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(Salon)   Rick Santorum complains that "sicker, older" Americans are signing up for Obamacare   (salon.com) divider line 213
    More: Obvious, obamacare, Americans, income redistribution, young voters  
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2644 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Dec 2013 at 2:36 PM (31 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-02 01:37:15 PM
Santorum is a walking, living, breathing case of irritable bowel syndrome.
 
2013-12-02 01:47:10 PM
He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?

In a sane world the Chairman of the Skeeter County Republican Party would hit "DECLINE" on his cell phone every day when Rick Santorum called asking to be on the ballot for Register of Graves, not have people actually think "Yes, this raging hypocrite barely able to disguise his loathing for the majority of Americans needs to be president."
 
2013-12-02 02:06:39 PM
I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?
 
2013-12-02 02:10:06 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


Sow discord and hope that somehow it works out to their advantage.
 
2013-12-02 02:13:54 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


Giving the GOP a ton of credit...put out a farking lunatic like Santorum, to make their real candidate look like a reasonable moderate in comparison.
 
2013-12-02 02:14:38 PM

Diogenes: Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

Sow discord and hope that somehow it works out to their advantage.


That's not an end game tho. I mean the GOP has to have some goal in mind, right? They can't just want to tear down the country and not replace it with something new. So they have to have something in mind.
 
2013-12-02 02:15:26 PM

Sgt Otter: Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

Giving the GOP a ton of credit...put out a farking lunatic like Santorum, to make their real candidate look like a reasonable moderate in comparison.


Weaver95: Diogenes: Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

Sow discord and hope that somehow it works out to their advantage.

That's not an end game tho. I mean the GOP has to have some goal in mind, right? They can't just want to tear down the country and not replace it with something new. So they have to have something in mind.


I think you're both giving them WAY too much credit.
 
2013-12-02 02:16:41 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?


he's the pat paulsen of the american taliban
 
2013-12-02 02:18:20 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


Keep up the narrative until enough voters are pissed off. Not a great strategy, but it's better than actually examining their own policy...
 
2013-12-02 02:29:31 PM
FTFA: "On CNN's 'State of the Union' Sunday Santorum"

I now imagine "State of the Union Sunday Santorum" to be a weekly segment on CNN. You're welcome for that image.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: "Yes, this raging hypocrite barely able to disguise his loathing for the majority of Americans needs to be president"


There are many words I would use to describe Santorum, but hypocrite isn't generally on the list.
 
2013-12-02 02:31:47 PM
When Mitt Romney insulted "the 47 percent" of Americans who pay no federal income taxes, he failed to notice that the vast majority of them are white, most of them white seniors, the most reliably Republican voters in the country. A large portion of the people Paul Ryan describes as "takers" - vs. productive "makers" - are likewise older whites. And although Ryan and his party want to turn Medicare into a voucher program - run by exchanges, much like the Affordable Care Act - they tried to hide that fact during the 2012 race because it was hugely unpopular with their base.

Except the GOP can by and large get away with it with their older, white audience by running other interference issues with them ("Gays! Liberals! Guns! Athiests!")
 
2013-12-02 02:36:44 PM
obamacare is not a service that one can sign up for hth
 
2013-12-02 02:36:50 PM
Barring "putting down old white people" though.... on a very literal read of his point, if a health insurance company only has old, sick people on its doles paying premiums, it isn't going to be an inexpensive or long lasting company for long.... so, to that point, it is valid.

/not that the facts bear that is the case in this point.
 
2013-12-02 02:37:06 PM
How dare they.
 
2013-12-02 02:38:29 PM
I talked to one insurance company today, a third of their enrollees are over sixty years of age. That is not how an insurance system would work, but those are the people signing up and the folks who can keep their plans because they're more customized and lower cost, will now. And the folks who are going to get into these exchanges are going to be probably sicker, older, and as a result, premiums are even going to go higher.


this piece of literal human garbage is MAD BECAUSE THE ELDERLY MIGHT BE ABLE TO AFFORD INSURANCE
 
2013-12-02 02:39:01 PM
So we can just put away the notion that the GOP actually cares about these people. Their plan was just for them to die already.
 
2013-12-02 02:39:11 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


1. Nominate lunatics
2. Get destroyed in the general election
3. ???
4. 1000 years of Republican rule.
 
2013-12-02 02:39:30 PM

Weaver95: Diogenes: Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

Sow discord and hope that somehow it works out to their advantage.

That's not an end game tho. I mean the GOP has to have some goal in mind, right? They can't just want to tear down the country and not replace it with something new. So they have to have something in mind.


I think it's like the villains in cartoons. They really are just in it for themselves. There's an overarching strategy only in that they find attaching to some popular ideology useful for their individual ambitions. That's why they don't really have long term plans - just short term schemes.
 
2013-12-02 02:39:43 PM
ctr.truscottrossman.netdna-cdn.com

I want him to run just so we can see if the schadenfruede can get any more delicious than this picture.
 
2013-12-02 02:40:15 PM

Jackson Herring: obamacare is not a service that one can sign up for hth


F*ck you.  I signed up for the Patriot Act and now every time I curse someone out on Fark or watch midget porn, the NSA knows about it. Best $3.50 I ever spent was on spycare.gov.
 
2013-12-02 02:40:58 PM
nmrsnr:

There are many words I would use to describe Santorum, but hypocrite isn't generally on the list.

He supports tort reform with a very small damages cap.  Of course, this was after he and his wife won a massive malpractice suit.

He denounces a college education as something for "snobs," while holding an MBA and a J.D..

Then there's the fact that he an evangelical theocrat, while using Sharia Law as a boogeyman to rile up his base.
 
2013-12-02 02:41:06 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


Derp is its own reward.
 
2013-12-02 02:42:01 PM
Stay Frothy, ricky.
 
2013-12-02 02:42:43 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


Profit.
 
2013-12-02 02:42:58 PM

Jackson Herring: I talked to one insurance company today, a third of their enrollees are over sixty years of age. That is not how an insurance system would work, but those are the people signing up and the folks who can keep their plans because they're more customized and lower cost, will now. And the folks who are going to get into these exchanges are going to be probably sicker, older, and as a result, premiums are even going to go higher.


this piece of literal human garbage is MAD BECAUSE THE ELDERLY MIGHT BE ABLE TO AFFORD INSURANCE


He's more upset because he just figured out why we have Medicare in the first damned place.

What he's complaining about is LITERALLY the reason it was created. Private for-profit insurance for the elderly or chronically ill is an oxymoron - there's no profit in paying for healthcare for sick people.
 
2013-12-02 02:43:49 PM

Fart_Machine: So we can just put away the notion that the GOP actually cares about these people. Their plan was just for them to die already.


But they have to stay alive long enough to vote in the next election!

Whatever will the GOP do?
 
2013-12-02 02:44:22 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

I think this is the strategy...


thesocietypages.org
 
2013-12-02 02:45:34 PM
isn't the whole she-bang predicated on the fact that younger healthier individuals would sign up and pay for the older sicker folks? Is his point that the younger healthier crowd is not signing up and therefore the economics aren't working out?
 
2013-12-02 02:46:41 PM

Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?


" Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, are given a chance to climb. They refuse, they cling to the realm or the gods or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is."

~Petyr Baelish
~Rand Paul
 
2013-12-02 02:46:51 PM
I am confused. I had thought the current Republican opposition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was based upon the claim that people were losing health insurance because of it. Mr. Santorum appears to oppose the same law because people are receiving health insurance because of it.
 
2013-12-02 02:48:02 PM
I don't know who is more wrong here - author of TFA, subby, or you posters.

If older, sicker Americans are disproportionately signing up for ACA, that is BAD FOR ACA!

Santorum isn't complaining that old sick Americans are getting insurance, he's pointing out that if that happens it is going to raise costs and premiums, because it costs more to care for a sick old person. The success of ACA will depend on younger,healthier individuals signing up for the exchanges, whose premiums will subsidize those who are sick and old.

Why do you think it's proponents wanted mothers to talk their kids into signing up over thanksgiving. If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Any supporters of ACA should hope very strongly that old sick Americans do not sign up disproportionately.
 
2013-12-02 02:49:51 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?


Good.  Him and Cruz will keep the GOP debates from sounding sane.
 
2013-12-02 02:50:51 PM

Weaver95: They can't just want to tear down the country and not replace it with something new. So they have to have something in mind.


They don't want to replace it with something new exactly; they'd be happy with making it over the in the image of the antebellum South.
 
2013-12-02 02:51:08 PM

Dimensio: I am confused. I had thought the current Republican opposition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was based upon the claim that people were losing health insurance because of it. Mr. Santorum appears to oppose the same law because people are receiving health insurance because of it.


Contrarians tend to disagree with lots of stuff.
 
2013-12-02 02:51:31 PM

ALL GIRLS AGREE TO PULL PANTIES DOWN: He supports tort reform with a very small damages cap. Of course, this was after he and his wife won a massive malpractice suit.


Okay, that counts, but not really what he's known for.

He denounces a college education as something for "snobs," while holding an MBA and a J.D..

He might consider himself a snob.

Then there's the fact that he an evangelical theocrat, while using Sharia Law as a boogeyman to rile up his base.

That's just consistent, if he is enlightened by the Truth, then any competing theologies are wrong and sinful.

There are politicians I label as brazen hypocrites, like Newt Gingrich, who attempted to impeach a President for lying about an affair, while lying about an affair. Rick Santorum I put in the "religious zealot" category, like Mike Huckabee or Michele Bachmann. Santorum might be crazy, but he strikes me as one of the more consistent politicians.
 
2013-12-02 02:51:38 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I don't know who is more wrong here - author of TFA, subby, or you posters.

If older, sicker Americans are disproportionately signing up for ACA, that is BAD FOR ACA!

Santorum isn't complaining that old sick Americans are getting insurance, he's pointing out that if that happens it is going to raise costs and premiums, because it costs more to care for a sick old person. The success of ACA will depend on younger,healthier individuals signing up for the exchanges, whose premiums will subsidize those who are sick and old.

Why do you think it's proponents wanted mothers to talk their kids into signing up over thanksgiving. If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Any supporters of ACA should hope very strongly that old sick Americans do not sign up disproportionately.


That post could make you the most soulless POS to post on Fark today.  Kudos!

//also, the old people should be signing up for Medicare, which you know, Colonel Blackenstein didn't come up with.
 
2013-12-02 02:52:07 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.


Actually, you know it will be mandatory and people will have to pay penalties to the IRS if they don't sign up.

Now when that starts happening, what do you think people will do?
 
2013-12-02 02:52:15 PM

ryant123: Weaver95: They can't just want to tear down the country and not replace it with something new. So they have to have something in mind.

They don't want to replace it with something new exactly; they'd be happy with making it over the in the image of the antebellum South.


They'd be a-ok with making it the south before the war too, if they could get the votes to bring back slavery.
 
2013-12-02 02:53:18 PM

Muta: Mr. Coffee Nerves: He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?

Good.  Him and Cruz will keep the GOP debates from sounding sane.


The Fall of Romney has made sure the GOP debates will never sound sane.  The phrase "We have to be more conservative" is further encased in carbonite than Han ever was.
 
2013-12-02 02:54:50 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I don't know who is more wrong here - author of TFA, subby, or you posters.

If older, sicker Americans are disproportionately signing up for ACA, that is BAD FOR ACA!

Santorum isn't complaining that old sick Americans are getting insurance, he's pointing out that if that happens it is going to raise costs and premiums, because it costs more to care for a sick old person. The success of ACA will depend on younger,healthier individuals signing up for the exchanges, whose premiums will subsidize those who are sick and old.

Why do you think it's proponents wanted mothers to talk their kids into signing up over thanksgiving. If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Any supporters of ACA should hope very strongly that old sick Americans do not sign up disproportionately.


A couple of things I noticed there.   First of all, "bad for the ACA" is kind of a weird phrasing.  The ACA is a law based, it seems, predominately on regulations and subsidies for people buying insurance as individuals.  Whether costs go up or down (hint:  they'll go up regardless of the law) the ACA is the ACA.  The only thing that would technically be ''bad" for the ACA if if the GOP ever manages to get enough senators elected to repeal it.  For that matter, going single payer would be "bad" for the ACA since that would replace it with a sensible way of administering health care.

Secondly, these old sick people still exist even if they're not insured.  And they still use hospitals and doctors... they just end up not being able to pay for it at all and that automagically gets added to the cost of existing plans.
 
2013-12-02 02:55:14 PM

Debeo Summa Credo: I don't know who is more wrong here - author of TFA, subby, or you posters.

If older, sicker Americans are disproportionately signing up for ACA, that is BAD FOR ACA!

Santorum isn't complaining that old sick Americans are getting insurance, he's pointing out that if that happens it is going to raise costs and premiums, because it costs more to care for a sick old person. The success of ACA will depend on younger,healthier individuals signing up for the exchanges, whose premiums will subsidize those who are sick and old.

Why do you think it's proponents wanted mothers to talk their kids into signing up over thanksgiving. If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Any supporters of ACA should hope very strongly that old sick Americans do not sign up disproportionately.


Actually, many people want this to happen, showing the inherent unsustainability of private insurance, while simultaneously getting people irrevocably attached to the concept of "healthcare for all" in order to show the benefits of single payer, or at least the "Medicare for All" public option.
 
2013-12-02 02:55:37 PM

Confabulat: Debeo Summa Credo: If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Actually, you know it will be mandatory and people will have to pay penalties to the IRS if they don't sign up.

Now when that starts happening, what do you think people will do?


I don't know what they will do, but I know what he will do - point a finger at Obummer and say "Why do you hate young people, 0bamao?  Weren't you young once?"  It is a nut and shell game with them, because Real Tardmericans will fall for it.
 
2013-12-02 02:55:52 PM
i2.cdn.turner.com
 
2013-12-02 02:56:07 PM

Muta: Mr. Coffee Nerves: He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?

Good.  Him and Cruz will keep the GOP debates from sounding sane.


The GOP need at least two derpers with staying power for the primaries, that way they will split the crazy vote to clear the way for a vaguely sane candidate to make it through to the national election.

See Gingrich + Santorum in 2012 for an example.

If the GOP ends up with one derper and one sane candidate going head to head as front-runners they run the very real risk of ending up with nominee who will not only get crushed by the Democrat challenger but will likely drag down a lot of House and Senate races too.
 
2013-12-02 02:56:21 PM

chasd00: isn't the whole she-bang predicated on the fact that younger healthier individuals would sign up and pay for the older sicker folks? Is his point that the younger healthier crowd is not signing up and therefore the economics aren't working out?


Forget it. The mention of both Rick Santorum and Obamacare has them in a froth.
 
2013-12-02 02:57:26 PM

apoptotic: Weaver95: I just can't figure the GOP strategy out here...what's their end goal?

Profit.


This is probably the closest. Businesses want to be handed taxpayer money because hey, money. Right wing politicians fall into two camps. One camp consists of those that honestly believe, regardless of evidence, that handing that money to private interests would be cheaper and more effective than having the government do anything. The other camp are cynics who manipulate people like the ones in the first camp to personally profit off of giving favorable legislation to private interests or just get a boost from populist messaging.

Santorum strikes me as part of the first camp. He's big into the social conservative side which is largely a tool used by the second camp to keep the first camp in line.
 
2013-12-02 02:57:28 PM

MayoSlather: Dimensio: I am confused. I had thought the current Republican opposition to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act was based upon the claim that people were losing health insurance because of it. Mr. Santorum appears to oppose the same law because people are receiving health insurance because of it.

Contrarians tend to disagree with lots of stuff.


As a contrarian, I disagree with your statement.
 
2013-12-02 02:58:14 PM

Confabulat: Debeo Summa Credo: If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Actually, you know it will be mandatory and people will have to pay penalties to the IRS if they don't sign up.

Now when that starts happening, what do you think people will do?


That is true, however the penalties are very low, relative to the cost of insurance. $95 for the first year IIRC, increasing in later years.

I agree with you that the penalties (ahem, "taxes") are a vital part of ACA, and think they should be raised to the point where it makes no economic sense not to enroll, to avoid the issue that Santorum is pointing out.
 
2013-12-02 02:58:30 PM

coeyagi: Confabulat: Debeo Summa Credo: If the young people don't come, this is going to flop.

Actually, you know it will be mandatory and people will have to pay penalties to the IRS if they don't sign up.

Now when that starts happening, what do you think people will do?

I don't know what they will do, but I know what he will do - point a finger at Obummer and say "Why do you hate young people, 0bamao?  Weren't you young once?"  It is a nut and shell game with them, because Real Tardmericans will fall for it.


Just like this latest thing with Rush and the Pope.  People are going to start attacking the Pope, because they're dumb enough to believe Rush.
 
2013-12-02 02:59:48 PM

Target Builder: Muta: Mr. Coffee Nerves: He really is going to throw his sweater vest in the ring for 2016, isn't he?

Good.  Him and Cruz will keep the GOP debates from sounding sane.

The GOP need at least two derpers with staying power for the primaries, that way they will split the crazy vote to clear the way for a vaguely sane candidate to make it through to the national election.

See Gingrich + Santorum in 2012 for an example.

If the GOP ends up with one derper and one sane candidate going head to head as front-runners they run the very real risk of ending up with nominee who will not only get crushed by the Democrat challenger but will likely drag down a lot of House and Senate races too.


Very good point.  So what we really want is to have a crazy candidate be TOO crazy so that it is down to one crazy (Cruz or Santorum) and one not-as-crazy (Christie)  by the start of the primary season.  Not sure if that TOO crazy person is Cruz or Santorum at this point.
 
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