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(Washington Post)   You can tell most secret societies said to control the world are fake; the real ones just throw press conferences and explain exactly how they plan on subverting democracy to their agenda, adding, "Just try and stop us"   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 157
    More: Scary, Philip Morris, Grand Hyatt, press conference, political agenda, American Electric Power, Majority Leader Eric Cantor, dating service, democracy  
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5962 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 9:59 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



157 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-05 08:30:54 AM
They own the Republican party so what do they have to hide? Sure the tea baggers got a little out of control there but they'll fix that soon enough
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2013-12-05 08:45:42 AM

Peter von Nostrand: They own the Republican party so what do they have to hide? Sure the tea baggers got a little out of control there but they'll fix that soon enough


Most countries are run by people like that.  I do think we are moving in that direction.
 
2013-12-05 09:01:45 AM
Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.
 
2013-12-05 09:15:33 AM
My secret cabal isn't going so well.

deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-05 09:49:18 AM
Interesting
 
2013-12-05 10:07:08 AM
"Our business meetings are not open, and so the subcommittee meetings and task force meetings are not open," explained Bill Meierling, an ALEC spokesman..But Meierling wanted to assure me that there was nothing untoward about this arrangement, and that it was absolutely not true that the corporations that fund ALEC were behind closed doors, handing their legislative wish lists to the conservative state legislators who then pass them, rubber-stamp style, from coast to coast.

Despite the fact that they are, literally, behind closed doors. Nothing untowed, though! Legislators just looking for some advice, that's all! The corporations sponsoring these events would never, ever, think about trying to use their considerable wealth and influence to unduly influence policy makers. Heaven forfend!
 
2013-12-05 10:07:08 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


Or hanged for treason.
 
2013-12-05 10:07:10 AM
Thanks Obama
 
2013-12-05 10:10:53 AM
I heard they were changing their rules so that they don't have to reveal their donors anymore.. they lost a lot of donors in recent months due to public pressure.  So, don't reveal who the donors are anymore.
 
2013-12-05 10:12:16 AM
dasbut.com
 
2013-12-05 10:12:24 AM
Well... maybe you will just have to pass those bills to see what is in them.

That works.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:51 AM

HMS_Blinkin: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

Or hanged for treason.


THIS
 
2013-12-05 10:20:36 AM

netcentric: Well... maybe you will just have to pass those bills to see what is in them.

That works.


Hey, you know how I know you know nothing despite being told many times that Nancy was referring to the bill that the Senate had yet to pass, the one that was going to be differet than the house passed one?

Keep potatoing, Potato-American.
 
2013-12-05 10:21:42 AM
Enough lead always balances the scales.
 
2013-12-05 10:22:39 AM
The mob had a presser?
 
2013-12-05 10:22:57 AM
Challenge accepted.

/Warren 2016
 
2013-12-05 10:23:01 AM
i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.
 
2013-12-05 10:23:13 AM
In it, ALEC outlines six primary types of gay people: "the blatant"; "the secret lifer"; "the desperate"; "the adjusted"; "the bisexual"; and "the situational." Link

If there was such a thing as an "evil" entity, ALEC is it.
 
2013-12-05 10:25:11 AM
imgs.xkcd.com

Had to....
 
2013-12-05 10:25:39 AM
Emboldened by the Guardian report, liberal politicians held an anti-ALEC teleconference Wednesday afternoon. "ALEC," said Rep. Mark Pocan (D-Wis.), a former member of the group, "is nothing more than a corporate-funded and -dominated group that operates much like a dating service, only between legislators and special interests."

It's like speed dating for assholes.

*click*

"Hi, I'm Biff Fatwad.  I like poisoning the environment, high short-term profits over long term sustainability, suppressing civil dissent, and gaining unfair advantages while simultaneously singing the praises of 'competition.'"
 
2013-12-05 10:28:00 AM
If ALEC is "totally legislator driven" as their spokesman claimed, then how did several states last year nearly simultaneously introduce and pass virtually the same bills on voter suppression, abortion restrictions, resource extraction, relaxation of concealed carry laws, tax breaks for the rich, anti-gay marriage, and anti-public education?

ALEC is scrambling to cover their tracks before the IRS comes down on them with a hammer.
 
MFK
2013-12-05 10:33:30 AM

netcentric: Well... maybe you will just have to pass those bills to see what is in them.

That works.


YOU!

IN THE CORNER NOW!

You can come out when you stop being potato.
 
2013-12-05 10:34:47 AM
The way organizations like ALEC get stopped is but doing to them what was done to ACORN and the ACLU, they need to be demonized so politicians that want to get elected don't associate with them.  But then there is the money...
 
2013-12-05 10:35:31 AM

A Cave Geek: [imgs.xkcd.com image 381x324]

Had to....


Sorry about that, us Freemasons have a hard enough time figure out what to have for dinner at the next Stated Meeting when the Junior Warden isn't going to be available to cook.
 
2013-12-05 10:39:45 AM
the Death Star will be funded one way or another!
 
2013-12-05 10:41:32 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


Anyone have any idea exactly who is signing this oath?

It would seem to go against the oath of office wouldn't it?
 
2013-12-05 10:42:31 AM

Dusk-You-n-Me: In it, ALEC outlines six primary types of gay people: "the blatant"; "the secret lifer"; "the desperate"; "the adjusted"; "the bisexual"; and "the situational." Link

If there was such a thing as an "evil" entity, ALEC is it.


That's really messed up.
 
2013-12-05 10:45:33 AM

unexplained bacon: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

Anyone have any idea exactly who is signing this oath?

It would seem to go against the oath of office wouldn't it?


That was my point.  But yes, I'd LOVE to see a list.  Generally speaking, the Norquist oath signers don't keep it a secret.  I'm sure this ALEC one is a bit trickier.
 
2013-12-05 10:49:08 AM

Diogenes: It's like speed dating for assholes.

*click*

"Hi, I'm Biff Fatwad.  I like poisoning the environment, high short-term profits over long term sustainability, suppressing civil dissent, and gaining unfair advantages while simultaneously singing the praises of 'competition.'"


So close ... you could have used "Farkwad".  or "Lord Farkwad", even

upload.wikimedia.org

"I'm cutting everyone's SNAP and unemplyment benefits, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to take."
 
2013-12-05 10:51:35 AM

KellyX: HMS_Blinkin: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

Or hanged for treason.

THIS


unexplained bacon: Anyone have any idea exactly who is signing this oath?

It would seem to go against the oath of office wouldn't it?


I've been saying that all along regarding the Congressmen who signed Grover Norquist's seditious little tax pledge.

I hold that any legislator or executive at any level who has signed or taken any oath, pledge, covenant, etc. other than the Constitutional Oath or Affirmation of Office, must disclaim it entirely for the duration of his or her term(s), or be deemed ineligible to hold office. Any who, by word or deed while in office or running for office, demonstrates that s/he places any other oath, pledge, covenant, or whatever above the Constitution and its Oath or Affirmation of Office, has committed sedition at best, High Treason at worst.
 
2013-12-05 10:52:25 AM
I've got to love the state legislators (South Dakota) who didn't want to pay for their own ALEC membership dues.   So, they decided that the state would pay ALEC dues for all the legislators.  Including the Democrats.  Brilliant.
 
2013-12-05 10:52:28 AM
The environment and energy task force, led by private-sector American Electric Power. The tax and fiscal policy task force, headed by Altria. The international relations task force, run by Philip Morris. The commerce and insurance task force, by State Farm. And the health and human services task force, by Guarantee Trust Life Insurance.

Like an evil asshole, State Farm is there!

 
2013-12-05 10:52:37 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


Agreed.

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution" - article 6.

As  unexplained baconpointed out earlier in this thread, the phrasing makes their oath to support the constitution of the United States subordinate to their oath to this organization.
 
2013-12-05 10:53:16 AM
Remember, boys and girls:

lacoastpost.com

Not class warfare.

upload.wikimedia.org

Class warfare.
 
2013-12-05 10:55:27 AM

COMALite J: KellyX: HMS_Blinkin: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

Or hanged for treason.

THIS

unexplained bacon: Anyone have any idea exactly who is signing this oath?

It would seem to go against the oath of office wouldn't it?

I've been saying that all along regarding the Congressmen who signed Grover Norquist's seditious little tax pledge.

I hold that any legislator or executive at any level who has signed or taken any oath, pledge, covenant, etc. other than the Constitutional Oath or Affirmation of Office, must disclaim it entirely for the duration of his or her term(s), or be deemed ineligible to hold office. Any who, by word or deed while in office or running for office, demonstrates that s/he places any other oath, pledge, covenant, or whatever above the Constitution and its Oath or Affirmation of Office, has committed sedition at best, High Treason at worst.


Yeah, but, c'mon, campaign money! Treason? Sedition? No, those charges are applied to the little people who dare to contradict their masters.

Remember, Snowden's a traitor, while legislators who sign "loyalty oaths" and expressly subvert the roles of their offices are merely networkers.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:08 AM

Bendal: If ALEC is "totally legislator driven" as their spokesman claimed, then how did several states last year nearly simultaneously introduce and pass virtually the same bills on voter suppression, abortion restrictions, resource extraction, relaxation of concealed carry laws, tax breaks for the rich, anti-gay marriage, and anti-public education?

ALEC is scrambling to cover their tracks before the IRS comes down on them with a hammer.


A Bill Moyers episode from September 2012 that's still worth watching.
 
2013-12-05 10:59:27 AM

COMALite J: I hold that any legislator or executive at any level who has signed or taken any oath, pledge, covenant, etc. other than the Constitutional Oath or Affirmation of Office, must disclaim it entirely for the duration of his or her term(s), or be deemed ineligible to hold office.


If this were the rule, I can see Bill Clinton running for office again. "Sorry, Hillary, but I have to disclaim my marriage vows while I'm in office."
 
2013-12-05 11:00:41 AM
Fortunately, ACORN will stop them.
 
2013-12-05 11:05:15 AM
fc09.deviantart.net
 
2013-12-05 11:05:30 AM
So THIS is the steering wheel on the GOP's back?

Geeze, let 'm drive!
BTW, the cliff is over there...
 
2013-12-05 11:05:46 AM
ALEC has been a major force behind the conservative swing in state capitals, and it claims 82 alumni in the House - including Speaker John Boehner (Ohio) and Majority Leader Eric Cantor (Va.)

so true:
In June 1995, Boehner distributed campaign contributions from tobacco industry lobbyists on the House floor as House members were weighing how to vote on tobacco subsidies.[19] In a 1996 documentary by PBS called The People and the Power Game, Boehner said "They asked me to give out a half dozen checks quickly before we got to the end of the month and I complied. And I did it on the House floor."
 
2013-12-05 11:05:52 AM
What's funny to me is that the 'societies' that the right whines so hard about, i.e. PETA, ACORN, Greenpeace, and other like that wouldn't hold any REAL power if the GOP didn't give it to them by focusing so much attention on them.  If the GOP just ignored these groups, they wouldn't have much in the way of any REAL power or influence.

ALEC, Norquist's group, and groups like that....they're different.  They do REAL damage, and cause REAL destruction.
 
2013-12-05 11:07:28 AM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


1989-2012.  Interesting choice of time period. No, not misleading at all.
 
2013-12-05 11:10:19 AM
I personally think that any legislator who swears a loyalty oath to a political organization is guilty of abrogation of their oath to the Constitution and the American people.
 
2013-12-05 11:12:22 AM
 
2013-12-05 11:12:27 AM

Cyclometh: I personally think that any legislator who swears a loyalty oath to a political organization is guilty of abrogation of their oath to the Constitution and the American people.


Oath of office should trump any outside 'oath' to do certain things once elected.  Otherwise, there's the nasty little 'sedition' thing that could come back to bite you.
 
2013-12-05 11:13:24 AM

Bucky Katt: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

1989-2012.  Interesting choice of time period. No, not misleading at all.


That is when that graph was printed - so you think they jumped ahead of any of them in the last year or so?
Stick your head back into the sand.
 
2013-12-05 11:13:50 AM

Bucky Katt: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

1989-2012.  Interesting choice of time period. No, not misleading at all.


How dare he use the most recent completed year and several decades before that. What is he trying to pull?
 
2013-12-05 11:13:51 AM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


i1282.photobucket.com

i1282.photobucket.com
i1282.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-05 11:13:54 AM
Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

"I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

"I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

"and put the interests of the organization first."

Please tell me that this very statement violates the oath every ALEC-owned politician makes when being sworn in to uphold the Constitution?
 
2013-12-05 11:14:35 AM

Mentat: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

[i1282.photobucket.com image 509x359]

[i1282.photobucket.com image 850x630]
[i1282.photobucket.com image 850x656]


Finally the Glenn Beck of the Left is found.
 
2013-12-05 11:17:16 AM

StopLurkListen: Diogenes: It's like speed dating for assholes.

*click*

"Hi, I'm Biff Fatwad.  I like poisoning the environment, high short-term profits over long term sustainability, suppressing civil dissent, and gaining unfair advantages while simultaneously singing the praises of 'competition.'"

So close ... you could have used "Farkwad".  or "Lord Farkwad", even

[upload.wikimedia.org image 461x346]

"I'm cutting everyone's SNAP and unemplyment benefits, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to take."


Or Fartenhold.....I mean Farentold.

nhlabornews.com
 
2013-12-05 11:17:22 AM
Wealth/Capital controls/owns the World.   The World and everything besides.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:43 AM
the govt and big business collude to steal from us. film at 11

the govt is more than happy to let them rob us blind,use us as guinea pigs,poison us etc. as long as they get their cut.

last night's Daily show had a couple of great examples of this collusion on it.
 
2013-12-05 11:20:25 AM
47 posts and nobody's made a smart-ALEC pun?
 
MFK
2013-12-05 11:20:28 AM

Muta: The way organizations like ALEC get stopped is but doing to them what was done to ACORN and the ACLU, they need to be demonized so politicians that want to get elected don't associate with them.  But then there is the money...


Any demonization will just drive them underground or get them to change their name and then we're starting all over again. Having them out in the open makes them easier to deal with and manage. It's not like corporations who are trying to buy politicians and influence policy are going to go away and since they've got ALL the money, this is just the 1%'s way of spending it on themselves. You can only buy so many cars and summer homes, you know. They are acting in their own self interest and however evil that may seem to the rest of us, we all do the same albeit on a much less damaging level. Having ALEC on the field makes them a recognizable target. It's not ALEC that needs to be fought - they need to be WATCHED so we can see who they're buying and what they're trying to do. THEN, we go after the politicians that take their farking money and legislate accordingly.
 
2013-12-05 11:20:33 AM

Zeno-25: Enough lead always balances the scales.



the only thing wealth/capital respects is money and bullets.   in that order.   Reason and Logic do not apply.
 
2013-12-05 11:24:21 AM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


yeah because the Kochs are just two brothers. the unions represent all the union workers in America.
to really get a good idea of what the unions are up against you'd need to compare all the CEOs' and Corporations' money to the unions.
and you'll never know that amount because it's secret.
it's protected dark money that the politicians have made sure you'll never know who is paying them
 
2013-12-05 11:25:08 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.



well it goes to show.   America always was about me, me, me.  and mine, mine, mine.   we're just reaping the fruits of the seeds that were planted long ago.  its Freedom, i guess.
 
2013-12-05 11:25:49 AM

Lawnchair: I've got to love the state legislators (South Dakota) who didn't want to pay for their own ALEC membership dues.   So, they decided that the state would pay ALEC dues for all the legislators.  Including the Democrats.  Brilliant.


I live in the state, and this is the first I've heard about this. That is incredibly outrageous and needs to be reversed as soon as possible.
 
2013-12-05 11:26:15 AM

Alphax: I heard they were changing their rules so that they don't have to reveal their donors anymore.. they lost a lot of donors in recent months due to public pressure.  So, don't reveal who the donors are anymore.



the Owners make the rules and everyone else follows them.   except the Owners.
 
2013-12-05 11:27:33 AM
Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, We do.

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do.

Who keeps back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do.

Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we dooooooo.
 
2013-12-05 11:28:11 AM

mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.



you have to get past their tax paid for police first.   ironic, since wall streeters claim to hate socialism.
 
2013-12-05 11:32:07 AM

Alphax: I heard they were changing their rules so that they don't have to reveal their donors anymore.. they lost a lot of donors in recent months due to public pressure.  So, don't reveal who the donors are anymore.


They're supposedly converting from a 501(c)3 tax exempt/non profit organization that has to reveal its donors that isn't supposed to lobby the government into a 501(c)4 organization. 501(c)4's are not tax exempt, but they don't have to disclose donors.
 
2013-12-05 11:32:08 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


This. No oath before the constitution
 
2013-12-05 11:32:13 AM

Linux_Yes: Zeno-25: Enough lead always balances the scales.


the only thing wealth/capital respects is money and bullets.   in that order.   Reason and Logic do not apply.


actually a nationwide work stoppage and refusal to purchase from large corporations for a few days would send a strong message.
good luck getting that organized. and yeah that could be considered money in the "money and bullets" equation.

but if enough people,got tired of their bullshiat and demanded a constitutional convention to fix this shiat and were willing to sacrifice for it ,it would happen.
we need an amendment to ban anything but public financing of elections.
also to instantly remove from office anyone caught taking money or gifts
also to demand instant runoff voting so we could break the duopoly.
 
2013-12-05 11:33:46 AM

drunk_bouncnbaloruber: Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, We do.

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do.

Who keeps back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do.

Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we dooooooo.


Shoot that poison arrow through my heaaa-aaaart!
 
2013-12-05 11:36:50 AM

Hobodeluxe: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

yeah because the Kochs are just two brothers. the unions represent all the union workers in America.
to really get a good idea of what the unions are up against you'd need to compare all the CEOs' and Corporations' money to the unions.
and you'll never know that amount because it's secret.
it's protected dark money that the politicians have made sure you'll never know who is paying them


Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa.  I've heard them all.
 
2013-12-05 11:37:07 AM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


Yes the poor little Koch brothers are being outspent by the big meanies on the left.  Do you really expect anyone to believe this garbage?  Have you got a head?
 
MFK
2013-12-05 11:39:36 AM

for good or for awesome: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

Yes the poor little Koch brothers are being outspent by the big meanies on the left.  Do you really expect anyone to believe this garbage?  Have you got a head?


but it's a PICTURE! and a GRAPH!

sure, it's all bullshiat, but it's RIGHT THERE IN SCARY COLOR!
 
2013-12-05 11:40:04 AM

karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.


You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?
 
2013-12-05 11:43:31 AM

Linux_Yes: mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


you have to get past their tax paid for police first.   ironic, since wall streeters claim to hate socialism.


"rage against the machine" ... There's a strike and a line of cops outside of tha mill. There's a right to obey. And a right to kill.
 
2013-12-05 11:43:37 AM

Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?



Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.
 
MFK
2013-12-05 11:45:20 AM

karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.


oh fark you.
 
2013-12-05 11:46:23 AM
robot6.comicbookresources.com
 
2013-12-05 11:48:50 AM

Everyone check out the Comments, and set it to show "Oldest First."
Read the comments by journalist Mike Stark.

draypresct: COMALite J: I hold that any legislator or executive at any level who has signed or taken any oath, pledge, covenant, etc. other than the Constitutional Oath or Affirmation of Office, must disclaim it entirely for the duration of his or her term(s), or be deemed ineligible to hold office.

If this were the rule, I can see Bill Clinton running for office again. "Sorry, Hillary, but I have to disclaim my marriage vows while I'm in office."


Any oath or covenant or pledge that has anything to do with official actions in office. I should've clarified.
 
2013-12-05 11:51:28 AM

MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.


Maybe, but it will hurt - sent me your picture
 
2013-12-05 11:53:27 AM

MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.


meh, he's down to being intentionally obtuse, he's got nothin and has lost the argument.
 
2013-12-05 11:54:07 AM

A Cave Geek: Cyclometh: I personally think that any legislator who swears a loyalty oath to a political organization is guilty of abrogation of their oath to the Constitution and the American people.

Oath of office should trump any outside 'oath' to do certain things once elected.  Otherwise, there's the nasty little 'sedition' thing that could come back to bite you.


The sad thing is that those "oaths" they take are meaningless to them.  Just mere technicalities which are  needed to be performed in order to obtain personal gain.  Once the "oath" no longer becomes beneficial they abandon it, and move on to the next opportunity to swear their allegience to.
 
2013-12-05 11:54:46 AM
Now ALEC is trying to make people with solar panels pay penalties for producing surplus energy.

Link
 
2013-12-05 11:56:11 AM

mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


Sign me up for your secret militia.
 
2013-12-05 11:57:01 AM

for good or for awesome: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

Yes the poor little Koch brothers are being outspent by the big meanies on the left.  Do you really expect anyone to believe this garbage?  Have you got a head?


You don't understand.  All those big meanies on the Left are owned and operated by George Soros - the biggest, meanest Leftie there is!
 
2013-12-05 11:57:38 AM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


Well, the only way they can be removed is to remove the dumb fu*cks that vote for them. You don't live down south do you?
 
2013-12-05 12:00:15 PM
You can put British Empire in every instance of "USA" in the article, and it would be true in 1890.


We currently have world political power of a mildly fragrant great-aunt. Sure, sometimes people listen to us, but they generally just invite us over because it's polite, and that's what they've always done.


No empire rules forever, or rules twice.


/GOD SAVE THE QUEEN.
 
2013-12-05 12:02:11 PM
Ooops. Entirely wrong article....


IGNORE ME.

CARRY ON.
 
2013-12-05 12:04:12 PM

Wendy's Chili: Now ALEC is trying to make people with solar panels pay penalties for producing surplus energy.

Link


Good! It might cost them some more donors.
 
2013-12-05 12:08:19 PM
 
2013-12-05 12:11:43 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_American_Legislat i ve_Exchange_Council

Much like the Freemasons, they are shart when it comes to being a "secret" society.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:08 PM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]



So, putting aside the think tanks and PACs, etc., your graph illustrates that hundreds of thousands of workers pooling their money contributed more than 2 guys did individually.

Shocking.
 
2013-12-05 12:15:29 PM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


Let's see - even if the graph is correct*, it looks like the groups on the left represent very large numbers of people over a wide swath of society (mainly middle class, but some upper & lower). These people have a wide range of interests. If all the groups on the left-hand side of the graph are aligned on an issue, doesn't that say something about the issue?

The Koch brothers represent themselves and their own interests.

Put that way, doesn't comparing the combined donations of millions of people v. two people seem a bit dishonest to you?** Would you agree that the Koch brothers have a great deal of access and control over legislation?

*As has been already pointed out in this thread, the Koch brothers operate through a number of subsidiary organizations. Counting only direct donations is disingenuous.
**Just because the rest of the US has much more money combined than he ever will doesn't make Bill Gates poor.
 
2013-12-05 12:16:00 PM

Headso: MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.

meh, he's down to being intentionally obtuse, he's got nothin and has lost the argument.


Argument ended when he replied "oh fark you."
 
2013-12-05 12:17:04 PM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]



AFSCME         1,400,000 members
SEIU                1,900,000 members
NEA                 3,200,000 members
IBEW               750,000  members
Laborers Int.    632,000 members
AFT                  889,000 members


Koch Brothers      2 members
 
2013-12-05 12:21:04 PM

Linux_Yes: mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


you have to get past their tax paid for police first.   ironic, since wall streeters claim to hate socialism.


A massive police force you say? I'm pretty sure thats why suicide bombers were invented.

Any volunteers? Anyone?
Hello? Beuller?
 
2013-12-05 12:21:40 PM

karnal: Headso: MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.

meh, he's down to being intentionally obtuse, he's got nothin and has lost the argument.

Argument ended when he replied "oh fark you."


Actually, the argument ended when you posted that shamelessly disingenuous graph. Since then, it's all just been pointing and laughing at you.
 
2013-12-05 12:24:10 PM

karnal: Headso: MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.

meh, he's down to being intentionally obtuse, he's got nothin and has lost the argument.

Argument ended when he replied "oh fark you."


notice how that was after you were intentionally obtuse?
 
2013-12-05 12:32:14 PM
Alec's  includes companies such as the telecoms firm AT&T, energy concerns Exxon Mobil and Peabody Energy, the pharma company , drinks giant Diageo and the tobacco multinational Altria.  

Great, now i have to stop drinking Guinness
 
2013-12-05 12:36:34 PM
karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.


Ladies and gentleman, I give you "Signs your troll is full - Exhibit A".
 
2013-12-05 12:37:54 PM
So who won the coke?
 
2013-12-05 12:43:42 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Linux_Yes: mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


you have to get past their tax paid for police first.   ironic, since wall streeters claim to hate socialism.

A massive police force you say? I'm pretty sure thats why suicide bombers were invented.

Any volunteers? Anyone?
Hello? Beuller?



wall street is alot more secure than your owners have told you.  appearances can be deceiving.
 
2013-12-05 12:45:24 PM

MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.


He's a troll.  And based on his posts here, his purpose is to deflect from actually looking at how PACs and other groups use money to control our government.  So put him on ignore and let's go on having a civilized conversation about how to actually fix this.
 
2013-12-05 12:45:34 PM

MFK: oh fark you.

 
2013-12-05 12:49:14 PM

Bendal: If ALEC is "totally legislator driven" as their spokesman claimed, then how did several states last year nearly simultaneously introduce and pass virtually the same bills on voter suppression, abortion restrictions, resource extraction, relaxation of concealed carry laws, tax breaks for the rich, anti-gay marriage, and anti-public education?

ALEC is scrambling to cover their tracks before the IRS comes down on them with a hammer.


That's totally plausible...unless, of course, the legislator forgets to take ALEC's mission statement off the bill
 
2013-12-05 12:56:16 PM
It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s
 
2013-12-05 12:59:02 PM

WI241TH: That's totally plausible...unless, of course, the legislator forgets to take ALEC's mission statement off the bill


I'm kind of depressed about that.  Generally, that would be an "Aha!" moment for anyone who's asserting the corporations are killing the US by subverting the role of gov't... but it's been so obvious for so long that this has been going on it's not even a surprise.
 
2013-12-05 01:00:59 PM

karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


You know, there's a reason your teachers hammered in the need for citations. It helps the rest of us know if you pulled those statistics from your ass or not, and when you  don't have citations...well, I can see a bit of brown on the edge of that image, if you catch my drift.
 
2013-12-05 01:03:35 PM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?
 
2013-12-05 01:04:13 PM

Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?
 
2013-12-05 01:06:14 PM

A Cave Geek: [imgs.xkcd.com image 381x324]

Had to....


Glad you did. Had not seen that one, yet.  Thought of Austin Powers...

/wanders away from thread to watch clips

//for the low, low price of just one billion, trillion dollars
 
2013-12-05 01:07:02 PM

Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?


Well, for starters, we haven't had a good genocide around here in quite some time.
 
2013-12-05 01:10:09 PM

BMulligan: Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?


"jeffersonian"
 
2013-12-05 01:11:20 PM

BMulligan: Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?

Well, for starters, we haven't had a good genocide around here in quite some time.


We killed 50 million uncivilised savages to get this country. We need to think about doing that again.
 
2013-12-05 01:14:04 PM

Jackson Herring: BMulligan: Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

"jeffersonian"


Perhaps they mean George Jefferson? He moved on up to the East Side - that sounds pretty bootstrappy.
 
2013-12-05 01:16:46 PM

Tigger: BMulligan: Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?

Well, for starters, we haven't had a good genocide around here in quite some time.

We killed 50 million uncivilised savages to get this country. We need to think about doing that again.


I don't like Teabaggers either, but I don't advocate killiing them.
 
2013-12-05 01:17:15 PM

Headso: karnal: Headso: MFK: karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?


Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.

meh, he's down to being intentionally obtuse, he's got nothin and has lost the argument.

Argument ended when he replied "oh fark you."

notice how that was after you were intentionally obtuse?


Yes - I did notice that.
 
2013-12-05 01:23:40 PM

mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


Wait, so the leftists who hate Wall Street are now pro-gun? And pro coup?
 
2013-12-05 01:25:07 PM

Wendy's Chili: Now ALEC is trying to make people with solar panels pay penalties for producing surplus energy.

Link


Trying?  APS and SRP in Phoenix are already charging people with solar panels a fee.

The pure, unadulterated greed is sickening.
 
2013-12-05 01:25:56 PM

BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

George

Jeffersonian principles. Quality dry cleaning at a fair price.
 
2013-12-05 01:31:56 PM

teenage mutant ninja rapist: Linux_Yes: mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


you have to get past their tax paid for police first.   ironic, since wall streeters claim to hate socialism.

A massive police force you say? I'm pretty sure thats why suicide bombers were invented.

Any volunteers? Anyone?
Hello? Beuller?


Oh, that wouldn't be necessary. Just imagine if the Beltway Snipers had targeted Fortune 500 executives. Nothing will change until the 1% experience the same fear and pain that the little people have to put up with.
 
2013-12-05 01:35:54 PM

mrEdude: i think it's time that a million armed americans stormed wall street and kill anything that moves.

Burn the deadwood, make room for actual growth.


Yes, we'll un-fu*ck them

i885.photobucket.com.
 
2013-12-05 01:36:35 PM

Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?


I don't think we're in the middle of a totalitarian movement yet, but wouldn't take much to push the right-wing crazies over the edge. The charismatic leader you mention could do it, or some sort of prolonged national crisis.
 
2013-12-05 01:43:30 PM

Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s



Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!
 
2013-12-05 01:44:33 PM

Hobodeluxe: the govt

Conservative elected officials and big business collude to steal from us. film at 11

the govt
Conservative elected officials is are more than happy to let them rob us blind,use us as guinea pigs,poison us etc. as long as they get their cut.

last night's Daily show had a couple of great examples of this collusion on it.


FTFY.

"The govt" is "we, the people."

Unfortunately, "we, the people," keep electing corrupt right-wing dickbags 'cause 'Murica!!!
 
2013-12-05 01:48:37 PM

Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.


So much for a representative government.
 
2013-12-05 01:54:40 PM

jjorsett: BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

George Jeffersonian principles. Quality dry cleaning at a fair price.


We don't usually agree, but I have to say that was pretty damn clever.
 
2013-12-05 01:59:00 PM

mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!



Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.
 
MFK
2013-12-05 02:10:00 PM

karnal: mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.


About Us
Blueprint North Carolina is a partnership of more than 50 different local organizations. Our goal is to influence NC state policy so that people here benefit from more progressive policies such as better access to health care, higher wages, more affordable housing, a safer, cleaner environment, and freedom from discrimination.

god you suck at this.
 
2013-12-05 02:20:32 PM

qorkfiend: Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?

I don't think we're in the middle of a totalitarian movement yet, but wouldn't take much to push the right-wing crazies over the edge. The charismatic leader you mention could do it, or some sort of prolonged national crisis.


Precisely why good lefties should not eschew gun ownership. When chaos and crisis come again, it can't be that the fascists and their Teabagging brownshirts are the only ones with guns, lest we all relive Wiemar Germany under a new Dührper.
 
2013-12-05 02:23:03 PM

maxheck: jjorsett: BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."

lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

George Jeffersonian principles. Quality dry cleaning at a fair price.

We don't usually agree, but I have to say that was pretty damn clever.


Area ALEC Passionate Defenders of What They Imagine Jefferson to have Been.
 
2013-12-05 02:29:50 PM

MFK: karnal: mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.

About Us
Blueprint North Carolina is a partnership of more than 50 different local organizations. Our goal is to influence NC state policy so that people here benefit from more progressive policies such as better access to health care, higher wages, more affordable housing, a safer, cleaner environment, and freedom from discrimination.

god you suck at this.


He really, really does.

You know, any time I end up finding myself repeatedly citing shiat that turns out at every turn to be some kind of obvious falsehood or misrepresentation I seriously rethink my position and re-evaluate the source which is providing me such poor information. That's a large part of how my personal politics have grown over the years to what they are today, and why I quit the GOP.

I wonder if karnal will be able to re-examine himself and his own sources similarly. In my experience few people - sadly - seem to be capable of that kind willingness to admit when they're probably wrong and be honest with themselves going forward, and even less when their starting position is on the right.
 
2013-12-05 02:36:24 PM

mongbiohazard: MFK: karnal: mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.

About Us
Blueprint North Carolina is a partnership of more than 50 different local organizations. Our goal is to influence NC state policy so that people here benefit from more progressive policies such as better access to health care, higher wages, more affordable housing, a safer, cleaner environment, and freedom from discrimination.

god you suck at this.

He really, really does.

You know, any time I end up finding myself repeatedly citing shiat that turns out at every turn to be some kind of obvious falsehood or misrepresentation I seriously rethink my position and re-evaluate the source which is providing me such poor information. That's a large part of how my personal politics have grown over the years to what they are today, and why I quit the GOP.

I wonder if karnal will be able to re-examine himself and his own sources similarly. In my experience few people - sadly - seem to be capable of that kind willingness to admit when they're probably wrong and be honest with themselves going forward, and even less when their starting position is on the right.



I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint
 
2013-12-05 02:52:25 PM

karnal: I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint


From that site's about page...

We investigate the aims and activities of left-liberal special interest groups.  We research their sources of funding and profile their donors.  We examine how they operate and analyze their impact on our politics and society.

Do you even understand what you are complaining about?
 
2013-12-05 03:00:05 PM

JusticeandIndependence: karnal: I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint

From that site's about page...

We investigate the aims and activities of left-liberal special interest groups.  We research their sources of funding and profile their donors.  We examine how they operate and analyze their impact on our politics and society.

Do you even understand what you are complaining about?


How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.
 
2013-12-05 03:06:01 PM

karnal: How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.


Just because a super right wing supposedly "independent" group calls Blueprint a  Shadow Network: A leaked strategy memo reveals a powerful, and partisan, network of left-wing nonprofits doesn't mean it's true.

Basically I'm calling B.S. on your source.
 
2013-12-05 03:14:58 PM

JusticeandIndependence: karnal: How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.

Just because a super right wing supposedly "independent" group calls Blueprint a  Shadow Network: A leaked strategy memo reveals a powerful, and partisan, network of left-wing nonprofits doesn't mean it's true.

Basically I'm calling B.S. on your source.


Well then, here is the original site to run the article.....have at it.  ------->Observer
 
2013-12-05 03:25:50 PM

karnal: JusticeandIndependence: karnal: How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.

Just because a super right wing supposedly "independent" group calls Blueprint a  Shadow Network: A leaked strategy memo reveals a powerful, and partisan, network of left-wing nonprofits doesn't mean it's true.

Basically I'm calling B.S. on your source.

Well then, here is the original site to run the article.....have at it.  ------->Observer


So then a liberal group is trying to do to McCrory what the Plutocrat Party has been doing to Obama for five years now.  But IOKIYAR, right?
 
2013-12-05 03:35:20 PM

karnal: JusticeandIndependence: karnal: How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.

Just because a super right wing supposedly "independent" group calls Blueprint a  Shadow Network: A leaked strategy memo reveals a powerful, and partisan, network of left-wing nonprofits doesn't mean it's true.

Basically I'm calling B.S. on your source.

Well then, here is the original site to run the article.....have at it.  ------->Observer


Yes and?

He said the group, which acts as a "back office" to other nonprofits, isn't trying to influence an election. "Office holders, not office seekers," he said, "are fair game.

How is that "shadow" group different than the Capital Research Center?

From Capital Research's site...
We investigate the aims and activities of left-liberal special interest groups.  We research their sources of funding and profile their donors.  We examine how they operate and analyze their impact on our politics and society.
From the same farking statement.....
CRC is an independent, tax-exempt institution governed by an independent board of trustees.



What exactly are you complaining about?
 
2013-12-05 03:50:05 PM

mongbiohazard: Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


There's some pretty massive projection going on.  The other day in one of these threads, someone was joking about liberal conspiracy theories about the GOP trying to gut the Voting Rights Act.  It's not a conspiracy theory when the conservative faction of the Supreme Court GUTS THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT!
 
2013-12-05 03:50:24 PM

JusticeandIndependence: karnal: JusticeandIndependence: karnal: How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.

Just because a super right wing supposedly "independent" group calls Blueprint a  Shadow Network: A leaked strategy memo reveals a powerful, and partisan, network of left-wing nonprofits doesn't mean it's true.

Basically I'm calling B.S. on your source.

Well then, here is the original site to run the article.....have at it.  ------->Observer

Yes and?

He said the group, which acts as a "back office" to other nonprofits, isn't trying to influence an election. "Office holders, not office seekers," he said, "are fair game.

How is that "shadow" group different than the Capital Research Center?

From Capital Research's site...
We investigate the aims and activities of left-liberal special interest groups.  We research their sources of funding and profile their donors.  We examine how they operate and analyze their impact on our politics and society.
From the same farking statement.....
CRC is an independent, tax-exempt institution governed by an independent board of trustees.


What exactly are you complaining about?



Not so much complaining than trying to show that the Koch Bros are not the only shadow group in town.....and that both sides have their own groups trying to promote their agenda.

Basically, it is the agenda that we don't agree on.
 
2013-12-05 03:50:27 PM
COMALite J:

maxheck: jjorsett: BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."

lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

George Jeffersonian principles. Quality dry cleaning at a fair price.

We don't usually agree, but I have to say that was pretty damn clever.

Area ALEC Passionate Defenders of What They Imagine Jefferson to have Been.


Gonna take a wild stab here and guess you're kinda young. :)

The Jeffersons (and Norman Lear) sort of embodied everything ALEC hates, come to think of it. The entire 70's.
 
MFK
2013-12-05 03:55:20 PM

karnal: JusticeandIndependence: karnal: I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint

From that site's about page...

We investigate the aims and activities of left-liberal special interest groups.  We research their sources of funding and profile their donors.  We examine how they operate and analyze their impact on our politics and society.

Do you even understand what you are complaining about?

How does that make Blueprint not a shadow group?  Your use of misdirection is just a form of deception.


because they are OPEN about their goals of INFLUENCING POLICY IN NC.
 
2013-12-05 03:58:50 PM

karnal: and that both sides have their own groups trying to promote their agenda.


And you just happen to use a super right wing agenda group to show how bad the left is?

Weird.
 
2013-12-05 04:01:02 PM

karnal: mongbiohazard: MFK: karnal: mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.

About Us
Blueprint North Carolina is a partnership of more than 50 different local organizations. Our goal is to influence NC state policy so that people here benefit from more progressive policies such as better access to health care, higher wages, more affordable housing, a safer, cleaner environment, and freedom from discrimination.

god you suck at this.

He really, really does.

You know, any time I end up finding myself repeatedly citing shiat that turns out at every turn to be some kind of obvious falsehood or misrepresentation I seriously rethink my position and re-evaluate the source which is providing me such poor information. That's a large part of how my personal politics have grown over the years to what they are today, and why I quit the GOP.

I wonder if karnal will be able to re-examine himself and his own sources similarly. In my experience few people - sadly - seem to be capable of that kind willingness to admit when they're probably wrong and be honest with themselves going forward, and even less when their starting position is on the right.


I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint


The chicken is begging for death now. It has suffered so much at your hands it actually learned to croak out the one phrase: "Please kill me, end my suffering." So stop farking that chicken already.
 
2013-12-05 04:14:04 PM

mongbiohazard: karnal: mongbiohazard: MFK: karnal: mongbiohazard: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s


Yeah, it's not paranoia to say shadowy right-wing groups are controlling the GOP representatives we elect when they're using the damn letterhead!


Much like when a confidential memo from the shadow group called Blueprint NC. was leaked that revealed their plan to attack North Carolina's governor and other conservative leaders.

About Us
Blueprint North Carolina is a partnership of more than 50 different local organizations. Our goal is to influence NC state policy so that people here benefit from more progressive policies such as better access to health care, higher wages, more affordable housing, a safer, cleaner environment, and freedom from discrimination.

god you suck at this.

He really, really does.

You know, any time I end up finding myself repeatedly citing shiat that turns out at every turn to be some kind of obvious falsehood or misrepresentation I seriously rethink my position and re-evaluate the source which is providing me such poor information. That's a large part of how my personal politics have grown over the years to what they are today, and why I quit the GOP.

I wonder if karnal will be able to re-examine himself and his own sources similarly. In my experience few people - sadly - seem to be capable of that kind willingness to admit when they're probably wrong and be honest with themselves going forward, and even less when their starting position is on the right.


I'm wrong a lot - but not about Blueprint

The chicken is begging for death now. It has suffered so much at your hands it

actually learned to croak out the one phrase: "Please kill me, end my suffering." So stop farking that chicken already.

Obviously, you have never farked a chicken....you just can't stop.
 
2013-12-05 04:35:32 PM
karnal: ...Basically, it is the agenda that we don't agree on.

And this statement alone, of all the pants-on-head stupid shiat you said in this thread, this would be the cherry on top.

10/10 you masterful crunkbucket.
 
2013-12-05 05:34:44 PM

maxheck: COMALite J:

maxheck: jjorsett: BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."

lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?

George Jeffersonian principles. Quality dry cleaning at a fair price.

We don't usually agree, but I have to say that was pretty damn clever.

Area ALEC Passionate Defenders of What They Imagine Jefferson to have Been.

Gonna take a wild stab here and guess you're kinda young. :)

The Jeffersons (and Norman Lear) sort of embodied everything ALEC hates, come to think of it. The entire 70's.


I was actually parodying a The Onion article wrt ALEC's mission statement. It had nothing to do with George Jefferson (I used to watch Norman Lear's sitcoms avidly when they first ran, and was an adult at the time).

/GOML
 
2013-12-05 06:22:13 PM
maxheck linked to a salon article up there... ty. from that article came the actual site and list of proposed future legislation.

one in particular i'd like to bring your attention to. it's comedy gold!
http://www.alec.org/model-legislation/resolution-on-mandatory-electr ic ity-consumer-disclosure-information/

here's two particular snippets i find most entertaining
"WHEREAS, the economic efficiencies inherent in competitive markets provide the most cost-effective compliance with environmental laws and regulations;"
and
"BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that it is the sense of this Legislature that the mandatory disclosure of such information on customer bills is undue interference in the operation of competitive markets, and impedes the efficient operation of the market by imposing a burden on any electric supplier otherwise willing to offer their products and services to consumers of the state of {insert state}."

In effect, they are proposing state legislators to petition the government to remove federal mandates enforcing disclosure on electricity bills, because it interferes with the companies' ability to operate their businesses at peak efficiency, and consumers will vote with their dollar anyways if electric companies aren't being environmentally friendly (which they will disclose on a voluntary basis rather than a federally mandated basis).
 
2013-12-05 07:49:28 PM

BMulligan: Jackson Herring: It was discovered in Florida -- when Republican State Representative Rachel Burgin introduced legislation in the state House back in November that -- oops -- still included ALEC's mission statement at the top of the bill, reading: "Whereas it is the mission of the American Legislative Exchange Council to advance Jeffersonian principles..."


lol take off your tinfoil hats, libtardatron 3000s

Jefferson? The agrarian, anti-industrial Jefferson? That guy?


You know, if it were 1787 and I had to chose to shoot one of the Founding Fathers, it would be a toss-up between Jefferson and Aaron Burr.  If I thought a live Hamilton could counter the damage done in Jefferson's name by Burr and others, Aaron would get the headshot.
 
2013-12-05 08:07:41 PM

Hobodeluxe: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]

yeah because the Kochs are just two brothers. the unions represent all the union workers in America.
to really get a good idea of what the unions are up against you'd need to compare all the CEOs' and Corporations' money to the unions.
and you'll never know that amount because it's secret.
it's protected dark money that the politicians have made sure you'll never know who is paying them


And the Union Thugs are getting their way on every single issue, while the Koch brothers can't get the time of day in Washington.
 
2013-12-05 08:40:22 PM

BMulligan: Peki: Diogenes: Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know.  And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

And people think I'm being hyperbolic when I suggest the US is in the middle of a totalitarian movement a la the Nazis.

/charismatic leader. Willy-nilly enforcement of rules that grabs innocents as well as guilty, is all that's left. There's the oath of loyalty. We already have the propaganda. What else do people need to see?

Well, for starters, we haven't had a good genocide around here in quite some time.


Hmm. . .

Have you been missing all the shootings? Or how the GOP have been targetting women and minorities? Hell, women start keeling over because they can't get an abortion to prevent a much more traumatic miscarriage, and there's your genocide.

/you think they wouldn't have learned to be a little more subtle about it? Easier to take away the right to vote and make you so poor you can't buy decent legal protection. Fark genocide, the people will get so depressed they'll off themselves.
 
2013-12-05 09:33:21 PM
Diogenes: That's about all you need to know. And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job. this life

and I'm not being some vile liberal calling for the killing of conservatives; any legislator (openly) willing to put an organization ahead of their public duties should have their life functions terminated. MDK.
 
2013-12-05 10:08:41 PM
karnal

I know you've already been beaten like a rented mule for your boobies, and I know you're just trolling, but I wanted to point out that the Kochs are contributing approx. 200,000 times more per member than the other groups combined. I have no sympathy.
 
2013-12-06 08:08:01 AM

ultraholland: karnal

I know you've already been beaten like a rented mule for your boobies, and I know you're just trolling, but I wanted to point out that the Kochs are contributing approx. 200,000 times more per member than the other groups combined. I have no sympathy.



...and that gives me faith in the hope of a better tomorrow.
 
2013-12-06 10:20:25 AM

JimmyTheHutt: APS and SRP in Phoenix are already charging people with solar panels a fee.


Link please? <--- Not sarcastic, genuinely curious.
 
2013-12-06 10:24:34 AM

spickus: JimmyTheHutt: APS and SRP in Phoenix are already charging people with solar panels a fee.

Link please? <--- Not sarcastic, genuinely curious.


APS
 
2013-12-06 10:35:34 AM

karnal: spickus: JimmyTheHutt: APS and SRP in Phoenix are already charging people with solar panels a fee.

Link please? <--- Not sarcastic, genuinely curious.

APS


Good read, thank you but did it pass?
 
2013-12-06 10:38:54 AM
 
2013-12-06 07:13:09 PM

Mentat: karnal: [fc09.deviantart.net image 850x555]


Uh we have these things call financial records, unlike Beck who only has baseless speculation and hyperbole.

Dollars can be tracked, ho.
 
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