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(MSNBC)   Gov. LePage (Olive-R twisted enough to vote for this asshole, Maine) decides to bring child labor back, complains that ban on slavery is hindering state's unemployment rate   (msnbc.com) divider line 227
    More: Sick, Gov. LePage, working age, Department of Labor, child labour  
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4198 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2013 at 2:19 PM (41 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-03 04:19:01 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Haymarket Affair and Minneapolis in the 1930s - All feel good movements

Yep. Was the 40 hour work week commonplace following the Haymarket affair? No? Huh. Wonder what it took to codify that.


More direct action via organizing at the workplace, obviously.  I'm glad you had no other retort to the rest of my comment and I take your silence as agreement.
 
2013-12-03 04:19:27 PM
I love how the traditional crop of leftists are equating making it legal for 12-16 year olds to work to slave labor (where they would be forced to work).
Rubberized goalposts are going to be needed for the rest of this thread.
 
2013-12-03 04:20:14 PM

GoldSpider: cameroncrazy1984: GoldSpider: cameroncrazy1984: GoldSpider: He's also not talking about forcing kids to work 70-hour work-weeks.

Not saying I agree with him, but the hyperbole doesn't help the case against this idea.

What hyperbole? Is he talking about legislation that would limit overtime for children?

What jobs are you aware of that force anyone under age 18 to work overtime?

I don't know, you tell me. I would assume we're talking about full-time jobs. Do you know any full-time jobs that do not offer overtime?

I don't know of any full-time jobs that hire children.


That's because  it's illegal
 
2013-12-03 04:21:03 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Haymarket Affair and Minneapolis in the 1930s - All feel good movements

Yep. Was the 40 hour work week commonplace following the Haymarket affair? No? Huh. Wonder what it took to codify that.

More direct action via organizing at the workplace, obviously.  I'm glad you had no other retort to the rest of my comment and I take your silence as agreement.


Really. All this direct action passed laws? Funny, I thought it took electing Congressmen and Senators, proposing, writing and passing legislation that made it legal.
 
2013-12-03 04:21:30 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Peki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R), who championed a measure in March 2011 that would not only allow kids as young as 12 to get jobs, but would also allow employers to pay children less than the minimum wage.

OK, US - you do know that the rest of the world is noticing that, while you're the richest nation on earth, you're also working hard to be the most socially backward, right?  And you're working hard to create a State where the haves are filthy rich while the have-nots are slaves, with no real middle class.  Right?  You do see that.  Right?

Yes.

Any chance I could marry you to get a green card to Canada?

/Bonus: I qualify for perm residency on my own anyway. I got my BA in Canada. I'm half Canadian already!
//would seriously consider it if she wasn't with a fiance who really does treat her like a queen

I don't even have my green card yet.  I am a guest of the State.  And they still treat me better than my home country.


LOL. I believe it. Guest of the State is an interesting phrase though. Care to elaborate?

/miss Edmonton so much I can smell it sometimes
 
2013-12-03 04:22:58 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Wouldn't they argue we should all wait for the market to sort it out?


No - because the market cannot hear cases when an individual or their property has been harmed and a mediator with authority has to hear it out.  You're confusing libertarians with anarchists.
 
2013-12-03 04:23:20 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Haymarket Affair and Minneapolis in the 1930s - All feel good movements

Yep. Was the 40 hour work week commonplace following the Haymarket affair? No? Huh. Wonder what it took to codify that.

More direct action via organizing at the workplace, obviously.  I'm glad you had no other retort to the rest of my comment and I take your silence as agreement.

Really. All this direct action passed laws? Funny, I thought it took electing Congressmen and Senators, proposing, writing and passing legislation that made it legal.


Obviously these laws mean shiat when they are not enforced, which happens more often than not.  The boss doesn't have to play by the rules. The workers damn well don't have to.
 
2013-12-03 04:24:58 PM

FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Haymarket Affair and Minneapolis in the 1930s - All feel good movements

Yep. Was the 40 hour work week commonplace following the Haymarket affair? No? Huh. Wonder what it took to codify that.

More direct action via organizing at the workplace, obviously.  I'm glad you had no other retort to the rest of my comment and I take your silence as agreement.

Really. All this direct action passed laws? Funny, I thought it took electing Congressmen and Senators, proposing, writing and passing legislation that made it legal.

Obviously these laws mean shiat when they are not enforced, which happens more often than not.  The boss doesn't have to play by the rules. The workers damn well don't have to.


While things are getting worse I think you got a ways to go until it gets back to the point where people get violent.
 
2013-12-03 04:25:35 PM
So will this apply to brothels?


//...wait.. I'll be back, someone is knocking on my door........
 
2013-12-03 04:26:01 PM

o5iiawah: I love how the traditional crop of leftists are equating making it legal for 12-16 year olds to work to slave labor (where they would be forced to work).
Rubberized goalposts are going to be needed for the rest of this thread.


Really? You don't think half of this country's children would immediately be pulled out of school if it were legal for them to work full-time instead?

You've got no idea the pull and effect family concerns can have on a child. A child would be the first one to sign up for a job if they thought it would help their famWe made a choice a long time ago that school is more important so we can raise an educated society. If you support this, then don't complain in 40 years when everyone is Idiocracy stupid because their parents decided making a buck was more important than learning that water feeds plants, not Brawndo.
 
2013-12-03 04:26:37 PM

Headso: While things are getting worse I think you got a ways to go until it gets back to the point where people get violent.


Make no mistake about it.  The people don't get violent when they organized.  They are always suppressed by state at the behest of the the owner of a company.  Any violence on the part of workers is always self defense.
 
2013-12-03 04:26:38 PM

GoldSpider: cameroncrazy1984: GoldSpider: cameroncrazy1984: GoldSpider: He's also not talking about forcing kids to work 70-hour work-weeks.

Not saying I agree with him, but the hyperbole doesn't help the case against this idea.

What hyperbole? Is he talking about legislation that would limit overtime for children?

What jobs are you aware of that force anyone under age 18 to work overtime?

I don't know, you tell me. I would assume we're talking about full-time jobs. Do you know any full-time jobs that do not offer overtime?

I don't know of any full-time jobs that hire children.


Porn
 
2013-12-03 04:27:05 PM

HotWingConspiracy: Why is it you're ok with 12 year olds entering the work force at a slave wage?


I'm ok with people making money for their effort.  At 12 I was a paper carrier.  At 12 my daughter was a chambermaid at a bed and breakfast in the neighborhood.  At 12 my sons were helping mow lawns.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't see anything wrong with that.   But it's all presumptively illegal in Maine.

Was it a slave wage because my 12-year-old daughter couldn't afford an apartment, health care, food, and birth control?  Give me a break.

Look, you're going to get your basic wish:  all too many of our kids will grow up to be utterly dependent on the government.  Can't you let some of them have a shot at a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency?  Or does that offend your delicate sensibilities too much?
 
2013-12-03 04:27:55 PM

cameroncrazy1984: That's because  it's illegal


Even if that were true (kids can work full-time during summers) what business do you think will A. hire a kid full-time and have to pay benefits, and B. be willing to pay them time and a half for overtime??
 
2013-12-03 04:29:22 PM
Garet Garrett: Can't you let some of them have a shot at a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency?

media.salon.com
 
2013-12-03 04:29:27 PM

mrlewish: So will this apply to brothels?


//...wait.. I'll be back, someone is knocking on my door........


Kind of...

Child porn victim seeking $3.4M from the thousands of 'sick' men who have viewed pictures of her abuse

Next month, the Supreme Court will consider what the men who took pleasure from viewing Amy's abuse must pay her.
 
2013-12-03 04:29:28 PM

Garet Garrett: Look, you're going to get your basic wish:  all too many of our kids will grow up to be utterly dependent on the government.  Can't you let some of them have a shot at a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency?  Or does that offend your delicate sensibilities too much?


Forget it, man, you're dealing with people whose parents paid them a weekly allowance for the privilege of calling them their kid.
 
2013-12-03 04:32:47 PM

GoldSpider: Garet Garrett: Look, you're going to get your basic wish:  all too many of our kids will grow up to be utterly dependent on the government.  Can't you let some of them have a shot at a reasonable degree of self-sufficiency?  Or does that offend your delicate sensibilities too much?

Forget it, man, you're dealing with people whose parents paid them a weekly allowance for the privilege of calling them their kid.


yeah he's the reasonable one, using infrastructure built by the government to whine about all our kids being dependent on the government.
 
2013-12-03 04:33:22 PM

o5iiawah: I love how the traditional crop of leftists are equating making it legal for 12-16 year olds to work to slave labor (where they would be forced to work).
Rubberized goalposts are going to be needed for the rest of this thread.


I have news for you.

In a second gilded age, you would be a poor share cropper looking for work. Your masters will not save you.
 
2013-12-03 04:36:27 PM

Smidge204: The typical Republican stance on public education is perfectly in line with their overall mentality of returning to a romanticized/fictional version of a 17th century society.


Actually, the typical republican stance on education is that parents should be able to decide where their child goes to school based on the school's ability to meet the needs of the child.

The typical progressive argument for education is to maintain what we have been doing for another 150 years and who see quality control as paying more to those who administer it.  Kids to go schools not based on their propensities to learn or the school's ability to teach but on where they live in a bus route.  I hate to break it to you, but every dollar into the NEA gets you more of what you just sneered at as ineffectual, outdated and inflexible.

HotWingConspiracy: Why is it you're ok with 12 year olds entering the work force at a slave wage?


define a "slave wage"

FarkedOver: all things that were fought hard for by leftist activists.


No they werent.  The 8 hour day/40 hour week was put into place by Henry Ford for his non-UAW workers.

Fart_Machine: Yup academics and music lessons bad. Menial labor for lower wages good. You're a genius.


Likewise, nobody learns anything at their first job, or acquires skills.  You're argumentative for the sake of it and you only sound stupid in doing so.
 
2013-12-03 04:37:29 PM
Here's a revolutionary idea.  Children remain in school until 18.  Here's another revolutionary idea; instead of the 8 hour work day we have a 6 hour work day (with no detrimental change in pay)? It's the 21st century..... we fought for the 8 hour work day in the 19th century..... technology has come a long way to help ease the burden of all workers to shorten the work day and without having to have children enter the work force.
 
2013-12-03 04:38:38 PM

o5iiawah: No they werent. The 8 hour day/40 hour week was put into place by Henry Ford for his non-UAW workers.


Go read up on the IWW, chief.  The struggle started long before Nazi Ford started producing Model Ts
 
2013-12-03 04:38:42 PM
Hmm, letting 12-14 year olds having something like weekend jobs as grocery store baggers at a lower than normal wage (provided the unions let them) sounds like a nifty way for kids to get some spending money.

Money they'll spend on drugs and ATHEISM!

Chew on that one, conservatives.
 
2013-12-03 04:41:53 PM

Peki: Really? You don't think half of this country's children would immediately be pulled out of school if it were legal for them to work full-time instead?


TFA mentions 10 hrs/wk for 12-14 year olds and 15 hrs/wk for 14-16 year olds.  Where are you getting that 12 year olds are being pulled out of school to work full-time?

Like I was saying about the goalposts...

Obama's Reptiloid Master: In a second gilded age, you would be a poor share cropper looking for work. Your masters will not save you.


How did this enter your head as making any sense whatsoever?
 
2013-12-03 04:43:38 PM

FarkedOver: o5iiawah: No they werent. The 8 hour day/40 hour week was put into place by Henry Ford for his non-UAW workers.

Go read up on the IWW, chief.  The struggle started long before Nazi Ford started producing Model Ts


Ford was no more a Nazi then your buddy Woodrow Wilson - and the struggle continues today because the UAW cant seem to get a contract for its workers which paid as much as Ford paid his.
 
2013-12-03 04:45:52 PM

o5iiawah: TFA mentions 10 hrs/wk for 12-14 year olds and 15 hrs/wk for 14-16 year olds.  Where are you getting that 12 year olds are being pulled out of school to work full-time?Like I was saying about the goalposts...


The full-time was from elsewhere in the thread, not you specifically. My point stands. How many people do you think would pull their kids out of school if they could to help pay the bills?

I'm thinking that so long as the number is non-zero, we need laws to keep kids in school. Otherwise people are too quick to sacrifice long-term gains for short-term profit.
 
2013-12-03 04:46:00 PM

o5iiawah: Ford was no more a Nazi


You may want to read up on your anti-Semite pal Ford.  He was pretty bad.  Woodrow Wilson was no buddy of mine.  He had thousands arrested illegally for speaking out against WW1 and its imperialist nature.

And as to the rest of your post, um ok.
 
2013-12-03 04:46:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: cameroncrazy1984: FarkedOver: Haymarket Affair and Minneapolis in the 1930s - All feel good movements

Yep. Was the 40 hour work week commonplace following the Haymarket affair? No? Huh. Wonder what it took to codify that.

More direct action via organizing at the workplace, obviously.  I'm glad you had no other retort to the rest of my comment and I take your silence as agreement.

Really. All this direct action passed laws? Funny, I thought it took electing Congressmen and Senators, proposing, writing and passing legislation that made it legal.


Martyrs.

It took having enough people know other people that got shot, beaten up, or killed, just because they wanted some more rights on the job to force their congressmen and Senators to also fight for those rights.
 
2013-12-03 04:47:34 PM

o5iiawah: Actually, the typical republican stance on education is that parents should be able to decide where their child goes to school based on the school's ability to meet the needs of the child.


Actually, the typical republican stance is to take money that was supposed to go into public schools and send their kids to for profit charter schools where only the best and brightest are accepted. This in turn offsets the scales and makes the the charter school look far better then the public school since only ideal students attend. In fact in most cases the charter schools under perform or at best match most public schools on every metric. To which republicans respond by removing any examination of those charter schools that would establish a metric of comparison. Essentially, lowering the tide and sinking all the boats. The money would have been better spent finding a solution to our failing public education rather than making a few feel like nobles and sending their kids to "private" schools that neither match real private schools in either prestige or cost.

No they werent.  The 8 hour day/40 hour week was put into place by Henry Ford for his non-UAW workers.

Seriously???? Yes, Ford did establish a 40hr work week. But his operation was a tiny, tiny fraction of the work force. It was FDR, Justice Black, before he was a Justice and Congress expanding the New Deal that pushed for it nationally, establish 40hr plus overtime pay for greater than 40hrs for MOST jobs.
 
2013-12-03 04:47:40 PM
o5iiawah: The 8 hour day/40 hour week was put into place by Henry Ford for his non-UAW workers.

Dude, you's trollin'
 
2013-12-03 04:51:04 PM

physt: Triple Oak: Employ all the kids you want, Maine, you're practically far enough away to be Canada and very little benefits are being seen from your state anyway. What's the major export, lobster?


King is now a snowbird. Lives half the year in Fl.
 
2013-12-03 04:55:09 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R), who championed a measure in March 2011 that would not only allow kids as young as 12 to get jobs, but would also allow employers to pay children less than the minimum wage.

OK, US - you do know that the rest of the world is noticing that, while you're the richest nation on earth, you're also working hard to be the most socially backward, right?  And you're working hard to create a State where the haves are filthy rich while the have-nots are slaves, with no real middle class.  Right?  You do see that.  Right?


The irony is all this "freedom" is mostly being done in the name of making the US into China.
 
2013-12-03 04:55:43 PM
Garet Garret, your new name is coontcoont. so people know where to kick kick you.
 
2013-12-03 04:59:58 PM
So, we'd have 100% employment if we didnt have to pay all those people!
 
2013-12-03 05:01:57 PM

Tigger: Benevolent Misanthrope: Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R), who championed a measure in March 2011 that would not only allow kids as young as 12 to get jobs, but would also allow employers to pay children less than the minimum wage.

OK, US - you do know that the rest of the world is noticing that, while you're the richest nation on earth, you're also working hard to be the most socially backward, right?  And you're working hard to create a State where the haves are filthy rich while the have-nots are slaves, with no real middle class.  Right?  You do see that.  Right?

This sounds a lot like socialism and unfreedoms to me.


Double-plus ungood.
 
2013-12-03 05:02:18 PM

Peki: How many people do you think would pull their kids out of school if they could to help pay the bills?


TFA also mentions that lowering the work age simply lowers the age at which a young person can apply for a work permit - a permit that has to be reviewed by someone at the state.  Ergo, there isn't anyone pulling their 12 year old out of public school and tossing them into a salt mine.    Besides, it is illegal just about everywhere for kids under 16 not to be in school and a full-time job would preclude them from this.

What is being suggested by Maine (work permits issued to people as young as 12 (with parental consent) to work small amounts of time per week, is not this doomsday scenario where parents are yanking their kids out of school and sending them off to factories and stockyards.  You're projecting this slope which doesn't exist and has little to do with what is being proposed.

Just stop it already.


SuperTramp: Dude, you's trollin'


Ok, so tell me where I'm wrong then.  Enough with the "Trollin" bullshiat when you read a fact you cant handle.

Chewb1zz: Actually, the typical republican stance is to take money that was supposed to go into public schools


wait, I just got told the public schools are antiquated relics that are failing miserably....

Chewb1zz: and send their kids to for profit charter schools where only the best and brightest are accepted.


Not true, most charter schools accept students by lottery.  They are traditionally more diverse economically and ethnically then public schools which base their student body on geography, often showing a sharp divide between affluent suburb and inner city.  I'm excited to read the rest of your moronic rant already...

Chewb1zz: In fact in most cases the charter schools under perform or at best match most public schools on every metric


Also not true.  Some charter schools do fail and parents then have the choice to remove their kids from them.  In regards to public schools that fail, parents have no choice at all.  I think you'd prefer the latter though - where a student's destiny is determined by where they live in a bus route.

Chewb1zz: To which republicans respond by removing any examination of those charter schools that would establish a metric of comparison


traditional "Republican" plans involve a basic pay package for teachers with merit increases.  This is the exact thing the NEA opposes and yet somehow you have it in your mind that school choice advocates want to remove testing.

Chewb1zz: The money would have been better spent finding a solution to our failing public education


 We did it your way for 200 years and now China and India produce 13 year olds that can get into our best engineering Universities.

Chewb1zz: Yes, Ford did establish a 40hr work week.


Which was my original point.
 
2013-12-03 05:07:47 PM
How about enforcing a 40 hour work week across the board? I know people like Goldman Sachs and the white shoe law firms would cry like spoiled brats, but seriously, having people worked 60 hours a week without overtime, is just not a good thing.
 
2013-12-03 05:08:15 PM

GoldSpider: cameroncrazy1984: That's because  it's illegal

Even if that were true (kids can work full-time during summers) what business do you think will A. hire a kid full-time and have to pay benefits, and B. be willing to pay them time and a half for overtime??



I think you are getting a bit carried away with the fulltime issue.  Governor LePage actually recommended time limits for each age group that started round 12hrs a week.


Before you go painting dark pictures of children toiling away in the mines, let's start focusing more on reality.

I spent my teen years in Maine before the age limits were set in place.  We were not wealthy, and as a kid, I was always needing money.  For the most part, I was pretty creative about coming up with money making schemes:  door to door offers of lawn mowing and general grounds maintenance, selling candy and drinks at sporting events, shoveling driveways in the winter.  At times when the weather wasn't warm enough to sell cold drinks, or snow was out of season, I could always rely on some of the standby's that kids under 16 are currently banned from: news paper delivery, stuffing ads in the newspapers, sweeping parking lots.  Central Maine has a thriving agricultural economy.  If a kid under the age of 16 were up to it, there was apple picking late summer, cleaning out horse stalls and chicken sheds, or general labor during the planting and harvesting season.  There were unlimited tourist hospitality positions along the coast; carnival help, auction and flea market runners were always needed, or working at hotels and golf courses.  Even for a boy as young as twelve there were numerous choices that did not tax the brain or body too badly, gave a kid the opportunity to put aside some spending money, and usually got him in with a great group of kids that often grew into friendships.  Compared to shoveling driveways and apartment rooftops, or carrying bricks at a construction site while overseas in Teheran, working in Maine was a breeze.  Maybe the snow and horse shiat shoveling was pretty tough on a kid but these jobs didn't usually last all that long and the payout was usually pretty good.

To be honest, my most loathsome and brain melting mainstream job I performed was working at McDonalds for 6 weeks when I was 15.  Too many rules, too little respect, and not a lot to show for it.

Sadly, unless you are 15 or older, most of these opportunities are lost
 
2013-12-03 05:12:07 PM
WTF, Maine? You voted for this guy? I used to think you were cool.
 
2013-12-03 05:15:05 PM
I am pleasantly surprised with fark for once. I half expected that this thread would be dominated by the Fark IndependentTM Pearl Clutching Squad complaining about the sarcastic quip about slavery.
 
2013-12-03 05:15:25 PM

Marcus Aurelius: Benevolent Misanthrope: Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R), who championed a measure in March 2011 that would not only allow kids as young as 12 to get jobs, but would also allow employers to pay children less than the minimum wage.

OK, US - you do know that the rest of the world is noticing that, while you're the richest nation on earth, you're also working hard to be the most socially backward, right?  And you're working hard to create a State where the haves are filthy rich while the have-nots are slaves, with no real middle class.  Right?  You do see that.  Right?

I've been seeing it since Reagan took office.  Something will have to give eventually.  Unfortunately it will probably be really ugly when it happens.


Yup, this trend started with Reagan and his "voodoo economics" and his election empowered the regressive reactionaries to an absurd degree to the point we are at now. It's going to be ugly when the pendulum swings back to the progressives, but I hope it happens soon. The illusion of "freedom and liberty" that these "conservatives" are throwing up over their policies is going to disappear, and I can't wait for that to happen.
 
2013-12-03 05:16:16 PM

o5iiawah: What is being suggested by Maine (work permits issued to people as young as 12 (with parental consent) to work small amounts of time per week, is not this doomsday scenario where parents are yanking their kids out of school and sending them off to factories and stockyards.  You're projecting this slope which doesn't exist and has little to do with what is being proposed.


Sure. Because I didn't see at least half a dozen kids drop out of high school to take several part time jobs to support their families. Because I didn't experience poverty as a kid, and know how easy it would be to get a kid to agree to work for his family if he thinks they are in danger (the whole stranger needs help with fluffy? Times that by about a thousand). Because I didn't get a work permit myself as a kid, and get subjected to all sorts of under-the-table nastiness (up to and including unsafe business practices that resulted in injuries to myself and another worker) and pressure because it's just a law that doesn't matter if it's not enforced.

No. This is wrongheaded, and we need to cut this off at the pass. We ought to be going the other direction, making it as easy for kids to stay in school as long as they want. The whole association of earning an income with being a good person is ridiculous and we need to stop it. Earning money does not build character; it simply shows you how to manipulate the world.
 
2013-12-03 05:20:20 PM

o5iiawah: hat is being suggested by Maine (work permits issued to people as young as 12 (with parental consent) to work small amounts of time per week, is not this doomsday scenario where parents are yanking their kids out of school and sending them off to factories and stockyards.  You're projecting this slope which doesn't exist and has little to do with what is being proposed.


How is this supposed to help with the unemployment problem?
 
2013-12-03 05:20:37 PM

Peki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Peki: Benevolent Misanthrope: Maine Gov. Paul LePage (R), who championed a measure in March 2011 that would not only allow kids as young as 12 to get jobs, but would also allow employers to pay children less than the minimum wage.

OK, US - you do know that the rest of the world is noticing that, while you're the richest nation on earth, you're also working hard to be the most socially backward, right?  And you're working hard to create a State where the haves are filthy rich while the have-nots are slaves, with no real middle class.  Right?  You do see that.  Right?

Yes.

Any chance I could marry you to get a green card to Canada?

/Bonus: I qualify for perm residency on my own anyway. I got my BA in Canada. I'm half Canadian already!
//would seriously consider it if she wasn't with a fiance who really does treat her like a queen

I don't even have my green card yet.  I am a guest of the State.  And they still treat me better than my home country.

LOL. I believe it. Guest of the State is an interesting phrase though. Care to elaborate?

/miss Edmonton so much I can smell it sometimes


I'm officially classified as a Guest Worker.  My work permit was for 2 years, and I'll have to keep re-upping it until/unless I get permanent residence in Canada.  I pay for and get health care and all the other amenities (3 pensions, for example), but I can't vote until I'm a citizen.
 
2013-12-03 05:26:20 PM

FarkedOver: I hate this country so hard.


II don't hate the country; I hate the people that biatch and moan about "X" candidate/politician after they had a chance to snuff them out in a vote and didn't show up to do so.
 
2013-12-03 05:28:08 PM
It's already perfectly legal to enslave kids.

They just kinda technically have to be your own.
 
2013-12-03 05:29:40 PM

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm officially classified as a Guest Worker.  My work permit was for 2 years, and I'll have to keep re-upping it until/unless I get permanent residence in Canada.  I pay for and get health care and all the other amenities (3 pensions, for example), but I can't vote until I'm a citizen.


Ah okay. We would probably apply as Skilled Worker class for perm residency unless we got a job offer first. I have the points because of getting my education there and being bilingual French, but the fiance's career is music, so unless I can convince him to pursue his graduate studies at the U of A, we're stuck in Los Angeles (can't blame him; it's where his industry is).
 
2013-12-03 05:40:37 PM

Peki: Because I didn't see at least half a dozen kids drop out of high school to take several part time jobs to support their families


This is allowed in most places at 16, when kids can emancipate themselves from school.  Maine isn't suggesting lowering the emancipation age from 16 to 12.

This is the third time you've put forth the: "If we allow X then surely Y is right around the corner!" argument.

Peki: The whole association of earning an income with being a good person is ridiculous and we need to stop it. Earning money does not build character;


Actually this has more to do with developing job skills and workplace relationships than it has to do with the $50 or so per week that hypothetical kid is likely to pull in.  This whole "We need to do XYZ" is stupid.  If you want your kids to stay in school forever and learn about how the world is stacked against them, knock yourself out.  Allow parents who think that their 14-15 year olds should be developing job skills do so.

I did not grow up in any set of affluent circumstances either but I am thankful that there were opportunities for me at 15 to work so that I could gain a little independence, save up for a 50cc scooter, go on a few school field trips and avoid those all-too-awkward back to school shopping experiences with my parents.

cameroncrazy1984: How is this supposed to help with the unemployment problem?


a 14 year old part-time worker can be hired in for less than minimum wage and a business owner may be willing to pay this, versus the current minimum wage.  Often these jobs are just things like stocking, breaking down boxes, sweeping floors, inventory.

When the 14 year old enters the real economy at 18-21, (s)he already has a few years of work experience and can command a higher wage from employers.  When we create a barrier to employment, everyone enters the workforce between 16-18 with the same level of skills - zero.

I worked at a bookstore in high school doing data entry, shelving, cleaning, basic retail, etc.  I did the same thing in college at a textbook store only there I was able to negotiate a better starting rate than the pennies over minimum they paid college kids because i already knew the inventory systems they used and had a good understanding of how the industry worked.  It was worth it to them to pay me the extra buck an hour because I didn't require any training, could train others and provided them value at the onset of my employment.  the "slave wage" job I had at 15 afforded me more wages and a leadership position in my next job at 18

This is kind of how employment works, actually.
 
2013-12-03 06:09:33 PM

Peki: o5iiawah: What is being suggested by Maine (work permits issued to people as young as 12 (with parental consent) to work small amounts of time per week, is not this doomsday scenario where parents are yanking their kids out of school and sending them off to factories and stockyards.  You're projecting this slope which doesn't exist and has little to do with what is being proposed.

Sure. Because I didn't see at least half a dozen kids drop out of high school to take several part time jobs to support their families. Because I didn't experience poverty as a kid, and know how easy it would be to get a kid to agree to work for his family if he thinks they are in danger (the whole stranger needs help with fluffy? Times that by about a thousand). Because I didn't get a work permit myself as a kid, and get subjected to all sorts of under-the-table nastiness (up to and including unsafe business practices that resulted in injuries to myself and another worker) and pressure because it's just a law that doesn't matter if it's not enforced.

No. This is wrongheaded, and we need to cut this off at the pass. We ought to be going the other direction, making it as easy for kids to stay in school as long as they want. The whole association of earning an income with being a good person is ridiculous and we need to stop it. Earning money does not build character; it simply shows you how to manipulate the world.



Started working at a fairly young age.  My brainwashing toward my eventual manipulative self started at around 8 when I received an allowance for general responsibilities;  keeping my room clean, taking out the garbage, help push the lawn mower in the summer, rake in the fall and shovel the entry to the driveway in the winter when it snowed.  If we wanted to make a little extra money, we could shovel all of the driveway, weeding in the garden, or do our own laundry.

By 12, I found myself in Teheran with my brother and mom.  At .15 a piece, I ran the bottles game for 2 years in school, racing out of my classes to pick up the coke bottles left behind by the affluent kids then cache them in lockers during the day; cash them that evening before going home.  Pretty good haul at roughly 5-7 dollars a day!  My greed and desire for world domination- and my first five speed Raleigh--  was just too great to be sated with a fiver once a week that I had been still getting at home so I expanded selling cold drinks, barbecued ears of corn, and American made stuff (clothing, pencils, odds and ends we brought with us but outgrew) at a nearby park.  In the winters, my brother and self took cue from our hosts and shoveled apartment roofs.  Did some time carrying bricks for our landlord, worked in a family run business manufacturing shoe fittings that kept one from falling on the ice.

Now hardened in the sweatshops of Iran, I came back to the United States undefeatable ready to take my place amongst the industrial giants: paperboy, newspaper ad stuffer, a humbling stint at McDonalds, babysitter and kid watcher, and finally honed down through an endless series of dishwashing gigs only to reinvent myself as the malevolent, manipulative bastard that I have become today.
 
2013-12-03 06:11:27 PM
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