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(WorldNetDaily)   Americans are right to be wary of Pope Francis. His religious philosophy is a result of KGB influence in Latin America   (wnd.com) divider line 378
    More: Scary, Pope Francis, Latin American, KGB, Americans, KGB influence, Pope Pius XII, trickle-down economics, economic power  
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2112 clicks; posted to Politics » on 04 Dec 2013 at 1:04 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-04 02:19:52 PM
Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards
 
2013-12-04 02:20:07 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: They're actually scared of this guy, aren't they?


In all fairness they'd also be terrified if they really thought Jesus was real and speaking the truth...
 
2013-12-04 02:21:36 PM

BojanglesPaladin: technicolor-misfit: Okay, they hate helping the poor in ways in which they can't put personal strings on it.

True. FSM knows there are no strings whatsoever when the government helps the poor.



What are they?

Show your income, prove you're trying to find a job or improve your situation?

What are the strings when the government helps the poor?
 
2013-12-04 02:21:56 PM

Serious Black: BojanglesPaladin: Weaver95: The evangelicals are cool with the pro life thing but they really hate the thought of helping the poor.

Through the government. They really hate the thought of government help for the poor.

I can't personally stand most of the evengelicals, but they do quite a bit of charity work. (Not as much as the catholic church, mind you, but then, who does?)

I understand that you may not like them, but it's disingenuous to say they hate helping the poor.

If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.


The religious right's Calvinism is astonishing. I can't imagine how smug and self-satisfied these people must be. It's disgusting.
 
2013-12-04 02:22:25 PM

simplicimus: skullkrusher: So he lives large while the duped massed slave away in service to the God-state? Actually that makes sense

What are you a commie, talking that marxist stuff?


If the fur hat fits...
 
2013-12-04 02:22:29 PM

A Dark Evil Omen: You know, I have worked in charity and social justice work across this country for a farking decade, and I have never met any evangelical Christians in it at all. I've met lots of left-wing Christians. Met lots of Catholics. Lots of atheists and Buddhists and even the occasional Muslim. I've only ever run into evangelical Christians in cases where they were proselytizing to disadvantaged people by offering weak "aid" with strings attached and our groups had to step in and provide real help to their victims.


I can't speak to your experience, but I notice you simultaneously say you've never found them in charity work where you were at the same time you say you have found them doing charity work in a way you don't like.

FWIW, they tend to be exclusionary in their charity work - meaning Baptist charity groups usuallyy only want fellow Baptists and it is often done through a specific congregation, so unless you were already part of the group, you would be unlikely to be working side by side. (wasn't there an article a few weeks ago about a soup kitchen that told atheists they were "not needed'?). Catholics and most other groups don't concern themselves with that kind of thing, because the GOAL is the helping. I have helped an evangelical charity, but only because I was invited along by a cousin (and presumably because I left my FSM t-shirt at home that day).

ALL I am saying is that it is disingenuous to say they "hate helping the poor". Quite the opposite. They just don't do it in a way we might like.

And not to get too persnickety, but all of you who are yelling that Jesus told Christians to help the poor should also remember that he very specifically ALSO told them to spread the word of Christ.

I may find them to be pompous and obnoxious in the way they go about it, but proselytizing when helping the poor is not "un-Christian".
 
2013-12-04 02:26:02 PM

Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.


I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)

Tripp Johnston Private Eye: Private charities, while certainly better than nothing, cannot solve the structural causes of poverty.


Nor, clearly, can government.
 
2013-12-04 02:26:05 PM

SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards


Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.


Sincerely,

A Socialist
 
2013-12-04 02:27:10 PM

Rev. Skarekroe: They're actually scared of this guy, aren't they?


Modern American conservatives have essentially tied efforts to increase income inequality to their religious beliefs.  So yeah, Pope Francis ruins a lot of their moral ideas regarding wealth and poverty when he suggests that being poor *might just not* be because God is punishing them for being bad people.

Republicans have allowed themselves to believe that the poor deserve to be poor as a result of some moral failings, and Francis is a direct threat to that tradition.
 
2013-12-04 02:28:07 PM

Great_Milenko: Serious question, what does Bill Donohue of the catholic League have to say about these attacks on the Pope?  He's usually right out front everytime anyone publically says anything even the slightest bit derogatory about Catholicism, but he's also a hard core right wing shiathead, so I imagine he's laying pretty low right now.


I was curious so I went looking. It turns out Donohue wrote an article for Newsmax on that speech that is driving conservative crazy and is, in fact, wholly supportive. He basically focuses on stuff he likes and brushes off stuff he doesn't. So he's happy the Pope is anti-abortion and doesn't like secularization. He works a little to infer that gay marriage is wrong. He translates "trickle-down sucks" into "well, try not to be greedy." He decides that the Pope's advice to look after the poor is naive because of the "cultural" problem of poverty (which I assume means people must be poor because of laziness and not institutional problems).

So he had to do some twisting but he's managed to accept the Pope's message, more or less.
 
2013-12-04 02:28:51 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)



You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

ARe you living under a rock?

/Hint: It god makes you rich because you are faithful/good, that kind of implies that if you're poor, you're just not being faithful/good enough.
 
2013-12-04 02:29:32 PM

BojanglesPaladin: I can't speak to your experience, but I notice you simultaneously say you've never found them in charity work where you were at the same time you say you have found them doing charity work in a way you don't like.


No, I'm saying targeting marginalized people for conversion using carrot-and-stick coercion in no way qualifies as charity let alone real help.
 
2013-12-04 02:30:23 PM

NateAsbestos: Rev. Skarekroe: They're actually scared of this guy, aren't they?

In all fairness they'd also be terrified if they really thought Jesus was real and speaking the truth...


Yes, indeed.

Conrad Hilton used to wake up in sweat-drenched terror at the dreams he had about being sent to hell.

He tried to leave 99% of his estate to several orders of nuns, but Barron Hilton (Paris' grandfather) made sure that shiat didn't happen. They fought that shiat out in court for YEARS.
 
2013-12-04 02:31:17 PM

simplicimus: Great_Milenko: Serious question, what does Bill Donohue of the catholic League have to say about these attacks on the Pope?  He's usually right out front everytime anyone publically says anything even the slightest bit derogatory about Catholicism, but he's also a hard core right wing shiathead, so I imagine he's laying pretty low right now.

All the CINOs are apparently laying low. Nobody expected a Jesuit Pope.


gretachristina.typepad.com

/hot
 
2013-12-04 02:32:25 PM

Felgraf: BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)


You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

ARe you living under a rock?

/Hint: It god makes you rich because you are faithful/good, that kind of implies that if you're poor, you're just not being faithful/good enough.


I'm surprised he hasn't encountered it either; it stems logically from Calvin's ideas and is a non-fringe idea in mainstream Protestantism.
 
2013-12-04 02:33:55 PM
I, for one, am fully looking forward to more violence between christians.  Evangelicals vs Catholics this time?  Awesome.  My support goes to the papists.  As much as I hate organized religion (congregationalist growing up), I  really hate the dominionist windbag evengelical throat stuffers.
 
2013-12-04 02:34:00 PM

Great_Milenko: Serious question, what does Bill Donohue of the catholic League have to say about these attacks on the Pope?  He's usually right out front everytime anyone publically says anything even the slightest bit derogatory about Catholicism, but he's also a hard core right wing shiathead, so I imagine he's laying pretty low right now.


Don't know about him in particular but I have to imagine a lot of prominent right-wing Catholics are stressing out over how to navigate this. Has Pat Buchanan had a stroke yet?

 

Mikey1969: According to Lt. Gen. Ion Pacepa, the Soviet communist-led idea of "social justice" was infiltrated successfully by the KGB into Latin America's Catholic Church as a religious movement called "liberation theology." The goal was to "incite Latin America's poor to rebel against the 'institutionalized violence of poverty' generated by the United States." (Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, "Disinformation," WND Books, 2013)

Look, the reference they cite is one of their OWN books...


I reckon that sounds like a pretty good plan.
 
2013-12-04 02:34:19 PM
Wow.


Just.......just WOW.
 
2013-12-04 02:35:55 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)


A number of the biggest Christian churches today preach that those who keep their faith in God will be financially rewarded. The flip side of that is that those who do not keep their faith in God will be financially punished.
 
2013-12-04 02:36:55 PM

Tripp Johnston Private Eye: Felgraf: BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)


You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

ARe you living under a rock?

/Hint: It god makes you rich because you are faithful/good, that kind of implies that if you're poor, you're just not being faithful/good enough.

I'm surprised he hasn't encountered it either; it stems logically from Calvin's ideas and is a non-fringe idea in mainstream Protestantism.


It also makes me frothingly *angry*. I'm not really sure I even count as a Christian anymore (I'm... not really sure WHAT I count as. Pratchettist?), but the prosperity gospel is such a perversion of the original work and message it just... really, really makes me angry. I think it in part has to do with the *willful* ignorance that must be part and parcel of it, since the bible rather explicitly states, repeatedly, *THAT IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY*.
 
2013-12-04 02:36:55 PM

Mikey1969: According to Lt. Gen. Ion Pacepa, the Soviet communist-led idea of "social justice" was infiltrated successfully by the KGB into Latin America's Catholic Church as a religious movement called "liberation theology." The goal was to "incite Latin America's poor to rebel against the 'institutionalized violence of poverty' generated by the United States." (Lt. Gen. Ion Mihai Pacepa, "Disinformation," WND Books, 2013)

Look, the reference they cite is one of their OWN books...


And end the article with links to purchase it. Get the bundle deal for only $29.95!

Personally I love that social justice is a KGB invention, despite the phrase originating in the 1840's from a Jesuit named Luigi Taparelli. Clearly the long game, seeing as he must have been discussing the idea with Karl Marx himself before the publication of the Communist Manifesto.

Ironically there is a grain of truth here: Pope Francis has expressed much more sympathy for liberation theology than Benedict did. However, Francis has been clear that he disagrees with it on that it is used as a basis of excusing or justifying violent acts.
 
2013-12-04 02:37:12 PM

odinsposse: So he had to do some twisting but he's managed to accept the Pope's message, more or less.


So the head of his Church is naive? Guess Francis just isn't as smart as he is.
 
2013-12-04 02:40:01 PM

FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards

Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.

Sincerely,

A Socialist


Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?
 
2013-12-04 02:40:17 PM

Princess Ryans Knickers: Soo.. they are saying that Jesus was KGB?


THIS GOES ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP, PEOPLE
 
2013-12-04 02:40:36 PM

Felgraf: Tripp Johnston Private Eye: Felgraf: BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)


You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

ARe you living under a rock?

/Hint: It god makes you rich because you are faithful/good, that kind of implies that if you're poor, you're just not being faithful/good enough.

I'm surprised he hasn't encountered it either; it stems logically from Calvin's ideas and is a non-fringe idea in mainstream Protestantism.

It also makes me frothingly *angry*. I'm not really sure I even count as a Christian anymore (I'm... not really sure WHAT I count as. Pratchettist?), but the prosperity gospel is such a perversion of the original work and message it just... really, really makes me angry. I think it in part has to do with the *willful* ignorance that must be part and parcel of it, since the bible rather explicitly states, repeatedly, *THAT IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY*.


I'm convinced some sort of Lovecraftian monstrosity from the darkest portion of the cosmos is manipulating the minds of American Christians into worshipping it while they still believe they are worshipping Christ.
 
2013-12-04 02:40:37 PM

skullkrusher: So he lives large while the duped massed slave away in service to the God-state? Actually that makes sense


Actually he lives in a small apartment; he declined to live in the traditional papal residence.
 
2013-12-04 02:41:56 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Republicans have allowed themselves to believe that the poor deserve to be poor as a result of some moral failings, and Francis is a direct threat to that tradition.


It's true that some people are poor because of their moral failings.  It's true that some people are poor due to the fault of no one.  But it is also true that some people are poor because of the moral failings of the wealthy.  How we deal with the poor, the weak, and the sick shows us what kind of people we are.

Not very pretty, is it?

/ reluctant republican
// hate both parties
/// Calvinist.
 
2013-12-04 02:42:58 PM

SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism



Social programs are not equal to Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or <insert any "-ism" that wing-nuts use incorrectly>.
 
2013-12-04 02:43:04 PM

SovietCanuckistan: Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?


No. A mixed economy is still a capitalist economy.  What you have there are concessions made to the working class.  They can (and probably will be) scaled back at some point.  Happens all the time.
 
2013-12-04 02:43:15 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)

Tripp Johnston Private Eye: Private charities, while certainly better than nothing, cannot solve the structural causes of poverty.

Nor, clearly, can government.


You should read The Protestant Work Ethic. It explains the concept quite clearly and how this idea has shaped the formation of modern American-style capitalism.
 
2013-12-04 02:43:23 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Serious Black: If your moral philosophy suggests that poor people are that way because God is punishing them for being sinful wretches, then you might hate the poor just a little bit.

I am not aware of any religious denomination that teaches that. Nor have I ever encountered anyone who has said that. (I have, however, seen a lot of people who say that OTHER people believe that.)


One would be forgiven for questioning the honesty with which you pursued this investigation.
 
2013-12-04 02:43:33 PM

Felgraf: You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?


Which denomination is that again?
 
2013-12-04 02:43:46 PM

Tripp Johnston Private Eye: I'm convinced some sort of Lovecraftian monstrosity from the darkest portion of the cosmos is manipulating the minds of American Christians into worshipping it while they still believe they are worshipping Christ.


I think that's part of the job description for the antichrist.
 
2013-12-04 02:44:47 PM

SovietCanuckistan: FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards

Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.

Sincerely,

A Socialist

Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?


No but it also doesn't make you a socialist country
 
2013-12-04 02:45:53 PM

FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?

No. A mixed economy is still a capitalist economy.  What you have there are concessions made to the working class.  They can (and probably will be) scaled back at some point.  Happens all the time.


One can only hope!
 
2013-12-04 02:48:22 PM

skullkrusher: FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?

No. A mixed economy is still a capitalist economy.  What you have there are concessions made to the working class.  They can (and probably will be) scaled back at some point.  Happens all the time.

One can only hope!


I just asked for a raise at work. Hopefully I will be rich enough to start hating the poor and not caring!
 
2013-12-04 02:48:30 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Felgraf: You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

Which denomination is that again?


"The Neo-Pentecostal movement has been characterized in part by an emphasis on prosperity theology, which gained greater acceptance within charismatic Christianity during the late 1990s. By 2006, three of the four largest congregations in the United States were teaching prosperity theology, and Joel Osteen has been credited with spreading it outside of the Pentecostal and Charismatic movement through his books, which have sold over 4 million copies. Bruce Wilkinson's The Prayer of Jabez also sold millions of copies and invited readers to seek prosperity.

By the 2000s, adherents of prosperity theology in the United States were most common in the Sun Belt. In the late 2000s, proponents claimed that tens of millions of Christians had accepted prosperity theology. A 2006 poll by Time reported that 17 percent of Christians in America said they identified with the movement. There is no official governing body for the movement, though many ministries are unofficially linked.

In 2007, U.S. Senator Chuck Grassley opened a probe into the finances of six televangelism ministries that promoted prosperity theology: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Creflo Dollar Ministries, Benny Hinn Ministries, Bishop Eddie Long Ministries, Joyce Meyer Ministries, and Paula White Ministries. In January 2011, Grassley concluded his investigation stating that he believed self-regulation by religious organizations was preferable to government action. Only the ministries led by Meyer and Hinn cooperated fully with Grassley's investigation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
 
2013-12-04 02:48:35 PM

FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards

Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.

Sincerely,

A Socialist


Odd goal there, communism. A system that has demonstrably failed wherever attempted.
 
2013-12-04 02:49:14 PM

simplicimus: FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards

Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.

Sincerely,

A Socialist

Odd goal there, communism. A system that has demonstrably failed wherever attempted.


Socialism has been attempted.  Communism has not.
 
2013-12-04 02:49:23 PM

simplicimus: Tripp Johnston Private Eye: I'm convinced some sort of Lovecraftian monstrosity from the darkest portion of the cosmos is manipulating the minds of American Christians into worshipping it while they still believe they are worshipping Christ.

I think that's part of the job description for the antichrist.


I'd love to see Pat Robertson, Joseph Farah, Ted Cruz, and all the other nutbags rip off their elaborate masks to reveal tentacled hideous visages, turn to the crowd of derpities who like them, and say "Gotcha! Lake of fire for you all. What were you farking people thinking?"
 
2013-12-04 02:52:43 PM

muck1969: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism


Social programs are not equal to Socialism, Communism, Marxism, or <insert any "-ism" that wing-nuts use incorrectly>.


FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?

No. A mixed economy is still a capitalist economy.  What you have there are concessions made to the working class.  They can (and probably will be) scaled back at some point.  Happens all the time.


I think I need to brush up my understanding of Socialism....I do shop at Co-Op though. That is about as Socialist as you can get...I think.
 
2013-12-04 02:53:49 PM

FarkedOver: skullkrusher: FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Our healthcare system/employment insurance/maternity leave/subsidized everything is going to turn us into a Communist State?

No. A mixed economy is still a capitalist economy.  What you have there are concessions made to the working class.  They can (and probably will be) scaled back at some point.  Happens all the time.

One can only hope!

I just asked for a raise at work. Hopefully I will be rich enough to start hating the poor and not caring!


What do you call a socialist who can afford to drink good scotch? A capitalist. Welcome aboard, comrade!
 
2013-12-04 02:54:34 PM

Biff_Steel: The KGB? Really?


I know, field work was the job of the GRU.
 
2013-12-04 02:55:45 PM
You know, for people who believe in hell, they sure are working hard to end up there.
 
2013-12-04 02:55:57 PM

SovietCanuckistan: I think I need to brush up my understanding of Socialism....I do shop at Co-Op though. That is about as Socialist as you can get...I think.


Could be run by anarchists could be run by socialists.  It could also be run by capitalists lol.  You just never know with these things
 
2013-12-04 02:56:09 PM

BojanglesPaladin: Felgraf: You haven't encountered the prosperity gospel?

Which denomination is that again?


It's generic label Christianity. Most, if not all, of the mega churches and evangelicals that influence the republican party subscribe to prosperity gospel beliefs.
 
2013-12-04 02:56:18 PM

simplicimus: FarkedOver: SovietCanuckistan: Communism does not equal Socialism. Socialism does not equal Communism

Sincerely,

Progressive Northern Countries Around the Globe with Awesome Socialized Governments and Higher Living Standards

Mixed economies do not equal socialism.

The goal of socialism is communism.

Sincerely,

A Socialist

Odd goal there, communism. A system that has demonstrably failed wherever attempted.


Cut FarkedOver a break. Once you get past his ridiculous politico-economic views, dude likes booze and boobs like the rest of us. Or most of us. Some people don't drink. Everyone loves boobs tho
 
2013-12-04 02:57:04 PM
Wait till they find out the last guy was a Nazi.
 
2013-12-04 02:57:15 PM

BojanglesPaladin: technicolor-misfit: Okay, they hate helping the poor in ways in which they can't put personal strings on it.

True. FSM knows there are no strings whatsoever when the government helps the poor.


Private charities might be contributing, but they are FAILING. That is why the government needs to step in, because the faith based people can talk the talk, but they fail miserably walking the walk.
 
2013-12-04 02:59:44 PM

Tigger: One would be forgiven for questioning the honesty with which you pursued this investigation.

zeroman987: You should read The Protestant Work Ethic.

Tripp Johnston Private Eye: I'm surprised he hasn't encountered it either;


Perhaps some clarification or definition of terms is in order. No Protestant denomination that I am aware of teaches that poverty is a result of sin. Baptist, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Church of Christ, etc.

Now, "Prosperity Gospel" is not a denomination, and you generally see this nonsense being spewed by these unaffiliated non-denominational mega churches. I do not consider these to be "evangelical" churches, largely because they don't actually HAVE a theology or a doctrine. These are motivational seminars held once weekly peddling their nonsense by packaging it in scriptural snippets. They are as much a 'religion' as AA is a religion.

Let me be clear: Joel Osteen and the like can DIAF. And I suspect, when they die, will end up in fire either way.

So if you are saying that non-denominational prosperity gospel 'church' members are selfish, uncharitable assholes, I would say that probably not ALL of them are (I'm sure many individual members are very nice, loving, and charitable people), but I would agree that MOST are.
 
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