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(Some War Criminal)   Allen West takes a shot at writing his own Fark headline: "I am one who steers very clear of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. I often believe progressives plant stories in order to distract and disrupt." Not bad   (allenbwest.com) divider line 76
    More: Asinine  
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838 clicks; posted to Politics » on 03 Dec 2013 at 10:15 AM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-03 09:18:45 AM
"What a war criminal would say for $800 Alex."
 
2013-12-03 09:19:29 AM
Well, you know what they say. When you point a finger, three more are pointing back at a war criminal.
 
2013-12-03 09:19:54 AM
Batman is a war criminal?
 
2013-12-03 09:28:33 AM
oi44.tinypic.com
 
2013-12-03 09:31:56 AM
So...no lead means no bullets?

Bullets cannot be made without lead?

You learn something new...
 
2013-12-03 09:35:21 AM
It seems that Mr. West has had a bit too much exposure to lead, if you know what I mean.
 
2013-12-03 09:37:18 AM

dittybopper: Batman is a war criminal?


Obama is the Batman.  West is this guy:

www.imfdb.org
 
2013-12-03 09:42:40 AM

Diogenes: It seems that Mr. West has had a bit too much exposure to lead, if you know what I mean.


Some may say not enough.
 
2013-12-03 09:43:54 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Diogenes: It seems that Mr. West has had a bit too much exposure to lead, if you know what I mean.

Some may say not enough.


Ah!  Touche.
 
2013-12-03 09:51:02 AM

2wolves: "What a war criminal would say for $800 Alex."


i.imgur.com
 
2013-12-03 09:52:10 AM

I_Am_Weasel: So...no lead means no bullets?

Bullets cannot be made without lead?

You learn something new...


They *CAN* be, but by a quirk of the law, any bullet capable of being used in a handgun (which includes most rifle bullets also) that isn't actually mostly lead is banned as "armor piercing":

(B) The term "armor piercing ammunition" means-

(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term "armor piercing ammunition" does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Attorney General finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.


There are some bullets that are solid copper and that meet the "sporting purposes" tests, but they are mainly rifle bullets for use against large, dangerous game like Cape Buffalo.  Also, "frangible" rounds aren't suitable for most hunting and self-defense uses either.

Banning lead in most ammunition is going to cause a major compliance issue unless that ban is either repealed or re-written.

For example, the phrasing "a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun" in B(i) could be changed to "a projectile or projectile core which which is primarily designed to be used in a handgun" , but even then there are difficulties:  Some ammunition, for example the .44 Magnum, are used in both handguns *AND* in traditional lever-action deer rifles.

Also, it would completely screw me over if it didn't include an exception for muzzleloading:  I have to use dead-soft lead for bullets in my flintlock, or the gun just won't shoot accurately.  The lead obturates and grabs the rifling through the patch because it's soft.  A hard, non-deformable bullet won't do that.
 
2013-12-03 09:52:39 AM
Of course the canned progressive socialist response is "For years families with children near Doe Run's facilities have been exposed to unacceptable levels of lead, one of the most dangerous neurotoxins in the environment," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Compliance and Enforcement Assurance.

And then he addresses this not one bit.  He just throws this line in there and then ignores it completely.
 
2013-12-03 09:57:50 AM

mrshowrules: dittybopper: Batman is a war criminal?

Obama is the Batman.  West is this guy:

[www.imfdb.org image 500x281]


No, that's noted actor John "Moldering" Brown.

You're thinking of Clavius Occidens, noted gay Roman war criminal.
 
2013-12-03 09:58:03 AM

Relatively Obscure: Of course the canned progressive socialist response is "For years families with children near Doe Run's facilities have been exposed to unacceptable levels of lead, one of the most dangerous neurotoxins in the environment," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Compliance and Enforcement Assurance.

And then he addresses this not one bit. He just throws this line in there and then ignores it completely.


We should return to the lead standard, like mighty Rome before us.
 
2013-12-03 10:06:13 AM
"President Obama and his EPA raised the regulations by 10 fold and it would have cost the plant $100 million to comply."

Having an internet connection, I discovered the  EPA made these changes in 2008. Apparently Obama is still playing with his magical time machine trying to make Republicans look bad.

/you can look it up
 
2013-12-03 10:07:44 AM

kronicfeld: Relatively Obscure: Of course the canned progressive socialist response is "For years families with children near Doe Run's facilities have been exposed to unacceptable levels of lead, one of the most dangerous neurotoxins in the environment," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Compliance and Enforcement Assurance.

And then he addresses this not one bit. He just throws this line in there and then ignores it completely.

We should return to the lead standard, like mighty Rome before us.


Well, technically, the Roman Republic lasted at least 465 years, from it's founding in 509 BC to the crowning of Julius Caesar in 44 BC, and that's about double what our republic has managed so far.

Eventually, the republic that is the United States will fall.  I just hope it lasts as long as the Roman Republic lasted.
 
2013-12-03 10:08:15 AM

edmo: "President Obama and his EPA raised the regulations by 10 fold and it would have cost the plant $100 million to comply."

Having an internet connection, I discovered the  EPA made these changes in 2008. Apparently Obama is still playing with his magical time machine trying to make Republicans look bad.

/you can look it up


Obama controls the internet via the NSA.  You're not fooling me!
 
2013-12-03 10:19:13 AM
Maybe he needs to figure out a way to make bullets out of tinfoil. Then, he'll never run out.
 
2013-12-03 10:20:37 AM
I read that in his voice:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2013-12-03 10:22:40 AM

Relatively Obscure: Of course the canned progressive socialist response is "For years families with children near Doe Run's facilities have been exposed to unacceptable levels of lead, one of the most dangerous neurotoxins in the environment," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Compliance and Enforcement Assurance.

And then he addresses this not one bit.  He just throws this line in there and then ignores it completely.


I came to post the exact same thing.  He puts that in there as if he is about to refute it, but never does.  You expect him to at least say something like "But recent tests in the area have proved inconclusive" or something, but he never does. I'm led to conclude that lead levels really were unacceptable.  Irrefutably so, since he doesn't even make a half-assed attempt to refute it whatsoever.
 
2013-12-03 10:25:16 AM

edmo: "President Obama and his EPA raised the regulations by 10 fold and it would have cost the plant $100 million to comply."

Having an internet connection, I discovered the  EPA made these changes in 2008. Apparently Obama is still playing with his magical time machine trying to make Republicans look bad.

/you can look it up


Dude, you still don't understand do you?

i301.photobucket.com
 
2013-12-03 10:30:48 AM
Did Asinine tag out-pollute Ironic tag?
 
2013-12-03 10:31:53 AM

Three Crooked Squirrels: Relatively Obscure: Of course the canned progressive socialist response is "For years families with children near Doe Run's facilities have been exposed to unacceptable levels of lead, one of the most dangerous neurotoxins in the environment," said Cynthia Giles, assistant administrator for the EPA's Office of Compliance and Enforcement Assurance.

And then he addresses this not one bit.  He just throws this line in there and then ignores it completely.

I came to post the exact same thing.  He puts that in there as if he is about to refute it, but never does.  You expect him to at least say something like "But recent tests in the area have proved inconclusive" or something, but he never does. I'm led to conclude that lead levels really were unacceptable.  Irrefutably so, since he doesn't even make a half-assed attempt to refute it whatsoever.


No, it's not a fact.  It's a "canned progressive socialist response".
 
2013-12-03 10:32:14 AM

dittybopper: Batman is a war criminal?


The goddamn batman, maybe....
 
2013-12-03 10:47:50 AM
I'm actually finding amazing, the very fact that West's own readers are refuting his claims, and by a healthy margin.    Most are pointing out that the lead that was produced from this smelting facility was not suitable for producing bullets, but rather ammo makers use reclaimed/recycled lead from car batteries as their preferred material of choice.   There's a bit of the typical "fartbama the commie muslin" crap there, but the majority of it is people contradicting West and calling him out.
 
2013-12-03 10:48:20 AM
A few things:

1) This article is ripped, virtually wholesale from a Daily Caller article in late October, minus a small heap of "liberal socialist Fartbongo" lingo.

2) The effect of this plant closure on ammunition is essentially nil.  88% of all lead production is directed towards lead acid batteries, and more than 90% of used lead acid batteries are recycled - and there are 4 active secondary smelters in the United States which recycle lead acid batteries.  Ammunition is an afterthought of an afterthought in the lead industry.

3) Even if this meant U.S. lead production was forever dead - and it's not - this doesn't mean we would have to buy all our ammunition from China.  It means we'd have to buy all our smelted lead from China.  So what?  Much of our copper and brass for casings comes from South and Central America, among other places.  We're already at China's mercy for lots of raw materials, including things like lithium and rare earth metals that we need to power much of our daily lives.  If the shocking revelation here is that the United States must now import essential metals, you should have been shocked 40 years ago.
 
2013-12-03 10:52:12 AM
I am one who steers very clear of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.


I often believe progressives plant stories in order to distract and disrupt, enabling them to pursue their true goals and objectives.


Things that make you go hmm..?
 
2013-12-03 10:55:47 AM
Bismuth to the rescue!
 
2013-12-03 10:58:33 AM

dittybopper: from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium



I went to school for metallurgical engineering decades ago (though I don't do that for a living) so I'm really curious -- tungsten alloys? Beryllium copper? What possible advantages would those materials have? They both have to be expensive as all hell, tungsten's a biatch to fabricate from what I remember, and if something in the process of firing a bullet reduced a little of the beryllium to fine particles it could be a health hazard.

The DU makes an obvious kind of sense and some of the other materials are cheap and readily available, but the beryllium alloy seems weirdest of all, unless you really need fatigue resistance or non-sparking properties or something...
 
2013-12-03 10:59:57 AM

Nuuu: A few things:

1) This article is ripped, virtually wholesale from a Daily Caller article in late October, minus a small heap of "liberal socialist Fartbongo" lingo.

2) The effect of this plant closure on ammunition is essentially nil.  88% of all lead production is directed towards lead acid batteries, and more than 90% of used lead acid batteries are recycled - and there are 4 active secondary smelters in the United States which recycle lead acid batteries.  Ammunition is an afterthought of an afterthought in the lead industry.

3) Even if this meant U.S. lead production was forever dead - and it's not - this doesn't mean we would have to buy all our ammunition from China.  It means we'd have to buy all our smelted lead from China.  So what?  Much of our copper and brass for casings comes from South and Central America, among other places.  We're already at China's mercy for lots of raw materials, including things like lithium and rare earth metals that we need to power much of our daily lives.  If the shocking revelation here is that the United States must now import essential metals, you should have been shocked 40 years ago.


This may be all true, but he feels that it is the result of liberal socialist atheist homosexuals (just guessing on that last one).  Doesn't that count enough?
 
2013-12-03 11:02:16 AM
Personally, I don't think shutting down the single smelting plant is significant.  It's just not going to be a problem.

I worry more rules that would ban lead ammunition for things like hunting, like California has done.  That's more of a problem because of the way the laws are written, it makes it very tough to comply and much more expensive.
 
2013-12-03 11:04:16 AM

clancifer: Nuuu: A few things:

1) This article is ripped, virtually wholesale from a Daily Caller article in late October, minus a small heap of "liberal socialist Fartbongo" lingo.

2) The effect of this plant closure on ammunition is essentially nil.  88% of all lead production is directed towards lead acid batteries, and more than 90% of used lead acid batteries are recycled - and there are 4 active secondary smelters in the United States which recycle lead acid batteries.  Ammunition is an afterthought of an afterthought in the lead industry.

3) Even if this meant U.S. lead production was forever dead - and it's not - this doesn't mean we would have to buy all our ammunition from China.  It means we'd have to buy all our smelted lead from China.  So what?  Much of our copper and brass for casings comes from South and Central America, among other places.  We're already at China's mercy for lots of raw materials, including things like lithium and rare earth metals that we need to power much of our daily lives.  If the shocking revelation here is that the United States must now import essential metals, you should have been shocked 40 years ago.

This may be all true, but he feels that it is the result of liberal socialist atheist homosexuals (just guessing on that last one).  Doesn't that count enough?


He's just trying to get all his nieces and nephews to send him enough money to buy a nice cabin.
 
2013-12-03 11:04:29 AM
FW:fwd: This is an Outrage!
 
2013-12-03 11:07:03 AM
I am one who steers clear of posting drunk. I often chug a fifth of Jim Beam before I post.
 
2013-12-03 11:10:07 AM
I didn't actually read the article. But why, exactly, does anyone give a fark what nutty AW have to say?
 
2013-12-03 11:18:02 AM

dittybopper: Personally, I don't think shutting down the single smelting plant is significant.  It's just not going to be a problem.

I worry more rules that would ban lead ammunition for things like hunting, like California has done.  That's more of a problem because of the way the laws are written, it makes it very tough to comply and much more expensive.


I am not sure that wasn't intentional on the part of California.

The US seems to have one set of states that encourage gun ownership, and another set that are trying to put an end to it.  I thank my local deity that I'm in PA, and not NY or NJ.
 
2013-12-03 11:29:15 AM
There's plenty of lead around. Doe Run shut down a dated smelter, which means they aren't smelting ore. Probably because that location has a questionable amount of ore justify a new smelter designed to modern specs.
 
2013-12-03 11:32:21 AM
I am one who steers very clear of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.

I often believe progressives plant stories in order to distract and disrupt, enabling them to pursue their true goals and objectives.


 This is even funnier when you read it in the voice of Smeagol and Gollum having an argument.
 
2013-12-03 11:32:50 AM
are you at home killing time on FARK?
google "wheels on the road" and look for Alan West

'nuff read
 
2013-12-03 11:35:42 AM
Here's my question: If he's so upset that there are no longer any lead smelting plants in the United States, why doesn't he... start a new lead smelting plant in the United States?  I thought second amendment fans were supposed to be bootstrappy
 
2013-12-03 11:36:51 AM
 
2013-12-03 11:37:30 AM

neversubmit: I am one who steers very clear of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories.


I often believe progressives plant stories in order to distract and disrupt, enabling them to pursue their true goals and objectives.


Things that make you go hmm..?


This.

Opening paragraph: I don't buy conspiracy theories.

Rest of article: Conspiracy theories.
 
2013-12-03 11:38:21 AM

phaseolus: dittybopper: from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium


I went to school for metallurgical engineering decades ago (though I don't do that for a living) so I'm really curious -- tungsten alloys? Beryllium copper? What possible advantages would those materials have? They both have to be expensive as all hell, tungsten's a biatch to fabricate from what I remember, and if something in the process of firing a bullet reduced a little of the beryllium to fine particles it could be a health hazard.

The DU makes an obvious kind of sense and some of the other materials are cheap and readily available, but the beryllium alloy seems weirdest of all, unless you really need fatigue resistance or non-sparking properties or something...


Tungsten is used for armor piercing ammo, because of its hardness and density, as is Beryllium Copper.

The law as originally drafted was going to be "performance based":  Any round that could be fired in a handgun and that could penetrate an exemplar vest would have been banned.  The problem was that handguns that fire rifle caliber bullets (popular for things like metallic silhouette shooting and hunting) would have led to the unintended consequence of banning nearly every common deer rifle caliber.  This is because vests rated to stop pistol bullets won't stop rifle bullets fired from a pistol.

The NRA stepped in and worked with Congress to make the ban based on construction, not performance, and that avoided the banning of calibers like the .30-30 Winchester and .30'06 Springfield.

Of course, it was spun that the NRA wanted people to have access to "cop killer" bullets, when in fact it was trying to protect hunters from having their rifle ammo reclassified and banned as "cop killer pistol ammo".
 
2013-12-03 11:39:28 AM

Marcus Aurelius: I thank my local deity that I'm in PA, and not NY or NJ.


Funny, cuz I thank mine I'm in NJ and not PA.

/Pennsyltucky
 
2013-12-03 11:39:44 AM

wildcardjack: There's plenty of lead around. Doe Run shut down a dated smelter, which means they aren't smelting ore. Probably because that location has a questionable amount of ore justify a new smelter designed to modern specs.


If you know a good source of non-alloyed dead soft pure lead, let me know.  Primitive Biathlon season is coming up, and I need to start shooting more to get in practice.
 
2013-12-03 11:43:15 AM
img.fark.net
 
2013-12-03 11:46:16 AM
Does Allen West want to bring back leaded gas for his Hummer?

imageshack.us
 
2013-12-03 11:49:50 AM

dittybopper: Batman is a war criminal?


Allen West was Green Lantern.
 
2013-12-03 11:53:02 AM

xanadian: dittybopper: Batman is a war criminal?

The goddamn batman, maybe....


Hey. They've got nothing on me.
 
2013-12-03 11:59:45 AM
Why do I feel like Allen West:

"I am one who steers very clear of tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. I often believe progressives plan stories in order to district and disrupt,"

Is channelling Rick James?"

www.soulhead.com

Real Rick James:  See, I never just did things just to do them. Come on, what am I gonna do? Just all of a sudden jump up and grind my feet on somebody's couch like it's something to do? Come on. I got a little more sense than that.
[pause]
Reat Rick James:  Yeah, I remember grinding my feet on Eddie's couch.
 
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