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(American Thinker)   Poorly-paid interns at Mother Jones are told to get food stamps, proving that welfare is a subsidy for liberal media, while poorly-paid interns elsewhere are encouraged to get a second job, proving conservatives are job creators   (americanthinker.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Mother Jones, food stamps, liberal media, subsidies, Wade Rathke, welfare, minimum wage law, Alinsky  
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860 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:53 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 02:23:10 PM  
BMFPitt
Has anyone who has ever said, "X is like slavery" ever not made themselves look stupid?

"...experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other"
Frederick Douglass
 
2013-12-05 02:25:13 PM  

Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: However, the calls for a living wage are outside of the supply and demand for labor analysis. They want to create a floor in wages because of ethical reasons. It is not a profit driven motive. Therefore, why would an organization pushing for such a floor pay employees below min wages?

Because there would BE no fight if they couldn't pay the fighters, sort of like how there'd be no military if we couldn't pay the soldiers ("volunteer" army doesn't mean "enlist without compensation"). If they overspend on payroll, they don't have as much money for things like servers and coffee and advertising, which puts them at a competitive disadvantage relative to those with ample funds to spend on ads (because they've got an all-unpaid-intern force). Other outlets who don't share MJ's views undercut MJ's ability to write articles calling for a "Living Wage (TM)" (since they don't need to raise as much revenue for payroll), which makes it less likely that such a bill ever gets proposed (much less passed), and for want of fairness for 100 (or 1,000) employees in one office, the war to gain ground on wage fairness for 165 million working-age people in all 50 states was lost.

You may find it hypocritical or whatever, but they're working within the rules to effect changes to the rules. Again, all your argumentation just sounds like "Well, if you think taxes should be higher, pay more in taxes YOURSELF, lib." Which misses the point.


And if everyone pays the higher wage somehow these revenue concerns are eliminated? So no one can pay for advertising and the whole industry sees a drop in revenue? nonsense
If you push for a living wage and refuse to pay one yourself because it's bad for business, fark you in the ear.

It is nothing at all like voluntarily paying more in taxes. One dude paying more in taxes isn't gonna do shiat. One company increasing the wages of their employees will. If everyone can afford to pay their employees more then you should have no problem doing so and attracting better candidates in the process.
 
2013-12-05 02:30:10 PM  

DeaH: skullkrusher: Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Sure, if you want to lose the prisoners' game of wages before the other person (a competitor) makes a move. That's like asking "If you want the tax rate to rise, why don't YOU pay more in taxes?" The point isn't that I want to pay more, it's that the system we have is insufficient to provide the things we want out of it (i.e. allowing businesses to pay people $7/hour is insufficient if we also want to limit government spending on TANF/SNAP/etc; taxing the top bracket at 39.6% is insufficient if we want something close to budget solvency anytime this century), so the system must be changed.

Social or legislative advocacy (or, you know, even just a 9-5) also won't mean a hill of beans if you can't afford to pay your people.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit t ...

As far as getting better interns, Mother Jones is at a competitive advantage. Most publishing interns make nothing. I do think their interns should make at least minimum wage. The increase in the stipend to $1500/month takes it up to that, and it should have been that across the board for all internships. But let's not pretend that the majority of publishing internships pay even a dime.


The point is not what they pay relative to others in the industry. The point is that they advocate that EVERYONE make a good bit more than they themselves pay their interns. I don't find "hey, we may pay them shiat but it is better then nothing" terribly compelling in arguing against the obvious hypocrisy.
 
2013-12-05 02:32:43 PM  

RanDomino: BMFPitt
Has anyone who has ever said, "X is like slavery" ever not made themselves look stupid?

"...experience demonstrates that there may be a slavery of wages only a little less galling and crushing in its effects than chattel slavery, and that this slavery of wages must go down with the other"
Frederick Douglass


If you ignore the beatings, rape, forced separation from family and getting murdered for learning to read, sure. Hardly a difference.
 
2013-12-05 02:37:41 PM  
My niece just paid $7k for an internship.
 
2013-12-05 03:19:08 PM  
The best internships I ever had were unpaid. Best in that they showed me how awful the jobs would have been had I had them, and how much I didn't want those jobs (although I thought I did at the time), and since they were internships through school, I got to walk out no-harm-no-foul at the end of the semester and not even put them on my resume if I didn't want to. Since they were unpaid, they don't appear anywhere, not even on my tax returns or my school transcripts.

Unless I choose to mention them, the wretched experiences I had at these locations never happened; so yes, there IS a good reason for unpaid internships.
 
2013-12-05 03:58:22 PM  
So Vice.com does an article calling out the hypocrisy in liberal media for these unpaid internships and the hacks at American Stinker use it in their little right vs left culture war, completely missing the point?

How much does Stinker pay Drew to get endless greenlights?
 
2013-12-05 04:56:22 PM  

skullkrusher: DeaH: skullkrusher: Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Sure, if you want to lose the prisoners' game of wages before the other person (a competitor) makes a move. That's like asking "If you want the tax rate to rise, why don't YOU pay more in taxes?" The point isn't that I want to pay more, it's that the system we have is insufficient to provide the things we want out of it (i.e. allowing businesses to pay people $7/hour is insufficient if we also want to limit government spending on TANF/SNAP/etc; taxing the top bracket at 39.6% is insufficient if we want something close to budget solvency anytime this century), so the system must be changed.

Social or legislative advocacy (or, you know, even just a 9-5) also won't mean a hill of beans if you can't afford to pay your people.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't prov ...


I am not arguing whether the interns should be paid more. They should. I am merely pointing out that, if there is no competitive advantage to paying their interns more than the industry standard, Mother Jones is still willingly doing that. An internship should never require a trust fund to keep a roof over one's head..The increase in stipend takes the stipend up to the California minimum wage, which is higher than the rest of the country, but that still doesn't mean it's enough to live in San Francisco. The intern would have to live in Oakland or some adjacent community. Do I think the pay should be better? Certainly. Do I think the stipend is livable? If the person does not have dependents and does not own property, yes.
 
2013-12-05 04:58:26 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The best internships I ever had were unpaid. Best in that they showed me how awful the jobs would have been had I had them, and how much I didn't want those jobs (although I thought I did at the time), and since they were internships through school, I got to walk out no-harm-no-foul at the end of the semester and not even put them on my resume if I didn't want to. Since they were unpaid, they don't appear anywhere, not even on my tax returns or my school transcripts.

Unless I choose to mention them, the wretched experiences I had at these locations never happened; so yes, there IS a good reason for unpaid internships.


Even if you were paid, why would you have to mention them?
 
2013-12-05 08:08:02 PM  
skullkrusher
If you ignore the beatings, rape, forced separation from family and getting murdered for learning to read, sure. Hardly a difference.

Frederick Douglass
 
2013-12-05 09:13:43 PM  

RanDomino: skullkrusher
If you ignore the beatings, rape, forced separation from family and getting murdered for learning to read, sure. Hardly a difference.

Frederick Douglass


So? I bet other ex slaves gave him tons of shiat for that stupid ass quote.
 
2013-12-05 09:35:34 PM  
skullkrusher
So? I bet other ex slaves gave him tons of shiat for that stupid ass quote.

Another magical adventure inside skully's head.
 
2013-12-05 09:50:44 PM  

RanDomino: skullkrusher
So? I bet other ex slaves gave him tons of shiat for that stupid ass quote.

Another magical adventure inside skully's head.


Famous historical figures said stupid stuff sometimes. Saying having a low paying, dead end job is barely better then being an actual slave is colossally stupid, even if you were a former slave. Sometimes hyperbole is too stupid to work. This is one of those times.
 
2013-12-05 10:50:57 PM  

DeaH: Gyrfalcon: The best internships I ever had were unpaid. Best in that they showed me how awful the jobs would have been had I had them, and how much I didn't want those jobs (although I thought I did at the time), and since they were internships through school, I got to walk out no-harm-no-foul at the end of the semester and not even put them on my resume if I didn't want to. Since they were unpaid, they don't appear anywhere, not even on my tax returns or my school transcripts.

Unless I choose to mention them, the wretched experiences I had at these locations never happened; so yes, there IS a good reason for unpaid internships.

Even if you were paid, why would you have to mention them?


Long roundabout answer: For purposes of things like background checks, a job which you were paid for, and thus which had taxes paid on it, will appear on your tax returns, if nothing else. If for some reason you need plausible deniability for such a job, you'll never have it--if you were paid. But unpaid positions are as ephemeral as air. So if you had an internship where you really f*cked up, you can pretend it never happened (like a volunteer job), but at the same time, internships are not considered as casual or non-work related as volunteering.
 
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