind scrambling to look smart.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:32 AM  

R.A.Danny: Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".

I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.


Damn it. Welp, coffee's done brewing not a moment too soon.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:50 AM  

Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".


I was being facetious (Poe's Law strikes again). It's odd how people point to stories like this and then claim it's the typical behavior of "gun owners" in general, especially considering you ever hear of any mishandling by 99% of firearm owners.
 
2013-12-05 11:15:57 AM  

Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.


Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths
 
2013-12-05 11:16:56 AM  

R.A.Danny: Frank N Stein: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Frank N Stein: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: skozlaw: it was the entirety of the group's behavior that actually caused the "accident".

Nope. Gun owners should be held legally responsible since they're obviously never going to accept responsibility voluntarily.

lol you're always so mad that people own guns in the US.

He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?

That's not entirely correct. Plenty of gun owners go through safety courses when not legally required to do so. For example, my old man put me through such a course when I was young. Even though he himself taught me gun safety before I took the class, he thought it'd be a good idea to take the class. He even sat in so he could get a "refresher".

I do believe your sarcasm detector needs a slight adjustment.


So you guys want Holt's parents arrested and poor Mr. RGO left alone?
 
2013-12-05 11:17:46 AM  

R.A.Danny: Do they take into account the deaths that are actually for the common good?


Hmm. Now there's an interesting concept. As far as that goes, I am sure that a lot of terrible people die in automobile crashes. Think of all the rape, and child molesting, and theft, and terrorism that didn't happen because the perps died in a car wreck before they could do it. We need to adjust automotive death figures to adjust for those deaths that were for the good of humanity.
 
2013-12-05 11:18:17 AM  

Knarf: Not that tragic of a story, just farking stupid. Irresponsible gun owners are doing more damage to "gun rights" than any anti-gun activist.

/never point a gun at something you dont intend to destroy


When you have friends over dry firing your gun for fun, don't load it when their not looking, and put it back out on the table.

/There should be some kind of criminal charges having to do with wreckless endangerment.
 
2013-12-05 11:18:20 AM  

HeadLever: I agree that is is really dumb to keep one in the chamber and to keep it within reach of uneducated kids.


Educated or not kids shouldn't have access to weapons without their parents. Nobody wants to believe it will be their kids who brings a gun to school, brings a gun to a fight, or shoots himself, but it happens.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:11 AM  

imfallen_angel: HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"

meh... there's a difference between educated and able to certain things and true intelligence.

The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern, with this generation believing that any sort of worth is how popular and famous you can be, all the while mooching off the older generation with a self-serving attitude.  And the following generation are to be the product of this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills.

So it's not a question of "pegging" anything, it's observation.

But go ahead and keep assuming your crap.. it's funny to see one of your kind scrambling to look smart.


okay, I  agree with you except for one detail.  " this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills. Sadly,  I beleive that an argument can be made that they are correct in that assumption.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:28 AM  

Adss2009: jso2897: Adss2009: Carousel Beast: There are more handguns than passenger vehicles in the United States. Let's say absolutely nobody with one ever learns anything, is checked out, nothing. hey just blindly have guns and no idea about how to use them safely.

The death rate on these regulated, insured, controlled items is higher than the death rate of guns, if you included all gun deaths in the pool, no matter the circumstances.

You're right.  The amount of deaths caused by guns relative to vehicles is skewed towards vehicles: approx: .0132 percent cars vs. .0117 percent for guns.

Well, according to University of Chicago study approx. 30% of Americans own a gun, while about 95% own at least 1 car (according to DoS).
Looking at it as a matter of population though, the gun owners are more than twice as responsible for deaths than car owners.  (.0323 percent vs. .0123 percent).  Basically, 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Univ. of Chicago:
DoS (PDF)

Chicago is a Demon-rat city where the dead vote and Obama come from and therefore.
Bzzzzzzzt.
Fact rejected.


All right, will an NRA source work better for you?  80 million households own a firearm of any kind in america.
NRA   Doesn't change the numbers though


Uh, dude? JK - lighten up.
 
2013-12-05 11:21:54 AM  

lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?


Is that the strange fantasy that you jack off to?

/NTTAWWT
 
2013-12-05 11:23:25 AM  

Rizhail: And once again, a senseless death could have been avoided had the folks involved followed Rule One of gun safety: ALWAYS TREAT THE GODDAMNED GUN LIKE IT'S LOADED. No exceptions. If the firearm in question is not currently in pieces for storage/cleaning, then you don't look down the farking barrel, you don't pull the trigger unless you want to shoot something, and you sure as hell don't point the goddamned thing at something that you aren't willing to kill!

Hell, I've known this shiat since I was 6. The hunter's safety course I was in at age 9 drilled that damned phrase in every five minutes or so. Always treat a gun as though it's loaded, and you're far less likely to do something stupid like shoot your boyfriend.


talkaboutwidget.hmbreview.com


"I'm not seeing the problem here..."
 
2013-12-05 11:23:28 AM  
CasperImproved:

/There should be some kind of criminal charges having to do with wreckless endangerment.

But there was a wreck!
 
2013-12-05 11:24:02 AM  

FormlessOne: MycroftHolmes: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

This isn't murder, and to call it such really diminishes what murder is.  I know binary people like to classify everything as the worst possible offense, but doing so destroys the actual definitions of words.

This was an accident.  A totally avoidable, irresponsible, and negligent accident.

...for which involuntary manslaughter charges by reason of gross negligence would be entirely suitable. Someone needs to be punished here, as a combination of irresponsibility and gross negligence led to an unnecessary and avoidable death.


I actually had written that negligence or manslaughter would be appropriate, but deleted that when I realized I did not know the legal definitions of either.

I do agree withe the family, though.  If we are talking merely about punishment, I don't think anything the state can do would be worse than what the shooter is going through right now.
 
2013-12-05 11:24:08 AM  

imfallen_angel: The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern,


That was not your origional premis, was it?  Now you are moving the goalpost from "most of the population are idiots to start with" to now only account for Millennials who only account for about 25% of the population.

Spotting your logical fallacies is not very difficult.  In fact, I would bet that most of the population could identify them quite easily.

/I could be wrong though.
 
2013-12-05 11:25:27 AM  

GanjSmokr: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

Is that the strange fantasy that you jack off to?

/NTTAWWT


I had actually thought that Craigslist ad the guy posted would end the discussion. After seeing it, I know I no longer feel like talking about guys stroking anything, under any circumstances. I mean - did you READ that ad?
 
2013-12-05 11:25:29 AM  

HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths


Suicides should not be omitted from firearm death statistics. By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.
 
2013-12-05 11:26:21 AM  
jso2897:  Uh, dude? JK - lighten up.

touche
 
2013-12-05 11:28:07 AM  
Well she did hit center mass. At least she's got good trigger control.

www.batf.com
 
2013-12-05 11:28:10 AM  
I think what's more concerning is the owner who loaded the weapon and then just left it laying non chalantly on the kitchen table! WTF?
Unless you're the ONLY person in the house you should never ever leave a loaded weapon just laying around anywhere.
 
2013-12-05 11:29:33 AM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: He's right though. Gun owners aren't responsible. You think they'd take training courses, safety courses, buy gun safes, etc.... if they weren't legally required to do so?


You don't need a safety course to learn not to point a gun at someone's chest and pull the trigger.
 
2013-12-05 11:30:04 AM  

rkettens: okay, I agree with you except for one detail. " this generation, which believes that popularity is more important than actual skills. Sadly, I beleive that an argument can be made that they are correct in that assumption.


Interesting point...

So you're thinking that "fame" brings them towards a better life overall, riches, which could be seen as "success"?

True that so many have become rich due to having celebrity status (Paris Hilton, the Kardashians, etc.) via scadals, etc.

But the point of my initial post was about actual intelligence....

As per, if we needed to rebuild the world... who would truly be important... the drooling ones that manage to be in the media due to scandals or something fairly idiotic, or the doctors, engineers, etc.
 
2013-12-05 11:30:40 AM  
An irresponsible driver kills a person while driving drunk = more stringent drink and drive laws affecting responsible drivers.

An irresponsible mine owner kills his employees through lax standards = more stringent mining laws affecting responsible mine owners.

An irresponsible factory owner pollutes the environment = more stringent pollution laws affecting responsible  factory owners.

An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets**
 
2013-12-05 11:31:15 AM  
Despite the constant usage of the word in the article, I don't find any of this particularly tragic.
 
2013-12-05 11:31:28 AM  
How awful.  I would hate to be his mother.  71 years old, never had a gun in my hands.  Even in Eastern Europe, where I grew up, I didn't see people carry guns in the cities, at least.  Wake up AmericaYou are losing your young.
 
2013-12-05 11:31:33 AM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The problem is, the stupid ones believe themselves to be smart... take you for example.

Projection fallacy.

There is much that I don't know.  However, you seem to think that you have the world pegged since you are somehow qualified to state that most of the population are idiots to start with, contrary to much evidence.

A wise man once said, "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts"


Awful certain of what the whole problem is, wasn't he?
 
2013-12-05 11:32:09 AM  

Dinki: An irresponsible driver kills a person while driving drunk = more stringent drink and drive laws affecting responsible drivers.

An irresponsible mine owner kills his employees through lax standards = more stringent mining laws affecting responsible mine owners.

An irresponsible factory owner pollutes the environment = more stringent pollution laws affecting responsible  factory owners.

An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets**


If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.
 
2013-12-05 11:32:19 AM  
This kind of thing happens all the time

i141.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-05 11:32:36 AM  
I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.
 
2013-12-05 11:33:03 AM  

Dinki: An irresponsible driver kills a person while driving drunk = more stringent drink and drive laws affecting responsible drivers.

An irresponsible mine owner kills his employees through lax standards = more stringent mining laws affecting responsible mine owners.

An irresponsible factory owner pollutes the environment = more stringent pollution laws affecting responsible  factory owners.

An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets** "Arrest the victim's parents!"


fxt
 
2013-12-05 11:33:08 AM  
My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.
 
2013-12-05 11:35:09 AM  

Dimensio: HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths

Suicides should not be omitted from firearm death statistics. By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.


I see what you did there.

Nonetheless it's a fact that, other things being equal, easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.

Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one, and furthermore their suicide attempts are more likely to be successful.

It's not hard to understand that having a gun handy makes it much easier for a depressed person to act on a suicidal impulse that other methods which may require more effort, planning, or physical suffering.
 
2013-12-05 11:35:35 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Educated or not kids shouldn't have access to weapons without their parents.


I can agree with that to a certain extent.  my preference is up until they are 10 or so all guns should be stored in a location where they cannot have access.  Once they get over that, I'll start to disagree a little bit but I will agree that the parents still need to have strict supervision over any use up until 12 or so.

Ensuring no access for those that can understand and have been taught about guns without parents around is a good way to breed irresponsible behavior when you arent' looking.
 
2013-12-05 11:36:03 AM  

Third rate whore in Toronto: How awful.  I would hate to be his mother.  71 years old, never had a gun in my hands.  Even in Eastern Europe, where I grew up, I didn't see people carry guns in the cities, at least.  Wake up America.  You are losing your young.


Not that many of them, and mostly undesirables - trailer trash and ghetto rats shooting each other, and gun-fappers blowing their own heads off due to being retarded genetic rejects  - let 'em die, I say.
 
2013-12-05 11:36:44 AM  

Ex-Texan: My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.


But where do you keep the magazines?
 
2013-12-05 11:36:56 AM  

jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.


I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.
 
2013-12-05 11:37:22 AM  

Ex-Texan: My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.


Dry firing won't hurt your gun.

If you're not dry-firing, you're not training enough.
 
2013-12-05 11:37:41 AM  

R.A.Danny: If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.


You might want to stop listening to the NRA- they lie to you about everything.

Despite national push, more states relaxing gun laws
 
2013-12-05 11:37:54 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Nonetheless it's a fact that, other things being equal, easy access to guns increases the suicide rate


The successful suicide rate. Guns are far more effective than taking pills.
 
2013-12-05 11:38:49 AM  

Dinki: R.A.Danny: If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.

You might want to stop listening to the NRA- they lie to you about everything.

Despite national push, more states relaxing gun laws


1) The laws had to be there to relax
2) That is a wonderful thing
 
2013-12-05 11:39:19 AM  

Third rate whore in Toronto: How awful.  I would hate to be his mother.  71 years old, never had a gun in my hands.  Even in Eastern Europe, where I grew up, I didn't see people carry guns in the cities, at least.  Wake up America.  You are losing your young.


Are you posting from Cracker Barrel?
 
2013-12-05 11:40:57 AM  

UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.


I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.
 
2013-12-05 11:41:43 AM  

topcon: HotWingConspiracy: topcon: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: My nephews wonder why I don't allow them to point toy guns, Nerf guns, or squirt guns at me or each other. Bad habits are hard to break. We never had BB guns when I was a kid, because kids will treat them like toys. We could, however, go shooting real guns with adult supervision whenever we asked. At age 11 each of my brothers and sister and I received our first .22's. By that age we'd been well drilled in gun safety.

That's a-tier level retarded.  I shot guns as a kid and also played with nerf guns and water guns and shot them at people.  I never confused the two, don't know anyone who did.

How nice for you.

Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.  I'm quite certain there are millions of kids out there who played with water guns and shot real guns with adults and never shot anyone.


Millions of flights have not been hijacked by terrorists, but you still get treated like one every time you go through security.
 
2013-12-05 11:42:06 AM  

Holt's girlfriend Erin Steele never saw the gun's owner reload the weapon. About two hours later, she picked the gun up, pointed it at Holt, and fired. Instead of the hearing the quiet click of a dry-fire, she saw her boyfriend fall to the ground in pain. She'd shot him in the chest.


Best murder plan EVER!

 
2013-12-05 11:42:40 AM  

jst3p: Holt's girlfriend Erin Steele never saw the gun's owner reload the weapon. About two hours later, she picked the gun up, pointed it at Holt, and fired. Instead of the hearing the quiet click of a dry-fire, she saw her boyfriend fall to the ground in pain. She'd shot him in the chest.
Best murder plan EVER!


I saw that movie.
 
2013-12-05 11:42:55 AM  
So, she's single?
 
2013-12-05 11:44:36 AM  

eyeq360: Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.


Accurate headshots are notoriously hard to make, especially on a moving target.
 
2013-12-05 11:45:39 AM  

eyeq360: Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.


Are you not aware of what a human body typically releases upon death?
 
2013-12-05 11:45:43 AM  

Frank N Stein: Third rate whore in Toronto: How awful.  I would hate to be his mother.  71 years old, never had a gun in my hands.  Even in Eastern Europe, where I grew up, I didn't see people carry guns in the cities, at least.  Wake up America.  You are losing your young.

Are you posting from Cracker Barrel Tim Hortons?

 
2013-12-05 11:46:28 AM  

jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.

I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.


Motocycles are "kid's toy"s?

notsureifserious.jpg

/and not everyone is an organ donor...
//taking mine with me
///yes, yes, nobody wants the organs of a stoner anyway, I know.
 
2013-12-05 11:46:54 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: eyeq360: Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.

Accurate headshots are notoriously hard to make, especially on a moving target.


The trick is to use the AK, the first shot lands middle of cross hairs every time. The subsequent shots are pretty sloppy.

www.whatpoll.com
 
2013-12-05 11:47:26 AM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: The Millennials are showing a decline in intelligent though pattern,

That was not your origional premis, was it?  Now you are moving the goalpost from "most of the population are idiots to start with" to now only account for Millennials who only account for about 25% of the population.

Spotting your logical fallacies is not very difficult.  In fact, I would bet that most of the population could identify them quite easily.

/I could be wrong though.


Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.

As the population stands now.. we have the boombers, the genX, the millenials, and each one accuses the other to being the stupid ones... the reality is, many of the boomers are educated, have done fairly well.  the genX is stuck behind the "success" of the boomers, and many scrambling to balance themselves out, but aside the "rebellious" ones that have eventually grown up and stopped accusing the boomers for the mess that the world is in, most now make up the middle class.  But then their children for the most part have grown up in the shadow of these two generations, have learned that as long as you're in the media, that you have followers, you're worth something, then the rest, such as education, is not a big thing... look at Will Smith's son, and his attitude, etc.

Then the number of stories about the stupid crap that kids are doing, where life is all about "fun" and party... you can't have fun without drugs or alcohol, etc. heck, you can't be "someone" without them.

And while this happens, racist appears to be in the rise, no so much about race, but about plain out superiority complexes towards any group that you aren't part of.

So the point that I made is that the population is increasing, but more stupid people are born because life has become simply too easy for the younger ones, due to the mooching off the older generation.

The number of "kids" that I've seen that would not survive without their parents, and this includes people in their 30s, even 40s, speaks for itself.

So my point about the next generation is a representation of the evolution of this downward spiral towards the concerns of what makes someone truly intelligent.

Something that appears to be way over your level of understanding, so hence, you must scrabble with cheap attempts to show some intelligence.

But frankly, just because you read somewhere the word "fallacy" and believe that using it makes you look smart... boy, I could say that I'm bursting your bubble, but the reality is that you wouldn't understand it anyways, heck, you probably don't have a clue to what I'm saying now.  But I do expect another attempt from you to save face..because the limited intelligence you have, is just enough to understand that you are being called out for the idiot that you are.

Please, go ahead and stomp your feet while whining "but I'm not stupid"...
 
2013-12-05 11:47:34 AM  
skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

You MIGHT want to go back to your old Law School notebooks, and re-learn the common law definition of "murder".  I suspect that even Clarence Darrow would have trouble demonstrating "malice aforethought" given the fact pattern.
 
2013-12-05 11:47:36 AM  

R.A.Danny: Dinki: R.A.Danny: If you're trying to state that there have been no added gun laws then you are either not paying attention or you're being willfully ignorant.

You might want to stop listening to the NRA- they lie to you about everything.

Despite national push, more states relaxing gun laws

1) The laws had to be there to relax
2) That is a wonderful thing


I tend to agree - most gun laws are just stupid, and even some of the ones that "work" only serve to protect stupid people from their own stupidity, like drug laws do. Now I don't buy "Idiocracy" theories - this won't "weaken the race", statistically - but it won't strengthen it either.
In general, protecting the stupid from themselves is more trouble to society than it is worth - it requires the expenditure of resources, and often, the restriction of liberties - and the dividend you get back is more stupid, dumb, buck-toothed trailer park assholes we end up having to take care of.
 
2013-12-05 11:48:05 AM  
That is a really stupid thing to do. You could damage the gun.
 
2013-12-05 11:48:30 AM  

Doc Daneeka: Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one,


Does that general statement include those that don't own a gun beforehand, but head off to the gun store in order to purchase one to do the job?  I would suspect that happens quite frequently.
 
2013-12-05 11:48:43 AM  

GanjSmokr: jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.

I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.

Motocycles are "kid's toy"s?

notsureifserious.jpg

/and not everyone is an organ donor...
//taking mine with me
///yes, yes, nobody wants the organs of a stoner anyway, I know.


For all we know you might have a lovely pancreas.
 
2013-12-05 11:48:49 AM  

jso2897: I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.

I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.


I always figured that they call 'em "brain-buckets" for a reason. If you have no brain, there's no reason to wear a helmet. I'm good with helmet laws for kids also, but I'm not big on government bubble-wrapping adults. And like you said, it's lose-win-win!
 
2013-12-05 11:50:40 AM  

GanjSmokr: jso2897: UNAUTHORIZED FINGER: jso2897: I am opposed to most gun control - something that surprises most people who are aware of my general political orientation. America has a lot of unwholesome attitudes toward guns and violence, and purging them is going to be a Darwinian process.
The sort of people we need fewer of have been statistically proven to be more of a hazard to themselves than others - so I say, give the fappers all the guns they want. They are easy enough to avoid, and they are not to be feared - a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy. Disarming them is not to society's evolutionary advantage.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Self-policing problem. No need for the government to get involved.

I'm OK with making kids wear 'em. But as for adults - every time a healthy, young adult biker splatters their brains out on something, somewhere between two and three lives are saved (organs) - often, the lives of people with more f**king sense than to splatter their brains out riding a kid's toy.

Motocycles are "kid's toy"s?

notsureifserious.jpg

/and not everyone is an organ donor...
//taking mine with me
///yes, yes, nobody wants the organs of a stoner anyway, I know.


Well, OK - if a person's life wasn't pretty much theirs to dispose of as they wish to begin with, then what I said would be arguable, and maybe wrong - but finally, if somebody doesn't value their own life, I am not going to value it for them.
 
2013-12-05 11:50:43 AM  

imfallen_angel: Then the number of stories about the stupid crap that kids are doing, where life is all about "fun" and party... you can't have fun without drugs or alcohol, etc. heck, you can't be "someone" without them.

And while this happens, racist appears to be in the rise, no so much about race, but about plain out superiority complexes towards any group that you aren't part of.

So the point that I made is that the population is increasing, but more stupid people are born because life has become simply too easy for the younger ones, due to the mooching off the older generation.

The number of "kids" that I've seen that would not survive without their parents, and this includes people in their 30s, even 40s, speaks for itself.


I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent. You hear more stories like this not because stupid shiat like this is happening more frequently, but because you have access to a creation that brings more of these stories to the magic box you are reading them on.
 
2013-12-05 11:50:43 AM  

bdub77: Can we arrest the gun owner for being a total dipsh*t and letting them play with his gun?


Bad precedent.  If a guy isn't married and everybody involved is a consenting adult, what's wrong with letting somebody play with his gun?

/Or did you mean "letting them play with his pistol"?
 
2013-12-05 11:51:54 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

You MIGHT want to go back to your old Law School notebooks, and re-learn the common law definition of "murder".  I suspect that even Clarence Darrow would have trouble demonstrating "malice aforethought" given the fact pattern.


Assuming you believe the story as presented. What if it turned out the girlfriend and the gun owner were making the beast with two backs?
 
2013-12-05 11:51:55 AM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: Dinki: An irresponsible driver kills a person while driving drunk = more stringent drink and drive laws affecting responsible drivers.

An irresponsible mine owner kills his employees through lax standards = more stringent mining laws affecting responsible mine owners.

An irresponsible factory owner pollutes the environment = more stringent pollution laws affecting responsible  factory owners.

An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets** "Arrest the victim's parents!"

fxt


I don't think we read the same article.

Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?
 
2013-12-05 11:52:50 AM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: bdub77: Can we arrest the gun owner for being a total dipsh*t and letting them play with his gun?

Bad precedent.  If a guy isn't married and everybody involved is a consenting adult, what's wrong with letting somebody play with his gun?

/Or did you mean "letting them play with his pistol"?


Or are you just happy to see me?
 
2013-12-05 11:54:10 AM  

jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent.


Or maybe we just realize in our maturity how stupid we were in our youth, and know that if these young dingbats somehow avoid killing themselves by the time they get to our age they will realize the same thing.
 
2013-12-05 11:54:52 AM  

jst3p: So, she's single?


fishsouthbay.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-05 11:55:18 AM  

Smidge204: The problem is, there is near total and fervent resistance to the idea that any attempt whatsoever should be made to try to identify criminals and morons so that they may be prevented from owning a gun prior to someone getting killed.


Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.
 
2013-12-05 11:55:30 AM  

R.A.Danny: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent.

Or maybe we just realize in our maturity how stupid we were in our youth, and know that if these young dingbats somehow avoid killing themselves by the time they get to our age they will realize the same thing.


This. I don't regard young people as inferior because they aren't competent yet. Competence will come in time. That's why life is long.
 
2013-12-05 11:55:39 AM  

CasperImproved: Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).


That is where you lost me. If you point a firearm at something and pull the trigger you are in fact culpable even if you honestly thought the weapon was not loaded.
 
2013-12-05 11:56:40 AM  

HeadLever: You are completly wrong about the criminal part. No one that I know is resistant to the idea of keeping violent criminals from guns.


Tell that to the people who protest background checks, which are really the only way to sensibly check if someone with a criminal background may be attempting to acquire a gun. Or any attempt to establish a registry that would enable tracing the ownership of firearms to find out how criminals get them.

You know, some places actually prohibit sale or transfer of firearms between private individuals? If you want to sell your firearm you have to go through a licensed dealer who takes care of all the paperwork (including background checks). Would you support something like that?

HeadLever: The moron argument has you playing one. Being a moron is a subjective qualifcation and in that context, is an arbitrary and capricious limitation on an enumerated right.


So no requirements for safety training or evaluation? Would you support written and/or practical testing prior to issuing a permit? How about revoking of permits/licenses for consistently irresponsible but not necessarily *criminal* behavior with a firearm? How about evaluation of mental health?

HeadLever: And what happened to your gun-troll alt? Did it get banned or something? You are never in smidge form in these threads.


Sorry, don't have an alt. Not sure who you're thinking of but I use this handle everywhere my actual name/personal info is not genuinely required. *shrug*
=Smidge=
 
2013-12-05 11:57:31 AM  
Idiots with cars, trains, planes, money, power, guns often have a sad ending.

/Shakes tiny fist at Darwin
 
2013-12-05 11:57:36 AM  
Come at me bro.

img.fark.net
 
2013-12-05 11:59:47 AM  

Frank N Stein: Come at me bro.

[img.fark.net image 775x945]


You should add "Into The Wild"

/runs
 
2013-12-05 12:00:22 PM  

jso2897: a pussy with a gun in his hand is still a pussy

www.hotflick.net


Hammerson: Do you know why Americans love guns, Mr. Hertz? And it's got nothing to do with all that phallic mumbo-jumbo, "cockin' your gun." No, Hertz, people love guns because America is a land of opportunity, where a poor man can become rich, and a pussy can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand. Now, I'm hopin' you're not just a pussy with a gun in your hand.
Mr. Hertz: Oh no, sir. No, no, I am not. I'm a tough guy with a pussy in my hand.
 
2013-12-05 12:00:45 PM  

Dinki: An irresponsible gun owner gets someone killed or wounded by mishandling his gun or letting others mishandle his gun = **Crickets**


I don't see how you could possibly hear crickets after things like this. Not over the screaming of gun owners pretending they're about to be persecuted...
 
2013-12-05 12:01:40 PM  

Dimensio: By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.


Treat the disease, not the symptoms
 
2013-12-05 12:02:05 PM  

R.A.Danny: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent.

Or maybe we just realize in our maturity how stupid we were in our youth, and know that if these young dingbats somehow avoid killing themselves by the time they get to our age they will realize the same thing.


Fair point.
 
2013-12-05 12:02:13 PM  

Carn: So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?


I do agree that adding mandatory training in gun safety (a bit more than "don't touch a gun, it will explode in fiery death and shoot you!") in school.  Safety testing...firearms manufacturers do extensive testing, and issue recall notices the moment they realize something isn't quite right about a gun, even if it's relatively rare.  What regulations would you add that would prevent death that couldn't be circumvented by a motivated idiot?
 
2013-12-05 12:02:43 PM  

trappedspirit: Dimensio: By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.

Treat the disease, not the symptoms


Seems to me that suicide is a self correcting issue.
 
2013-12-05 12:02:54 PM  

imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.


No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.
 
2013-12-05 12:05:45 PM  

R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

That is where you lost me. If you point a firearm at something and pull the trigger you are in fact culpable even if you honestly thought the weapon was not loaded.


But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.

I've handled guns since I was 8 yrs old. The very first rules "treat every gun you touch as though it were loaded and the safely is off".

But if you are a stupid noob that never handled guns before, you wouldn't have rules from which to act upon. Same thing as letting a kid with his learners permit go out and drive your car non-supervised. You wouldn;t allow that would you? But I bet the 15 yr old would be giddy with joy for you to permit it.
 
2013-12-05 12:06:20 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.


Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=
 
2013-12-05 12:07:03 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.


It was an accident that they let a legally retarded person handle a gun.
 
2013-12-05 12:07:13 PM  

Ex-Texan: My wife was mad when she found out about my latest acquisition, a .45 ACP w/nightsights.She won't allow it in the house. It currently resides in the back of her car, with 3 clips. I keep it there to amuse her. She told my therapist I bought it, he was really concerned about it. My wife doesn't have any qaulms about my son with firearms, but gets bent out of shape when I buy  one.

//No dry firing, EVAR.


Women, right?  Sheesh!  My wife got miffed at me last night when the UPS guy showed up with three new rifles for me.  Somethingsomething "We don't have room for a third gun safe"something.

She calmed right down though when I pointed out that one of those rifles is her sons Christmas present.
 
2013-12-05 12:08:15 PM  

jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent. You hear more stories like this not because stupid shiat like this is happening more frequently, but because you have access to a creation that brings more of these stories to the magic box you are reading them on.


Think about that for a moment...  you honestly believe that people 50 years ago would be able to "stunts" that today's generation are doing from example that they see through this magic box?

If yes, then how did they hear of it? (yes, it's a trick question, but shows a point that you appear to not have considered)

How many of these "stunts" are being recorded and broadcasted... and weren't done with the purpose of the broadcasting?

It's about consequences, and today's population are "learning" that actions that are "bad", still leads to fame, so it's ok to do them.  That's not very smart, no matter how you cut it.

Here you have kids playing with a gun... how did they get to the conclusion that it would be funny to play with a device which sole purpose is to kill?
 
2013-12-05 12:08:16 PM  

CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.



RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
 
2013-12-05 12:09:08 PM  

skozlaw: The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.


The most they could charge her with manslaughter. Murder requires intent. Manslaughter can be charged in cases of grotesque stupidity.
 
2013-12-05 12:09:30 PM  
In what universe is it fun to dry fire a gun at someone?  I think that may be the dumbest game I've ever heard of.
If someone did that to me, I would immediately punch them in the face, and make sure they were never allowed to hold a gun again.

In this case, they played, then put the gun down, and went away for a while.  During the time, the owner came back and loaded the gun, for some unknown reason, and left it out in the same place.  Yeah...  That seems likely.

IMHO the girlfriend should be charged, at the least, with manslaughter.  She caused another person's death by her own stupidity and carelessness.  I think that's pretty easy to prove.  Even if the family doesn't want to press charges, the state certainly can.
 
2013-12-05 12:10:00 PM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.

No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.


Good for you...  but I've wasted enough time on you already, you need stats and collaborating evidence, look them up, but I doubt that you're able to do so.
 
2013-12-05 12:10:43 PM  

SpectroBoy: Billy Bathsalt: The word "accident" doesn't really cover what happened.

It was an accident that they let a legally retarded person handle a gun.


Negligent homicide comes to mind here.
 
2013-12-05 12:11:48 PM  

Smidge204: Tell that to the people who protest background checks


Who would that be? I have not seen any protest specifically on background check.  I know that several folks (myslef included) did not support the last bout of legislation, because it was not just about background checks.

I'll bet that if you ask the 'protestors' directly, they would have no problem with the general concept of keeping guns away from violent criminals.
 
2013-12-05 12:11:54 PM  
Its okay, she was just "Standing her ground."

Since they were all mentally deficient and incapable of providing consent I have good authority he was planning on raping her at some point of the night.
 
2013-12-05 12:13:30 PM  
Theaetetus:
Data from the National Violent Death Reporting System (NVDRS) - violent incidents and deaths, death rates, and causes of injury mortality. Data provided for 16 states and are not nationally representative.
What about the other 34 states?


You can always look at other sources, since there are mandatory reporting laws for things like GSWs.
 
2013-12-05 12:13:43 PM  

durbnpoisn: IMHO the girlfriend should be charged, at the least, with manslaughter. She caused another person's death by her own stupidity and carelessness. I think that's pretty easy to prove. Even if the family doesn't want to press charges, the state certainly can.


The question is... did they record it, and did she goes "bang" or "pew pew pew".. only to go "opps".

Sadly, how many times will the same scenario happen in just the next couple of months.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:03 PM  

Doc Daneeka: Dimensio: HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths

Suicides should not be omitted from firearm death statistics. By more strongly regulating firearms, the United States of America could reduce its suicide rate to levels seen in other, more restrictive, nations such as France, Belgium or Finland.

I see what you did there.

Nonetheless it's a fact that, other things being equal, easy access to guns increases the suicide rate.

Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one, and furthermore their suicide attempts are more likely to be successful.

It's not hard to understand that having a gun handy makes it much easier for a depressed person to act on a suicidal impulse that other methods which may require more effort, planning, or physical suffering.


I had a cousin that threw herself off a cliff.  On the morning of her older sister's rehersal dinner as well.  I doubt it took much planning, and there most likely wasn't any suffering from that height.

/I know what you're saying though...
 
2013-12-05 12:14:27 PM  

Accordion: So the gun owner loaded it and put it back on the table. What a genius.  Why did he need to load it?


For the laffs.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:57 PM  

metatronarchetype: Dry-firing isn't harmful to most centerfire guns, so at least the gun is going to be okay!


Maybe not.  It's most likely in an evidence locker somewhere, and it's entirely possible that the owner might have to sue LE to get it back.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:02 PM  

stevarooni: Carn: So the fact that adding safety testing and numerous regulations doesn't completely eliminate accidental deaths for vehicles is a reason not to attempt to do the same with guns because it won't be a perfect solution?

I do agree that adding mandatory training in gun safety (a bit more than "don't touch a gun, it will explode in fiery death and shoot you!") in school.  Safety testing...firearms manufacturers do extensive testing, and issue recall notices the moment they realize something isn't quite right about a gun, even if it's relatively rare.  What regulations would you add that would prevent death that couldn't be circumvented by a motivated idiot?


Mandatory gun training, not in school, use the classes provided by the NRA but in addition, you must pass a written test and as well as a safety test on a range.  If you want to do like for driver's ed and have an after school class for kids who are 18 I'm fine with that.  You should have to retake both every 5 years (I feel you should have to do the same for driving).  We should have a no gun list which doctors should be required to add people to if they've been diagnosed with any serious psychotic disorder, in addition to felons, and when signing up for these tests would be a good time to check a person against this list.  That would be a start.  In addition I would be in favor of either an insurance requirement and/or much more severe penalties for people who are responsible for this kind of negligence.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:04 PM  

CasperImproved: But if you are a stupid noob that never handled guns before, you wouldn't have rules from which to act upon.


Ignorance of the law....
 
2013-12-05 12:16:39 PM  

TNel: That's plain retarded.  Why would you have a loaded gun laying around where kids could get it?   I never understood the need to have a loaded gun or one with one in the chamber laying around in your house.



Because an unloaded gun is either a club or a brick?
 
2013-12-05 12:16:56 PM  

imfallen_angel: jst3p: I submit that your conclusions are flawed. The older generation has always considered the younger generation to be inferior and not competent. You hear more stories like this not because stupid shiat like this is happening more frequently, but because you have access to a creation that brings more of these stories to the magic box you are reading them on.

Think about that for a moment...  you honestly believe that people 50 years ago would be able to "stunts" that today's generation are doing from example that they see through this magic box?


I don't know how to parse that abortion of a sentence.

If yes, then how did they hear of it? (yes, it's a trick question, but shows a point that you appear to not have considered)

Is it your assertion that people have to be given the idea to do stupid shiat and they wouldn't otherwise come up with it on their own?

How many of these "stunts" are being recorded and broadcasted... and weren't done with the purpose of the broadcasting?

Why does that matter?

It's about consequences, and today's population are "learning" that actions that are "bad", still leads to fame, so it's ok to do them.  That's not very smart, no matter how you cut it.

So it is your contention that the couple in TFA were doing this for "fame"?

Here you have kids playing with a gun... how did they get to the conclusion that it would be funny to play with a device which sole purpose is to kill?

Stupid is as stupid does, this is not new.

June 8, 1867: New York City, Arthur Day, a 13-year-old boy, secretly took a loaded pistol to Public School No. 18 to shoot a dog he said had bitten him. While playing with the pistol, Day accidentally shot and injured classmate Robert Morton.[5]

Goddamn that internet, making kids do stupid things for "fame" in 1867!
 
2013-12-05 12:17:05 PM  

HeadLever: imfallen_angel: Well, as my point towards yourself is that you are showing to be fairly stupid, I gather that you are fetching to save face.

No I am using basic logic to refute and question your claims.  Since you just pile on the ancedotes without using any backup it appears that your blanket statment was only an opinion and not anything deduced from any factual source.

The fact that you have to resort to ad hominem attacks instead of providing factual backup to your claims bolsters my suspicion.


imfallen_angel is the smartest person on the planet. Just ask him! He has consulted with kings and presidents! And don't even get him started about his girlfriend in Canada.
 
2013-12-05 12:18:47 PM  

Dimensio: If the National Rifle Association truly is not trying to hide data, then for what reason is no one able to present statistics proving that concealed weapons permit holders commit murder at a rate greater than that of the general adult population?


Because the facts support the exact opposite, that CCW holders commit fewer murders per person than both Law Enforcement AND the general populace at large?
 
2013-12-05 12:19:28 PM  

Smidge204: So no requirements for safety training or evaluation? Would you support written and/or practical testing prior to issuing a permit? How about revoking of permits/licenses for consistently irresponsible but not necessarily *criminal* behavior with a firearm? How about evaluation of mental health?


Safety training, possibly if done correctly.  Evaluation, no.  All of these 'tests' and evaluations' can be tampered with in order to short circut the rights enumerated in the consitution.  What if the goverment decides that the test should cost $25,000?  What if the evaluation was only done by Brady 'bunch' or the VPN?  For you to lose your consitutional right, you need to either be convicted in a court of law or be found unfit to have the mental capacity to excercise your consitutional right.

This, for your information, is called Due Process.  Maybe you should look it up.
 
2013-12-05 12:19:47 PM  

HeadLever: Doc Daneeka: Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one,

Does that general statement include those that don't own a gun beforehand, but head off to the gun store in order to purchase one to do the job?  I would suspect that happens quite frequently.


Doc Daneeka is a pretty well-known anti-2nd Amendment troll...
 
2013-12-05 12:20:54 PM  

stuffy: That is a really stupid thing to do. You could damage the gun.


Unless it was a rimfire, no, you can't.
 
2013-12-05 12:22:13 PM  

R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET


RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:21 PM  

justtray: Millions of flights have not been hijacked by terrorists, but you still get treated like one every time you go through security.


They make terrorists take off their shoes and walk through metal detectors and then let them go?  I'm not expert criminologist but I think they need to toughen up their terrorist treatment policy a bit then.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:21 PM  

Guadior42: R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.


According to Cooper your 5 is covered by his 4. But yes.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:29 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: lilbjorn: Is "dry-firing" what gun fetishists do before they start jacking each other off?

Is there something wrong with jacking each other off?


Not if you don't make eye contact.
 
2013-12-05 12:23:56 PM  

jst3p: So, she's single?


You know the old adage...'No matter how hot she is, someone, somewhere, is bleeding to death from a sucking chest wound'
 
2013-12-05 12:25:09 PM  

HeadLever: Adss2009: 3.2 out of every 1000 gun owners in this country are responsible for a gun-related death while only 1.2 out of 1000 vehicle owners are responsible for a vehicle related death.

Don't forget that this includes suicide, which is about 2/3rds of all firearm deaths.  Factor that out of the total and you are about on par with vehicle related deaths


This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?
 
2013-12-05 12:25:21 PM  

jst3p: So it is your contention that the couple in TFA were doing this for "fame"?


No, that a lack of common sense is normal, because the magic box told them.
 
2013-12-05 12:26:02 PM  

imfallen_angel: Good for you... but I've wasted enough time on you already, you need stats and collaborating evidence, look them up, but I doubt that you're able to do so.


Exactly, becuase the entire assertion was likely bunk to begin with.  Your inability and unwillingness to provide any backup seems to support this arguemnt.
 
2013-12-05 12:26:37 PM  

justtray: Millions of flights have not been hijacked by terrorists, but you still get treated like one every time you go through security.


This is a dumb comment. I started to refute it, but it is best just to point out how stupid this comment is, and rest assured that anyone with an ounce of cognition will immediately recognize that this is a stupid comment.
 
2013-12-05 12:27:58 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?


No no no, all gun owners are fat white GOPpers, and all anti gun types are Obama.
 
2013-12-05 12:28:25 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: HeadLever: Doc Daneeka: Americans living in a household with a firearm are more likely to attempt suicide than those in households without one,

Does that general statement include those that don't own a gun beforehand, but head off to the gun store in order to purchase one to do the job?  I would suspect that happens quite frequently.

Doc Daneeka is a pretty well-known anti-2nd Amendment troll...


Being in favor of stronger gun control laws makes one a troll now.

The word has lost all meaning.
 
2013-12-05 12:28:48 PM  

Smidge204: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.

Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=


I'm pretty sure that if you're currently in jail on a felony conviction, you're not allowed to own a gun, either.
 
2013-12-05 12:29:42 PM  

jst3p: Goddamn that internet, making kids do stupid things for "fame" in 1867!


hmm.. the point is that there's always been stupid people doing stupid things, but now, thanks to the magic box, we do have a scenario of "hold my beer and watch this" that's been elevated to worldwide status.

And while most don't involve guns, many results in people doing stupid stuff for the reasons that I've already stated to death.

If you don't believe that at some point, in some way, there's some factors that plays into why people do stupid things, well.. what can I say.

Anyways... you appear to miss my point anyways and I have better things to do.
 
2013-12-05 12:30:19 PM  

R.A.Danny: Guadior42: R.A.Danny: CasperImproved: But it WAS empty the last time they picked it up. Maybe they checked it the first time, but they had no reason to think someone loaded it and put it back on the table.


RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET

RULE V: BE SURE OF YOUR BACKSTOP.

Know what is behind your target. Even if you hit what you are aiming at, bullets go through things sometimes.

According to Cooper your 5 is covered by his 4. But yes.


True. I find being a little more explicit when trying to pound sense into people is a good thing to do.
 
2013-12-05 12:30:44 PM  

Doc Daneeka: The word has lost all meaning.


I generally ignore your posts as well. You really don't bring anything to the table that reasonable people can use.
 
2013-12-05 12:31:00 PM  

Carn: Mandatory gun training, not in school, use the classes provided by the NRA but in addition, you must pass a written test and as well as a safety test on a range.  If you want to do like for driver's ed and have an after school class for kids who are 18 I'm fine with that.  You should have to retake both every 5 years (I feel you should have to do the same for driving).  We should have a no gun list which doctors should be required to add people to if they've been diagnosed with any serious psychotic disorder, in addition to felons, and when signing up for these tests would be a good time to check a person against this list.  That would be a start.  In addition I would be in favor of either an insurance requirement and/or much more severe penalties for people who are responsible for this kind of negligence.


Ah, you're talking about to own a gun...I think that mandatory safety training (with optional firearms practical), in-school, should be a requirement for graduation.  But just the one time; just as people aren't required to take a poll test to exercise their right to vote.  A list of felons and involuntarily committed/deemed incompetent folks already exists for background checks, though unfortunately it isn't as regularly updated by all states as it ought to be (Virginia improved their reporting after the VTech murders).

Insurance requirements are kind of silly.  Most car insurance carriers will refuse to cover damage caused by the car in the knowing commission of a crime.  The penalties for negligence like this are pretty severe, if they're enforced.  In this case, for some reason the cops seem to think that this idiot isn't responsible for her own actions.  Usually it takes a judge to assign mental incompetence, and a caretaker would be assigned, but apparently that's not the case here.  :-P
 
2013-12-05 12:31:26 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: eyeq360: Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.

Accurate headshots are notoriously hard to make, especially on a moving target.


True.  But most of the gun accidents that I generally read of are of the "looking down a barrel of a weapon and pulls trigger by accident" or "points gun at head and assures everyone that it's unloaded before pulling trigger" kind.

Dimensio: eyeq360: Dry firing a gun will later lead to steam cleaning a carpet.  Odds are, Stanley Steamer will not be removing pee and poo from your carpet, but more likely blood and brain, with the occasional bits of bone and hair.

Are you not aware of what a human body typically releases upon death?


Pee and poo.
I was being snarky and saying that improper gun safety may lead to a bloody death and not being scared shiatless.
 
2013-12-05 12:34:23 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?


I'm pro gun rights, abortion rights, and...though squeamish, pro assisted suicide (though serious efforts must be made to prevent abuse).  But yeah, the disparity/inconsistency strikes me as odd.
 
2013-12-05 12:34:55 PM  

R.A.Danny: Doc Daneeka: The word has lost all meaning.

I generally ignore your posts as well. You really don't bring anything to the table that reasonable people can use.


"Reasonable people" = people that agree with your position?

I believe there should be stronger gun control laws in the US.  That's a matter of opinion.  Having a sincere opinion doesn't make one a troll, not does that fact that others disagree.
 
2013-12-05 12:35:44 PM  

CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?


The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.
 
2013-12-05 12:38:03 PM  

imfallen_angel: Anyways... you appear to miss my point anyways and I have better things to do.


I sure hope so, because "not making sense on the internet" is a pretty pointless hobby.
 
2013-12-05 12:39:48 PM  
Came for the Steve Holt reference. Leaving satisfied.
 
2013-12-05 12:40:44 PM  

Smidge204: Secret Master of All Flatulence: Just like there's no attempt to try to identify criminals and morons before they're allowed to vote.

Fun fact: Over 5 million US citizens do not have the right to vote because of their criminal record, or because they are currently in jail on a felony conviction.

That's a great example you provided, but probably not for the reason you thought it was.
=Smidge=


Now we just need to take away the right to vote from the morons like yourself.
 
2013-12-05 12:42:19 PM  

jst3p: imfallen_angel: Anyways... you appear to miss my point anyways and I have better things to do.

I sure hope so, because "not making sense on the internet" is a pretty pointless hobby.


Yet is seems to be one of Fark's favorite pastimes.
 
2013-12-05 12:42:26 PM  
/headdesk
*reads article*
/headdesk /headdesk /headdesk /headdesk /headdesk /headdesk /headdesk
 
2013-12-05 12:43:22 PM  

stevarooni: Carn: Mandatory gun training, not in school, use the classes provided by the NRA but in addition, you must pass a written test and as well as a safety test on a range.  If you want to do like for driver's ed and have an after school class for kids who are 18 I'm fine with that.  You should have to retake both every 5 years (I feel you should have to do the same for driving).  We should have a no gun list which doctors should be required to add people to if they've been diagnosed with any serious psychotic disorder, in addition to felons, and when signing up for these tests would be a good time to check a person against this list.  That would be a start.  In addition I would be in favor of either an insurance requirement and/or much more severe penalties for people who are responsible for this kind of negligence.

Ah, you're talking about to own a gun...I think that mandatory safety training (with optional firearms practical), in-school, should be a requirement for graduation.  But just the one time; just as people aren't required to take a poll test to exercise their right to vote.  A list of felons and involuntarily committed/deemed incompetent folks already exists for background checks, though unfortunately it isn't as regularly updated by all states as it ought to be (Virginia improved their reporting after the VTech murders).

Insurance requirements are kind of silly.  Most car insurance carriers will refuse to cover damage caused by the car in the knowing commission of a crime.  The penalties for negligence like this are pretty severe, if they're enforced.  In this case, for some reason the cops seem to think that this idiot isn't responsible for her own actions.  Usually it takes a judge to assign mental incompetence, and a caretaker would be assigned, but apparently that's not the case here.  :-P


Of course - I don't like the idea of mandatory safety training for all, because some people don't want anything to do with guns and that's their right too.  I would add in licensing too but I know that really ruffles the feathers of a lot of people.  A compromise could be a renewable safety certification like I mentioned that you are mandated (although not enforced) to have.  Then if you are found guilty of some kind of negligence like the person in this article, you get triple the penalty if you do not have a current certification.  That might be a way at least to cut back on these kinds of "accidents".
 
2013-12-05 12:43:44 PM  

Frank N Stein: Come at me bro.

[img.fark.net image 775x945]


Do you plan on throwing those bullets at people?
 
2013-12-05 12:43:55 PM  
So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas? I'm probably just getting some ammo and such. Last year though, my old man gave me his old Winchester 94 that he won in a card game in the 70s. It's a lever action gun, so he wrapped it up and hid it in the corner like A Christmas Story.
 
2013-12-05 12:46:14 PM  

Frank N Stein: So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas? I'm probably just getting some ammo and such. Last year though, my old man gave me his old Winchester 94 that he won in a card game in the 70s. It's a lever action gun, so he wrapped it up and hid it in the corner like A Christmas Story.


Hopefully getting my FNS .40 back from the gunsmith by Christmas.
Am giving a Mini-14 to the In-laws.
 
2013-12-05 12:47:16 PM  
topcon:
Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Why are you assuming those kids aren't pretty stupid? Lots of stupid people out there.
 
2013-12-05 12:47:31 PM  
umad:  Now we just need to take away the right to vote from the morons like yourself.

It used to be that almost all states prohibited convicted felons from voting.  IIRC, only 9 states still do that.  Unfortunately, "convicted felons" apparently constitute a "core constituency" of one political party...
 
2013-12-05 12:48:55 PM  
Meh, it sucks for the kids involved, but I'm not getting the third party outrage and bloodlust here. They did something risky but consensual and lost a life. No different than other risky behaviours.

There's about 15,000 HIV deaths a year, and 50,000 new HIV diagnoses (cdc data). Most of them, presumably were consensual but highly risky behaviour. Despite all the warning and public service messages about safe practices available. Let's start charging the partner of any HIV diagnosis with attempted homocide (and homocide if it results in death). Or not. Your choice. But at least let's not have a double standard for cases like this which cause a relative tiny 500 deaths a year. (In other words, politicizing your pretend concern outrage is moronic).
 
2013-12-05 12:51:14 PM  

Carn: Of course - I don't like the idea of mandatory safety training for all, because some people don't want anything to do with guns and that's their right too.


Eh, I'd prefer that the safety training be mandatory for all.  You don't even have to touch a gun, you're not learning marksmanship, you're just learning how to keep upwind of a bullet.  If you want a religious exemption from the class, with a written note from your parents, sure.

Carn: A compromise could be a renewable safety certification like I mentioned that you are mandated (although not enforced) to have. Then if you are found guilty of some kind of negligence like the person in this article, you get triple the penalty if you do not have a current certification. That might be a way at least to cut back on these kinds of "accidents".


Not much of a compromise; you'll have a list of people who should know better, and a much much larger population of people who haven't sat through the same class for the 4th decade in a row.  It's not a huge burden, compared with some licensing and registration, but I hold that it wouldn't make a difference.  The real idiots, like the ones in the article, "know better" and they're too smart to possibly aim a loaded weapon at someone else, until it happens.
 
2013-12-05 12:52:42 PM  

Frank N Stein: So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas? I'm probably just getting some ammo and such. Last year though, my old man gave me his old Winchester 94 that he won in a card game in the 70s. It's a lever action gun, so he wrapped it up and hid it in the corner like A Christmas Story.


Nope, we generally do that for birthdays for the kids.  Case in point:  My oldest's 6th birthday present, a "pink and sparkly purple" My Little Pony-themed AR-15:

i135.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-05 12:53:02 PM  

HeadLever: No one that I know is resistant to the idea of keeping violent criminals from guns.


Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks? They're fighting to keep the loopholes that allow violent criminals to walk into a gun show and just randomly buy a gun in a private sale open.

When I see gun nuts on fark and elsewhere fighting even such a simple, commonsense thing as "making sure convicted felons aren't able to buy guns without a background check determining that they are, in fact, convicted violent felons", I really question the sincerity of comments like yours. You may say that you oppose letting violent criminals get guns, but your crowd is fighting for policies that allow violent criminals to do just that.
 
2013-12-05 12:54:47 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: But overall, having a gun in the house makes you safer. Sure, once in a while there are tragic unavoidable accidents like these, but nothing's perfect.


Keyboard. Monitor.
 
2013-12-05 12:55:03 PM  

jst3p: imfallen_angel: Anyways... you appear to miss my point anyways and I have better things to do.

I sure hope so, because "not making sense on the internet" is a pretty pointless hobby.


Well, whenever someone will dedicate time to chart "stupid things people do" in relation to internet activity, we'll have a better perspective... but at this point, go back to your cinnamon, salt and ice, and other challenges, choking game, flaming basketball, cage raging, car surfing, dry ice bombs..etc...
 
2013-12-05 12:55:50 PM  

luniz5monody: Am giving a Mini-14 to the In-laws.


I hate mine, too, but that's farking cruel.
 
2013-12-05 12:56:26 PM  
(forgot to mention" just like your grand-pappy used to do"....)
 
2013-12-05 12:56:39 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?


It's only a contradiction if you're to stupid to see nuance.
 
2013-12-05 12:56:46 PM  

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks? They're fighting to keep the loopholes that allow violent criminals to walk into a gun show and just randomly buy a gun in a private sale open.


They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration. The original legislation didn't have that, and was backed by the NRA.
 
2013-12-05 12:57:39 PM  

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?


You will have to ask them.  The last piece of legislation that went around with that required the background check to include the make, model and S/N of the firearm as well, which is ancillary to the intent of a background check.  This creates privacy and registry concerns.

If you want to do a background check, keep it only to the information that is required to perform said check and keep the rest of it out.
 
2013-12-05 12:58:27 PM  
i didn't realize you could get out of murder if the victim's family didn't press charges. I've seen articles about people killing people in self defense and it still being a murder case of some sort.
Shouldn't the owner of the gun here be charged with something at least? Like not having his weapon secured properly or something.
I'd also like to know why the hell they decided to load the gun after it being empty apparently all day, what were they planning to do with it?
 
2013-12-05 12:58:47 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: luniz5monody: Am giving a Mini-14 to the In-laws.

I hate mine, too, but that's farking cruel.


I own 1 from every series starting with 181. The improvements made to them since 580 has been amazing.
This will be their first firearm.

But I lol'd at the comment. Well played.
 
2013-12-05 12:59:13 PM  

basemetal: That's what they get for dry firing a gun.

/DNRTFA


We dry fire guns all the time, at targets.

Rule #1 fail by him, his friends, and girlfriend: Always keep your muzzle pointed in a safe direction.

This is why I keep the bolts out of my rifles and the strikers out of my pistols when stored as well.

/safety first
 
2013-12-05 12:59:31 PM  

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks? They're fighting to keep the loopholes that allow violent criminals to walk into a gun show and just randomly buy a gun in a private sale open.


Why go to a gun show when you can just find some dude on the street who will sell to you, no questions asked...which would also occur if background checks were mandated by the law?
 
2013-12-05 12:59:33 PM  
I do not like guns, which is why what I am about to say rankles me, despite my coming to the logical conclusion that it's the only way to handle this situation in America:

Everyone in this country should be required to go through basic firearm training as part of their early education.

We don't need to use live weapons for this training. We just need to make sure that EVERYONE understands the rules of firearms. We need to make sure that EVERYONE is trained to handle one in the most basic sense so that they will at least know NOT to point it at someone they don't want to kill, NOT to put their finger on the trigger until they're ready to kill, NOT to assume a gun isn't loaded, etc.

It should be something we all learn-- even if it's just a classroom, on-paper, watch some safety films sort of learning-- before we stumble upon a firearm, which can happen at any time in a person's life. And if they don't know the safety rules-- and they're too damned dumb to figure them out themselves in that moment-- they'll have a better chance of NOT killing the rest of us accidentally if they've had these classes.

I do not want to use guns. I honestly don't think anyone who is sane should find any joy in holding the power of instant death in their hands, and I certainly don't trust anyone of the human race with that power... But they're an evil that we have to live with, and if we have to live with them, we should at least all know the risks, rules, and proper handling of such things.

That said, I am still kind of hoping that some day I can move to a country with stricter gun laws and better health care for all. I honestly don't understand the logic of a country that makes guns so readily available, and yet doesn't provide universal health care to those same people who are inevitably going to end up shooting each other. It's like the American government wants  Americans to thin their own herds.
 
2013-12-05 01:00:23 PM  

cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?


It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation. And before you say "that's never happened!" look at California's SKS Registry, and what New York is doing now with their post Sandy Hook" idiocy.  Gun owners have been screwed over and over again by the anti gunners, who say one thing, and then push laws that do something else entirely.  That's what lead to the whole "no more compromise" bit on the part of so many gun owners.  Gun Control advocates generally follow the principle of "slowly boiling the frog", but their general goal is to ban all guns, period.  That's why they're pushing the "assault weapons ban" stupidity, when the guns in question are generally used in something like 1/2 of 1 percent of crimes involving guns.  It's an attempt to condition people to the idea of taking away all guns, period.
 
2013-12-05 01:00:26 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Frank N Stein: So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas? I'm probably just getting some ammo and such. Last year though, my old man gave me his old Winchester 94 that he won in a card game in the 70s. It's a lever action gun, so he wrapped it up and hid it in the corner like A Christmas Story.

Nope, we generally do that for birthdays for the kids.  Case in point:  My oldest's 6th birthday present, a "pink and sparkly purple" My Little Pony-themed AR-15:

[i135.photobucket.com image 717x269]


That's either a very detailed replica or you had the flash suppressor painted orange... why exactly?
 
2013-12-05 01:01:13 PM  

Frank N Stein: So farkers. Santa bringing anything boomstick related for Christmas?


Santa brought me one of these for Black Friday on sale for $550:
Adams Arms AR-15 Piston Upper Receiver

Well, maybe not Santa.  Who is the patron saint of BlackFridayThanksgivinnukah?  It was that guy.  It's going on a Colt A2 lower that has a SlideFire stock and a LMG Heavy Barrel upper already.
 
2013-12-05 01:01:27 PM  

ZeroCorpse: That said, I am still kind of hoping that some day I can move to a country with stricter gun laws and better health care for all.


Well, bye.
 
2013-12-05 01:01:34 PM  

ButtercupKitteh: i didn't realize you could get out of murder if the victim's family didn't press charges. I've seen articles about people killing people in self defense and it still being a murder case of some sort.
Shouldn't the owner of the gun here be charged with something at least? Like not having his weapon secured properly or something.
I'd also like to know why the hell they decided to load the gun after it being empty apparently all day, what were they planning to do with it?


I'm guessing they're all minors, so they applied the law a bit more loosely in this case.

Also, it's Florida, where it's legal to shoot someone if they scare you a little.
 
2013-12-05 01:02:29 PM  
I also handle all people as if they are loaded.
 
2013-12-05 01:03:20 PM  

R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.


So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).
 
2013-12-05 01:03:48 PM  

R.A.Danny: ZeroCorpse: That said, I am still kind of hoping that some day I can move to a country with stricter gun laws and better health care for all.

Well, bye.


Sure. Ignore the stuff that I wrote that serves your agenda, and focus on the personal side of it... And then you wonder why people don't speak in favor of your side more often?

See if I speak logically in your favor again, jerk.
 
2013-12-05 01:04:42 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).


This crap again? Bah blah SCOTUS blah blah Miller ruling BLAH BLAH BLAH
 
2013-12-05 01:05:18 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).


Registration is step one of Confiscation.
 
2013-12-05 01:05:19 PM  

ButtercupKitteh: i didn't realize you could get out of murder if the victim's family didn't press charges. I've seen articles about people killing people in self defense and it still being a murder case of some sort.
Shouldn't the owner of the gun here be charged with something at least? Like not having his weapon secured properly or something.
I'd also like to know why the hell they decided to load the gun after it being empty apparently all day, what were they planning to do with it?


I am wondering if the gun owner typically keeps it loaded, but unloaded it after the girl kept going on about wanting to play with it.  He may have reloaded it after they left because he didn't realize they were coming back, and he wasn't in the room when she decided to resume the dry-fire game.  Sad he lost his friends, but with her logic, it is for the best.

/unless the two surviving start dating real soon, and then I would agree they press charges then.
 
2013-12-05 01:05:28 PM  
DrewCurtisJr:

BR549:They should ALL be arrested......unfortunately, stupidity is not a crime.


"Doing something so stupid and reckless that it kills somebody is a crime."


Of course it is.  Obviously the assclown who owned the gun and put the bullets in it and the byotch who pulled the trigger should be charged.  What I was refering to was the other gerbil heads that were "dry firing" the gun before the bullets were inserted deserve to be charged as well.  However, the stupidity of THEIR actions did not result in the death of the victim, so in that case stupidity is not a crime.
 
2013-12-05 01:05:35 PM  

ZeroCorpse: See if I speak logically in your favor again, jerk.

There you go.

 
2013-12-05 01:06:08 PM  
Stupid farks, playing stupid games, winning stupid prizes!
 
2013-12-05 01:06:42 PM  

ChaosStar: That's either a very detailed replica or you had the flash suppressor painted orange... why exactly?


It's not painted, it's powdercoated, and I did it because it's legal and points out some particularly dangerous stupidity in the Federal Statutes.  Don't worry.  It simply screws off, isn't normally kept on the gun, and it's never on the gun when it's being fired, since powdercoating is heat-based, and it'd damage the finish on the flash supressor if it was on it when it was fired.

FTR:  Any moron can go into almost any drug store and buy a jar of blaze orange fingernail polish for something like $5 and paint the muzzle of a real gun blaze orange.  It's not even illegal, at least where I am.  You simply cannot assume that something that looks like a gun is actually a toy because the last 6mm of the barrel is blaze orange.  In fact, it's dangerous as hell to do so, as that picture demonstrates.
 
2013-12-05 01:07:03 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?

It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation. And before you say "that's never happened!" look at California's SKS Registry, and what New York is doing now with their post Sandy Hook" idiocy.  Gun owners have been screwed over and over again by the anti gunners, who say one thing, and then push laws that do something else entirely.  That's what lead to the whole "no more compromise" bit on the part of so many gun owners.  Gun Control advocates generally follow the principle of "slowly boiling the frog", but their general goal is to ban all guns, period.  That's why they're pushing the "assault weapons ban" stupidity, when the guns in question are generally used in something like 1/2 of 1 percent of crimes involving guns.  It's an attempt to condition people to the idea of taking away all guns, period.


To say nothing of the lack of enforcement.
If John Smith wants to buy a gun from Bob Doe in a Walmart parking lot, how exactly do you stop them from doing it without a back ground check?
Even if you find a magical solution for this issue, what system do they use to perform said background check? The NICS system is not an option for non-FFL's.
 
2013-12-05 01:07:23 PM  

metatronarchetype: demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).

Registration is step one of Confiscation.


Like the government couldn't do that now if it wanted to.
 
2013-12-05 01:09:14 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Like the government couldn't do that now if it wanted to.


It could try, but without a nice little list to go by, it woudn't get too many of them.
 
2013-12-05 01:10:03 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: ChaosStar: That's either a very detailed replica or you had the flash suppressor painted orange... why exactly?

It's not painted, it's powdercoated, and I did it because it's legal and points out some particularly dangerous stupidity in the Federal Statutes.  Don't worry.  It simply screws off, isn't normally kept on the gun, and it's never on the gun when it's being fired, since powdercoating is heat-based, and it'd damage the finish on the flash supressor if it was on it when it was fired.

FTR:  Any moron can go into almost any drug store and buy a jar of blaze orange fingernail polish for something like $5 and paint the muzzle of a real gun blaze orange.  It's not even illegal, at least where I am.  You simply cannot assume that something that looks like a gun is actually a toy because the last 6mm of the barrel is blaze orange.  In fact, it's dangerous as hell to do so, as that picture demonstrates.


That was my concern. I'm very happy you already addressed it.
/I hope she enjoys it
 
2013-12-05 01:10:13 PM  

HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Like the government couldn't do that now if it wanted to.

It could try, but without a nice little list to go by, it woudn't get too many of them.


Yea, sure.
 
2013-12-05 01:14:30 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.


Until they suspend a pile of due process rights along with the 2nd Amendment, they are not going to get very far.  If they do suspend the 4th and 2nd, citizens are going to be just a tad bit irritated.
 
2013-12-05 01:16:00 PM  

ButtercupKitteh: i didn't realize you could get out of murder if the victim's family didn't press charges. I've seen articles about people killing people in self defense and it still being a murder case of some sort.
Shouldn't the owner of the gun here be charged with something at least? Like not having his weapon secured properly or something.
I'd also like to know why the hell they decided to load the gun after it being empty apparently all day, what were they planning to do with it?


It wasn't murder. There was no intent or malice.
At worse it was manslaughter, as she was being an idiot by pointing a "unloaded" firearm at someone and pulling the trigger as a prank. All the witnesses gave the same story and the family spoke in favor of the girl. Yeah they could still prosecute, but since the family isn't making a fuss the DA will probably save the man hours.
 
2013-12-05 01:17:13 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.


Also, how are they gonig to find all of those guns that I lost in that bad boating accident a few years ago?  Are they going to start dredging every lake in the nation?  Or are they going to just take my word for it?  Or are they going to unsucessfully search my home anyway?

Their choice.  Doesn't matter to me.
 
2013-12-05 01:18:53 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks?

It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation. And before you say "that's never happened!" look at California's SKS Registry, and what New York is doing now with their post Sandy Hook" idiocy.  Gun owners have been screwed over and over again by the anti gunners, who say one thing, and then push laws that do something else entirely.  That's what lead to the whole "no more compromise" bit on the part of so many gun owners.  Gun Control advocates generally follow the principle of "slowly boiling the frog", but their general goal is to ban all guns, period.  That's why they're pushing the "assault weapons ban" stupidity, when the guns in question are generally used in something like 1/2 of 1 percent of crimes involving guns.  It's an attempt to condition people to the idea of taking away all guns, period.


1. States' Rights work that way. California is also getting firearms out of the hands of felons and the mentally ill.
2. "Screwed over and over"? Tell me, what's the term for the 100,000+ Americans who develop bullet holes every year?
3. I'm all for an "Assault Weapons Ban." The Militia restored will need weapons designed to kill the enemy, and .30-06 or .308 fills the ticket better than 5.54 or 5.56.
4. Pistols are a menace to society. That's why we took them away from lieutenants.
5. Your right to bear arms is subordinate to other people's right to go about their business bullethole-free.
 
2013-12-05 01:19:06 PM  

HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.

Until they suspend a pile of due process rights along with the 2nd Amendment, they are not going to get very far.  If they do suspend the 4th and 2nd, citizens are going to be just a tad bit irritated.


That doesn't change the fact that if the government wanted to take them, they could. I never said it would be done legally. This whole idea of a registration list being used as a step towards confiscation is bunk.
 
2013-12-05 01:21:05 PM  

syrynxx: Santa brought me one of these for Black Friday on sale for $550:
Adams Arms AR-15 Piston Upper Receiver

Well, maybe not Santa.  Who is the patron saint of BlackFridayThanksgivinnukah?  It was that guy.  It's going on a Colt A2 lower that has a SlideFire stock and a LMG Heavy Barrel upper already.


St. Garbriel Possenti (wiki) has been put forth to be the patron saint of handgunners, syrynxx. Will that work?  :D
 
2013-12-05 01:21:33 PM  

HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.

Until they suspend a pile of due process rights along with the 2nd Amendment, they are not going to get very far.  If they do suspend the 4th and 2nd, citizens are going to be just a tad bit irritated.


Like the 'terrorist watch list'? Due process won't stop them, they don't believe in that either.
 
2013-12-05 01:21:39 PM  

ChaosStar: That was my concern. I'm very happy you already addressed it.
/I hope she enjoys it


The vast majority of people who have seen the gun in question IRL are cops that I know personally.  The general first reaction has always been "WTF?!?" until I explain it to them, at which point the general reaction becomes "Oh, shiat, I didn't think of that."  Knowing me, they know that there's practically zero chance that the gun and/or flash suppressor would fall into "unauthorized" hands, and considering the other things that would fall into "unauthorized hands" if my security were to be breached (like a bunch of submachineguns, a few belt-fed real-life GPMGs, a bunch of sound suppressors, and some AOWs, all "papered") an orange flash suppressor on a semi-auto rifle is the least of their worries.
 
2013-12-05 01:23:10 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Yea, sure.

Until they suspend a pile of due process rights along with the 2nd Amendment, they are not going to get very far.  If they do suspend the 4th and 2nd, citizens are going to be just a tad bit irritated.

That doesn't change the fact that if the government wanted to take them, they could. I never said it would be done legally. This whole idea of a registration list being used as a step towards confiscation is bunk.


Except that it's being done right now, which proves that it's, in fact, not bunk.
 
2013-12-05 01:24:31 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: That doesn't change the fact that if the government wanted to take them, they could. I never said it would be done legally.


If govenment worked outside the rule of law, you could protect your property in any way you see fit.  Might as well consider them an armed burgler at that point.  And they should be treated as such.
 
2013-12-05 01:26:02 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: ChaosStar: That was my concern. I'm very happy you already addressed it.
/I hope she enjoys it

The vast majority of people who have seen the gun in question IRL are cops that I know personally.  The general first reaction has always been "WTF?!?" until I explain it to them, at which point the general reaction becomes "Oh, shiat, I didn't think of that."  Knowing me, they know that there's practically zero chance that the gun and/or flash suppressor would fall into "unauthorized" hands, and considering the other things that would fall into "unauthorized hands" if my security were to be breached (like a bunch of submachineguns, a few belt-fed real-life GPMGs, a bunch of sound suppressors, and some AOWs, all "papered") an orange flash suppressor on a semi-auto rifle is the least of their worries.


I'm going to assume you're either a class 3 manufacturer/dealer, had a family member buying all sorts of fun toys pre-1964, or you're independently wealthy.
Either way, party at your place? :D
 
2013-12-05 01:26:22 PM  

HeadLever: Hung Like A Tic-Tac: That doesn't change the fact that if the government wanted to take them, they could. I never said it would be done legally.

If govenment worked outside the rule of law, you could protect your property in any way you see fit.  Might as well consider them an armed burgler at that point.  And they should be treated as such.


Good luck with that.
 
2013-12-05 01:27:11 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: 4. Pistols are a menace to society. That's why we took them away from lieutenants.
5. Your right to bear arms is subordinate to other people's right to go about their business bullethole-free.


OK, I admit it, I LOLed at 4.  Regarding taking away my rights to prevent other people from sprouting GSWs:  Not So Much.  That argument can and has been used repeatedly to enable a Police State.  During the 20th Century, gun control was a necessary precursor to the murder of literally hundreds of millions of people.  We're talking literally about MOUNTAINS of dead human beings.  That's unacceptable, period.

If the Government can't trust us with our machineguns, why do we trust them with theirs?
 
2013-12-05 01:28:45 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Like the 'terrorist watch list'? Due process won't stop them, they don't believe in that either


That is a major concern, but being placed on a watchlist and having issues at TSA checkpoints is a bit different than a complete suspension of search and seizure laws.

Utimlatly I agree and it may take anothe Ruby Ridge for them to see the value in strong Due Process rights.  I hope not, but they don't seem to be listening to us right now.

/pun somewhat intended
 
2013-12-05 01:30:25 PM  

stevarooni: St. Garbriel Possenti (wiki) has been put forth to be the patron saint of handgunners, syrynxx. Will that work? :D


I guess Ole Gabe will have to do. Although my first mental image of a Gabe is that 500-lb guy who runs Steam and he would never fit down my chimney.
 
2013-12-05 01:30:32 PM  

Hung Like A Tic-Tac: Good luck with that.


Tell them the same thing.
 
2013-12-05 01:33:27 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: If the Government can't trust us with our  machineguns, why do we trust them with theirs?


Then registered. I'm OK with that.
 
2013-12-05 01:34:01 PM  

HeadLever: Ow! That was my feelings!: Like the 'terrorist watch list'? Due process won't stop them, they don't believe in that either

That is a major concern, but being placed on a watchlist and having issues at TSA checkpoints is a bit different than a complete suspension of search and seizure laws.

Utimlatly I agree and it may take anothe Ruby Ridge for them to see the value in strong Due Process rights.  I hope not, but they don't seem to be listening to us right now.

/pun somewhat intended


Ok, my point was more basic. That many Democrats want to use the 'terrorism watch list' for a lot more than just denying individuals a right to travel, they want to use it to deny citizens their 2A rights, among other things.
 
2013-12-05 01:34:17 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: OK, I admit it, I LOLed at 4.


3 made me lol. I would say that there is no way he is serious, but I have seen gun control advocates seriously push for things that are even more retarded.
 
2013-12-05 01:35:11 PM  

stevarooni: cptjeff: Then why the hell does the NRA and whatnot oppose universal background checks? They're fighting to keep the loopholes that allow violent criminals to walk into a gun show and just randomly buy a gun in a private sale open.

Why go to a gun show when you can just find some dude on the street who will sell to you, no questions asked...which would also occur if background checks were mandated by the law?


You realize that it's nowhere near that simple to buy an illegal gun, right? They have to know who you are, you have to know who they are. They're not going to sell to a guy who might be an undercover cop, and if you don't know the reputation of the guy selling it to you, he's going to screw you over, and probably just mug you and take your money.

No solution is ever going to be perfect. But why not make the situation better?

Secret Master of All Flatulence: It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation.


Ah, black helicopters stupidity. That's why.

Do you really think that the vast majority of the US Congress agreeing with you, along with explicit provisions in the bill prohibiting the usage of the data for any type of registry, isn't going to sufficient protection? You're not a tiny, persecuted group. The US Government and society is pro gun. Some of us are just asking for a little farking sanity. Like trying to make it much harder for convicted felons to buy guns.

If you don't want to try and solve the problem, just say so. Don't rattle off some bullcrap about how you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Because you're fighting to allow criminals easy access to guns.
 
2013-12-05 01:36:33 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: If the Government can't trust us with our machineguns, why do we trust them with theirs?


(They're locked up in guarded armories and issued only to people extensively trained in their safe use.)

And there are people I don't trust with a dull spork, let alone a firearm.
 
2013-12-05 01:39:26 PM  

cptjeff: They're not going to sell to a guy who might be an undercover cop,


That'll come as a surprise to a lot of undercover cops.
 
2013-12-05 01:39:36 PM  

cptjeff: Ah, black helicopters stupidity. That's why.


Why would they want that information when it is not necessary to the task at hand?
 
2013-12-05 01:40:35 PM  

umad: Secret Master of All Flatulence: OK, I admit it, I LOLed at 4.

3 made me lol. I would say that there is no way he is serious, but I have seen gun control advocates seriously push for things that are even more retarded.


You'd take an M4 over an M14, even-Steven body armor?
 
2013-12-05 01:42:04 PM  

ChaosStar: I'm going to assume you're either a class 3 manufacturer/dealer, had a family member buying all sorts of fun toys pre-1964, or you're independently wealthy.
Either way, party at your place? :D


Retired 01/03 FFL/SOT here.  I'd like to shoot a lot more than I do nowadays.  I've got plenty of ammo that I put away in the '80s and '90s, but don't shoot ammo I can't afford to replace unless it's absolutely necessary, and current ammo prices are what they are.
 
2013-12-05 01:42:23 PM  

R.A.Danny: demaL-demaL-yeH: R.A.Danny: They fought against the part where the checks were going to be used as de facto registration.

So farking what? The farking Founders did it with arms (Return of the Militia).

This crap again? Bah blah SCOTUS blah blah Miller ruling BLAH BLAH BLAH


SCOTUS did not. Congre$$ did.
 
2013-12-05 01:44:36 PM  

Nina_Hartley's_Ass: cptjeff: They're not going to sell to a guy who might be an undercover cop,

That'll come as a surprise to a lot of undercover cops.


Most actual undercover cops actually know what they're doing and aren't just walking up to guy on the street and asking, "hey, know where I can get a gun?". They spend a whole lot of time building credibility and making sure the other guy is sure that they aren't an undercover cop before they try to pull a sting like that.
 
2013-12-05 01:46:20 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: (They're locked up in guarded armories and issued only to people extensively trained in their safe use.)



Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.
 
2013-12-05 01:48:22 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: (They're locked up in guarded armories and issued only to people extensively trained in their safe use.)


Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.


That's not a machine gun. They aren't even - with extremely limited exceptions - full auto.
 
2013-12-05 01:48:50 PM  

cptjeff: Nina_Hartley's_Ass: cptjeff: They're not going to sell to a guy who might be an undercover cop,

That'll come as a surprise to a lot of undercover cops.

Most actual undercover cops actually know what they're doing and aren't just walking up to guy on the street and asking, "hey, know where I can get a gun?". They spend a whole lot of time building credibility and making sure the other guy is sure that they aren't an undercover cop before they try to pull a sting like that.


agrees.
i.lv3.hbo.com
 
2013-12-05 01:51:59 PM  
Dumb biatch obvious knows nothing of gun safety, Never point a gun at something your not going to shoot, especially another human being.   and nevr assume a gun is unloaded, always treat it as if it was loaded.
 
2013-12-05 01:52:39 PM  

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


There are plenty of guns in my house (most of which are unloaded and locked up) and my kid gets plenty of education about how to handle guns, but I still insist that whenever he plays with a toy gun he adheres as closely as possible to the four rules of gun safety. I even get to hear him correcting his peers about muzzle and trigger discipline.

It's my belief that get lax when handling anything that looks or feels like a gun will eventually lead to an unconscious tendency to be lax with the real thing. Conversely, if you discipline yourself to be more careful you may find that you're keeping your finger off the trigger of a spray bottle or drill, but you're also much less likely to have a tragic moment of inattention with a firearm.

scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2013-12-05 01:52:50 PM  
This just in! stupid people do stupid stuff! Do you think training would have prevented dumb things from happening?  Guns put holes in things.  How hard of a concept is that to grasp?  People get reckless and they get hurt or killed.  That is every kid driving down a country road at 3 a.m. at 90 mph and wiping out.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: It's extremely simple:  It's to prevent a backdoor "Universal Gun Registry".  Gun registration is a necessary precursor to gun confiscation.

Ah, black helicopters stupidity. That's why.

Do you really think that the vast majority of the US Congress agreeing with you, along with explicit provisions in the bill prohibiting the usage of the data for any type of registry, isn't going to sufficient protection? You're not a tiny, persecuted group. The US Government and society is pro gun. Some of us are just asking for a little farking sanity. Like trying to make it much harder for convicted felons to buy guns.

If you don't want to try and solve the problem, just say so. Don't rattle off some bullcrap about how you want to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Because you're fighting to allow criminals easy access to guns.


Pro gun? The US govt is pro gun?  I think that would have to do on how much opposition there is against it.  Hillary and Sen. Frankenstien have already said they want them gone.  Chicagobama kept CCW out of Illinois til the supreme court forced them to do it, and they are still trying to fight it. The American people might be pro-gun, but powers that be in our government are very polarized against it.
 
2013-12-05 01:52:55 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Ok, my point was more basic. That many Democrats want to use the 'terrorism watch list' for a lot more than just denying individuals a right to travel, they want to use it to deny citizens their 2A rights, among other things.


I'm waiting for one party in a nasty divorce to use another party's taking of underaged children through a TSA checkpoint as the basis for denying the other party any form of child custody, on the basis of demonstrating willingness to have the child sexually assaulted by TSA screeners.  Sooner or later, it'll happen.
 
2013-12-05 02:00:50 PM  

JesseL: There are plenty of guns in my house (most of which are unloaded and locked up) and my kid gets plenty of education about how to handle guns, but I still insist that whenever he plays with a toy gun he adheres as closely as possible to the four rules of gun safety. I even get to hear him correcting his peers about muzzle and trigger discipline.

It's my belief that get lax when handling anything that looks or feels like a gun will eventually lead to an unconscious tendency to be lax with the real thing. Conversely, if you discipline yourself to be more careful you may find that you're keeping your finger off the trigger of a spray bottle or drill, but you're also much less likely to have a tragic moment of inattention with a firearm.

[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x960]


Nice carbine. Did you redo the stock?
 
2013-12-05 02:05:00 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.

That's not a machine gun. They aren't even - with extremely limited exceptions - full auto.


Using what definition of "machinegun"?  I generally operate on the whole "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" definition, which doesn't cover semi-autos, but does cover guns with a "burst" and true "full auto" capabiliity.  I don't know where you are, but where I am, the guns in question most certainly ARE "machineguns" under my definition.  And yes, I've both examined the guns in question closely AND actually fired them.
 
2013-12-05 02:06:59 PM  
Oh, and BTW:  I generally operate on the "If it requires a Form 10, it's a machinegun" assumption.
 
2013-12-05 02:13:43 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: JesseL: There are plenty of guns in my house (most of which are unloaded and locked up) and my kid gets plenty of education about how to handle guns, but I still insist that whenever he plays with a toy gun he adheres as closely as possible to the four rules of gun safety. I even get to hear him correcting his peers about muzzle and trigger discipline.

It's my belief that get lax when handling anything that looks or feels like a gun will eventually lead to an unconscious tendency to be lax with the real thing. Conversely, if you discipline yourself to be more careful you may find that you're keeping your finger off the trigger of a spray bottle or drill, but you're also much less likely to have a tragic moment of inattention with a firearm.

[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x960]

Nice carbine. Did you redo the stock?


It's actually a brand new gun in .22lr. http://www.legacysports.com/m-1-22-carbine

I won it in a contest earlier this year - and if you read those links you'll see why I felt like a total dick for accepting. My wife and kid have laid their own claims on it though so I don't feel as bad.
 
2013-12-05 02:16:13 PM  
Now that's what I call an alibi.
 
2013-12-05 02:16:18 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.

That's not a machine gun. They aren't even - with extremely limited exceptions - full auto.

Using what definition of "machinegun"?  I generally operate on the whole "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" definition, which doesn't cover semi-autos, but does cover guns with a "burst" and true "full auto" capabiliity.  I don't know where you are, but where I am, the guns in question most certainly ARE "machineguns" under my definition.  And yes, I've both examined the guns in question closely AND actually fired them.



I think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.

media.salon.com
 
2013-12-05 02:22:10 PM  

GanjSmokr: think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.


What would lead you to believe that I consider civilians who call other civilians "civilians" are trained professionals?
Idiots who play dress-up soldier and act like thugs are about as far from professional as you can get.
 
2013-12-05 02:24:07 PM  

GanjSmokr: Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.

That's not a machine gun. They aren't even - with extremely limited exceptions - full auto.

Using what definition of "machinegun"?  I generally operate on the whole "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" definition, which doesn't cover semi-autos, but does cover guns with a "burst" and true "full auto" capabiliity.  I don't know where you are, but where I am, the guns in question most certainly ARE "machineguns" under my definition.  And yes, I've both examined the guns in question closely AND actually fired them.

I think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.

[media.salon.com image 750x500]


Common sense establishes that assault weapons are suitable only for mass murder, which is why they should be prohibited to all but members of law enforcement.
 
2013-12-05 02:31:39 PM  

Dimensio: Common sense establishes that assault weapons are suitable only for mass murder, which is why they should be prohibited to all but members of law enforcement.


We can discuss the merits of this idea or the lack thereof, but first we must settle on what defines an assault weapon.  Do you mean a weapon capable of firing fully automatically which chambers an intermediate cartridge, or are you just talking about semi-automatic rifles?
 
2013-12-05 02:33:28 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.

What would lead you to believe that I consider civilians who call other civilians "civilians" are trained professionals?
Idiots who play dress-up soldier and act like thugs are about as far from professional as you can get.



Police are not considered "civilians" by the common definition of "civilian"... or did you mean something else?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian

ci·vil·ian
 noun \sə-ˈvil-yən  also -ˈvi-yən\
: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force


/yes, word definitions change.  Let's change this one now too so it can mean whatever the hell we want it to mean.
 
2013-12-05 02:34:30 PM  

HeadLever: Smidge204: Tell that to the people who protest background checks

Who would that be?


The National Rifle Association, for starters.

I'm sure if I spend more than zero seconds looking, I can find some examples of people opposed to even existing, meager background check requirements.


HeadLever: This, for your information, is called Due Process. Maybe you should look it up.


Yes... and Due Process would prevent absolutely everything you just mentioned. are you against permitting, licensing and registering firearms too? What if they decide a permit should cost $25,000?


Secret Master of All Flatulence: I'm pretty sure that if you're currently in jail on a felony conviction, you're not allowed to own a gun, either.


So you're just going to glance over the fact that there are millions of citizens that are neither in jail nor allowed to vote, huh?
=Smidge=
 
2013-12-05 02:34:50 PM  

metatronarchetype: We can discuss the merits of this idea or the lack thereof, but first we must settle on what defines an assault weapon.  Do you mean a weapon capable of firing fully automatically which chambers an intermediate cartridge, or are you just talking about semi-automatic rifles?


He's most likely using the "If it can be used for a random drive-by bayonetting, it's an assault weapon."  OTOH, he may be using the British definition of "assault weapon", which includes glass beer mugs.
 
2013-12-05 02:36:58 PM  

metatronarchetype: Dimensio: Common sense establishes that assault weapons are suitable only for mass murder, which is why they should be prohibited to all but members of law enforcement.

We can discuss the merits of this idea or the lack thereof, but first we must settle on what defines an assault weapon.  Do you mean a weapon capable of firing fully automatically which chambers an intermediate cartridge, or are you just talking about semi-automatic rifles?


My understanding is that the presence of a pistol grip, a threaded barrel or an adjustable stock transforms a conventional hunting or target rifle into a deadly assault weapon. However, I also understand that some California lawmakers have sought to expand the definition to include any semi-automatic rifle fed from a detachable magazine.
 
2013-12-05 02:38:43 PM  

Dimensio: My understanding is that the presence of a pistol grip, a threaded barrel or an adjustable stock transforms a conventional hunting or target rifle into a deadly assault weapon. However, I also understand that some California lawmakers have sought to expand the definition to include any semi-automatic rifle fed from a detachable magazine.


But what do you think?  You said it's common sense that assault weapons are only suitable for mass murder.  When you formed this opinion, what was it that you were thinking of?
 
2013-12-05 02:41:10 PM  
Smidge204:
So you're just going to glance over the fact that there are millions of citizens that are neither in jail nor allowed to vote, huh?
=Smidge=


Given what I posted about only 9 states still with any form of voting restrictions on convicted felons that aren't actually serving their sentence, it's what's considered to be the "minority rule" from a legal perspective.
 
2013-12-05 02:51:20 PM  

Smidge204: are you against permitting, licensing and registering firearms too? What if they decide a permit should cost $25,000?


I am.  Having a registry is something the vast majority of gun owners oppose - for good reason.
 
2013-12-05 02:54:23 PM  

metatronarchetype: Dimensio: My understanding is that the presence of a pistol grip, a threaded barrel or an adjustable stock transforms a conventional hunting or target rifle into a deadly assault weapon. However, I also understand that some California lawmakers have sought to expand the definition to include any semi-automatic rifle fed from a detachable magazine.

But what do you think?  You said it's common sense that assault weapons are only suitable for mass murder.  When you formed this opinion, what was it that you were thinking of?


I stated that "assault weapons" are suitable only for mass murder, and therefore that law enforcement should have exclusive access to them.

Study it out.
 
2013-12-05 02:55:25 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: Using what definition of "machinegun"?  I generally operate on the whole "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" definition, which doesn't cover semi-autos, but does cover guns with a "burst" and true "full auto" capabiliity.  I don't know where you are, but where I am, the guns in question most certainly ARE "machineguns" under my definition.  And yes, I've both examined the guns in question closely AND actually fired them.


Hmm. A standard-issue service rifle is not a machine gun. I've never had to set up a range card with FPLs for any M16 variant.
 
2013-12-05 02:56:27 PM  

Dimensio: Study it out.


You're killing me.
 
2013-12-05 02:59:02 PM  

GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"


by other civilians.
 
2013-12-05 03:03:24 PM  

HeadLever: Having a registry is something the vast majority of gun owners oppose - for good reason.


Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja.
 
2013-12-05 03:07:02 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: HeadLever: Having a registry is something the vast majority of gun owners oppose - for good reason.

Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja.


History certainly is
 
2013-12-05 03:07:47 PM  

Dimensio: I stated that "assault weapons" are suitable only for mass murder, and therefore that law enforcement should have exclusive access to them.

Study it out.


You think assault weapons should be restricted, I understand that.  I'm trying to see if you know what an assault weapon actually is.

Apparently, you don't.

demaL-demaL-yeH: Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja.


Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.
 
2013-12-05 03:07:55 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Drummed-up conspiracy freak paranoia is not good reason, Sonja


What you see as drummed up paranoia, others see as prudent precaution aginst a tired and true method of gun confiscation.

Never mind the fact that will never comply anyway....
 
2013-12-05 03:10:53 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"

by other civilians.


So you are saying "Police are not considered 'civilians' by other people who are actually considered 'civilians' by the accepted definition"?

OK then.... I think you agree with me.
 
2013-12-05 03:13:37 PM  

metatronarchetype: You think assault weapons should be restricted, I understand that. I'm trying to see if you know what an assault weapon actually is.

Apparently, you don't.


Not familar with Dimensio, I see.  You need to take everything in the context of the Snark turned up to 11.

His point here is a facious one where only the police and millitary should be able to commit mass murder.  You, plebe, should have no such right or protection from such.
 
2013-12-05 03:16:58 PM  

Carousel Beast: skozlaw: It's never a tragedy when stupid people get shot doing stupid things. Tragedy in this sort of circumstance implies an accident and getting shot playing with guns like they're children's toys is never accidental.

Ever.

The girl should be charged with murder and everyone else involved as accomplices to it.

If gun owners want to be seen as responsible, let's help them out by starting to hold them responsible when they act like farging retards with the damn things. Maybe if we started locking idiots like these up for long periods of time the only ones left in any significant measure WOULD be the ones that are actually responsible after a time.

That's some weapons grade Derp there. Substitute "automobile" for gun and I believe you'll see why.


Nah, automobile owners and operators should be held to the same proposed standard of accountability as gun owners and operators.
 
2013-12-05 03:18:02 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Hmm. A standard-issue service rifle is not a machine gun. I've never had to set up a range card with FPLs for any M16 variant.


Which service?  ATF considers a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".  Of course, ATF has also ruled that a run of the mill 14 inch long white tennis shoe shoelace is also considered to be a "machinegun"...and no, I'm not joking.
 
2013-12-05 03:19:50 PM  
Oh, and here's a link that contains the ATF letter in question:  http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/
 
2013-12-05 03:28:22 PM  

metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.


Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

And I'm beginning to suspect that there are a bunch of people from the third category who post in these threads.
 
2013-12-05 03:30:02 PM  

GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"

by other civilians.

So you are saying "Police are not considered 'civilians' by other people who are actually considered 'civilians' by the accepted definition"?

OK then.... I think you agree with me.


No. Cops are civilians. Paramilitary is not military, otherwise Boy Scouts wouldn't be civilians.
 
2013-12-05 03:32:09 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

And I'm beginning to suspect that there are a bunch of people from the third category who post in these threads.


Registries have also been useful in the city of New York following implementation of firearm prohibitions that included no grandfather clause. Owners of newly banned firearms were contacted by the government and instructed that they were no longer legally allowed to own newly banned registered firearms, and that the firearms were to be removed from the city, destroyed, or turned in to the government without compensation.
 
2013-12-05 03:33:29 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.


Good job at completely ignoring the other side of that confiscation argument.  The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.
 
2013-12-05 03:35:25 PM  

HeadLever: demaL-demaL-yeH: Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

Good job at completely ignoring the other side of that confiscation argument.  The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.


He doesn't really have a problem with that.
 
2013-12-05 03:36:34 PM  

Dimensio: demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

And I'm beginning to suspect that there are a bunch of people from the third category who post in these threads.

Registries have also been useful in the city of New York following implementation of firearm prohibitions that included no grandfather clause. Owners of newly banned firearms were contacted by the government and instructed that they were no longer legally allowed to own newly banned registered firearms, and that the firearms were to be removed from the city, destroyed, or turned in to the government without compensation.


The law was changed by their elected representatives. They were then given time to comply with the law. The Supreme Court (page 54 of your favorite decision) says that it's perfectly kosher.  What's your beef?
 
2013-12-05 03:36:46 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.


5.  Confiscation from people who were told by the Government that they were essentially grandfathered into legality if they registered their rifles, until the Government in question changed their mind, and ordered them to surrender their weapons, at the point of (unregistered) guns of the same kind in the hands of Governmental employees.

There ya go.  FTFY.
 
2013-12-05 03:37:08 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"

by other civilians.

So you are saying "Police are not considered 'civilians' by other people who are actually considered 'civilians' by the accepted definition"?

OK then.... I think you agree with me.

No. Cops are civilians. Paramilitary is not military, otherwise Boy Scouts wouldn't be civilians.



OK... once more for the ignorant - by the accepted-by-everyone-but-you definition of "civilian", cops are NOT civilians.  I posted the def for you up-thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian
A civilian under international humanitarian law (also known as the laws of war) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or other militia. Civilians are distinct from combatants. They are afforded a degree of legal protection from the effects of war and military occupation. In U.S. parlance, a civilian is also considered one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force.[1]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian
ci·vil·ian
 noun \sə-ˈvil-yən  also -ˈvi-yən\
: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian
ci·vil·ian
  [si-vil-yuh]  Show IPA
noun1.
a person who is not on active duty with
 a military, naval,  police, or fire fighting  .


If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.
 
2013-12-05 03:37:37 PM  

R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.


obviously.  Perfect example on how the gun grabbers use 'reasonable' arguments in order to implement unreasonable legislation.
 
2013-12-05 03:39:00 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: The law was changed by their elected representatives. They were then given time to comply with the law. The Supreme Court (page 54 of your favorite decision) says that it's perfectly kosher.  What's your beef?


Given the lack of debate involved in that process, do you honestly consider that to be indicative of a remotely free society?  Keep in mind that for many, many years, literal slavery was entirely legal in this country.
 
2013-12-05 03:41:25 PM  

GanjSmokr: If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.


Wait, are you actually arguing that FIREFIGHTERS are not "civilians"?  Because that's what it appears that you're saying.
 
2013-12-05 03:43:24 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dimensio: demaL-demaL-yeH: metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.

Yes, they have.
1. Confiscation from people breaking the law.
2. Confiscation from convicted felons.
3. Confiscation from the mentally ill.
4. Confiscation from people convicted of domestic abuse.

Confiscation of firearms is not necessarily a bad thing.

And I'm beginning to suspect that there are a bunch of people from the third category who post in these threads.

Registries have also been useful in the city of New York following implementation of firearm prohibitions that included no grandfather clause. Owners of newly banned firearms were contacted by the government and instructed that they were no longer legally allowed to own newly banned registered firearms, and that the firearms were to be removed from the city, destroyed, or turned in to the government without compensation.

The law was changed by their elected representatives. They were then given time to comply with the law. The Supreme Court (page 54 of your favorite decision) says that it's perfectly kosher.  What's your beef?


I am merely noting that concerns of registries being used for confiscation are validated by previous events, and that your list is incomplete.
 
2013-12-05 03:43:30 PM  

HeadLever: R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.

obviously.  Perfect example on how the gun grabbers use 'reasonable' arguments in order to implement unreasonable legislation.


I think we can all agree that marijuana kills brain cells.
 
2013-12-05 03:44:48 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: GanjSmokr: If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.

Wait, are you actually arguing that FIREFIGHTERS are not "civilians"?  Because that's what it appears that you're saying.


By the currently accepted definition of "civilians", firefighters are not considered to be included.  I'm not really "arguing" the fact, just stating it for those who don't care to accept it.
 
2013-12-05 03:45:41 PM  

GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"

by other civilians.

So you are saying "Police are not considered 'civilians' by other people who are actually considered 'civilians' by the accepted definition"?

OK then.... I think you agree with me.

No. Cops are civilians. Paramilitary is not military, otherwise Boy Scouts wouldn't be civilians.


OK... once more for the ignorant - by the accepted-by-everyone-but-you definition of "civilian", cops are NOT civilians.  I posted the def for you up-thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian
A civilian under international humanitarian law (also known as the laws of war) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or other militia. Civilians are distinct from combatants. They are afforded a degree of legal protection from the effects of war and military occupation. In U.S. parlance, a civilian is also considered one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force.[1]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian
ci·vil·ian
 noun \sə-ˈvil-yən  also -ˈvi-yən\
: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian
ci·vil·ian
  [si-vil-yuh]  Show IPA
noun1.
a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval,  police, or fire fighting  .


If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.


People can accept whatever the fark they want. It doesn't mean much when they do.

Until police or firefighters are operating under the DoD and subject to the UCMJ, they're civilians in every way that actually matters - and what idiots think constitutes a civilian does not matter.

We have a word to distinguish military personnel from non-military persons. It's a useful word. Trying to change it into something else is either stupid, or a sign of a social engineering effort to create a divide between people that would otherwise not exist.
 
2013-12-05 03:48:20 PM  

JesseL: GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: demaL-demaL-yeH: GanjSmokr: Police are not considered "civilians"

by other civilians.

So you are saying "Police are not considered 'civilians' by other people who are actually considered 'civilians' by the accepted definition"?

OK then.... I think you agree with me.

No. Cops are civilians. Paramilitary is not military, otherwise Boy Scouts wouldn't be civilians.


OK... once more for the ignorant - by the accepted-by-everyone-but-you definition of "civilian", cops are NOT civilians.  I posted the def for you up-thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian
A civilian under international humanitarian law (also known as the laws of war) is a person who is not a member of his or her country's armed forces or other militia. Civilians are distinct from combatants. They are afforded a degree of legal protection from the effects of war and military occupation. In U.S. parlance, a civilian is also considered one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force.[1]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civilian
ci·vil·ian
 noun \sə-ˈvil-yən  also -ˈvi-yən\
: a person who is not a member of the military or of a police or firefighting force

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilian
ci·vil·ian
  [si-vil-yuh]  Show IPA
noun1.
a person who is not on active duty with a military, naval,  police, or fire fighting  .


If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.

People can accept whatever the fark they want. It doesn't mean much when they do.

Until police or firefighters are operating under the DoD and subject to the UCMJ, they're civilians in every way that actually matters - and what idiots think constitutes a civilian does not matter.

We have a word to distinguish military personnel from non-military persons. It's a useful word. Trying to change it into something else is either stupid ...



You should really let all the dictionary companies know that they're wrong.
 
2013-12-05 03:49:51 PM  
No one here  (other than the pothead) really thinks that gun ownership should be limited to non civilians. Why is the subject being changed?
 
2013-12-05 03:53:01 PM  

umad: CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?

The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.


You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to own a firearm.

Common sense dictates that the gun owner should not have had the gun "sitting around" to be played with. Once he saw they were going to play with it, he should have taken it away as though from a child and put it away.  He compounded his negligence by loading the gun and putting it back into the "play" zone. That turned it from negligent, into criminally negligent.

While the two were completely stupid to play with a gun in the first place, the gun should never had been there for them to play with.
 
2013-12-05 03:53:58 PM  

R.A.Danny: No one here  (other than the pothead) really thinks that gun ownership should be limited to non civilians. Why is the subject being changed?


Just to be clear, I don't think that gun ownership should be limited to non-civilians...

/I am a pot head but it's legal here
//what's your vice?  Booze? Tobacco? Caffeine? Pain pills? Asian trannies? FARK gun threads?
 
2013-12-05 03:54:02 PM  

HeadLever: The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.

R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.

metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.

GanjSmokr: OK then.... I think you agree with me.

Dimensio: Study it out.

Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".


Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.
 
2013-12-05 03:55:36 PM  

GanjSmokr: You should really let all the dictionary companies know that they're wrong.


Gladly. While I'm at it I'll explain that making "literally" mean the same thing as "figuratively" is wrong and stupid.

Dictionary publishers are poor authorities to appeal to for words with precise technical or legal meanings, doubly so when they choose a descriptive approach instead of a prescriptive one.
 
2013-12-05 04:00:32 PM  

JesseL: GanjSmokr: You should really let all the dictionary companies know that they're wrong.

Gladly. While I'm at it I'll explain that making "literally" mean the same thing as "figuratively" is wrong and stupid.

Dictionary publishers are poor authorities to appeal to for words with precise technical or legal meanings, doubly so when they choose a descriptive approach instead of a prescriptive one.


On that we can agree, but alas it is in our vernacular as that now, isn't it?

Just like the words "clips" and "magazines" are apparently interchangeable now even though up until recently they were used to refer to two different things.  I still like to use the correct terms for those items, but I'm just a pedant that way I guess.
 
2013-12-05 04:05:08 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: HeadLever: The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.
R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.
metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.
GanjSmokr: OK then.... I think you agree with me.
Dimensio: Study it out.
Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.


I believe that you have confused personal attacks with a rational justification of your position.
 
2013-12-05 04:05:19 PM  

JesseL: If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.

People can accept whatever the fark they want. It doesn't mean much when they do.
Until police or firefighters are operating under the DoD and subject to the UCMJ, they're civilians in every way that actually matters - and what idiots think constitutes a civilian does not matter.
We have a word to distinguish military personnel from non-military persons. It's a useful word. Trying to change it into something else is either stupid, or a sign of a social engineering effort to create a divide between people that would otherwise not exist.


I don't believe he takes kindly to being corrected or knowing that he's thought of as a moron.

/Were you going to do any more work on that crazy Israeli Hi-Power?
 
2013-12-05 04:11:29 PM  
demaL-demaL-yeH:
/Were you going to do any more work on that crazy Israeli Hi-Power?

I sold it a few months back. Got out of it about what I put into it, and gained some good experience.

I've taken on and finished a few other projects since then:

Enfield no.4 tanker:
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net

Ruger 10/22 barrel threaded and modified to go on a 77/22:
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net

YHM QD suppressor mount fitted to a FN SPR:
scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net

http://www.facebook.com/LambertGunworks
 
2013-12-05 04:13:57 PM  

Dimensio: demaL-demaL-yeH: HeadLever: The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.
R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.
metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.
GanjSmokr: OK then.... I think you agree with me.
Dimensio: Study it out.
Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.

I believe that you have confused personal attacks with a rational justification of your position.


There's something about a combination of pants-pissing fear, paranoia, defective reasoning, and bad judgment that has me leaning toward distrust.

/Nothing personal.
//I've felt far more comfortable turning my back on barely-trained 17-19 year-olds armed with automatic weapons than I would with any farker on that list.
///Nothing personal: I was training said armed teenagers.
 
2013-12-05 04:18:14 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: JesseL: If you are going to chose to ignore what people accept as a definition of that word, don't be surprised if people correct you or think you are a moron.

People can accept whatever the fark they want. It doesn't mean much when they do.
Until police or firefighters are operating under the DoD and subject to the UCMJ, they're civilians in every way that actually matters - and what idiots think constitutes a civilian does not matter.
We have a word to distinguish military personnel from non-military persons. It's a useful word. Trying to change it into something else is either stupid, or a sign of a social engineering effort to create a divide between people that would otherwise not exist.

I don't believe he takes kindly to being corrected or knowing that he's thought of as a moron.

/Were you going to do any more work on that crazy Israeli Hi-Power?


Tell you what - once you get the dictionary companies to change their definitions to be what you think they should be, you can correct me.  Until then, you're just wrong.

Sound fair, kiddo?
 
2013-12-05 04:19:15 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dimensio: demaL-demaL-yeH: HeadLever: The part wher goverment decides that ordinary citizens shouldn't own guns.
R.A.Danny: He doesn't really have a problem with that.
metatronarchetype: Registries have been used to help aid confiscation efforts.  This is a real thing that has actually happened in real life.  Being concerned that the same thing will happen again is not paranoia, it's common sense.
GanjSmokr: OK then.... I think you agree with me.
Dimensio: Study it out.
Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.

I believe that you have confused personal attacks with a rational justification of your position.

There's something about a combination of pants-pissing fear, paranoia, defective reasoning, and bad judgment that has me leaning toward distrust.

/Nothing personal.
//I've felt far more comfortable turning my back on barely-trained 17-19 year-olds armed with automatic weapons than I would with any farker on that list.
///Nothing personal: I was training said armed teenagers.


You are again relying upon personal attacks rather than upon rational argumentation. While I understand that personal attacks are easier to issue -- especially when advocating a position lacking any intellectual merit -- they do not actually enhance your credibility.
 
2013-12-05 04:19:53 PM  

JesseL: demaL-demaL-yeH:
/Were you going to do any more work on that crazy Israeli Hi-Power?

I sold it a few months back. Got out of it about what I put into it, and gained some good experience.

I've taken on and finished a few other projects since then:

Enfield no.4 tanker:
[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x540]

Ruger 10/22 barrel threaded and modified to go on a 77/22:
[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 540x720]
[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x540]
[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 720x540]

YHM QD suppressor mount fitted to a FN SPR:
[scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 850x637]

http://www.facebook.com/LambertGunworks


That's some fine smithin'.
If only I had the extra wheelbarrow of cash and could    sucker   persuade some fine smith to make me a southpaw M1A with a nice match barrel.
/Brother already refused, the jerk.
 
2013-12-05 04:25:12 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: That's some fine smithin'.
If only I had the extra wheelbarrow of cash and could sucker persuade some fine smith to make me a southpaw M1A with a nice match barrel.
/Brother already refused, the jerk.


Thanks :)

Do you mean a completely mirrored M1A? That would definitely require a wheelbarrow full of cash.

Lesser projects, my rates are quite reasonable ;)
 
2013-12-05 04:34:30 PM  

Dimensio: GanjSmokr: Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: Suggestion:  Take a walk through a parking lot with a bunch of cop cars in them.  You'll generally see a whole bunch of M4 carbines, complete with "giggle switches", sitting upright and unattended with only a rudimentary locking system keeping them out of "unauthorized" hands.  "Guarded armories" my ass.

That's not a machine gun. They aren't even - with extremely limited exceptions - full auto.

Using what definition of "machinegun"?  I generally operate on the whole "fires more than one round with a single pull of the trigger" definition, which doesn't cover semi-autos, but does cover guns with a "burst" and true "full auto" capabiliity.  I don't know where you are, but where I am, the guns in question most certainly ARE "machineguns" under my definition.  And yes, I've both examined the guns in question closely AND actually fired them.

I think we can all agree that they are assault weapon rifles with the things that go up, right?  And I'm sure we can all agree that the only people that should be trusted with them are trained professionals.

[media.salon.com image 750x500]

Common sense establishes that assault weapons are suitable only for mass murder, which is why they should be prohibited to all but members of law enforcement.


Sooo, your saying only LE should be able to commit mass murder.... Im assuming that the targets would be the civilians armed with nerf bats, and iphones?

Im not sure I want to live in your fantasy land anymore.
 
2013-12-05 04:40:56 PM  

R.A.Danny: Secret Master of All Flatulence: This is something that always amused/confused me.  An awful lot of the pro gun-control people generally support abortion on demand and assisted suicide.  An awful lot of the anti gun-control people oppose abortion and assisted suicide.  Does neither subset of those groups see the contradiction?

No no no, all gun owners are fat white GOPpers, and all anti gun types are Obama.


I'm in favor of gun ownership, drinking and driving, assisted or solo suicide, abortion and the death penalty.  Anything that will free up parking spaces.
Also meth on demand.
 
2013-12-05 04:42:53 PM  

morcoth: Common sense establishes that assault weapons are suitable only for mass murder, which is why they should be prohibited to all but members of law enforcement.

Sooo, your saying only LE should be able to commit mass murder.... Im assuming that the targets would be the civilians armed with nerf bats, and iphones?


Why do they even need to be armed, cops kill unarmed people all the time.
 
2013-12-05 04:44:05 PM  

Billy Bathsalt: Also meth on demand.


Only if naked children are handling the chemicals.
 
2013-12-05 04:46:20 PM  

GanjSmokr: Tell you what - once you get the dictionary companies to change their definitions to be what you think they should be, you can correct me.  Until then, you're just wrong.

Sound fair, kiddo?


Per the Geneva Accords, cops are noncombatants. That's why we can't target police headquarters: They're civilians.
 
2013-12-05 05:02:26 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.


i135.photobucket.com

Well, in that case, it's probably fairly lucky that the above pictured resident of my safe hasn't killed anybody since at least 1968.
 
2013-12-05 05:06:59 PM  

morcoth: Sooo, your saying only LE should be able to commit mass murder.... Im assuming that the targets would be the civilians armed with nerf bats, and iphones?

Im not sure I want to live in your fantasy land anymore.


Heh.  It's a bit of hyperbole in different opinions united.  Then again, an Assault Weapon with 30-round magazine is overkill...unless they're Personal Defense Weapons (as a recent DHS order called AR-15s).
 
2013-12-05 05:10:17 PM  
stevarooni:
Heh.  It's a bit of hyperbole in different opinions united.  Then again, an Assault Weapon with 30-round magazine is overkill...unless they're Personal Defense Weapons (as a recent DHS order called AR-15s).

Personally, I dislike 30 round magazines.  I prefer belts as a feeding device.  That being said:  Beltguns tend to get very heavy very quickly.  After all:  If a gun wasn't meant to have a thousand rounds of loaded ammo available to be fired with a single pull of the trigger, it wouldn't have the capability built into the design.
 
2013-12-05 05:27:15 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.

[i135.photobucket.com image 600x800]

Well, in that case, it's probably fairly lucky that the above pictured resident of my safe hasn't killed anybody since at least 1968.


2 questions:

1) Is that an MG-42 aka "Hitlers Buzzsaw"?

2) Can I come over to your house to play?
 
2013-12-05 05:44:51 PM  

CasperImproved: umad: CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?

The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.

You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to own a firearm.

Common sense dictates that the gun owner should not have had the gun "sitting around" to be played with. Once he saw they were going to play with it, he should have taken it away as though from a child and put it away.  He compounded his negligence by loading the gun and putting it back into the "play" zone. That turned it from negligent, into criminally negligent.

While the two were completely stupid to play with a gun in the first place, the gun should never had been there for them to play with.


You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to vote. The only person responsible for a person's actions is the farking person who actually performed those actions. The gun owner isn't to blame anymore than a car owner would be for having the car he left unlocked with the keys in the ignition stolen and used in a hit and run.

The hilarious part is that you have been ragging on gun owners for the entire thread about being irresponsible, yet you don't want to hold the only person who actually farking killed somebody responsible. You are a joke.
 
2013-12-05 06:06:55 PM  

umad: CasperImproved: umad: CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?

The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.

You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to own a firearm.

Common sense dictates that the gun owner should not have had the gun "sitting around" to be played with. Once he saw they were going to play with it, he should have taken it away as though from a child and put it away.  He compounded his negligence by loading the gun and putting it back into the "play" zone. That turned it from negligent, into criminally negligent.

While the two were completely stupid to play with a gun in the first place, the gun should never had been there for them to play with.

You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to vote. The only person responsible for a person's actions is the farking person who actually performed those actions. The gun owner isn't to blame anymore than a car owner would be for having the car he left unlocked with the keys in the ignition stolen and used in a hit and run.

The hilarious part is that you have been ragging on gun owners for the entire thread about being irresponsible, yet you don't want to hold the only person who actually farking killed somebody responsible. You are a joke.


Feel free to label me a "joke".... I already tagged you with an "ass that lacks common sense".
 
2013-12-05 06:26:52 PM  

CasperImproved: I already tagged you with an "ass that lacks common sense".


Really? Surely you meant "his parents are asses who lack common sense", or maybe "his school teachers were asses who lack common sense." You can't possibly be holding me accountable for my own actions. That would just be negligent.
 
2013-12-05 07:29:03 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: demaL-demaL-yeH: Secret Master of All Flatulence: a gun that has a three round burst capabiliity to be a "machinegun".

Not to be trusted with a dull spork, strand of overcooked spaghetti, ball of yarn, or firearm.

[i135.photobucket.com image 600x800]

Well, in that case, it's probably fairly lucky that the above pictured resident of my safe hasn't killed anybody since at least 1968.


You earned it: That is a locked and loaded machine gun inside a house.
 
2013-12-05 07:34:01 PM  
Skyd1v:  1) Is that an MG-42 aka "Hitlers Buzzsaw"?

Nope, it's a MG-34, which is basically a functional work of highly machined art, while the MG-42 is a piece of stamped trash.  Efficient, but still stamped trash.

During WWII, captured examples of the '34 were sent to Aberdeen Proving Grounds for evaluation, with the possible goal being to provide US troops with a weapon of similar quality.  After admiring it for a suitable period time, they basically said "No, it's way too finely made", and stuck with the old Browning design, as used in the 1919 and M2HB family, that we still use for some purposes.
 
2013-12-05 07:46:15 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: You earned it: That is a locked and loaded machine gun inside a house.


No, it isn't.  First off:  The bolt is closed.  It's an "open bolt" design.  Secondly, the ammo in the belt is Dewatted.  (It came from a batch of horrible Egyptian surplus that, at best, produced hangfires when fired and which I bought strictly for the components, and which is visibly different from every other round of 7.92 that I own.  The projectiles were pulled, the twine-tied cordite was removed, the primer compound was deactivated, and then the bullet was reseated, and the rounds were inserted into a functional belt.)  Even if the bolt were to be pulled back, the manual safety disengaged, and the trigger pulled, all that would happen is that there'd be a loud "Chunk!" sound, the bolt would slam forward, a round would be chambered, and then...well....nothing.
 
2013-12-05 07:48:18 PM  
Oh, and I've been known to keep loaded machineguns around the house...but generally without a round chambered.
 
2013-12-05 08:11:23 PM  
What ever happened to "never point a gun, whether it loaded or not, at anything you don't want a hole in."
 
2013-12-05 08:35:41 PM  

CasperImproved: umad: CasperImproved: Two friends playing with a third friend's gun (owner at fault for allowing).

After friends play with gun, they did not observe owner load same gun, then put it back on the table. (owners fault).

Two friends play with the loaded gun with assumable results (owners fault).

Were the two friends stupid? Yes.

But who was criminally negligent and ultimately responsible for this tragedy?

The idiot who pointed the gun and pulled the trigger. She broke every rule of gun safety. It is all on her.

You tragically illustrate the mindset behind those I would never allow (if I could) to own a firearm.

Common sense dictates that the gun owner should not have had the gun "sitting around" to be played with. Once he saw they were going to play with it, he should have taken it away as though from a child and put it away.  He compounded his negligence by loading the gun and putting it back into the "play" zone. That turned it from negligent, into criminally negligent.

While the two were completely stupid to play with a gun in the first place, the gun should never had been there for them to play with.


All guns are loaded.  Period.
 
2013-12-05 10:13:06 PM  
She couldn't tell by the weight of the gun it was loaded? Dumb biatch. Wouldn't surprise me if the gun owner and her were farking and this was the best way to eliminate the competition.
 
2013-12-05 11:04:24 PM  

Secret Master of All Flatulence: I've been known to keep loaded machineguns around the house.


demaL-demaL-yeH: Not to be trusted

quod.
erat.
demonfarkingstrandum.
 
2013-12-05 11:14:25 PM  
Hey, a nice subgun in .45 ACP is a pretty good tool for home defense.  If you put 30 rounds of .45 ACP into a Bad Guy(TM) in 15 seconds, odds are pretty good that he will cease to be a threat.  Here's a pic of our "His and Hers" SMGs:

i135.photobucket.com

Just to let you know:  the Mrs's gun is the one that's blued, while mine is the one that's parkerized.  Hers actually came out of a Sheriff's Department's armory, at the cost to me of a few "post sample" M4s, complete with giggle switches.  Given the number of original mags that came with hers, I think I did quite well on that deal, even though the gun and the mags had the Department's name etched into them with an electric pencil.
 
2013-12-06 10:06:32 AM  

ManateeGag: More retarded people with guns ruining to for responsible adults.


Ruining what exactly?
 
2013-12-06 12:56:12 PM  

HeadLever: topcon: Your kids would have to be pretty stupid to confuse a water gun and a real gun.

Yes and no.  For kids that grew up in houses that have real guns and where they have been taught the difference and that real guns need to be hadled only with an adult around, you are correct.

However, many folks never talk about real guns and will never teach their kids how to respect the power of one.  These are the kids really don't know the difference.


In other words, abstinence-only education for firearms in ineffective?  With how often people complain that this never works for sex ed, you'd think it would be obvious, but then again most people lack any real logical reasoning.
 
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