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(Heritage Daily)   What have the Romans ever done for us, apart from the aqueduct, the sanitation, the roads, particle physics - wait, what?   (heritagedaily.com) divider line 27
    More: Interesting, Particle Physics, neutrinos, dark matter, aqueducts, shipwrecks, sanitation, University of Birmingham, water tanks  
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4148 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Dec 2013 at 8:40 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2013-12-01 08:58:57 AM  
Dear archaeologists,

They are just lumps of lead. Please explain why they are important as "cultural heritage" items. Merely stating that they are old doesn't cut it.

Yours,

Everyone who didn't turn a hobby into a profession that mainly produces trivia.
 
2013-12-01 08:59:47 AM  
Old lead dug up thousands of years ago is being used today. Its helping us find neutrinos, hoping to find evidence of dark matter. There, you don't need to click the link.
 
2013-12-01 09:12:00 AM  

Dedmon: Old lead dug up thousands of years ago is being used today. Its helping us find neutrinos, hoping to find evidence of dark matter. There, you don't need to click the link.


You forgot to add:

It's being used instead of lead mined today because it sat under sea water for 2,000 years and now all of its Pb 200 has decayed into non radioactive isotopes. Recently mined lead still has those, and isn't suitable for use due to radioactive contamination.

/ also, technically the lead from cathedral ceilings and windows also could used.
 
2013-12-01 09:30:53 AM  
If I remember correctly Lucretius thought that matter was made up of tiny little bits. And he wrote about it poetically. Maybe science should be written in verse, that might be fun.

Dark matter is weird,
it may be in a farker's neck beard.
It gives the hair some mass,
Making it kind of bad ass.
It may have been in a Cheeto,
but we ate them all and will never know.
 
2013-12-01 09:33:57 AM  
I love old artifacts, but I don't think we necessarily need to preserve literally EVERYTHING old.  These would do nothing but sit on a shelf or in a drawer somewhere unless they're used.
 
2013-12-01 09:46:58 AM  
"they are protected by UNESCO's 2001 Convention on the protection of underwater cultural heritage if they have been under water more than 10 years"

Ten years under water is all it takes for something to become "cultural heritage"?
 
2013-12-01 09:47:15 AM  
Brought peace?

/They certainly like to keep order.
//Only ones who could in a place like this.
///Oh...SHUT UP.
 
2013-12-01 09:58:00 AM  
They are lead bricks. Not manuscripts, or anything like that. We won't learn anything from the study of these bricks besides their use in neutrino detectors. Find whatever little country is claiming these waters, pay them whatever amount they thing they would get by selling salvage rights to a roman wreck, and this "problem" probably goes away.
 
2013-12-01 10:27:50 AM  

DerAppie: They are just lumps of lead.


As long as they have no historically significant shape, markings or writings on them then most definitely ....

THIS!
 
2013-12-01 10:30:47 AM  

knight_on_the_rail: If I remember correctly Lucretius thought that matter was made up of tiny little bits. And he wrote about it poetically. Maybe science should be written in verse, that might be fun.


Yah. Atomic theory in 50 BC.
 
2013-12-01 10:57:54 AM  

Majick Thise: DerAppie: They are just lumps of lead.

As long as they have no historically significant shape, markings or writings on them then most definitely ....

THIS!


Actually, they're more than 'just' lumps of lead. They're lumps of lead with an added scientific value. Which is something of a feat, considering they're done nothing but sit there for 2,000 years.
 
2013-12-01 11:04:14 AM  

whistleridge: Majick Thise: DerAppie: They are just lumps of lead.

As long as they have no historically significant shape, markings or writings on them then most definitely ....

THIS!

Actually, they're more than 'just' lumps of lead. They're lumps of lead with an added scientific value. Which is something of a feat, considering they're done nothing but sit there for 2,000 years.


Exactly! They are old and pure, cleaner than current lead. The point is they have no historical significance, yet some whiners are trying to keep them from being used for their added scientific value because romans once touched them. Romans once sailed the Med as well ...QUICK remove all boats from the Med immediately!
 
2013-12-01 11:35:29 AM  
If the Roman stuff doesn't work out, there's a pile of pre-Atomic Age German-engineered metalwork at the bottom of Scapa Flow that might have some lead in it.
 
2013-12-01 12:07:42 PM  

Bondith: If the Roman stuff doesn't work out, there's a pile of pre-Atomic Age German-engineered metalwork at the bottom of Scapa Flow that might have some lead in it.


It's not about nuclear age contamination, it's that there's a trace of Pb-210 in natural deposits. So you take the lead out and refine it, then Pb-210 can't work its way into the solid metal. Then you go 22 years per half life and that Roman era stuff can be assumed to have no Pb-210. WW2 era lead has much more Pb-210 than even Napoleonic lead.
 
2013-12-01 12:28:35 PM  

wildcardjack: Bondith: If the Roman stuff doesn't work out, there's a pile of pre-Atomic Age German-engineered metalwork at the bottom of Scapa Flow that might have some lead in it.

It's not about nuclear age contamination, it's that there's a trace of Pb-210 in natural deposits. So you take the lead out and refine it, then Pb-210 can't work its way into the solid metal. Then you go 22 years per half life and that Roman era stuff can be assumed to have no Pb-210. WW2 era lead has much more Pb-210 than even Napoleonic lead.


Hmmm, interesting.  Same concept as U-Pb dating in rocks: once it's no longer molten, there's no more flow of material in or out.

It's been about 5 half-lives since the High Seas Fleet was built, which means 1/32 remains, but cosmic ray measurements are finicky.  There's a neutrino observatory built under 2km of ancient, very low-radioactive rock to shield it from everything that isn't the sun's neutrinos.
 
2013-12-01 12:51:08 PM  
img.pandawhale.com
 
2013-12-01 01:02:02 PM  
So, question. Why does the radio isotope decay out after the lead has been mined but not before?
 
2013-12-01 02:34:47 PM  

miniflea: So, question. Why does the radio isotope decay out after the lead has been mined but not before?


It's a good neutron absorber. When it sits in the ground it's good at soaking up the radiation from the ore that it's mined from.
 
2013-12-01 03:12:45 PM  
fark off, archaeologists. Real scientists are working.
 
2013-12-01 03:17:29 PM  
Hey kids, get ready to go to the museum and look at the old Roman ballast weights!

But in all seriousness, if we take high resolution scans of these weights, and save the better preserved examples on the off chance that there's something important we're missing, why not melt down the crappy ones to further scientific inquiry.
 
2013-12-01 03:37:09 PM  

grokca:


It belongs in a machine!
 
2013-12-01 05:43:14 PM  
 
2013-12-01 06:02:03 PM  

SansNeural: "they are protected by UNESCO's 2001 Convention on the protection of underwater cultural heritage if they have been under water more than 10 years"

Ten years under water is all it takes for something to become "cultural heritage"?


Then don't you think Glenn Beck should come clean about that 'cultural heritage' he raped and murdered in 1990?


/sorry
 
2013-12-01 06:09:31 PM  
These Romans are crazy.
fc07.deviantart.net
 
2013-12-01 10:26:07 PM  

DerAppie: Dear archaeologists,

They are just lumps of lead. Please explain why they are important as "cultural heritage" items. Merely stating that they are old doesn't cut it.

Yours,

Everyone who didn't turn a hobby into a profession that mainly produces trivia.


I'm sold. Bring on the dark age!

/they flavored wine with it
 
2013-12-02 02:41:51 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: DerAppie: Dear archaeologists,

They are just lumps of lead. Please explain why they are important as "cultural heritage" items. Merely stating that they are old doesn't cut it.

Yours,

Everyone who didn't turn a hobby into a profession that mainly produces trivia.

I'm sold. Bring on the dark age!

/they flavored wine with it


Nice snark, but I do hope you understand that it isn't archaeologists who are keeping a new dark age at bay. Especially not the ones wanting to preserve an old lump of lead merely because it is old.
 
2013-12-02 01:36:05 PM  

knight_on_the_rail: If I remember correctly Lucretius thought that matter was made up of tiny little bits.


I thought it was Democritus that posited that first... cheers
 
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