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(LA Times)   Not news: Windows market share grows. Fark: Windows 7   (latimes.com) divider line 248
    More: Obvious, Windows, market share, Net Applications, Windows market share, operating systems, unique user, Windows XP  
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4624 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Dec 2013 at 8:58 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-04 08:46:57 AM
Businesses are extremely change shy, and 7 is WAY closer to XP than 8. Makes sense to me.

My company is making the change ONLY because they are forced due to MS stopping XP support this year. NO WAY they will touch 8 because of the UI.
 
2013-12-04 09:00:15 AM
I like Windows 7 MUCH more than 8.
 
2013-12-04 09:00:57 AM
Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great
 
2013-12-04 09:02:32 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Businesses are extremely change shy, and 7 is WAY closer to XP than 8. Makes sense to me.


We just migrated to Win 7 from XP six months ago as well. Kicker is that I still have to keep my XP machine running because there are apps I use on a daily basis that won't run on the 64-bit version of Win 7.
 
2013-12-04 09:03:47 AM
That's not unusual.  Most large companies are slow-adopters of new platforms.  I work for a Fortune 100 with over 35000 connected people, and we are still in the process of migrating to 7.
 
2013-12-04 09:04:54 AM
I used Windows 2000 up until '07. Only switched to Windows 7 because Steam games would no longer run on 2000. But 2000 was so stable, I rarely had issues and the OS ran fast.
 
2013-12-04 09:06:53 AM

The Crepes of Wrath: SecretAgentWoman: Businesses are extremely change shy, and 7 is WAY closer to XP than 8. Makes sense to me.

We just migrated to Win 7 from XP six months ago as well. Kicker is that I still have to keep my XP machine running because there are apps I use on a daily basis that won't run on the 64-bit version of Win 7.


I have a couple legacy apps like that that I have to run on XP virtual machines in Win 7...it works, but it's clunky.
 
2013-12-04 09:10:00 AM

smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great


This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great
 
2013-12-04 09:10:21 AM
Microsoft needs to realize that there are two reasons why people use computers.

Production and consumption.

People need two different interfaces for this to be truly happy, as they really go directly against each other in design methodology.  Production requires keyboard, mouse, lots of buttons, menus, etc.  People are making stuff here.  Consumption leans towards touch screens, big easy buttons, media, etc.

iOS is a great consumption OS.  It and its platforms aren't really tailored to production.
Windows XP is a great production OS.  Its simple, has everything people needed (at its time) to make things.

The two really shouldn't be mixed together.  You'll get the worst of both worlds and you won't be able to do either.  Windows 8 is Microsoft's attempt to do that.  It just doesn't work.  It really should almost dual boot to one or the other.  Interactive touch screen that has all the extra stuff eliminated for when people just want to watch netflix or check the weather.  Or boot to an exact copy of the Windows 7 start screen with start button, icons, task bar, etc... with the added capability of Windows 8 in the background... for when people want to make a PDF, do homework, etc.

They screwed up with this one.
 
2013-12-04 09:11:58 AM
Metro UI can DIAF!
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-12-04 09:12:04 AM
8, as with other OS changes, chose to adopt a new paradigm in UI.
Different enough to cause people to lose productivity.
Change-lovers can hem and haw all they want about "you need change for progress" but when you impact usability and users output (read:work productivity as a product) you run afoul of the goal of business; the bottomline.
If it costs the company via wasted human resource input/output it WILL become a target for scorn and derision.
Also, the beancounters will end up with a say in it and once they decide it is an item that needs studies and business-case write-ups, good luck.
 
2013-12-04 09:12:08 AM
It's such a simple fix for Microsoft.  Just make the damn metro thing an option that you can turn on and off.  But no, they are going to be stubborn and try to force this on everyone.  Not me, I will hold out with Win 7 and if that becomes obsolete I'll migrate to Linux full time.
 
2013-12-04 09:12:15 AM

Loaf's Tray: I have a couple legacy apps like that that I have to run on XP virtual machines in Win 7...it works, but it's clunky.


I tried the XP virtual machine, and it was far too slow.  As in a process taking almost 10 minutes in the VM vs. under a minute on my old XP machine.

We didn't have a KVM switch handy when setting up the new machine, so we just connected the two, and I use remote desktop to access the XP box from Win 7.
 
2013-12-04 09:14:19 AM
I don't really understand why they decided to change the entire primary UI to begin with.  It's one thing to improve security, add some new apps, and generally make the OS faster.  That's all great. But changing the UI is a BIG mistake.  It doesn't make any difference if it's easier to use or not.  It's too different.  Users do not want to spend ANY extra seconds poking around to find what was self evident yesterday.  So for all they've done to make a new UI that is suitable for tablets as well as business machines, they totally screwed the pooch.

Has anyone noticed how strikingly similar the Android OS looks like an iPhone?  There is a very simple reason for that.  It's familiar.  No learning curve.  So what does MS do?  They came up with a completely NEW UI that people will have to get used to.  And they thought this was such a good idea that they are now making it the primary UI for desktops and laptops?!

It really does seem like MS likes to commit suicide once every-other OS or so.

So, as it stands, I hope they are prepared to keep supporting 7 for a long time.  Because 8 will almost certainly never be adopted.  Hell, there are a LOT of people in my office here (a HUGE company), that still use XP.
 
2013-12-04 09:14:53 AM
Microsoft just does not get it. Most people don't want a touchscreen UI on a desktop computer. They are so desperate to get a slice of the tablet market, that they are trying to coerce people into a Surface tablet by making the UI the same on tablets and desktops.
 
2013-12-04 09:15:46 AM
I use Win8.1 at home, and I like the speed. The interface, not so much, so I installed Classic Shell. Windows 8 is annoying because o sometimes have trouble finding how to do something the Win8 way, and the default "cloud" connected set-up.

I have a relative whose job includes IT support for retirement community residents. Win 8 is a nightmare for him.
 
2013-12-04 09:16:58 AM
Awww, Mac(UNIX)OS made it over 4%, isn't that nice. . .
 
2013-12-04 09:17:11 AM
The place I've worked at is finally switching from XP to 7, mainly because the owner buys a few new computers every year and this year finally all of his workstations have 7 licenses. He just didn't want to pay for separate licenses for older PCs that wouldn't be around much longer.
 
2013-12-04 09:17:12 AM
a run a small music studio out of my house and I can tell you all the do it yourself audio guys I know absolutely refuse to go Windows 8
 
2013-12-04 09:17:53 AM
I will personally march the designers who thought the Metro interface was a good idea in Server 2012 to the wall when the revolution comes. Tablet interface on desktop? Stupid. Tablet interface on server? OMGWTF where were you guys when god passed out the brains? Did somebody Jiggle his elbow, or was the jar empty?

/Rageuninstall
 
2013-12-04 09:18:01 AM

smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.


8 doesn't suck. 8 is basically 7 with a bad Start Menu replacement. It might as well have been a service pack.

8.1 is a lot better than 8 though. Much is made about the Start Button and it is nice to have there without having to hit just the right spot to activate the charm, or to keep having to hit the Windows Key. I would prefer the ability to go back to a more traditional Start Menu rather than the Metro one, but they did at least stop the annoying practice of putting Every. Single. Icon. on your Start Menu by default, now hiding them in like a sub-menu. You have to go find a lot of stuff you do want to show up, which is annoying, but it's a lot better than having to remove every damn Registration/Config/Uninstall icon for every program you install.
 
2013-12-04 09:18:27 AM
Windows 8 is an operating system for tablets. Full stop. Using it on a desktop computer implies you are mentally retarded or take a kickback from Microsoft.
 
2013-12-04 09:18:46 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great

This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great


You're right. I purposely left out everything before XP. You left off 3.1 which was good and the various versions of MS-DOS which were pretty solid too!

I still use the old DOS commands, I haven't had the time to sit down with PowerShell yet to learn anything with that.
 
2013-12-04 09:19:15 AM
I spend all day walking people through uninstalling IE 10 and 11 from their windows 7 PCs.
So I'm getting a kick out of this.
Also, uninstalling IE 11 from window 8.
 
2013-12-04 09:19:36 AM
I would hereby like to point out that this is my favorite thread of the week so far.  I actually agree with about 99.99% of what's being said.


home.comcast.net
 
2013-12-04 09:19:54 AM
We had a very short meeting about whether we would make the move.

"If you install that on my work machine I'll cut you."

...and that was about the end of it.
 
2013-12-04 09:20:23 AM

smoky2010: I still use the old DOS commands


I still get calls for help with that, too.
 
2013-12-04 09:20:42 AM

AgentPothead: Windows 8 is an operating system for tablets. Full stop. Using it on a desktop computer implies you are mentally retarded or take a kickback from Microsoft.


THIS!

And Office 2013 is also designed for tablets. I'd rather use 2010 on a PC, any day.
 
2013-12-04 09:20:51 AM

smoky2010: AverageAmericanGuy: smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great

This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great

You're right. I purposely left out everything before XP. You left off 3.1 which was good and the various versions of MS-DOS which were pretty solid too!

I still use the old DOS commands, I haven't had the time to sit down with PowerShell yet to learn anything with that.


I was mostly objecting to the omission of pre-XP NT systems. 3.1 and DOS are their own little evolutionary branch.
 
2013-12-04 09:20:55 AM
Loaf's Tray:

I have a couple legacy apps like that that I have to run on XP virtual machines in Win 7...it works, but it's clunky.

Same here. I run them in a VM under Linux.  Less clunky than under Win 7.
 
2013-12-04 09:21:05 AM
I'd rather run Vista than Windows 8
 
2013-12-04 09:21:25 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I upgraded my wife's Windows 8 machine and was happy to see they put a Start button back. But when I pressed it...

[www.superutils.com image 850x477]

[healthzone.mediktv.com image 600x450]


Windows 8 makes blood spray out of my eyes. It's like a GUI threw up. It's like some portal opened up back to the early '90s and Compuserve or AOL came back to life and infested a computer. It's nasty.
 
2013-12-04 09:21:32 AM
Winblow 8:  Let's fix what's not broken because fark you that's why
 
2013-12-04 09:22:35 AM

smoky2010: AgentPothead: Windows 8 is an operating system for tablets. Full stop. Using it on a desktop computer implies you are mentally retarded or take a kickback from Microsoft.

THIS!

And Office 2013 is also designed for tablets. I'd rather use 2010 on a PC, any day.



Thisthis.
 
2013-12-04 09:22:37 AM

durbnpoisn: I would hereby like to point out that this is my favorite thread of the week so far.  I actually agree with about 99.99% of what's being said.


You're welcome.
/subby
 
2013-12-04 09:22:47 AM
just got an intel based chromebook. gonna throw linux on there.

/windows 8 doesnt seem that bad compared to what they did to office.
 
2013-12-04 09:22:48 AM

skinink: I used Windows 2000 up until '07. Only switched to Windows 7 because Steam games would no longer run on 2000. But 2000 was so stable, I rarely had issues and the OS ran fast.


I totally get why businesses are slow to upgrade. The sad thing is, there are individual consumers out there who are not only slow to adopt/adapt, but get pissed that <insert program/app> won't run on their Win98/NT4 machine or iPad...*one*. They seem shocked that the company that makes their OS/device won't continue supporting it once it's been supplanted 5 times over.

Of, course, you also have the opposite - the early adopters who upgrade to <latest OS> the day it's released, and are upset that all of their favorite apps/programs don't work anymore.

/was 12 or 13 before I got my first computer
//which used a tape deck for storage
 
2013-12-04 09:22:54 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great

This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great


It also ignores that people were biatching and moaning about how inferior XP was to 2000 when it came out as well. A lot of people hated it
 
2013-12-04 09:23:41 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: I upgraded my wife's Windows 8 machine and was happy to see they put a Start button back. But when I pressed it...

[www.superutils.com image 850x477]

[healthzone.mediktv.com image 600x450]


Oh, it looks nasty, but if you click "start" and start typing as you did with Win7, you'll start getting search results in the same way.

I don't have a tablet, though, so Win8 is far from my computer at home.  :D
 
2013-12-04 09:24:06 AM

Smeggy Smurf: Winblow 8:  Let's fix what's not broken because fark you that's why


Windows 8 because we want to compete with the Apple market of home computing and did not realize this would scare off all of our business customers
 
2013-12-04 09:25:04 AM

The Crepes of Wrath


I tried the XP virtual machine, and it was far too slow. As in a process taking almost 10 minutes in the VM vs. under a minute on my old XP machine.


You know that you need to assign sufficient resources to the VM for it to work well, right? You can't give it 128MB RAM and expect decent results.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:11 AM
I have no idea how this is news, or surprising. Win 8 is an utter abomination, useless for most everything except touch pads/tabs (and honestly not that great even on them). In truth XP is still perfectly fine for MOST end users. It's only game compatibility that drives even Win 7 sales.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:20 AM

redmid17: AverageAmericanGuy: smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great

This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great

It also ignores that people were biatching and moaning about how inferior XP was to 2000 when it came out as well. A lot of people hated it


This is true. But at least XP became Windows 2000.1 when you disabled Luna.

Win8 has no such feature to disable Metro.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:24 AM

SecretAgentWoman: Businesses are extremely change shy, and 7 is WAY closer to XP than 8. Makes sense to me.

My company is making the change ONLY because they are forced due to MS stopping XP support this year. NO WAY they will touch 8 because of the UI.


Time to get a new IT department then if that is their only reason. There is no reason that you can't customize 8 to work in a way that will be comfortable for your user base.

There are valid reasons for holding out, granted. The hardware lifecycle came around big in the early 2000s, when most places went to XP. Vista was a clunker and the memory requirements to go to Vista and 7 tended to be more than the 256mb that most early 2000s machines were purchased with. Even with attribution, a company is going to be hesitant to run two different os's, hence the XP machines continuing to roll out.

Add to that the rise of VDI, web based apps, BYO computing, etc, and there is a lack of a compelling reason to jump to a new OS. What the push is going to be now to get people onto it is the lack of vendor support for those really old boxes, and end of support for things like IE 8.

Most places I work with are still in a wait and see mode, trying out BYO, building out cloud infrastructure, etc. It isn't so much a question of "People will hate 8\we can't do what we want with it" but more of a question of it aligning with their near term business goals, and if they even want to be in the business of supporting a traditional desktop\laptop environment. IT folks who are riding the "windows 8 sucks!" bandwagon are ultimately only riding it on their way out the door. I agree that BYO and VDI aren't this silver bullet and don't fit every need, but saying you can't work with the tools given to you only makes people look for new tools, and the people who can work with them. If your an IT grunt, huge changes are on the horizon in the next 2 years, and you are going to make or break your career. Its a dumb time to be saying, "we can't do this"

Where MS missed the boat was making 8 a little too tablet centric. the tile screen is actually pretty good if you take the time to set it up for what you do, even as a power user, and if you are on a touch device, its pretty slick. Yea, out of the box it blows, and is cluttered with a ton of crap most people don't need and missing what they do. Again though, that is something that is easy for any half competent IT department to address. Overall the OS runs superior to 7. Yea some of the things we were used to for the last 15 years have changed, and take a little getting used to, but once you do, it is an improvement in many respects.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:34 AM
Windows 8 is a huge disaster, no doubt - in addition to consulting with large organizations I work with small businesses - a lot of them are sole proprietors and a typical example is a guy in his 50's or 60's.

If I was dumb enough to even TRY to get them to learn Windows 8 my reputation would be done.  It's not intuitive at all.  It's just a giant pain in the ass.  Photos for instance - I still have no idea how to navigate the default interface, plus the fact that photos stored in the libraries are treated and controlled different than photos stored in other folder.

Fortunately if you google it there's tons of sites that show you how kill most of Windows 8 features and make it act like Win 7.
 
2013-12-04 09:25:53 AM
I'm sure I could adapt to Win 8, but I don't feel the need to do so. As XP will be losing support soon, I plan on moving my mother to a Win 7 computer fairly soon; there's sure to be much wailing and gnashing of teeth on her part (she's 74). Just the thought of trying to get her to adapt to a Win 8 machine is enough to inspire dread. In all seriousness, that would never work.
 
2013-12-04 09:26:12 AM
o.k. I understand the smartphone, but who wants to be smearing their greasy bbq chip fingers all over their lap top or pc screen?
 
2013-12-04 09:26:44 AM
I'll probably get hate for this, but i gotta tell you, I actually like Windows 8 for the most part. now if I could get it to where hitting the windows button brought up the start screen and hitting the start menu on the taskbar brought me up the classic start menu, I'd love it.

Or, alternatively, a completely customizable UI...
 
2013-12-04 09:27:00 AM

The Crepes of Wrath: SecretAgentWoman: Businesses are extremely change shy, and 7 is WAY closer to XP than 8. Makes sense to me.

We just migrated to Win 7 from XP six months ago as well. Kicker is that I still have to keep my XP machine running because there are apps I use on a daily basis that won't run on the 64-bit version of Win 7.


We have custom monitoring software that runs on win 95 for some machines our factory operates. When the old pc died last month it was much cheaper and more reliable to go find an old computer that would run it than to upgrade and have to get new software created.
 
2013-12-04 09:27:20 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: smoky2010: Win7 is a really solid platform. Businesses won't migrate to Win8 because it sucks. It is an IT fact that every other OS from MS will be really sucky.

XP - great
Vista - sucks
Win7 - great
Win8 - sucks
Next version - great

This leaves out the good run they had going until Vista.

NT3.51 - good
NT4.0 - great
Win2000 - great


And the "next version", 8.1, is already out. All the work went into the sucky side of the OS, and the Start-button-that-isn't-a-Start-Menu was about all that "Windows" got. Anyone who thinks they are going to undo Metro in the next release - hell no.  They bet the company on Metro and they are busy drilling more holes below the waterline all the time.
 
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