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(ABC)   Ukrainian Revolution 2: Drunken Boogaloo   (abcnews.go.com) divider line 36
    More: Interesting, riot police, President Viktor Yanukovych, hand grenades, presidential administrations  
•       •       •

1183 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Dec 2013 at 12:27 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2013-12-01 11:50:42 AM  
They aren't drunk subby. This is a popular uprising against a Ukrainian government that is controlled by the Russian dictator Putin. The people of Ukraine want to be closer to Europe where there is at least the idea of freedom, unlike Russia's police state.
 
2013-12-01 12:32:08 PM  
Seriously.

At least ONE of the links about this from the past two days was finally greened.
 
2013-12-01 12:40:32 PM  
Only drunk Ukrainians would want to leave booming Russia for bankrupt EU
 
2013-12-01 12:43:02 PM  
Free Princess Leia!
 
2013-12-01 12:45:08 PM  

LewDux: Only drunk Ukrainians would want to leave booming Russia for bankrupt EU


It's quite the pickle.

Russia does have too much control over Ukraine though. While Putin is making the better political decisions than the EU, he's also an authoritarian who'll destroy anything in his way.
 
2013-12-01 12:47:35 PM  

Mrbogey: While Putin is making the better political decisions than the EU, he's also an authoritarian who'll destroy anything in his way.


And he wrestles bears, so he's got that going for him, too.
 
2013-12-01 12:50:01 PM  

LewDux: Only drunk Ukrainians would want to leave booming Russia for bankrupt EU


img.fark.net
 
2013-12-01 12:54:24 PM  

Heliovdrake: LewDux: Only drunk Ukrainians would want to leave booming Russia for bankrupt EU

[img.fark.net image 604x197]


What point are you trying to prove here?
 
2013-12-01 01:03:50 PM  

Heliovdrake: LewDux: Only drunk Ukrainians would want to leave booming Russia for bankrupt EU


I figured Lew was just being sarcastic.
 
2013-12-01 01:19:22 PM  
At least Vitaly Klitschko is in place as part of the solution. He has punched numerous people for money, he should be a solid voice of thought and reason.
 
2013-12-01 01:25:16 PM  

WTF Indeed: They aren't drunk subby. This is a popular uprising against a Ukrainian government that is controlled by the Russian dictator Putin. The people of Ukraine want to be closer to Europe where there is at least the idea of freedom, unlike Russia's police state.


I agree with everything you said except your first point. They are most certainly drunk. Not all the time, but definitely most of the time.
 
2013-12-01 01:27:11 PM  
came for pussy riot and femen photos.

leaving disappointed
 
2013-12-01 01:40:49 PM  
FTFA:

Kiev Riot Police Use Gas, Truncheons on Protesters


Wrong.....the correct word is trebuchet.
 
2013-12-01 01:52:39 PM  

The_Sponge: FTFA:

Kiev Riot Police Use Gas, Truncheons on Protesters


Wrong.....the correct word is trebuchet.


I didn't realize they had escalated from simple clubs to advanced siege weaponry over the course of just a few riots.

Those are some hardcore cops.
 
2013-12-01 02:11:33 PM  
They used a front end loader to try and breach the presidential administration building? Damn, they'd be breaking out the tanks if this happened in the American police state.
 
2013-12-01 02:17:33 PM  

Zeno-25: They used a front end loader to try and breach the presidential administration building? Damn, they'd be breaking out the tanks if this happened in the American police state.


I'm sure that if they did try to deploy tanks, they would have been sold for scrap and spare parts after 40 yards. Probably by the drivers.
 
2013-12-01 03:00:46 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: The_Sponge: FTFA:

Kiev Riot Police Use Gas, Truncheons on Protesters


Wrong.....the correct word is trebuchet.

I didn't realize they had escalated from simple clubs to advanced siege weaponry over the course of just a few riots.

Those are some hardcore cops.



Heh.

/Was making a reference to a long departed Farker who mixed up the two terms.
 
2013-12-01 03:25:28 PM  
What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.
 
2013-12-01 03:38:18 PM  

Infernalist: What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.


Don't you mean "European agents"?
 
2013-12-01 03:39:20 PM  

LewDux: Infernalist: What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.

Don't you mean "European agents"?


Joint effort, maybe.
 
2013-12-01 03:48:28 PM  

Infernalist: LewDux: Infernalist: What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.

Don't you mean "European agents"?

Joint effort, maybe.


Yeah, "most likely"
 
2013-12-01 03:49:47 PM  

Infernalist: LewDux: Infernalist: What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.

Don't you mean "European agents"?

Joint effort, maybe.


What if it is not government based? The Ukraine uses plenty of oil that they buy from Russia right now. I could see some western oil companies wanting a piece of that pie.
 
2013-12-01 03:55:31 PM  

gozar_the_destroyer: Infernalist: LewDux: Infernalist: What's funny about this is that it's most likely being encouraged by American agents in their resistance movement.  Because, honestly, screw Putin.

Don't you mean "European agents"?

Joint effort, maybe.

What if it is not government based? The Ukraine uses plenty of oil that they buy from Russia right now. I could see some western oil companies wanting a piece of that pie.


Same thing

scienceblogs.com
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2013-12-01 04:07:53 PM  
The real problem here is that more than 2/3rds of the country is linguistically and ethnically Ukrainian. Nearly a third of the country however is ethnically Russian and speaks Russian. Some were already there before the Soviet Union, but many were transplanted from Russia as part of a policy that began under the Czars and got sped up to industrial scale by the Soviets called "Russification".

The pro-Western "Orange" faction is dominated entirely by ethnic Ukrainians. The further Ukraine moves towards the West the more the Russian minority fears that they will be left unprotected by Mama Bear. Therefore Russia continues to interfere with the governments in the Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, and everywhere else they forcibly or non-forcibly moved Russians to breed out and colonize their neighbors.

So I really doubt Europe or the US have anything to do with the riots really. Maybe the first ones that pushed out an actual Russian puppet regime, but the current one was elected through generally free and fair elections. Its governing style however has slipped slightly back into the role of Russian satellite state. The thing thats making it worse this time is that what we are seeing is as much ethnically driven as politically.

Unfortunately when those two things combine in the former Soviet republics/ client states we thus far have gotten some pretty bad results, See Yugoslavia (Bosnian War, Serbo-Croatian War, Kosovar War), Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia (South Ossetian War). But the Ukraine would be either be the most speedily resolved or a bloodbath of biblical proportions drawing in Europe on the Ukrainian side and Russia on the side of Ukrainian ethnic Russians.
 
2013-12-01 04:34:28 PM  
Police is being pretty brutal there right now:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eflRkjecks

//Ukrainian, family still there.
 
2013-12-01 04:48:08 PM  
Russia is cronyism taken to the extreme.  Putin is a thug who is destroying not just Russia, but all the bordering countries.  A leader of a country that would cozy up to Russia is, by definition, a corrupt asshole who needs to be put against a wall and shot.
 
2013-12-01 04:50:59 PM  
"Our plan is clear: It's not a demonstration, it's not a reaction. It's a revolution,"

The Ukraine has been brutally controlled by Russia for far too long and the people have had enough.

I think this may be real. I wish them luck. There will be more blood, of course.
 
2013-12-01 05:00:24 PM  
Streams

Link
Link
 
2013-12-01 05:30:27 PM  
 
2013-12-01 10:06:32 PM  

zyrian: More riot police fun:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWNdeRtBmWA


Peaceful demonstrations met with truncheons. Why should the authoritarians have a monopoly on violence?

I'd come wearing Kevlar with Molotov coctails for when the thugs form their phalanx.

/itg
 
2013-12-02 02:16:43 AM  

Pubby: The real problem here is that more than 2/3rds of the country is linguistically and ethnically Ukrainian. Nearly a third of the country however is ethnically Russian and speaks Russian. Some were already there before the Soviet Union, but many were transplanted from Russia as part of a policy that began under the Czars and got sped up to industrial scale by the Soviets called "Russification".

The pro-Western "Orange" faction is dominated entirely by ethnic Ukrainians. The further Ukraine moves towards the West the more the Russian minority fears that they will be left unprotected by Mama Bear. Therefore Russia continues to interfere with the governments in the Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, and everywhere else they forcibly or non-forcibly moved Russians to breed out and colonize their neighbors.

So I really doubt Europe or the US have anything to do with the riots really. Maybe the first ones that pushed out an actual Russian puppet regime, but the current one was elected through generally free and fair elections. Its governing style however has slipped slightly back into the role of Russian satellite state. The thing thats making it worse this time is that what we are seeing is as much ethnically driven as politically.

Unfortunately when those two things combine in the former Soviet republics/ client states we thus far have gotten some pretty bad results, See Yugoslavia (Bosnian War, Serbo-Croatian War, Kosovar War), Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia (South Ossetian War). But the Ukraine would be either be the most speedily resolved or a bloodbath of biblical proportions drawing in Europe on the Ukrainian side and Russia on the side of Ukrainian ethnic Russians.


I'd also add that historically, Russia has defended itself by running like hell and waiting for winter.

If Ukraine pulls itself out of the Russian Sphere of Influence, Russia will have lost ~2000 Km of breathing room since 1989, and "enemy" troops will be 400 KM from Stalingrad Volgograd and Russian Control of the Caucasus.

It's the rough equivalent of Canada declaring themselves for global Communism at the height of the Cold War.
 
2013-12-02 03:02:54 AM  
Half a million people (500,000) took to the streets in defiance of the government ban on protests.  The people are protesting in favor of the EU and against Russia.  This will not end well if Russia gets involved.  Russia has a brutal history when it comes to protests against their rule (see 1956 Hungary for one example).  Putin is a thug.  I doubt he would have any moral issues with killing a whole lot of people, especially when they are not Russians (though I'm sure he would kill Russians just as easily).

I expect one of two results.  Either the government falls and the Ukraine joins the EU as planned, or there is a brutal crushing of what has the makings of a revolution.  If the latter, expect a whole lot of sternly written letters from around the world, but nothing will change.  No one wants to stand up to Russia.  An economic embargo would cripple them, but too many countries would see it as an opportunity to make a lot of money, so that would fail.
 
2013-12-02 10:38:22 AM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: came for pussy riot and femen photos.

leaving disappointed


Femmen is flaming dudes against the gheys...what are you afflicted with teh bi? NTTIAWWT
 
2013-12-02 10:40:16 AM  

dababler: Vlad_the_Inaner: came for pussy riot and femen photos.

leaving disappointed

Femmen is flaming dudes against the gheys...what are you afflicted with teh bi? NTTIAWWT


Wait maybe I'm thinking of hommen? These radical non American groups get confusing to this leftist American that wouldn't know how to participate in a large scale protest (and wouldn't for fear of jerks like pepper spray cop) nor would he know how to start one.
 
2013-12-02 12:07:07 PM  

meyerkev: Pubby: The real problem here is that more than 2/3rds of the country is linguistically and ethnically Ukrainian. Nearly a third of the country however is ethnically Russian and speaks Russian. Some were already there before the Soviet Union, but many were transplanted from Russia as part of a policy that began under the Czars and got sped up to industrial scale by the Soviets called "Russification".

The pro-Western "Orange" faction is dominated entirely by ethnic Ukrainians. The further Ukraine moves towards the West the more the Russian minority fears that they will be left unprotected by Mama Bear. Therefore Russia continues to interfere with the governments in the Ukraine, Estonia, Belarus, Georgia, Latvia, Lithuania, and everywhere else they forcibly or non-forcibly moved Russians to breed out and colonize their neighbors.

So I really doubt Europe or the US have anything to do with the riots really. Maybe the first ones that pushed out an actual Russian puppet regime, but the current one was elected through generally free and fair elections. Its governing style however has slipped slightly back into the role of Russian satellite state. The thing thats making it worse this time is that what we are seeing is as much ethnically driven as politically.

Unfortunately when those two things combine in the former Soviet republics/ client states we thus far have gotten some pretty bad results, See Yugoslavia (Bosnian War, Serbo-Croatian War, Kosovar War), Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia (South Ossetian War). But the Ukraine would be either be the most speedily resolved or a bloodbath of biblical proportions drawing in Europe on the Ukrainian side and Russia on the side of Ukrainian ethnic Russians.

I'd also add that historically, Russia has defended itself by running like hell and waiting for winter.

If Ukraine pulls itself out of the Russian Sphere of Influence, Russia will have lost ~2000 Km of breathing room since 1989, and "enemy" troops will be 400 KM from Stalingrad Volgograd and Russian Control of the Caucasus.

It's the rough equivalent of Canada declaring themselves for global Communism at the height of the Cold War.


RE: Russian Winter

You could argue though, historically the Russians ran for the hills when their invading opponent had a leg up on them. When the Germans rolled through in 1941, Stalin had decimated the officer corps of the Red Army during the purges and (I would imagine) felt "safe" due to Molotov-Ribbentrop.

But I digress. Putin has showed us that he is not afraid to send troops to get what he wants, e.g., the excursion into Georgia. That was ugly, this may be worse.

A friend of mine has family in eastern Ukraine. He says while they would rather be a part of Russia, they aren't willing to see fellow Ukrainians die for that to happen.

Meanwhile, my very Croatian father has a deep simmering hatred for the Russians, mostly due to Serbian shenanigans.
 
2013-12-02 10:32:59 PM  

Pubby: See Yugoslavia


Yugoslavia was not a soviet client state, they had their own communism there but had terrible relations with the USSR and in fact almost ended up at war with the USSR.
 
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