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(Talking Points Memo)   Inside the budget deal that has no farking chance of making it to the floor, let alone passing   (talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Budget Control Act  
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1081 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:00 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



42 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2013-12-05 08:04:42 AM  
Why Paul Ryan is allowed anywhere near money decisions, we may never know.
 
2013-12-05 08:09:44 AM  

Alphax: Why Paul Ryan is allowed anywhere near money decisions, we may never know.


because compared to the other Republicans in Congress, he is a Mensa meeting when it comes to budgetary matters

seriously, think about that. Imagine what would happen if we had to have a GOP say in the budget and had someone worse than Ryan working on it?
 
2013-12-05 08:13:04 AM  
He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).
 
2013-12-05 08:15:35 AM  
We can always rein in foreign aid, end oil company subsidies, and severely restrict (or halt) tax exemptions for churches. And maybe let some of our allies look after their own defense.

I didn't RTFA, but I'm sure all that is in there somewhere.
 
2013-12-05 08:20:56 AM  
pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".


Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.
 
2013-12-05 08:23:04 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".

Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.


Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.
 
2013-12-05 08:25:38 AM  

Alphax: Why Paul Ryan is allowed anywhere near money decisions, we may never know.


Because people believe in him. That's a long article that can basically be summed up as: Gingrich's conservative sweep in the 90's took out a lot of old-timer conservatives that were policy wonks or had institutional knowledge of doing economic policy in Washington. Ryan stepped up and asserted he is great on economics and there were no longer any Republicans smart enough to point out that he isn't. Now that he has the rep people will just assume it's true forever.
 
2013-12-05 08:27:37 AM  
fark Paul Ryan, fark him right in his weird, Howdy Doody face.
 
2013-12-05 08:32:14 AM  
Possibly i

pkellmey: Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".

Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.


I just looked up some possibly interesting trivia:
7 accountants in the House and 2 in the Senate.
81 educators (68 in the House, 13 in the Senate)
 
2013-12-05 08:33:34 AM  

pkellmey: Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".

Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.


Antonin Scalia graduated from Harvard Law.  Samuel Alito graduated from Princeton and Yale.  Grover Norquist has a Harvard MBA.  A quality education degree does not prevent people from having absolutely reprehensible political ideas.
 
2013-12-05 08:36:04 AM  

pkellmey: Possibly ipkellmey: Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".

Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.

I just looked up some possibly interesting trivia:
7 accountants in the House and 2 in the Senate.
81 educators (68 in the House, 13 in the Senate)


And let's also remember that the Republicans that say the most idiotic things with regards to women's health issues are often doctors.
 
2013-12-05 08:38:26 AM  

odinsposse: Alphax: Why Paul Ryan is allowed anywhere near money decisions, we may never know.

Because people believe in him. That's a long article that can basically be summed up as: Gingrich's conservative sweep in the 90's took out a lot of old-timer conservatives that were policy wonks or had institutional knowledge of doing economic policy in Washington. Ryan stepped up and asserted he is great on economics and there were no longer any Republicans smart enough to point out that he isn't. Now that he has the rep people will just assume it's true forever.


Paul Ryan is the representative of an economic philosophy.  It's not that he is any kind of brilliant thinker or economic genius.  Let's face it.  How many Washington politicians really are brilliant thinkers period?  Paul Ryan is a very good spokesman for the traditional supply-side economics philosophy.  He's stumbled somewhat recently, but I wouldn't count him out.  The guy knows how to work a room and a crowd.

This is in no way an endorsement of the underlying economics mind you.  Supply side is deeply flawed and inherently slanted to the wealthy.  But you have to acknowledge the skill Paul Ryan has in conveying the GOP viewpoint.  Even as a Democrat I can appreciate that.
 
2013-12-05 08:45:40 AM  
pkellmey:

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.

Agreed, I think we should elect good students from Engineering Colleges @ State Universities.  They
are some of the best problem solvers I've ever worked with.
 
2013-12-05 08:48:01 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.

Agreed, I think we should elect good students from Engineering Colleges @ State Universities.  They
are some of the best problem solvers I've ever worked with.


We need Joe the Plumber. Plumbers know how to fix things.
 
2013-12-05 08:48:47 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:  He has an economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

"Murray received her Bachelor of Arts degree in physical education from Washington State University in 1972. She was a preschool teacher for several years and taught a parenting class at Shoreline Community College from 1984 to 1987.".

Careful, your hypocrite is showing.

They call it The People's House for a reason.


I just looked her up,and am pleasantly surprised that she is not the child of career politicians.  In fact, her life story is pretty much exactly what a lot of "born on third base and think they hit a triple" republicans claim their backgrounds are like.
 
2013-12-05 08:57:54 AM  
Great_Milenko:   I just looked her up,and am pleasantly surprised that she is not the child of career politicians.  In fact, her life story is pretty much exactly what a lot of "born on third base and think they hit a triple" republicans claim their backgrounds are like.

s3.amazonaws.com

15 yds., for Bootstrapping
 
2013-12-05 08:59:14 AM  

pkellmey: He has an

home economics degree from Oxford (Ohio).

More likely.
 
2013-12-05 09:30:47 AM  
House Republican leaders support the Ryan-Murray framework, but they've been burned by their right flank before.

Democrats, meanwhile, will likely fall in line behind any deal Murray strikes.


So in other words, Boehner et al. like, in theory, the plans advanced and do genuinely wish they could vote for them, but you see it's just so hard with all these other more conservative representatives who don't like the plan, so no we won't bring it to the floor.
And Democrats feel that when they send someone to negotiate in good faith, they should stand behind the deal that is so negotiated unless it is as one-sided as a contract with Microsoft circa 1996.
 
2013-12-05 09:41:50 AM  

RminusQ: House Republican leaders support the Ryan-Murray framework, but they've been burned by their right flank before.

Democrats, meanwhile, will likely fall in line behind any deal Murray strikes.

So in other words, Boehner et al. like, in theory, the plans advanced and do genuinely wish they could vote for them, but you see it's just so hard with all these other more conservative representatives who don't like the plan, so no we won't bring it to the floor.
And Democrats feel that when they send someone to negotiate in good faith, they should stand behind the deal that is so negotiated unless it is as one-sided as a contract with Microsoft circa 1996.


Yes. This is what has happened with EVERY compromise deal. The Democrats have negotiated in good faith, and the Republican leadership torpedoed it so that their caucus wouldn't get primaried for working with the libby lib libs.
 
2013-12-05 10:01:59 AM  

Rhino_man: The Democrats have negotiated in good faith


The Democrats are pushing for entitlement cuts. Just like Paul Ryan always did.

Except, as always, it was a bad thing when the Republicans did it.
 
2013-12-05 10:48:19 AM  

BullBearMS: Rhino_man: The Democrats have negotiated in good faith

The Democrats are pushing for entitlement cuts. Just like Paul Ryan always did.

Except, as always, it was a bad thing when the Republicans did it.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-05 11:24:47 AM  
 
2013-12-05 11:32:33 AM  

BullBearMS: Rhino_man: The Democrats are pushing for entitlement cuts.

President Barack Obama told Senate Democrats that they should be open to changes in entitlement programs to achieve a long-term budget deal, according to several lawmakers who attended a meeting with him on Capitol Hill today.

Hey! I'll bet this suddenly seems like a great idea!

/To Obama shills


I'll ignore that the article is 9 monthes old and simply say this. It's a bad idea no matter who suggests it, and no matter what letter is after their name.

But go on complaining about Obama shills.
 
2013-12-05 11:35:02 AM  

BullBearMS: Rhino_man: The Democrats are pushing for entitlement cuts.

President Barack Obama told Senate Democrats that they should be open to changes in entitlement programs to achieve a long-term budget deal, according to several lawmakers who attended a meeting with him on Capitol Hill today.

Hey! I'll bet this suddenly seems like a great idea!

/To Obama shills


No, it's not a good idea. But saying "You should be open to X if it's what it takes to get a deal" is not the same thing as "pushing for X". It is in fact, the very farking point of negotiations and compromise to be willing to accept things that you do not approve but which the other side does, so that they may do the same in return.
 
2013-12-05 12:05:31 PM  
 
2013-12-05 12:16:02 PM  

BullBearMS: grumpfuff: 'll ignore that the article is 9 monthes old

LOL. It doesn't count because he's been doing it for some time now?



So you missed the rest of my post, where I said I think it's a bad idea, no matter who does it? In other words, I disagree with Obama that this is a position he should take.

But yea, go on whining about shills.
 
2013-12-05 12:32:04 PM  

grumpfuff: BullBearMS: grumpfuff: 'll ignore that the article is 9 monthes old

LOL. It doesn't count because he's been doing it for some time now?


So you missed the rest of my post, where I said I think it's a bad idea, no matter who does it? In other words, I disagree with Obama that this is a position he should take.

But yea, go on whining about shills.


I didn't miss it. I simply wasn't addressing it.

If you don't want a more recent citation, then don't complain about the other one being a few months old.

It's not like there aren't plenty of news stories about how the Democrats are suddenly pushing entitlement cuts after pretending to vehemently oppose them (OMG Paul Ryan!!1!!!) in the last midterms.
 
2013-12-05 12:37:48 PM  

BullBearMS: grumpfuff: BullBearMS: grumpfuff: 'll ignore that the article is 9 monthes old

LOL. It doesn't count because he's been doing it for some time now?


So you missed the rest of my post, where I said I think it's a bad idea, no matter who does it? In other words, I disagree with Obama that this is a position he should take.

But yea, go on whining about shills.

I didn't miss it. I simply wasn't addressing it.

If you don't want a more recent citation, then don't complain about the other one being a few months old.

It's not like there aren't plenty of news stories about how the Democrats are suddenly pushing entitlement cuts after pretending to vehemently oppose them (OMG Paul Ryan!!1!!!) in the last midterms.


Well, I would imagine that would be confusing to someone who thinks all liberals and Democrats are in lock step and agree on everything.
 
2013-12-05 12:48:39 PM  

grumpfuff: Well, I would imagine that would be confusing to someone who thinks all liberals and Democrats are in lock step and agree on everything.


That's interesting, since they were in lockstep about it being a bad thing if Paul Ryan did it.

Only a few years ago.

Even though Obama had already proposed those cuts in one of the prior "grand bargain" negotiations.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-12-05 12:54:15 PM  

BullBearMS: grumpfuff: Well, I would imagine that would be confusing to someone who thinks all liberals and Democrats are in lock step and agree on everything.

That's interesting, since they were in lockstep about it being a bad thing if Paul Ryan did it.


Does that include the 12 who supported Ryan's last budget?

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/04/10/paul-ryan-a-dozen-democrats-ha ve -told-me-they-support-my-plan-with-ron-wyden-to-reform-medicare/ 

Or, maybe, just maybe, the reason Democrats didn't support it had more to do with stuff besides entitlement cuts? Like how anyone with actual intelligence looked at Ryan's plans, laughed, then said "Oh wait, you're serious?"
 
2013-12-05 12:57:21 PM  
TFA: There would be no cuts to safety-net programs like Medicare or Social Security, a Republican goal, and no tax code revenue by closing loopholes, a Democratic goal.

Sigh.  Not that I wanted cuts to Medicare or Social Security, but I thought revising the tax code was something BOTH sides were eager to do.
 
2013-12-05 01:07:40 PM  

grumpfuff: Does that include the 12 who supported Ryan's last budget?


But, but, but... There were a couple of Blue Dogs! Who lost their seats in the last midterms!

That's slightly different than the leader of the party pushing for entitlement cuts they pretended to oppose quite recently.

Or Senator Durbin appearing on Fox news to talk up Social Security cuts as part of a "grand bargain" quite recently.
 
2013-12-05 01:12:42 PM  

BullBearMS: grumpfuff: Does that include the 12 who supported Ryan's last budget?

But, but, but... There were a couple of Blue Dogs! Who lost their seats in the last midterms!


I didn't make that argument, someone else did. You claimed no Democrats supported him. I provided a link that showed there were some.

Now, if you want to argue that Paul Ryan is a known liar, that's a different story, and something we can agree on.

BullBearMS: That's slightly different than the leader of the party pushing for entitlement cuts they pretended to oppose quite recently.


Saying "Hey guys, we need a bargain, don't discount this option entirely if it means getting a deal," is hardly the same as pushing for it.

BullBearMS: Or Senator Durbin appearing on Fox news to talk up Social Security cuts as part of a "grand bargain" quite recently.


See above. That is the nature of compromise. Sometimes, you have to agree to things you don't like.
 
2013-12-05 01:22:53 PM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: pkellmey:

Actually, I'm just always impressed when someone in Congress has anything other than a law degree.

Agreed, I think we should elect good students from Engineering Colleges @ State Universities.  They
are some of the best problem solvers I've ever worked with.


Sadly, politics isn't about solving problems.
 
2013-12-05 01:27:37 PM  

grumpfuff: You claimed no Democrats supported him. I provided a link that showed there were some.


You think you have proved the Democrats ran on cutting Social Security back in the 2010 midterms and not on what an ass Paul Ryan was?

dl.dropboxusercontent.com

grumpfuff: Saying "Hey guys, we need a bargain, don't discount this option entirely if it means getting a deal," is hardly the same as pushing for it.


It's the constantly pushing for it that means they are pushing for it:

Entitlement cuts are on the agenda not only for Republicans, but for the White House, which included cuts to Social Security and Medicare in its budget for the fiscal year that was supposed to start October 1st. So, the dialog in Washington will keep moving in the wrong direction: taking money out of the pockets of older Americans at a time when Social Security benefits already were cut by 1983 legislation, pensions are vanishing and many approaching retirement haven't saved enough.

Like, say, putting them in the White House budget.

grumpfuff: See above. That is the nature of compromise. Sometimes, you have to agree to things you don't like It's OK when my team does t.

 
2013-12-05 02:03:48 PM  

BullBearMS: It's OK when my team does t.


I see you continue to ignore the parts where I said I'm against the idea. I'm not giving them a pass for it. I'm just saying that's how compromise works.

I don't even know what you're trying to argue anymore though, so I don't care anymore. Have fun.
 
2013-12-05 03:22:01 PM  
The right views the sequester as its crowning achievement in the Obama era.

Funny because they said it was totally Obama's choice when the cuts went into effect.
 
2013-12-05 03:36:45 PM  

BullBearMS: grumpfuff: See above. That is the nature of compromise. Sometimes, you have to agree to things you don't like It's OK when my team does t.


NO ONE IS FARKING SAYING THAT.
 
2013-12-05 03:59:30 PM  

Corvus: The right views the sequester as its crowning achievement in the Obama era.

Funny because they said it was totally Obama's choice when the cuts went into effect.


They both want to cut entitlements and transfer that money over onto the military, because taking ten percent off the top there would cut into their wealthy donor friend's war profiteering.

dl.dropboxusercontent.com
 
2013-12-05 04:48:01 PM  
I say end government subsidization of churches. Make them pay taxes and make the money that is donated to them non tax deductible. Valid religions will fail while others will flourish. The government shouldn't be paying in order to prop up unsustainable religions. We should let the free market decide.
 
2013-12-06 04:40:24 PM  

BullBearMS: Corvus: The right views the sequester as its crowning achievement in the Obama era.

Funny because they said it was totally Obama's choice when the cuts went into effect.

They both want to cut entitlements and transfer that money over onto the military, because taking ten percent off the top there would cut into their wealthy donor friend's war profiteering.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 500x300]


No, they farking don't.  The Democrats specifically made sure that the sequester included DoD cuts because they wanted to use it as a cudgel against the Republicans.  The Republicans then tried to reinstate the DoD funding afterwards, BY MAKING FURTHER CUTS TO THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET.

There's no way you can honestly think that "If I absolutely must make cuts to social programs in order to get a deal done, I will" is the same as "I want cuts to social programs."

No human can be that stupid, not even you.
 
2013-12-06 10:13:15 PM  

Rhino_man: BullBearMS: Corvus: The right views the sequester as its crowning achievement in the Obama era.

Funny because they said it was totally Obama's choice when the cuts went into effect.

They both want to cut entitlements and transfer that money over onto the military, because taking ten percent off the top there would cut into their wealthy donor friend's war profiteering.

[dl.dropboxusercontent.com image 500x300]

No, they farking don't.  The Democrats specifically made sure that the sequester included DoD cuts because they wanted to use it as a cudgel against the Republicans.  The Republicans then tried to reinstate the DoD funding afterwards, BY MAKING FURTHER CUTS TO THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET.

There's no way you can honestly think that "If I absolutely must make cuts to social programs in order to get a deal done, I will" is the same as "I want cuts to social programs."

No human can be that stupid, not even you.


dl.dropboxusercontent.com

Entitlement cuts were in Obama's last proposed budget. It's kind of hard to pretend he doesn't support them.

As for the sequester and the military...

Earlier this week, speaking to a crowd of Marines, President Obama condemned the effects of sequestration, arguing that these dramatic cuts are "not how a great nation should be treating its military and military families." The president went on the reassure these servicemembers that he would "keep on working to get rid of the sequester." The president even went so far as to say that he is frustrated that "sometimes the very folks who say they stand with our military proudly are the same ones who are standing in the way of fixing the sequester."
 
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