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(NBC News)   Obama when talking about the ACA "We're not repealing it as long as I'm president". GOP: Challenge accepted   (nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com) divider line 250
    More: Obvious, Affordable Care Act, ACA, Obama, challenge accepted  
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5946 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2013 at 12:34 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



250 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-04 09:52:05 AM  
Like they weren't going to hold another 10 votes on it in 2014.  Or another this year.  I wonder how those gop lacrosse moms are going to like 6$ a gallon milk when they don't approve a farm bill this year.
 
2013-12-04 11:01:40 AM  
I was thinking these exact same words this morning, submitter...
 
2013-12-04 11:17:14 AM  
Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.
 
2013-12-04 11:22:18 AM  
Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.
 
2013-12-04 11:37:53 AM  
And every month that goes by, another couple hundred thousand people enroll.  Which will force the GOP to campaign on canceling coverage for people, mostly middle class.

At that point, the attack ads basically write themselves.
 
2013-12-04 11:45:04 AM  

Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.


Clearly, Romney just wasn't conservative enough. The next GOP presidential candidtate will be more conservative than ever before. THAT will certainly win back the country!
 
2013-12-04 12:00:41 PM  
cdn.ucadia.net
Not conservative enough for the GOP
 
2013-12-04 12:25:08 PM  

bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.


After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.
 
2013-12-04 12:29:39 PM  

DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.


Yep.
 
2013-12-04 12:36:15 PM  
So its basically "If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it" all over again?
 
2013-12-04 12:36:38 PM  

DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.


No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.
 
2013-12-04 12:36:40 PM  
Someone must really like defeat.
 
2013-12-04 12:36:49 PM  
The thing is, selectively choosing who is exempt from the law isn't legal.  If the rapeublicans take the senate in 2014 they'll have grounds for impeachment for that.
 
2013-12-04 12:37:20 PM  

oldernell: Like they weren't going to hold another 10 votes on it in 2014.  Or another this year.  I wonder how those gop lacrosse moms are going to like 6$ a gallon milk when they don't approve a farm bill this year.


They'll just blame it on Obama.
 
2013-12-04 12:37:49 PM  
Subby misspelled "Obamacare."
 
2013-12-04 12:38:12 PM  
Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.
 
2013-12-04 12:38:13 PM  
Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.
 
2013-12-04 12:38:22 PM  
It would have been repealed already if they didn't limit the nuclear option to judicial appointments only.
 
2013-12-04 12:39:44 PM  

oldernell: Like they weren't going to hold another 10 votes on it in 2014.  Or another this year.  I wonder how those gop lacrosse moms are going to like 6$ a gallon milk when they don't approve a farm bill this year.


They're already paying more than that for raw milk.
 
2013-12-04 12:40:24 PM  

Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.


Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.
 
2013-12-04 12:40:37 PM  

Weaver95: Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.

Clearly, Romney just wasn't conservative enough. The next GOP presidential candidtate will be more conservative than ever before. THAT will certainly win back the country!


Frankly, Mitt would probably be just as comfortable with a D behind his name. For all intents and purposes; both parties are the sock puppets of corporate America.
 
2013-12-04 12:41:28 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.


You know who else....
 
2013-12-04 12:41:29 PM  
"The only 'fix' is full repeal followed by step-by-step, patient-centered reforms that drive down costs and that Americans actually want."

You could do this with the law in place as it is now, you jerkwad. But you won't. Why is that?
 
2013-12-04 12:41:34 PM  
If I hear the phrase 'patient centered reform' again with no indication of what that actually means, I think I'm going to kill someone
 
2013-12-04 12:43:11 PM  

meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.


You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?
 
2013-12-04 12:43:15 PM  
ACA Summary:
The Republicans will try to make sure it fails no matter how good it is.
The Democrats will try to make it succeeds no matter how bad it is.
No one will try to fix any problems it has to make it better.
 
2013-12-04 12:43:31 PM  

mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.



I wish they had the character of republicans, who want to dismantle Medicare and voted to let Congressmen continue insider trading.
 
2013-12-04 12:43:32 PM  

mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.


They may be Democrats but they are still politicians, so keep your expectations in check. :)

/gonna be a fun few years. . .
 
2013-12-04 12:43:47 PM  

mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?


Yeah that's the one.
 
2013-12-04 12:44:05 PM  

mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.


Yep.  Those spineless cowards sure did lose badly during the Slimdown fiasco!

OWAIT.

/Seriously.  Did you even read the post you replied to?
 
2013-12-04 12:44:16 PM  
I have seen legislation passed by both parties that the opposition was opposed to.

I have never seen either party react like a petulant child that didn't get his way to this degree before.

GoP, you are not helping yourselves here. Your image is pretty broken already and this temper tantrum over Obamacare is making it worse. You guys really need to get your shiat together if you want to take the white house again.
 
2013-12-04 12:44:21 PM  

mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.


No, see. we're talking about Democrats, not teatards
 
2013-12-04 12:44:32 PM  
So how long until the number of people enrolling exceeds the number of people having their insurance cancelled?
 
2013-12-04 12:44:35 PM  

Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.


They don't like the idea that their 1990s plan was signed into law by a Democrat. If they somehow return to power in both the legislation and the presidency, I am sure there will be a repeal of the ACA and a replacement plan that will resemble it, except (considering how today's Republicans are, compared to the 90s ones) it will allow companies to deny coverage upon preexisting conditions and be more of a handout to their campaign contributors like how Medicare Part D was originally crafted as a handout to Merck and other drug companies.
 
2013-12-04 12:44:48 PM  

Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies,


That's the thing I don't get. Isn't this a huge boon for the big insurance companies? All those people that would be going without insurance because they are young and healthy, are now forced to buy coverage, or pay for the privilege of opting out.
 
2013-12-04 12:45:12 PM  

Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.


No kidding.  Have you seen the 3 year charts for insurance company stock prices?  I'm kicking myself for not buying more when I did.  A federal law that requires people to purchase a company's product.

I'm just waiting until the GOP suddenly realizes what a great idea this is and passes a similar law that requires every citizen over the age of 18 to own a firearm.  The firearms manufacturing industry would be in heaven.
 
2013-12-04 12:45:36 PM  

meat0918: Smeggy Smurf: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.

You know who else....


You got it.  Now let's go really scary.  Imagine if the Rapeublicans were running your healthcare.  Picture abstinence only birth control mandated for the next 4 years.  Faith based antibiotics.  Mandatory quarterly drug screening for everybody.  That should scare the shiat out of anybody and yet it's not impossible to see it happening.  Yet you assholes are gleefully handing the possibility of that over to people that only see you as an open pocketbook and potential threat.
 
2013-12-04 12:45:37 PM  

iheartscotch: Weaver95: Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.

Clearly, Romney just wasn't conservative enough. The next GOP presidential candidtate will be more conservative than ever before. THAT will certainly win back the country!

Frankly, Mitt would probably be just as comfortable with a D behind his name. For all intents and purposes; both parties are the sock puppets of corporate America.


This too.
 
2013-12-04 12:46:41 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies,

That's the thing I don't get. Isn't this a huge boon for the big insurance companies? All those people that would be going without insurance because they are young and healthy, are now forced to buy coverage, or pay for the privilege of opting out.


Opposition to the ACA has long, long, long gone past the point where it was rooted in any sort of ideological consistency. The opposition has only the barest of rationalizations at this point - the ACA is more liberal than what came before, because it redistributes money from the more-fortunate to the less-fortunate. That's it. That's where the opposition comes from. Trying to find specific things the ACA does which they hate is pointless. It all goes back to that,
 
2013-12-04 12:47:10 PM  

mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?


Problem: Millions of Americans can not get health insurance.

Solution: Obamacare

Farker: YOU MEAN NOW EVERYONE HAS TO HAVE INSURANCE?!?!

wtf?

mjones73, do you currently have health insurance?
 
2013-12-04 12:47:28 PM  

Mighty Aswan: ACA Summary:
The Republicans will try to make sure it fails no matter how good it is.
The Democrats will try to make it succeeds no matter how bad it is.
No one will try to fix any problems it has to make it better.


Annnnnd were done here.
 
2013-12-04 12:47:31 PM  
No problem, they'll just force a default and crash the economy. They've already failed to repeal the ACA 41 times in addition to taking the matter to the Supreme Court and running an election on it; these people are deranged and they will never accept no for an answer.
 
2013-12-04 12:47:47 PM  

Rosecitybeaver: If I hear the phrase 'patient centered reform' again with no indication of what that actually means, I think I'm going to kill someone


it's related to "common sense gun control measures"
 
2013-12-04 12:48:00 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies,

That's the thing I don't get. Isn't this a huge boon for the big insurance companies? All those people that would be going without insurance because they are young and healthy, are now forced to buy coverage, or pay for the privilege of opting out.


On the day Obama was inaugurated, the Republicans had a meeting in which they decided they would oppose every one of Obama's initiatives, NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE.
 
2013-12-04 12:48:26 PM  

jst3p: I have never seen either party react like a petulant child that didn't get his way to this degree before.



Link
 
2013-12-04 12:50:05 PM  

Dinjiin: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

No kidding.  Have you seen the 3 year charts for insurance company stock prices?  I'm kicking myself for not buying more when I did.  A federal law that requires people to purchase a company's product.

I'm just waiting until the GOP suddenly realizes what a great idea this is and passes a similar law that requires every citizen over the age of 18 to own a firearm.  The firearms manufacturing industry would be in heaven.


I don't think they really want to repeal it, they just want to be able to tell their rube constituents that they tried.

Remember when the Dems started voting "present" on the GoP created budget and the GoP was scared it was going to pass so they had to vote against it?
 
2013-12-04 12:50:36 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.


As if a despot would need socialised medicine for that. Doctors keeping records would be enough. Confiscate those and they'd be done. It would only take a day.
 
2013-12-04 12:50:44 PM  

Giltric: jst3p: I have never seen either party react like a petulant child that didn't get his way to this degree before.


Link


Oy. Because leaving the state in order to protect worker's rights is the same as saying NO! to  everything.
 
2013-12-04 12:51:33 PM  
Well GOP, it's been nice knowing you. Ever since Bush, you just haven't been the same. If you had a shred of intelligence whatsoever, you'd just shut up about the ACA and let people see for their selves. If it's really as bad ad you say, you'd let it do what it's going to do, and then let people would be flock to your banner by the millions, loudly pointing out how you tried to avert this disaster multiple times, and your political success would be assured. The fact that you aren't shutting up tells me that you fear the results, and what they stand to do to your already tenuous grasp to political power. I used to be proud to tell people I was a Republican voter. Then, I became educated and knowledgeable about how we judge others according to our own motives and methods. I also noticed that the GOP was doing nothing for anybody but the ultra-rich (who already don't really need any help.) Like it or not, your claim to be "the lesser of two evils" has been soundly torn from your liver-spotted grasp.

Your children will be delicious.
 
2013-12-04 12:52:57 PM  

Giltric: jst3p: I have never seen either party react like a petulant child that didn't get his way to this degree before.


Link


Close but not the same. This bill passed. They have held how many unsuccessful votes to repeal it? Votes they knew would be unsuccessful.
 
2013-12-04 12:53:06 PM  
It's almost like the Republicans are a bunch of hateful assholes or something ...
 
2013-12-04 12:53:59 PM  

Bladel: And every month that goes by, another couple hundred thousand people enroll.  Which will force the GOP to campaign on canceling coverage for people, mostly middle class.

At that point, the attack ads basically write themselves.


But those people will all just be customers of private insurance companies. Since said companies never cancel people's policies without being forced to do so by the government, surely those policies will just continue indefinitely.
 
2013-12-04 12:54:16 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: It's almost like the Republicans are a bunch of hateful assholes or something ...


No more than the Emocrats calling everybody a racist terrorist hate filled bastard filled with bastard filling
 
2013-12-04 12:55:22 PM  
The ACA was not meant to be permanent legislation in my opinion, but a transition to a single-payor system either under or very similar to HR 676.  The ACA is a nightmare for providers and patients, the "coverage" it gives to many people is more costly for sometimes fewer services and a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it.  The new laws that are coming into place on 01 January will make it hard to reverse the damage already done, if it is not repealed by 01 January 2015 I am not sure what could be done to prevent many millions more people from losing their coverage on that date.
 
2013-12-04 12:55:30 PM  

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer: On the day Obama was inaugurated, the Republicans had a meeting in which they decided they would oppose every one of Obama's initiatives, NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE.


And he should've come out, fist thing, and proposed a big, anti baby-rape (rape OF babies, not rape BY babies) campaign.  "Why, oh why is the GOP in favor of raping babies?"
 
2013-12-04 12:55:44 PM  
I'm so sick of this shiat.  It's settled law, upheld by the Supreme Court.  I not a fan of it and thought something could be done within the free market.  The lawmakers of the country went a different route and based on election results, that's what most people wanted.  OK.  At this point, for the good of the country, stop this stupid bullshiat and put some energy into fixing shiat that's broken.  After a year of the ACA in place, get an understanding of what's broken and/or its unintended consequences and fix that  shiat too.
 
2013-12-04 12:56:10 PM  
Just to note, website aside, things the ACA has already done that people will not willingly let go of:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


For the "repeal" people, all of this will go away, and if they say they want to keep it, how do you pay for it without the individual mandate?
 
2013-12-04 12:57:29 PM  

Bladel: And every month that goes by, another couple hundred thousand people enroll.


It'll be way more than that. Administration announced that in the first two days of the month alone, 29,000 signed up for plans, and that's only through the federal website. That's on pace for well over a million in the month if you count all exchanges.
 
2013-12-04 12:58:10 PM  

blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it


LOL sure
 
2013-12-04 12:58:42 PM  

nmrsnr: Just to note, website aside, things the ACA has already done that people will not willingly let go of:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


For the "repeal" people, all of this will go away, and if they say they want to keep it, how do you pay for it without the individual mandate?


On the other hand, there is the Republican plan to reform healthcare:

perfumedletters.files.wordpress.com

Both require thoughtful consideration before you choose which one has more merit.
 
2013-12-04 12:59:56 PM  

mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?


Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.
 
2013-12-04 01:00:31 PM  
The GOP must have a mile long ammo belt feeding that gun they shoot themselves in the foot with. I bet they shoot their left foot with it to avoid any temptation.

This anti-ACA voting trend is just sad now, a pathetic pleading for attention. The pile-on around the website disaster is because it's their last chance to get the ACA repealed, and it's still a poor chance. Most strategists understand that once it's rolled out that you'll never get the genie back in the bottle, it'll just be too popular.
 
2013-12-04 01:01:15 PM  
blugenes

"The ACA was not meant to be permanent legislation in my opinion, but a transition to a single-payor system either under or very similar to HR 676."

The Democrats have been very open about the ACA being a stepping stone to single payer. I suspect the goal is to screw up healthcare so badly that going to single payer will look like an improvement, albeit a short term improvement.
 
2013-12-04 01:01:48 PM  

AsparagusFTW: Mighty Aswan: ACA Summary:
The Republicans will try to make sure it fails no matter how good it is.
The Democrats will try to make it succeeds no matter how bad it is.
No one will try to fix any problems it has to make it better.

Annnnnd were done here.


Not quite.

"False equivilancy."
"Both sides are bad, so vote Republican."

Now we're done.
 
2013-12-04 01:02:07 PM  

Lord_Baull: Subby misspelled "Obamacare."


Why would you call it Obamacare? We have the Republicans to thank as much as the Democrats for the ACA. And the complaints we've heard thus far with the ACA are regarding provisions that were introduced (or at the very least influenced) by the Republicans in Congress.
 
2013-12-04 01:02:50 PM  
It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.
 
2013-12-04 01:07:06 PM  

Sudlow: The Democrats have been very open about the ACA being a stepping stone to single payer.


They have? Can you point to prominent Dems saying this?
 
2013-12-04 01:07:11 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: [cdn.ucadia.net image 200x300]
Not conservative enough for the GOP


Too Catholic.
 
2013-12-04 01:07:23 PM  

Casey Anthony: Lord_Baull: Subby misspelled "Obamacare."

Why would you call it Obamacare? We have the Republicans to thank as much as the Democrats for the ACA. And the complaints we've heard thus far with the ACA are regarding provisions that were introduced (or at the very least influenced) by the Republicans in Congress.


I'm only surprised the Republicans haven't claimed full credit for it yet.
They probably will during the 2014 campaign.
 
2013-12-04 01:07:40 PM  

Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.



Those forms of insurance exist to protect other people -- the other driver you hit, the bank that is insuring its loan more than your actual house, and the patient you injure.

People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.  They may, for example, simply choose to expend the cost of living a very healthy lifestyle.  (Unlike the people who are the reason for two-thirds of all medical expenses in the USA, which are the result of self-inflicted, voluntary bad lifestyle choices -- obesity, inactivity, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

And before you say that Obamacare exists to solve the problem of all of the people who supposedly would go without insurance and run up big medical bills and fail to pay (thus burdening everyone else), that figure amounts to less than 2% of all medical costs.  Two percent of the cost of all medical services is involuntarily unpaid.  That's less than half of the cost of services that doctors and hospitals choose to provide for free voluntarily, out of charity.

The Myth of the Uninsured Deadbeat was a fantasy -- a bogeyman that Obama used to get people to justify their unethical support of a law mandating people buy things they do not want, supposedly for their own good.
 
2013-12-04 01:08:27 PM  

Lord_Baull: Subby misspelled "Obamacare."

  "Islamascam."

Smeggy Smurf: No more than the Emocrats calling everybody a racist terrorist hate filled bastard filled with bastard filling


Ok, I larfed.
 
2013-12-04 01:09:44 PM  

Phinn: People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.


So you support the idea that if someone is, say, has a heart attack and doesn't have insurance or money, we should let them die in the street untreated? Isn't that what this statement means?

The idea that people without the means to pay for their own health care should simply not get health care was rejected a very long time ago. It's not coming back.
 
2013-12-04 01:09:54 PM  
"The only 'fix' is full repeal followed by  step-by-step, patient-centered reforms that drive down costs and that Americans actually want."

Let me fix that:

"The only 'fix' is full repeal followed by direct handouts to my big business medical campaign contributors"
 
2013-12-04 01:10:12 PM  

Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Because you're a liability on the road

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over? Because your mortgage company requires it

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over? Because people are sue happy assholes

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

My well being is not going to impact anyone, nice try though.
 
2013-12-04 01:10:30 PM  

Casey Anthony: Lord_Baull: Subby misspelled "Obamacare."

Why would you call it Obamacare? We have the Republicans to thank as much as the Democrats for the ACA. And the complaints we've heard thus far with the ACA are regarding provisions that were introduced (or at the very least influenced) by the Republicans in Congress.


quizzicaldog.jpg
You mean the original version decades ago, or the one that was passed recently with 0 republican support?
Also, re-calibrate your sarcast-o-meter. There's a thread below that says now that the ACA website is functioning better, GOP is calling it ACA instead of Obamacare.
 
2013-12-04 01:11:26 PM  
nmrsnr: Just to note, website aside, things the ACA has already done that people will not willingly let go of:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance

Things the GOP has already done that people need to be reminded of almost all the time next year:
They are racists.
They hate women and women's rights like the Pakistani talibanis do.
They want to send your children to ar to make them oil rich.
They want to take away your social security benefits.
They want to starve your kids. 
They want everyone to love Jesus.
They hate Gays.
In fact, unless you are an old white man with tons of money in the bank, if you vote for the GOP, you should be ridiculed into a quivering mass of pee stained insecurity.

And please, feel free to do this.
 
2013-12-04 01:11:40 PM  

Phinn: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

Those forms of insurance exist to protect other people -- the other driver you hit, the bank that is insuring its loan more than your actual house, and the patient you injure.

People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.  They may, for example, simply choose to expend the cost of living a very healthy lifestyle.  (Unlike the people who are the reason for two-thirds of all medical expenses in the USA, which are the result of self-inflicted, voluntary bad lifestyle choices -- obesity, inactivity, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

And before you say that Obamacare exists to solve the problem of all of the people who supposedly would go without insurance and run up big medical bills and fail to pay (thus burdening everyone else), that figure amounts to less than 2% of all medical costs.  Two percent of the cost of all medical services is involuntarily unpaid.  That's less than half of the cost of services that doctors and hospitals choose to provide for free voluntarily, out of charity.

The Myth of the Uninsured Deadbeat was a fantasy -- a bogeyman that Obama used to get people to justify their unethical support of a law mandating people buy things they do not want, supposedly for their own good.


Thank you for detailing that out more then I did.
 
2013-12-04 01:12:39 PM  

Dinjiin: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

No kidding.  Have you seen the 3 year charts for insurance company stock prices?  I'm kicking myself for not buying more when I did.  A federal law that requires people to purchase a company's product.

I'm just waiting until the GOP suddenly realizes what a great idea this is and passes a similar law that requires every citizen over the age of 18 to own a firearm.  The firearms manufacturing industry would be in heaven.


They could have saved GM this way too.
 
2013-12-04 01:13:10 PM  
Keep farkin' that chicken there, Libtards. The ACA is going to end up nuking Obama and the Democrats.

- Do you really think the courts are going to let Obama get away from unilaterally altering what you so desparately call "settled law"?

- No law is "settled" All laws are subject to legislative change. ALL laws.

- The "you can keep your health insurance" lie continues to unravel daily

- Harry Reid is exempting "his people" from ACA, but us peons get stuck with it

- Just wait until the premium jumps hit everybody else. Meltdown city. People will vote for farkin' Nazi's if that what it takes to kill ACA

- you know, the law Nancy Pelosi said had to be passed so people could find out how good it is! Ha!

Once people realize what the Dems did to them, there hopefully won't be any more Affirmative Action Hires elected to the White House anytime soon....
 
2013-12-04 01:14:14 PM  

nmrsnr: Just to note, website aside, things the ACA has already done that people will not willingly let go of:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


For the "repeal" people, all of this will go away, and if they say they want to keep it, how do you pay for it without the individual mandate?



In addition to 1-5, the ACA also increases patient care standards at hospitals.  Hospitals either get federal grants or penalties for the quality of service they offer.

Oh, and medical costs overall have increased at their lowest rate in decades.  Some might attribute this to the economy but it could just as easily be the ACA driving it.
 
2013-12-04 01:16:25 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.


Your tiny fists such must be getting work out.
 
2013-12-04 01:17:18 PM  

Heliovdrake: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

Your tiny fists such sure must be getting workout.

 
2013-12-04 01:18:19 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.


Well, good thing the ACA isn't socialized medicine, then.

But then again, neither was T-4.

But thanks for letting us know just how tenuous your grip on reality is, and that your "contributions" here merit no further consideration.

Buh-bye!
 
2013-12-04 01:18:19 PM  

DamnYankees: Phinn: People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.

So you support the idea that if someone is, say, has a heart attack and doesn't have insurance or money, we should let them die in the street untreated? Isn't that what this statement means?

The idea that people without the means to pay for their own health care should simply not get health care was rejected a very long time ago. It's not coming back.



That's an issue of indigent care -- which was already covered by Medicaid.  Those services were already being paid for, which was therefore not a problem that Obamacare could solve or needed to solve.

The government sponsorship of employer-based medical insurance is what caused health care costs to rise and rise and rise, over the last 60 years or so, especially since the HMO Act of 1973.

What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.
 
2013-12-04 01:19:09 PM  

Koodz: Bladel: And every month that goes by, another couple hundred thousand people enroll.  Which will force the GOP to campaign on canceling coverage for people, mostly middle class.

At that point, the attack ads basically write themselves.

But those people will all just be customers of private insurance companies. Since said companies never cancel people's policies without being forced to do so by the government, surely those policies will just continue indefinitely.


Many were also enrolled in the part of the ACA that expanded Medicaid....
 
2013-12-04 01:19:59 PM  
Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."
 
2013-12-04 01:20:01 PM  
"he'll spend the remainder of his presidency fighting to make it work if necessary"

If necessary? WTF!  Gee, hate to put you out like that to make it work.

Conveniently, its ACA and not Obamacare when it blew up in their faces. Oh no it sucks so quit referencing with his name.
 
2013-12-04 01:20:40 PM  

mjones73: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over? Because you're a liability on the road

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over? Because your mortgage company requires it

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over? Because people are sue happy assholes

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

My well being is not going to impact anyone, nice try though.


You must be sterile.
 
2013-12-04 01:22:12 PM  

Phinn: That's an issue of indigent care -- which was already covered by Medicaid.


But your principle would lead to the abolition of Medicaid also. What's the principle by which society should pay for the health care of children, poor people and old people, but not other people? Take 4 different people, all of whom get cancer:

15 year old: Society should help
25 year old without a job and no income: Society should help
25 year old with a job, but health insurance is too expensive: Society should not help
65 year old: Society should help

Why, exactly, should person #3 get farked? What's the principle?
 
2013-12-04 01:22:51 PM  

Phinn: And before you say that Obamacare exists to solve the problem of all of the people who supposedly would go without insurance and run up big medical bills and fail to pay (thus burdening everyone else), that figure amounts to less than 2% of all medical costs. Two percent of the cost of all medical services is involuntarily unpaid. That's less than half of the cost of services that doctors and hospitals choose to provide for free voluntarily, out of charity.

The Myth of the Uninsured Deadbeat was a fantasy -- a bogeyman that Obama used to get people to justify their unethical support of a law mandating people buy things they do not want, supposedly for their own good.


Will you provide citations for those assertions please?
 
2013-12-04 01:24:16 PM  
FTFPresident: "If I've got to fight another three years to make sure this law works, then that's what I'll do."

How stupid and stubborn is that statement? No matter how much time, money, and resources it takes, Obama is going to cram this down your throats whether you like it or not.
 
2013-12-04 01:24:20 PM  

Deucednuisance: Smeggy Smurf: Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.

Well, good thing the ACA isn't socialized medicine, then.

But then again, neither was T-4.

But thanks for letting us know just how tenuous your grip on reality is, and that your "contributions" here merit no further consideration.

Buh-bye!


Ignored by somebody willfully ignorant.  Damn I love this place
 
2013-12-04 01:24:36 PM  

hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."


Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...
 
2013-12-04 01:25:50 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.


First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance
 
2013-12-04 01:26:01 PM  

Pinner: mjones73: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over? Because you're a liability on the road

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over? Because your mortgage company requires it

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over? Because people are sue happy assholes

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

My well being is not going to impact anyone, nice try though.

You must be sterile.


So the fact I could get someone pregnant is your reasoning for forcing health care on me?
 
2013-12-04 01:26:44 PM  

mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...


Then why didn't he run on his record of implementing Romneycare?
 
2013-12-04 01:29:41 PM  
"Sir, it was a valiant attempt, but it does not look like we have enough altitude to make it over the mountain."
"Throw out the parachutes and bolt the doors while I break off the throttle. We are riding this thing as far as it goes."
"Why not change course to go around the mountain? It might take longer be we will still get there."
"We have no choice. This is the only way. We have to crash this airplane before we can build a better one."
 
2013-12-04 01:29:55 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: FTFPresident: "If I've got to fight another three years to make sure this law works, then that's what I'll do."

How stupid and stubborn is that statement? No matter how much time, money, and resources it takes, Obama is going to cram this down your throats whether you like it or not.


This very much depends on what you think Obama meant by "works" if, as you seem to suggest, "works" means "gets implemented, regardless of how bad it is, or how widely reviled it is" yes, the statement is not a particularly good one. If however, you take "works" to mean "provide every American affordable health coverage, regardless of what changes need to be made" then it seems exactly like what politicians should do, work ceaselessly to make our lives better.
 
2013-12-04 01:30:21 PM  

hugram: mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...

Then why didn't he run on his record of implementing Romneycare?


No idea, you'd have to ask him.
 
2013-12-04 01:30:28 PM  
Well the anti-ACA advocates in this thread have made their case in full, and I'm now fully convinced we should go back to having lifetime caps on insurance, denying people with pre-existing conditions, allowing insurance companies to force people out of the hospital whether they're well enough or not, and forcing the poors to die slow and painful deaths because the only taxpayer-paid medical care they get is emergency room visits.
 
2013-12-04 01:31:03 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.


Seems to be doing just that.

Soon, Ronald Hudson walked in.
"Okay," Lively began. "What Hudsons are you kin to?"
"R.T., Uncle Lenny ..." said Hudson, a skinny 35-year-old who worked as an assistant director at the senior center and had just been released from the hospital after a blood-sugar spike.
He'd never had insurance before and said his hospital bills were up to $23,000 at this point.
"Good night," Lively said, tapping in his information.
Kids: five. Salary: about $14,000 before taxes.
"You're going to qualify for a medical card," she told Hudson.
"Well, thank God," Hudson said, laughing. "I believe I'm going to be a Democrat."


Source:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-rural-kentucky-health-care- d ebate-takes-back-seat-as-people-sign-up-for-insurance/2013/11/23/449dc 6e0-5465-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_print.html
 
2013-12-04 01:31:59 PM  

Sudlow: The Democrats have been very open about the ACA being a stepping stone to single payer. I suspect the goal is to screw up healthcare so badly that going to single payer will look like an improvement, albeit a short term improvement.


If that was the plan, they blew it.  The new public attitude after this screw up is that you, yes you personally, cannot afford to have the federal government involved in your personal health care.

General regulation of the industry, under the heading of the regulation of interstate commerce, fine.

But when it comes to your personal body and the medicine and services needed to keep it turning oxygen into carbon dioxide, if there is a government agent involved in that, you can expect any or all of the following:

- incompetence and its good buddy, sovereign immunity
- ideological interference
- political maneuvering
- bureaucracy
- cronyism
- spoils system patronage

None of this does a damned thing to get you the care you need, or to bring the cost down, but you don't have an option now, do you?  Politics is now part of your health care.  If trading off the CANCER voting bloc to secure the votes from the BIRTH CONTROL voting bloc, that's the calculation a politician will do.

And why the hell should they listen to you, now?  Stop bothering to call your representatives to leave your opinion on the issues.  The new policy will be to validate that you're a constituent before taking you message, and after that, well... hope you agree with the politician.  Otherwise, well, someone on his staff, not the representative himself, oh no, but someone deniable and expendable will pass a list to someone else, and suddenly you'll find you're at the bottom of the list to get the new multiple sclerosis drug, or your pain medication consumption will be audited.  Sit down, shut up, and do what you're told, because your quality of life is dependent on your party affiliation.
 
2013-12-04 01:33:04 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: [cdn.ucadia.net image 200x300]
Not conservative enough for the GOP


Torquemada - do not implore him for compassion
Torquemada - do not ask him for forgiveness.
Torquemada - do not beg him for mercy
Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!
 
2013-12-04 01:33:54 PM  

mjones73: Pinner: mjones73: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over? Because you're a liability on the road

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over? Because your mortgage company requires it

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over? Because people are sue happy assholes

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

My well being is not going to impact anyone, nice try though.

You must be sterile.

So the fact I could get someone pregnant is your reasoning for forcing health care on me?


No, just saying that "your being" can in fact impact someone.
Maybe you're an insignificant citizen and no one relies on your responsibilities to keep anything going. If you have a heart attack right now, there are no people that are relying on you for meals or an education, stay in business so they can keep their jobs, contribute to the household income so that no one goes broke and loses their home.
 
2013-12-04 01:35:21 PM  

mjones73: hugram: mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...

Then why didn't he run on his record of implementing Romneycare?

No idea, you'd have to ask him.


I'm pretty sure you know why... but in the case you don't, I'm sure other farkers here will explain to you why he could not run on his MA healthcare record.
 
2013-12-04 01:36:06 PM  

Fluid: Someone must really like defeat.


That would be Rex Ryan.
 
2013-12-04 01:37:15 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: FTFPresident: "If I've got to fight another three years to make sure this law works, then that's what I'll do."

How stupid and stubborn is that statement? No matter how much time, money, and resources it takes, Obama is going to cram this down your throats whether you like it or not.


Stay the course!
 
2013-12-04 01:37:54 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: Ignored by somebody willfully ignorant.


Did I say that I was putting you on ignore?  I just said your "contributions" merit no further consideration.

See what I mean about your tenuous grip on reality?
 
2013-12-04 01:39:00 PM  

nmrsnr: This very much depends on what you think Obama meant by "works" if, as you seem to suggest, "works" means "gets implemented, regardless of how bad it is, or how widely reviled it is" yes, the statement is not a particularly good one. If however, you take "works" to mean "provide every American affordable health coverage, regardless of what changes need to be made" then it seems exactly like what politicians should do, work ceaselessly to make our lives better.


Ah, but it's "this law works".  The law itself is too flawed to work as written.
 
2013-12-04 01:39:04 PM  

Pinner: mjones73: Pinner: mjones73: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over? Because you're a liability on the road

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over? Because your mortgage company requires it

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over? Because people are sue happy assholes

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

My well being is not going to impact anyone, nice try though.

You must be sterile.

So the fact I could get someone pregnant is your reasoning for forcing health care on me?

No, just saying that "your being" can in fact impact someone.
Maybe you're an insignificant citizen and no one relies on your responsibilities to keep anything going. If you have a heart attack right now, there are no people that are relying on you for meals or an education, stay in business so they can keep their jobs, contribute to the household income so that no one goes broke and loses their home.


Well if I were to drop dead now, my life insurance would cover those items, not health care. If I were to live, health care would cover my costs, it still wouldn't supplement anyone else. So what's your point again?
 
2013-12-04 01:39:59 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: How stupid and stubborn is that statement? No matter how much time, money, and resources it takes, Obama is going to cram this down your throats whether you like it or not.


Yeah, he should just stand and watch as other people expend as much time, money and resources as they can to repeal a law that has passed muster at every single checkpoint and is officially on the books, that makes total sense.
 
2013-12-04 01:40:52 PM  

DamnYankees: Sin_City_Superhero: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies,

That's the thing I don't get. Isn't this a huge boon for the big insurance companies? All those people that would be going without insurance because they are young and healthy, are now forced to buy coverage, or pay for the privilege of opting out.

Opposition to the ACA has long, long, long gone past the point where it was rooted in any sort of ideological consistency. The opposition has only the barest of rationalizations at this point - the ACA is more liberal than what came before, because it redistributes money from the more-fortunate to the less-fortunate. That's it. That's where the opposition comes from. Trying to find specific things the ACA does which they hate is pointless. It all goes back to that,


It takes money from old white people and gives it to young black welfare babies.
 
2013-12-04 01:41:02 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: meat0918: Smeggy Smurf: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.

You know who else....

You got it.  Now let's go really scary.  Imagine if the Rapeublicans were running your healthcare.  Picture abstinence only birth control mandated for the next 4 years.  Faith based antibiotics.  Mandatory quarterly drug screening for everybody.  That should scare the shiat out of anybody and yet it's not impossible to see it happening.  Yet you assholes are gleefully handing the possibility of that over to people that only see you as an open pocketbook and potential threat.


I suppose anything is possible, but the total sea change that would have to happen would rival the one that managed to get Prohibition into the Constitution.

And a lot of the health insurance plans I've seen already covers "Faith based medicine" in the form of naturopathic care, homeopathy (it's classified as medicine in America), and chiropractic care.
 
2013-12-04 01:42:25 PM  
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?
 
2013-12-04 01:44:06 PM  

cwheelie: You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?


That's exactly what I want. I want my IRS Auditor to be the one who gives me flu shots.
 
2013-12-04 01:44:29 PM  
I can't believe the Republicans are so mad that my mom no longer has to pay $850 a month for health insurance. I thought they wanted to strengthen the economy? Giving people affordable health care means they have more money to spend frivolously.
 
2013-12-04 01:46:30 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: nmrsnr: This very much depends on what you think Obama meant by "works" if, as you seem to suggest, "works" means "gets implemented, regardless of how bad it is, or how widely reviled it is" yes, the statement is not a particularly good one. If however, you take "works" to mean "provide every American affordable health coverage, regardless of what changes need to be made" then it seems exactly like what politicians should do, work ceaselessly to make our lives better.

Ah, but it's "this law works".  The law itself is too flawed to work as written.


It's a good thing the GOP worked tirelessly to come up with a bi-partisan solution to fix the various flaws in the ACA then instead of purposefully sabotaging the ACA and running on a platform of "No."

I mean that's what they did, right? Offer plausible, reality-based solutions and engaged in meaningful debate to make the legislation itself better, right? I mean if it's flawed, then obviously both parties in congress are responsible for the flaws, right? Not just one side trying to obstruct the other and trying to sabotage the legislation for political points?
 
2013-12-04 01:47:28 PM  

nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance



You forgot doubling my healthcare costs, but hey some eggs blah, blah, blah. No sale.
 
2013-12-04 01:48:05 PM  

Heliovdrake: Heliovdrake: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

Your tiny fists such sure must be getting workout.


Truth painful much?
 
2013-12-04 01:48:38 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford


Really? You quote the ramblings of an alcoholic, crack smoking Canadian to bolster your argument?
 
2013-12-04 01:48:56 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?


You mean a government that considered the Native Americans a nuisance at best and an vicious enemy at worst might not have had their best interests in mind?

Whodathunkit?
 
2013-12-04 01:50:26 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?


Um.  The USA already has a huge government agency administering a huge healthcare plan.

And interestingly, it is
preferred over private insurance.No, we don't want the "IRS" or the "DMV" administering our healthcare, but perhaps a government agency designed to, well, administer healthcare might fit the bill.
 
2013-12-04 01:50:41 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

Seems to be doing just that.

Soon, Ronald Hudson walked in.
"Okay," Lively began. "What Hudsons are you kin to?"
"R.T., Uncle Lenny ..." said Hudson, a skinny 35-year-old who worked as an assistant director at the senior center and had just been released from the hospital after a blood-sugar spike.
He'd never had insurance before and said his hospital bills were up to $23,000 at this point.
"Good night," Lively said, tapping in his information.
Kids: five. Salary: about $14,000 before taxes.
"You're going to qualify for a medical card," she told Hudson.
"Well, thank God," Hudson said, laughing. "I believe I'm going to be a Democrat."

Source:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/in-rural-kentucky-health-care- d ebate-takes-back-seat-as-people-sign-up-for-insurance/2013/11/23/449dc 6e0-5465-11e3-9e2c-e1d01116fd98_print.html



I agree, one good story makes up for millions losing health care benefits.
 
2013-12-04 01:52:21 PM  

blugenes: The ACA was not meant to be permanent legislation in my opinion, but a transition to a single-payor system either under or very similar to HR 676.  The ACA is a nightmare for providers and patients, the "coverage" it gives to many people is more costly for sometimes fewer services and a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it.  The new laws that are coming into place on 01 January will make it hard to reverse the damage already done, if it is not repealed by 01 January 2015 I am not sure what could be done to prevent many millions more people from losing their coverage on that date.


I used to work in a medical center with over 80 doctors.  We were in the process of upgrading all the practices to an electronic medical records system, and all the doctors over 40 were biatching and moaning about how hard it was to use, and that they were all going to retire at the end of the year.

Yeah, they never did.   The same thing is happening here.  "Change is scary! I don't like change! I'm quitting the medical profession!"  ...until they realize how little retirement pays, then they're all, "Psych!"
 
2013-12-04 01:53:20 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?


img.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-04 01:53:25 PM  

Carthax: blugenes: The ACA was not meant to be permanent legislation in my opinion, but a transition to a single-payor system either under or very similar to HR 676.  The ACA is a nightmare for providers and patients, the "coverage" it gives to many people is more costly for sometimes fewer services and a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it.  The new laws that are coming into place on 01 January will make it hard to reverse the damage already done, if it is not repealed by 01 January 2015 I am not sure what could be done to prevent many millions more people from losing their coverage on that date.

I used to work in a medical center with over 80 doctors.  We were in the process of upgrading all the practices to an electronic medical records system, and all the doctors over 40 were biatching and moaning about how hard it was to use, and that they were all going to retire at the end of the year.

Yeah, they never did.   The same thing is happening here.  "Change is scary! I don't like change! I'm quitting the medical profession!"  ...until they realize how little retirement pays, then they're all, "Psych!"


It's never "Psych!"

It's... "Meh, I'll give it one more year. What's more year going to hurt?", then it's the year after that... and the year after that.

/works in the medical field
 
2013-12-04 01:53:45 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.


People were not aware of hoe much liberals were lying about the bill until recently.

It had been fun watching liberals claim the GOP isn't offering useful fixes despite the facts democrats have always voted down every fix offered: see Enzi's 2010 amendment to dull cancelations of policies.

Liberals have relied on voter ignorance of the bill. Now that people are being affected, the support for ACA is dropping like a rock.

You can't benefit 10% of the population by harming 50%. That is not politically a good idea. SS and Medicare never harmed one group more than others, ACA does. Latest estimates are 10% will have lowered payments at the expense of 40% of the population. That 40% is a tad more than the evil 1% liberals rely on railing against.
 
2013-12-04 01:53:51 PM  

DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure


My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.
 
2013-12-04 01:55:34 PM  

meat0918: cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?

You mean a government

republican party that considered the Native Americansmiddle/ lower class a nuisance at best and a vicious enemy at worst might not have had their best interests in mind?

Whodathunkit?

Updated that for you.
 
2013-12-04 01:56:31 PM  

meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.


It isn't a garauntee of anything. Subsidies for an individual making 32ka year is negligible. What is not negligible is the 60% premium increase for that 30 year old with a higher out of pocket deductible . Aca does nothing for that person.
 
2013-12-04 01:56:47 PM  

MyRandomName: That is not politically a good idea.


I guess we'll find out.
 
2013-12-04 01:57:42 PM  

The Martian Manhandler: DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure

My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.


It's true. People who devote themselves to healing other people and pay large sums of money in education costs would rather see their patients and future patients suffer and die over a political point than continue their career and get paid.
 
2013-12-04 01:57:54 PM  

MyRandomName: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

It isn't a garauntee of anything. Subsidies for an individual making 32ka year is negligible. What is not negligible is the 60% premium increase for that 30 year old with a higher out of pocket deductible . Aca does nothing for that person.


Be careful using logic in here... :D
 
2013-12-04 01:59:40 PM  

Chinchillazilla: I can't believe the Republicans are so mad that my mom no longer has to pay $850 a month for health insurance. I thought they wanted to strengthen the economy? Giving people affordable health care means they have more money to spend frivolously.


Know how i know you dont have to buy ACA insurance?

/problem is eventualy you will run out of other peoples money
//this is the epitome of a pyramid scheme
 
2013-12-04 02:01:49 PM  

MyRandomName: Aca does nothing for that person.


That person doesn't exist at a single moment in time. That person will age, lose their job, get sick, etc. When that happens, the ACA will then help that person.

The ACA, like every single other policy in existence, does not benefit 100% of people 100% of the time.
 
2013-12-04 02:01:58 PM  

The Martian Manhandler: My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.


So wait until it's done ALL of the damage Republicans have claimed it will make before repealing it.

I guess Republicans will get to say "I told you so" each time one of their prophecies about the destruction inherent in socialism comes to pass, at least.
 
2013-12-04 02:02:10 PM  
Sigh, Obamacare is the mother of all cashgrabs by the health insurance industry.  The Dems are either stupid or skipped a few of the bill's 10,000 pages.  Or maybe the lobbyists just did some good old-fashioned vote buying via campaign contributions.  I would love for Anonymous to start a permanent DOS attack to stall this travesty.

Healthcare in the US will always be a cashgrab clusterfark until it is nationalized.  Which will never happen, too much money to be sucked up from Boomers by parasitic insurance companies.  Yet another consequence of dependence on a FIRE economy, everything is now a profit center.
 
2013-12-04 02:03:07 PM  

Trid_Kicker: cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?

Um.  The USA already has a huge government agency administering a huge healthcare plan.

And interestingly, it is
preferred over private insurance.No, we don't want the "IRS" or the "DMV" administering our healthcare, but perhaps a government agency designed to, well, administer healthcare might fit the bill.


But considering their track record (IRS, NSA, etc) I am not hopeful of a well run, cost conscious beauracracy... and for the record Mr. Macaroni & The Patient, I am not a government hating republican. Just a realist.
 
2013-12-04 02:04:03 PM  

Trid_Kicker: cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?

Um.  The USA already has a huge government agency administering a huge healthcare plan.

And interestingly, it is
preferred over private insurance.No, we don't want the "IRS" or the "DMV" administering our healthcare, but perhaps a government agency designed to, well, administer healthcare might fit the bill.



The VA also rates higher than private insurance.
 
2013-12-04 02:06:22 PM  

Phinn: Unlike the people who are the reason for two-thirds of all medical expenses in the USA, which are the result of self-inflicted, voluntary bad lifestyle choices -- obesity, inactivity, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.


[citation needed]
 
2013-12-04 02:08:29 PM  

Phinn: What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.


Funny, that's what a single payer system is meant to do.
 
2013-12-04 02:10:02 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford


You're quoting Henry Ford for advice on government healthcare?  He died in 1947 for chrissakes.  And wasn't a doctor.  Or a statesman.  Or any kind of government employee.  And wouldn't know a PET scan from a CAT scan.  And his cars didn't even have variable valve timing, EGR, or antilock brakes.

And he's not on Angie's List either.
 
2013-12-04 02:10:04 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Phinn: What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.

Funny, that's what a single payer system is meant to do.


But that's socialism, and therefore bad.
 
2013-12-04 02:11:45 PM  

ManRay: "Sir, it was a valiant attempt, but it does not look like we have enough altitude to make it over the mountain."
"Throw out the parachutes and bolt the doors while I break off the throttle. We are riding this thing as far as it goes."
"Why not change course to go around the mountain? It might take longer be we will still get there."
"We have no choice. This is the only way. We have to crash this airplane before we can build a better one."


In your analogy, who is flying the plane? Is it the GOP that insists on opposing ANY legislation proposed by the sitting President of the United States of America?
 
2013-12-04 02:14:24 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: ManRay: "Sir, it was a valiant attempt, but it does not look like we have enough altitude to make it over the mountain."
"Throw out the parachutes and bolt the doors while I break off the throttle. We are riding this thing as far as it goes."
"Why not change course to go around the mountain? It might take longer be we will still get there."
"We have no choice. This is the only way. We have to crash this airplane before we can build a better one."

In your analogy, who is flying the plane? Is it the GOP that insists on opposing ANY legislation proposed by the sitting President of the United States of America?


"Our number one priority is to make Obama a one-term president."

But they wouldn't sabotage the ACA legislation to make that dream come true, right?

... right?
 
2013-12-04 02:18:42 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


You forgot doubling my healthcare costs, but hey some eggs blah, blah, blah. No sale.


Again, firstly, healthcare is not the same as health insurance, and healthcare costs are rising at their slowest rate in 50 years.

Secondly, I'm sorry if your health insurance premiums have gone up, but depending on your circumstance you either a) can get a subsidy to help with that, or b) can look for a cheaper plan. If neither of those are possible for you, then we come to:

Thirdly, you didn't address the question, which of the above benefits would you like to take away from the American people in order to pay less for health insurance?
 
2013-12-04 02:21:31 PM  

generallyso: Trid_Kicker: cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?

Um.  The USA already has a huge government agency administering a huge healthcare plan.

And interestingly, it is
preferred over private insurance.No, we don't want the "IRS" or the "DMV" administering our healthcare, but perhaps a government agency designed to, well, administer healthcare might fit the bill.


The VA also rates higher than private insurance.


I worked at a VA hospital for a few years many moons ago.  The VA gets a bad rap, it is actually a pretty efficient system compared to clusterfark private healthcare.  It's a proof of concept of what could be if Congress ever had the balls to create a nationalized system.

Word to the wise:  The VA is required to treat any patient that shows up, regardless of whether said patient was in the service or has health insurance.
 
2013-12-04 02:21:59 PM  

Weatherkiss: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Phinn: What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.

Funny, that's what a single payer system is meant to do.

But that's socialism, and therefore bad.


And this just in: Vermont.
 
2013-12-04 02:22:32 PM  
Joe Blowme:  /problem is eventualy you will run out of other peoples money

Have you seen the explosion of wealth in recent years for the top 1%?  We are not only decidedly not experienced this old tired meme, we are rapidly heading in the opposite direction.
 
2013-12-04 02:23:48 PM  

Trid_Kicker: Weatherkiss: Lee Jackson Beauregard: Phinn: What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.

Funny, that's what a single payer system is meant to do.

But that's socialism, and therefore bad.

And this just in: Vermont.


Wait... you mean "Single Payer is socialism, and therefore bad." is just rhetoric?

My mind. She is blown.
 
2013-12-04 02:24:24 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: I agree, one good story makes up for millions losing health care benefits.


You might try reading the article, it's tens of thousands of good stories, in just one reliably Red State.

As for your "millions", that's largely the result of insurance company scams:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/04/insurance-companies-obamaca re _n_4212552.html

There's plenty of further citation out there documenting this practice.

But I suspect you won't read any of them, since they contradict your narrative, which, by the way, is pretty darn suspect, when your claim of "doubling my health care costs" is such obvious hooey.

And if it is factual, then you're worse than a fool, you're a damn fool.

You can do better, and you won't even try, simply to maintain your outrage.

That's just sad.
 
2013-12-04 02:25:15 PM  

Sudlow: The Democrats have been very open about the ACA being a stepping stone to single payer. I suspect the goal is to screw up healthcare so badly that going to single payer will look like an improvement, albeit a short term improvement.


What would be a long-term improvement? Going back to the way things were?
 
2013-12-04 02:25:30 PM  

Weaver95: Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.

Clearly, Romney just wasn't conservative enough. The next GOP presidential candidtate will be more conservative than ever before. THAT will certainly win back the country!


Save, save the country..
 
2013-12-04 02:26:09 PM  

meat0918: I suppose anything is possible, but the total sea change that would have to happen would rival the one that managed to get Prohibition into the Constitution.

And a lot of the health insurance plans I've seen already covers "Faith based medicine" in the form of naturopathic care, homeopathy (it's classified as medicine in America), and chiropractic care.


You are claiming that something wouldn't happen because it'd be as hard to do as something that really happened?

Here's a though experiment for you:  they passed a constitutional amendment to give the federal government the power to prohibit the sale, transportation and manufacture of alcohol.  They did this because it was understood that the constitution, as written, did not give the federal government this power.  (The amendment did not prohibit the consumption.  Interesting, huh?)

Then they found out that was stupid, and they passed the 21st amendment to repeal the 18th.

Thirty seven years later, the Controlled Substances Act is passed and Nixon declared the 'War On Drugs' and a series of laws are passed to prohibit the sale, possession and use of many recreational drugs, which up until then were taxed or (abusively) regulated.  No constitutional amendment was passed to give the federal government the power to prohibit these drugs.

You may think the bad stuff in health care will be hard to do, because you're thinking amend-the-constitution hard.  I'm thinking the bad stuff won't be that hard to do, given the right crisis that can be spun in the right way, because I'm thinking that would be constitution-means-what-politicians-say-it-means hard.  The ship has already sailed that would stop that.  Sailed, torpedoed and sunk by the USS Major Parties.
 
2013-12-04 02:26:35 PM  

MyRandomName: Liberals have relied on voter ignorance of the bill.


How many watts is in that projector?
 
2013-12-04 02:29:02 PM  

Lando Lincoln: What would be a long-term improvement?


Doing away with all but catastrophic insurance (for health, car, house, etc.), expecting people (and cities and businesses) to save money for hardships, and not bailing them out every time there is one.

But that's long long term improvement. Like two generations of people with their hands out at least.
 
2013-12-04 02:30:07 PM  

Lord_Baull: mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.


I wish they had the character of republicans, who want to dismantle Medicare and voted to let Congressmen continue insider trading.


You do know Medicare is rife with corruption?   Don't you?
God forbid someone protects the American citizen's best interest and hard earned money.
 
2013-12-04 02:31:53 PM  
Odumber is just a lying sac of poop. Just go back to Kenya!
 
2013-12-04 02:32:24 PM  

mistrmind: Lord_Baull: mistrmind: DamnYankees: bdub77: Good for him. It's nice to see him and the Democrats finally start to show some spine.

But Christ it was a long time coming.

After the government shutdown, it's a little ludicrous to accuse the Dems of not having enough spine. Can we stop with this stupid meme? The problem with the Democrats isn't that they lack spine, it's that many of them just aren't very liberal.

No, they lack a spine as well as character.  Come to think of it, not many redeeming factors.


I wish they had the character of republicans, who want to dismantle Medicare and voted to let Congressmen continue insider trading.

You do know Medicare is rife with corruption?   Don't you?
God forbid someone protects the American citizen's best interest and hard earned money.


The HealthCare industry itself is rife with corruption. We're the only country who doesn't know what the true cost of HealthCare is because from stem to stern, everything is inflated and corrupted. From the patients, to the healthcare workers, to the people passing laws on HealthCare.
 
2013-12-04 02:33:53 PM  

MyRandomName: Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.

People were not aware of hoe much liberals were lying about the bill until recently.

It had been fun watching liberals claim the GOP isn't offering useful fixes despite the facts democrats have always voted down every fix offered: see Enzi's 2010 amendment to dull cancelations of policies.

Liberals have relied on voter ignorance of the bill. Now that people are being affected, the support for ACA is dropping like a rock.

You can't benefit 10% of the population by harming 50%. That is not politically a good idea. SS and Medicare never harmed one group more than others, ACA does. Latest estimates are 10% will have lowered payments at the expense of 40% of the population. That 40% is a tad more than the evil 1% liberals rely on railing against.


I LOL'ed
 
2013-12-04 02:35:51 PM  

Deep Contact: Odumber is just a lying sac of poop. Just go back to Kenya!


Oh thank FSM the intelligentsia has arrived.

Get off your Dad's PC kid.
 
2013-12-04 02:38:25 PM  

Trid_Kicker: And this just in: Vermont.

The result will be healthcare that's "a right and not a privilege," Gov. Peter Shumlin said.



A right? Even for the poors? We don't cotton to that around here, boy.
 
2013-12-04 02:39:10 PM  

Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure

My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.

It's true. People who devote themselves to healing other people and pay large sums of money in education costs would rather see their patients and future patients suffer and die over a political point than continue their career and get paid.


That's almost verbatim what I said to my Father-in-Law, except maybe a little more incredulously.
 
2013-12-04 02:41:03 PM  

mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...


Oh really?  30-31 seconds.  "If we can do that nationally..."
 
2013-12-04 02:42:33 PM  

Onkel Buck: So its basically "If you like your healthcare plan you can keep it" all over again?


This was a mistranslation.  In the Latin, it was not "If you like your plan, you can keep it"
it was
"If I like your plan you can keep it."    muauauahahahah...........    engage the gravity drive

4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-04 02:49:04 PM  
Now if a friend can just finally prove to the healthcare automated site that he does not make 27,000 a year. Which he doesn't. He won't have to pay 175 a month that he doesn't have for health insurance the government wants everyone to have. 

Of course, if he stops eating, paying for gas, and stops helping his parents pay the bills thereby causing them to throw him out on the street. Because that's how they roll.  Then he probably won't need it in a few months since he'll be dead from starvation.
 
2013-12-04 02:49:38 PM  

The Martian Manhandler: Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure

My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.

It's true. People who devote themselves to healing other people and pay large sums of money in education costs would rather see their patients and future patients suffer and die over a political point than continue their career and get paid.

That's almost verbatim what I said to my Father-in-Law, except maybe a little more incredulously.


Well if what your Father-in-Law says is true, this means I can quit my job busting my ass doing 12 hour shifts at the hospital and the GOP will pay off my student loans and will pay me to be unemployed, right?
 
2013-12-04 02:50:52 PM  

47 is the new 42: mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...

Oh really?  30-31 seconds.  "If we can do that nationally..."


Facts don't matter to him.
 
2013-12-04 02:55:31 PM  
Lando Lincoln

"What would be a long-term improvement? Going back to the way things were?

The big one would have let insurance companies sell insurance across state lines. Not having 50 different plans would have simplified things.
 
2013-12-04 02:55:58 PM  

jst3p: 47 is the new 42: mjones73: hugram: Trolls on this thread. "We hate Obamacare... That's why we voted for the guy who implemented Romneycare."

Romney had to do something drastic in Massachusetts because their insurance market was so farked up, it wasn't an answer for the whole country...

Oh really?  30-31 seconds.  "If we can do that nationally..."

Facts don't matter to him.


You're right.  Fact don't matter to modern-day Republi-cons.
 
2013-12-04 03:03:35 PM  

cwolf20: Now if a friend can just finally prove to the healthcare automated site that he does not make 27,000 a year. Which he doesn't. He won't have to pay 175 a month that he doesn't have for health insurance the government wants everyone to have. 

Of course, if he stops eating, paying for gas, and stops helping his parents pay the bills thereby causing them to throw him out on the street. Because that's how they roll.  Then he probably won't need it in a few months since he'll be dead from starvation.


Have your friend call the 800 number
 Here's the link to that info https://www.healthcare.gov/contact-us/.
 
2013-12-04 03:03:36 PM  

Sudlow: The big one would have let insurance companies sell insurance across state lines. Not having 50 different plans would have simplified things.


Okay, it would have been simpler, but simpler is not the same as "better."
 
2013-12-04 03:14:25 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: I agree, one good story makes up for millions losing health care benefits.

You might try reading the article, it's tens of thousands of good stories, in just one reliably Red State.

As for your "millions", that's largely the result of insurance company scams:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/04/insurance-companies-obamaca re _n_4212552.html

There's plenty of further citation out there documenting this practice.

But I suspect you won't read any of them, since they contradict your narrative, which, by the way, is pretty darn suspect, when your claim of "doubling my health care costs" is such obvious hooey.

And if it is factual, then you're worse than a fool, you're a damn fool.

You can do better, and you won't even try, simply to maintain your outrage.

That's just sad.


The likely story is that it was his employer who doubled his insurance premium from $40 a month to $80 a month. I'm sure they included a nice letter to all their employees stating that "Thanks to the passage of Obamacare we will be reducing our employer obligation by half."

A lot of employers did that... but don't let the wording fool you, "My insurance premiums DOUBLED!!!" So did mine, I went from $35 a month to $70...

Truth is, the premium didn't double, my employer opted for paying less on their part because the government said it was OK that they could...
 
2013-12-04 03:34:08 PM  

Smeggy Smurf: meat0918: Smeggy Smurf: Theaetetus: Why would the GOP want to repeal the ACA? It's free money for insurance companies, as well as providing a boogeyman to help them get the vote out.

Because some of them know about this little thing called the T-4 program.  In the hands of a despot socialized medicine is a terrible weapon.

You know who else....

You got it.  Now let's go really scary.  Imagine if the Rapeublicans were running your healthcare.  Picture abstinence only birth control mandated for the next 4 years.  Faith based antibiotics.  Mandatory quarterly drug screening for everybody.  That should scare the shiat out of anybody and yet it's not impossible to see it happening.  Yet you assholes are gleefully handing the possibility of that over to people that only see you as an open pocketbook and potential threat.


Mandatory drug testing for anyone on welfare also.
While we're at it, lets make anyone on welfare put in at least 20 hours a week community service. Hi way trash, whatever..

I'd vote for that
 
2013-12-04 03:39:48 PM  
I guess I'll be the one to point out that the ACA was not ruled constitutional, and in fact the requirement that you purchase insurance was point blank ruled unconstitutional.
The penalty for not doing so, however, was ruled a tax and taxation is within the powers of Congress. The SCOTUS did not say whether the ACA was right or wrong, just that Congress could proceed.

Leaving aside the very real challenge of a tax bill originating in the wrong place, even if done under a "shell bill", it still will be challenged once people are required to pay this "tax", since you can't challenge a tax until you're required to pay it.
 
2013-12-04 03:43:18 PM  

Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.


Are you being serious?

If you don't own a car, you don't have to buy car insurance.

If you don't own a house or have it paid off, you can choose not to have house insurance.

If you are breathing, you have to buy health insurance.  No exceptions.
 
2013-12-04 03:50:44 PM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: Phinn: What Obama should have done, and which a future government will need to do, is sever the connection between employment and insurance, which will in turn mostly eliminate insurance as the primary means of paying for ordinary, routine care, which only increases the cost.

Funny, that's what a single payer system is meant to do.


Yes, the elimination of insurance (and therefore also of employment-tied insurance), is one of the results of government-payer.

And, to be fair, one of the good results.

Unfortunately, it also inevitably causes a lot of other problems that are far worse in the long run. When you sever the connection between production decisions and consumer decisions, the producers orient themselves to the preferences of the one that pays -- the government. The providers then have no way of knowing how to efficiently meet consumer preferences, because the consumer doesn't pay, and can only refuse to use their services (or squawk a lot) to express their preferences.

That's why there's so little innovation in government-run industries, little or no interest in pleasing consumers, and escalating inefficiencies. Schools, prisons, Amtrak, utilities ... all the same phenomena of declining performance, increasing costs, and heavy resistance to innovation.
 
2013-12-04 03:55:11 PM  

nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


You forgot doubling my healthcare costs, but hey some eggs blah, blah, blah. No sale.

Again, firstly, healthcare is not the same as health insurance, and healthcare costs are rising at their slowest rate in 50 years.

Secondly, I'm sorry if your health insurance premiums have gone up, but depending on your circumstance you either a) can get a subsidy to help with that, or b) can look for a cheaper plan. If neither of those are possible for you, then we come to:

Thirdly, you didn't address the question, which of the above benefits would you like to take away from the American people in order to pay less for health insurance?



How badly must my family suffer to appease you? Fool.
 
2013-12-04 03:56:33 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: I agree, one good story makes up for millions losing health care benefits.

You might try reading the article, it's tens of thousands of good stories, in just one reliably Red State.

As for your "millions", that's largely the result of insurance company scams:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/04/insurance-companies-obamaca re _n_4212552.html

There's plenty of further citation out there documenting this practice.

But I suspect you won't read any of them, since they contradict your narrative, which, by the way, is pretty darn suspect, when your claim of "doubling my health care costs" is such obvious hooey.

And if it is factual, then you're worse than a fool, you're a damn fool.

You can do better, and you won't even try, simply to maintain your outrage.

That's just sad.



What's sad is the crap we were sold. And you aren't bright enough to see it. Damned jackass.
 
2013-12-04 03:57:14 PM  

bluefox3681: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

Are you being serious?

If you don't own a car, you don't have to buy car insurance.

If you don't own a house or have it paid off, you can choose not to have house insurance.

If you are breathing, you have to buy health insurance.  No exceptions.


No you don't. You just have to pay a tax penalty if you don't. Before the ACA, your irresponsible ass would just foist the bill onto the rest of us anyway when you wound up in the emergency room.
 
2013-12-04 04:00:48 PM  

LordJiro: Before the ACA, your irresponsible ass would just foist the bill onto the rest of us anyway when you wound up in the emergency room.


You realize those bills are paid by funds from the state level or lower right?
 
2013-12-04 04:02:01 PM  

cwheelie: "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian."
  - Henry Ford

You really want the IRS (the federal equivalent of the DMV) administering your healthcare plan?


The government isn't administering anyone's healthcare plan -- private, for-profit insurance companies are. But if course you knew that.
 
2013-12-04 04:02:03 PM  

TheStag: I'm so sick of this shiat.  It's settled law, upheld by the Supreme Court.  I not a fan of it and thought something could be done within the free market.  The lawmakers of the country went a different route and based on election results, that's what most people wanted.  OK.  At this point, for the good of the country, stop this stupid bullshiat and put some energy into fixing shiat that's broken.  After a year of the ACA in place, get an understanding of what's broken and/or its unintended consequences and fix that  shiat too.


You're new here, right?  And by that, I mean - to America.
 
2013-12-04 04:07:08 PM  

bluefox3681: Are you being serious?

If you don't own a car, you don't have to buy car insurance.

If you don't own a house or have it paid off, you can choose not to have house insurance.

If you are breathing, you have to buy health insurance. No exceptions.


No, you can opt out for religious reasons. If you don't ever plan to use Western medicine, if you will instead rely on your own religion's practices on health and healing, then you can opt out. In fact, you can probably opt out if you aren't religious but have no intention to ever use Western Medicine. And if that's the case, you should be able to opt out.

But if you ever plan to use the same medical system that I use, then yes, you should have to have insurance. It's your choice to see a doctor or go to the hospital, much like it's your choice to drive or own a home. And if you do, then you need to pay into the system.
 
2013-12-04 04:08:04 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: How badly must my family suffer to appease you? Fool.


I'll note your refusal to answer the question with a blatant attempt at deflection. But, to turn your question the other way: How badly must others suffer for you to save a few dollars?

Which of these things do you think Americans should forgo in order for you to save some money on your health insurance?

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance
 
2013-12-04 04:15:00 PM  

nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: How badly must my family suffer to appease you? Fool.

I'll note your refusal to answer the question with a blatant attempt at deflection. But, to turn your question the other way: How badly must others suffer for you to save a few dollars?

Which of these things do you think Americans should forgo in order for you to save some money on your health insurance?

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


Number 2, please.
 
2013-12-04 04:25:03 PM  

Avid Smoker: Number 2, please.


Okay, but that will raise the cost of your premiums, not lower it, because those healthy young 20-somethings who just got dropped from their parents' plans (who were paying for them) won't rush out to buy new plans with their meager incomes. And now that you've dropped the individual mandate and kept the "no preexisting condition exclusion" they'll just wait until they get sick or injured to sign up for health insurance.

So sure, that sounds like a good plan.
 
2013-12-04 04:27:08 PM  

Avid Smoker: nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: How badly must my family suffer to appease you? Fool.

I'll note your refusal to answer the question with a blatant attempt at deflection. But, to turn your question the other way: How badly must others suffer for you to save a few dollars?

Which of these things do you think Americans should forgo in order for you to save some money on your health insurance?

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance

Number 2, please.


I had number 2 until 23, while I was in college.  I'd be ok adding that caveat, at least half time enrollment in an accredited college or some sort of trade school program.

It helped a lot, since I did end up in the ER for food poisoning (dorm food FTL), and either way, my parents would have been paying for anything major if I hadn't had insurance.

It was just a good idea, since I was still pretty strapped for cash even though I was also working enough minimum wage hours to qualified for unemployment after the place I was working closed (who runs a BK in a college town into the ground, one that sits between frat row and bar row?!?!?), but they pulled it because "full time student" isn't "unemployed".

Try taking 12-15 credit hours and working an additional 30-40 hrs a week to help pay for said college.  It sucks.
 
2013-12-04 04:36:28 PM  

meat0918: Try taking 12-15 credit hours and working an additional 30-40 hrs a week to help pay for said college. It sucks.


Sounds like you should've been born rich. Why didn't you do that? Just one, simple little thing that would've made your upbringing so much better, but you couldn't be bothered, could you? Lazy bastard.
 
2013-12-04 04:47:44 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: What's sad is the crap we were sold. And you aren't bright enough to see it. Damned jackass.


Tell me, did you even look at your state's exchange or the Federal exchange if you live in a state where spiteful republicans are actively trying to ruin their citizens' lives for some perceived political gain?

As bitter as you sound, I'm willing to bet it's the latter, and that you didn't because, reasons.
 
2013-12-04 05:58:39 PM  
Reading between the lines, is Obama talking about ignoring the 22nd Amendment here?
 
2013-12-04 06:03:08 PM  

Wyalt Derp: Reading between the lines, is Obama talking about ignoring the 22nd Amendment here?


According to the GOP, he ignores everything else in the Constitution so sure, why not?  Makes for another juicy partisan talking point.  Whether or not there's substance behind it is irrelevant.  The point is Obama is always sneaky, bad and wrong.
 
2013-12-04 06:05:55 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Well GOP, it's been nice knowing you. Ever since Bush, you just haven't been the same. If you had a shred of intelligence whatsoever, you'd just shut up about the ACA and let people see for their selves. If it's really as bad ad you say, you'd let it do what it's going to do, and then let people would be flock to your banner by the millions, loudly pointing out how you tried to avert this disaster multiple times, and your political success would be assured. The fact that you aren't shutting up tells me that you fear the results, and what they stand to do to your already tenuous grasp to political power. I used to be proud to tell people I was a Republican voter. Then, I became educated and knowledgeable about how we judge others according to our own motives and methods. I also noticed that the GOP was doing nothing for anybody but the ultra-rich (who already don't really need any help.) Like it or not, your claim to be "the lesser of two evils" has been soundly torn from your liver-spotted grasp.

Your children will be delicious.


Grow up liar.
 
2013-12-04 06:06:39 PM  

Persnickety: The point is Obama is always sneaky, bad and wrong.


You forgot to mention that he's bla***CARRIER LOST***
 
2013-12-04 06:33:44 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-04 06:41:58 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: What's sad is the crap we were sold. And you aren't bright enough to see it. Damned jackass.

Tell me, did you even look at your state's exchange or the Federal exchange if you live in a state where spiteful republicans are actively trying to ruin their citizens' lives for some perceived political gain?

As bitter as you sound, I'm willing to bet it's the latter, and that you didn't because, reasons.


Now I know I'm being trolled, nobody's that stupid.
 
2013-12-04 06:52:21 PM  

meat0918: cwolf20


I passed it on.

However, one of the issues that causes him to prefer electronic over customer service is because he has a lack of patience.  I continually wish him luck on trying for the medical disability he's going for, as an example. A few issues tied with the lack of patience are mental and he admits it with proof.  Anything more than that I'm not saying.
 
2013-12-04 06:55:17 PM  

MyRandomName: Lando Lincoln: Man, if only Romney had campaigned on repealing the ACA, then he would have won.

People were not aware of hoe much liberals were lying about the bill until recently.

It had been fun watching liberals claim the GOP isn't offering useful fixes despite the facts democrats have always voted down every fix offered: see Enzi's 2010 amendment to dull cancelations of policies.

Liberals have relied on voter ignorance of the bill. Now that people are being affected, the support for ACA is dropping like a rock.

You can't benefit 10% of the population by harming 50%. That is not politically a good idea. SS and Medicare never harmed one group more than others, ACA does. Latest estimates are 10% will have lowered payments at the expense of 40% of the population. That 40% is a tad more than the evil 1% liberals rely on railing against.


almost everything the republicans want to do do screw over 90% to help 1%, sooooo whatever man.
 
2013-12-04 07:38:07 PM  
I was a conservative, but now I'm a liberal, give me MOAR free stuff and take care of me like a baby.

You can have whatever info you want and watch every mode I make also.

I don't know why I fought this, It's like being a child all over again
 
2013-12-04 07:38:22 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: What's sad is the crap we were sold. And you aren't bright enough to see it. Damned jackass.

Tell me, did you even look at your state's exchange or the Federal exchange if you live in a state where spiteful republicans are actively trying to ruin their citizens' lives for some perceived political gain?

As bitter as you sound, I'm willing to bet it's the latter, and that you didn't because, reasons.

Now I know I'm being trolled, nobody's that stupid.


So you didn't check.
 
2013-12-04 07:58:31 PM  

Realist29: Grow up liar.


Really??? Is that the best you've got? If the ACA was so bad, the GOP would see it as a major political coup. Supposedly, millions of people will be majorly negatively impacted by this law. The GOP is on record as having tried to get this law struck down numerous times. Now, all they should have to do is sit back and welcome all these disenfranchised new voters with open arms. They should make major gains in Congress in the mid-term elections, and win the white House at the end of Obama's term.

*If* this law is as bad as they're making it out to be.

However, the more noise they make about it, the more it appears that they're upset because it's a master stroke and they want it struck down before it solidifies support against them and they lose what tenuous hold they have laft at any political credibility whatsoever. They had their chance. I've personally seen the results. A 100 mile helicopter ride to a hospital if you should break your leg while that far away from one will set you back $22,500+ That's $225 a mile. With no medical aid at all rendered in flight. Why? Farking greed, on the part of bureaucrats and rich farks. At that rate, the helicopter paid for itself in a mere week, even including the overhead, all because some cigar-chewing prick thinks he's worth as much as a doctor.

If I'm a liar, I'll now grant you the privilege of showing me where.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:33 PM  
Does Obama not realize this is his LAST term?
Also, many people are only enrolling because the law is forcing them to do so.
 
2013-12-04 10:49:51 PM  

robogun: I was a conservative, but now I'm a liberal, give me MOAR free stuff and take care of me like a baby.

You can have whatever info you want and watch every mode I make also.

I don't know why I fought this, It's like being a child all over again


Did you quit your job to get that sweet welfare check yet?
 
2013-12-04 10:50:50 PM  

42_42_42: Also, many people are only enrolling because the law is forcing them to do so.


I suppose having health insurance is a mildly nice side benefit.
 
2013-12-04 10:56:13 PM  
"GOP: Challenge accepted." You say that as if it actually meant something.
 
2013-12-04 11:57:06 PM  

mark12A: Once people realize what the Dems did to them, there hopefully won't be any more Affirmative Action Hires elected to the White House anytime soon....


I never took you seriously before this but this statement here is the one that seals the deal.

Clearly I voted for Obama only because he's black and not because I thought Romney was a horrible alternative. You saw right through me!
 
2013-12-05 12:12:30 AM  

Lando Lincoln: 42_42_42: Also, many people are only enrolling because the law is forcing them to do so.

I suppose having health insurance is a mildly nice side benefit.


How many of those people can't really afford it, but don't fit within the parameters established by the ACA to receive it free or at a discount?

How many of those people HAD insurance until the ACA made what their employers were offering so expensive that the employer could no longer afford to provide it?

I'm still pissed off that the stupid Supreme Court decided the government could make people purchase something. That is one dangerously slippery slope we're sliding down now. We need LESS government, not MORE. After-all, the government has royally farked up education in this country. Do we REALLY think they're going to do any better with healthcare? As the stunning website debacle has already shown, the government's got it's thumb so far its ass it's sitting on its shoulder.
 
2013-12-05 12:14:03 AM  
PS - I know that first "it's" in the last line should be its, but autocorrect apparently didn't.
 
2013-12-05 12:24:51 AM  

meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.


The American people are not 'guaranteed' anything. Each and every American will have to pay for their own insurance, the government doesn't pay for anything...and if an American DOESN'T or CAN'T afford to pay for that insurance they will PAY a fine to the government.  Obama sold America to the insurance companies, cheap...period, end of story.
 
2013-12-05 01:19:00 AM  

Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure

My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.

It's true. People who devote themselves to healing other people and pay large sums of money in education costs would rather see their patients and future patients suffer and die over a political point than continue their career and get paid.

That's almost verbatim what I said to my Father-in-Law, except maybe a little more incredulously.

Well if what your Father-in-Law says is true, this means I can quit my job busting my ass doing 12 hour shifts at the hospital and the GOP will pay off my student loans and will pay me to be unemployed, right?


Weatherkiss and I might be able to trade stories one of these days, thank you for whatever you do and I totally understand about shifts and loans.  That being said, I do not watch Fox news, usually BBC or if I can get it Taipei Times.  I know lots of physicians are getting out of the field or moving that way because of connections in Big Pharma and health care management.  There are lots of slots being taken up by American physicians moving into corporate and taking a pay cut to do so but whose expertise is welcome at said companies (not all of the American).  There are also many moving overseas, one provider I know just landed a cushy job in Qatar at a salary she would not get here.  Heck, I looked at a position that offered almost double what it would pay here in that part of the world.  You may be aware of a physician shortage being reported, the cause is more complex than simple replacement of those retiring in their late 60s and early 70s.

And those who champion the ACA, please read the plans that "save" people money.  In many cases they cover much less and are simply catastrophic insurance plans, nothing more.  To a plan the ones I looked at in New York and elsewhere end up covering only so much on an inpatient hospital bill and very little else, not even drug coverage or more than half a cost for an outpatient visit or labs etc.  Obama has been on record as pro-single payor since at least 2008 if not 2003, and there are others in Congress who would like to see such a system come to pass.
 
2013-12-05 01:24:03 AM  

Divinegrace: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

The American people are not 'guaranteed' anything. Each and every American will have to pay for their own insurance, the government doesn't pay for anything...and if an American DOESN'T or CAN'T afford to pay for that insurance they will PAY a fine to the government.  Obama sold America to the insurance companies, cheap...period, end of story.


I recall there being subsidies for people that make under a certain amount and whose employers don't offer health insurance.
 
2013-12-05 01:35:41 AM  

blugenes: Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: Weatherkiss: The Martian Manhandler: DamnYankees: blugenes: a lot of providers are now considering leaving the medical field or retiring early because of it

LOL sure

My Father-in-Law busted out this exact same statement at Thanksgiving. It must be a Fox News talking point... I told him that I'd believe it when I saw it.

It's true. People who devote themselves to healing other people and pay large sums of money in education costs would rather see their patients and future patients suffer and die over a political point than continue their career and get paid.

That's almost verbatim what I said to my Father-in-Law, except maybe a little more incredulously.

Well if what your Father-in-Law says is true, this means I can quit my job busting my ass doing 12 hour shifts at the hospital and the GOP will pay off my student loans and will pay me to be unemployed, right?

Weatherkiss and I might be able to trade stories one of these days, thank you for whatever you do and I totally understand about shifts and loans.  That being said, I do not watch Fox news, usually BBC or if I can get it Taipei Times.  I know lots of physicians are getting out of the field or moving that way because of connections in Big Pharma and health care management.  There are lots of slots being taken up by American physicians moving into corporate and taking a pay cut to do so but whose expertise is welcome at said companies (not all of the American).  There are also many moving overseas, one provider I know just landed a cushy job in Qatar at a salary she would not get here.  Heck, I looked at a position that offered almost double what it would pay here in that part of the world.  You may be aware of a physician shortage being reported, the cause is more complex than simple replacement of those retiring in their late 60s and early 70s.

And those who champion the ACA, please read the plans that "save" people money.  In many cases they cover much less and are s ...


Most of the plans that I was eligible for through the New York State Health Exchange had comparable or better in-network coverage to the plans my employer offers.  (They offer one traditional PPO, and two HDHPs).  Any one can use the health exchanges, but they'll be paying all the premiums as opposed to a shared employer/employee cost and likely not eligible for subsidies.  Single payer would be better though.
 
2013-12-05 04:16:10 AM  

robbiex0r: "The only 'fix' is full repeal followed by step-by-step, patient-centered reforms that drive down costs and that Americans actually want."

You could do this with the law in place as it is now, you jerkwad. But you won't. Why is that?


Well, they want to repeal the law, crow all about it, and then re-introduce it as the Palin-Bachmann Act. Printed on paper embossed in eagles in US Flag bikinis.
 
2013-12-05 04:44:51 AM  

mjones73: Phinn: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

Those forms of insurance exist to protect other people -- the other driver you hit, the bank that is insuring its loan more than your actual house, and the patient you injure.

People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.  They may, for example, simply choose to expend the cost of living a very healthy lifestyle.  (Unlike the people who are the reason for two-thirds of all medical expenses in the USA, which are the result of self-inflicted, voluntary bad lifestyle choices -- obesity, inactivity, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

And before you say that Obamacare exists to solve the problem of all of the people who supposedly would go without insurance and run up big medical bills and fail to pay (thus burdening everyone else), that figure amounts to less than 2% of all medical costs.  Two percent of the cost of all medical services is involuntarily unpaid.  That's less than half of the cost of services that doctors and hospitals choose to provide for free voluntarily, out of charity.

The Myth of the Uninsured Deadbeat was a fantasy -- a bogeyman that Obama used to get people to justify their unethical support of a law mandating people buy things they do not want, supposedly for their own good.

Thank you for detailing that out more then I did.


I can't believe either of you is serious.
 
2013-12-05 05:00:22 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


You forgot doubling my healthcare costs, but hey some eggs blah, blah, blah. No sale.


Unlikely.
 
2013-12-05 05:11:47 AM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Lando Lincoln: What would be a long-term improvement?

Doing away with all but catastrophic insurance (for health, car, house, etc.), expecting people (and cities and businesses) to save money for hardships, and not bailing them out every time there is one.

But that's long long term improvement. Like two generations of people with their hands out at least.


Saving money for hardships?  So, 2nd generation millionaires only?

You would doom most of the nation to an early grave with your plan.
 
2013-12-05 05:57:56 AM  

47 is the new 42: Divinegrace: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

The American people are not 'guaranteed' anything. Each and every American will have to pay for their own insurance, the government doesn't pay for anything...and if an American DOESN'T or CAN'T afford to pay for that insurance they will PAY a fine to the government.  Obama sold America to the insurance companies, cheap...period, end of story.

I recall there being subsidies for people that make under a certain amount and whose employers don't offer health insurance.


Subsidies does not equal free...they still have to pay money (albeit less, but pay never the less). If the don't buy insurance they will be fined. Our government has passed a law that forces people to buy a product...while this is the first time it has happened, you can bet your butt it will not be the last (now that the precedent has been set)

To be fair, Obama is just one in a long line of politicians / President to sell out Americans...

Bush Jr - Sold us out to Haliburton and the like.
Clinton - signed NAFTA.
Bush Sr - Sold out to the same group his boy did.

None of these guys (Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush) will ever 'go hungry' again (not that they ever went hungry to begin with).

Selling out America to corporations is not a Republican problem, or a Democrat problem...they are ALL guilty of treason, they should ALL be convicted and punished accordingly IMHO.

But hay, Republicans should go head and keep pointing the finger at Democrats.
The Democrats should go head and keep pointing the finger at Republicans.
That has work out well so far, right!
 
2013-12-05 06:03:28 AM  

knobmaker: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: What's sad is the crap we were sold. And you aren't bright enough to see it. Damned jackass.

Tell me, did you even look at your state's exchange or the Federal exchange if you live in a state where spiteful republicans are actively trying to ruin their citizens' lives for some perceived political gain?

As bitter as you sound, I'm willing to bet it's the latter, and that you didn't because, reasons.

Now I know I'm being trolled, nobody's that stupid.

So you didn't check.



Wrong again as usual. Back to your mom's basement failure-boy.
 
2013-12-05 06:04:18 AM  

Alphax: Whatchoo Talkinbout: nmrsnr: Whatchoo Talkinbout: It sucked as a theory. It sucked as a rollout. It sucks as a product.

I'm sure it'll work out fine.

First of all, it's not a product. Second of all, which of these benefits would you like to take away from the American people:

1. No more preexisting condition exclusion
2. Kids can stay on until age 26
3. Closed Medicare "donut hole"
4. 85-15 rule for insurance providers, some people have actually gotten checks from their insurer
5. No lifetime caps on insurance


You forgot doubling my healthcare costs, but hey some eggs blah, blah, blah. No sale.

Unlikely.



Only in your mom's basement. now go back there fool.
 
2013-12-05 06:07:55 AM  

Alphax: mjones73: Phinn: Trid_Kicker: mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?

Like the car insurance I'm forced to have or lose my license over?

Like the homeowner's insurance I'm forced to pay or lose my house over?

Like the liability insurance my doctor's forced to pay or lose his practice over?

Well, I can see your point.  Having to buy insurance has ruined driving, housing, and pre-Obamacare medicine.  I'm convinced.

Those forms of insurance exist to protect other people -- the other driver you hit, the bank that is insuring its loan more than your actual house, and the patient you injure.

People should be allowed to choose if they want to take the risk of insuring themselves, to protect themselves, and their own ability to receive care for themselves.  They may, for example, simply choose to expend the cost of living a very healthy lifestyle.  (Unlike the people who are the reason for two-thirds of all medical expenses in the USA, which are the result of self-inflicted, voluntary bad lifestyle choices -- obesity, inactivity, smoking, alcohol and drug abuse.

And before you say that Obamacare exists to solve the problem of all of the people who supposedly would go without insurance and run up big medical bills and fail to pay (thus burdening everyone else), that figure amounts to less than 2% of all medical costs.  Two percent of the cost of all medical services is involuntarily unpaid.  That's less than half of the cost of services that doctors and hospitals choose to provide for free voluntarily, out of charity.

The Myth of the Uninsured Deadbeat was a fantasy -- a bogeyman that Obama used to get people to justify their unethical support of a law mandating people buy things they do not want, supposedly for their own good.

Thank you for detailing that out more then I did.

I can't believe either of you is serious.


I know. That's why you will never understand the extent to which you and hundreds of millions of others are being screwed.

Enjoy your blissful ignorance, meat puppet.
 
2013-12-05 06:13:49 AM  

The Envoy: Deep Contact: Odumber is just a lying sac of poop. Just go back to Kenya!

Oh thank FSM the intelligentsia has arrived.

Get off your Dad's PC kid.



My dad died in 1971 retard.
 
2013-12-05 06:29:40 AM  

Phinn: I know. That's why you will never understand the extent to which you and hundreds of millions of others are being screwed.


images.wikia.com
 
2013-12-05 09:11:11 AM  

Divinegrace: 47 is the new 42: Divinegrace: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

The American people are not 'guaranteed' anything. Each and every American will have to pay for their own insurance, the government doesn't pay for anything...and if an American DOESN'T or CAN'T afford to pay for that insurance they will PAY a fine to the government.  Obama sold America to the insurance companies, cheap...period, end of story.

I recall there being subsidies for people that make under a certain amount and whose employers don't offer health insurance.

Subsidies does not equal free...they still have to pay money (albeit less, but pay never the less). If the don't buy insurance they will be fined. Our government has passed a law that forces people to buy a product...while this is the first time it has happened, you can bet your butt it will not be the last (now that the precedent has been set)


Nope.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2011/01/17/congress-passes-soc ia lized-medicine-and-mandates-health-insurance-in-1798/


To be fair, Obama is just one in a long line of politicians / President to sell out Americans...

Bush Jr - Sold us out to Haliburton and the like.
Clinton - signed NAFTA.
Bush Sr - Sold out to the same group his boy did.

None of these guys (Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush) will ever 'go hungry' again (not that they ever went hungry to begin with).

Selling out America to corporations is not a Republican problem, or a Democrat problem...they are ALL guilty of treason, they should ALL be convicted and punished accordingly IMHO.

But hay, Republicans should go head and keep pointing the finger at Democrats.
The Democrats should go head and keep pointing the finger at Republicans.
That has work out well so far, right!


Both sides are bad so either is preferable, right?

Obama is on record as wanting single payer and a public option but he didn't have the votes for it so the current ACA is a compromise that only goes part way.  It doesn't got far enough but it certainly is a step in the right direction.  In politics, you never get anywhere if you only swing for the fences every time you get up to bat.  Accept the base hit as progress even if all by itself it doesn't score any runs.  A couple more like it and we'll finally get somewhere.  The saga of women's suffrage and gay rights is/was a long slow chipping away at the old naysayers and cultural conservatism.  It took time but ultimately it was successful.  Socialized medicine is on the same path now.

Remember Hilarycare back in the 90s?  She swung for the fences and was practically laughed out of town for it.  So damaging was her all-or-nothing crusade that the issue of socialized medicine couldn't even be broached for almost 15 years afterwards.  Obama is taking the slower, baby steps approach instead: Start with insurance companies instead of gov't, expand Medicaid which is an already existing program, define minimum care standards, small but increasing penalty for not participating, full time employees only for now.  That is compromise, which is the essence of politics.  It's where we are now, but there's no reason to believe it's where we must ultimately stay.
 
2013-12-05 09:47:46 AM  

Giltric: It would have been repealed already if they didn't limit the nuclear option to judicial appointments only.


In a Democratic-controlled Senate? Are you high?
 
2013-12-05 10:00:56 AM  
To be fair... I do feel good about their chances of finally getting Obama out of the White House after the next election. Replacing him with a Republican is iffy.
 
2013-12-05 10:04:45 AM  

mjones73: meat0918: Yes, please proceed on running on the promise of taking away the guarantee of health insurance.

You mean health insurance you're forced to have or pay a fine over?


You being forced to pay for your own health care beats the heck out of your uninsured arse showing up at the emergency room and then me and my insurance being forced to pay twice because you couldn't afford it.
 
2013-12-05 10:08:43 AM  

mark12A: Once people realize what the Dems did to them, there hopefully won't be any more Affirmative Action Hires elected to the White House anytime soon....


Fortunately everyone assures us that Conservatives are unfairly labeled as racists. So as not to misinterpret your drivel as racist.
 
2013-12-05 10:41:31 AM  

Joe Blowme: Giving people affordable health care means they have more money to spend frivolously.

Know how i know you dont have to buy ACA insurance?


Same anecdote. Different thread:

I was working as an IT contractor until getting hired on full-time in May of this year. I was getting insurance my my wife and myself through my employer TEKSystems. We were paying $170/WEEK ($680/mo) for insurance that had a $50 copay, $5,000 deductible, and covered 60% up to my $12,000 max annual. Premiums ONLY come to $8160 a year.

The very lowest Bronze plan I can even choose, has a similar deductible but a max out of pocket of almost $6000/a year less. At $200/month that's almost a $6000 annual savings ($680*12 = $8160) - ($200*12 = $2400) = $5760.

I save $6000 a year for better insurance even if I don't use it ever. If I used it to that maximum out of pocket I would save: ($12000 - $6131 = $5869) + $5760 on premiums = $11629 annually.

A Platinum plan would save us ($680*12 = $8160) - ($381*12 = $4572) = $3588 annually. At the maximum out of pocket we would save ($12000 - $1500 = $10500) + $3588 on premiums = $14,088 annually.

Thanks, Obama. No seriously, THANKS!
teamshocker.com
 
2013-12-05 11:01:18 AM  
yeah good luck with that
 
2013-12-05 12:00:56 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Wrong again as usual. Back to your mom's basement failure-boy.


I've made full disclosure: My insurer, my plan, my 2013 rate and my 2014 rate.  So have more than a few other people.

How about you do the same, and stop with the childishness and petulant insults?

You're not convincing anyone, and turning off more than a few.  Why is that a reasonable way to proceed?
 
2013-12-05 12:06:23 PM  

42_42_42: Do we REALLY think they're going to do any better with healthcare?


As opposed to the current private market system now? Yes. Yes I do.
 
2013-12-05 12:08:12 PM  

Phinn: Enjoy your blissful ignorance, meat puppet.


Are you a silicon-based life-form?
 
2013-12-05 12:10:22 PM  

Deep Contact: The Envoy: Deep Contact: Odumber is just a lying sac of poop. Just go back to Kenya!

Oh thank FSM the intelligentsia has arrived.

Get off your Dad's PC kid.


My dad died in 1971 retard.


Well, at least he was spared the disappointment of seeing his child grow in to a mentally deficient adult.
 
2013-12-05 12:18:51 PM  

The Envoy: Deep Contact: The Envoy: Deep Contact: Odumber is just a lying sac of poop. Just go back to Kenya!

Oh thank FSM the intelligentsia has arrived.

Get off your Dad's PC kid.


My dad died in 1971 retard.

Well, at least he was spared the disappointment of seeing his child grow in to a mentally deficient adult.


At least I'm not as mentally retarded at Odumber.
 
2013-12-05 12:25:45 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Wrong again as usual. Back to your mom's basement failure-boy.

I've made full disclosure: My insurer, my plan, my 2013 rate and my 2014 rate.  So have more than a few other people.

How about you do the same, and stop with the childishness and petulant insults?

You're not convincing anyone, and turning off more than a few.  Why is that a reasonable way to proceed?



Give my personal information to a random internet jackass? Sounds as good as ACA is turning out to be.
My personal experience says it sucks, I'm sorry you can't deal with that, but you're obviously in the bag for someone.
 
2013-12-05 12:44:17 PM  

Deep Contact: At least I'm not as mentally retarded at Odumber.


Oh Lordy. Thank you, Internet. You make me laugh so.
 
2013-12-05 12:44:52 PM  

Persnickety: Both sides are bad so either is preferable, right?

Obama is on record as wanting single payer and a public option but he didn't have the votes for it so the current ACA is a compromise that only goes part way.  It doesn't got far enough but it certainly is a step in the right direction.  In politics, you never get anywhere if you only swing for the fences every time you get up to bat.  Accept the base hit as progress even if all by itself it doesn't score any runs.  A couple more like it and we'll finally get somewhere.  The saga of women's suffrage and gay rights is/was a long slow chipping away at the old naysayers and cultural conservatism.  It took time but ultimately it was successful.  Socialized medicine is on the same path now.

Remember Hilarycare back in the 90s?  She swung for the fences and was practically laughed out of town for it.  So damaging was her all-or-nothing crusade that the issue of socialized medicine couldn't even be broached for almost 15 years afterwards.  Obama is taking the slower, baby steps approach instead: Start with insurance companies instead of gov't, expand Medicaid which is an already existing program, define minimum care standards, small but increasing penalty for not participating, full time employees only for now.  That is compromise, which is the essence of politics.  It's where we are now, but there's no reason to believe it's where we must ultimately stay.


The choice for every American is buy their product OR be treated like a criminal (and pay fines like a criminal)... The choice for sole proprietor's / partnerships that are run by people of faith is not ONLY condone things against their faith like birth control, but they ALSO have to personally / professionally FINANCE it OR be fined like a criminal. I am a person of faith and while I am not Catholic there are many aspects about the Catholic Church that I understand and agree with (the concept of confession as an example), however I don't understand or agree with the whole 'no birth control' concept. That said, just because I don't understand and I personally don't AGREE with the 'no birth control' concept that doesn't give me the right to tell another that their culture, traditions, and faith is not only wrong, butunconstitutional.

America (and the world at large) has PLENTY of ways to raise money for socialized medicine without forcing people to buy a product or be fined like a criminal, or making a person of faith choice between their faith, or getting fined like a criminal.The issue with the ACA is not that it is socialized medicine, the issue is that ACA is from its base up...unconstitutional and to pass such a law is IMO treason, plain and simple.
 
2013-12-05 12:45:22 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Give my personal information to a random internet jackass?


What "personal information"?  Are you high?

Insurance company name, rates, and coverage, not your address and social security number.  We're asking for publicly available stuff which doesn't identify you in any way.  People *do* shop for insurance, you know.  Put up or shut up.

To fail to do so, and to fail back on a patently absurd excuse, when plenty of others have already done so at no peril whatsoever is simple intellectual* cowardice.

(*I use the word "intellectual" at my peril, here, I know.)

The only thing I'm "in the bag" for is objectively verifiable facts.  And you're too gutless to provide any to back up your claims.

I wonder why.

How about this: what's your zip code?  I'll look up the exchange plans myself.

Because you're certainly behaving like you're full of it.
 
2013-12-05 12:48:49 PM  

Divinegrace: the issue is that ACA is from its base up...unconstitutional and to pass such a law is IMO treason, plain and simple.


Local Man Passionate Defender....
 
2013-12-05 01:17:14 PM  

Deucednuisance: Divinegrace: the issue is that ACA is from its base up...unconstitutional and to pass such a law is IMO treason, plain and simple.

Local Man Passionate Defender....


First: I think you meant "Area Man Passionate Defender".
Second: Take out the whole part that forces people of faith to go against their faith or be fined and the ACA is still unconstitutional (due to the whole 'buy what I tell you to buy or you will be fined like a criminal' part).
 
2013-12-05 01:26:17 PM  

Deep Contact: At least I'm not as mentally retarded at Odumber.


Whoopsie!  I forgot to add "delusional" to "mentally deficient".
 
2013-12-05 01:47:47 PM  

Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Give my personal information to a random internet jackass?

What "personal information"?  Are you high?

Insurance company name, rates, and coverage, not your address and social security number.  We're asking for publicly available stuff which doesn't identify you in any way.  People *do* shop for insurance, you know.  Put up or shut up.

To fail to do so, and to fail back on a patently absurd excuse, when plenty of others have already done so at no peril whatsoever is simple intellectual* cowardice.

(*I use the word "intellectual" at my peril, here, I know.)

The only thing I'm "in the bag" for is objectively verifiable facts.  And you're too gutless to provide any to back up your claims.

I wonder why.

How about this: what's your zip code?  I'll look up the exchange plans myself.

Because you're certainly behaving like you're full of i



You're obviously deranged, you will get nowhere near me or my family's info, moron. You're heroes have failed you miserably, learn to deal with these things better. Now put your helmet on and take your meds. Welcome to ignore, dipshiat.
 
2013-12-05 02:13:14 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: You're obviously deranged, you will get nowhere near me or my family's info, moron. You're heroes have failed you miserably, learn to deal with these things better. Now put your helmet on and take your meds. Welcome to ignore, dipshiat.


His request was simple and does not, in any way, jeopardise your anonymity if done correctly.   Pangeamanaged it above.  That you won't signifies that maybe you aren't being honest about the alleged impact on you.  You could have avoided that by posting anonymous information which corroborates your story.  Instead you retreated in to insult and then to the ignore list.  That only does one thing: makes the rest of us doubt your story even more.  So now you're either a liar or a troll, and one whose sole motivation is to stay in line with a particular ideology.  That (and the use of ignore) would be the intellectual cowardice referred to earlier.

Like he said: put up or shut up.  Now's the time because you've discredited yourself far better than anybody else could have done.  You're the only one who can rescue the situation now.
 
2013-12-05 02:35:07 PM  

Divinegrace: Second: Take out the whole part that forces people of faith to go against their faith or be fined and the ACA is still unconstitutional (due to the whole 'buy what I tell you to buy or you will be fined like a criminal' part).


I trust you can find a competent court of record that concurs with you and provide us with a citation to that effect?

Because a lot of folks have made that argument at trial and each one has failed, if memory serves.

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Now put your helmet on and take your meds.


I always wear a helmet when I ride.  I hope everyone here does!

As to my meds, that's why I selected the High Option: Generics are free for me at the pharmacy, and I have no deductibles, at all.  So, yes, I pay a little more up-front, but more than make up for that over the course of the year.  I'll take today's pharmaceutical toast right after I finish lunch: Some of them need to be taken with food, you see.  But thanks for the reminder, glad that you are able to show some concern for your fellow citizens.

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Welcome to ignore, dipshiat.


Aw, how sweet.  Love you, too.
 
2013-12-05 02:55:00 PM  
Divinegrace:

The choice for every American is buy their product OR be treated like a criminal (and pay fines like a criminal)...

There is nothing implied in the paying of taxes that has anything to do with criminality.  Uninsured people showing up in the ER with no way to pay are a huge drain on our tax coffers.  The #1 cause of bankruptcy in the US is not bad money management, it's the inability to pay sky high medical bills due to an illness or an accident.  Since this ends up costing all of us money, the gov't has an interest in seeing those costs covered, thus the tax for those who won't take responsibility for themselves or continue to run on teenage magic thinking that nothing bad will ever happen to them so why take precautions?

The choice for sole proprietor's / partnerships that are run by people of faith is not ONLY condone things against their faith like birth control, but they ALSO have to personally / professionally FINANCE it OR be fined like a criminal. I am a person of faith and while I am not Catholic there are many aspects about the Catholic Church that I understand and agree with (the concept of confession as an example), however I don't understand or agree with the whole 'no birth control' concept. That said, just because I don't understand and I personally don't AGREE with the 'no birth control' concept that doesn't give me the right to tell another that their culture, traditions, and faith is not only wrong, butunconstitutional.

There is no obligation whatsoever that employers provide health care coverage for their employees.  There are tax incentives to do so but tax exempt organizations like churches don't need them.  And for those that do pitch in, it is still up to their employees to decide for themselves whether or not to seek the health care that they - not their employers - choose to be right for them.  Christian Scientists don't believe in medications or blood transfusions.  Some religions tout faith healing.  Should we really be letting religions dictate what is or isn't medical care or is this a better job left to medical science?

If you're talking about paying personal taxes instead of corporations or religious groups, well, get in line behind the rest of us.  Personally, I found the entire Iraq War to be morally objectionable on almost every front yet I was forced to pay for it just like everyone else.  Where's my special exemption?


America (and the world at large) has PLENTY of ways to raise money for socialized medicine without forcing people to buy a product or be fined like a criminal,

Again, you aren't being treated like a criminal.  You are being taxed.  It's a power explicitly granted to our government.  If that makes you feel one way or another, that's your problem.


 or making a person of faith choice between their faith or getting fined like a criminal,

That's not happening either.  No one is making you get an abortion if you choose to sign up for health care.

The issue with the ACA is not that it is socialized medicine, the issue is that ACA is from its base up...unconstitutional and to pass such a law is IMO treason, plain and simple.

SCOTUS disagrees with you, but hey, what do they know?
 
2013-12-05 02:59:22 PM  
Persnickety:

There is no obligation whatsoever that employers provide health care coverage for their employees.


Ack!  Meant to put in the under 50 employees exclusion here.  Note that this means 96% of all employers are exempt from the mandate.
 
2013-12-05 03:54:15 PM  

The Envoy: Whatchoo Talkinbout: You're obviously deranged, you will get nowhere near me or my family's info, moron. You're heroes have failed you miserably, learn to deal with these things better. Now put your helmet on and take your meds. Welcome to ignore, dipshiat.

His request was simple and does not, in any way, jeopardise your anonymity if done correctly.   Pangeamanaged it above.  That you won't signifies that maybe you aren't being honest about the alleged impact on you.  You could have avoided that by posting anonymous information which corroborates your story.  Instead you retreated in to insult and then to the ignore list.  That only does one thing: makes the rest of us doubt your story even more.  So now you're either a liar or a troll, and one whose sole motivation is to stay in line with a particular ideology.  That (and the use of ignore) would be the intellectual cowardice referred to earlier.

Like he said: put up or shut up.  Now's the time because you've discredited yourself far better than anybody else could have done.  You're the only one who can rescue the situation now.


No more than you jackass, say hi to your friend in ignore-land. Stalker-troll elsewhere.
There is no 'rest of us' butthole, just you two.
 
2013-12-05 05:11:33 PM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: No more than you jackass, say hi to your friend in ignore-land. Stalker-troll elsewhere.
There is no 'rest of us' butthole, just you two.


Definitely everybody here sunshine.  The petulance and whiney responses only serve to confirm what we all think already.  I will slightly modify my opinion of you though.  Instead of a liar or a trolling adult, now I think you're a lying or trolling teenager.  Also:
i290.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-05 07:04:32 PM  
For those who want to compare plans before and after, by all means.  Select a state and let's be mature about it.  Maybe some states I have not looked at yet show some benefits for some people in some cases as a few people above have eluded to, so let's compare the options.
 
2013-12-06 03:57:18 AM  

Whatchoo Talkinbout: Deucednuisance: Whatchoo Talkinbout: Give my personal information to a random internet jackass?

What "personal information"?  Are you high?

Insurance company name, rates, and coverage, not your address and social security number.  We're asking for publicly available stuff which doesn't identify you in any way.  People *do* shop for insurance, you know.  Put up or shut up.

To fail to do so, and to fail back on a patently absurd excuse, when plenty of others have already done so at no peril whatsoever is simple intellectual* cowardice.

(*I use the word "intellectual" at my peril, here, I know.)

The only thing I'm "in the bag" for is objectively verifiable facts.  And you're too gutless to provide any to back up your claims.

I wonder why.

How about this: what's your zip code?  I'll look up the exchange plans myself.

Because you're certainly behaving like you're full of i


You're obviously deranged, you will get nowhere near me or my family's info, moron. You're heroes have failed you miserably, learn to deal with these things better. Now put your helmet on and take your meds. Welcome to ignore, dipshiat.


or just pick and choose a number in the state you sneezed in one day.
 
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