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(KTAR Phoenix)   It's about time somebody asks the question: Are credit cards evil?   (ktar.com) divider line 80
    More: Obvious, credit cards evil, absolutes, credit cards  
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2247 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Nov 2013 at 8:31 AM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2013-11-29 08:33:43 AM
Nope.  It's just that some of the people using them are really stupid.
 
2013-11-29 08:34:59 AM
No more than guns are

/runs to a safe distance and grabs popcorn
 
2013-11-29 08:35:30 AM
I didn't have any until a couple of years ago.  I was trying to get a home loan (always paid cash for everything) and had to get a couple so I would have the "right kind" or credit.  I guess owning my own home and paying my car payment wasn't good enough.  They are great for buying gas and then paying them off at the end of the month.
 
2013-11-29 08:35:55 AM
Pay mine off every month.
I get cash back at the end of the year.
Self Discipline.

Learn it, know it, Love it.
 
2013-11-29 08:36:54 AM
I love my credit card. Use sparingly, pay promptly.
 
2013-11-29 08:37:16 AM
No, they are exceptionally convenient (if you manage them correctly), never carry a balance, don't pay annual fees and maybe even get one that gives you a few bucks back.
//Try to book a flight without one...
 
2013-11-29 08:37:23 AM
"Not at all, friend of mine had one and now he's much better".
 
2013-11-29 08:37:31 AM
Credit cards are more secure than debit cards. At least if there is a dispute they are waiting to get money from you instead of you waiting to get your money back.
 
2013-11-29 08:38:10 AM
Yes and No.
 
2013-11-29 08:39:56 AM
What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?
 
2013-11-29 08:40:49 AM
No, just incredibly stupid.
 
2013-11-29 08:41:00 AM
It's a tool, and a pretty convenient one at that. While I can understand some people become tempted to spend too much, it doesn't magically plunge you into debt.
 
2013-11-29 08:42:13 AM

ChipNASA: Pay mine off every month.
I get cash back at the end of the year.
Self Discipline.

Learn it, know it, Love it.


What if you live in a culture that does not value self-discipline? Would credit cards be evil to them?
 
2013-11-29 08:42:46 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


Who is going to fess up and admit to carrying a balance?
 
2013-11-29 08:43:09 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


Farkers are better than most people. Duh.
 
2013-11-29 08:45:24 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


It's very obvious that people who owe money won't likely post it on the Internet. And if you think posting users are even close to the majority of users of a website, you're wrong. Lurkers are abound. Though I've never understood lurking.
 
2013-11-29 08:46:52 AM
Debt isn't necessarily evil, but in the majority of cases it is insidious. It's the primary ingredient in taking from the poor and giving to the rich. It has a snowball effect as well when it comes to inflation. Don't worry that a populace can no longer afford to live after artificially raising prices to meet stock expectations, just give them more loans and let them pay you back twice as much in the future.
 
2013-11-29 08:47:14 AM
Great if you can keep them paid off. Nightmarish if you carry a balance
 
2013-11-29 08:49:25 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


Well when I worked for a sub-prime CC lender they would do things like get someone to pay off 10-15% of the balance, close the account, and open that person a brand new CC.

They then sell the old account to another company, for pennies on the dollar, that just so happens to be a subsidiary of the same corporation that owned the CC company. The original CC company could claim revenue from the sale of the account, a loss from that same account, and a new member because of the new account they just opened.

Meanwhile the collection company that purchased the debt would of course use aggressive collection practices and show a profit on collections. This allowed the parent company of both the CC and the collection company to show a profit and jack up it's stock price.

This kind of churning could allow one person to owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt they never should have been allowed to accumulate in the first place.
 
2013-11-29 08:50:03 AM
Not according to that Krugman guy, if you ask him massive piles of debt are awesome.
 
2013-11-29 08:50:16 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


That number always staggers me. I've had one since I got out of school in the early 90's and have never carried a balance. Of course, that's the way I was brought up. YMMV.
 
2013-11-29 08:50:33 AM

UsikFark: ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?

Farkers are better than most people. Duh.


My wife and I only use our anodized titanium, American Express Centurion Credit Card, because, frankly, we're better than you people.
I also don't own a TeeVee and I use a non-ironic rotary phone.
Pretty much King Sh*T of F*ck Island over here.
 
2013-11-29 08:52:32 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


There are a bunch of people running around with 50k or more in credit card debt. I know some of them. Their plan is to die young and live as high as possible before they do. They never actually make payments on the debt. At least it's a plan.
 
2013-11-29 08:52:36 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


foo monkey: ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?

Who is going to fess up and admit to carrying a balance?


I did when I was younger...I rode the easy credit train! In the end I was carrying bone crushing amounts of debt, it crept up slowly and was so easy to do. It wasn't until I cleared it all that I realized how much pressure that puts on your everyday life. Now if I can't buy it for cash, I don't need it.
 
2013-11-29 08:54:25 AM

flucto: Not according to that Krugman guy, if you ask him massive piles of debt are awesome.


His knowledge of economics (obvously) far exceeds mine. But I always wonder if simple common sense doesn't trump fancy economist thinking. Kicking the can down the road only works until it doesn't. Seems to me the further down the road you kick it, the deeper the shiatpile is that you have to climb out of.
 
2013-11-29 08:54:46 AM

Slaves2Darkness: ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?

Well when I worked for a sub-prime CC lender they would do things like get someone to pay off 10-15% of the balance, close the account, and open that person a brand new CC.

They then sell the old account to another company, for pennies on the dollar, that just so happens to be a subsidiary of the same corporation that owned the CC company. The original CC company could claim revenue from the sale of the account, a loss from that same account, and a new member because of the new account they just opened.

Meanwhile the collection company that purchased the debt would of course use aggressive collection practices and show a profit on collections. This allowed the parent company of both the CC and the collection company to show a profit and jack up it's stock price.

This kind of churning could allow one person to owe hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt they never should have been allowed to accumulate in the first place.



evil story bro
 
2013-11-29 08:55:39 AM
Credit Cards serve no purpose.

For the middle to upper middle class, those credit card benefits you receive are greatly offset by increases in prices that retailers are forced to use to setoff the credit card fees.

For the lower class who live paycheque to paycheque, and can't pay 100% of the principal every month, the interest payments are exorbitant.


Credit cards are only good for credit card companies, and while they may be 'necessary' to some poor people, they are a necessary evil, which results in a tradeoff between short term survival and long term poverty.
 
2013-11-29 09:00:07 AM

Nick Nostril: flucto: Not according to that Krugman guy, if you ask him massive piles of debt are awesome.

His knowledge of economics (obvously) far exceeds mine. But I always wonder if simple common sense doesn't trump fancy economist thinking. Kicking the can down the road only works until it doesn't. Seems to me the further down the road you kick it, the deeper the shiatpile is that you have to climb out of.


Common sense has no absolutely no diagnostic capability beyond interpersonal relationships and avoiding lions on the savannah. Appeals to common sense are the last refuge of someone who has lost an argument.
 
2013-11-29 09:01:33 AM

TofuTheAlmighty: Common sense has no absolutely no diagnostic capability beyond interpersonal relationships and avoiding lions on the savannah. Appeals to common sense are the last refuge of someone who has lost an argument.


No way. I constantly use common sense in everyday quantum mechanics.
 
2013-11-29 09:02:59 AM
Any institution that tries to get you to sign such a lop-sided agreement as a credit card contract is evil.
Any agreement that the terms of which can be changed by one party without notice to the other party, and for any or no reason should not qualify as a "contract" and should not be upheld in a court of law.
 
2013-11-29 09:03:01 AM
The only debt I carry is attached to various shell corporations so its easy to shed when it becomes inconvenient
 
2013-11-29 09:05:26 AM
most everything I buy gets put on a credit card which is then paid in full every month (unless there's a financial emergency, then it may take me a few months to pay off). I earn rewards with it (essentially a 1-3% discount on everything) so why not? I have another card that I never touch, except for emergencies.

if you find yourself always carrying a balance, you need to figure out where you can cut some spending from your budget.
 
2013-11-29 09:05:57 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


Mine aren't clear, but my total cc debt (between 3 cards) is .028% of my yearly income.  When i get my car paid off this month I'm paying them off.  I know a lot of people that get loans on their house, pay them off then rack them up again.  I'd rather do without unnecessary things than rack up huge bills.  They usually have debt twice that 15,000 amount.
 
2013-11-29 09:10:48 AM
Credit cards aren't evil.

Credit card companies are evil.
 
2013-11-29 09:12:51 AM
The problem isn't the credit cards.  The problem is that if you ever want to have credit for a house or car loan, you have to get one, even if you know you are not the kind of person who can handle that kind of responsibility.
 
2013-11-29 09:14:14 AM

ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?


The headline made the people carrying $30k in rotating debt break into cold sweats, so they're either watching porn to relax or trolling people on the Politics tab.
 
2013-11-29 09:15:17 AM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: The problem isn't the credit cards.  The problem is that if you ever want to have credit for a house or car loan, you have to get one, even if you know you are not the kind of person who can handle that kind of responsibility.


No, they are evil.

Ezekiel 18:13:
Lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.
 
2013-11-29 09:18:29 AM

foo monkey: Who is going to fess up and admit to carrying a balance?


I have in the past. Vet bills.  Only 1.5K though, because my parent's drilled into my head that you should never carry a balance, because it improves your credit score which will let you buy a house or car much easier in the long run.

I never even read the APR's on my one credit card when I got it. I think it was 10%  I had a late payment (simply forgot to send it in) with a $1000 or so balance, and got a letter informing me that the APR had gone up to something like 23-25%. I paid the entire balance off then. I've paid in full, on time ever since. I checked my APR recently, It's 0%, and they increased my credit limit by 10K.  They REALLY want me to use that magic money card.

When you don't even have to pay off the previous months interest every month, you will quickly dig yourself into a hole you can't get out of.  That's how credit cards make their money.
 
2013-11-29 09:22:18 AM

Publikwerks: Some Coke Drinking Guy: The problem isn't the credit cards.  The problem is that if you ever want to have credit for a house or car loan, you have to get one, even if you know you are not the kind of person who can handle that kind of responsibility.

No, they are evil.

Ezekiel 18:13:
Lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.


Do you know how many farked up laws are in that book?
 
2013-11-29 09:23:23 AM
But they come with a free frogurt...
 
2013-11-29 09:23:35 AM

Some Coke Drinking Guy: The problem isn't the credit cards.  The problem is that if you ever want to have credit for a house or car loan, you have to get one, even if you know you are not the kind of person who can handle that kind of responsibility.


That's pretty much where I am right now.

I have no business having one, but I'll be damned if I don't.
 
2013-11-29 09:26:15 AM

un4gvn666: I have no business having one, but I'll be damned if I don't.


Freeze it in a block of ice. Then you have plenty of time to rethink your purchases before you can chip it out of the ice to read the number.
 
2013-11-29 09:31:27 AM

Fluid: It's a tool, and a pretty convenient one at that. While I can understand some people become tempted to spend too much, it doesn't magically plunge you into debt.


What a strange thing to say. Spending more money than you have does put you in debt. There's nothing magical about it.
 
2013-11-29 09:32:56 AM
Haven't had a credit card for about six years. Our bank cancelled it because I never used it. Haven't missed it one bit.
 
2013-11-29 09:33:49 AM

foo monkey: ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?

Who is going to fess up and admit to carrying a balance?


I would.  Being out of work for 6 months will do that.
 
2013-11-29 09:36:25 AM

Galileo's Daughter: foo monkey: ReapTheChaos: What's amazing to me that Americans owe $865.5 billion in credit card debt, an average of $15,500 per household, yet every time this subject comes up everyone claims they pay their balance in full and on time every month.  Something just doesn't add up, I wonder if people on the internet would lie about something like this?

Who is going to fess up and admit to carrying a balance?

I would.  Being out of work for 6 months will do that.


I would too. I have (stupid student living and then a wedding). Getting out of debt means admitting the problem and letting your family and friends know what's going on so they're more understanding about you being a cheapskate. Fessing up is the best thing you can do. fark this keeping up with the Jones' shiat.
 
2013-11-29 09:39:35 AM
I'm not afraid to fess up. I got my first 2 credit cards in college (long time ago) as they sign you up right there on campus and give you a free gift to boot. They didn't care that I only had a crappy part-time job. Within hours I had new clothes and a new Super Nintendo. And so began a lifelong struggle as I had zero self-discipline.

For years and years I would struggle to get cards paid off, only to say "I must really be disciplined now, since I got those paid off, so I'll get a credit card NOW because I know I can handle it! " This went on until about 3 years ago. My husband and I had a TALK and now I don't have credit cards, and we have about another 6 grand to pay off before we are free of credit card debt. We do always pay more than the minimum and we apply gifts and bonuses to the balance but it took us a long time to get there. At the worst, we were probably over 20,000 in debt between credit cards and a car payment.

We are both college graduates with good jobs (now), we are pretty smart when it comes to a lot of things. But I simply cannot be trusted with a line of credit. I can always, always find a slew of convincing justifications to buy whatever I want right now. I am extremely talented at convincing myself "I neeeeeeed it!" I will always choose immediate gratification.

Since I haven't had a line of credit, and husband took over paying the bills (he can see everything I buy) we now have a great savings account, our credit cards will be paid off by the end of next year (longer for the car payment but we now pay more than the minimum on that) so we figure we will be debt-free within 2 years.

I had all the warnings in the world from sensible people who love me, and I ignored them all because I was selfish and greedy. Giving me a credit card is like letting an alcoholic loose in a liquor store. I will always convince myself that I deserve whatever I want. It's stupid, unfair, and crazy. Now I can't wait to be debt-free. I thank my husband for getting us on track. I am NOT one of those "obedient wives" but when it comes to money now, my husband calls all the shots and I am grateful. All of the education in the world will never stop me from wanting what I want right now. I need my husband there to put his foot down so I don't ruin us. He lets me do whatever I want - but on the money issue, I choose to defer to him because I am like an addict who can't be left alone with substances. Things have been so much better since he took over the finances.

Go ahead and judge all you want, I earned it.
 
2013-11-29 09:42:57 AM

H31N0US: Publikwerks: Some Coke Drinking Guy: The problem isn't the credit cards.  The problem is that if you ever want to have credit for a house or car loan, you have to get one, even if you know you are not the kind of person who can handle that kind of responsibility.

No, they are evil.

Ezekiel 18:13:
Lends at interest, and takes profit; shall he then live? He shall not live. He has done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon himself.

Do you know how many farked up laws are in that book?


I do admit, alot of the stuff in the bible is messed up. I will also admit they got alot of things spot on. Which do you think this is?
 
2013-11-29 09:47:28 AM
i pay everything i can with my costco amex and pay it off every month so there's no interest. every february, i get cash from them - actual cash - to the tune of between $200-$400.

other than that, they can all fark the hell off.

/once had a visa with a $3k balance, which i'd been paying off go from 6% to 14.9%. when i called to complain, they said that it wasn't my fault, it was because of the economy. i sucked it up, paid it off and haven't used one since.
//CSB
 
2013-11-29 09:49:26 AM
"Short answer, yes, with an if. Long answer, no, with a but..."

I disagree with the author's opinion that cards should not be used as a safety net in favor of cash on hand. Certainly people should have cash reserves, but let's examine temporary unemployment or under employment: Using a credit card for food, gas, medication or other daily necessities while reserving cash-on-hand to mortgage payments or other cash-only transactions can stretch one's resources until income improves. Paying off a credit card over time, including the high finance charges, would be preferable to running out of cash 3 months in to a 5 month loss of income.

I also could consider it responsible to finance a big-ticket expense with a credit card, despite having the cash to cover it. Maintaining the cash reserve may be worth paying a finance charge for a couple of months. Say someone has $10,000 cash and buys something for $4,000, and can budget $500/month to pay for it. That person may find it preferable to maintain the $10,000 balance and pay $500/month for 9 or 10 months versus having his fund dip to $6,000 and rebuilding the balance over 8 months.

But then there's the person we all know that, at 24 years old, was $20,000 in credit card debt and was on his second new car, worth $25,000 but he owed $34k on since he rolled his old payment into his new one.

Credit can be used extremely intelligently or stupidly. And I don't necessarily think carrying a balance for a finite period is an indicator of irresponsible use. It's the people who are chronically carrying a balance, paying their whole monthly expendible income to their CC and then charging a similar amount to the card. They're in a cycle where the card is now loaning them their own money at an absurd interest rate.
 
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