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(Slate)   Some believe the path to immortality is through their work; others, their children. Then there's this computer-scientist/inventor who believes he has an 80% chance of achieving it by not ever dying   (slate.com) divider line 140
    More: Interesting, Ray Kurzweil, cheat death, old humans, emerging technologies, paths, inventors  
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5498 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Dec 2013 at 3:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-12-01 12:31:45 PM  
hands up who's never heard of Ray Kurzweil? just curious.

TFA missed the bit where in a bid to slow aging and function at peak capacity he takes 150 supplements a day, which he employs an assistant to manage. he is looking pretty good for 65.
 
2013-12-01 12:53:10 PM  
QA?  Is that you?
 
2013-12-01 01:53:31 PM  

the801: hands up who's never heard of Ray Kurzweil? just curious.

TFA missed the bit where in a bid to slow aging and function at peak capacity he takes 150 supplements a day, which he employs an assistant to manage. he is looking pretty good for 65.


Kurzweil is a pretty big name for anyone who follows computing/tech news, and he's been going on and on about this singularity business for a long time.  Who knows, maybe there's something to it, but we still have a lot to learn about what consciousness and sentience actually are and how it works.  There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.
 
2013-12-01 02:00:09 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.


Well, yeah.  Trees don't even HAVE brains.
 
2013-12-01 03:07:02 PM  
beyondmediaonline.com

What's he got in his swimming pool?
 
2013-12-01 03:28:16 PM  
My life isn't shiatty, and I don't hate myself, but living forever sounds awful.
 
2013-12-01 03:32:36 PM  

Calmamity: My life isn't shiatty, and I don't hate myself, but living forever sounds awful.


I'll take whatever you don't wanna use.  I'd be quite happy with being able to pick whenever I felt like checking out.
 
2013-12-01 03:40:35 PM  
That's my point. I'm going to use it all up.
 
2013-12-01 03:44:40 PM  
Glad I wont be around when this technology is perfected and implemented.
The immortal ruling elite will no longer have any use for the unwashed masses.
 
2013-12-01 03:47:53 PM  
Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...
 
2013-12-01 03:57:57 PM  
Fallacy:  Appeal to Authority
 
2013-12-01 04:03:58 PM  
.

Damn thing is still too far away for most to see it. Would be one of the solutions to interstellar travel, but we would at least need FTL communication or humanity would fracture across the stars.
 
2013-12-01 04:10:43 PM  

Tax Boy: [beyondmediaonline.com image 400x226]

What's he got in his swimming pool?


I'll tell you what he doesn't have in there:  3D printers.

"I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even five hundred would be pretty nice."
CEO Nwabudike Morgan, Morganlink 3D-Vision Interview
 
2013-12-01 04:20:11 PM  
"I don't want to achieve immortality through my work... I want to achieve it through not dying." ~Woody Allen
 
2013-12-01 04:20:50 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.


Why?
 
2013-12-01 04:23:56 PM  
What we really need to decide is what kind of Singularly race we will be. Don't want to end up like some of the science fiction examples.
 
2013-12-01 04:27:08 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: TuteTibiImperes: There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.

Why?


It just seems like there would be.  When you think about perception, consciousness, sentience, etc, your entire concept of self and existence, and the fundamental aspects of life it just seems right that there's some force beyond the basic biology that exists.  I don't have any training in neuroscience, and I could be completely wrong, but I do believe there is a 'soul' or inherent essence that is part of who we are.

That being said, the world soul is tricky because it obviously immediately brings up religious connotations, and I'm not saying that any particular religion is correct on that matter, but if we were able to create a computer program that modeled the human brain exactly, and transferred all of the data from a brain to that program perfectly, I don't believe that the person's consciousness would suddenly transfer into that program.
 
2013-12-01 04:28:41 PM  

mrlewish: Fallacy:  Appeal to Authority


The second law of thermodynamics is more of a guideline than a rule, but the way animal life gets around it is by constantly reintroducing variation by sexual reproduction. Plus, the ironic death of people like this is a source of constant sport and satisfaction for the universe.
 
2013-12-01 04:30:07 PM  

mrlewish: Fallacy:  Appeal to Unqualified Authority


Fixed.

Appeal to Qualified Authority isn't a fallacy.
 
2013-12-01 04:31:58 PM  

whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...


Methuselah lived 969 years.

principlesforlifeministries.files.wordpress.com
 
2013-12-01 04:31:59 PM  
Follow up: guy who thought he was going to live forever dies. Not a repeat from always.
 
2013-12-01 04:34:56 PM  
img.photobucket.com

img.photobucket.com
Peter Bogdonovich?
 
2013-12-01 04:37:11 PM  
that's one thing that wears some of the Wealthy out.  they can buy eveything except immortality and that drives them bonkers.   they rarely ever hear the word 'no'.


course, they don't mind having tax money spent to find the fountain of youth.  not that anyone else could afford it if it was found.
 
2013-12-01 04:38:49 PM  
Kurzweil is a kook.

The idea that we can stop the aging process, or even reverse it, is still science-fiction. We're a LONG way away from that. He won't live to see it.

He's one of those people that doesn't really understand that this stuff takes an INSANE amount of research/discovery to achieve. Or at least, he ignores that fact, because it means he is going to die like the rest of us.

Just because we are able to manipulate genes a little bit, doesn't mean we are close to immortality. That's like saying because I can talk to Siri on my iPhone and get relevant answers, that a working Artificial Intelligence is just around the corner. It's not that simple. Not at all.
 
2013-12-01 04:38:53 PM  
want immortality?   become a republican.  they have a knack for seemingly hanging around forever.

or at least what seems like forever.
 
2013-12-01 04:39:41 PM  
The way I see it is this.

When you're asleep, you're not aware of it.  Hell, you're not aware of falling asleep, until after you wake up and think about it for a bit.

Why is dying any different?  Once you've died, it's not like you're going to be sitting back and thinking "Damn, now I'm dead.  That sucks."  You just won't exist anymore, just like in all that time before you were born.
 
2013-12-01 04:41:00 PM  

Mister Peejay: Why is dying any different? Once you've died, it's not like you're going to be sitting back and thinking "Damn, now I'm dead. That sucks." You just won't exist anymore, just like in all that time before you were born.


And I do not remember enjoying that time one bit.
 
2013-12-01 04:41:55 PM  
Quick, someone mention 3D printing and get QA to this thread STAT!
 
2013-12-01 04:43:52 PM  
When it comes to computer based artificial intelligence and the like; unless you *can* do it already, you can't.

This guy is making the exact same claims the best and brightest were making in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s.  The first generation of Computer Scientists that made any progress started grossly over-selling what would be accomplished and it's been cyclical ever since.  It becomes trendy, the do some research, get more funding, make wild claims....make no real progress....and kind of fade into the background.  Some years later, rinse, repeat.
 
2013-12-01 04:45:02 PM  

the801: hands up who's never heard of Ray Kurzweil? just curious.

TFA missed the bit where in a bid to slow aging and function at peak capacity he takes 150 supplements a day, which he employs an assistant to manage. he is looking pretty good for 65.


Not really. My dad is his age and looks better (and he drinks and smokes cigars). He is a fool to pursue this and will never achieve immortality through Google or vitamins.
 
2013-12-01 04:46:32 PM  

whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...


It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.
 
2013-12-01 04:49:25 PM  

SomethingToDo: mrlewish: Fallacy:  Appeal to Authority

The second law of thermodynamics is more of a guideline than a rule, but the way animal life gets around it is by constantly reintroducing variation by sexual reproduction. Plus, the ironic death of people like this is a source of constant sport and satisfaction for the universe.


Actually, we get around the Second Law by using energy from the giant ball of incandescent plasma 150 million km away.

Which isn't really getting around it at all.
 
2013-12-01 04:52:10 PM  

Nemo's Brother: whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...

It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.


It makes sense - if you believe that when you die that it's lights out and nothing more, that's pretty scary.  If you believe there's an afterlife, or that you'll be reincarnated and live again, it's substantially less scary.
 
2013-12-01 04:57:41 PM  

Nemo's Brother: whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...

It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.


Painting with an awfully broad brush there, ain't ya skippy?

I knew of a tbeist that killed someone. It's amazing how all theists are killers
 
2013-12-01 05:10:15 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.


why?
 
2013-12-01 05:12:05 PM  
I watched a documentary on Kurzweil once. What I took away from it wasn't so much that he wants to live forever, but that he is really, really terrified of dying. He was traumatized by the death of his father, and a big part of his Singularity work is to find a way to bring his father back to life, or at least create a virtual consciousness using his memories of his father.

I am doubtful that the Singularity will happen in Kurzweil's lifetime (although- ceteris paribus- it will happen eventually). He needs to come to terms with his fear of death. He can choose to do so now of his own volition, or he can be forced to when death arrives. I'm betting it will be the latter.
 
2013-12-01 05:12:18 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nemo's Brother: whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...

It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.

It makes sense - if you believe that when you die that it's lights out and nothing more, that's pretty scary.  If you believe there's an afterlife, or that you'll be reincarnated and live again, it's substantially less scary.


Then how come every funeral I go to, it's the religious ones who are the weepiest?
 
2013-12-01 05:29:50 PM  
50 years ago, Ray Kurzweil would have been considered a science fiction writer with some neat ideas, much like a Isaac Asimov, a Ray Bradbury or an Arthur C. Clarke. But instead, he gets titles today like "renowned scientist," "futurist" and "inventor."

The truth of the matter is that Kurzweil doesn't understand a lot of the science that he cites, and he's not that different from Deepak Chopra in the way he takes ideas that are grounded in reality and then mixes then with his own thinking, but presents both as if they're absolutely true and founded in research. Many real scientists have called him out for this, and while it's a common consensus that he's a smart guy, there are good reasons to be skeptical of him.

I recently read Michio Kaku's  Physics of the Future and rolled my eyes through a lot of the chapter on human longevity whenever the idea that "we might be the last generation who will die" came up. That sort of stuff sounds great, but it's not founded in the science that's currently being undertaken. It's likely that we'll find ways to extend human lifespans significantly within this century, but chances are good it's going to be more of a "reverse the cosmetic effects of aging and keep organs from failing" sort of thing, not a "never die" scenario.

Plus, I'd argue most human beings don't need a longer life, given what they're doing with the one they currently have. Nature designed us to live for a set amount of time and then to die for many good reasons. Overpopulation is one such problem, but there's also the need for our genetics to continue to grow and evolve rather than to remain stagnant. I tend to think societies also need to have frequent change in leadership and thinking, and that only happens when the older generations die off and leave the newer ones in control.
 
2013-12-01 05:31:39 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nemo's Brother: whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...

It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.

It makes sense - if you believe that when you die that it's lights out and nothing more, that's pretty scary.  If you believe there's an afterlife, or that you'll be reincarnated and live again, it's substantially less scary.


I'm not afraid to die and I'm an atheist. *shrug*

I don't mean I'm thrilled about the prospect, but I'm at peace with it. The price of having life is death, simple as that. So I'm going to enjoy the hell out of what I have while I can.

I went through a period of mourning after I realized I was an atheist because I was sad that I wouldn't go to heaven and see my loved ones again, but I'm fine about it now.

I'm honestly much happier now that I'm not exerting all that mental energy on twisting logic to fit my religious beliefs and worrying about whether my ordinary life was good enough for God.

Back on topic though: I think this Kurzweil or whatever guy is blowing his life on something that will never happen, and it's sad. When I read this story it made me feel exactly the same way as when I see people on televised church services.
 
2013-12-01 05:46:08 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nemo's Brother: whither_apophis: Is he calculating the probabilty of his attempt at immortality offending religious fanatics who might consider it an offront to God and thus making it their mission to kill him?

/sorry, I tried parsing that down
//and I'm against any such action as well...

It's amazing how afraid to die atheists are, all the while reflecting their fear off on an imaginary religious conspiracy.

It makes sense - if you believe that when you die that it's lights out and nothing more, that's pretty scary.  If you believe there's an afterlife, or that you'll be reincarnated and live again, it's substantially less scary.


"First you have to know - not think, know - that some day, you will die.  Until you know that, you are useless."
 
2013-12-01 05:53:53 PM  
Cyrus Jones, 1810 to 1913, made his grandchildren believe you could live to 103. 103 is forever when you're just a little kid, so Cyrus Jones lived forever...
 
2013-12-01 06:00:19 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.com

I read the free sample from amazon -- too much backlog to read the book -- it looked interesting. Not just a sci-fi howto, also talks about the politics and ramifications of.
 
2013-12-01 06:02:56 PM  
Horcrux?
lh5.googleusercontent.com

Don't bother.
 
2013-12-01 06:03:56 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: ...if we were able to create a computer program that modeled the human brain exactly, and transferred all of the data from a brain to that program perfectly, I don't believe that the person's consciousness would suddenly transfer into that program.


I don't either, but for wholly different reasons.
 
2013-12-01 06:08:18 PM  
Seems about as delusional as believing in any form of afterlife.
 
2013-12-01 06:12:36 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: TuteTibiImperes: ...if we were able to create a computer program that modeled the human brain exactly, and transferred all of the data from a brain to that program perfectly, I don't believe that the person's consciousness would suddenly transfer into that program.

I don't either, but for wholly different reasons.


crtl + c, crtl +v, crtl + v, crtl + v

I'd take over the world with an army of me


/ organ printing is the way to go. The next step, anyways
 
2013-12-01 06:14:40 PM  

secularsage: The truth of the matter is that Kurzweil doesn't understand a lot of the science that he cites, and he's not that different from Deepak Chopra in the way he takes ideas that are grounded in reality and then mixes then with his own thinking, but presents both as if they're absolutely true and founded in research.


This. Chopra fleeces the MBAs, Kurzweil fleeces the PhDs.
 
2013-12-01 06:15:59 PM  

SomethingToDo: but the way animal life gets around it is by constantly reintroducing variation by sexual reproduction.


Technology would work as good or better.
 
2013-12-01 06:31:31 PM  
Eh, we have had the telomerase thing whipped in the lab for a long time, which was a big first step.  Do I think we are on the cusp of serious longevity - getting to 150, 200 years old without end stage dementia and bodies riddled with cancer?  Yes.  Will I personally be able to take advantage of these things?  At 37 years of age with a few minor ailments, probably not - but they may be available for Miss the Wombat's Girlfriend's kids.

Now, a computer based neural network to upload the old brainpan... that is a solid possibility, and may be how we arrive at functional AI - but I have doubts that the personality will remain intact.  There is too much interaction with how the brain functions, personal morality and our consciousness that we simply don't know the answers to.  Fascinating stuff, but right now we are at the spitwad stage.
 
2013-12-01 06:52:09 PM  

Ned Stark: TuteTibiImperes: There has to be more about what makes life than just the firing of neurons in the brain.

why?


He already answered this. He desperately wants it to be true so he just believes it is true. Can't explain that.
 
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