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(American Thinker)   Poorly-paid interns at Mother Jones are told to get food stamps, proving that welfare is a subsidy for liberal media, while poorly-paid interns elsewhere are encouraged to get a second job, proving conservatives are job creators   (americanthinker.com) divider line 114
    More: Obvious, Mother Jones, food stamps, liberal media, subsidies, Wade Rathke, welfare, minimum wage law, Alinsky  
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841 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:53 AM (40 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 10:53:03 AM

The Lone Gunman: Where are interns well paid?

I mean...ANYwhere?


The firm I work for does an internship program with a couple of community colleges in Northeast Ohio and the interns that are brought in from the accounting department do actual tax and accounting work, and are paid commensurately. I personally know of two of the interns that were paid just below what I make in salary, but they were not included on the commission scale. One used the semester that he interned to lobby for a full time job, got it, then turned around a year and a half later and used that additional experience to land a full time job paying salary plus commission. The other used her internship to lobby for a full time job in our payroll department and now works full time on salary. (PR doesn't get commission.)
 
2013-12-05 10:58:03 AM

NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.


They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:13 AM

jayhawk88: I love that "hippie" can still - unironically - be used as a derogatory term by some people.


At this rate, conservatives will still be using "hipster" to refer to anyone they don't like in 2063. "Damn hipster President cruising around in his hover car."
 
2013-12-05 11:02:34 AM

HMS_Blinkin: Mikey1969: A: Internships suck. THey should be illegal, especially the ones where all that you do is turn into a gofer. I've also seen internships that don't allow you to have a second job. It's a bullshiat practice and needs to go away.

Meh, not always.  I interned at a major company this summer, and I liked it.  I was paid very well, did real work, AND walked away with a full-time offer at the end for when I finish school.  Not a bad deal overall.

That said, I know there's plenty of employers where internships are borderline abusive/slavery.  There's a real value to GOOD internships, though, so I would say that they need to be much more tightly regulated rather than done away with entirely.


Ask any doctor what their internship/residency was like if you want horror stories...
 
2013-12-05 11:09:48 AM

neversubmit: And conservatives have Google on their side.

Google Funding a Slew of Right-Wing Groups

American Conservative Union
Americans for Tax Reform
CATO Institute
Federalist Society
George Mason University Law School Law and Economics Center
Heritage Action
Mercatus Center
National Taxpayers Union
R Street Institute
Texas Public Policy Foundation


That's it. I'm using Bing from now on
 
2013-12-05 11:12:14 AM

DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.


Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?
 
2013-12-05 11:16:17 AM

DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.


As someone who worked media internships back in the day that's a hell of a lot better than what I got.
 
2013-12-05 11:25:24 AM

skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?


Sure, if you want to lose the prisoners' game of wages before the other person (a competitor) makes a move. That's like asking "If you want the tax rate to rise, why don't YOU pay more in taxes?" The point isn't that I want to pay more, it's that the system we have is insufficient to provide the things we want out of it (i.e. allowing businesses to pay people $7/hour is insufficient if we also want to limit government spending on TANF/SNAP/etc; taxing the top bracket at 39.6% is insufficient if we want something close to budget solvency anytime this century), so the system must be changed.

Social or legislative advocacy (or, you know, even just a 9-5) also won't mean a hill of beans if you can't afford to pay your people.
 
2013-12-05 11:37:57 AM

Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Sure, if you want to lose the prisoners' game of wages before the other person (a competitor) makes a move. That's like asking "If you want the tax rate to rise, why don't YOU pay more in taxes?" The point isn't that I want to pay more, it's that the system we have is insufficient to provide the things we want out of it (i.e. allowing businesses to pay people $7/hour is insufficient if we also want to limit government spending on TANF/SNAP/etc; taxing the top bracket at 39.6% is insufficient if we want something close to budget solvency anytime this century), so the system must be changed.

Social or legislative advocacy (or, you know, even just a 9-5) also won't mean a hill of beans if you can't afford to pay your people.


Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit to the employer to warrant higher wages so the employer sells the position as a learning experience to entice candidates?
 
2013-12-05 11:44:38 AM

skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?


Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.
 
2013-12-05 11:46:19 AM

DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.


That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.
 
2013-12-05 11:46:55 AM
If an intern is contributing to the core function of the company and not just receiving an education it is illegal not to pay them.
 
2013-12-05 11:53:00 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

 
2013-12-05 11:53:28 AM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.


Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.
 
2013-12-05 11:55:19 AM
I still like my idea.  If you are paying an able-bodied adult responsible for his/her own care/feeding a wage that qualifies them for public assistance, you the employer shall be fined an amount equal to the assistance for which that individual qualifies for.  After all, the public sector shouldn't be subsidizing your 'bootstrappy' enterprises right?  If they can't stand on their own, then they should be drowned by the 'free market'.
 
2013-12-05 11:59:50 AM

Fart_Machine: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.


And far be it from one of the vanguards of the living wage push to change that!
 
2013-12-05 12:01:33 PM

DeaH: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.


So you agree that they should be paid a living wage, then bring up how MJ will raise the stipend, even though it still doesn't come close a living wage in SF. So...... good job, good effort, I guess.

Fart_Machine: Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.


Chronicle staff writers are paid between $59-65k a year.
Examiner writers are paid on scale based on their pageviews and number of articles. Many of them telecommute from outside of SF.
Can't find any info for Bay Guardian, but that's considered an "alternative" paper and not among the majors.

The one major, the Chronicle, pays their staff writers a decent wage. You can get by living in SF on $59-64k a year. I know, I've done it, with a family and a single income. You just can't live in Russian River or SOMA.
 
2013-12-05 12:08:28 PM

skullkrusher: Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit to the employer to warrant higher wages so the employer sells the position as a learning experience to entice candidates?


I'll try to answer these in order. This may get long.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying the usually-recommended living wage ($12-15/hr, according to most) to their people, especially if the rest of the industry currently pays less than that. (Your OP asked about "Living Wage (TM)", not minimum.)

They absolutely could pay more without being forced, they'd just, as I said, lose the race to the bottom of the wage floor.

As far as I know, there's nothing specific about "Living Wage (TM)" proposals that ban flat-fee contracts or internships (even unpaid ones, though I suspect there would probably be language to define and limit unpaid internships) or other work arrangements that are currently not subject to minwage laws (farm workers and others).

If you assume that a kid fresh out of college can't contribute, congratulations, you're an idiot. I worked at a psych hospital - worked with patients - as a student for $9/hour after a two-week paid orientation; you're telling me a business can't spare 1/4 of $25-30k (a 90-day "trial period", which works out to $6-7k in pretax salary. For 3 months. I'm assuming big city, otherwise that probably drops to $20-25k per year/$5-6k for those 3 months - in either case, enough to get by paycheck to paycheck)?

Put another way, I've worked in places where new hires at the executive level were washouts, and plenty of places where management doesn't see (or doesn't care to see) where value is being lost on mid- or high-level people who do nothing (or where replacement value is far below their current salary). Saying that new grads "aren't worth it until we train them" sort of puts the lie to the "we need grads" part of the job description, no? You don't need grads, you need desperate people "enticed" by the prospect of getting ANY job.

Younger people are more tech savvy, have fewer bad work habits (because they have NO work habits yet), are cheaper, are more flexible (fewer spouses/kids in the mix) and are more eager. The fallacy that the kids don't know nothing is as old as it is incorrect. Young people are about as retarded as any other group.

You'd pay a barista to make/get your coffee and a file clerk to handle your papers, yet somehow when you combine them into a single job and claim they're getting "industry experience" (of the type they apparently couldn't get working at a coffeeshop or file desk) you get to pay them less? We call that "having your cake and eating it too" - you get an infinite ROI on any work they do perform, and don't lose anything if they fark around all day.

// I can't pay my rent with "industry experience", Jack
 
2013-12-05 12:10:03 PM
No no, I had some potatoes for breakfast, I'm good.
 
2013-12-05 12:11:17 PM

DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.


That's about $5.77 an hour.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:32 PM

skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.

And far be it from one of the vanguards of the living wage push to change that!


I wasn't under the impression that living wage meant you wouldn't have to commute. Most journalists and other salary employees still earn enough to live comfortably outside the city. But you knew that already and are just trolling.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:09 PM
 
2013-12-05 12:16:51 PM
The media in general are slavedrivers. And besides, it's not like people who would inter for MJ don't already have a cultish devotion to their partisan stance anyway.
 
2013-12-05 12:19:57 PM

Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit to the employer to warrant higher wages so the employer sells the position as a learning experience to entice candidates?

I'll try to answer these in order. This may get long.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying the usually-recommended living wage ($12-15/hr, according to most) to their people, especially if the rest of the industry currently pays less than that. (Your OP asked about "Living Wage (TM)", not minimum.)

They absolutely could pay more without being forced, they'd just, as I said, lose the race to the bottom of the wage floor.

As far as I know, there's nothing specific about "Living Wage (TM)" proposals that ban flat-fee contracts or internships (even unpaid ones, though I suspect there would probably be language to define and limit unpaid internships) or other work arrangements that are currently not subject to minwage laws (farm workers and others).

If you assume that a kid fresh out of college can't contribute, congratulations, you're an idiot. I worked at a psych hospital - worked with patients - as a student for $9/hour after a two-week paid orientation; you're telling me a business can't spare 1/4 of $25-30k (a 90-day "trial period", which works out to $6-7k in pretax salary. For 3 months. I'm assuming big city, otherwise that probably drops to $20-25k per year/$5-6k for those 3 months - in either case, enough to get by paycheck to paycheck)?

Put another way, I've worked in places where new hires at the executive level were washouts, and plenty of places where management doesn't see (or doesn't care to see) where value is being lost on mid- or high-level people who do nothing (or where replacement value is far below their current salary). Saying that new grads "aren't worth it until we train them" sort of puts the lie to the "we need grads" part of the job description, no? You don't need grads, you need desperate people "enticed" by the prospect of getting ANY job.

Younger people are more tech savvy, have fewer bad work habits (because they have NO work habits yet), are cheaper, are more flexible (fewer spouses/kids in the mix) and are more eager. The fallacy that the kids don't know nothing is as old as it is incorrect. Young people are about as retarded as any other group.

You'd pay a barista to make/get your coffee and a file clerk to handle your papers, yet somehow when you combine them into a single job and claim they're getting "industry experience" (of the type they apparently couldn't get working at a coffeeshop or file desk) you get to pay them less? We call that "having your cake and eating it too" - you get an infinite ROI on any work they do perform, and don't lose anything if they fark around all day.

// I can't pay my rent with "industry experience", Jack


You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage. I have no idea why MJF pays their interns so poorly but presumably it's the same reason most everyone does it. Because they can.
 
2013-12-05 12:20:06 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

So you agree that they should be paid a living wage, then bring up how MJ will raise the stipend, even though it still doesn't come close a living wage in SF. So...... good job, good effort, I guess.

Fart_Machine: Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.

Chronicle staff writers are paid between $59-65k a year.
Examiner writers are paid on scale based on their pageviews and number of articles. Many of them telecommute from outside of SF.
Can't find any info for Bay Guardian, but that's considered an "alternative" paper and not among the majors.

The one major, the Chronicle, pays their staff writers a decent wage. You can get by living in SF on $59-64k a year. I know, I've done it, with a family and a single income. You just can't live in Russian River or SOMA.


They're making above and beyond what the average journalist salary is in California then (which is around 49k). I'm going to guess MJ is about in that level. Even the big league publications aren't going to pay their interns that much.
 
2013-12-05 12:21:06 PM

Fart_Machine: skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.

And far be it from one of the vanguards of the living wage push to change that!

I wasn't under the impression that living wage meant you wouldn't have to commute. Most journalists and other salary employees still earn enough to live comfortably outside the city. But you knew that already and are just trolling.


Commute from where in the Bay Area on $1000 a month? It's not trolling just because you don't get it
 
2013-12-05 12:24:50 PM

skullkrusher: Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit to the employer to warrant higher wages so the employer sells the position as a learning experience to entice candidates?

I'll try to answer these in order. This may get long.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying the usually-recommended living wage ($12-15/hr, according to most) to their people, especially if the rest of the industry currently pays less than that. (Your OP asked about "Living Wage (TM)", not minimum.)

They absolutely could pay more without being forced, they'd just, as I said, lose the race to the bottom of the wage floor.

As far as I know, there's nothing specific about "Living Wage (TM)" proposals that ban flat-fee contracts or internships (even unpaid ones, though I suspect there would probably be language to define and limit unpaid internships) or other work arrangements that are currently not subject to minwage laws (farm workers and others).

If you assume that a kid fresh out of college can't contribute, congratulations, you're an idiot. I worked at a psych hospital - worked with patients - as a student for $9/hour after a two-week paid orientation; you're telling me a business can't spare 1/4 of $25-30k (a 90-day "trial period", which works out to $6-7k in pretax salary. For 3 months. I'm assuming big city, otherwise that probably drops to $20-25k per year/$5-6k for those 3 months - in either case, enough to get by paycheck to paycheck)?

Put another way, I've worked in places where new hires at the executive level were washouts, and plenty of places where management doesn't see (or doesn't care to see) where value is being lost on mid- or high-level people who do nothing (or where replacement value is far below their current salary). Saying that new grads "aren't worth it until we train them" sort of puts the lie to the "we need grads" part of the job description, no? You don't need grads, you need desperate people "enticed" by the prospect of getting ANY job.

Younger people are more tech savvy, have fewer bad work habits (because they have NO work habits yet), are cheaper, are more flexible (fewer spouses/kids in the mix) and are more eager. The fallacy that the kids don't know nothing is as old as it is incorrect. Young people are about as retarded as any other group.

You'd pay a barista to make/get your coffee and a file clerk to handle your papers, yet somehow when you combine them into a single job and claim they're getting "industry experience" (of the type they apparently couldn't get working at a coffeeshop or file desk) you get to pay them less? We call that "having your cake and eating it too" - you get an infinite ROI on any work they do perform, and don't lose anything if they fark around all day.

// I can't pay my rent with "industry experience", Jack

You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage. I have no idea why MJF pays their interns so poorly but presumably it's the same reason most everyone does it. Because they can.


If we're going by the industry they really aren't since most media internships are unpaid.
 
2013-12-05 12:28:03 PM

skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.

Uh most journalists don't make enough to actually live in San Francisco.

And far be it from one of the vanguards of the living wage push to change that!

I wasn't under the impression that living wage meant you wouldn't have to commute. Most journalists and other salary employees still earn enough to live comfortably outside the city. But you knew that already and are just trolling.

Commute from where in the Bay Area on $1000 a month? It's not trolling just because you don't get it


I was talking about journalists not interns. Did you note that word before you made your comment? They don't make 1000k a month but they also don't usually make enough to live comfortably in the city.
 
2013-12-05 12:29:18 PM

skullkrusher: You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage. I have no idea why MJF pays their interns so poorly but presumably it's the same reason most everyone does it. Because they can.


Um, I'm no economics major, but please to explain? A higher payroll for the same amount of revenue won't depress earnings, thus putting the company who pays this higher wage at a competitive disadvantage relative to a company with the same revenue and a smaller payroll?

Company A:
-payroll = $1m
-revenue* = $2m

Company B:
-payroll = $700k
-revenue = $2m

If they were to bid on the same employee or service provider, Company B has $1.3 mil to negotiate with, whereas Company A only has $1 mil. They are in a disadvantageous competitive situation relative to Company B.

If Company A started as Company B (i.e. increased payroll 30% without raising additional cash) - besides being a bad idea without prospects for growth (ideally, a signed contract that will raise more revenue), which is beside the point - they would be in a competitively disadventageous situation relative to the status quo ante.

// unless...does "competitive disadvantage" hold some other special meaning I'm not privy to as a geek?

* that's not the right term, probably. "Total funds available"? "War chest including CoH, credit lines, projected revenue over the period in question and dividends, minus total projected liabilities over the same period"?
 
2013-12-05 12:31:48 PM

sprgrss: By and large, internships are nothing more than modern day slavery.  No person, who is not currently in school, should be working for free as an "intern" and those companies that hire them, with the consideration for their work being experience, are engaging in illegal employment practices.

the whole internship system needs to be blown up.


Has anyone who has ever said, "X is like slavery" ever not made themselves look stupid?
 
2013-12-05 12:34:18 PM

sweetmelissa31: jayhawk88: I love that "hippie" can still - unironically - be used as a derogatory term by some people.

At this rate, conservatives will still be using "hipster" to refer to anyone they don't like in 2063. "Damn hipster President cruising around in his hover car."


"Look at that cyber-biatch eating virtual crackers like she owns the place"
 
2013-12-05 12:35:34 PM

BMFPitt: sprgrss: By and large, internships are nothing more than modern day slavery.  No person, who is not currently in school, should be working for free as an "intern" and those companies that hire them, with the consideration for their work being experience, are engaging in illegal employment practices.

the whole internship system needs to be blown up.

Has anyone who has ever said, "X is like slavery" ever not made themselves look stupid?


When X really does share a lot of common characteristics to indentured servitude, you can say it and not look stupid. That said, there are very few things in my mind that really are that close to slavery outside of slavery itself.
 
2013-12-05 12:39:19 PM

Serious Black: BMFPitt: sprgrss: By and large, internships are nothing more than modern day slavery.  No person, who is not currently in school, should be working for free as an "intern" and those companies that hire them, with the consideration for their work being experience, are engaging in illegal employment practices.

the whole internship system needs to be blown up.

Has anyone who has ever said, "X is like slavery" ever not made themselves look stupid?

When X really does share a lot of common characteristics to indentured servitude, you can say it and not look stupid. That said, there are very few things in my mind that really are that close to slavery outside of slavery itself.


Yeah, just without the indentured part. Kind of like how having consensual sec is just like rape except for the consent part.
 
2013-12-05 12:43:59 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: So you agree that they should be paid a living wage, then bring up how MJ will raise the stipend, even though it still doesn't come close a living wage in SF. So...... good job, good effort, I guess.


I think they should be paid a living wage. What Mother Jones is paying them is not great, but it is far better than other publishing interns. I am not sure why this is a hard concept for you to understand, since I have said this more than one. So, to repeat a fourth time, they should be paid a living wage. What Mother Jones is paying them is not great, but it is far better than other publishing interns.

Perhaps you're the sort that needs an example:

Here is the rent for an apartment in Oakland, the town next to San Francisco. Usually, one can find better deals by not shopping for rents online, but let's assume our intern is from another state. So, let's say he moves into the most expensive four-bedroom apartment in the building and shares it with three other people. Everyone gets his own room, which is a lot better than living in most dorms. His share would be $328 a month. Let's assume utilities are not included. The amenities do include high speed internet, and the more expensive units (which our unit is) are furnished. So, figure his share of electric and gas would be about $200 a month. If he has a car (gift from the 'rents for high school gradution?), figure another $400 for gas and insurance. If he does not have a car, he will have to take public transport . A BART Fast Pass is $70 per month. If this is a six-month internship, we probably do not have to factor in wardrobe, so zero for that.

The with-car-intern would have just 72 dollars left for food and entertainment at the $1000/stipend. After taxes, it would be nothing. Yes, he would need to have more roommates, and he might want to re-think the car. He would have $572 left at the raised amount (less after taxes). It's not a ton, but it will buy food and some beer.

The no-car-intern would have have $598 left under the $1000/month stipend. He would have $1598 under the new stipend. This is not lavish living, and a chunk of his time would be spent on public transportation, but he can live comfortable, but not lavishly. He can't live in San Francisco, but he can live the next town over.

Now, let's look at a standard internship for publications. Most are in New York City. Most pay nothing. True, the cost of living is significantly cheaper in New Jersey, and public transportation is available, but none of those things are free. Only a person with parents willing (and able) to foot the bill can afford these internships.

Do you see the difference? What Mother Jones is paying them is not great, but it is far better than other publishing interns.

Now, to use the specious comparison of the article, comparing an intern with a Walmart minimum wage worker, things begin to breakdown quickly. The average fast food or Walmart employee is in his late 20s. He is not a college student. He often comes from lower income families. His roommates are likely to be one or more of his children. They will not be contributing to the rent. Our interns are unlikely to be supporting children, and they will not need to worry about childcare the way the Walmart worker does. You see, interns (by any name) tend to be just starting out. They deserve to be paid. And the wage should be livable for the location (if there is no public transportation, that means in the city; if there is public transportation, there's wiggle room). People working fast food and retail tend to not be just starting. Many of them have children. Comparing those jobs to internships is ridiculous.

So, now that this is all spelled out for you, perhaps you will understand that what Mother Jones is paying them is not great, but it is far better than other publishing interns. And neither can be meaningfully compared to retail or fast food.
 
2013-12-05 12:47:58 PM

Cletus C.: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

That's about $5.77 an hour.


Mother Jones is raising it to $1500. See the math in this post to see how it works out at the $1000/month and $1500/month stipend. It's not great. The person taking the job would have to make sacrifices, but it is doable as long is not supporting a family or going to be in the job long-term.
 
2013-12-05 12:53:37 PM

Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage. I have no idea why MJF pays their interns so poorly but presumably it's the same reason most everyone does it. Because they can.

Um, I'm no economics major, but please to explain? A higher payroll for the same amount of revenue won't depress earnings, thus putting the company who pays this higher wage at a competitive disadvantage relative to a company with the same revenue and a smaller payroll?

Company A:
-payroll = $1m
-revenue* = $2m

Company B:
-payroll = $700k
-revenue = $2m

If they were to bid on the same employee or service provider, Company B has $1.3 mil to negotiate with, whereas Company A only has $1 mil. They are in a disadvantageous competitive situation relative to Company B.

If Company A started as Company B (i.e. increased payroll 30% without raising additional cash) - besides being a bad idea without prospects for growth (ideally, a signed contract that will raise more revenue), which is beside the point - they would be in a competitively disadventageous situation relative to the status quo ante.

// unless...does "competitive disadvantage" hold some other special meaning I'm not privy to as a geek?

* that's not the right term, probably. "Total funds available"? "War chest including CoH, credit lines, projected revenue over the period in question and dividends, minus total projected liabilities over the same period"?


Paying above market wages is like cutting prices for your product. It's part of competition. You are not at a disadvantage trying to undercut (or "overcut") in this case. Paying $50k a year, for example, would allow you to attract experienced people with a more highly developed skillset than paying $12k a year. If this increased productivity helps you and it makes sense, you do it. However, the calls for a living wage are outside of the supply and demand for labor analysis. They want to create a floor in wages because of ethical reasons. It is not a profit driven motive. Therefore, why would an organization pushing for such a floor pay employees below min wages?

Great example are my beloved Mets. They are broke as a joke and are trying to sign quality talent at a discount. Their desire to undercut the market is putting them at a competitive disadvantage in the market for labor. The Yankees who have apparently forgotten their desire to go below $189M in payroll have the money to pay above market to make sure they get what they want. They have a competitive advantage.
 
2013-12-05 12:54:38 PM
Theoretically speaking, how many miles per hippy does Mother Jones get?

/Alternative fuel, indeed.
 
2013-12-05 12:56:23 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Yes, If you scroll down to the very end of the article, you'll see that Mother Jones plans to up the pay by 50%. I am not suggesting this is great, just far better than most publications.

That 50% increase will bring the wage to just above CA minimum wage. That's not a "Living Wage" in San Francisco, where Mother Jones is based.


That would be best, but it is livable in Oakland. I did the math in this post. It's doable. I wouldn't want to do it for years on end, but I would have been able to do that for six months. And, if the what they are saying about the internship is true, I would be building a portfolio, and I would have real field experience. I could not have done it if I owned a home or had children. I could never, under any circumstances, have take the standard publishing internship - the terms of which are generally, "Get me coffee and laundry as a favor. I will pay you nothing, but I will write you a letter of recommendation." My dad died at the start of my sophomore year, and my mom was disabled from a car accident. If I wasn't getting paid, I couldn't do it.
 
2013-12-05 01:00:41 PM

DeaH: A BART Fast Pass is $70 per month.


There's a small flaw with your math. You can't live in Oakland and use a monthly Fast Pass on BART. Those only work for in SF travel. The intern would have to use high value passes and the trip from Coliseum (your rental) to Montgomery (closest BART to MoJo) is $3.85 a day. So we're talking about at least $77 a month, not counting any travel they would have to do outside of the regular commute, such as tracking down stories within The City.

DeaH: The no-car-intern would have have $598 left under the $1000/month stipend. He would have $1598 under the new stipend.


Here's another math issue. The current stipend is $1000/month. The new stipend will be $1500 a month. You have given him an extra $1000 a month under the new stipend. He would have ~$1100 left, not $1598.
 
2013-12-05 01:01:14 PM

A Cave Geek: I still like my idea.  If you are paying an able-bodied adult responsible for his/her own care/feeding a wage that qualifies them for public assistance, you the employer shall be fined an amount equal to the assistance for which that individual qualifies for.  After all, the public sector shouldn't be subsidizing your 'bootstrappy' enterprises right?  If they can't stand on their own, then they should be drowned by the 'free market'.


Personally I say we get rid of all personal taxes, medicare, social security...and...wait for it...give every adult over 18, that isn't incarcerated a yearly stipend of 11k (federal poverty level). With that 11k you should also given the option, if you choose not to buy healthcare with the free 11k, your stuck with the bill. You can get a job and make more money or you can sit around playing bongo's naked all day and no one can complain your not being fed.
 
2013-12-05 01:03:21 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: A BART Fast Pass is $70 per month.

There's a small flaw with your math. You can't live in Oakland and use a monthly Fast Pass on BART. Those only work for in SF travel. The intern would have to use high value passes and the trip from Coliseum (your rental) to Montgomery (closest BART to MoJo) is $3.85 a day. So we're talking about at least $77 a month, not counting any travel they would have to do outside of the regular commute, such as tracking down stories within The City.

DeaH: The no-car-intern would have have $598 left under the $1000/month stipend. He would have $1598 under the new stipend.

Here's another math issue. The current stipend is $1000/month. The new stipend will be $1500 a month. You have given him an extra $1000 a month under the new stipend. He would have ~$1100 left, not $1598.


You are right. I didn't add the differential. Still, $1100 is still enough to eat well and have a bit of fun.
 
2013-12-05 01:10:18 PM

DeaH: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: A BART Fast Pass is $70 per month.

There's a small flaw with your math. You can't live in Oakland and use a monthly Fast Pass on BART. Those only work for in SF travel. The intern would have to use high value passes and the trip from Coliseum (your rental) to Montgomery (closest BART to MoJo) is $3.85 a day. So we're talking about at least $77 a month, not counting any travel they would have to do outside of the regular commute, such as tracking down stories within The City.

DeaH: The no-car-intern would have have $598 left under the $1000/month stipend. He would have $1598 under the new stipend.

Here's another math issue. The current stipend is $1000/month. The new stipend will be $1500 a month. You have given him an extra $1000 a month under the new stipend. He would have ~$1100 left, not $1598.

You are right. I didn't add the differential. Still, $1100 is still enough to eat well and have a bit of fun.


And that's fine. But you did state that the car having intern would not be able to eat. You did sort of include taxes, but you didn't provide any calculation on those. Let's assume a round number of ~12% based on Fed and CA taxes out of pocket.

That's $120 and probably wouldn't include SDI. You also didn't include health insurance, which is a required cost now.

There are a lot of variables that go into that equation, and you failed to account for a couple. I'm not saying it can't be done, but let's not pretend that $1000/month working in SF and living in Oakland isn't squeaking by.

Hell, I had to live in Antioch and commute to SF and I made almost $60k a year when I lived there. I simply couldn't afford to live any closer once my family reached its current size. I did it for a while when we only had the one child, but we needed to upgrade our living space and didn't want to live next to the Coliseum. (no offense)
 
2013-12-05 01:10:54 PM

skullkrusher: However, the calls for a living wage are outside of the supply and demand for labor analysis. They want to create a floor in wages because of ethical reasons. It is not a profit driven motive. Therefore, why would an organization pushing for such a floor pay employees below min wages?


Because there would BE no fight if they couldn't pay the fighters, sort of like how there'd be no military if we couldn't pay the soldiers ("volunteer" army doesn't mean "enlist without compensation"). If they overspend on payroll, they don't have as much money for things like servers and coffee and advertising, which puts them at a competitive disadvantage relative to those with ample funds to spend on ads (because they've got an all-unpaid-intern force). Other outlets who don't share MJ's views undercut MJ's ability to write articles calling for a "Living Wage (TM)" (since they don't need to raise as much revenue for payroll), which makes it less likely that such a bill ever gets proposed (much less passed), and for want of fairness for 100 (or 1,000) employees in one office, the war to gain ground on wage fairness for 165 million working-age people in all 50 states was lost.

You may find it hypocritical or whatever, but they're working within the rules to effect changes to the rules. Again, all your argumentation just sounds like "Well, if you think taxes should be higher, pay more in taxes YOURSELF, lib." Which misses the point.
 
2013-12-05 01:18:55 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: The_Six_Fingered_Man: DeaH: A BART Fast Pass is $70 per month.

There's a small flaw with your math. You can't live in Oakland and use a monthly Fast Pass on BART. Those only work for in SF travel. The intern would have to use high value passes and the trip from Coliseum (your rental) to Montgomery (closest BART to MoJo) is $3.85 a day. So we're talking about at least $77 a month, not counting any travel they would have to do outside of the regular commute, such as tracking down stories within The City.

DeaH: The no-car-intern would have have $598 left under the $1000/month stipend. He would have $1598 under the new stipend.

Here's another math issue. The current stipend is $1000/month. The new stipend will be $1500 a month. You have given him an extra $1000 a month under the new stipend. He would have ~$1100 left, not $1598.

You are right. I didn't add the differential. Still, $1100 is still enough to eat well and have a bit of fun.

And that's fine. But you did state that the car having intern would not be able to eat. You did sort of include taxes, but you didn't provide any calculation on those. Let's assume a round number of ~12% based on Fed and CA taxes out of pocket.

That's $120 and probably wouldn't include SDI. You also didn't include health insurance, which is a required cost now.

There are a lot of variables that go into that equation, and you failed to account for a couple. I'm not saying it can't be done, but let's not pretend that $1000/month working in SF and living in Oakland isn't squeaking by.

Hell, I had to live in Antioch and commute to SF and I made almost $60k a year when I lived there. I simply couldn't afford to live any closer once my family reached its current size. I did it for a while when we only had the one child, but we needed to upgrade our living space and didn't want to live next to the Coliseum. (no offense)


Yes, I could not do it at this point in my life. I could not do it in my late 20s. I could have done it at 21 or 22 (I didn't have a car), and I would have shared a bedroom, just like in the dorm. And Mother Jones really did need to raise that another $500, which they did. It isn't great, but it's something I could have done, unlike other publishing internships. I am in no way pretending this is a good living. It's not. What it is is something that is doable for most students. Most internships in publishing can only go to kids with trust funds or well-to-do parents. Mother Jones is way above industry standards for their industry, and they can get better interns than most publishers. Is that great? No. But it is absurd to pretend this is the same as Walmart paying working mothers and fathers a crap wage. It's not.
 
2013-12-05 01:23:42 PM

skullkrusher: Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: DeaH: NutWrench: The hippy-fueled magazine

stoppedreadingrightthere.jpg

Also, someone doesn't know what "internship" means.

They pay their interns $1000/month and call the positions "fellows," sort of like an academic fellowship. That is a lot better pay than most internships, and they guarantee the position is doing real research and journalism - no coffee-getting and laundy pick-ups. True, $1000/month is not enough to live in San Francisco (it would need to be roughly double), but it's better by far than most internship pay which is usually just pay "experience and connections."

Here's the original article the information came from. Search for the "Be Our Hero" subhead to find the section on Mother Jones.

Shouldn't they be paid a Living Wage(TM) regardless of their title?

Sure, if you want to lose the prisoners' game of wages before the other person (a competitor) makes a move. That's like asking "If you want the tax rate to rise, why don't YOU pay more in taxes?" The point isn't that I want to pay more, it's that the system we have is insufficient to provide the things we want out of it (i.e. allowing businesses to pay people $7/hour is insufficient if we also want to limit government spending on TANF/SNAP/etc; taxing the top bracket at 39.6% is insufficient if we want something close to budget solvency anytime this century), so the system must be changed.

Social or legislative advocacy (or, you know, even just a 9-5) also won't mean a hill of beans if you can't afford to pay your people.

Mother Jones will be at a competitive disadvantage by paying even min wage? They cannot voluntarily pay more without being forced? Presumably they pay non-interns a good bit more than $1,000 a month. Is there something magical about the title "intern" that they can only be paid very little without a law saying they be paid more? Or is it more of a matter where interns are generally young, inexperienced students who don't provide enough benefit t ...


As far as getting better interns, Mother Jones is at a competitive advantage. Most publishing interns make nothing. I do think their interns should make at least minimum wage. The increase in the stipend to $1500/month takes it up to that, and it should have been that across the board for all internships. But let's not pretend that the majority of publishing internships pay even a dime.
 
2013-12-05 01:27:51 PM

skozlaw: What the heck is latte liberalism? All the people I know who drink latte are a bunch of stuffed-shirt conservatives from the suburbs who think that Starbucks is a lifestyle.


I don't know about you, but I've met a lot of yuppies who vote Democratic.  They're not the type who read Mother Jones, but there is at least some overlap between the two demographics.
 
2013-12-05 01:28:53 PM

skullkrusher: You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage.


Oh, I see the disconnect. They're able to attract better individual talent by paying higher wages (assuming a 50k/year worker is always a "better" worker than a 40k/year worker, I guess), but they're less able to compete overall because they have less to spend.

Hmmm, a zero-sum game with benefits and risks on both sides? In business? Never!
 
2013-12-05 01:53:39 PM

Dr Dreidel: skullkrusher: You are not at a competitive disadvantage by paying higher than prevailing wages. That is a competitive advantage.

Oh, I see the disconnect. They're able to attract better individual talent by paying higher wages (assuming a 50k/year worker is always a "better" worker than a 40k/year worker, I guess), but they're less able to compete overall because they have less to spend.

Hmmm, a zero-sum game with benefits and risks on both sides? In business? Never!


Not a zero sum game, a game where you try to maximize the benefit by choosing the correct balance.

So offering a high (as composted to similar positions) salary will allow you to be much more selective and have a larger talent pool to choose from.

Just raising the pay of existing interns will give you very little bang for your buck, though it may still have done impact.

And if your interns are just coffee fetchers, then having "better" ones probably won't do much for you.

And there will certainly be diminishing returns. Paying 50% more might have a huge impact, but 100% might not do much more.
 
2013-12-05 02:21:07 PM

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The Lone Gunman: Where are interns well paid?

I mean...ANYwhere?

The firm I work for does an internship program with a couple of community colleges in Northeast Ohio and the interns that are brought in from the accounting department do actual tax and accounting work, and are paid commensurately. I personally know of two of the interns that were paid just below what I make in salary, but they were not included on the commission scale. One used the semester that he interned to lobby for a full time job, got it, then turned around a year and a half later and used that additional experience to land a full time job paying salary plus commission. The other used her internship to lobby for a full time job in our payroll department and now works full time on salary. (PR doesn't get commission.)


So the internships were well paying, they were temp jobs (which is fine), and the interns parlayed that into full-time work (which is how it's supposed to go).

"The Office" aside, interns aren't supposed to make their living interning.  They're supposed to get experience, get college credit, and use it to get full-time work in your field.

I think it's great that your firm has done that well by its interns, but not all businesses are like that.  Radio stations certainly aren't, and business that have students compete to intern for them are in a better position to dictate terms.  If NewsCorp didn't pay their interns in anything but experience and college credit (and I don't know if they do or not), I would be fine with it.  If they treated their employees badly in ways they didn't anticipate (yelling, harassment, etc) that would be something else.
 
2013-12-05 02:22:34 PM

Dr Dreidel: The Lone Gunman: Where are interns well paid?

I mean...ANYwhere?

I made $11/hr as an intern...in 2005. Got hired full-time a year later for about 35-40 grand. Of course, at the same time, I was an unpaid intern at a radio station for $0/hr and 0 college credit (I actually had to sign up for a noncredit class in order to get the internship) - but they paid for breakfast.

// and I got to meet Kevin Nealon and Alex Ovechkin and Shavo Odadjian and Darren Malakian and half the cast of X3
// and no job in broadcasting :(


You should come down to Helium Comedy Club, Kevin Nealon's there whenever he's in Phily.
 
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