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(Some Guy)   Blind resume test for the five NCAA BCS Championship contenders. I figured no one had been fighting over this for like, an hour, so what the heck, let's drag it back up again, right?   (mrsec.com) divider line 175
    More: Obvious, BCS, NCAA, BCS championship, Gus Malzahn, ACC Championship, Harris Poll, RPI, Southern Cal  
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2092 clicks; posted to Sports » on 05 Dec 2013 at 8:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



175 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-05 08:03:35 AM  
You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.
 
2013-12-05 08:04:57 AM  

I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.


Who the Div III football champion is.

And any numbet of other championships decided as God intended.
 
2013-12-05 08:19:05 AM  
Ahhh, December. When the sports tab turns into a mix of the politics tab and the entertainment tab, circa "Twilight"
 
2013-12-05 08:44:03 AM  

I_C_Weener: I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.

Who the Div III football champion is.

And any numbet of other championships decided as God intended.


No one fights over the D1 champion either.
 
2013-12-05 08:44:27 AM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahhh, December. When the sports tab turns into a mix of the politics tab and the entertainment tab, circa "Twilight"


TEAM BCS PLAYOFFS
 
2013-12-05 09:06:30 AM  
The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).
 
2013-12-05 09:09:31 AM  
Let's see...Auburn, Alabama and Missouri. SEC teams.

I'm betting at least one team will be an SEC team.

It's just pure coinkdinky that 4 of the top 5 programs are in the South. No corruption there.

/although I have to say Penn State and USC carry the weight for the rest of the nation in corruption
 
2013-12-05 09:10:40 AM  
images.mmorpg.com
 
2013-12-05 09:15:40 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see...Auburn, Alabama and Missouri. SEC teams.

I'm betting at least one team will be an SEC team.

It's just pure coinkdinky that 4 of the top 5 programs are in the South. No corruption there.

/although I have to say Penn State and USC carry the weight for the rest of the nation in corruption


Ding ding ding. Although, "mrsec.com" kinda gave it away.
 
2013-12-05 09:24:31 AM  
Well if you can't trust MrSEC.com who can you trust?
 
2013-12-05 09:25:07 AM  

Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).


This has been a plan of mine, advocated in my profile until I stopped giving a shiat. I had a few more tweaks.
* Any major conference champion or unbeaten minor conference champion is an automatic bid.
* No more than two at-large bids to a conference.
* Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.
 
2013-12-05 09:32:27 AM  
MrSUX
 
2013-12-05 09:38:08 AM  
MrSEC.com, taking the 'blind' out of blind testing.
 
2013-12-05 09:42:28 AM  
So it was written by an SEC blog... how many non-Missouri fans are actually surprised by Mizzou's stat line there?
 
2013-12-05 09:47:37 AM  

RminusQ: Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).

This has been a plan of mine, advocated in my profile until I stopped giving a shiat. I had a few more tweaks.
* Any major conference champion or unbeaten minor conference champion is an automatic bid.
* No more than two at-large bids to a conference.
* Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.


That's an important one (and as such would NEVER be in the actual system).  We're going to end up with a much better system but instead of biatching about which two teams should get in (and why one of them should automatically come from the SEC) we'll argue about who should get a first round bye and why 3 SEC teams should all have a first round bye... better, but we'll still get to biatch and moan.
 
2013-12-05 09:49:19 AM  
I picked, from best to worst: C (Auburn), D (FSU), E (Missouri), B (Alabama), A (Ohio St.)

Turns out removing the names does make it clearer where Ohio St. belongs.  They just won't like the direction.
 
2013-12-05 09:50:21 AM  
I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.
 
2013-12-05 09:51:20 AM  

meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.

 
2013-12-05 09:53:04 AM  
It's actually a very thoughtfully written article and I agree 100%.  If Auburn wins this week they should most def. be in the title game.
 
2013-12-05 09:59:23 AM  

RminusQ: Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).

This has been a plan of mine, advocated in my profile until I stopped giving a shiat. I had a few more tweaks.
* Any major conference champion or unbeaten minor conference champion is an automatic bid.
* No more than two at-large bids to a conference.
* Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.


I hate the idea of teams which come in as far down as 3rd in their conference getting a shot at the national championship while you're excluding teams which have won their conference title.

Also, what will this do?  You're still going to have arguments because it's still using the same flawed, inherently subjective system.
 
2013-12-05 10:00:49 AM  

BiffDangler: It's actually a very thoughtfully written article and I agree 100%.  If Auburn wins this week they should most def. be in the title game.


It's a rationalization that excludes the single most important reason why Auburn doesn't deserve to be in that game.
 
2013-12-05 10:03:57 AM  

meanmutton: BiffDangler: It's actually a very thoughtfully written article and I agree 100%.  If Auburn wins this week they should most def. be in the title game.

It's a rationalization that excludes the single most important reason why Auburn doesn't deserve to be in that game.


A loss isn't a loss if it happens in the SEC or something....
 
2013-12-05 10:06:44 AM  

meanmutton: It's a rationalization that excludes the single most important reason why Auburn doesn't deserve to be in that game.


Yes, they made the mistake of playing more than two top 50 teams in the course of the season.
 
2013-12-05 10:11:19 AM  
Based on the information give, I'm leaning toward C and D. But I already know who D is.
 
2013-12-05 10:14:16 AM  
Hopefully that will change with college football going to a new playoff system in which teams will be selected by a panel of experts

"Experts" like Condoleeza Rice, for example.
 
2013-12-05 10:18:01 AM  
They forgot 'number of losses'. Which, since two of the five have zero losses, renders every bit of the rest of that meaningless.
 
2013-12-05 10:23:44 AM  
8 teams.  SEC, Big #, Pac 12 and ACC conference winners + 3 wildcards, chosen with the BCS formula, max 1 wildcard per conference.  Seed by BCS standings.

For 2012, that would give:
(1) Notre Dame*
(2) Alabama
(3) Florida*
(4) Oregon*
(5) Kansas St
(6) Stanford
(12) FSU
(NR) Wisconsin

2011:
(1) LSU
(2) Alabama*
(3) Oklahoma St
(4) Stanford*
(5) Oregon
(7) Boise St.*
(10) Wisconsin
(15) Clemson

2010:
(1) Auburn
(2) Oregon
(3) TCU*
(4) Stanford*
(5) Wisconsin*
(6) Ohio St
(7) Oklahoma
(13) VT

Make it longer than 3 rounds and you're increasing the likelihood of injury to a player on a team that's actually a championship contender in a game against a team that really has no business being in the bracket.  Even as it is, some of these teams aren't serious contenders (2012 Wisconsin, I'm looking at you)
 
2013-12-05 10:27:07 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see...Auburn, Alabama and Missouri. SEC teams.

I'm betting at least one team will be an SEC team.

It's just pure coinkdinky that 4 of the top 5 programs are in the South. No corruption there.

/although I have to say Penn State and USC carry the weight for the rest of the nation in corruption


So...you disagree with reality? Can you provide some stats for other teams not considered in TFA ?
 
2013-12-05 10:28:21 AM  

meanmutton: I hate the idea of teams which come in as far down as 3rd in their conference getting a shot at the national championship while you're excluding teams which have won their conference title.

Also, what will this do?  You're still going to have arguments because it's still using the same flawed, inherently subjective system.


Someone in an earlier thread proposed a system that gives a playoff spot to every conference champion and then nothing to anyone else.  Give the current AQ conference champions byes in the first round.  Everyone gets a shot, but if you lose enough to miss your conference championship, you're done.

This doesn't  quite fix everything, since there are still some subjective elements that go into how conference championship games are set up.  (For some reason, C-USA uses the BCS rankings to determine who goes to the championship game, but that doesn't work well when no teams are in the rankings, but your own coach can vote for you in the poll to boost your chances.)  It's still a good system, though.

My favorite part?  Screw Notre Dame!
 
2013-12-05 10:29:00 AM  
They seem to have forgotten a very important stat, winning percentage
 
2013-12-05 10:29:28 AM  

Fizpez: RminusQ: Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).

This has been a plan of mine, advocated in my profile until I stopped giving a shiat. I had a few more tweaks.
* Any major conference champion or unbeaten minor conference champion is an automatic bid.
* No more than two at-large bids to a conference.
* Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.

That's an important one (and as such would NEVER be in the actual system).  We're going to end up with a much better system but instead of biatching about which two teams should get in (and why one of them should automatically come from the SEC) we'll argue about who should get a first round bye and why 3 SEC teams should all have a first round bye... better, but we'll still get to biatch and moan.


I think if you want automatic bids you have to go more than 12 teams. I just want the best 12 teams in the country, I don't care if they're all Pac-12. 12 best teams fighting it out for the title. The 13th best team has a lot less to gripe about the a 5th place team would under the current system. 

/I do agree any minor conference unbeaten gets in, though.
 
2013-12-05 10:32:25 AM  

NetOwl: meanmutton: I hate the idea of teams which come in as far down as 3rd in their conference getting a shot at the national championship while you're excluding teams which have won their conference title.

Also, what will this do?  You're still going to have arguments because it's still using the same flawed, inherently subjective system.

Someone in an earlier thread proposed a system that gives a playoff spot to every conference champion and then nothing to anyone else.  Give the current AQ conference champions byes in the first round.  Everyone gets a shot, but if you lose enough to miss your conference championship, you're done.

This doesn't  quite fix everything, since there are still some subjective elements that go into how conference championship games are set up.  (For some reason, C-USA uses the BCS rankings to determine who goes to the championship game, but that doesn't work well when no teams are in the rankings, but your own coach can vote for you in the poll to boost your chances.)  It's still a good system, though.

My favorite part?  Screw Notre Dame!


(that was my idea and I'm happy that you like it)
 
2013-12-05 10:48:38 AM  
Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.
 
2013-12-05 10:55:24 AM  
Why did the Blind stop?
 
2013-12-05 11:00:11 AM  
Huh, Alabama's resume looks surprisingly weak when put into that context.

It appears that I got a Mizzou/FSU title game using their methodology (which, as others have pointed out, is flawed).  That sounds about right.
 
2013-12-05 11:06:44 AM  
The only fair way to determine a champion is a 16 team double elimination format
 
2013-12-05 11:10:35 AM  

I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.


No one argues over who the BCS Champion either - the rules are pretty clear, and a champion is outright crowned ever year.  Both methods are terrible at determining the best team that year.
 
2013-12-05 11:11:16 AM  

RminusQ: Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).

This has been a plan of mine, advocated in my profile until I stopped giving a shiat. I had a few more tweaks.
* Any major conference champion or unbeaten minor conference champion is an automatic bid.
* No more than two at-large bids to a conference.
* Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.


Yeah but that like makes sense and stuff man. The conference commissioner dudes will not abide.
 
2013-12-05 11:24:45 AM  
According to this guy, lowly Ohio State is #6, behind 2 SEC teams!
http://minkeynet.net/~pfleming/fcfcr/tfs30-fbs.out
 
2013-12-05 11:35:18 AM  

Ponzholio: Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.


You win this thread.
 
2013-12-05 11:39:09 AM  

SmackLT: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahhh, December. When the sports tab turns into a mix of the politics tab and the entertainment tab, circa "Twilight"

TEAM BCS PLAYOFFS


TEAM THIRD WAY -  BOWLS SHOULD RETAIN TRADITIONAL INTER-CONFERENCE MATCHUPS WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF THERE NOT BEING A CONSENSUS NATIONAL CHAMPION - LET THE VOTERS DECIDE
 
2013-12-05 11:43:58 AM  

mikaloyd: The only fair way to determine a champion is a 16 team double elimination format


No, that leaves too much room for flukes.  The only fair way is a 16 team tournament made of seven game home-and-away series like the NBA has.  That format takes lucky flukes out of the equation except with regard to injuries.  It also has the bonus of allowing the casual fan to ignore the regular season and the playoffs and just tune in for games 4 through 7 of the finals.  If they do it my way, nobody will have to sit around speculating what might happen or listening to talk shows or any of that angst... we can be sure it will be settled on the field and just skip over all the drama. It would be just exactly like every other sport. Wouldn't that be great without all the suspense and excitement?  Mmmm mmm good like a bowl of plain white rice with nothing on it, not even butter or salt.  Delicious!  More please!
 
2013-12-05 11:57:30 AM  
16 team playoff with every conference winner in it.
 
2013-12-05 11:59:30 AM  

Ponzholio: Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.


Where did you get your data?  I tried to do the same thing (finding any ridiculous team)
 
2013-12-05 12:08:09 PM  

satanorsanta: Ponzholio: Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.

Where did you get your data?  I tried to do the same thing (finding any ridiculous team)


http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/344/mississippi-state- bu lldogs
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/bcs ,

And some scratch paper and my trusty TI-85 calculator.
 
2013-12-05 12:13:54 PM  

Khellendros: I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.

No one argues over who the BCS Champion either - the rules are pretty clear, and a champion is outright crowned ever year.  Both methods are terrible at determining the best team that year.


Haven't they had split national champs like 12 times?
 
2013-12-05 12:14:18 PM  

Mid_mo_mad_man: 16 team playoff with every conference winner in it.


Uh no.  Some four loss, mid-conference champion has no business being in a bracket to determine the national championship.  Using a regional and monetary designation (conference) to show who's the best is, at best, arbitrary.  The current system is actually better than that, and our current system is awful.

A mix of simple statistical models and human ranking (more weighed on the former) to create a small elite group of 6 or 8 teams to play for it all is the way to go, if your goal is to actually determine the best team.  I've never seen a team ranked 13th or 14th by any poll or composite model that had a regular season that demonstrated that they deserve to be in a playoff for a national championship.  And I've seen way too many 3 and 4 loss conference winners that should be playing in the Chewy's IceCream and BBQ Bowl, not for the trophy.

Keep it small, simple, and limited to elite teams that had stellar regular seasons against quality opponents.
 
2013-12-05 12:18:41 PM  

asimplescribe: Khellendros: I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.

No one argues over who the BCS Champion either - the rules are pretty clear, and a champion is outright crowned ever year.  Both methods are terrible at determining the best team that year.

Haven't they had split national champs like 12 times?


Not since they instituted a single championship game in 1998.  Before that, there was no BCS champion, just half a dozen polls and newspapers that chose their own champion.
 
2013-12-05 12:24:08 PM  

Khellendros: Mid_mo_mad_man: 16 team playoff with every conference winner in it.

Uh no.  Some four loss, mid-conference champion has no business being in a bracket to determine the national championship.  Using a regional and monetary designation (conference) to show who's the best is, at best, arbitrary.  The current system is actually better than that, and our current system is awful.

A mix of simple statistical models and human ranking (more weighed on the former) to create a small elite group of 6 or 8 teams to play for it all is the way to go, if your goal is to actually determine the best team.  I've never seen a team ranked 13th or 14th by any poll or composite model that had a regular season that demonstrated that they deserve to be in a playoff for a national championship.  And I've seen way too many 3 and 4 loss conference winners that should be playing in the Chewy's IceCream and BBQ Bowl, not for the trophy.

Keep it small, simple, and limited to elite teams that had stellar regular seasons against quality opponents.





Every conference needs at least one team. It isn't the lower conference teams fault they can't play better teams. It's the power conference teams fault. If your even remotely good you won't get a game. March Madness is great because of everyone having a title chance. Football would improve with the same thing.
 
2013-12-05 12:31:45 PM  

I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.


They argue every year about why some lesser teams get in that played nobody's but another big conference team gets left out with a better SOS.

And nobody gives a rats ass about lesser football divisions, even most of their stadiums are half empty.

That being said, if UGA had kept winning then Mizzou would have had their signature win but fark that, they're too new to fake advantage of the SEC power!
 
2013-12-05 12:35:50 PM  

Khellendros: Mid_mo_mad_man: 16 team playoff with every conference winner in it.

Uh no.  Some four loss, mid-conference champion has no business being in a bracket to determine the national championship.  Using a regional and monetary designation (conference) to show who's the best is, at best, arbitrary.  The current system is actually better than that, and our current system is awful.

A mix of simple statistical models and human ranking (more weighed on the former) to create a small elite group of 6 or 8 teams to play for it all is the way to go, if your goal is to actually determine the best team.  I've never seen a team ranked 13th or 14th by any poll or composite model that had a regular season that demonstrated that they deserve to be in a playoff for a national championship.  And I've seen way too many 3 and 4 loss conference winners that should be playing in the Chewy's IceCream and BBQ Bowl, not for the trophy.

Keep it small, simple, and limited to elite teams that had stellar regular seasons against quality opponents.


A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.
 
2013-12-05 12:36:50 PM  

asimplescribe: Khellendros: I_C_Weener: You know what people dont fight over? Who the NCAA basketball national champion is.

No one argues over who the BCS Champion either - the rules are pretty clear, and a champion is outright crowned ever year.  Both methods are terrible at determining the best team that year.

Haven't they had split national champs like 12 times?


No I think its been twice maybe and one was during USC cheating days so they dont matter.
 
2013-12-05 12:40:47 PM  

meanmutton: A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.


So you think the BCS 14th team (undefeated Northern Illinois) is better than the 3rd place in the SEC (Alabama)?
 
2013-12-05 12:45:37 PM  

meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.


The more important criteria is quality of opponent and OSU's/FSUs suck, bama did get lucky missing any east teams this year worth a damn.

The entire big 10 is down and the ACC has never been up at best they were decent but the year both division champions got plastered in their final games against SEC teams pretty much says it all.
 
2013-12-05 12:48:59 PM  

steamingpile: meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.

The more important criteria is quality of opponent and OSU's/FSUs suck, bama did get lucky missing any east teams this year worth a damn.

The entire big 10 is down and the ACC has never been up at best they were decent but the year both division champions got plastered in their final games against SEC teams pretty much says it all.


Sorry, but no. Quality of opponents is not a more important criteria than if you beat everyone on your schedule.

Otherwise we'd have a Utah/Washington State NCG, since those two teams played the toughest schedules in the country.
 
2013-12-05 12:51:51 PM  
So Auburn didn't play Missouri until the title game, Alabama won't play Missouri at all and we can honestly say that anyone of those three teams should be in the championship game?

Missouri has the best argument to be in the title game if the win, as they lost in double OT without their starting QB to a 10 win team

Auburn lost to a three loss LSU team and only beat Alabama because they missed 4 FGs.  Also needed a miracle against 4 loss Georgia.  Anyone saying Auburn deserves a shot if they win is an SEC wonk.

Alabama didn't win their division, didn't win their conference title.  Not that it stopped them when they beat LSU in the rematch for the national championship, but that should have never happened again after Nebraska 2001.  NEVER

I hate to say it, but this year, the SEC was nowhere near as tough as it has been in previous years.  The only reason there are 4 teams in the top 10 is because of where they started.  If rankings didn't come out until we've actually seen the teams play, Baylor and Michigan State would likely be ranked above South Carolina and Stanford.

Rankings are stupid, because they are done by people who don't watch the majority of the games.
 
2013-12-05 12:53:22 PM  
OMG!  The SEC might not win the NCG this year!  Something's broken!

What's broken is the BCS.  It was a system designed to artificially inflate SEC teams' rankings and promote a pro-SEC environment, making it easier for their teams to win NCs.  Once ESPN signed that deal with the SEC, it was a given that the SEC would dominate the BCS.  Now that the SEC is creating their own broadcast, we suddenly get a 4-team playoff.  Anybody think the SEC will win the next 7 NCs?  Anybody?
 
2013-12-05 12:53:40 PM  

Fizpez: * Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.

That's an important one (and as such would NEVER be in the actual system). We're going to end up with a much better system but instead of biatching about which two teams should get in (and why one of them should automatically come from the SEC) we'll argue about who should get a first round bye and why 3 SEC teams should all have a first round bye... better, but we'll still get to biatch and moan.


I've got a formula on my computer at home that basically weights AP polls, Coaches poll, the BCS computes, and 6 computer rankings that DO include margin of victory. I don't have the full thing in front of me, but I think it looked like this (using BCS rankings for convenience):
11 Arizona St at 9 Baylor; winner at 1 Florida St
16 Central Florida* at 4 Alabama; winner at 6 Oklahoma St
14 Northern Illinois at 5 Missouri; winner at 2 Ohio St #
10 Michigan St at 7 Stanford; winner at 3 Auburn

*-I decided that the higher ranked of the AAC and MWC champions would be the 6th "major" champion,
#-Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, I adjust the bracket to avoid conference and repeat matchups in early rounds, so Missouri doesn't go in the same quarter as Auburn.
 
2013-12-05 12:55:08 PM  

tdunning: They seem to have forgotten a very important stat, winning percentage


Perhaps because it means less when a significant number of those wins are against teams that may as well not show up. A 9-3 team that plays tough opponents may actually be better than an 11-1 that avoids contenders for most of the season.

Are you actually impressed when Alabama beats Chattanooga by 49 points? To me, Stanford's total domination of Oregon and six point win speaks a lot more loudly.

I'm not specifically advocating Stanford in the BCS title game, but I think fans are tiring of teams hanging championship expectations on perfect seasons that involve too many tomato can games, especially when all those weak opponents are hand-picked by the school. The Kansas City Chiefs were overrated due to a weak early schedule too, but at least it's not done by the team on purpose just to produce a handsome record for financial or prestige reasons.
 
2013-12-05 12:55:13 PM  

proteus_b: meanmutton: A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.

So you think the BCS 14th team (undefeated Northern Illinois) is better than the 3rd place in the SEC (Alabama)?


No, I don't. Being "better" isn't the right criteria. Winning your games, winning your division, winning your conference is.
 
2013-12-05 01:01:42 PM  
I still don't understand why so many people seem to love the idea of using subjective judgement to include teams in a playoff.  Why do we do that in college football?  Could you imagine there being a poll in the NFL to see which teams get in?
 
2013-12-05 01:02:41 PM  

RminusQ: Fizpez: 
#-Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, I adjust the bracket to avoid conference and repeat matchups in early rounds, so Missouri doesn't go in the same quarter as Auburn.


So we can still end up with an all-SEC final.  Sounds legit
 
2013-12-05 01:04:10 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: steamingpile: meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.

The more important criteria is quality of opponent and OSU's/FSUs suck, bama did get lucky missing any east teams this year worth a damn.

The entire big 10 is down and the ACC has never been up at best they were decent but the year both division champions got plastered in their final games against SEC teams pretty much says it all.

Sorry, but no. Quality of opponents is not a more important criteria than if you beat everyone on your schedule.

Otherwise we'd have a Utah/Washington State NCG, since those two teams played the toughest schedules in the country.


Winning against those teams is also a big deal, you can't just schedule top 15 programs and lose them all.

Just like you can't play a schedule full of lesser teams and not expect an argument against you being in the NCG. Its how LSU got there with 2 losses.
 
2013-12-05 01:13:59 PM  

Carousel Beast: TheShavingofOccam123: Let's see...Auburn, Alabama and Missouri. SEC teams.

I'm betting at least one team will be an SEC team.

It's just pure coinkdinky that 4 of the top 5 programs are in the South. No corruption there.

/although I have to say Penn State and USC carry the weight for the rest of the nation in corruption

So...you disagree with reality? Can you provide some stats for other teams not considered in TFA ?


You missed my point. It's about criminal behavior on the part of boosters, admins, coaching staffs and players...the whole program at various universities.

You know like Joe Pa. Like the ASU professor who was fired for not passing a football player. Like Reggie Bush.

And if anyone believes that Southern football hasn't honed improper and illegal behavior and made them part of daily life in college football programs, well, do yourself a favor and bet heavy on any Southern team in the BCS debacle.

I hear SMU used to be a real powerhouse...then they went real small for some reason...now I hear they've fixed that thingee and are back to the good old days.
 
2013-12-05 01:30:43 PM  
The only thing I completely agree with from that article is that Alabama should not even be in the discussion.  Once again they failed to be the best team in their division of their conference.  They are the third or fourth place team in the SEC.  That does not qualify them to have a shot to call themselves the national champion.  Alabama's weak schedule and the fact that they have only won the SEC Western Division once in the last five years means that they have not earned a free pass.  I don't care if everyone loses this week, Alabama is out.

As for whether to send Missouri or Auburn over Florida State or Ohio State, I have no real opinion about it.  Personally, if both OSU and FlaSt end the year undefeated, they should be in.  If someone wants to elevate Missouri or Auburn, there are reasonable reasons for it.
 
2013-12-05 01:38:46 PM  

RminusQ: Fizpez: * Most importantly: Only automatic bids can get a bye. So if you lose your conference championship game, you have to play an octofinal.

That's an important one (and as such would NEVER be in the actual system). We're going to end up with a much better system but instead of biatching about which two teams should get in (and why one of them should automatically come from the SEC) we'll argue about who should get a first round bye and why 3 SEC teams should all have a first round bye... better, but we'll still get to biatch and moan.

I've got a formula on my computer at home that basically weights AP polls, Coaches poll, the BCS computes, and 6 computer rankings that DO include margin of victory. I don't have the full thing in front of me, but I think it looked like this (using BCS rankings for convenience):
11 Arizona St at 9 Baylor; winner at 1 Florida St
16 Central Florida* at 4 Alabama; winner at 6 Oklahoma St
14 Northern Illinois at 5 Missouri; winner at 2 Ohio St #
10 Michigan St at 7 Stanford; winner at 3 Auburn

*-I decided that the higher ranked of the AAC and MWC champions would be the 6th "major" champion,
#-Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, I adjust the bracket to avoid conference and repeat matchups in early rounds, so Missouri doesn't go in the same quarter as Auburn.


I would watch all of those excent 16 @ 4 and 14 @ 5. Those games would likely suck. The rest seem like they would make for good matchups
 
2013-12-05 01:44:18 PM  
A tournament with conference champions would be a step backwards.
In the NFL a team can finish the regular season 11-5 and miss the playoffs while a team that finished 8-8 gets in... that stupid result is because of conferences AKA divisions.
Any of the current top 5 "power" conferences could split in half and each half would still be stronger than NIU's conference.
A playoff of conference champions will just cause conference realignment.
Notre Dame, for example, could say "Hey, we are now The Notre Dame Football Conference" and we'll invite half a dozen creampuff schools to join ... sure you will be a sacrificial lamb but you get a guaranteed sellout on a home-and-home and national tv coverage every year plus some years we are down!
The entire existing conference structure would splinter and re-arrange into a bunch of 8 team conferences with no more than 2 traditionally good teams per conference.  Yuck!
 
2013-12-05 01:51:13 PM  

meanmutton: I still don't understand why so many people seem to love the idea of using subjective judgement to include teams in a playoff.  Why do we do that in college football?  Could you imagine there being a poll in the NFL to see which teams get in?


It has never happened, and probably never will, but the final tiebreaker for a team to make the NFL playoffs is a coin flip.
 
2013-12-05 01:55:51 PM  

TheWhoppah: A tournament with conference champions would be a step backwards.
In the NFL a team can finish the regular season 11-5 and miss the playoffs while a team that finished 8-8 gets in... that stupid result is because of conferences AKA divisions.
Any of the current top 5 "power" conferences could split in half and each half would still be stronger than NIU's conference.
A playoff of conference champions will just cause conference realignment.
Notre Dame, for example, could say "Hey, we are now The Notre Dame Football Conference" and we'll invite half a dozen creampuff schools to join ... sure you will be a sacrificial lamb but you get a guaranteed sellout on a home-and-home and national tv coverage every year plus some years we are down!
The entire existing conference structure would splinter and re-arrange into a bunch of 8 team conferences with no more than 2 traditionally good teams per conference.  Yuck!


That scenario would tend towards conference parity. Is that bad?
 
2013-12-05 01:59:20 PM  
BREAKING: Rape culture continues. No charges against Winston
 
2013-12-05 02:02:58 PM  

steamingpile: The_Six_Fingered_Man: steamingpile: meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.

The more important criteria is quality of opponent and OSU's/FSUs suck, bama did get lucky missing any east teams this year worth a damn.

The entire big 10 is down and the ACC has never been up at best they were decent but the year both division champions got plastered in their final games against SEC teams pretty much says it all.

Sorry, but no. Quality of opponents is not a more important criteria than if you beat everyone on your schedule.

Otherwise we'd have a Utah/Washington State NCG, since those two teams played the toughest schedules in the country.

Winning against those teams is also a big deal, you can't just schedule top 15 programs and lose them all.

Just like you can't play a schedule full of lesser teams and not expect an argument against you being in the NCG. Its how LSU got there with 2 losses.


So wins matter, just not against the schedules you deem to be lesser.

Sorry, but you really have to be the only person I have seen that has said that schedules matter MORE than winning all of your games. Schedules matter, sure, when trying to compare teams with an equal win/loss record. But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?
 
2013-12-05 02:15:04 PM  

mikaloyd: TheWhoppah: A tournament with conference champions would be a step backwards.
In the NFL a team can finish the regular season 11-5 and miss the playoffs while a team that finished 8-8 gets in... that stupid result is because of conferences AKA divisions.
Any of the current top 5 "power" conferences could split in half and each half would still be stronger than NIU's conference.
A playoff of conference champions will just cause conference realignment.
Notre Dame, for example, could say "Hey, we are now The Notre Dame Football Conference" and we'll invite half a dozen creampuff schools to join ... sure you will be a sacrificial lamb but you get a guaranteed sellout on a home-and-home and national tv coverage every year plus some years we are down!
The entire existing conference structure would splinter and re-arrange into a bunch of 8 team conferences with no more than 2 traditionally good teams per conference.  Yuck!

That scenario would tend towards conference parity. Is that bad?


Yes.  Conference games would become jokes and the playoff is all anyone would care about.  Imagine every team that has won any BCS splitting off and starting their own conference with a bunch of cream-puffs, nobodies and has-beens.  We'll have a dozen undefeated teams going into the tournament every year.
 
2013-12-05 02:15:41 PM  
BREAKING: Rape culture continues. No charges against Winston


5/10
 
2013-12-05 02:22:25 PM  

Bad Man Jose: RminusQ: Fizpez:
#-Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, I adjust the bracket to avoid conference and repeat matchups in early rounds, so Missouri doesn't go in the same quarter as Auburn.

So we can still end up with an all-SEC final.  Sounds legit


If they beat the champions of other conferences, they will have earned it on the field.
 
2013-12-05 02:22:52 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?


Well, how about when a large percentage of the wins are garbage that are specifically engineered to be easy kills?

If the majority of your trophies are three-legged, blind, deaf deer, does that make you the nation's best hunter?
 
2013-12-05 02:28:37 PM  

TheKingOfMexico: The_Six_Fingered_Man: But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?

Well, how about when a large percentage of the wins are garbage that are specifically engineered to be easy kills?

If the majority of your trophies are three-legged, blind, deaf deer, does that make you the nation's best hunter?


If a majority of an NFL team's wins are against the NFC North, do we not let them into the playoffs?
 
2013-12-05 02:35:20 PM  

IanMoone: BREAKING: Rape culture continues. No charges against Winston


I'll bite - so people not being charged with rape is indicative of a rape culture?
 
2013-12-05 02:35:40 PM  

TheWhoppah: The entire existing conference structure would splinter and re-arrange into a bunch of 8 team conferences with no more than 2 traditionally good teams per conference.  Yuck!

That scenario would tend towards conference parity. Is that bad?

Yes.  Conference games would become jokes and the playoff is all anyone would care about.  Imagine every team that has won any BCS splitting off and starting their own conference with a bunch of cream-puffs, nobodies and has-beens.  We'll have a dozen undefeated teams going into the tournament every year.


It's a wonder that the SEC schools haven't split into two conferences by now.
 
2013-12-05 02:38:47 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: If a majority of an NFL team's wins are against the NFC AFC North, do we not let them into the playoffs?


In the case of the Bears, who will sweep the puny AFC North and may only get to 8 wins this year, no we do let them into the playoffs.
 
2013-12-05 02:50:10 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: steamingpile: meanmutton: I see they have conviently left out the most important criteria, number of losses.

The more important criteria is quality of opponent and OSU's/FSUs suck, bama did get lucky missing any east teams this year worth a damn.

The entire big 10 is down and the ACC has never been up at best they were decent but the year both division champions got plastered in their final games against SEC teams pretty much says it all.

Sorry, but no. Quality of opponents is not a more important criteria than if you beat everyone on your schedule.

Otherwise we'd have a Utah/Washington State NCG, since those two teams played the toughest schedules in the country.


And that's also how we got a BYU national champion.
 
2013-12-05 02:51:44 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: So wins matter, just not against the schedules you deem to be lesser.

Sorry, but you really have to be the only person I have seen that has said that schedules matter MORE than winning all of your games. Schedules matter, sure, when trying to compare teams with an equal win/loss record. But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?


When those wins come against shiatty teams

And you think Im the only one saying then you obviously havent been paying attention, this has been the knock on teams like BSU/NIU/TCU, etc.... So to say that I am the only one is either being an idiot or willfully ignorant.

I think the difference between most of the big name conferences is tiny at best, except for AAC but there is room for argument with the ACC being so shiatty most years and the big 10 being way down this year.
 
2013-12-05 02:58:14 PM  

Komplex: And that's also how we got a BYU national champion.


Except BYU didnt play even a remotely tough schedule, their toughest and only ranked game was pittsburgh that wound up 3-7, BYU got a NC because the writers are idiots and why the BCS is better than what they had in the past.
 
2013-12-05 03:00:14 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: If a majority of an NFL team's wins are against the NFC North, do we not let them into the playoffs?


In the pro leagues, just about any team can be a strong or weak opponent in a given season (who expected Houston to suck like this?). Western Carolina, on the other hand, only shows up on college powerhouse schedules for one reason.
 
2013-12-05 03:03:13 PM  

steamingpile: The_Six_Fingered_Man: So wins matter, just not against the schedules you deem to be lesser.

Sorry, but you really have to be the only person I have seen that has said that schedules matter MORE than winning all of your games. Schedules matter, sure, when trying to compare teams with an equal win/loss record. But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?

When those wins come against shiatty teams

And you think Im the only one saying then you obviously havent been paying attention, this has been the knock on teams like BSU/NIU/TCU, etc.... So to say that I am the only one is either being an idiot or willfully ignorant.

I think the difference between most of the big name conferences is tiny at best, except for AAC but there is room for argument with the ACC being so shiatty most years and the big 10 being way down this year.


The argument for BSU/TCU is that they were up against other undefeated teams, so schedule comes into play. Same with NIU. So we go with schedule. That's the only time schedule should enter the equation. No one I have seen has argued, other than this year, that a team with one loss jump a team with no losses.
 
2013-12-05 03:04:08 PM  
The blind resume test i'd like to see is, once all the ESPN hype is stripped away, does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should. Of all the bullshiat ranking arguments lately, everyone is ignoring how ridiculous it is to have not one, but two different 2-loss teams and some questionable 1-loss teams like Baylor ranked over the nation's best defense with only one close loss in September season when their rookie QB was still adjusting to the college level.

Losing to Utah and a middling USC = gtfo of the top 10. Losing to frigging Tennessee = GTFO of the top 10.

Remove the labels and institutional bias and Sparty would be #5-ish this week, but that would help Ohio State's SoS far too much to allow it to actually happen. Sparty at #10 behind Baylor, Stanford and South Carolina is a crock of shiat.
 
2013-12-05 03:04:55 PM  
Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.
 
2013-12-05 03:08:25 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: The argument for BSU/TCU is that they were up against other undefeated teams, so schedule comes into play. Same with NIU. So we go with schedule. That's the only time schedule should enter the equation. No one I have seen has argued, other than this year, that a team with one loss jump a team with no losses.


Im not arguing that either so I dont know what you are talking about but what I am saying their schedules are questionable at best and the only way we are going to get more than the playoff proposed is if conferences are severely limited in who can be invited. I liked the one proposed by one poster which limited it to 2 at large teams per conferences but no other conferences would agree to that since some years the SEC would have 3 teams, even it meant other years their conferences could have 3 teams(including champion).

What really pisses me off is we could have had a playoff years ago if the big12/pac10/big10 didnt conspire to kill it before real discussions happened by convincing the big east to vote no, what farking suckers they were now they are gone and the AAC will be getting farked for years now.
 
2013-12-05 03:09:32 PM  

meanmutton: A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.


Often, yes.  But in the last seven years, the 3rd SEC team is often better than the conference champion of nearly EVERY other conference.  In the decade before that, the 3rd BigXII team was in about the same place.  Before that, the Big10, etc.  So let's not place a lot of emphasis on that as an indicator of quality.  Conferences are artificial constructs based on cash and region.

Mid_mo_mad_man: Every conference needs at least one team. It isn't the lower conference teams fault they can't play better teams. It's the power conference teams fault. If your even remotely good you won't get a game. March Madness is great because of everyone having a title chance. Football would improve with the same thing.


Yes, scheduling needs to be more balanced.  I won't argue there.  But nearly every time of of these mid major teams bubbles up, they get killed.  Sure, there's a Boise every once in a while, but for every one of those, you have 5 Hawaii collapses, or Rutgers.  They don't hold up well.

But I will argue against this - March Madness does a terrible job of weeding down to the elite teams.  Sure, a lot of #1s often make it through, and the lower seeds tend to fall off.  But people only look at one side of it.  How many 1 - 4 seeds (power conference, great records, proven quality) get knocked off early?  Nearly all of them.  The final four is usually a decent mix, but rarely did the best teams compete in the third and fourth round to get there.  It's luck and streaky play.  There's just too many teams.  It's akin to the WSOP Main Event.  Too many ankle biters eroding good teams in fluke games.

I won't say it's not a spectacle.  It's great entertainment, makes a ton of money, and gets great ratings.  It's an sporting event like no other.  But the competitive angle is pretty poor on that one.  I wish they'd narrow the field (or at least stop expanding it).  College football would do itself a disservice by going beyond 8 teams.  In 20 years, I haven't seen a team outside of the top 10 have a good argument after the regular season that they should be playing for the top spot.
 
2013-12-05 03:14:10 PM  

jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.


I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.
 
2013-12-05 03:16:51 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: The blind resume test i'd like to see is, once all the ESPN hype is stripped away, does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.


Again, quality of opponent comes into play, get back to us if they beat OSU or hold them to under 350 yards, the SEC took a beating this year because their conference is obviously down but that doesnt mean the big 10 cant take their beating because their conference is still down further than it was last year.

jasimo: The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week,


Because it was expected, I mean really once the delays happened who thought he was gonna get charged?
 
2013-12-05 03:17:22 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.

I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.


That's how bad folks hate FSU. If charges had been brought, green light and main page.

Go Noles!
 
2013-12-05 03:17:59 PM  
No Winston thread? Guess it isn't news.
 
2013-12-05 03:18:15 PM  

Khellendros: meanmutton: A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.

Often, yes.  But in the last seven years, the 3rd SEC team is often better than the conference champion of nearly EVERY other conference.  In the decade before that, the 3rd BigXII team was in about the same place.  Before that, the Big10, etc.  So let's not place a lot of emphasis on that as an indicator of quality.  Conferences are artificial constructs based on cash and region.

Mid_mo_mad_man: Every conference needs at least one team. It isn't the lower conference teams fault they can't play better teams. It's the power conference teams fault. If your even remotely good you won't get a game. March Madness is great because of everyone having a title chance. Football would improve with the same thing.

Yes, scheduling needs to be more balanced.  I won't argue there.  But nearly every time of of these mid major teams bubbles up, they get killed.  Sure, there's a Boise every once in a while, but for every one of those, you have 5 Hawaii collapses, or Rutgers.  They don't hold up well.

But I will argue against this - March Madness does a terrible job of weeding down to the elite teams.  Sure, a lot of #1s often make it through, and the lower seeds tend to fall off.  But people only look at one side of it.  How many 1 - 4 seeds (power conference, great records, proven quality) get knocked off early?  Nearly all of them.  The final four is usually a decent mix, but rarely did the best teams compete in the third and fourth round to get there.  It's luck and streaky play.  There's just too many teams.  It's akin to the WSOP Main Event.  Too many ankle biters eroding good teams in fluke games.

I won't say it's not a spectacle.  It's great entertainment, makes a ton of money, and gets great ratings.  It's an sporting event like no other.  But the competitive angle is pretty poor on that one.  I wish they'd narrow the field (or at least stop expanding it) ...


Yeah, anything more than 8 would be too much for college football in my opinion.  My idea has always been 8 teams.  5 of them being auto invites to the champs of the Big 10, Big 12, Pac 12, SEC and ACC and 3 at large bids for other deserving teams.  Keep it limited to 2 per conference so we don't end up with too many inter conference rematches in the post season.  No one curr about Alabama LSU redux.  shiat was boring once, it was doubly boring twice.  I'd rather keep the emphasis on the regular season meaning the most and allowing half a damn conference to slide into a post season playoff would negate a lot of the importance of those other 10-12 games.  That playoff scenario makes winning the conference every team's primary goal.  If you lose your conference, you have absolutely no leg to stand on period.  If you're a really amazing team, you might luck your way into an at large bid, but there are only 3 of them a year so that's not odds you want to play if you're serious about being a champion.

Win your AQ conference and go to playoffs. It's as simple as that.  If you don't do that, you don't get to whine.  While this leaves a lot of Div 1-A teams potentially out of the running, there really are not 120 teams that deserve to be called top flight Division 1-A teams.  The MAC and the Sun Belt and the Big East should not get auto bids as they have no track record of being even remotely competitive.  If one of those teams is hot shiat for a single year, they can vie for an at large bid or join an AQ conference.  I have a feeling we're heading towards 14 or 16 team power conferences anyways over the next decade or so.
 
2013-12-05 03:18:17 PM  

mikaloyd: meanmutton: I still don't understand why so many people seem to love the idea of using subjective judgement to include teams in a playoff.  Why do we do that in college football?  Could you imagine there being a poll in the NFL to see which teams get in?

It has never happened, and probably never will, but the final tiebreaker for a team to make the NFL playoffs is a coin flip.


I'm pretty sure it's been used for draft position, though.  Also, lots of places in the US use a coin flip in the case of an electoral tie.
 
2013-12-05 03:20:22 PM  

steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: The blind resume test i'd like to see is, once all the ESPN hype is stripped away, does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

Again, quality of opponent comes into play, get back to us if they beat OSU or hold them to under 350 yards, the SEC took a beating this year because their conference is obviously down but that doesnt mean the big 10 cant take their beating because their conference is still down further than it was last year.

jasimo: The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week,

Because it was expected, I mean really once the delays happened who thought he was gonna get charged?


I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?
 
2013-12-05 03:20:42 PM  

TheWhoppah: mikaloyd: TheWhoppah: A tournament with conference champions would be a step backwards.
In the NFL a team can finish the regular season 11-5 and miss the playoffs while a team that finished 8-8 gets in... that stupid result is because of conferences AKA divisions.
Any of the current top 5 "power" conferences could split in half and each half would still be stronger than NIU's conference.
A playoff of conference champions will just cause conference realignment.
Notre Dame, for example, could say "Hey, we are now The Notre Dame Football Conference" and we'll invite half a dozen creampuff schools to join ... sure you will be a sacrificial lamb but you get a guaranteed sellout on a home-and-home and national tv coverage every year plus some years we are down!
The entire existing conference structure would splinter and re-arrange into a bunch of 8 team conferences with no more than 2 traditionally good teams per conference.  Yuck!

That scenario would tend towards conference parity. Is that bad?

Yes.  Conference games would become jokes and the playoff is all anyone would care about.  Imagine every team that has won any BCS splitting off and starting their own conference with a bunch of cream-puffs, nobodies and has-beens.  We'll have a dozen undefeated teams going into the tournament every year.


The error in your logic -- Schools in general are less concerned about winning national championships than they are about revenue.  Breaking down the conference structure as you indicate would dramatically lessen revenue.
 
2013-12-05 03:21:25 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.


FSU already is ranked #1.
 
2013-12-05 03:23:03 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: TheKingOfMexico: The_Six_Fingered_Man: But since when do we punish teams for winning all the games on their schedule?

Well, how about when a large percentage of the wins are garbage that are specifically engineered to be easy kills?

If the majority of your trophies are three-legged, blind, deaf deer, does that make you the nation's best hunter?

If a majority of an NFL team's wins are against the NFC North, do we not let them into the playoffs?


Why NFC North instead of, say AFC South?
 
2013-12-05 03:29:28 PM  

supageil: I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?


Or you could argue how much special treatment athletes get when in school? It looks worse when they were in an undefeated season and most of the biggest questions people have is if he would have been arrested if they were a 4 loss team.

flak attack: FSU already is ranked #1.


He means YPG which is Mich State, problem is they only played or two defenses in the top 70 in the nation so that holds little weight, FSU just played a bunch of bad red zone teams.
 
2013-12-05 03:32:46 PM  

Khellendros: meanmutton: A 3rd place team in a major conference has even less business being eligible for a national championship.

Often, yes.  But in the last seven years, the 3rd SEC team is often better than the conference champion of nearly EVERY other conference.  In the decade before that, the 3rd BigXII team was in about the same place.  Before that, the Big10, etc.  So let's not place a lot of emphasis on that as an indicator of quality.  Conferences are artificial constructs based on cash and region.


Quality is irrelevant.  They're the 3rd place team in their conference.  I don't care if they're better than the best team in another conference -- they're not the best team in their conference and thus have no business being eligible for a national championship.
 
2013-12-05 03:35:04 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.

I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.


Anybody watching the press conference? Winston's lawyer is talking now. Some really interesting stuff.
 
2013-12-05 03:37:14 PM  
This is why you don't want a playoff.
There are 4 NFL threads on fark today. 4 on the NBA (3 about the Knicks). One on hockey. And 4 on College football.

The NFL threads combined still don't have as many posts as this thread.

The Polls, the BCS, the ambiguity give us something to talk about.
 
2013-12-05 03:37:18 PM  

steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: The blind resume test i'd like to see is, once all the ESPN hype is stripped away, does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

Again, quality of opponent comes into play, get back to us if they beat OSU or hold them to under 350 yards, the SEC took a beating this year because their conference is obviously down but that doesnt mean the big 10 cant take their beating because their conference is still down further than it was last year.


Losses matter.  A lot.  Multiple losses don't get to be waved away because you feel in your gut that someone else didn't play good enough.  The teams ahead of MSU have much uglier losses to far worse teams than MSU's loss (note the singular loss there) and those other teams all lost their games more recently than Sparty's September hiccup.   There is virtually no legit way that Sparty lands at #10 with their resume when compared to any of those 3.  Unless of course you have a multi-billion dollar hype machine that utterly dominates the conversation and greatly sways all future rankings by essentially telling every voter exactly how their preseason rankings should look.

The Big Ten's 3rd best team for all intents and purposes beat a team who may very well win the Pac 12 this weekend, if not for one of the most botched ref jobs I've ever seen.  That doesn't sound like something a weak conference does.  Perhaps the news of the Big 10's demise is a bit overstated.  Despite Iowa and Wisconsin having to play one of the most potent offenses in the country, they still boast top 10 defenses and Sparty will likely hold on to a top 5 spot despite what Ohio State does to them.  You can't just handwave that kind of stuff away because you don't like it.

Since you want to talk resumes, who the hell as South Carolina beat to justify a top 10 ranking with 2 losses?  Mizzou and.... mizzou and.... mizzou and..... no one.  Does a 3 point overtime win against Mizzou's backup freshman QB objectively negate 2 losses to mediocre/bad teams?  Only in SEC land.  Back here in reality, the answer is no.  No it does not negate those horrible blemishes on the gamecock's record.
 
2013-12-05 03:38:10 PM  

meanmutton: Quality is irrelevant. They're the 3rd place team in their conference. I don't care if they're better than the best team in another conference -- they're not the best team in their conference and thus have no business being eligible for a national championship.


And I'd make the counter argument - those other conference champions have no business playing for a national championship if they're worse than #3 of another conference.  That just leaves you with even further narrowing the field.
 
2013-12-05 03:41:31 PM  

RminusQ: Bad Man Jose: RminusQ: Fizpez:
#-Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, I adjust the bracket to avoid conference and repeat matchups in early rounds, so Missouri doesn't go in the same quarter as Auburn.

So we can still end up with an all-SEC final.  Sounds legit

If they beat the champions of other conferences, they will have earned it on the field.


If they earn the 16th seed, they should play the 1, no matter if they are from the same conference.
 
2013-12-05 03:42:02 PM  

flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.


LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.
 
2013-12-05 03:42:23 PM  
The Polls, the BCS, the ambiguity give us something to talk about.


That whole Penn State/Jerry Sandusky thing was great for talking about too! Controversy is fascinating!
 
2013-12-05 03:47:03 PM  

steamingpile: supageil: I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?

Or you could argue how much special treatment athletes get when in school? It looks worse when they were in an undefeated season and most of the biggest questions people have is if he would have been arrested if they were a 4 loss team.

flak attack: FSU already is ranked #1.

He means YPG which is Mich State, problem is they only played or two defenses in the top 70 in the nation so that holds little weight, FSU just played a bunch of bad red zone teams.


Michigan St has the ball for over 3 more minutes a game than FSU does.  FSU's offense walks on the field, scores in two plays (slight exaggeration), then walks off again.  That's basically a full extra drive FSU has to face per game.
 
2013-12-05 03:47:09 PM  

ongbok: JusticeandIndependence: jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.

I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.

Anybody watching the press conference? Winston's lawyer is talking now. Some really interesting stuff.


Can't at work, but reading a little more about the presser today....

He did reveal some new facts, saying that while Winston's DNA was present in the sexual assault kit, the DNA of another male was also found, complicating the investigation. That person was identified as the accuser's boyfriend, and he was not associated with the complaint, Meggs said.

It could be a scenario where she cheated on her boyfriend and got caught.

Or rape.

Who knows at this point?
 
2013-12-05 03:47:25 PM  

Komplex: This is why you don't want a playoff.
There are 4 NFL threads on fark today. 4 on the NBA (3 about the Knicks). One on hockey. And 4 on College football.

The NFL threads combined still don't have as many posts as this thread.

The Polls, the BCS, the ambiguity give us something to talk about.


I'd rather have worthwhile sports to watch than worthless sports to talk about.
 
2013-12-05 03:48:32 PM  

Patronick313: The four team playoff next year is a step in the right direction. A 12 team playoff would be the ideal format IMO.

Top four get a bye. 5-8 host 9-12 on campus.

1-4 host the winners on campus.

Semifinals and finals are held like bowls (Sugar, Orange, Fiesta...whatever).


My preference, too. And everybody else could still have all the other irrelevant bowl games they like.
 
2013-12-05 03:49:27 PM  

Khellendros: meanmutton: Quality is irrelevant. They're the 3rd place team in their conference. I don't care if they're better than the best team in another conference -- they're not the best team in their conference and thus have no business being eligible for a national championship.

And I'd make the counter argument - those other conference champions have no business playing for a national championship if they're worse than #3 of another conference.  That just leaves you with even further narrowing the field.


That's not unreasonable, really, but to me the biggest travesty is the injection of subjectivity into the equation when you can make it 100% on the field performance with no subjectivity by just having a tournament of conference winners.  I understand, though, that I'm in the minority and for some reason the vast majority of college football fans enjoy having some mysterious cabal decide who gets to play for a national championship.
 
2013-12-05 03:50:22 PM  

Ponzholio: Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.


Ah, I see someone's taken care of this.
 
2013-12-05 03:50:34 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.


I overlooked the whole 1 loss thing.  That said, either total yardage allowed a less reliable measure of defense skill than points or Houston has the 3rd best defense in the NFL.
 
2013-12-05 03:54:45 PM  
As someone who is not a fan of tOSU can I just say that I hope they win this whole thing especially against a 1 loss SEC team to just finish this whole we have a beauty pageant national championship sooner rather than later.  Personally I want an extended playoff with all the conference champions represented plus a few at large teams, but mostly I want a team from a minor conference like Boise State (or in the past TCU or Utah) to blow the whole thing up.  I am sick of the "we play in X conference so we are automatically better" (mostly looking at you SEC) and just want it determined on the field.  Yes a "worse" team can win, but that is what would make it so fun and quite frankly if you can't beat them then stop your whining.
 
2013-12-05 03:56:11 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: ongbok: JusticeandIndependence: jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.

I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.

Anybody watching the press conference? Winston's lawyer is talking now. Some really interesting stuff.

Can't at work, but reading a little more about the presser today....

He did reveal some new facts, saying that while Winston's DNA was present in the sexual assault kit, the DNA of another male was also found, complicating the investigation. That person was identified as the accuser's boyfriend, and he was not associated with the complaint, Meggs said.

It could be a scenario where she cheated on her boyfriend and got caught.

Or rape.

Who knows at this point?


What I found really interesting is that when the State Attorney was asked directly by a reporter if he thought that the accuser was credible he did everything he could to dance around it. He never said yes and then he went on to explain that there was major discrepancies in her story and she couldn't remember important details. And when asked why he though she had these problems with her story, he said he didn't know, and made it perfectly clear that there weren't any drugs found in her system and she wasn't intoxicated to the point that she would have any memory loss. The guy did everything he could to keep from saying that she lied.
 
2013-12-05 04:00:56 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: ongbok: JusticeandIndependence: jasimo: Fark has gone to the dogs. The Jameis decision, the biggest sports news all week, comes down an hour ago and Fark has neither a Breaking News nor a Sports thread on it.

I submitted a Breaking News link on it. Nothing.

I kept checking back to see if there is going to be one.  I guess not.

Anybody watching the press conference? Winston's lawyer is talking now. Some really interesting stuff.

Can't at work, but reading a little more about the presser today....

He did reveal some new facts, saying that while Winston's DNA was present in the sexual assault kit, the DNA of another male was also found, complicating the investigation. That person was identified as the accuser's boyfriend, and he was not associated with the complaint, Meggs said.

It could be a scenario where she cheated on her boyfriend and got caught.

Or rape.

Who knows at this point?


She reported the rape within an hour of it happening.  Not exactly a lot of time for this to happen.
 
2013-12-05 04:03:33 PM  
Apparently a friend of the accusers is the one who called the cops.

Also, fwiw:
http://www.tmz.com/2013/12/05/jameis-winston-friends-oral-sex-more-t ha n-willing/
 
2013-12-05 04:04:18 PM  

meanmutton: That's not unreasonable, really, but to me the biggest travesty is the injection of subjectivity into the equation when you can make it 100% on the field performance with no subjectivity by just having a tournament of conference winners. I understand, though, that I'm in the minority and for some reason the vast majority of college football fans enjoy having some mysterious cabal decide who gets to play for a national championship.


Actually, the current scheduling makes it numerically impossible to rank without a LOT subjectivity.  Ten games across 120 teams doesn't come anywhere near being able to feasibly rank the top 10 or 20 teams based only on on-field performance.  Adding in conference requirements and boundaries (which are arbitrary and further reduce the effectiveness of on-field performance), and you just can't do it without starting with a human poll and artifically constructing a SoS and ordering teams based on subjective criteria.  The sample of games is way too small.  You'd need to randomize matchups across the entire country, and have an 18 - 20 game season to even come close.

Conference winners are utterly arbitrary.  They don't enforce any level of randomness, nor do they go the opposite way and create tiered leagues of quality.  They reduce team evaluation by a huge margin.  Using them as any basis of comparison is a fallacy if your goal is to match top teams.  You'd need even more subjectivity to make that system work.
 
2013-12-05 04:06:27 PM  

meanmutton: She reported the rape within an hour of it happening.  Not exactly a lot of time for this to happen.


Her story is full of holes at this point.  She didn't even identify Winston as the rapist at first.

Last week, Tallahassee police issued a timeline of the case and defended their handling of the investigation. According to the timeline, TPD said the woman didn't identify Winston as her alleged attacker until Jan. 10, more than a month after the incident. Tallahassee police said evidence from the woman's rape kit was sent to the state crime lab on Jan. 15, and Winston declined to be interviewed by police on Jan. 23.
 
2013-12-05 04:10:58 PM  

JusticeandIndependence: meanmutton: She reported the rape within an hour of it happening.  Not exactly a lot of time for this to happen.

Her story is full of holes at this point.  She didn't even identify Winston as the rapist at first.

Last week, Tallahassee police issued a timeline of the case and defended their handling of the investigation. According to the timeline, TPD said the woman didn't identify Winston as her alleged attacker until Jan. 10, more than a month after the incident. Tallahassee police said evidence from the woman's rape kit was sent to the state crime lab on Jan. 15, and Winston declined to be interviewed by police on Jan. 23.


She didn't know who he was at the time.  How does that create make it less likely that it wasn't a consensual act?  Seems to me that makes it more likely, if anything.
 
2013-12-05 04:15:57 PM  

meanmutton: JusticeandIndependence: meanmutton: She reported the rape within an hour of it happening.  Not exactly a lot of time for this to happen.

Her story is full of holes at this point.  She didn't even identify Winston as the rapist at first.

Last week, Tallahassee police issued a timeline of the case and defended their handling of the investigation. According to the timeline, TPD said the woman didn't identify Winston as her alleged attacker until Jan. 10, more than a month after the incident. Tallahassee police said evidence from the woman's rape kit was sent to the state crime lab on Jan. 15, and Winston declined to be interviewed by police on Jan. 23.

She didn't know who he was at the time.  How does that create make it less likely that it wasn't a consensual act?  Seems to me that makes it more likely, if anything.


Because she her story changed and changed and changed.  Who knows what happened?  She even doesn't....

Search warrants in the case were released before Meggs' announcement and indicate the woman told police she was raped at an apartment after a night of drinking at a bar. In the warrant, the accuser says she and friends had shots at Potbellys and her "memory is very broken from that point forward."
Meggs said that toxicology reports show the accuser had a blood alcohol level of .04 and that there was no evidence of drugs, including what are commonly referred to as date rape drugs.


I'm not saying she was or wasn't and I have no fan affiliation to FSU.  It just seems like she couldn't provide enough details to investigators about what happened.....if you believe what was released by authorities.
 
2013-12-05 04:16:24 PM  

meanmutton: BiffDangler: It's actually a very thoughtfully written article and I agree 100%.  If Auburn wins this week they should most def. be in the title game.

It's a rationalization that excludes the single most important reason why Auburn doesn't deserve to be in that game.


But that's the point. Maybe the most important reason might be relatively unimportait this time. Based on those stats, I'd say c vs. e for the final match, before I saw the teams. But nobody wants to see the sec finals twice, and this is coming from an lsu fan.

But these stats also tell us that any sec team in the final would probably crush the opponent.
 
2013-12-05 04:31:08 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: The blind resume test i'd like to see is, once all the ESPN hype is stripped away, does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

Again, quality of opponent comes into play, get back to us if they beat OSU or hold them to under 350 yards, the SEC took a beating this year because their conference is obviously down but that doesnt mean the big 10 cant take their beating because their conference is still down further than it was last year.

Losses matter.  A lot.  Multiple losses don't get to be waved away because you feel in your gut that someone else didn't play good enough.  The teams ahead of MSU have much uglier losses to far worse teams than MSU's loss (note the singular loss there) and those other teams all lost their games more recently than Sparty's September hiccup.   There is virtually no legit way that Sparty lands at #10 with their resume when compared to any of those 3.  Unless of course you have a multi-billion dollar hype machine that utterly dominates the conversation and greatly sways all future rankings by essentially telling every voter exactly how their preseason rankings should look.

The Big Ten's 3rd best team for all intents and purposes beat a team who may very well win the Pac 12 this weekend, if not for one of the most botched ref jobs I've ever seen.  That doesn't sound like something a weak conference does.  Perhaps the news of the Big 10's demise is a bit overstated.  Despite Iowa and Wisconsin having to play one of the most potent offenses in the country, they still boast top 10 defenses and Sparty will likely hold on to a top 5 spot despite what Ohio State does to them.  You can't just handwave that kind of stuff away because you don't like it.

Since you want to talk resumes, who the hell as South Carolina beat to justify a top 10 ranking with 2 losses?  Mizzou and.... mizzou and.... mizzou and..... no one.  Does a 3 point overtime win against Mizzou's backup freshman QB objectively negate 2 losses to mediocre/bad teams?  Only in SEC land.  Back here in reality, the answer is no.  No it does not negate those horrible blemishes on the gamecock's record.


You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.
 
2013-12-05 04:34:14 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.


Most of those offenses are ranked ahead of anything MSU played, you may want to rethink that argument, Mich St played teams outside of the top 40-50 and I saw 2-3 in the top 25 just glancing at FSUs teams.

You have now made me defend FSU and Mizzou, I need another shower.
 
2013-12-05 04:38:11 PM  

steamingpile: You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.


That's not really true.  They lost by a touchdown at Stanford, they're obviously a decent team.  They beat Arizona State, who doesn't stink.  Also beat post-Kiffin USC.  Of course, there's also the loss to Pitt on there, and a close game with wretched Purdue, so who the hell knows.
 
2013-12-05 04:48:37 PM  
I have a solution.  Let's just stop all the bickering and set up a national championship game between LSU and Duke.  Winner take all.
 
2013-12-05 04:48:47 PM  
here's something I stumbled across

Dec 7th 2012: general outline of events....though I'd share with alumni. Reply
It took place at JW apartment legacy suites. The girl lived in Kellum hall. She placed the call from Kellum hall meaning she got back to her dorm from his place (20 min walk). Jameis and Casher met them at Purgatory Thursdays at Potbellys (10 dollar AYCD). It was a one night stand kind of thing. they never meet before that night. There is text between her and her friend saying come out to Potbellys and hook up with these hot black guys. She has a history of hooking up with black guys.... Anyway they left to his place in cab from pots. Casher took pics or a vid which pissed her off. Jameis kicked her out because Breion was flying in and she got back to Kellum pissed and made the call. She apparently broke a few things on her way out. She knew jameis name but decided that leading cops to the apartment wasn't smart b/c she would get exposed. Once her family found out she had to keep up the lie and family pushed it to go through. She didnt want to pursue as she knew it as a lie. Meggs interviewed her and her story fell apart. The second witness other than Casher is believed to be a friend of hers who took part in a threesome with Jameis. The second witness identity is what has been hardest to come by and is my only not 100% fact. Some rumblings #2 is another player but I believe that is false. It isn't her roommate either who was out of town for the week. This girl is likely the girl who sent the text to her earlier and Introduced her to Jameis. This is as close to the truth as I have been able to get.

*** I will add though that there are rumblings of her claiming (at some point) two attackers because her panties came up with multiple Semen samples and she did not want to admit to sex with another boy (different night) to her parents.
**** also girl originally insulated she was potential drugged(another lie) TOX came back clean and she was also sober.


Fap
 
2013-12-05 04:58:22 PM  

steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.

Most of those offenses are ranked ahead of anything MSU played, you may want to rethink that argument, Mich St played teams outside of the top 40-50 and I saw 2-3 in the top 25 just glancing at FSUs teams.

You have now made me defend FSU and Mizzou, I need another shower.


First of all, the ACC has some of the most laughable defenses of any conference in the country, so offensive output is going to be skewed by virtue of there being nothing resembling actual defense played in that conference outside of FSU.  Secondly, you're either high as fark or incredibly stupid if you think FSU has played 2-3 great offenses.  They've played Clemson at #12 offensively, while MSU has #11 Indiana on their schedule so that's a wash.  The next best offense FSU faced is Miami sitting near 40 and then it's a who's who of rank 80 offenses.
 
2013-12-05 05:02:31 PM  

steamingpile: You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.


Stanford lost to worse and lost twice at that, SC lost to worse and lost twice as well.  To steal your oft misused little phrase, do try to keep up.

Also, "YOU' lost?  I'm not an MSU fan.  fark the whole state of michigan as far as i'm concerned.  Objective analysis is pretty clear though.  MSU should be ranked ahead of Stanford and SC and Baylor.  Any other way to rank it is bullshiat based on hype and spin.  Period.  Full stop.
 
2013-12-05 05:09:14 PM  
Those numbers seem to indicate it should be Mizzou and FSU. Don't know why you'd put Ohio State above FSU...yeah, they played a slightly tougher schedule...but FSU beat their slate senseless while tOSU had half the margin of victory they did. Alabama sure looks weak in that list, though.
 
2013-12-05 05:12:00 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.

Most of those offenses are ranked ahead of anything MSU played, you may want to rethink that argument, Mich St played teams outside of the top 40-50 and I saw 2-3 in the top 25 just glancing at FSUs teams.

You have now made me defend FSU and Mizzou, I need another shower.

First of all, the ACC has some of the most laughable defenses of any conference in the country, so offensive output is going to be skewed by virtue of there being nothing resembling actual defense played in that conference outside of FSU.  Secondly, you're either high as fark or incredibly stupid if you think FSU has played 2-3 great offenses.  They've played Clemson at #12 offensively, while MSU has #11 Indiana on their schedule so that's a wash.  The next best offense FSU faced is Miami sitting near 40 and then it's a who's who of rank 80 offenses.


Way to move the goalposts.....

Either way the big 10 does not have great teams or defenses this year so you're really arguing a point that you can't win. Fact remains using season stats Mich St is not the great defense you make them out to be.
 
2013-12-05 05:16:20 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.

Stanford lost to worse and lost twice at that, SC lost to worse and lost twice as well.  To steal your oft misused little phrase, do try to keep up.

Also, "YOU' lost?  I'm not an MSU fan.  fark the whole state of michigan as far as i'm concerned.  Objective analysis is pretty clear though.  MSU should be ranked ahead of Stanford and SC and Baylor.  Any other way to rank it is bullshiat based on hype and spin.  Period.  Full stop.


I dont give a shiat who you root for but the weak big 10 is not strong enough to move them into the top 5 since I think any of the top 5 stomp Mich St.
 
2013-12-05 05:22:12 PM  

steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.

Most of those offenses are ranked ahead of anything MSU played, you may want to rethink that argument, Mich St played teams outside of the top 40-50 and I saw 2-3 in the top 25 just glancing at FSUs teams.

You have now made me defend FSU and Mizzou, I need another shower.

First of all, the ACC has some of the most laughable defenses of any conference in the country, so offensive output is going to be skewed by virtue of there being nothing resembling actual defense played in that conference outside of FSU.  Secondly, you're either high as fark or incredibly stupid if you think FSU has played 2-3 great offenses.  They've played Clemson at #12 offensively, while MSU has #11 Indiana on their schedule so that's a wash.  The next best offense FSU faced is Miami sitting near 40 and then it's a who's who of rank 80 offenses.

Way to move the goalposts.....

Either way the big 10 does not have great teams or defenses this year so you're really arguing a point that you can't win. Fact remains using season stats Mich St is not the great defense you make them out to be.


How is contradicting your completely false assertions moving the goalposts?  You claimed that FSU faced multiple top offenses and Sparty did not.  You were wrong.  The goalposts are right where they've always been, you just missed the kick as usual, to the surprise of absolutely no one.
 
2013-12-05 05:32:26 PM  
Jameis Winston still a non story
 
2013-12-05 05:37:58 PM  

doubled99: Jameis Winston still a non story


How do you figure?


Interesting. An excerpt regarding Casher's statement from the official report:

Once back at their apartment (Casher and Winston were roommates), the female and Winston went into Winston's bedroom. After about 10 minutes Casher and Darby peeked in the room and saw the fem.ale performing oral sex on Winston. Casher stated the door to Winston's room was broken and did not latch closed. A few minutes later he watched as the female and Winston removed their own clothing and climbed on the bed and began to engage in sexual activity. Casher stated he went into the room to see if the female would engage in sexual activity with him as well (as has happened with other females he and Winston have brought back to their apartment); however, the female saw him and told him to get out. A little while later, Casher stated he tried to video tape Winston and the female; however, when the female saw him she again told him to leave. The female then turned off the light and went with Winston into the bathroom.
 
2013-12-05 05:41:26 PM  

jasimo: doubled99: Jameis Winston still a non story

How do you figure?



I'm guessing he means "still not a greenlit headline"
 
2013-12-05 05:43:48 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: flak attack: Spaced Cowboy: does the 1 loss team with the top defense in the country still land at a laughable #10 or do they rightfully fall in the top 5 like they damn well should.

FSU already is ranked #1.

LOLWUT.  FSU is now a 1 loss team with the best defense in the country?  Pretty sure they are neither of those things.  I've seen FSU as high as #4 in total defense, but they play in the freaking ACC against a pile of incredibly bad offenses.

Most of those offenses are ranked ahead of anything MSU played, you may want to rethink that argument, Mich St played teams outside of the top 40-50 and I saw 2-3 in the top 25 just glancing at FSUs teams.

You have now made me defend FSU and Mizzou, I need another shower.

First of all, the ACC has some of the most laughable defenses of any conference in the country, so offensive output is going to be skewed by virtue of there being nothing resembling actual defense played in that conference outside of FSU.  Secondly, you're either high as fark or incredibly stupid if you think FSU has played 2-3 great offenses.  They've played Clemson at #12 offensively, while MSU has #11 Indiana on their schedule so that's a wash.  The next best offense FSU faced is Miami sitting near 40 and then it's a who's who of rank 80 offenses.

Way to move the goalposts.....

Either way the big 10 does not have great teams or defenses this year so you're really arguing a point that you can't win. Fact remains using season stats Mich St is not the great defense you make them out to be.

How is contradicting your completely false assertions moving the goalposts?  You claimed that FSU faced multiple top offenses and Sparty did not.  You were wrong.  The goalposts are right where they've always been, you just missed the kick as usual, to the surprise of absolutely no one.


No I didnt, I said using the same stats they faced more high powered offense, your assertion that means Mich St faced better offenses than the weak ACC.

You started arguing one way then changed, I didnt change shiat, my assertion is the big 10 is crap this year and that hasn't been disputed.
 
2013-12-05 05:45:07 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: MSU should be ranked ahead of Stanford and SC and Baylor.  Any other way to rank it is bullshiat based on hype and spin.  Period.  Full stop.


Stanford and SC both have two losses but Baylor and MSU both only have one loss each... when you consider that Baylor lost to a stronger opponent and plays in a stronger conference it is not hard to understand why they are ranked ahead of MSU.
 
2013-12-05 05:48:35 PM  

steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.

Stanford lost to worse and lost twice at that, SC lost to worse and lost twice as well.  To steal your oft misused little phrase, do try to keep up.

Also, "YOU' lost?  I'm not an MSU fan.  fark the whole state of michigan as far as i'm concerned.  Objective analysis is pretty clear though.  MSU should be ranked ahead of Stanford and SC and Baylor.  Any other way to rank it is bullshiat based on hype and spin.  Period.  Full stop.

I dont give a shiat who you root for but the weak big 10 is not strong enough to move them into the top 5 since I think any of the top 5 stomp Mich St.


Oh well since the single most incorrect guy on all of Fark Sports has a gut feeling that MSU is bad, that settles it.  Most people would have to put a lot of effort into being as frequently wrong as you are.  It's a pretty safe bet to just take the opposite of what you're spewing and slap a truth label on it.  Odds would certainly favor that approach.
 
2013-12-05 05:50:43 PM  

wxboy: jasimo: doubled99: Jameis Winston still a non story

How do you figure?


I'm guessing he means "still not a greenlit headline"


Ah. Brain not work some time.

It IS incredible that Fark, a discussion/opinion site, doesn't have a greenlit thread on such a gigantic story four hours after it broke. Probably illustrative of why I hardly ever visit here anymore. Get your heads out of your asses, mods.
 
2013-12-05 05:53:32 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: You are Georgia Bulldawg troll so therefore I am correct.


wow, you are good... you should try the Politics tab, they'd love you!
 
2013-12-05 05:57:39 PM  

Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: Spaced Cowboy: steamingpile: You lost to a shiatty ND team who got their asses kicked by every other decent team they played.

Stanford lost to worse and lost twice at that, SC lost to worse and lost twice as well.  To steal your oft misused little phrase, do try to keep up.

Also, "YOU' lost?  I'm not an MSU fan.  fark the whole state of michigan as far as i'm concerned.  Objective analysis is pretty clear though.  MSU should be ranked ahead of Stanford and SC and Baylor.  Any other way to rank it is bullshiat based on hype and spin.  Period.  Full stop.

I dont give a shiat who you root for but the weak big 10 is not strong enough to move them into the top 5 since I think any of the top 5 stomp Mich St.

Oh well since the single most incorrect guy on all of Fark Sports has a gut feeling that MSU is bad, that settles it.  Most people would have to put a lot of effort into being as frequently wrong as you are.  It's a pretty safe bet to just take the opposite of what you're spewing and slap a truth label on it.  Odds would certainly favor that approach.


They lost to a shiatty ND and that defense you are touting put up almost 400 yards against them, 150 yards over their average.

Quit acting like their defense is some kind of brick wall and worthy of jumping into the top 5 just to help OSU. They are butt average in a year when the big 10 is shiatty, christ just admit it and move on, your continued defense after your argument has been torn apart just reinforces that you're trying to convince yourself.
 
2013-12-05 06:00:30 PM  

jasimo: It IS incredible that Fark, a discussion/opinion site, doesn't have a greenlit thread on such a gigantic story four hours after it broke. Probably illustrative of why I hardly ever visit here anymore. Get your heads out of your asses, mods.


i792.photobucket.com

This is not news.  Dog Bits Man is not breaking news but Man Bits Dog well that will get some clicks.

It would be news if they prosecuted him.  Nobody expects a football-crazed town to charge the ever-present football player rapist.  ... You know the old song ....

Another Mikey took a knife while arguing in traffic
Flipper died a natural death he caught a nasty virus 
Then there was the ever-present football player rapist
They were all in love with dying they were doin' it in Texas 
Holly caught a bullet but it only hit his leg 
While it should have been a better shot he got him in the head 
They were all in love with dying they were drinkin' from a fountian 
That was pouring like an avalance coming down the mountian
 
2013-12-05 06:06:54 PM  
Fark gets  money through clicks.

This is a big story a lot of people are interested in and have been following.

It's stupid for them not to greenlight a story on this. There have been other Jameis threads, why not one on the news that he won't be charged.

To say that Fark only covers man-bites-dog stories is ridiculous.
 
2013-12-05 06:13:20 PM  

jasimo: Fark gets  money through clicks.

This is a big story a lot of people are interested in and have been following.

It's stupid for them not to greenlight a story on this. There have been other Jameis threads, why not one on the news that he won't be charged.

To say that Fark only covers man-bites-dog stories is ridiculous.


Nobody cares about FSU, its not nearly as big as Mandela dying.
 
2013-12-05 06:16:50 PM  

steamingpile: jasimo: Fark gets  money through clicks.

This is a big story a lot of people are interested in and have been following.

It's stupid for them not to greenlight a story on this. There have been other Jameis threads, why not one on the news that he won't be charged.

To say that Fark only covers man-bites-dog stories is ridiculous.

Nobody cares about FSU, its not nearly as big as Mandela dying.


There's that but also when this story broke there haven't been very many Fark green lights, at least not on the sports tab.
 
2013-12-05 06:16:50 PM  
Who's Mandela?
 
2013-12-05 06:18:48 PM  

jasimo: How do you figure?


Interesting. An excerpt regarding Casher's statement from the official report:

Once back at their apartment (Casher and Winston were roommates), the female and Winston went into Winston's bedroom. After about 10 minutes Casher and Darby peeked in the room and saw the fem.ale performing oral sex on Winston. Casher stated the door to Winston's room was broken and did not latch closed. A few minutes later he watched as the female and Winston removed their own clothing and climbed on the bed and began to engage in sexual activity. Casher stated he went into the room to see if the female would engage in sexual activity with him as well (as has happened with other females he and Winston have brought back to their apartment); however, the female saw him and told him to get out. A little while later, Casher stated he tried to video tape Winston and the female; however, when the female saw him she again told him to leave. The female then turned off the light and went with Winston into the bathroom.



It's a non-story because TPD has now released its documents on the case, and everybody can now see the girl was completely full of shiat.  She had multiple stories of the incident, all of which were completely torpedoed by the DNA results, toxicology reports and physical exam at the hospital.

The only story here is that a dumb college kid lied to the cops about farking a football player.  TPD not only didn't cover it up, its investigation was just fine.
 
2013-12-05 06:33:19 PM  

PluckYew: steamingpile: jasimo: Fark gets  money through clicks.

This is a big story a lot of people are interested in and have been following.

It's stupid for them not to greenlight a story on this. There have been other Jameis threads, why not one on the news that he won't be charged.

To say that Fark only covers man-bites-dog stories is ridiculous.

Nobody cares about FSU, its not nearly as big as Mandela dying.

There's that but also when this story broke there haven't been very many Fark green lights, at least not on the sports tab.


Well yeah but tpd didnt do themselves any favors by not communicating earlier in the year, the long wait seemed like a cover up right or not.

Now that more information has come out it seems like she's a ho who got caught when daddy thought she was a little princess.
 
2013-12-05 06:38:17 PM  
From the TPD report:

This case was left in suspended status because probable cause could not be established given the 
conflicting statements between what the victim told her friends and what was reported to police. In 
addition, the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time. Based on these facts and the 
fact it did not meet statutory requirements for prosecutorial review (domestic related incidents), the case 
was not submitted to the Office of the State Attorney. My Sergeant and Lieutenant were both aware 
and in agreement with this decision in February 2013. 

On November 12, 2013, we were made aware that a media source was inquiring about the investigation 
and was requesting documents pertaining to the case. On November 12, 2013 I was directed to notify 
the Office of the State Attorney of the case for the sole purpose of making them aware in case they 
were to receive requests for information. After discussing the
 
2013-12-05 06:43:20 PM  

jasimo: From the TPD report:

This case was left in suspended status because probable cause could not be established given the 
conflicting statements between what the victim told her friends and what was reported to police. In 
addition, the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time. Based on these facts and the 
fact it did not meet statutory requirements for prosecutorial review (domestic related incidents), the case 
was not submitted to the Office of the State Attorney. My Sergeant and Lieutenant were both aware 
and in agreement with this decision in February 2013. 

On November 12, 2013, we were made aware that a media source was inquiring about the investigation 
and was requesting documents pertaining to the case. On November 12, 2013 I was directed to notify 
the Office of the State Attorney of the case for the sole purpose of making them aware in case they 
were to receive requests for information. After discussing the


Yeah I read all that but they did not communicate it with the family, the story that was put out was the girls attorney only found out about it from the prosecutor in October. They should have let the 'victim' know at the same time and the reasons, it only seems fair.
 
2013-12-05 06:53:27 PM  

steamingpile: jasimo: From the TPD report:

This case was left in suspended status because probable cause could not be established given the
conflicting statements between what the victim told her friends and what was reported to police. In
addition, the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time. Based on these facts and the
fact it did not meet statutory requirements for prosecutorial review (domestic related incidents), the case
was not submitted to the Office of the State Attorney. My Sergeant and Lieutenant were both aware
and in agreement with this decision in February 2013.

On November 12, 2013, we were made aware that a media source was inquiring about the investigation
and was requesting documents pertaining to the case. On November 12, 2013 I was directed to notify
the Office of the State Attorney of the case for the sole purpose of making them aware in case they
were to receive requests for information. After discussing the

Yeah I read all that but they did not communicate it with the family, the story that was put out was the girls attorney only found out about it from the prosecutor in October. They should have let the 'victim' know at the same time and the reasons, it only seems fair.


"the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time."

If the report is true, she knew back then:
"Do you want to purue criminal charges?"
"No."
"Okay, have a nice day."

I think it's more ass-covering by her.
 
2013-12-05 07:09:03 PM  

jasimo: steamingpile: jasimo: From the TPD report:

This case was left in suspended status because probable cause could not be established given the
conflicting statements between what the victim told her friends and what was reported to police. In
addition, the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time. Based on these facts and the
fact it did not meet statutory requirements for prosecutorial review (domestic related incidents), the case
was not submitted to the Office of the State Attorney. My Sergeant and Lieutenant were both aware
and in agreement with this decision in February 2013.

On November 12, 2013, we were made aware that a media source was inquiring about the investigation
and was requesting documents pertaining to the case. On November 12, 2013 I was directed to notify
the Office of the State Attorney of the case for the sole purpose of making them aware in case they
were to receive requests for information. After discussing the

Yeah I read all that but they did not communicate it with the family, the story that was put out was the girls attorney only found out about it from the prosecutor in October. They should have let the 'victim' know at the same time and the reasons, it only seems fair.

"the victim was unwilling to pursue criminal charges at that time."

If the report is true, she knew back then:
"Do you want to purue criminal charges?"
"No."
"Okay, have a nice day."

I think it's more ass-covering by her.


I agree but again the cops should have sat her down and explained what they found to say they know it didnt happen like that then give her the option of dropping it or they can tell the attorney/parents at the same time.

The cops should have squashed it right then instead of letting it drags out.
 
2013-12-05 07:15:42 PM  

steamingpile: supageil: I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?

Or you could argue how much special treatment athletes get when in school? It looks worse when they were in an undefeated season and most of the biggest questions people have is if he would have been arrested if they were a 4 loss team.

flak attack: FSU already is ranked #1.

He means YPG which is Mich State, problem is they only played or two defenses in the top 70 in the nation so that holds little weight, FSU just played a bunch of bad red zone teams.


Yes, I meant we should have a discussion about preferential treatment of athletes. That is exactly what I meant. Amazingly enough, people have and that thought besides you.

There are lots of angles here, shiat that needs to be brought up and dealt with. The per capita crime rate in Tallahassee is pretty bad. Living there for almost a decade, you hear some horror stories of rapes (remember the one in the university library?) and attempted assaults. There's also a sick and money-grubbing culture in some scenes. And yes, the cops DO botch things there. This could be a, what do they call them, teachable moment, both for folks in Tallahassee and observers around the country.

Instead we're all just gonna watch the Noles put the hurt on Duke, and just try to put the whole thing behind us.

I'm usually the one backing the alleged rape victim--that shiat happens FAR more often than is ever reported, and it takes guts to go to the cops. Which is why, if this woman lied, I'm pissed as hell. Too many actual victims aren't believed. I never thought he did it, though. I hate how this whole thing is exactly the type of event that sets the national conversation on rape back a mile.
 
2013-12-05 07:19:16 PM  

steamingpile: I agree but again the cops should have sat her down and explained what they found to say they know it didnt happen like that then give her the option of dropping it or they can tell the attorney/parents at the same time.

The cops should have squashed it right then instead of letting it drags out.


TPD doesn't exactly have a good record recently.  This screw-up is way down on the list of the things they've done wrong in the last year.

http://www.thestate.com/2013/11/24/3119925/police-handling-winston-c as e-has.html
 
2013-12-05 07:29:23 PM  

meanmutton: BiffDangler: It's actually a very thoughtfully written article and I agree 100%.  If Auburn wins this week they should most def. be in the title game.

It's a rationalization that excludes the single most important reason why Auburn doesn't deserve to be in that game.


So Northern Illinois should have an automatic route to the title game then?
 
2013-12-05 07:32:02 PM  

wxboy: steamingpile: I agree but again the cops should have sat her down and explained what they found to say they know it didnt happen like that then give her the option of dropping it or they can tell the attorney/parents at the same time.

The cops should have squashed it right then instead of letting it drags out.

TPD doesn't exactly have a good record recently.  This screw-up is way down on the list of the things they've done wrong in the last year.

http://www.thestate.com/2013/11/24/3119925/police-handling-winston-c as e-has.html


Wow they set a new standard for inept police work.
 
2013-12-05 08:22:06 PM  
So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?
 
2013-12-05 08:29:43 PM  

FLMountainMan: So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?


Yes I have multiple family members in law enforcement and no you dont have to inform the media every move you make. But what you do accomplish is tell the victim and their lawyer, not let them hear it from a 3rd party.
 
2013-12-05 08:33:48 PM  

steamingpile: FLMountainMan: So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?

Yes I have multiple family members in law enforcement and no you dont have to inform the media every move you make. But what you do accomplish is tell the victim and their lawyer, not let them hear it from a 3rd party.


You have to tell the victim who doesn't want to press charges that you're not going to press charges?
 
2013-12-05 09:03:49 PM  

FLMountainMan: steamingpile: FLMountainMan: So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?

Yes I have multiple family members in law enforcement and no you dont have to inform the media every move you make. But what you do accomplish is tell the victim and their lawyer, not let them hear it from a 3rd party.

You have to tell the victim who doesn't want to press charges that you're not going to press charges?


Did you read the article that has been linked? She never said that, and even if she doesn't want to press charges you speak or send over certified copies to the attorneys.
 
2013-12-05 09:25:38 PM  

steamingpile: FLMountainMan: steamingpile: FLMountainMan: So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?

Yes I have multiple family members in law enforcement and no you dont have to inform the media every move you make. But what you do accomplish is tell the victim and their lawyer, not let them hear it from a 3rd party.

You have to tell the victim who doesn't want to press charges that you're not going to press charges?

Did you read the article that has been linked? She never said that, and even if she doesn't want to press charges you speak or send over certified copies to the attorneys.


She didn't have an attorney that they knew of when the decision was made. Her attorney didn't come into play until way after that decision was made by the police.
 
2013-12-05 09:42:50 PM  

ongbok: steamingpile: FLMountainMan: steamingpile: FLMountainMan: So the police should notify the public every time someone doesn't get charged with rape?  Don't you think that's kind of scary?  Have any of you ever dealt with the police?  Or had a family member?

Yes I have multiple family members in law enforcement and no you dont have to inform the media every move you make. But what you do accomplish is tell the victim and their lawyer, not let them hear it from a 3rd party.

You have to tell the victim who doesn't want to press charges that you're not going to press charges?

Did you read the article that has been linked? She never said that, and even if she doesn't want to press charges you speak or send over certified copies to the attorneys.

She didn't have an attorney that they knew of when the decision was made. Her attorney didn't come into play until way after that decision was made by the police.


According to every article her attorney was in contact with the police and never heard back, then heard about it from another attorney. Its a lack of communication and at the least the police let the victim or her parents know if she's a minor, it alleviates bullshiat like this and doesn't give the sense of any cover up.

I'm not defending her, I think she's a liar, the problem is their procedure needs to be updated. Like my old boss used to write on every paper 'cyoa' which just means document everything to 'cover your ass'.
 
2013-12-05 10:27:54 PM  

steamingpile: supageil: I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?

Or you could argue how much special treatment athletes get when in school? It looks worse when they were in an undefeated season and most of the biggest questions people have is if he would have been arrested if they were a 4 loss team.

flak attack: FSU already is ranked #1.

He means YPG which is Mich State, problem is they only played or two defenses in the top 70 in the nation so that holds little weight, FSU just played a bunch of bad red zone teams.


On the other hand, most of the FSU games were already won in the first half and the second halves were played by the second and third string guys. But arguments like yours is the reason that I hope the next best team does end up playing FSU in the <whatever> bowl. It's going to be interesting to come back here in a few weeks and read all of the "now you're all going to see how over-rated FSU is!" It might be nice to save names and dates for strictly historical purposes.
 
2013-12-05 10:33:27 PM  

Leonard Washington: here's something I stumbled across

Dec 7th 2012: general outline of events....though I'd share with alumni. Reply
It took place at JW apartment legacy suites. The girl lived in Kellum hall. She placed the call from Kellum hall meaning she got back to her dorm from his place (20 min walk). Jameis and Casher met them at Purgatory Thursdays at Potbellys (10 dollar AYCD). It was a one night stand kind of thing. they never meet before that night. There is text between her and her friend saying come out to Potbellys and hook up with these hot black guys. She has a history of hooking up with black guys.... Anyway they left to his place in cab from pots. Casher took pics or a vid which pissed her off. Jameis kicked her out because Breion was flying in and she got back to Kellum pissed and made the call. She apparently broke a few things on her way out. She knew jameis name but decided that leading cops to the apartment wasn't smart b/c she would get exposed. Once her family found out she had to keep up the lie and family pushed it to go through. She didnt want to pursue as she knew it as a lie. Meggs interviewed her and her story fell apart. The second witness other than Casher is believed to be a friend of hers who took part in a threesome with Jameis. The second witness identity is what has been hardest to come by and is my only not 100% fact. Some rumblings #2 is another player but I believe that is false. It isn't her roommate either who was out of town for the week. This girl is likely the girl who sent the text to her earlier and Introduced her to Jameis. This is as close to the truth as I have been able to get.

*** I will add though that there are rumblings of her claiming (at some point) two attackers because her panties came up with multiple Semen samples and she did not want to admit to sex with another boy (different night) to her parents.
**** also girl originally insulated she was potential drugged(another lie) TOX came back clean and she was also sober.

Fap


Don't forget the semen samples. One on her face was from her then boy friend (some guy in Ohio -- Kent State IIRC), one (also face) was from Winston. The vaginal/cervix swabs were negative for any "DNA" (coff coff), but the anal swab came back with DNA from "an as-yet unidentified source."

Just saying.
 
2013-12-05 11:19:39 PM  

Diagonal: steamingpile: supageil: I dunno, because it really farking matters to tens of thousands of students and fans?

And should be part of a larger conversation on athletes' treatment, media bias, how this country deals with rape accusations, sexism, racism, and the deep suckitude of the TPD?

Or you could argue how much special treatment athletes get when in school? It looks worse when they were in an undefeated season and most of the biggest questions people have is if he would have been arrested if they were a 4 loss team.

flak attack: FSU already is ranked #1.

He means YPG which is Mich State, problem is they only played or two defenses in the top 70 in the nation so that holds little weight, FSU just played a bunch of bad red zone teams.

On the other hand, most of the FSU games were already won in the first half and the second halves were played by the second and third string guys. But arguments like yours is the reason that I hope the next best team does end up playing FSU in the <whatever> bowl. It's going to be interesting to come back here in a few weeks and read all of the "now you're all going to see how over-rated FSU is!" It might be nice to save names and dates for strictly historical purposes.


Oh FSU is over rated but it doesn't matter they are undefeated and in the game as long as Duke just plays like Duke.

Congrats FSU, at least you earned it.
 
2013-12-06 01:24:33 AM  
So how bad does OSU get beat by FSU?  It might just get as bad as last year.
 
2013-12-06 08:25:23 AM  

steamingpile: According to every article her attorney was in contact with the police and never heard back, then heard about it from another attorney. Its a lack of communication and at the least the police let the victim or her parents know if she's a minor, it alleviates bullshiat like this and doesn't give the sense of any cover up.


What you're saying is untrue, and even if it is, is completely ridiculous.  Think about what you're saying -

She had an attorney from the get-go. (false, but we'll go with it)
Decides to press charges (false, but again, we'll go with it).
Police engage in secret coverup because saving the career of a freshman college football player is worth their own career.
Attorney "never hears back".
Thirteen months go by, attorney finally says "okay, the alleged victim has moved out of state and over a year has passed, I better see how this investigation is going."

I'm not defending her, I think she's a liar, the problem is their procedure needs to be updated. Like my old boss used to write on every paper 'cyoa' which just means document everything to 'cover your ass'.

Read the police report.
 
2013-12-06 08:51:58 AM  
School  Team A   Team B   Team C   Team D   Team E
  Opp. Winning Percentage  .506  .496  .604  .493  .569
  Total Margin of Victory (Season)  259  238  134  464  188
  Margin of Victory per Game  23.54  23.80  12.18  42.18  17.09
  Current BCS Top 25 Opp.  2  3  5  2  4
  Coaches' Top 25 Opp. At Time  3  4  6  4  6
  Top 50 BCS Opp. Played  4  6  8  2  6
  Sub-75 BCS Opp. Played  3  4  2  4  1
  Avg. Current BCS Rank of Opp.  59.25  57.00  41.75  62.16  46.66


Once you take the names off the teams and you strip them of their current rankings (which have been impacted by their preseason rank), things boil down to a simple choice between two options.


Well, and once you take away their Win-Loss record.  That's kinda a big omission.
 
2013-12-06 09:56:47 AM  

lennavan: School  Team A   Team B   Team C   Team D   Team E
  Opp. Winning Percentage  .506  .496  .604  .493  .569
  Total Margin of Victory (Season)  259  238  134  464  188
  Margin of Victory per Game  23.54  23.80  12.18  42.18  17.09
  Current BCS Top 25 Opp.  2  3  5  2  4
  Coaches' Top 25 Opp. At Time  3  4  6  4  6
  Top 50 BCS Opp. Played  4  6  8  2  6
  Sub-75 BCS Opp. Played  3  4  2  4  1
  Avg. Current BCS Rank of Opp.  59.25  57.00  41.75  62.16  46.66

Once you take the names off the teams and you strip them of their current rankings (which have been impacted by their preseason rank), things boil down to a simple choice between two options.

Well, and once you take away their Win-Loss record.  That's kinda a big omission.


His "Margin of Victory per Game" has one HUGE flaw. He reduces the points in the losses, but then only divides by the total wins. So, if a team completely blew out an FCS school as like 50-1, and lost 11 more games by a few points apiece, they would have an amazing margin of victory per game. He needs to divide that number by the total number of games. For Alabama, he only divided by 10 instead of 11, again trying to keep consistent with his math.

Just for grins I compiled ASUs stats and their numbers could easily put them in the #2 spot:
Opp. Winning Percentage .5931
Total Margin of Victory (Season) 221
Margin of Victory per Game 22.1 (by his math), or 18.41 by real math
Current BCS Top 25 Opp. 3
Coaches' Top 25 Opp. At Time 4
Top 50 BCS Opp. Played 7
Sub-75 BCS Opp. Played 2
Avg. Current BCS Rank of Opp. 41.6

So yeah, he's an SEC Homer.
 
2013-12-06 09:59:11 AM  

I'm Gonna Git You Sucka: So how bad does OSU get beat by FSU?  It might just get as bad as last year.


Well, Clemson and Ohio St are nearly identical in terms of points and total yards allowed.  Ohio St allows a lot more of their yards in the air, though.  I'd say smart money says FSU puts up 45+ on them and lets in about ~20.
 
2013-12-06 10:11:04 AM  

Ponzholio: Team F

Opp. Win Percentage- .6738
Total margin of victory- 204
Margin of victory per game- 17
Current BCS top 25- 6
Top 25 at time- 5
Top 50 BCS- 7
Sub 75 BCS- 5

That's right, your 6-6 Mississippi State Bulldogs should be playing for the national championship. They played 6 top 25 BCS schools... sure they lost them all, but that's beside the point, however they did beat #37 ranked Bowling Green by 1 point. But they beat the crap out of Troy and Alcorn State to pump up their margin of victory stats.


You're under selling it man. According to the math at the site, the Margin of Victory per game of the Bulldogs is 34. He's only dividing the margin of victory by the total number of wins, not the total number of games.
 
2013-12-06 10:30:58 AM  

flak attack: 8 teams.  SEC, Big #, Pac 12 and ACC conference winners + 3 wildcards, chosen with the BCS formula, max 1 wildcard per conference.  Seed by BCS standings.

For 2012, that would give:
(1) Notre Dame*
(2) Alabama
(3) Florida*
(4) Oregon*
(5) Kansas St
(6) Stanford
(12) FSU
(NR) Wisconsin

2011:
(1) LSU
(2) Alabama*
(3) Oklahoma St
(4) Stanford*
(5) Oregon
(7) Boise St.*
(10) Wisconsin
(15) Clemson

2010:
(1) Auburn
(2) Oregon
(3) TCU*
(4) Stanford*
(5) Wisconsin*
(6) Ohio St
(7) Oklahoma
(13) VT

Make it longer than 3 rounds and you're increasing the likelihood of injury to a player on a team that's actually a championship contender in a game against a team that really has no business being in the bracket.  Even as it is, some of these teams aren't serious contenders (2012 Wisconsin, I'm looking at you)


I like this. Just one very sad note - I read (13) VT as "Vermont". Doesn't say much for Va Tech's football program.
 
2013-12-06 01:22:56 PM  

flak attack: Well, Clemson and Ohio St are nearly identical in terms of points and total yards allowed.  Ohio St allows a lot more of their yards in the air, though.  I'd say smart money says FSU puts up 45+ on them and lets in about ~20.


Can't look at it that way, because they play different styles against different teams.  The advanced metrics that adjust for opponent say OSU is a bit better on offense (5th vs 17th), while Clemson is a bit better on defense (14th vs 27th).

(An aside:  Clemson's numbers on defense are wacky, because FSU and South Carolina each basically had Tajh Boyd lying in the fetal position by the end of the game.  Can't really fault CU's D when the QB is turning the ball over constantly in their only two losses.)

Getting back to the advanced metrics:  It doesn't make a lot of sense to say -- taking an extreme example -- that all Pac-12 defenses are shiat based on total yards.  Some of them are shiat, some aren't, but total yards is worthless in evaluating it.  When your opponents run more hurry-up, there's going to be more plays/possessions, so you're going to give up more yards in total over the season.
 
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