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(The New York Times)   Well austerity didn't work. Let's try that declining real wage that's so popular in America   (nytimes.com) divider line 41
    More: Fail, real wages, Southern Europe, unfair dismissal, new paths, Croatian Democratic Union, social cohesion, Social Democratic Party, CDU  
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1987 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:06 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



41 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-05 08:08:48 AM  
Copy cats.
 
2013-12-05 08:12:42 AM  
Meh.  Since when has the rise in radical political parties in Europe ever led to anything?
 
2013-12-05 08:16:19 AM  
Hopefully they realize that these policies may help them in the short term as they helped us in the 90s, they will hurt them in the long run, especially if they don't back off from them when things start to turn around.
 
2013-12-05 08:21:40 AM  
If the Jerb Creators (profits be upon them) are only creating low-wage jobs, they shouldn't be surprised when people take things into their own hands.
 
2013-12-05 08:24:18 AM  
"Our economy sucks, how can we rectify this?"

"Let's strip all worker protections, reduce the minimum wage, and give a correlating tax break for new and expanding businesses!"

*wage gap goes apeshiat and many workers can't find more than 32 hours/week of work*
 
2013-12-05 08:24:48 AM  

MindStalker: Hopefully they realize that these policies may help them in the short term as they helped us in the 90s, they will hurt them in the long run, especially if they don't back off from them when things start to turn around.


Hahahaha, nope, it's just going to be all fark the poor all the time now. Short term thinking like this only helps the rich get immediately richer, so it's all anyone will be doing for a looooooong time.
It's going to take an enormous amount of people being disenfranchised, or a lot of the greedy dying off, for any positive change to happen, and we're still a long way from that point.
 
2013-12-05 08:25:18 AM  
We'll eventually see a new iteration of organized labor, much like the slow evolution of guilds to unions, to better accommodate the service and information sectors.  But the waning participation of the work force in organized labor will not bring about a net positive for the world (unless you're part of the wealthy minority).
 
2013-12-05 08:38:29 AM  

UNC_Samurai: We'll eventually see a new iteration of organized labor, much like the slow evolution of guilds to unions, to better accommodate the service and information sectors


With the way things are going, it will probably look like this:

cdn.nextimpulsesports.com
 
2013-12-05 08:41:02 AM  
Wait for it...the neocons will be out on this thread saying "it's because they're all evil commie socialists, and don't have guns and 'murcan freedums!
 
2013-12-05 08:47:31 AM  
It get worse...

A Third of Bank Tellers Rely on Government Assistance, Study Says

Researchers from the University of California at Berkeley calculate that almost a third of all bank tellers receive some form of government assistance, according to the Washington Post. That includes $534 million for health insurance through Medicaid and coverage for low-income children, $250 million in tax credits for low and moderate earners, and more than $100 million in food stamps.

They qualify for government aid because, on average, the country's half a million tellers earn about $25,790 a year, or $12.40 an hour (if they work a 40-hour work week), according to the most recent government data. That's less than similar administrative jobs, and tellers are also more likely to be part-time employees.
 
2013-12-05 08:48:57 AM  
This is good news. We have a ready-made market for our newest exports; wage stagnation and income inequality.
 
2013-12-05 08:49:48 AM  
[grumpycat GOOD.jpg]
 
2013-12-05 08:50:42 AM  

neversubmit: It get worse...

A Third of Bank Tellers Rely on Government Assistance, Study Says

Researchers from the University of California at Berkeley calculate that almost a third of all bank tellers receive some form of government assistance, according to the Washington Post. That includes $534 million for health insurance through Medicaid and coverage for low-income children, $250 million in tax credits for low and moderate earners, and more than $100 million in food stamps.

They qualify for government aid because, on average, the country's half a million tellers earn about $25,790 a year, or $12.40 an hour (if they work a 40-hour work week), according to the most recent government data. That's less than similar administrative jobs, and tellers are also more likely to be part-time employees.


Its easy to make shiat tons of money when you are abusing the country's social safety network to subsidize artificially low wages!
/American capitalism at its finest.
 
2013-12-05 08:52:15 AM  
Germany believes the way for the periphery to recover is for them to emulate Germany's recovery model from the previous decade, ignoring that the global economy is in a completely different gear now.

My suggestion for the periphery is to instead follow the American model from the early 1940s, and build bombs to drop on German factories.
 
2013-12-05 08:52:43 AM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Its easy to make shiat tons of money when you are abusing the country's social safety network to subsidize artificially low wages!
/American capitalism at its finest.


How about this for a 'fiscal reform'?  If you are paying a wage to your employees (over 18, therefore responsible for taking care of themselves) that qualifies them for public assistance, you will be charged the full amount of that assistance.
 
MFK
2013-12-05 08:54:41 AM  

neversubmit: It get worse...

A Third of Bank Tellers Rely on Government Assistance, Study Says

Researchers from the University of California at Berkeley calculate that almost a third of all bank tellers receive some form of government assistance, according to the Washington Post. That includes $534 million for health insurance through Medicaid and coverage for low-income children, $250 million in tax credits for low and moderate earners, and more than $100 million in food stamps.

They qualify for government aid because, on average, the country's half a million tellers earn about $25,790 a year, or $12.40 an hour (if they work a 40-hour work week), according to the most recent government data. That's less than similar administrative jobs, and tellers are also more likely to be part-time employees.


OK people, this is farking ridiculous. when are we going to say enough is enough and realize that the 1%ers who are hoarding all of the money are NOT letting it trickle down to the rest of us? These farkers have gamed the system to shovel all the money to the top so bad that their own farking peons have to rely on the govt for help in order to survive. Maybe this is why the politicians and the media have us so farking focused on R vs D instead of the actual REAL problem of income inequality.
 
2013-12-05 09:06:49 AM  
It's pretty obvious to anyone who understands macroeconomics that they just didn't have *enough* austerity.
 
2013-12-05 09:14:29 AM  
MFK:
OK people, this is farking ridiculous. when are we going to say enough is enough and realize that the 1%ers who are hoarding all of the money are NOT letting it trickle down to the rest of us? These farkers have gamed the system to shovel all the money to the top so bad that their own farking peons have to rely on the govt for help in order to survive. Maybe this is why the politicians and the media have us so farking focused on R vs D instead of the actual REAL problem of income inequality.

They're not going to just give it up. It will have to be taken from them.
 
2013-12-05 09:19:12 AM  

Eddie Adams from Torrance: It's pretty obvious to anyone who understands macroeconomics that they just didn't have *enough* austerity.



I know you are being facetiious, but it's still infuriating.

At least here in the US we have large internal wealth distribution from the more wealthy urban north to the poor rural south via federal tax receipts and outlays (insert redstate welfare .jpg). Can you imagine what a shiathole Mississippi would be if they didn't get twice as many dollars flowing in from the Feds as they paid in taxes?

That's the situation in the Euro's poor periphery countries. All of the liabilities of being a common curency, none of the benefits.
 
2013-12-05 09:20:56 AM  

MFK: neversubmit: It get worse...

A Third of Bank Tellers Rely on Government Assistance, Study Says

Researchers from the University of California at Berkeley calculate that almost a third of all bank tellers receive some form of government assistance, according to the Washington Post. That includes $534 million for health insurance through Medicaid and coverage for low-income children, $250 million in tax credits for low and moderate earners, and more than $100 million in food stamps.

They qualify for government aid because, on average, the country's half a million tellers earn about $25,790 a year, or $12.40 an hour (if they work a 40-hour work week), according to the most recent government data. That's less than similar administrative jobs, and tellers are also more likely to be part-time employees.

OK people, this is farking ridiculous. when are we going to say enough is enough and realize that the 1%ers who are hoarding all of the money are NOT letting it trickle down to the rest of us? These farkers have gamed the system to shovel all the money to the top so bad that their own farking peons have to rely on the govt for help in order to survive. Maybe this is why the politicians and the media have us so farking focused on R vs D instead of the actual REAL problem of income inequality.


Winner winner, food stamp dinner.*

*Which has been severely cut.  Enjoy your can of beans for the week.
 
2013-12-05 09:52:15 AM  
Yes well that is what happens when you let businessmen run your economy. These job creators love Microeconomics and short run profits over Macro Macroeconomics and long term gains. Any idiot who thinks a businessman can run an economy better than an economists is well a farking moron.
 
2013-12-05 09:55:47 AM  
American Labor policy is spreading, but American labor policy is not and will not be sustainable in Europe for any extended amount of time.  There are too many left-radical elements and left-center elements in Europe and involved in their respective country's political climate.  The labor unions are way more militant and the populations of a lot of Europe are class aware.

America on the other hand has neutered unions, has stifled leftism and has left us no choice but to play by the rules of the wealthy.  Americans will have to endure the bullshiat of the wealthy for quite some time before they finally wake up and start throwing their collective weight around.
 
2013-12-05 09:55:48 AM  
Meanwhile, in America, we're pushing for austerity measures. Starting with the Social Security cuts both parties are suddenly talking up.

Who knew Paul Ryan was a genius who should be emulated?
 
2013-12-05 10:14:54 AM  

A Cave Geek: Wicked Chinchilla: Its easy to make shiat tons of money when you are abusing the country's social safety network to subsidize artificially low wages!
/American capitalism at its finest.

How about this for a 'fiscal reform'?  If you are paying a wage to your employees (over 18, therefore responsible for taking care of themselves) that qualifies them for public assistance, you will be charged the full amount of that assistance.


In 2012 WalMart's profits totaled 15.7 billion. Taxpayer assistance to WalMart employees approximately 3 billion.  There are about 2.1 million employees. That's about  $1,428 dollars each. Just enough to get a family of two to the federal poverty level.  But I don't think the shareholders would accept a mere 12.7 billion in profit.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:47 AM  
Sorry. I should have included $7.25 fed minimum wage + $1,428 = fed poverty level for two.
 
2013-12-05 10:27:16 AM  
Seems to be working well for Germany (and Japan).  Meanwhile, America is running fast toward France/Greece style failurism.
 
2013-12-05 10:36:02 AM  
Let's see......this is a tough one.   not really.


when the so called "free press" is owned by big business/wealthy, then the 'news' is skewed to reflect what they want the little people to know.

they can convince the little people that Unions are going to ruin them economically and that keeping the minimum wage down is good for America.  the little people are going to swallow that garbage.

and the big people are going to laugh all the way to their overseas tax shelter bank accounts.  hon!  we can get that extra porsche little suzy wanted!  isn't life good!


real wages haven't changed much in 30 years.   yet, worker productivity has skyrocketed.  prices for goods and services have skyrocketed too.

i wonder where all that extra wealth the workers have been producing has been going???  hummmm......just can't figure out where all that extra loot went.  i'm that dumb.....


the sad facts are that Capital will continue to take more and more from the bottom 95% of the population, and the wealth gap will grow and the richest 5% will continue to get richer at the bottom 95%'s expense.

i wonder where that trajectory will lead us down the road.................hummm.........that's a tough one too.


as long as our Press and News is Owned by the beautiful people, we won't be getting the real news and this situation will continue to worsen.


ain't Freedom great!
 
2013-12-05 10:49:18 AM  
Hmmm ... maybe it's time to rethink this whole "Find a Master to employ you for wage, or live in squalid poverty" paradigm.    Considering that a) Master has, or soon will, automated your job and doesn't need you around anymore and b) as we trend towards a post scarcity society you really don't need that much wage.    Master mostly just need you around to consume, and spends a lot of time and resources finding ways to convince you that you need to pay 20000% more for his bottled municipal water than you can get from your tap.
 
2013-12-05 10:51:32 AM  

InmanRoshi: Hmmm ... maybe it's time to rethink this whole "Find a Master to employ you for wage, or live in squalid poverty" paradigm.    Considering that a) Master has, or soon will, automated your job and doesn't need you around anymore and b) as we trend towards a post scarcity society you really don't need that much wage.    Master mostly just need you around to consume, and spends a lot of time and resources finding ways to convince you that you need to pay 20000% more for his bottled municipal water than you can get from your tap.


You're entering dangerous anarchists/socialist/communist territory..... Be careful!
 
2013-12-05 12:42:27 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-05 12:43:05 PM  
"There are signs of change, though. German elections earlier this year forced the Christian Democratic Union of Chancellor Merkel into a governing coalition with the Social Democratic Party. Part of the deal to form a government included introducing Germany's first minimum wage, at 8.5 euros an hour, or about $11.50.  "


so even the austerity kings make us look like morons stuck in a poverty-best-part-forever mentality.
 
2013-12-05 01:01:13 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Seems to be working well for Germany (and Japan).  Meanwhile, America is running fast toward France/Greece style failurism.


France? France is one of the healthier and most balanced economies in the world.
It's account balance is near zero, so it isn't hurting the Euro periphery like Germany is.
It's workers are more productive than Germany's.
It's debt to GDP ratio has fallen sharply since 2010, and should be stable for the next five years.
It's demographics (actual population growth) will have it exceed Germany's economy in a couple of decades.


Germany seems to think that every country is supposed to export it's way to prosperity.
Show me a model where every country in the world is somehow a net exporter.
Hint, you can't.
Someone has to buy what is being produced, and that usually is the side with massive positive account balances, like Germany.
The best thing that Germany could do for the Euro economy is to encourage its citizens to live it up. Have them buy Italian luxury goods, Spanish wine, vacations in Greece. Germans would feel as rich as they are, and the trade imbalance correction would strongly mitigate the fiscal problems in the periphery.
 
2013-12-05 01:43:57 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Kangaroo_Ralph: Seems to be working well for Germany (and Japan).  Meanwhile, America is running fast toward France/Greece style failurism.

France? France is one of the healthier and most balanced economies in the world.
It's account balance is near zero, so it isn't hurting the Euro periphery like Germany is.
It's workers are more productive than Germany's.
It's debt to GDP ratio has fallen sharply since 2010, and should be stable for the next five years.
It's demographics (actual population growth) will have it exceed Germany's economy in a couple of decades.


Germany seems to think that every country is supposed to export it's way to prosperity.
Show me a model where every country in the world is somehow a net exporter.
Hint, you can't.
Someone has to buy what is being produced, and that usually is the side with massive positive account balances, like Germany.
The best thing that Germany could do for the Euro economy is to encourage its citizens to live it up. Have them buy Italian luxury goods, Spanish wine, vacations in Greece. Germans would feel as rich as they are, and the trade imbalance correction would strongly mitigate the fiscal problems in the periphery.


simple, aliens.
 
2013-12-05 01:45:37 PM  

Sock Ruh Tease: UNC_Samurai: We'll eventually see a new iteration of organized labor, much like the slow evolution of guilds to unions, to better accommodate the service and information sectors

With the way things are going, it will probably look like this:

[cdn.nextimpulsesports.com image 850x352]


Holy crap I laughed so hard I had a coughing fit.

The look on Brad Pitt's face is  just quizzical enough to make that hysterical (think the dog ? pics). With the accompanying caption: How do you  dem apples?
 
2013-12-05 01:52:36 PM  

MindStalker: Hopefully they realize that these policies may help them in the short term as they helped us in the 90s, they will hurt them in the long run, especially if they don't back off from them when things start to turn around.


Nah. By the time anyone realizes that anything is wrong, the rich of the country will have too much wealth and power for the government to disobey them, or even realize there's a point of view that isn't that of the well-to-do. It's what already happened here, and what's happening quickly there, with Germany intentionally pulling the rest of Europe down with it.
 
2013-12-05 04:07:18 PM  
So they are saying that socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money? Taxing the rich to pay the poor to sit at home and do nothing won't help, but changing the inheritance laws would. A significant cap on the amount that could be left to heirs who did nothing to earn it would break up and loose a lot of the close held wealth. It's your's while you are alive and using it, you can give it to whoever you want, while you are alive. After you are dead and gone YOU have no use for it.
 
2013-12-05 04:39:30 PM  

ex-nuke: So they are saying that socialism works fine until you run out of other people's money?


Anyone who uses a Thatcher quote deserves a cock punch.
 
2013-12-05 05:43:24 PM  

Wicked Chinchilla: Its easy to make shiat tons of money when you are abusing the country's social safety network to subsidize artificially low wages!
/American capitalism at its finest.


Yup. It's sad that so few people see how they're paying, in the form of tax dollars, for companies' stonewalling of any meaningful wage increases. Every now and then you can explain it to someone - "Dude, if people at Wal-Mart earned a living wage they would no longer qualify for social services" - and you'll see a light bulb pop above their head. Sadly, most will defend whatever wildly profitable company with whatever Fox or the dumber corners of the internet told them to repeat that day.

Here in New Orleans, local fast food and other businesses were hiring well above minimum wage because there was no one around to reopen the stores after Katrina. They still profited handsomely, so don't tell me that a reasonable wage is poison to Job Creators. And if your business nets so little profit that you can't shoulder a wage hike, chances are you're too precarious to stay afloat for long, anyway.
 
2013-12-05 09:36:06 PM  

FarkedOver: Anyone who uses a Thatcher quote deserves a cock punch.


No worse than one that uses Marx.
 
2013-12-06 07:33:19 AM  

Cubicle Jockey: Germany seems to think that every country is supposed to export it's way to prosperity.
Show me a model where every country in the world is somehow a net exporter.
Hint, you can't.
Someone has to buy what is being produced, and that usually is the side with massive positive account balances, like Germany.
The best thing that Germany could do for the Euro economy is to encourage its citizens to live it up. Have them buy Italian luxury goods, Spanish wine, vacations in Greece. Germans would feel as rich as they are, and the trade imbalance correction would strongly mitigate the fiscal problems in the periphery.


Germany's hypocrisy and blindness is staggering. They benefited from and encouraged the very policies in southern Europe that are now causing all the problems. But they pretend as if it's merely a question of virtuous vs. corrupt countries. So, they say they have very little real duty to help out the countries suffering from those policies.
 
2013-12-06 09:34:56 AM  

HeadLever: FarkedOver: Anyone who uses a Thatcher quote deserves a cock punch.

No worse than one that uses Marx.


And who did that in this thread? How is this relevant? Oh you're just manufacturing something to argue about. Ok, carry on good sir.
 
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