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(Talking Points Memo)   GOP: Okay, so *maybe* healthcare.gov is working, people are getting healthcare that were previously denied it and Obamacare has brought a better healthcare system to the country. But really, what has Obamacare done for *us*?   (talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 213
    More: Amusing, obamacare, GOP  
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2256 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:27 AM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-05 08:26:30 AM
So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.
 
2013-12-05 08:30:34 AM

EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.



http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/19 21 32-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment


I'm betting this will be the next week's narrative.  "OMG death spiral young people aren't signing up"
 
2013-12-05 08:30:44 AM

EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


whynotboth?.jpg

/with just a dash of IRS!
 
2013-12-05 08:31:48 AM

DarnoKonrad: EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/19 21 32-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment


I'm betting this will be the next week's narrative.  "OMG death spiral young people aren't signing up"


Not surprising, since young white males are the ones who would see their rates go up the most.
 
2013-12-05 08:35:35 AM
The Aqueduct?
 
2013-12-05 08:35:54 AM

xanadian: DarnoKonrad: EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/19 21 32-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment


I'm betting this will be the next week's narrative.  "OMG death spiral young people aren't signing up"

Not surprising, since young white males are the ones who would see their rates go up the most.



white huh?
 
2013-12-05 08:36:11 AM
Well, there is the bigger bonuses to insurance corp execs who all donate to Repube congresscritters...
 
2013-12-05 08:36:25 AM
"We're more concerned with the policies that people lost after the pResident told them they could keep them. So to them we offer... uhhh... We're going to fix this by... uhhh... Well, you see, this new bill will... uhhh... Hey, did you see that black mother f*cker's dog knock over that baby yesterday?!"
 
2013-12-05 08:36:27 AM
Them goalposts are startin to look mighty worn down on the bottom ends.
 
2013-12-05 08:37:26 AM

EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


 Funny you should mention that....

 Senate Minority Whip John Cornyn on December 2nd: ""Since the terrible tragedy that took four American lives in Benghazi, we've had difficulty, to put it mildly, trying to get to the bottom of this," the second-ranking Senate Republican said during a Google Hangout session he held while the Senate is on recess.  "Now the goal is to talk to the Benghazi survivors - people who were actually there who could tell the truth and expose what happened and hold the people responsible accountable.  This has been a cover up from the very beginning."

And Capitaine Issa on the very same day: "The House's chief investigator says the FBI is stonewalling his inquiry into whether the agency and the Internal Revenue Service targeted conservative group True the Vote for special scrutiny, and Rep. Darrell E. Issa is now threatening subpoenas to pry loose the information from FBI Director James B. Comey Jr.

Mr. Issa, California Republican, and Rep. Jim Jordan, Ohio Republican, are leading the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee's IRS inquiry. They also said the FBI is refusing to turn over any documents related to its own investigation into the IRS, which began in the days after an auditor's report revealed the tax agency had improperly targeted tea party groups for special scrutiny."

 
2013-12-05 08:38:06 AM
This is blood libel.
 
2013-12-05 08:38:25 AM
Their arguments are becoming more canned and abstract, and they still haven't even attempted to offer a credible alternative.
 
2013-12-05 08:39:00 AM
Don't worry.  Tomorrow they'll find something new to seize upon and go nutzoid about.

/and chances are i'll be able to add it to the Big Spiffy List
 
2013-12-05 08:39:11 AM
- Shock?  Check.
- Denial?  Check.
- Anger?  Check.
- Bargaining?  Check.
- Guilt?  HAHAHAHAHAHA!  The GOP have guilt?  hahahahaa...hehe....Sociopaths never feel guilt.
- Depression?  Yup...here we are...almost there...
 
2013-12-05 08:39:12 AM
I'll say one thing for the fake-independent Republican shills on Fark: they let us know what the talking point du jour is before TPM does.

Also, nice use of the "amusing" tag!
 
KIA
2013-12-05 08:40:13 AM
Working as in "processing payments to insurers" working? Because, last time I checked, insurance policies have this neat little clause that says they don't mean jack shiat unless the first premium payment is made.

So... how many people have written that check?
 
2013-12-05 08:40:20 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Their arguments are becoming more canned and abstract, and they still haven't even attempted to offer a credible alternative.


Under their plan you can choose which street you die on.
 
2013-12-05 08:41:40 AM

KIA: Working as in "processing payments to insurers" working? Because, last time I checked, insurance policies have this neat little clause that says they don't mean jack shiat unless the first premium payment is made.

So... how many people have written that check?


The winner of the hundred meter dash: The Goalposts!
 
2013-12-05 08:43:39 AM

beantowndog: HotWingConspiracy: Their arguments are becoming more canned and abstract, and they still haven't even attempted to offer a credible alternative.

Under their plan you can choose which street you die on.


You have the freedom to choose from a few select streets in the barrio and ghetto, avenues and boulevards in rich white neighborhood are not available for dying.
 
2013-12-05 08:44:45 AM

KIA: Working as in "processing payments to insurers" working? Because, last time I checked, insurance policies have this neat little clause that says they don't mean jack shiat unless the first premium payment is made.

So... how many people have written that check?


A few, but that is not surprising because most people aren't going to pay before they coverage starts.
 
2013-12-05 08:47:52 AM
*gets popcorn ready*


Now to just sit back and wait for the Fark Independents (TM) and 'Pubbie shills to show up.
 
2013-12-05 08:48:15 AM
Well, it was a giant monetary giveaway to the insurance industry.  Republicans like blatant corporate welfare that privatizes profits at the expense of the taxpayer, right?  They always have before.
 
2013-12-05 08:48:40 AM

xanadian: DarnoKonrad: EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/19 21 32-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment


I'm betting this will be the next week's narrative.  "OMG death spiral young people aren't signing up"

Not surprising, since young white males are the ones who would see their rates go up the most.


Given their average and median income levels, and the existence of the often (purposely) overlooked subsidies, and the fact that younger people in their 20s or late teens get an additional subsidy... nope, but nice try.
 
2013-12-05 08:50:01 AM

KIA: Working as in "processing payments to insurers" working? Because, last time I checked, insurance policies have this neat little clause that says they don't mean jack shiat unless the first premium payment is made.

So... how many people have written that check?


On policies that start in January? I'm going to guess very few.
 
2013-12-05 08:53:30 AM

Jim_Callahan: Republicans like blatant corporate welfare that privatizes profits at the expense of the taxpayer, right?


Yeah, when THEY get credit for it.
 
2013-12-05 08:54:15 AM
A Cave Geek:
- Guilt?  HAHAHAHAHAHA!  The GOP have guilt?  hahahahaa...hehe....Sociopaths never feel guilt.

They don't feel guilt, they feel shame at being exposed, which leads to shock, denial, and anger, and the whole process starts over again, only more bitter and vindictive than before.
 
2013-12-05 09:00:49 AM

DarnoKonrad: xanadian: DarnoKonrad: EvilEgg: So do we go back to Benghazi now?

Or do we keep screaming it isn't working, because the majority of people who were so worked up about it had no need to visit the site so they'll never know.


http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/19 21 32-young-invincibles-spurn-enrollment


I'm betting this will be the next week's narrative.  "OMG death spiral young people aren't signing up"

Not surprising, since young white males are the ones who would see their rates go up the most.


white huh?


Whoops!  The article I was talking about doesn't mention that.  Blargh!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/11/04/49-state-analys is -obamacare-to-increase-individual-market-premiums-by-avg-of-41-subsidi es-flow-to-elderly/

I'll...uh...just go over there, now... :P

/It was featured on FARK a while back
//and there were some who argued about the methodology of coming up with this 41% figure, anyway
 
2013-12-05 09:04:04 AM
Every single problem the GOP currently has with the ACA is an argument in favor of single payer.  And RomneyCare/ObamaCare is precisely the system they invented to avoid the "horrors" of "socialized medicine".

They're beyond going full circle and are now making regular orbits around Planet Stupid.
 
2013-12-05 09:06:35 AM

toomuchwhargarbl: A Cave Geek:
- Guilt?  HAHAHAHAHAHA!  The GOP have guilt?  hahahahaa...hehe....Sociopaths never feel guilt.

They don't feel guilt, they feel shame at being exposed, which leads to shock, denial, and anger, and the whole process starts over again, only more bitter and vindictive than before.


MORE bitter and vindictive? How would that even be possible?
 
2013-12-05 09:09:25 AM
What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.
 
2013-12-05 09:10:59 AM
Just like I said they would. People who thought the website would seriously be an issue in 2014 are victims of media reporting short-term trends as if they would continue forever.
 
2013-12-05 09:17:42 AM

Jim_Callahan: Well, it was a giant monetary giveaway to the insurance industry.  Republicans like blatant corporate welfare that privatizes profits at the expense of the taxpayer, right?  They always have before.


The issue is that it doesn't give enough unfettered money away to the industry execs.  I really think a lot of the opposition to the ACA is that it curtailed some of huge profits and executive bonuses in the insurance industry, and that's why so many of the corporate and GOP elite are upset about it.  Because some already rich people make slightly less money so the poors can have a chance at a slightly better life.
The tea partiers are mad about it because "the president is a demmy-crat/blah guy!"


/...the aristocrats!
 
2013-12-05 09:17:47 AM

KIA: this neat little clause that says they don't mean jack shiat unless the first premium payment is made.


what the fark is this shiat
 
2013-12-05 09:18:33 AM

Jim_Callahan: Well, it was a giant monetary giveaway to the insurance industry.  Republicans like blatant corporate welfare that privatizes profits at the expense of the taxpayer, right?  They always have before.


A few thoughts on this talking point:

First off, there is the obvious politics of the possible angle:  The makeup of the congress, as well as the vested interests (i.e. the large private insurance industry) were such that it was very unlikely, verging on impossible, that a European-style single-payer insurance program was going to be enacted in this legislation.

But further, imagine if we had decided to create, in one fell swoop, such a system.  There would be a huge disruption in a $600-800B industry--likely resulting in, at least temporarily, job losses and other financial impact, especially in the states and municipalities where the large companies making up this industry are headquartered.

By leveraging this in-place infrastructure, the current bill avoids a lot of this pain, as well as vests the existing market players in its success.  And, as long as the overall goal is met, it seems a secondary concern that some wealthy individuals are making out.  Keep in mind, too, that the insurance agencies did have to give up profit potential and some freedom of action in order to get this "handout".   And, also, nearly every time the US government makes a policy or buying decision, some private entity makes out.  That's just the way of the world. Until and unless this country converts to a fully socialistic model, there will always be a reliance on private enterprise to execute some significant portion of the government's action:  i.e. roads and military bases are built by private contractors.

Not to say having an industry-written bill, enacted by private entities doesn't hold risks.  There is a strong pressure for the policies of such a program to bend away from public benefit to private benefit.  I am sure any number of particular items in this particular legislation could be held up as examples of this sort of private incentive.  And this is why I feel there should be a strong effort to get a public option in place.  However, as the sausage was made, that particular ingredient was left out.

Now the foregoing is just some highfaluting thinkstuff.  To get back to Fark-brand discourse, yeah, it is the highest form of cynicism for GOP supporters to come into these threads and use the "handout to private industry" line.  This legislation simply represents "privatization" of a government function--which is a cherished GOP ideal.

The only reason why this is different in this case is
1. This is a de-facto acknowledgement that health care is a government function
2. Obama
 
2013-12-05 09:23:35 AM
Obamacare greenlights for Thursday: 1 (so far)

/Is there literally anything else to say?
 
2013-12-05 09:26:03 AM

swaniefrmreddeer: What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.


What about people losing Medicaid due to their governors hating Obama? I notice no one cares if THEY lose coverage...
 
2013-12-05 09:29:22 AM

Triple Oak: Obamacare greenlights for Thursday: 1 (so far)

/Is there literally anything else to say?


Why did Obamacare attack Benghazi?
 
2013-12-05 09:30:03 AM

Triple Oak: Obamacare greenlights for Thursday: 1 (so far)

/Is there literally anything else to say?


Not really.  I'm getting kind of tired of them, too.
 
2013-12-05 09:33:39 AM

Triple Oak: Obamacare greenlights for Thursday: 1 (so far)

/Is there literally anything else to say?


Hey, I know.  Why don't we talk about why people are still talking about it?
 
2013-12-05 09:37:18 AM

Dr Dreidel: swaniefrmreddeer: What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.

What about people losing Medicaid due to their governors hating Obama? I notice no one cares if THEY lose coverage...


There's room in the GOP tent for everybody, as long as you're a rich, white, old man.
 
2013-12-05 09:37:22 AM

Dr Dreidel: swaniefrmreddeer: What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.

What about people losing Medicaid due to their governors hating Obama? I notice no one cares if THEY lose coverage...


You mean those people who weren't covered before the medicaid expansion?
 
2013-12-05 09:38:21 AM

Triple Oak: Obamacare greenlights for Thursday: 1 (so far)

/Is there literally anything else to say?


I asked one of the chronic doom-cryers this: Since just about everybody in these threads is going to end up actually doing the registration thing, and getting insurance, they are going to experience whatever they experience IN REALITY.
What is the point of trying to convince them that the experience is going to be anything other than what it turns out to be? All the talk in the world isn't going to convince even a mildly level headed individual that what they have experienced is what some clown on the Internet tells them it is, and not what they actually experience.
I know I'm inclined that way - the more other people insist that I am supposed to see something their way, sight unseen, just based on their word, the less inclined I feel to do so. The people I find the most trust worthy are those who suggest that I check it out for myself - they aren't trying to hide anything from me.
 
2013-12-05 09:43:29 AM

Graffito: Dr Dreidel: swaniefrmreddeer: What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.

What about people losing Medicaid due to their governors hating Obama? I notice no one cares if THEY lose coverage...

You mean those people who weren't covered before the medicaid expansion?*


*Not valid in Texas, Florida, Georgia, and 17 other states
 
2013-12-05 09:44:39 AM
From Popehat
((just sayin))

 http://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/videocontest Dept of Health and Human Services, which awarded Erin McDodald a "Grand Prize" for her Youtube video, "Forget the Price Tag!"


Seems like everything's about to change, in the health care industry.
When coverage expands, and they can't reject you for conditions that are pre-existing!
You're young and wild and free, but you need to stay healthy!
There's no excuse to be uninsured. Just stop for a minute and think!
You're not immuned [sic] to all disease. Take advantage of this opportunity!
Keep your mind at ease and get some security!
Don't need a lot of money, money, money!
To stay young and healthy, healthy, healthy!
We just want to make it more fair, with affordable health care.
Ain't about the, UH!, cha-ching, cha-ching.
Ain't about the, YEAH!, bling, bla-bling.
Affordable Care Act, don't worry about the price tag!
I know we're in our prime, about time we open our eyes.
We got to invest to be the healthiest! You can't put a price on life.
Why is everyone so oblivious?
Living without health care is serious!
Can we all slow down? Take time now, guarantee we'll be feelin' all right!
You're not immuned [sic] to all disease. Take advantage of this opportunity!
Keep your mind at ease and get some security!
Don't need a lot of money, money, money!
To stay young and healthy, healthy, healthy!
We just want to make it more fair, with affordable health care.
Ain't about the, UH!, cha-ching, cha-ching.
Ain't about the, YEAH!, bling, bla-bling.
Affordable Care Act, don't worry about the price tag!
 
2013-12-05 09:45:52 AM
the wealthy in america don't need obamacare.  their mice don't either.  get rid of it!    (:
 
2013-12-05 09:52:20 AM
Did the Obamacare website quit sending garbage sign up information to the insurers?

No?

Can it finally verify eligibility for subsidies and accurately tell you the subsidy amount you qualify for?

No?

Can it manage authorization for that subsidy to be paid to your insurer?

No?

Then STFU about it being "fixed".
 
2013-12-05 09:55:31 AM
Oh, look.  Looks like old faithful is back.  Gonna fill up our pikanik baskets with fresh derp.
 
2013-12-05 09:56:43 AM
Or better yet - just STFU period.
None of this talk means shiat when the reality is immediately close to hand.
 
2013-12-05 09:57:55 AM

Skleenar: Oh, look.  Looks like old faithful is back.  Gonna fill up our pikanik baskets with fresh derp.


It's the "why" of it that I find puzzling, and mildly intriguing.
 
2013-12-05 09:57:59 AM

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Graffito: Dr Dreidel: swaniefrmreddeer: What an outrage! People losing their insurance*, the GOP must stop this atrocity.

*insurance not valid if you actually get sick.

What about people losing Medicaid due to their governors hating Obama? I notice no one cares if THEY lose coverage...

You mean those people who weren't covered before the medicaid expansion?*

*Not valid in Texas, Florida, Georgia, and 17 other states


The way I see it is those folks are being left behind in our move to get everyone covered.  That is tragic, but they are not worse off than before because they didn't have healthcare coverage before the ACA (or they had a very inexpensive policy that covered nothing.)

Poor people tend to not be very good at organizing and protesting, but they should be out there marching on their state capitals and shaming their governors.
 
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