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(The New Republic)   Forced out of your home by marauding rebels? Congratulations, you're officially a refugee. Live in a Pacific island country that will be underwater by 2030? No such luck, according to a court located well above sea level   (newrepublic.com) divider line 99
    More: Fail, High Commissioner for Refugees, Cook Islands, Pacific Islanders, Marshall Islands, island nations, Pacific island, Jeffrey Goldberg, sea-level rise  
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4598 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2013 at 1:29 PM (47 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-02 01:32:58 PM  
"Forced" to take them in?

I drtfa, but the article headline makes it sound like an agenda is in play.
 
2013-12-02 01:33:00 PM  

MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER ISN'T!!!!

 
2013-12-02 01:34:19 PM  

vudukungfu: MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER ISN'T!!!!


Dry land is a myth...
 
2013-12-02 01:35:00 PM  
I'm no climate-change denier, but low volcanic islands and coral atolls were never great choices for permanent settlement by people.  Little, low islands like that come and go all the time (from a geologic perspective anyway).
 
2013-12-02 01:35:17 PM  
If you've got over 15 years to get your shiat together and find a new home, you're not a refugee.
 
2013-12-02 01:35:31 PM  
I'm guessing time is a factor here.  2030 is a bit farther off than the incoming shell fire raining down on your house.  You have time to move and rebuild.  Maybe not with the capital from your land, but with more than someone fleeing a burning house.
 
2013-12-02 01:35:51 PM  

vudukungfu: MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER ISN'T!!!!


Something about common sense not being common?
 
2013-12-02 01:37:22 PM  
YOU LIVE ON A farkING ISLAND ONLY 2 farkING INCHES ABOVE SEA LEVEL !
AHHHHHRRRHH   AHHHRRRHHRRHH AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

www.findadeath.com
 
2013-12-02 01:37:30 PM  
The issue is the precedent. A vast number of people live in coastal areas within a meter or two of sea level, and sea level doesn't have to rise very much for housing that close to the water to become uninhabitable. Storm surges, etc, make a bigger difference than is intuitive.

If governments agree to take in displaced refugees . . . and then 40% of, say, Bangladesh's population becomes displaced . . . who's going to take those people in?

Nobody wants to go on record saying this is their responsibility.
 
2013-12-02 01:37:42 PM  
Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2013-12-02 01:37:46 PM  
Should ANY country be FORCED to take them in?
How about NO?

Gradual and slow global changes or not the same thing as armed insurgency.
One is "Hey my feet get wet on this road now, better make a decision soon about this".
The other is "OK, OK, we're leaving please just don't kill us" as you flee without looking back or taking anything that belongs to you.
 
2013-12-02 01:38:18 PM  
Simple Solution: have the government secretly fund a rebel group that forces residents to flee from thier homes.  Problem solved.

In all seriousness, what going on in Kirbati is tragic, people have lived there continuously for 3,000+ years and will all be gone in less than 50, and since there's no single country on earth that can absorb that many refugees it's almost dead certain a modern-day Diaspora will be the result.  And the president of the country has given up any hope of convincing the world to stop making the problem happen, so he;s reduced to running a massive governmental job training effort to ensure the refugees have job skills in demand in the countries they'll likely land in, so at least they can have some measure of dignity as immigrants, instead of wretched existences as refugees dependent on handouts
 
2013-12-02 01:38:25 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: I'm no climate-change denier, but low volcanic islands and coral atolls were never great choices for permanent settlement by people.  Little, low islands like that come and go all the time (from a geologic perspective anyway).


Yeah, why didn't they consider that when they moved in a few thousand years ago?!
 
2013-12-02 01:39:26 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: I'm no climate-change denier, but low volcanic islands and coral atolls were never great choices for permanent settlement by people.  Little, low islands like that come and go all the time (from a geologic perspective anyway).


syberpud: I'm guessing time is a factor here.  2030 is a bit farther off than the incoming shell fire raining down on your house.  You have time to move and rebuild.  Maybe not with the capital from your land, but with more than someone fleeing a burning house.


If your whole country is going underwater, you may not be able to find anyone to take you as an immigrant at anytime between now and then.  Though this particular case does look like there are other places to go without being an immigrant, we could see the Maldives go completely bye bye before too long.
 
2013-12-02 01:41:30 PM  

Griftin Rubes: YOU LIVE ON A farkING ISLAND ONLY 2 farkING INCHES ABOVE SEA LEVEL !
AHHHHHRRRHH   AHHHRRRHHRRHH AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

[www.findadeath.com image 220x223]


Came for this.

/leaving satisfied.
 
2013-12-02 01:42:34 PM  
Go Saints!!

img.fark.net

No, really... go. Half of your town is going to be underwater soon.
 
2013-12-02 01:45:26 PM  

Griftin Rubes: YOU LIVE ON A farkING ISLAND ONLY 2 farkING INCHES ABOVE SEA LEVEL !
AHHHHHRRRHH   AHHHRRRHHRRHH AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

[www.findadeath.com image 220x223]


So do 634 Million people, more or less, worldwide.   10% of the human population is a lot to move....
 
2013-12-02 01:46:44 PM  

Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.



So ~150 million people become marauding rebels and drive ~150 million people from their homes making them refugees, better?
 
2013-12-02 01:47:05 PM  

ElLoco: Go Saints!!

[img.fark.net image 212x250]

No, really... go. Half of your town is going to be underwater soon.


Half?  Amateurs:
oldgoldandblack.com
 
2013-12-02 01:48:50 PM  

Griftin Rubes: YOU LIVE ON A farkING ISLAND ONLY 2 farkING INCHES ABOVE SEA LEVEL !
AHHHHHRRRHH   AHHHRRRHHRRHH AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH


*snert*

+1
 
2013-12-02 01:48:58 PM  
 
2013-12-02 01:49:17 PM  

Magorn: ElLoco: Go Saints!!

[img.fark.net image 212x250]

No, really... go. Half of your town is going to be underwater soon.

Half?  Amateurs:
[oldgoldandblack.com image 850x637]


Yea... but that's on the other side of the world. The water in question is only rising in the Pacific.
 
2013-12-02 01:50:05 PM  

Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: HMS_Blinkin: I'm no climate-change denier, but low volcanic islands and coral atolls were never great choices for permanent settlement by people.  Little, low islands like that come and go all the time (from a geologic perspective anyway).

Yeah, why didn't they consider that when they moved in a few thousand years ago?!


I'm not saying they should have, but environments change even without human interference.  There are places people can live today that would have been inhospitable a few thousand years ago; conversely there are places that are much more difficult for people that they were in the past.  Islanders should be allowed to migrate if need be, but there's no expectation that any geographical location is "permanent."
 
2013-12-02 01:50:16 PM  

omgrtfa: Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.


So ~150 million people become marauding rebels and drive ~150 million people from their homes making them refugees, better?


A massive turd is going to hit the fan. But unfortunately world powers seem to have a very strong preference for waiting until an event everyone knows will happen becomes absolute crisis before even thinking about doing something.
 
2013-12-02 01:51:17 PM  

Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.


Couldn't those Bangledeshis just move to other parts of Bangladesh?  Losing a chunk of your country's land isn't the same thing as actually losing ALL of it.
 
2013-12-02 01:51:30 PM  
The last Moot Court competition I judged was on this exact topic, so, getting a kick...

with my swim fins.
 
2013-12-02 01:51:50 PM  
"However, sea-level rise may not necessarily inundate Kiribati. ...  the three major urbanised islands in Kiribati-Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai-increased by 30% (36 hectares), 16.3% (5.8 hectares) and 12.5% (0.8 hectares), respectively." [Wikipedia]

Pisa, Italy, laughs at your hijinks, and wants its ocean ports back. They're now seven miles away from where they were before the ocean levels fell during the Little Ice Age.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/02/history-falsifies-climate-alarm i st-sea-level-claims/
 
2013-12-02 01:54:55 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Islanders should be allowed to migrate if need be, but there's no expectation that any geographical location is "permanent."


♪ We're islanders on the asteroids... ♪
 
2013-12-02 01:55:00 PM  
Well in 2030, I will be happy to give them refugee status, however, until that actually happens, there is no point in jumping the gun.  A hell of a lot can happen in the next sixteen years.
 
2013-12-02 01:55:23 PM  
The Atlanteans are not amused.
 
2013-12-02 01:55:39 PM  
Over 15+ years people should be able to evolve gills and fins
 
2013-12-02 01:59:18 PM  

Kyosuke: If you've got over 15 years to get your shiat together and find a new home, you're not a refugee.


This.

I understand that it sucks balls that your home will be under water in 15 years. Maybe you should spend the next two years building boats.
 
2013-12-02 01:59:51 PM  
Oz has a bunch of land that's not being used an the Kiribatians use their currency.
 
2013-12-02 02:01:28 PM  
They're just trolling for money, there is no sea level rise in Kiribati
 
2013-12-02 02:01:34 PM  

Target Builder: omgrtfa: Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.


So ~150 million people become marauding rebels and drive ~150 million people from their homes making them refugees, better?

A massive turd is going to hit the fan. But unfortunately world powers seem to have a very strong preference for waiting until an event everyone knows will happen becomes absolute crisis before even thinking about doing something.



That's human perception for ya, keep a disaster from happening and you've done nothing. But if you give a few bucks after the fact you're a hero. How we survive so misguided is a mystery.
 
2013-12-02 02:01:40 PM  
WelldeadLink:  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/02/history-falsifies-climate-alarm i st-sea-level-claims/

That looks like a perfectly reputable source.  wattsupwiththat.com is absolutely on par with peer-reviewed, reputable scientific journals.
 
2013-12-02 02:01:47 PM  
Speaking of that waterworld movie.... what the hell was that shiat where a submerible made of garbage is able to go down 2000 feet down.  How come she didnt look shrink wrapped?
 
2013-12-02 02:01:58 PM  

dryknife: Over 15+ years people should be able to evolve gills and fins


The fact that they haven't already started evolving fins just proves evolution is a lie planted by the devil
 
2013-12-02 02:02:14 PM  

EWreckedSean: vudukungfu: MOVE TO WHERE THE WATER ISN'T!!!!

Dry land is a myth...


Maybe 30 years ago you could have felt secure in your land mass. A dry place to retire.

But we've seen the shrinking of the land masses every year, while all the water goes right to the top. Now we send most of our land underseas.

Face it, the dry land mass is dead, and it's not coming back.
 
2013-12-02 02:02:33 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.

Couldn't those Bangledeshis just move to other parts of Bangladesh?  Losing a chunk of your country's land isn't the same thing as actually losing ALL of it.


www.seos-project.eu

The "other parts of Bangladesh" are already pretty crowded.  The only bit that isn't is the part up in the mountains, where it's hard to put people.  There isn't room in the rest of Bangladesh for them to move to.
 
2013-12-02 02:04:06 PM  

HMS_Blinkin: Gyro the Greek Sandwich Pirate: HMS_Blinkin: I'm no climate-change denier, but low volcanic islands and coral atolls were never great choices for permanent settlement by people.  Little, low islands like that come and go all the time (from a geologic perspective anyway).

Yeah, why didn't they consider that when they moved in a few thousand years ago?!

I'm not saying they should have, but environments change even without human interference.  There are places people can live today that would have been inhospitable a few thousand years ago; conversely there are places that are much more difficult for people that they were in the past.  Islanders should be allowed to migrate if need be, but there's no expectation that any geographical location is "permanent."

i.livescience.comnews.nationalgeographic.com
concur with your message (picture of settlements found beneath the English Channel and Black Sea)
 
2013-12-02 02:06:59 PM  

WelldeadLink: "However, sea-level rise may not necessarily inundate Kiribati. ...  the three major urbanised islands in Kiribati-Betio, Bairiki and Nanikai-increased by 30% (36 hectares), 16.3% (5.8 hectares) and 12.5% (0.8 hectares), respectively." [Wikipedia]

Pisa, Italy, laughs at your hijinks, and wants its ocean ports back. They're now seven miles away from where they were before the ocean levels fell during the Little Ice Age.  http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/12/02/history-falsifies-climate-alarm i st-sea-level-claims/


What a ridiculous premise.

Ice ages happen, so climate change doesn't exist?
 
2013-12-02 02:13:33 PM  

sendtodave: What a ridiculous premise.

Ice ages happen, so climate change doesn't exist?


What a ridiculous premise.

Returning to a previous sea level is because man is raising the sea level?
 
2013-12-02 02:17:42 PM  

Lachwen: HMS_Blinkin: Target Builder: Nobody wants a precedent set where approx 150 million Bangladeshis who live a few yards above sea level could turn up on their doorstep able to claim asylum.

Couldn't those Bangledeshis just move to other parts of Bangladesh?  Losing a chunk of your country's land isn't the same thing as actually losing ALL of it.



The "other parts of Bangladesh" are already pretty crowded.  The only bit that isn't is the part up in the mountains, where it's hard to put people.  There isn't room in the rest of Bangladesh for them to move to.


Anything lower than Macau level population density still has room to grow.

20,000 people per square kilometer
7,000,000,000 people
350,000 square kilometers needed

The whole world could live in CA and TX.
 
2013-12-02 02:20:39 PM  

sendtodave: The whole world could live in CA and TX.


Badly.
 
2013-12-02 02:21:51 PM  

bunner: sendtodave: The whole world could live in CA and TX.

Badly.


There would be a lot fewer people after a fairly short time...
 
2013-12-02 02:23:36 PM  

WelldeadLink: sendtodave: What a ridiculous premise.

Ice ages happen, so climate change doesn't exist?

What a ridiculous premise.

Returning to a previous sea level is because man is raising the sea level?


We know carbon dioxide absorbs energy, rereleasing it as heat. We know how much carbon dioxide we have released.

What mechanism do you propose would stop anthropogenic warming and therefore sea level rise?
 
2013-12-02 02:25:10 PM  

WelldeadLink: sendtodave: What a ridiculous premise.

Ice ages happen, so climate change doesn't exist?

What a ridiculous premise.

Returning to a previous sea level is because man is raising the sea level?


Oh, I get it.

Changes in climate happen naturally, so let's do nothing to curb our contribution to the current changes in climate.

Brilliant.
 
2013-12-02 02:26:25 PM  

bunner: sendtodave: The whole world could live in CA and TX.

Badly.


Works for Macau. And the only natural resource that they have is casinos.
 
2013-12-02 02:26:32 PM  
ElLoco: "... The water in question is only rising in the Pacific."

Ah no, the water is only rising where the locals can cry Wolf loud enough... and get $$$ from the suckers in the US...

That same rising water level should #1- have manifested itself over the last 30-50 yrs ( from 1960, 1970's, etc til now); and #2 would be evident all along the Pacific Basin... so, now let's check in with the beach combers at San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle... how is their +2-3 feet of water level rising looking?

And, #3 if it rises in the Pacific, then too, it will rise in the Arctic, the Antarctic and the Atlantic... and hey, in the Indian Ocean too... (add Med and Black Sea too!)... (All bodies of water linked in one giant Fluid Dynamics vessel).

Well, it will be a long and slow melt down of the Glaciers and Antarctic ice pack to swamp the good ole folks of Kiribati.  Stay tuned for more money grubbing Al Gore kool-aid drinkers...
 
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