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(RealClear)   Finally some good news for Detroit: You're eligible for the largest municipal bankruptcy in U.S. history   (realclear.com) divider line 151
    More: Fail, Judges' Rules, U.S., Detroit, restructuring plans, Municipal Employees, Detroit River, Detroit Institute of Arts, bankruptcy  
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3352 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Dec 2013 at 2:15 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-03 02:07:09 PM
How many Democrat run cities in bankruptcy does that make now?

/financial responsibility has a conservative bias
 
2013-12-03 02:17:26 PM

Smeggy Smurf: How many Democrat run cities in bankruptcy does that make now?

/financial responsibility has a conservative bias


Aren't most cities run by Democrats? Especially big ones.

//Bloomberg doesn't count.
 
2013-12-03 02:18:59 PM
NUMBER ONE! NUMBER ONE!
 
2013-12-03 02:21:14 PM
cdn.nextimpulsesports.com
 
2013-12-03 02:27:13 PM
The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.
 
2013-12-03 02:29:16 PM
Yeah does it suck for people on pensions? Of course. But how much more does zero city services and no exit plan suck for 600,000 people still living there and the drain on the still viable surrounding area? Suck it up and pay the piper for 50 years of mismanagement, corruption, union graft and incompetence. Failure to draw in alternative industries (like Pittsburgh & a lesser extent Cleveland) was a death knell for the city. Add white and now middle class black flight influenced by the racist-on-both-sides governments and it's a perfect storm of crap.
 
2013-12-03 02:29:33 PM
This bankruptcy resulted in people's decision to buy more reliable Japanese cars than unreliable American cars.
 
2013-12-03 02:31:03 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Yeah does it suck for people on pensions? Of course. But how much more does zero city services and no exit plan suck for 600,000 people still living there and the drain on the still viable surrounding area? Suck it up and pay the piper for 50 years of mismanagement, corruption, union graft and incompetence. Failure to draw in alternative industries (like Pittsburgh & a lesser extent Cleveland) was a death knell for the city. Add white and now middle class black flight influenced by the racist-on-both-sides governments and it's a perfect storm of crap.


You didn't hear the pensioners complain when the pension plans repeatedly and consistently OVERPAID their pensions.  And repeatedly lent out pension money for stupid or illegal loans.
 
2013-12-03 02:31:24 PM

Arkanaut: Smeggy Smurf: How many Democrat run cities in bankruptcy does that make now?

/financial responsibility has a conservative bias

Aren't most cities run by Democrats? Especially big ones.

//Bloomberg doesn't count.


It seems to go more conservative the lower the population, as is the trend in American politics.
Wiki
 
2013-12-03 02:31:46 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.




What the Fox says.
 
2013-12-03 02:33:14 PM
Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??
 
2013-12-03 02:35:03 PM

Smeggy Smurf: How many Democrat run cities in bankruptcy does that make now?

/financial responsibility has a conservative bias


Considering what Reagan and Bush did to the national debt, you may want to can that shiat.
 
2013-12-03 02:35:09 PM

Frizbone: This bankruptcy resulted in people's decision to buy more reliable Japanese cars than unreliable American cars.


pics4.city-data.com
Where more reliable Japanese cars come from.
 
2013-12-03 02:37:12 PM

sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??


In the case of Detroit, it appears to mean that they can eliminate retirees' pensions in order to pay off the cities debts.  So yeah, great news.
 
2013-12-03 02:38:59 PM

sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??


My understanding is that it means that all the pension for the government employees and all the debt the cities owes to banks can be renegotiated or permanently wiped off the books.  So if you have a pension, you can get screwed, if you are a private bank who loaned money to the city for things like construction you can get screwed.
 
2013-12-03 02:39:28 PM
Can't we sacrifice Charlie LeDuff for a couple grand of debt relief?
 
2013-12-03 02:39:48 PM
Isn't this how "Robocop 2" started?

Be on the lookout for OCP to swoop in and buy the city
 
2013-12-03 02:40:35 PM
This is what happens when you get the "Iron Rice Bowl" UAW.  Suck it up.
 
2013-12-03 02:42:41 PM

Smeggy Smurf: /financial responsibility has a conservative bias


Do you read anything not put out by Murdoch?

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-presidents-which-party-create-more-jobs-de mo cratic-or-republican-408508
 
2013-12-03 02:43:12 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.


All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.
 
2013-12-03 02:43:56 PM

Frizbone: This bankruptcy resulted in people's decision to buy more reliable Japanese cars than unreliable American cars.


1987 wants its joke back.
 
2013-12-03 02:44:01 PM

Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.


I think the lesson is this is what happens when you let one party stay in power too long.
 
2013-12-03 02:44:02 PM

sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??


In Detroit's case, it means that they get to put thousands of old people on ice floes and push them out into Lake Erie.
 
2013-12-03 02:44:55 PM
i43.tinypic.com
 
2013-12-03 02:47:35 PM

maliklockett: Isn't this how "Robocop 2" started?

Be on the lookout for OCP to swoop in and buy the city


I'm afraid Dave Sim's "High Society" will be a more accurate forecast.
 
2013-12-03 02:47:49 PM

meanmutton: Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.

All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.


Yup.  This is the lesson.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Exactly why there should never be lifetime politicians also.
 
2013-12-03 02:48:41 PM
What this means is there may be a limit to the largesse doled out by our elected officials to their friends in the municipal employee unions. At some point the gravy train will leave the station.

The line I loved: "It is impractical to negotiate with a stone wall."
 
2013-12-03 02:48:57 PM

reillan: Smeggy Smurf: /financial responsibility has a conservative bias

Do you read anything not put out by Murdoch?

http://www.ibtimes.com/us-presidents-which-party-create-more-jobs-de mo cratic-or-republican-408508


Wonder how many of those jobs are in the private sector?  (They say non farm jobs.)  Seems kind of silly to start with FDR considering that was war time/post war.  Guess before 1933 its not considered modern times.
 
2013-12-03 02:49:32 PM

Smeggy Smurf: How many Democrat run cities in bankruptcy does that make now?

/financial responsibility has a conservative bias


What about Orange County, CA?
 
2013-12-03 02:50:04 PM

sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??


When a person or entity files for bankruptcy protection, it means  a 'stay' is put in place, where their creditors can't pursue them for paymentfor a short period of time.  During that time, the court sorts out who the debtor owes money to, how much, and (the hard part) a plan is created to determine which creditors get how much payment out of the remaining assets of the debtor.  Creditors are divided into classes and the higher in priority your creditor type is, the more money you get.  Each level is usually paid in full before moving to the next.  For example, federal taxes are paid first, then with a company usually wage obligations (not pensions, it's the last two weeks or so of current wages), a few other random categories, then you go to secured creditors (like your mortgage, they hold interest in a property as collateral for the debt) and unsecured creditors (no collateral, get paid last if at all).

The special thing about Detroit's bankruptcy (and I think with any municipal
bankruptcy under Chapter 9 of the bankruptcy code), is that prior to allowing the bankruptcy filing to proceed, the court had to determine that Detroit truly didn't have enough money to pay its bills, that filing bankruptcy isn't a subterfuge to avoid paying creditors. That was the pension funds' argument, that Detroit really had money it could use to pay its bills, the city was using accounting tricks to make it look like its financial statements were worse than they were.  Problem for the pension funds was, Detroit truly is out of money. This was the legal point the court ruled on today.  So now, after probably a quick appeal that I would guess will get decided in the next 6-9 months, the bankruptcy case proceeds.
 
2013-12-03 02:50:15 PM
^--- 'Tis a bad 'shoop there...

moratorium-mi.org


/http://moratorium-mi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/StopSignStopDebt P ayment-205x300.jpg
 
2013-12-03 02:51:02 PM

AngryDragon: meanmutton: Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.

All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.

Yup.  This is the lesson.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Exactly why there should never be lifetime politicians also.


Along with agreeing to unfunded future liabilities... union bosses and politicians should be taken out and publicly flogged for negotiating these types of contracts.
 
2013-12-03 02:51:14 PM
Baltimore next?

/Mebbe Chicago.
 
2013-12-03 02:51:15 PM

Frizbone: This bankruptcy resulted in people's decision to buy more reliable Japanese cars than unreliable American cars.


Yes, it's a damn shame they don't assemble cars in The United States any more.  A damn shame.
 
2013-12-03 02:51:18 PM

j__z: sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??

My understanding is that it means that all the pension for the government employees and all the debt the cities owes to banks can be renegotiated or permanently wiped off the books.  So if you have a pension, you can get screwed, if you are a private bank who loaned money to the city for things like construction you can get screwed.


And if you are married and had such a pension, there will be no more screwing for the rest of your life.

The only thing left to do is join a monastic order and brew beer.
 
2013-12-03 02:53:36 PM

detroitdoesntsuckthatbad: Can't we sacrifice Charlie LeDuff for a couple grand of debt relief?


Great, now I'm picturing a high-stakes game of Magic: the Gathering.
 
2013-12-03 02:57:07 PM

Wendy's Chili: sure haven't: Can someone please explain what this means? I know it's a big deal... but exactly what does it mean when a city gets bankruptcy protection??

In Detroit's case, it means that they get to put thousands of old people on ice floes and push them out into Lake Erie.


Oh no! Don't do that. They'll float to Buffalo and we have enough stupid democrats in office.
 
2013-12-03 02:59:12 PM
Moving on from the 'Crime Capitol of America'?

Anything's an improvement in Detroit's case, even America's Biggest Bonfire (coming soon with any luck).
 
2013-12-03 03:01:08 PM
Ya! Politics is leaking again!
/fml
 
2013-12-03 03:01:29 PM
I was going to buy a Toyota Camry...but I don't like foreign cars so I bought a Chevy Aveo instead because I'm an American!!
 
2013-12-03 03:01:34 PM
Hey Detroit. Here's a nice cash offer. Buy up my credit card debt and I'll give you $100 - cash! All you gotta do is add my measly credit card debt to the Bankruptcy and 5 twenties will be yours.

Now, Detroit, I'm not saying there are a lot of other people like me out there, but if you want some hard currency, this could be an idea you might want to run with.
 
2013-12-03 03:01:41 PM
i1268.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-03 03:03:12 PM
Too bad Coleman's not around to see his handiwork.
 
2013-12-03 03:06:00 PM

AngryDragon: meanmutton: Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.

All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.

Yup.  This is the lesson.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.  Exactly why there should never be lifetime politicians also.


This has less to do with Detroit's city government, and more to do with our national trade policies. After WWII, the folks in Washington made lopsided deals with South Korea, Japan, and West Germany in order to prop up their economies and secure their alligience during the Cold War. This came at the expense of our manufacutring mecca, Detroit. There was never enough political pressure to change the policies even after the Cold War because by then the importers carried more clout than the unions.
 
2013-12-03 03:08:01 PM
generally speaking... debts with interest cannot be repaid, because the dollars equal to the amount of interest accrued do not exist in the system. Only the principle amount loaned exists in the system.

so, it doesn't matter who borrows (Dems/Repubs) or for why (school budgets/prisons)...
the money to repay the interest doesn't exist in the system. you can only borrow more money to pay the interest or.. default. those are the only two options in the near term.  and default is the only option in the long term.
 
2013-12-03 03:08:59 PM
Take that, Birmingham! Eat shiat, Orange County!
 
2013-12-03 03:11:17 PM
Democrats promise everyone the world to get elected, but have no idea what to do when the bills are due. It's actually hilarious to watch. By gosh it's our RIGHT to have EVERYTHING!  It's just like when little kids tell their parents to "JUST WRITE A CHECK" for whatever they may want after their parents explain to them that they cannot afford it. Republicans want the same nice stuff that libtards want, but they just happen to understand that you cannot have things that you cannot afford.  Amazingly simple concept that my young kids already know, but apparently its too complicated for Harvard educated Democrats to grasp.
 
2013-12-03 03:12:38 PM

meanmutton: Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.

All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.


Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with industry leaving the cities in droves.
It's all about political affiliation.
 
2013-12-03 03:15:35 PM

hermitage_deux: generally speaking... debts with interest cannot be repaid, because the dollars equal to the amount of interest accrued do not exist in the system. Only the principle amount loaned exists in the system.

so, it doesn't matter who borrows (Dems/Repubs) or for why (school budgets/prisons)...
the money to repay the interest doesn't exist in the system. you can only borrow more money to pay the interest or.. default. those are the only two options in the near term.  and default is the only option in the long term.


Perhaps you could explain this?  When I account for my personal loans, I include interest in my "system", and my bank includes interest in their system.  And if you're talking about actual dollars, then in bankruptcy, no money exists in the system.  It doesn't matter if it's interest or principal.

I'm missing something...
 
2013-12-03 03:21:23 PM

Begoggle: meanmutton: Pants full of macaroni!!: The lesson is clear: democrats must NEVER AGAIN be allowed to hold ANY public office in the United States.

All kidding aside, the lesson that really should be clear -- any time you have a single party running government for a long period of time without a legitimate challenge, shiat gets farked up.

Yeah, I'm sure it has nothing to do with industry leaving the cities in droves.
It's all about political affiliation.


This.
 
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