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(CBC)   Canada is making a claim this week to an Arctic area 3x the size of Texas. WAKE UP YOU FOOLS THEY ARE MAKING THEIR MOVE   (cbc.ca) divider line 25
    More: Obvious, Arctic, Texas, square kilometres, Ellesmere Island, law of the sea, fools  
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6078 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Dec 2013 at 9:46 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Archived thread
2013-12-02 08:59:39 AM  
3 votes:
Canada could own out or Russia. Take your pick.
2013-12-02 10:57:28 AM  
2 votes:

SurfaceTension: [cponline.thecanadianpress.com image 850x682] [news.bbcimg.co.uk image 624x520]

What's the difference exactly?


Canada has done the footwork to make the claim in an international forum with all affected parties having the ability to challenge the new maritime borders.

China draw some new lines and then threatened to shoot down anything that entered the area.
2013-12-02 10:53:05 AM  
2 votes:
cponline.thecanadianpress.com news.bbcimg.co.uk

What's the difference exactly?
2013-12-02 10:24:16 AM  
2 votes:

dywed88: Jim_Callahan: That's pretty crazy indeed, since by that logic the US could potentially claim most of the pacific ocean as our territorial waters.

No, a country can have economic rights to the seabed of the continental shelf up to 350 nautical miles from the coast


Also, on a great deal of your west coast the shelf is very narrow, so your actual territorial claims already extend past the shelf.
2013-12-02 09:49:01 AM  
2 votes:
I really need to to start submitting crappy headlines.
2013-12-02 09:45:33 AM  
2 votes:

SilentStrider: They can have it.

And Texas too if they want it.


Sure. I'll take some Canadian universal healthcare. Why not?
2013-12-02 10:36:41 PM  
1 votes:

Juc: Oh lord, you joke but canada actually does have a strategic maple syrup reserve :/


I thought that was actually a Quebec provincial thing. You know, since maple syrup is their primary resource alongside municipal corruption.
2013-12-02 01:39:16 PM  
1 votes:
Meh, if we were making a move we'd have the Dakotas and probably Minnesota before you guys noticed. (not that anyone wants most of that.)
We're quiet, amiable and unassuming, it'd be the most polite invasion ever.
2013-12-02 01:07:16 PM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Isn't making an ocean claim that far out from your own coastline somewhat problematic international-law-wise?

I mean, I don't think anyone's going to actively contest this, so there's an element of "who cares" there, but I'm a bit curious if theyre actually expecting this to hold up.


This is continental shelf. The rules of international law and agreements on Arctic Ocean territorial claims are pretty clear. What wasn't clear is where exactly the continental shelf ends. So Canadian scientists were sent to explore and map the shelf. There is a deadline that all countries making territorial claims have to meet. As the article states, some countries have filed their claims, some are stilling working on them.

Russia claims that the Lomonosov ridge (a submarine mountain chain) connects to Russian continental shelf and runs across the pole and have thus claimed an enormous chunk of the Arctic Ocean. They put a submarine flag on the geographic pole to support their claims. Trust but verify carefully is the law that applies to Russian claims.

If this proves to be so, there will a lot of territory in dispute. If they are wrong (or simply lying) about the connection then they are pushing bogus territorial claims to an enormous area with immense resources including fish, sea mammals, minerals, and transportation routes.

As you can see from the map, Canada has mapped a very large area of continental shelf contiguous with it's existing claims based on similar grounds.

The US could not claim this continental shelf as it doesn't touch US continental shelf off Alaska. Either Canada gets it or nobody does. With the Russians claiming a vast area of the Arctic, they might get that as well.

The US has no direct interest in the Canadian claim as the dispute between countries is about exclusive economic zones, which applies closer to shore than continental shelf limits.

It is probably for the best of all that Canadian's claim is granted because any resources not under the control of one country or another can lead to problems in the orphaned territory--freedom of the sea, environmental damage, etc.

As for what "holds up" this claim, it's mostly law. Canada is not powerful enough to keep the Russians and Chinese out or the Americans either. Canada's territory has been violated before simply because it is so remote and vast. There's really no practical way to watch every square kilometer of sea or land for submarines, aircraft, and surface ships, let alone dog teams and pedestrians (on skis or whatever).

But the US and Russia have the same problem. They can "invade" each other's Arctic territories with stealth or blatancy and claims that they're just doing legitimate mapping or scientific work. Just law keeps the superpowers in line and that is far from infallible but they do have to consider public opinion from the world at large.

China can't claim any territory in the Arctic so it may play a major role in keeping the seaways open and preventing the Arctic from becoming a closed sea, a sort of mare nostrum for the handful of countries that border it. The EU has a major interest but Iceland, Norway, Denmark (Greenland) and the UK have much smaller stakes than the US, Canada and in international waters.

In the end, Canada's territorial claims stand as long as the superpowers don't say, What the Hell, let's drink Canada dry! But that is true of every country in the world:  power is power, influence, influence, but law and logic don't count for much when interest prevails.
2013-12-02 01:01:40 PM  
1 votes:
upload.wikimedia.org

I don't get it.  They already owned all three attack vectors into Greenland and they can have access to Russia over Sara Palin's cold dead body.

No...seriously.  You take care of that for us, and the state's yours.   Really.
2013-12-02 12:04:22 PM  
1 votes:

BitwiseShift: Greenland is Danish?


Yes. The US tried to buy it from Denmark after WWII, but they didn't want to sell.
2013-12-02 11:28:14 AM  
1 votes:

jshine: Valiente: Who needs nukes or navies when you have the Big Red Button?

What do you think the Big Red Button is connected to?


StaplesTM?
2013-12-02 11:21:34 AM  
1 votes:

Krieghund: jshine: trapped-in-CH: Years ago Russia used one of their submarines to drop a flag on the ocean bed at the North Pole. Think Santa was Canadian? Nope. Russian now

Meh, it's just publicity -- like the American flags on the moon.  It doesn't really mean anything, but it makes for some good chest-thumping.

Say that again when all you get for Christmas are Babushka scarves and matryoshka dolls.



Soon.  Yes, soon, you will not know the difference.

www.burnoutitaly.com
3.bp.blogspot.com
2013-12-02 10:54:31 AM  
1 votes:
Pfft. Harper will get sovereignty over those territories and immediately flip them to mining extraction companies and oil companies, who can benefit from gutted environmental regulations.
2013-12-02 10:42:38 AM  
1 votes:
An Arctic area three times the size of Texas...

So, Alaska?
2013-12-02 10:39:25 AM  
1 votes:
I may disagree with Harper on most of his policy nowadays, but one thing he's always been strong on (at least in the arctic, don't get me started on the TPP) is supporting and enforcing Canadian Sovereignty.  I am far from an expert, but Canada needs to make these claims and push back, because the Russians aren't afraid of making bold moves to claim the territory.  and who knows what kind of resources are available up there?  Not to mention the Northwest passage (although this is an entirely different matter).  Years ago Russia used one of their submarines to drop a flag on the ocean bed at the North Pole.  Think Santa was Canadian?  Nope.  Russian now.  And they've made claims that the Russian continental shelf extended far beyond the north pole.  Essentially annexing all that seafloor for their own.
2013-12-02 10:06:37 AM  
1 votes:

SpectreJCB: Jim_Callahan: Isn't making an ocean claim that far out from your own coastline somewhat problematic international-law-wise?

I mean, I don't think anyone's going to actively contest this, so there's an element of "who cares" there, but I'm a bit curious if theyre actually expecting this to hold up.

It's actually some crazy thing from the UN that allow you to claim ocean space based on where the continental shelf ends, versus the coastline.

They've spent 5 years on the geological study to make the claim, and it'll probably take twice as long for the UN to analyze and approve that, provided there are no counter-claims from Russia or the US.

Really, we're claiming a bunch of ice and water in one of the more inhospitable places on the planet.  Look out seals and polar bars.. the canucks are coming!!


Which, due to climate change and melting icecaps, is due to become a major shipping lane.  The US is actually disputing our claim to our internal waters, arguing that all the channels between our Arctic islands aren't really ours.  Apparently anyplace an American wants to send a ship is American waters.
2013-12-02 10:00:43 AM  
1 votes:

vudukungfu: 3x the size of Texas?
What is that in terms of Rhode Islands?


And how many football fields?  NFL or CFL?
2013-12-02 09:57:46 AM  
1 votes:
What's all that oil doing under my ice, eh?
2013-12-02 09:56:30 AM  
1 votes:
This article is useless without maps
2013-12-02 09:55:30 AM  
1 votes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_claims_in_the_Arctic

www.webcitation.org

It only starts with maganese nodules, biatches. It ends with this:

www.cgsociety.org
2013-12-02 09:53:16 AM  
1 votes:

Jim_Callahan: Isn't making an ocean claim that far out from your own coastline somewhat problematic international-law-wise?

I mean, I don't think anyone's going to actively contest this, so there's an element of "who cares" there, but I'm a bit curious if theyre actually expecting this to hold up.


It's actually some crazy thing from the UN that allow you to claim ocean space based on where the continental shelf ends, versus the coastline.

They've spent 5 years on the geological study to make the claim, and it'll probably take twice as long for the UN to analyze and approve that, provided there are no counter-claims from Russia or the US.

Really, we're claiming a bunch of ice and water in one of the more inhospitable places on the planet.  Look out seals and polar bars.. the canucks are coming!!
2013-12-02 09:49:57 AM  
1 votes:
Fortunately, the US has a Strategic Maple Syrup Reserve in case we have to impose an embargo.  The Department of Defense can disperse the reserve to the IHOPs and Waffle Houses with a simple order from the President.

Don't forget all the potential hostages that we have here, as well.  Comedians, newscasters, singers, and thousands upon thousands of minor league hockey players.
2013-12-02 08:15:25 AM  
1 votes:
They can have it.

And Texas too if they want it.
2013-12-02 08:12:06 AM  
1 votes:

images2.wikia.nocookie.net

It's the only solution

 
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