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(Business Insider)   Job Creator (tax cuts be upon him) commits blasphemy, suggests tax cuts for Job Creators might not work, better off helping out something called a "middle class." Whatever that is   (businessinsider.com) divider line 267
    More: Obvious, middleclass  
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3200 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Nov 2013 at 6:15 AM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-30 04:24:35 AM
Henry Blodget... add him to the list of those conspiring against the GOP
 
2013-11-30 06:32:02 AM
"Police are baffled, saying that Blodget's death was caused by severe head wounds inflicted using at least ten *different* Faberge eggs."
 
2013-11-30 06:34:38 AM
The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.

The rich may employ people, but they don't "create jobs." The middle class creates jobs through creating demand, and jobs are created when companies are required to increase hiring to meet that demand.
 
2013-11-30 06:35:26 AM
So vote communist?

Or should I pick up a hatchet, axe, or saw...
 
2013-11-30 06:41:58 AM

Doc Daneeka: The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.


And easily disproven now in the time of record corporate profits. The best excuse they can come up with is "uncertainty" for why there is such low job growth.
 
2013-11-30 06:45:11 AM
thought experiment

assume that the job creators pay zero taxes

what jobs if any would/could be created
   (cost of doing business here is high)
 
2013-11-30 07:01:51 AM

Doc Daneeka: The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.

The rich may employ people, but they don't "create jobs." The middle class creates jobs through creating demand, and jobs are created when companies are required to increase hiring to meet that demand.


it's so crazy it might work. i was going to say it's obvious, but....well...you know...
 
2013-11-30 07:08:46 AM
I can't wait to read the comments section on that one.
 
2013-11-30 07:22:27 AM
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-07/raise-taxes-on-rich-to-re w ard-true-job-creators-nick-hanauer.html

'It's true that we do spend a lot more than the average family. Yet the one truly expensive line item in our budget is our airplane (which, by the way, was manufactured in France by Dassault Aviation SA), and those annual costs are mostly for fuel (from the Middle East). It's just crazy to believe that any of this is more beneficial to our economy than hiring more teachers or police officers or investing in our infrastructure.'

rookie
 
2013-11-30 07:37:49 AM

doczoidberg: I can't wait to read the comments section on that one.


The Masked Avenger guy is a hoot.

He has a 3 part plan to fix things that includes a flat tax, lowered capitol gains taxes and lowered corporate taxes.

He figures the only people noticing the increased wealth inequality and decrying it are sufferers of "liberal guilt".

Not sure if he's trolling or a true believer type or a paid shill but it's some derpy nonsense nonetheless.

In terms of the article, Blodget and Hanauer are quite right, the myth that the investment class are the job creators who need more tax cuts so they'll create more jobs needs to be taken out behind the barn and strangled.

It won't, of course, because of the overly consolidated, status quo maintaining, corporate-friendly media will push that line forever.

That noted, I think the more people who assert this simple truth the better.
 
2013-11-30 07:46:30 AM
The problem is if you give the middle class more money, they'll just save it in offshore accounts. You dind't really think they'll spend it here did you? The middle class is content to buy $280 walmart TVs, listen to free top 40 radio and watch free NCIS and The Big Bang Theory. If they actually went out and splurged and bought real cars like audis or bmws, maybe purchased a 2nd or 3rd vacation home, then we'd be in business.  But no, they'll be happy with their mediocre lives, and give give the extra money to charities who waste it on feeding poor people.Or they'll save it for their next generations and put it in offshore accounts to trickle down in countries not named America.
 
2013-11-30 07:46:53 AM

2and4: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-07/raise-taxes-on-rich-to-re w ard-true-job-creators-nick-hanauer.html

'It's true that we do spend a lot more than the average family. Yet the one truly expensive line item in our budget is our airplane (which, by the way, was manufactured in France by Dassault Aviation SA), and those annual costs are mostly for fuel (from the Middle East). It's just crazy to believe that any of this is more beneficial to our economy than hiring more teachers or police officers or investing in our infrastructure.'

rookie


But here's the thing: The Rich don't have to spend more than other families, they simply choose to, because they have the means to do so. They could live with the means of a less affluent family, but choose not to do so, enjoying the higher income they have. That's all fine, by the way, I don't blame them for that at all. It is simple human nature.

What bothers me is when some rich person says they should get tax cuts and other breaks because they pay so much more than another, less affluent family does in taxes. Yes, that's because you make more than they do, you moran! Plus, a family living on $60,000/year is not nearly as financially secure as one that lives on $600,000/yr, or $6,000,000/yr. They all have the same basic cost of living, but the family at the low end is barely getting by, whereas the other two example families would very easily meet their basic financial needs on their income, and can afford to live much more comfortably. that's why the rich are taxed more than other families... because they can afford it.
 
2013-11-30 07:47:58 AM

Yakk: Doc Daneeka: The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.

And easily disproven now in the time of record corporate profits. The best excuse they can come up with is "uncertainty" for why there is such low job growth.


Which is especially ironic because uncertainty comes from a Congress that is acting stupid. If businesses were told that they absolutely must comply with the Affordable Care Act starting January 1st, and there would be no exemptions, deferments, attempts to repeal it, or threaten to default on the US sovereign debt, they would accept that and move on. The uncertainty comes in when asstards spend 43 attempts to kill it, ignore the Supreme Court's decision, and want to rewrite entire provisions on an almost weekly basis. In that environment, a rational business decision is to get in a holding pattern until some stability can be found.

Congrats, Teatards. Your attempt to over-regulate is killing jobs.
 
2013-11-30 07:50:23 AM

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Congrats, Teatards. Your attempt to over-regulate is killing jobs.


Yep. But somehow it is still Obama's fault.
 
2013-11-30 07:56:42 AM
You wonder how many times Keynes has to get up out of the grave and make Say's Law his biatch before the Teatards realize that they are wrong or just admit, "yeah, hoarding money up at the top leads to a bottleneck that hurts everybody; but we hate the poor so that's the price we'll pay"

BTW, is the URL a technical snafu or the website trying to send the opposite message of the article:

http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-create-jobs-2013-11
 
2013-11-30 07:59:28 AM
I have been saying this for years.  The "trickle down" theory when put into practice basically uses the tax structure to increase supply and lower demand.  It's basic economics that more supply and less demand decreases value.  In a nation with a fiat currency this is dangerous since the economic production determines the value of the currency.

Watch how Washington State's economy will improve with their increased minimum wage.  I hear the opposition claim it will make prices go off and businesses leave the state.  Of course if I were a business owner I would be like the author of this article and instead of looking at the labor costs, I'd be looking at the large new group of consumers with a few dollars of expendable income.  Something they did not have before.
 
2013-11-30 08:00:11 AM

pueblonative: You wonder how many times Keynes has to get up out of the grave and make Say's Law his biatch before the Teatards realize that they are wrong or just admit...


It will never happen. These people have substituted Republicanism for Christianity. It's their religion now.
 
2013-11-30 08:02:48 AM
According to subby's phrasing, someone is going to have their head cut off.
 
2013-11-30 08:08:09 AM
The trickle down job creation myth is only strong because it was mainly repeated thousands of times as if it were undeniable fact by talk radio, then later Fox.
The real truth is that engineers are the ones who create jobs.  Trace most highly profitable products to their source and in many cases there was a team of engineers who were behind it despite the bosses who took all the credit and made all the money.
 
2013-11-30 08:09:08 AM

heavymetal: I have been saying this for years.  The "trickle down" theory when put into practice basically uses the tax structure to increase supply and lower demand.  It's basic economics that more supply and less demand decreases value.  In a nation with a fiat currency this is dangerous since the economic production determines the value of the currency.

Watch how Washington State's economy will improve with their increased minimum wage.  I hear the opposition claim it will make prices go off and businesses leave the state.  Of course if I were a business owner I would be like the author of this article and instead of looking at the labor costs, I'd be looking at the large new group of consumers with a few dollars of expendable income.  Something they did not have before.


It's also telling when we call the theory trickle down and the earliest version was called "horse and sparrow", if you feed the horses enough oats some will pass through to the sparrows. So you're either getting pissed on or eating shiat.
 
2013-11-30 08:11:09 AM

Doc Daneeka: The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.

The rich may employ people, but they don't "create jobs." The middle class creates jobs through creating demand, and jobs are created when companies are required to increase hiring to meet that demand.


That kind of thinking, while obvious to most of us, requires the ability to consider cause and effect through more than one level.  This is beyond the reach of tea partiers.
 
2013-11-30 08:12:28 AM

pueblonative: heavymetal: I have been saying this for years.  The "trickle down" theory when put into practice basically uses the tax structure to increase supply and lower demand.  It's basic economics that more supply and less demand decreases value.  In a nation with a fiat currency this is dangerous since the economic production determines the value of the currency.

Watch how Washington State's economy will improve with their increased minimum wage.  I hear the opposition claim it will make prices go off and businesses leave the state.  Of course if I were a business owner I would be like the author of this article and instead of looking at the labor costs, I'd be looking at the large new group of consumers with a few dollars of expendable income.  Something they did not have before.

It's also telling when we call the theory trickle down and the earliest version was called "horse and sparrow", if you feed the horses enough oats some will pass through to the sparrows. So you're either getting pissed on or eating shiat.


I will have to remember "Horse and Sparrow" for the next time I'm chatting with conservative friends about the economy.
 
2013-11-30 08:18:33 AM
The only real job creator is demand.
 
2013-11-30 08:22:19 AM

MmmmBacon: But here's the thing: The Rich don't have to spend more than other families, they simply choose to, because they have the means to do so. They could live with the means of a less affluent family, but choose not to do so, enjoying the higher income they have. That's all fine, by the way, I don't blame them for that at all. It is simple human nature.


This attitude toward the rich is sort of the problem. Reasonable people try to apply reasonable ideas to unreasonable people. Wealth inequality isn't about that guy making a couple hundred grand and is better off than your average family. It's about the small cadre of people that own 80% of everything and whom the entire planet is currently in debt to.

The rich will do anything to take money out of the pockets of people that have almost nothing so they can have more of what they don't need. These people are sociopaths and enough is never enough. They don't just have a little more than you, they have absolutely everything, and there is no end to how much they will take. They contrive incredibly complex systems that they work hard to legitimize that are nothing more than elaborate scams to suck every last dollar from the working class. They apply no sense of being reasonable when it comes to your well being nor do they have any forgiveness for your moments of human nature.

Outrage is what is called for, the public needs to be outraged or we'll be forever stuck with the ever worsening status quo.
 
2013-11-30 08:22:44 AM

rev. dave: The trickle down job creation myth is only strong because it was mainly repeated thousands of times as if it were undeniable fact by talk radio, then later Fox.
The real truth is that engineers are the ones who create jobs.  Trace most highly profitable products to their source and in many cases there was a team of engineers who were behind it despite the bosses who took all the credit and made all the money.


But again, no demand, because people can't afford to buy the product = failure.
 
2013-11-30 08:25:27 AM
crooksandliars.com
 
2013-11-30 08:28:33 AM
Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years.

"America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts."

What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY.

Incredible that people don't understand that.

Also, taxes on the "middle class" are the lowest they've been since we enacted an income tax. A reminder that we let 7/8ths of the bush tax cuts become permanent- all except the portion attributable to the rich.
 
2013-11-30 08:28:40 AM

Zeno-25: The only real job creator is demand.


www.learnamericanenglishonline.com
 
2013-11-30 08:29:58 AM

MayoSlather: MmmmBacon: But here's the thing: The Rich don't have to spend more than other families, they simply choose to, because they have the means to do so. They could live with the means of a less affluent family, but choose not to do so, enjoying the higher income they have. That's all fine, by the way, I don't blame them for that at all. It is simple human nature.

This attitude toward the rich is sort of the problem. Reasonable people try to apply reasonable ideas to unreasonable people. Wealth inequality isn't about that guy making a couple hundred grand and is better off than your average family. It's about the small cadre of people that own 80% of everything and whom the entire planet is currently in debt to.

The rich will do anything to take money out of the pockets of people that have almost nothing so they can have more of what they don't need. These people are sociopaths and enough is never enough. They don't just have a little more than you, they have absolutely everything, and there is no end to how much they will take. They contrive incredibly complex systems that they work hard to legitimize that are nothing more than elaborate scams to suck every last dollar from the working class. They apply no sense of being reasonable when it comes to your well being nor do they have any forgiveness for your moments of human nature.

Outrage is what is called for, the public needs to be outraged or we'll be forever stuck with the ever worsening status quo.



The Koch Brothers are the most obvious example.  They are amongst the top 10 richest people in America.  Yet, they keep spending millions and millions of dollars to buy politicians to enact policies that will benefit them and hurt the poor.  I just don't get it.  Once you make your first billion, can't you just be content with that and go enjoy your life?  Or, even better - you could, you know, spend a big chunk of that money to actually help people who are less fortunate?

I guess giving the poor your money is counter-productive, because after all, the poor are basically pigeons or stray dogs, and if you feed them they'll just keep coming back for more - right Charles and David?

/douchebags.
 
2013-11-30 08:32:39 AM
Debeo Summa Credo: derpderpderp

Why the hell is it you insist on a different reality than a GUY WHO IS ACTUALLY RICH?

I mean, why must you constantly lie? Why can you not learn from reality?
 
2013-11-30 08:34:58 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years.

"America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts."

What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY.

Incredible that people don't understand that.

Also, taxes on the "middle class" are the lowest they've been since we enacted an income tax. A reminder that we let 7/8ths of the bush tax cuts become permanent- all except the portion attributable to the rich.



Yes, here's another reminder - overall tax rates and effective tax rates on the ultra-wealthy are very low.  Remember how Romney made tens of millions of dollars in a year, but paid an effective tax rate of 14%?

So thanks for trying to shift the focus to how well the tax code treats the middle class, it totally made me forget about the criminally low tax rates that the ultra-wealthy investor classes enjoy.  Maybe now I'll vote for a party who screams bloody murder about the deficit, yet absolutely refuses to take any steps to make the ultra-wealthy pay their fair share.  The GOP would literally rather see children starve (by cutting SNAP and food stamps, which they have repeatedly done) than raise taxes on the ultra-wealthy.  How christian of them.
 
2013-11-30 08:36:14 AM

PreMortem: Or should I pick up a hatchet, axe, or saw...


Those are fine ways to earn a living, but you won't get paid much for it these days, because profits.
 
2013-11-30 08:36:38 AM

Chummer45: The Koch Brothers are the most obvious example.  They are amongst the top 10 richest people in America.  Yet, they keep spending millions and millions of dollars to buy politicians to enact policies that will benefit them and hurt the poor.  I just don't get it.  Once you make your first billion, can't you just be content with that and go enjoy your life?  Or, even better - you could, you know, spend a big chunk of that money to actually help people who are less fortunate?

I guess giving the poor your money is counter-productive, because after all, the poor are basically pigeons or stray dogs, and if you feed them they'll just keep coming back for more - right Charles and David?

/douchebags.


They inherited their business and wealth from their dad, one of the original Birchers, so they have no claim to being self made men, either.
 
2013-11-30 08:37:05 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years.

"America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts."

What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY.

Incredible that people don't understand that.

Also, taxes on the "middle class" are the lowest they've been since we enacted an income tax. A reminder that we let 7/8ths of the bush tax cuts become permanent- all except the portion attributable to the rich.


The problem with your view is this money you talk about is a percentage of it doesn't make it down to the worker in increased wages and benefits.  This is a fact based by actual numbers.
static3.businessinsider.com

That money you talk about just goes back into the "supply" side of things; thus it doesn't "fund the economy".
 
2013-11-30 08:41:31 AM
RINO SAYS WHAT?!!!!

BSABSVD
 
2013-11-30 08:44:26 AM

Doc Daneeka: The idea that companies will hire more people just because they have more money laying around from tax cuts was always idiotic.

The rich may employ people, but they don't "create jobs." The middle class creates jobs through creating demand, and jobs are created when companies are required to increase hiring to meet that demand.


And that right there is the part that is willfully overlooked by so many and willfully gobbled up by media consumers as gospel. While not as pervasive recently, there was a point where every other phrase out of people was "job creators" like it was some angelic aspiration. In reality, these so called job creators more often are people who can foresee market need and capitalize on that (and there is nothing wrong with that.) The problem lies in that these capitalists have been elevated to the level of some sort of all giving saints who are helping the masses when in fact they will do everything they can to milk the masses.

Thank people like Frank Lunz for these lies, but also thank the so-called-investigative-media for furthering the lie every time they babble on with the same rhetoric.

(pops)
i.imgur.com
 
2013-11-30 08:46:14 AM
Duh, this has been known since like the friggin '20s.
 
2013-11-30 08:46:42 AM
Great article. People are starting to wake up.
 
2013-11-30 08:47:51 AM
The Dow has been over 16,000 this week, meaning that a lot of rich people have been getting much richer since 2008. Meanwhile, job growth is more-or-less stagnant, and has been for some time. Frankly I'm surprised that these two facts alone haven't torpedoed trickle-down as a talking point.

/ Actually, no I'm not
 
2013-11-30 08:56:45 AM
i232.photobucket.com
 
2013-11-30 08:57:13 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years...

...What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY...


You've in no way addressed the point of TFA or described how it perpetuates a myth. Instead, you just want to pass the buck. "It's okay for job creators to not make jobs and stick their money in the bank, because that way job creators can make jobs by getting a loan."
 
2013-11-30 08:57:29 AM
Murder the rich and those that inherit their thievery until their stain on society is removed.
 
2013-11-30 09:05:09 AM

optimistic_cynic: PreMortem: Or should I pick up a hatchet, axe, or saw...

Those are fine ways to earn a living, but you won't get paid much for it these days, because profits.


A noble law needs to be passed to end the oak oppression.
 
2013-11-30 09:09:45 AM

heavymetal: Debeo Summa Credo: Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years.

"America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts."

What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY.

Incredible that people don't understand that.

Also, taxes on the "middle class" are the lowest they've been since we enacted an income tax. A reminder that we let 7/8ths of the bush tax cuts become permanent- all except the portion attributable to the rich.

The problem with your view is this money you talk about is a percentage of it doesn't make it down to the worker in increased wages and benefits.  This is a fact based by actual numbers.


That money you talk about just goes back into the "supply" side of things; thus it doesn't "fund the economy".


Of course it does. Investments in companies or loans to companies or municipalities or individuals (where all these "investment accounts" go) allow them to buy things. Widget machines, lumber for housing, bridges, etc. it all funds the economy by funding the purchases of stuff.

TFA says the guy buys 3 cars but says 3,000 cars would have been bought if his $9m were actually shared with 3,000 people. Of course, it ignores the fact that his remaining money is invested now, in ways that is probably more effective for the economy than consumption of 2,997 more cars.

It's a simplistic article that ignores half of the equation in an effort to appeal to idiots.
 
2013-11-30 09:11:06 AM

PreMortem: So vote communist?

Or should I pick up a hatchet, axe, or saw...


Do you want to be a lumberjack? You'll have to sleep all night and work all day.
 
2013-11-30 09:11:32 AM

maniacbastard: Murder the rich and those that inherit their thievery until their stain on society is removed.


Ladies and gentlemen: the most honest liberal on fark.

/better to admit that you just want to kill the rich so you can have their stuff than try to justify or rationalize it with nonsensical bullshiat like TFA.
 
2013-11-30 09:13:59 AM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: "Police are baffled, saying that Blodget's death was caused by severe head wounds inflicted using at least ten *different* Faberge eggs."


*snort*
Now I'm imagining a cabal of wealthy watchdogs who deal with internal threats by killing them with expensive objets de vertu.
 
2013-11-30 09:16:32 AM

Debeo Summa Credo: Terrible terrible article that perpetuates many of the myths that lefties have been fooled by in recent years.

"America's richest entrepreneurs, investors, and companies now have so much money that they can't possibly spend it all. So instead of getting pumped back into the economy, thus creating revenue and wages, this cash just remains in investment accounts."

What do you think happens with money in "investment accounts"?!? Do you really believe it is cash just sitting in a vault? No, of course not, it is invested in securities or loans that FUND THE ECONOMY.

Incredible that people don't understand that.

Also, taxes on the "middle class" are the lowest they've been since we enacted an income tax. A reminder that we let 7/8ths of the bush tax cuts become permanent- all except the portion attributable to the rich.


And yet pushing money to the top hasn't improved the economy, it's just made the poor and middle class struggle harder to make ends meet. So what's wrong with your ideas?
 
2013-11-30 09:17:08 AM
Recently I was asked why I have a consistent, supposedly unjustifiable, hatred for Democrats.  This is why.  They claim they are helping yet no law they pass actually helps lessen the divide of wealth.   Take the ACA for example.  Whether you like it of hate it the one thing it does not do is make rich people (those with more than 10 mil in total assets.) pay. Take any law that they champion and look at who  pays the most: It will be those with less than 10 mill in total assets.  The stunning part is then people come and white knight this.   Democrats are worse than the GOP as they say they are for the poor but then stick them every time.  The GOP is at least more honest about their position.
 
2013-11-30 09:19:42 AM

2and4: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-07/raise-taxes-on-rich-to-re w ard-true-job-creators-nick-hanauer.html

'It's true that we do spend a lot more than the average family. Yet the one truly expensive line item in our budget is our airplane (which, by the way, was manufactured in France by Dassault Aviation SA), and those annual costs are mostly for fuel (from the Middle East). It's just crazy to believe that any of this is more beneficial to our economy than hiring more teachers or police officers or investing in our infrastructure.'

rookie


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bBx2Y5HhplI
Here's a link to Nick Hanauer's TED talk.  I encourage everyone to give it a listen.
 
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